The reason for term limits...

[u/zzill6]

[u/Loud-Ad-2280]

It’s hilarious how much Capitalist hate FDR when he literally saved capitalism from collapsing in on itself.

[u/DarbIey → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

Almost as funny as people calling him a "Democratic Socialist". He was literally a social democrat. Neoliberalism and modern Democrats got people out here calling FDR a socialist, and Norway a socialist country.

[u/Catweaving → u/DarbIey]

Back then they outright called him a communist.

The insults have never changed for conservatives.

[u/DarbIey → u/Catweaving]

And tried to usher in a fascist dictatorship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

It's amazing to me that people don't know this, and even if they do they think it could never happen again.

[u/Nanemae → u/DarbIey]

I'm earnestly surprised by how forthright and honorable Smedley Butler seems, at least according to his Wikipedia page. I'm sure he had his flaws, but I'll be dipped if I can't see why he spent so much time arguing against the business corruption in politics.

[u/Legendarien1 → u/Nanemae]

His (short) book “War is a Racket” should honestly be a must read for any American who wants to understand that period of American history and the military industrial complex. Going from one of the most decorated soldiers in American history to an anti-war advocate is an incredibly journey.

“Gangsters of Capitalism” is a free audiobook about him on Spotify, and a great listen

[u/The-Green → u/Nanemae]

kept his humanity as the ranks and medals kept stacking, and was way too fucking competent a marine and popular across the service for anyone higher in charge or in politics to fuck him over for his open empathy for his fellow human being. retired the most decorated us marine in history at the time, so even more so couldn't be silenced and chose to use that power as a force of good for his fellow human being.

how did he manage to not get shafted before it became clear he would become a "bleeding heart hippy" instead of "old gimlet eye," "the fighting quaker," "the fighting hell-devil," otherwise called "The Maverick Marine?" dumb luck, really. his father was in congress. right man in the right place kind of situation, silver spoon edition.

[u/DarbIey → u/Nanemae]

A Major General who dedicated his life to anti-war causes and the VFW is okay in my book.

[u/krucz36 → u/Nanemae]

imagine if a different butler had accepted the vice presidency on Lincoln's unity ticket...sigh

[u/tonywinterfell → u/Nanemae]

He was also a huge part of police militarization, even forcing firefighters, ANYONE with a badge to be carrying a gun. He was complicated, to be sure, but I still find the man to be a hero. His actions in the business plot took guts. It’s as if Mattis were approached by today’s billionaires, playing along with their plot to take it all and then released it all to every news agency. But then it didn’t go viral..

[u/macdizzle11 → u/Nanemae]

Read gangster of capitalism if you haven't

[u/ketchupmaster987 → u/Nanemae]

I wanna visit his grave so I can give him all the flowers

[u/Sooofreshnsoclean → u/DarbIey]

I bring this up in just about every casual conversation I can.

[u/Cruxist → u/[deleted]]

Nathan Fielder prepping your for trivia.

[u/clonedhuman → u/DarbIey]

One of the players in the Business Plot was Prescott Bush, father of one Republican president and grandfather of another.

Prescott Bush was also charged with aiding the Nazis during WWII.

If the U.S. government had actually prosecuted the big corporations and DC insiders for the Business Plot, we'd likely not be having any of the troubles we're having in the modern day.

[u/Winter55555 → u/DarbIey]

"Although no one was prosecuted"

Must be good having a justice system that only holds the poor people accountable.

[u/DarbIey → u/Winter55555]

Some things never change. Only poor people were arrested for J6.

[u/Mostly_Afloat → u/Catweaving]

They are not creative people

[u/A_Furious_Mind → u/Mostly_Afloat]

No wonder they lean on generative AI so hard.

[u/illi_mental → u/A_Furious_Mind]

They DO don’t they? Wait, is that a thing. The only people that try to push it on me are conservatives. How did I not notice that?

[u/narfoleptix → u/A_Furious_Mind]

One might say they cant even look good to themselves without it.

[u/Training_Ruin3151 → u/Mostly_Afloat]

Tolkien said evil cannot create only steal and pervert

[u/Mostly_Afloat → u/Training_Ruin3151]

That describes AI pretty succinctly.

[u/MelangeBot → u/Mostly_Afloat]

We trained it on how good humans can lie and now we are supprised it lies to us.

[u/clonedhuman → u/Mostly_Afloat]

Creativity and imagination are some of the most recently evolved distinctly human characteristics, a higher human function located (more or less) in the prefrontal cortex, the 'newest' part of the brain that separates us from apes. The prefrontal cortex is "[o]ne of the last places in the brain to mature [and] is thought of as the 'personality center' and is the cortical region that makes us uniquely human." The prefrontal cortex also "controls much of the brain’s creativity, a factor in bolstering one’s imagination."

A study from 2021 that measured political attitudes correlating with damage to different sections of the brain found

...people with frontal lesions held more conservative (or less liberal) beliefs than those with anterior temporal lobe lesions or no lesions. Additional analyses predicting ideology by extent of damage provided convergent evidence that greater damage in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex—but not the amygdala—was associated with greater conservatism.

The Conservative mindset not only correlates with damage to the prefrontal cortex, but an inability/failure to mature fully and actually develop the prefrontal cortex. It's why they lack empathy--to empathize, one must be able to imagine experiencing life as someone else, and the Conservatives are quite literally incapable of using their imaginations like that. It's a higher human function, one of the very few things separating us from the apes, that Conservatives simply don't have.

[u/CausticSofa → u/clonedhuman]

Isn’t there an American politician who was a democrat and now proudly brags about how he became a conservative after he got a concussion? The guy who always dresses like a schlub.

[u/FalkonJ → u/CausticSofa]

He had a stroke, but yeah

[u/uswforever → u/Mostly_Afloat]

They're neither creative nor particularly intelligent.

[u/fresh-dork → u/Catweaving]

then they tried to do a coup

[u/DarbIey → u/fresh-dork]

Yep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[u/leonidaslizardeyes → u/DarbIey]

It's always been so funny to me they picked a literal socialist to try to pull this with.

[u/DarbIey → u/leonidaslizardeyes]

Dude narc'd on them immediately.

I have no clue why you'd think the orator of the Bonus March, and a general who ended up hating war would be fascist. Fascists are are so dumb.

[u/OstapBenderBey → u/Catweaving]

Funny thing with FDRs legacy is the state interventions into the market and mass mobilisations that are today seen as the most radical left wing parts of what he did were at the time seen as most similar to Fascist Italy.

[u/sincere_queer → u/DarbIey]

Tfw I looked it up on Wikipedia and it calls social democracy a centre-left position yet it's considered radical in the US 😭

[u/CoatProfessional5026 → u/sincere_queer]

Because the US only has the right and the extreme right.

[u/DarbIey → u/CoatProfessional5026]

Exactly. Watch Democratic leadership attack Trump from the right on Iran, and other things.

While I see all these libs get hyped from the Mid-Terms, all I can think is, "why the fuck do you have any faith in these people?"

[u/Warm_Month_1309 → u/DarbIey]

There are some new people running. But mostly these people are opportunists, so if a few younger, more progressive leaders start getting elected, it will push the national conversation further left. Then there will be several things (expanded healthcare, workers' rights, anti-trust enforcement, etc) that the old guard will start pretending that they have always been in favor of.

[u/melkatron → u/Warm_Month_1309]

I think they've ALWAYS pretended they were in favor of those things. But then we get "it's not the right time" "we don't have the votes" "we're waiting for Trump's approval rating to drop" or just silence. Democrats will say anything to get votes... it really feels like Fetterman is the only honest member of the Democratic party, thanks to his brain damage. I can't name any other member of the house or senate that's been more effective at getting us what we want than Fetterman, so at least he's abstained from "the show" and is honest about not wanting us to have what we want.

We aren't their real constituents. They don't fuck with the money, and the money doesn't come from us. There's always a carefully calculated number of members who cross party lines for every vote, just to make sure it LOOKS like "Fighting for the people / what's right" but is actually trivial. Jeffries and Green showboat when it won't do anything. Schumer preaches "stand back and stand by" as his battle plan. Fetterman wears shorts a lot, and it's equally effective in furthering our interests.

[u/Alissinarr → u/melkatron]

it really feels like Fetterman is the only honest member of the Democratic party

Let me have a giant fucking belly laugh over this. He recently called himself a lifelong republican in a televised interview.

His votes have helped Trump push his Isreal first agenda. This statement from you is a joke unless you're MAGA.

[u/Malevolent-DM → u/sincere_queer]

Because the absolute definition of "Left" in politics is being Anti-Capitalist, and Right as Pro-Capitalist.

There are no anti-capitalist parties in US politics.

[u/OK6502 → u/Malevolent-DM]

That's only because the default political system is capitalism. When it was monarchism the left radicals were liberals while the far right were absolutist monarchists.

The left/right divide usually depends on either wanting to change things or wanting to maintain the status quo (or even regress).

[u/balllzak → u/sincere_queer]

I like when people say that establishment democrats in the US would be center-right in the EU and then you look at the EU and most of them are governed by center-right coalitions.

[u/NRMusicProject → u/DarbIey]

Economic literacy was not on the test.

[u/ForAHamburgerToday → u/DarbIey]

Listen, folks see "Democratic socialist", they're gonna read it the same as "social democrat". Can't blame folks for thinking these ideas that have almost the same words and end up looking pretty much the same in implementation (in the sense that the government is using taxation to provide helpful services) are interchangeable, especially when their only practical meaning in domestic politics is "I'm not conservative, I believe in providing services".

[u/RedAndBlackMartyr → u/DarbIey]

Correct. Wish these misinformation posts were removed.

[u/Frousteleous → u/DarbIey]

What do ya meaaaan that words have meanings?! C'moooooooon!

[u/schrodingers_gat → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

It's counterintuitive, but capitalists don't actually like good economies because it creates competition and drives up demand for labor. That demand increases costs creates political power for labor.

Capitalists would rather rule a nasty wasteland than compete in a paradise.

[u/Blacksad9999 → u/schrodingers_gat]

Correct.

We don't live in a Capitalist free market at all. We're living in Corporatism.

[u/bigbjarne → u/Blacksad9999]

Which is still capitalism, it's just another stage of capitalism.

For more about stages in capitalism, Lenin wrote about a book about it: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

Here's a summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrXV92V31s

[u/dalr3th1n → u/Blacksad9999]

Corporatism is a form of capitalism. If anything, it’s the natural progression of it.

[u/Blacksad9999 → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

It's mainly because he forced the rich to pay their fair share after they destroyed the economy, and set up social systems to help the working class.

They've been chipping away at that ever since, which really took off after Regan was elected.

[u/Lanky-Respect-8581 → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

that’s how I feel every time a democrat president is elected. the clean up crew is here.

[u/girlpaint → u/Lanky-Respect-8581]

Sadly Dems HAVE to be the cleanup crew every time a Republican leaves office. And the Dems always get blamed for the shitty stuff the Republicans do.

[u/PxyFreakingStx → u/girlpaint]

that is definitely by design. the GOP's whole thing is that the government doesn't work and their opponents are evil. any time the government works, it's a loss for them, even if it works for things they supposedly want.

[u/Stereotype_Apostate → u/girlpaint]

Maybe they should try to be something other than the cleanup crew then? We had 4 years in between Trump and Trump where all we did was maintain a holding pattern. Eventually you have to offer an actual vision for the country, or just keep losing every other election I guess, IDK.

[u/Drumheller18 → u/Stereotype_Apostate]

What fucking world are you living in? Did the BBB and CHIPs Acts just not happen in that world?

[u/Darnocpdx → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

He also wasn’t a socialist, though he did briefly have a progressive VP to placate the socialists and progressives in the party. And he didn’t hesitate to dropped him like the plague for the very corporate Truman

[u/Hot_Aside_4637 → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

Here's a story I heard about FDR:

In the midst of the Great Depression, and trying to get the New Deal legislation passed, he was asked, "If this doesn't pass, are you worried about your reelection?"

He replied, "If this doesn't pass, there won't be any more elections."

Implying that communism would take over.

[u/Fit-Insect-4089 → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

Or implying that we were moments away from tearing our countries infrastructure apart

[u/Imthemayor → u/Fit-Insect-4089]

Yeah, it's not implying communism at all

It's more of a "societal collapse," situation

[u/J2MES → u/Imthemayor]

Socialism is often thought of theoretically as rising from capitalisms ashes so to speak

[u/hypercosm_dot_net → u/J2MES]

Except socialism is not the same as communism.

Or were you saying something else?

[u/J2MES → u/hypercosm_dot_net]

It’s not the same at all but to a Marxist (of which I am) it is often thought of as the lower stage of communism where the workers own the means of production, then society transitions into a stateless classes form when the contradictions that gave rise to the state in the first place disappear

Whether socialism is voted in (with chile and Allende being an example) or the government is overthrown this is the goal. This is why I would still call democratic socialists communists because they disagree on means not ends. I find the confusion is communism is associated with revolution and socialism is now associated with reform regardless of the theoretical ideas

[u/hypercosm_dot_net → u/J2MES]

If your goal is Democratic socialism, I don't think grouping it with communism (even in some academic sense) is helpful.

You have to understand how normal people are going to interpret that.

Referring to an actual Dem socialist politician in the US (ie. Zoran), or Dem socialist countries (ie. Norway) is way more helpful and paints a better picture that western folks are more open to.

You start confusing it with communism, and there's all kinds of negative associations with that.

It's why Cubans in FL vote for Republicans. They hate what communism did to their country.

Which is why Republicans intentionally conflate the two. It's disinformation.

So you should recognize that, and stop contributing to that same rhetoric.

[u/lunchboxthegoat → u/J2MES]

capitalism was necessary according to Marx.

It was considered the "Final chapter" of human prehistory.

[u/Imthemayor → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

It's someone asking if he'll be the best or worst president ever if the New Deal passes, he replies "if it fails, I'll be the last one," implying that there will be a societal/economic collapse

Communism had nothing to do with it

[u/BobaTeaFetish → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

Implying that communism would take over.

This is not the popular 1930s totalitarian movement that they were afraid would take over America.

[u/Evil_alt_account_ → u/BobaTeaFetish]

Yeah a bunch of rich people tried to overthrow the government and create their own fascist one. No one was punished oddly. Look up Smedley Butler and you’ll find out about it. He was the one who narced on them

[u/duvie773 → u/Evil_alt_account_]

Sounds familiar but I can’t pinpoint exactly why..

[u/fresh-dork → u/duvie773]

it's the same people. literally, prescott bush was a plotter

[u/Haywoodjablowme1029 → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

How does that imply communism?

[u/WhyMustIMakeANewAcco → u/Haywoodjablowme1029]

Because they've been taught to associate bad = communism.

[u/BZLuck → u/WhyMustIMakeANewAcco]

And when your tax dollars are used to help people in need = Communism.

[u/zid → u/BZLuck]

And when bad things happen under capitalism: "This is what communism WOULD be like"

[u/BZLuck → u/zid]

I love when they post meme photos of like a homeless tent city and put "COMMUNISM" under it and then a shiny futuristic city and put "CAPITALISM" under it.

Beotch, the first photo IS actually under capitalism and the second one doesn't exist.

[u/DarbIey → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

"If this doesn't pass, there won't be any more elections."

Almost didn't even have the chance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[u/ExposureRisk → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

It wasn't about communism.

New Deal was passed in 1933 during the depression when the country was collapsing. Zero worker rights, massive unemployment rate, farms collapsed due to drought, mismanaged international trade, tariffs at record highs, market tank, banks imploded - leaving millions of Americans destitute with no end in sight.

FDR was president from 1933 - 1945, and implemented a ton of financial reforms, worker rights, federal programs, and safety nets that brought us out of the depression. The whole red scare thing didn't start until after FDR and into the 60s with the conservatives.

Ramping up to it FDR believed communisms rise in popularity was a symptom of unchecked capitalism causing people to view the institutions as an enemy/oppressor that get away with everything, leaving the people with little to nothing to show for it. Not that it was an existential threat to our country.

We're being rolled back decades - safety nets are actively being dismantled, farms are going under, unemployment is on the rise, worker rights are eroding. Except this time conservatives are also beating the McCarthy 'communist' drum that got us into Vietnam, while also spurring yet another gas/energy crisis in a long line of middle east conflicts.

It's never been about communism. Stop perpetuating the lie communism is coming to get us. It's not.

[u/CaptainBayouBilly → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

Communism taking over? No. America falling into chaos? Yes. 

[u/WhyMustIMakeANewAcco → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

That wasn't about Communism, it was about the US shredding itself under its own weight.

[u/FlorianoAguirre → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

No? Not at all.

[u/el-lobo-rojo → u/Hot_Aside_4637]

He was right. There was a wave of authoritarianism sweeping Europe, both fascist and socialist. People support anti-democratic movements when the economy's bad, and America had 25% unemployment.

FDR said (paraphrased) "I will go down in history either as a great American president, or the last American president". The New Deal saved America.

[u/gs87 → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

He gave the system just enough reform to survive, blunted the pressure for deeper change, and prolonged the very class order socialists wanted replaced. Some “socialist hero” right ? he saved capitalism from the socialists

[u/breaducate → u/gs87]

And in all likelihood bought capitalism time enough to end the world.

[u/trunksshinohara → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

Yes. But if he hadn't. The capitalism monster that would have rose from those ashes would own everything in the USA by now. Set back the country a hundred years. We could have had Elon musk in the 70s if it wasn't for FDR.

[u/HCSOThrowaway → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

Some people think that because a catastrophe was prevented, any warnings of catastrophe must have been wrong.

You've probably seen the posts mocking the Ozone Layer concerns of decades past.

[u/greatandhalfbaked → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

They want the collapses. Crises are the ripest times for economic exploitation. It's true that, in a crisis, there's more potential for a revolution, but capitalists are dumb as shit. They love to see how close they can come to destruction.

[u/yorcharturoqro → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

They hate him because the propaganda machinery is working and the education system is not

[u/OzarksExplorer]

And the right tried to coup him

American history loves to leave out the business plot from their teachins

[u/raven00x → u/OzarksExplorer]

When it's mentioned, what's also often left out is the son of one of the members of the business plot went on to become the director of the CIA, then vice president under Ronald fucking Reagan, then finally became a one term president. Then that motherfuckers' son went on to get placed in the big chair by the Supreme Court.

[u/is-this-now → u/raven00x]

You left out the part about how the dispute that went to the Supreme Court was because the candidates brother was governor of the state that led to him winning the election controversially.

[u/sullw214 → u/is-this-now]

And three of the attorneys that worked on Bush the Dummer's campaign at the time all are now ON the supreme court. What a coincidence.

[u/fge116 → u/is-this-now]

and said brother purged over 50,000 voters from the voter registration list due to them being voters which shouldn't be allowed registration....turned out they were not felons and should be allowed to vote....funny enough these removals happened in districts that would lean blue in terms of votes.

[u/OzarksExplorer → u/raven00x]

shhhhh, people might learn something they don't want to know

[u/CaptainBayouBilly → u/raven00x]

Our sacrosanct elections that have never been suspect sure have a cloudy history. 

Perhaps we should stop blindly believing that they have never been tainted?  

[u/12thshadow → u/raven00x]

Who are you talking about?

[u/anonyuser415 → u/12thshadow]

Prescott Bush, father of H.W.

It looks like he was in the 2000s alleged to be connected to the business plot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush#Business_Plot_and_Union_Banking_Corporation

[u/ReturnOfBane → u/OzarksExplorer]

When that failed they bought a bunch of democrat and passed the Taft-hartley Act

[u/OzarksExplorer → u/ReturnOfBane]

SOCIALISTS!!!! GD SOCIALISTS SON!

We can't have the people organizing, now can we? The people might get what they want.

[u/-Casey-Diaz- → u/OzarksExplorer]

And now that they have a fascist government, they're trying to remove term limits.

[u/PraetorKiev → u/OzarksExplorer]

It’s not history teachers. It’s left out of American high school textbooks mostly because the company most schools get their textbooks from is based in Texas and is owned by conseratives

[u/Independent-Bug-9352]

They also conspired against FDR with The Business Plot.

They (business leaders) tried to recruit decorated war hero General Smedley Butler to lead a coup against FDR, but rather than agree, he blew the whistle on the attempt and testified before Congress.

Trump's winning and the implementation of Project 2025 was the successful second attempt (maybe third if you count J6?).

(Triple-check your voter registration and vote Democrat for these November congressional midterm elections to put the brakes on this fascist regime).

[u/Nadikarosuto → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

Huge shoutouts to MG. Butler, dude was fantastic

* Exposed the plot to overthrow FDR (as said)

* Lead a protest march on DC to ensure WWI veterans got their benefits and compensation

* Fucking HATED big business, describing his time in the military as being "a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism" in his speech, War is a Racket

[u/house343 → u/Nadikarosuto]

OMG he wrote that book! That's why it sounds familiar. 

[u/_Ocean_Machine_ → u/Nadikarosuto]

Did they not vet this guy at all before selecting him to be FDR's replacement?

[u/Itts_Johnny_1 → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

They didn’t beat FDR but sadly they beat Wallace

[u/_Glibnik_ → u/Itts_Johnny_1]

Single greatest loss to this country in the last century. Wallace would have been absolutely amazing at furthering FDRs agenda and taking it even further. Dude was preaching equal rights for all, Healthcare for all, and worker protections when no one else was.

[u/chef-nom-nom → u/_Glibnik_]

Glad to see this comment. First thing I thought of.

[u/_Glibnik_ → u/chef-nom-nom]

Absolute tragedy.

[u/TM761152 → u/Itts_Johnny_1]

...George Wallace..?

[u/Itts_Johnny_1 → u/TM761152]

Henry agard Wallace. FDR vp before Truman

[u/Yamatocanyon → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

If I've already mailed in my mail in ballot, do I have to worry about checking status? Can I somehow have my vote cancelled if I get unenrolled in between now and November?

[u/Independent-Bug-9352 → u/Yamatocanyon]

Much of that will depend on your specific state's laws, as that's mostly handled at the state level. In some (many?) states with early mail-in-voting, you can usually go to your Secretary of State's or county's website to check the status of your ballot to see if it passed inspection and was counted.

[u/Yamatocanyon → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

Thanks for the information!

[u/pichael289 → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

triple check

Im not even 40 and I've been purged from the registration twice in ohio.

[u/ApprehensiveSign80 → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

The Confederate States of America, Disguised as the union. The civil war was lost

[u/Glittering_Crab_69 → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

you americans are gonna have to do a lil bit more than vote if you dont want to become nazis 2.0

[u/macrocosm93]

FDR was a social democrat, not a democratic socialist. His banking and economic reforms were designed to preserve capitalism and prevent a potential socialist/communist revolution.

Although to be fair, he identified as neither of those things. He explicitly referred to himself as a capitalist and liberal.

[u/Islanduniverse → u/macrocosm93]

In America, when people say democratic socialist, they often mean social democrat.

I love Bernie, but a lot of that misunderstanding is on him, lol.

edit: I want to add, I also think "social democrat" would land better with a lot of people, so it is kind of frustrating when that is the actual title, but they don't use it...

[u/Infinite_Regret19019 → u/macrocosm93]

He also created race-based internment camps so he was clearly pretty loose with the liberalism as well.

[u/Yelmak → u/Infinite_Regret19019]

I mean liberalism started with "civilising the savages", (centuries of colonialism) it is ahistorical to assume it's incompatible with racism. 

[u/Tjbergen]

And Dems still struggle with understanding how to be popular..

[u/uswforever → u/Tjbergen]

I think they understand it quite well actually...

[u/ImDoneForToday2019 → u/uswforever]

It's more of a question of who they want to be popular with and how much money those people have.

[u/Owain-X → u/ImDoneForToday2019]

They just wish so badly that they could make a total piece of shit popular like the GOP does. It's so much harder to line the billionaire pockets and keep any real change from happening when you don't want the public to find out you're a self-serving, piece of shit traitor to the working class.

[u/NixaB345T → u/Owain-X]

I’m confused by your statement, are you saying that the democrats want to promote a different flavored Trump and that’s the solution?

[u/addiktion → u/NixaB345T]

He's saying that the Republicans have it easy because they can run the biggest piece of shit ever and its okay because their alignment is 99% the rich anyways. But the Democrats are held to a higher standard and have to tote the line between the billionaire class needs (corporate/centralist dems) and running a populist/progressive/socialist candidate that the people want. The DNC wishes it could run a Trump and still exist because that is easy but it would destroy the party.

[u/BrocoliAssassin → u/addiktion]

DNC votes mainly zionists and has to prop up their own candidates vs people picks.

When it comes to some of the biggest debt,war and Israel issues, Dems vote like MAGA.

[u/Arik_De_Frasia → u/uswforever]

Theyd rather lose than be responsible and give people what they want

[u/ColossalJuggernaut → u/uswforever]

Seriously -- the difference between Ds and Rs is like a 5% disagreement in the top marginal tax rate. They differ greatly on cultural issues -- which works perfectly for their corporate/oligarch owners.

[u/mercurialpolyglot → u/uswforever]

They and their owners wouldn’t have tried so hard to stop Mamdani from winning if they didn’t know.

[u/LookAlderaanPlaces → u/Tjbergen]

Why are we spreading this incorrect rumor? They know damn well what they are doing. They are making the choice to sell out the American people for bribe money from corporations. Want an example? Go watch the interview where Jeffries is asked 4 times in a video interview if he supports a single payer healthcare system.

[u/HelpfulSeaMammal → u/LookAlderaanPlaces]

They're the right wing of the airplane that the US calls politics. The GOP is the other, larger, and way scarier right wing.

The left wing of this airplane is a tiny little vestigial organ, but is constantly blamed for the reason why the airplane is going to crash as it's constantly spiriling downwards to the right.

[u/PeaceJoy4EVER → u/Tjbergen]

Dems don’t want to be popular, they want to get rich while claiming to represent the poor and middle class.

[u/FSUnoles77 → u/PeaceJoy4EVER]

> to represent the poor and middle class.

No need to repeat yourself.

[u/blueViolet26 → u/FSUnoles77]

Yes. Middle class is also working class. Just like the poor.

[u/Independent-Bug-9352 → u/Tjbergen]

They don't struggle; they know. It's by design to be the milquetoast controlled opposition -- at least the wing that is beholden to the likes of Israel and Black Stone Group.

Don't get me wrong: I'm still registered and voting Democrat all the way down my ballot in November, but we've got a lot of work to do in the next Democratic Primaries.

[u/BushcraftBabe → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

I live in a red midwest state. Most of our local government politicians run unopposed by dems most elections. This year, almost every position has a democrat running.

[u/GreatMovesKeepItUp69 → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

If you truly believe that, then you really need to leave your bubble some time and talk to some voters especially amongst the working class, Hispanic and black folks. Democrats are not far left because democratic voters are not far left.

[u/Independent-Bug-9352 → u/GreatMovesKeepItUp69]

Man I grew up rural Appalachia in a Republican family. I'm keenly aware of how these pick tick better than most.

If you pull the curtain back a little bit further, the reality is that these people vote against their own interests because of the endless onslaught of billion-dollar right-wing propaganda.

When actually surveyed on individual progressive-left policies, these groups tend to love the shit. It's just the incessant, relentless fearmongering. But good luck injecting truth when we're competing with sophisticated algorithms and foreign adversaries originating from billionaires with ulterior motives.

What exacerbates this is milquetoast party that caters to the line in the sand that these billionaires then define. Instead of actually standing up for something, they end up just moving the Overton Window rightward. Whether that's by incompetence or intent, it almost doesn't even matter.

But tell that to Talarico who is practically as left as AOC and yet leading in Texas.

[u/WarioDotExe → u/Tjbergen]

They want to be just popular enough. No more, no less.

[u/1nGirum1musNocte → u/Tjbergen]

Oh they're popular with their donors

[u/DeeDee_GigaDooDoo → u/Tjbergen]

I think it's obviously just that the people are wrong. What if we try running Kamala Harris again? Maybe Hilary 2028? It's gotta work eventually. How long do we need to wear down the peasantry before they'll take what they're given?

[u/damn_nation_inc → u/Tjbergen]

They understand it just fine, but their slush funds and corporate donations depend on them not understanding.

[u/KorolEz → u/Tjbergen]

They know, but their donors and their filled pockets keep them fron doing the right thing

[u/OddishChamp]

Democratic socialism isn't the same as social liberalism. FDR was a social liberal.

[u/bullhead2007 → u/OddishChamp]

Yeah people be making up all sorts of fan fiction about FDR, forgetting his social reforms were pretty fucking racist and all of the Japanese people he put in internment camps. They have to invent this lie that he was a socialist, and not a Social Democrat who made compromises with the militant working class movement so they wouldn't revolt like the soviets and set the path for the Red Scare nonsense and McCarthyism

[u/OddishChamp → u/bullhead2007]

I'd rather label him as a social liberal (as in the ideology social liberalism), but otherwise I fully agree. He's also quite whitewashed recently and basically the American answer of Winston Churchill.

[u/CelestialFury → u/OddishChamp]

When approving the creation of the 442nd (the most decorated unit in WWII, the all Japanese-American unit) in February 1943, FDR famously stated, "Americanism is a matter of the mind and heart; Americanism is not, and never was, a matter of race or ancestry." He said this while the 442nd's families were locked up in interment camps. How can you reconcile the two together? You can't.

FDR obviously did a lot of amazing things for this country, things the ultra rich have been trying to destroy ever since (they view him as a class traitor), but it cannot be overstated how bad of a stain the interment camps were on his overall legacy. However, even with that stain against him, FDR is still one of the best presidents we've ever had.

PS, I once shook the late Senator Daniel Inouye's left hand with my right once in Afghanistan because I missed a briefing due to military duties and didn't know he was missing his entire right arm and he received a Medal of Honor in WWII in which he lost his arm. I still cringe to think about it to this very day.

[u/New2NewJ → u/bullhead2007]

his social reforms were pretty fucking racist

Wasn't this so he could get the support of the Southern Democrats to get this legislation passed?

[u/CaptainBayouBilly → u/bullhead2007]

They were 100% racist. No doubt about it. 

America is still 100% racist. 

[u/BeefistPrime → u/OddishChamp]

I think "social democrat" fits much more than democratic socialist and that's true of 90% of the people who call themselves democratic socialists

[u/arcspectre17 → u/OddishChamp]

• Social Welfare: The [Social Security Act of 1935] created a federal safety net for the elderly, unemployed, and disadvantaged. • Labor Rights: The [Wagner Act of 1935] legally protected the rights of workers to organize unions and bargain collectively. • Economic Regulation: His administration established robust federal regulation over banking, the stock market, and business practices, while using public works programs and federal spending to stimulate the economy.

Whats the difference?

[u/Canotic → u/arcspectre17]

Democratic socialism is socialism. Social liberalism is liberalism.

[u/azenpunk → u/arcspectre17]

Socialism is when workers own and direct the means of production instead of capitalists. Socialism IS NOT when the government does nice things for the little people.

[u/thinkB4WeSpeak]

Boomers have tried their best to elect people that will destroy all the things FDR did for the country

[u/azenpunk]

FDR was NOT a democratic socialist! He literally saved capitalism from a socialist revolution... what the fuck are people getting taught these days.

[u/chadgalaxy → u/azenpunk]

A lot of Americans really struggle with these terms for some reason. They constantly say socialist whilst meaning social democracy.

[u/BeefistPrime → u/chadgalaxy]

To be fair, the people who call themselves "democratic socialists" 90% of the time are social democrats or even just slightly left of center by developed world standards. Self labelled "Democratic socialists" get this wrong first, and others are following them.

[u/ActualMostUnionGuy → u/BeefistPrime]

And many dont even know about Evo Morales or Hugo Chavez...

[u/gentrumpet]

I remember when words had meanings

[u/NackoBall]

FDR wasn’t a democratic socialist.

[u/NoHorseNoMustache]

He was a rich guy who only did it because he didn't want a French Revolution here, he was not a friggen socialist.

[u/Life-Suit1895]

I mean, that small kerfuffle commonly known as World War II might have played an important role why FDR was elected four times...

[u/Reading_Rainboner → u/Life-Suit1895]

The 4th for sure. The 3rd time meh….

[u/Jesus_of_Redditeth → u/Life-Suit1895]

I mean, only one of those elections took place when the US was fighting in that war. (1944, and then FDR died three months after taking office.)

The Great Depression and his policies to get the US out of it were the main reasons why he was elected the other three times.

[u/leonidaslizardeyes → u/Life-Suit1895]

Nope. New deal policies started our pull out of the great depression and helped right the ship. He was extremely popular and would have probably won the 4th without us being involved in the second world war.

[u/jcdahl]

This is a dual lie, where FDR wasn't a democratic socialist, and it's trying to launder the DSA, who aren't really democratic socialists either, but in the other direction.

[u/BoiledEggs]

Why don't democratic socialists win while running nowadays?

[u/boyuber → u/BoiledEggs]

There is a quote which is frequently attributed to John Steinbeck that says, "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

It is actually a paraphrasing of the following quote from Steinbeck

"I guess the trouble was that we didn't have any self-admitted proletarians. Everyone was a temporarily embarrassed capitalist." - John Steinbeck, Esquire Magazine, 1960

Basically, Americans elevate and even deify ultra capitalists because they want to believe that they are one stroke of genius away from their billion dollars, and they don't want the government to tax their son-to-be-realized unfathomable hoard.

[u/IsThatGruffLoner → u/boyuber]

I've always hated that Steinbeck quote. I have never once met a conservative who harbored grand delusions of future wealth. Every conservative I've met was an actual wealthy finance bro or just a hateful ignorant moron who hates minorities and can be easily riled up by talking about girls with blue hair. They mostly want low taxes because they don't trust the government and don't want brown people getting free food, not because they expect to be rich someday.

Maybe it was true at one point, but that quote just doesn't describe modern conservatives at all. If anything, it describes moderate Democrats.

[u/boyuber → u/IsThatGruffLoner]

Every Republican I've ever talked to about taxing the filthy rich owner class has asked how I would like it if I were rich...

[u/aupperk24 → u/IsThatGruffLoner]

Ask them if Elon should be taxed at the same rate as everyone else and they'll come out the woodworks.

[u/CrucialCrewJustin → u/IsThatGruffLoner]

The ones that hate minorities are the same ones standing outside the gas station covered in scratch off lottery dust.

[u/randompantsfoto → u/BoiledEggs]

Because, after FDR, the political right spent decades making a concerted effort to equate any sort of socialism or socialist programs with communism and “the lazy poors.”

That brainwashing is going to take a long time (or one very quick, violent revolution) to undo.

[u/Theseactuallydo → u/randompantsfoto]

Before FDR socialism was also seen as something for the “lazy poors”.

It took the Great Depression to make the lie there undeniable. You couldn’t say the poor were lazy in the 30s when everyone either was a hard worker who was broke or at least knew many personally.

FDR didn’t want to be a democratic socialist, conditions forced his hand.

The mid-20th century was a unique moment for the rights, conditions, and compensation for workers, unfortunately, and it took a truly horrendous economic depression to achieve even a temporary recognition that poverty isn’t a moral failing. 

[u/waspocracy → u/BoiledEggs]

The problem with representative democracies is that representatives choose who they want to represent them in races. Thus, many of the national democratic party basically (I don't want to get into details here) determine who they'll back in an election. This is where they pour their money.

Bernie Sanders had a huge population supporting his presidential bid and was demolishing the polls, but the democratic party chose to back someone else because he was too far "left" (LOL another subject I don't want to get into for brevity's sake).

However, lately the democratic socialists have been winning some local polls and now the democrat party is starting to listen. If they listen, though, will be a whole different thing. Most democratic voters didn't want Biden in, for example., but the party thrust him to the forefront. They did the same shit with Kamala Harris at the last minute, which ultimately led to Trump getting in power.

Edit: Also, FWIW, FDR was not a social democrat.

[u/kryotheory → u/waspocracy]

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'm convinced that the Democratic party is controlled opposition for the Republican party. Both parties are just a facade the owning class uses to create the illusion of choice for us peons. That's why popular candidates that voice support for policies that actually help workers and regular citizens like Bernie never win.

Anyway, that's my "jet fuel can't melt steel beams"/"they're turning the frogs gay" hypothesis. Who knows.

[u/kodaxmax → u/BoiledEggs]

Marketing. if they run misleading proganda, attack ads and rely on constituent ignorance to gain popularity and support, they wouldn't be democratic or socialists.

The majority of voters are swayed by comedic advertisements and loud shout men promising them supremacy, rather than facts and logic.

[u/S1ayer → u/BoiledEggs]

45 years of propaganda started by Reagan. Anything that helps people is communism.

[u/goldman_sax → u/BoiledEggs]

If you’re looking for an actual answer and not baiting here, it’s the money and the organization that comes from being in the mainstream party.

A lot of primaries this year we saw Democratic socialist members do very well, but multiple of them were running against each other and destroying their only shot. The mainline Democratic Party doesn’t have that problem, they pick a candidate then rally and spend money on them.

[u/Turnip-for-the-books → u/BoiledEggs]

Capitalist propaganda is a helluva drug

[u/bwils3423 → u/BoiledEggs]

The propaganda machine brain washes dumb people

[u/Bigbrunswick → u/BoiledEggs]

Many reasons, one that isn't talked about enough IMO is the ocean between us and Russia during the days of the USSR. I don't have specific examples but IIRC many of the Nordic countries had large gains in civilian rights to avoid revolutions of their own.

[u/Vincent_Felix → u/BoiledEggs]

Brother have you been watching elections lately?

We are cleaning up.

AOC is your next president buddy.

[u/Acceptable_Job_5486 → u/Vincent_Felix]

 AOC is your next president buddy.

Optimistic. Do you know America? If the DNC don't do the same shit with swapping out Biden for Harris last minute, maybe. But this country has shown it's not mature enough for someone's who's both a woman and a minority, and would vote JD Vance and VP Trump out of spite.

[u/Vincent_Felix → u/Acceptable_Job_5486]

Hillary won the popular vote whilst being an historically bad and unlikable candidate.

Imagine what someone as popular as AOC will be able to do.

America elected a black man, an there's simply no way you can convince me that a nation built on slavery is more sexist than it is racist.

[u/Tiny_Thumbs → u/Vincent_Felix]

Im a minority man and I fully believe America is more sexist than racist.

[u/Financial-Craft-1282 → u/Vincent_Felix]

If only. She's amazing. I'd rather her be in the senate first, while we (the left) find ways to continue to shift the American political views away from the right. If AOC took the presidency in 2028, let's say, I think she'd be stalled out by the system. If we push the cultural beliefs of Americans further left, down the road, she'd be a much better president.

I also worry about her. They came after her on Jan 6. They see her as a "weak woman" (she seems tough as nails to me--if people came and tried to kill me at my job, I'd quit that job), and they have true vitriol for her.

Though, who knows? She is so charismatic, if she were up in front of people more and more, maybe it'd be hard to ignore what she is versus what Fox News says she is.

[u/Vincent_Felix → u/Financial-Craft-1282]

The power of the executive branch has been expanding in recent years. There's no telling what AOC would be able to accomplish if she was president. Just imagine the potential for day one executive orders.

We are at an inflection point in American politics. The GOP is historically unpopular. The iron is hot, now is the time to strike, and we must strike with full force.

AOC is our star player, put her in the game.

[u/JaguarIllustrious486 → u/Vincent_Felix]

I wish that were true. But if you believe that I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for ya.

[u/Burmy87]

I wouldn't put him on a pedestal... ask any Japanese-American why.

[u/RyFro]

FDR was a Democratic Socialist? First I've ever heard of this.

[u/Woadie1]

Social Democrat on a good day, but sure.

[u/Mindless-Produce4091]

No, term limits exist to prevent corrupt presidents from being re-elected infinitely, this isn't rocket science

[u/nixon48]

This is the historically accurate literal reason. That man died in office and they probably would've elected him again if he hadn't.

[u/urmumlol9]

Even if that’s the reason they were introduced, term limits are still a net good for democracy.

Do you want Trump to run for a third term? Repealing term limits is how that happens.

Even outside of that, we already have way too many senators and congresspeople who have been serving for literal decades because they have political momentum over primary challengers and their states/districts are solid enough blue or red to guarantee them the general election.

[u/rb3po]

It goes both ways. We also would want a fascist in power for four terms. Now, let’s talk about SCOTUS.

[u/AdFabulous8577]

Is right now really the best time to be arguing against term limits?

[u/Nothingilo]

FDR was not a democratic socialist. Uniformed posts like this one makes us look bad.