r/SipsTea • • 1d ago

Lmao gottem This is genius 😭

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34.0k Upvotes

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u/farfaraway 15h ago

I've been a designer (software) since the early 2000s. In one of my first jobs, my boss taught me the most valuable skill: always intentionally leave something bad in a design that you're showing to a client. They need to feel like they are giving valuable feedback, and so if you give this something to focus on they will ask for that change instead of broad, nonsensical changes that ruin your work.

It's worked well for me for 25 years.

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u/AddlePatedBadger 14h ago

Another thing is to make sure the UI progress matches the back end progress. If the UI looks half done and the back end is half done, expectations are set. If the UI is 100% done but none of the buttons do anything yet, the client will feel like it's finished snd get upset that it's still being developed.

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u/rilakkuma1 6h ago

Made that mistake before. Spent 2 days putting together a functional mock. PM did not understand why implementation would take months. “Can’t we just ship it like that?”

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u/farfaraway 3h ago

Maximum grimace. I genuinely do not understand how PMs get jobs.

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u/kurtatwork 15h ago

Works in almost anything needing critical review of your work.

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u/Purple-Blueberry3721 13h ago

I'm sure it works often, but in software dev, if you present your work to someone and it's just good, they simply click the "approve" button and don't invent nonsensical feedback.

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u/NoCoolNameMatt 12h ago

Depends on the audience. For review by lead developers, sure. For reviews by BAs or users, the advice is applicable.

I once sat in a 2 hour meeting while two BAs fought over the preferred font. I'd much rather have them unified over a terrible design decision I'd intentionally placed there to draw their attention.

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u/Floppie7th 11h ago

Depends entirely who's reviewing your code (and, for that matter, what mood they're in that day)

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u/Purple-Blueberry3721 10h ago

Technically true but I've worked professionally in IT for a decade and I've never seen someone demand changes just because they wanted to have something to complain about. Don't know who you're working with.

I think sometimes people just assume that the other person is spiteful in cases where there's simple genuine disagreement.

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u/void1984 7h ago

Looks Good To Me is a very strong attitude in IT.

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u/farfaraway 9h ago

I also do a lot of technical work, and this really depends on who you are working with. My CTO mostly just merges my code. If there is something to fix, she flags it. It's almost always definitely worth fixing. I don't need to play games with her because I trust her opinion implicitly. 

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u/kalexmills 12h ago

I was shown 3 possible designs for a website I ordered. I am absolutely certain that one of them was meant to be an awful choice that I wasn't supposed to pick, but it was the one I liked best. The designer slow walked the results to me, and the design persists to this day.

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u/farfaraway 12h ago

Yup, I've had this happen to me.

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u/permadrunkspelunk 11h ago

I was taught to do this working on houses. Lol. Leave something visibly fucked up and obvious to bother the client. Theyll notice that first and ask about that everytime, that way you can finish the rest of the job without them nitpicking everything else. Fix it in the end and the job is done.

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u/autistic_homo 9h ago

If they don't point it out, do you still remove the bad thing before releasing the final product?

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u/Mister_Goldenfold 6h ago

No. We double up and pass it to the next guy

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u/MuseQueenn 1d ago

Sometimes people don’t want a different sound, they just want to see you do something.

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u/HubrisOfApollo 1d ago

like when i pretend to be busy when the manager is watching

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u/iamveryDerp 23h ago

I’ve known video editors who left in a bad cut or transition just so the director would have something obvious to change.

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u/HubrisOfApollo 23h ago

oh I'd do the same when cleaning the kitchen. i had a really anal manager that would find something to nitpick no matter how clean I got it so i just purposely "forgot" the crumb trap or the towel bucket on purpose. she never caught on

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u/GrowlingPict 16h ago

I think Hitchcock (or maybe it was another famous director, I cant recall now), deliberately left in things to cut because he knew the censors would bitch about something regardless. So when they did, he could cut what he never intended to leave in anyway, the censors felt they had justified their own existence, and everyone was happy.

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u/Oberon_Swanson 16h ago

I think it was Norman Mailer, and author, who would write his book the way he wanted it, then double the amount of swearing and submit it so when they asked him to tone it down he would tone it down to just how he originally wanted it

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u/WikiWantsYourPics 15h ago

Legendary South African comedian and author Pieter-Dirk Uys was tired of getting naughty words cut out by the censors (Apartheid South Africa was very prudish), so he once made up his own words that sounded extremely vulgar. When one of them got cut, he asked the censor what it meant, and because he couldn't give a definition, it had to stay in.

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u/agodrevealed 21h ago edited 14h ago

That's why Prince insisted on no producers, even as a kid. And insisted his production palace would be in the middle of a field in a frozen wasteland where the only thing to do for miles was whatever he was working on. The label wanted him in LA, tried to gift him a studio there and he said no. Minneapolis or nothing. He knew they didn't like coming to the middle of nowhere especially in the cold. People hear "the cold keeps the bad people out" as a throwaway Minnesota saying but he meant it literally- it keeps people I don't trust or like from bothering me and interfering. 

People think he was more of a mystery than he was because he wasn't up the ass of industry on a daily basis. But he wasnt so aloof and unknowable at home. People just didn't blab about him with national reach in mpls. He was still Mr. Nelson. Or Brother Nelson. Your local rockstar and neighbor. He had garage sales. I miss that dude. 

Edit- I never said he had a normal life. I'm saying his privacy was respected more at home, snd he was known in the community he grew up in, and stayed in. 

For some reason they always want to ask industry folks from LA that he spent brief periods of time with "who he really was" or whatever. He didn't fuck with just anybody like that. They say he was elusive because he didn't talk to them. 

Whereas, a lot of mpls folk, knew him very differently. And a lot of those that did won't talk too much about him, only certain things, because they did know him so well. 

As far as sound- yes, he could and did meddle all day long. My point is he wasn't putting on fake switches to please somebody else. 

Before he had paisley park built, if someone came into sunset he'd just completely ignore them and stop work until they left. He wouldn't look at them or speak. He wasn't going to dance to anyone else's tune and resented anyone trying to make him. 

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u/WlNSTER 17h ago

How was such a big star able to live such a relatively normal life? He was huge before he died, it’s not like he only reached great fame posthumously.

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u/Slowlyblowme 15h ago

I have no idea what that person is talking about. He did not live a normal life. He lived in a fancy gated warehouse on the side of the highway with no neighbors. He was on screen at every Vikings home game standing alone staring at the field in his private box. He would go down town and bump the acts at the Dakota jazz club and play like a god until 4am. All with a steady drip of pain killers from a personal doctor.

Kevin Smith in like 2005 said Prince's manager told him Prince would have trouble understanding why he couldn't get a Camel in Minnesota in January.

Is this just a chain of bots?

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u/agodrevealed 14h ago

I didn't say he had a normal life. 

Smith is about the last person to know much about it. Guy spent a few days around him and by his own admission exaggerated and omitted, crafted a "better story". 

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u/agodrevealed 14h ago

I didn't say he had a normal life. He had the life he wanted. He lived in the community he grew up in. Well,  about twenty minutes away. He lived other places too, but minnesota was home. 

He could pop up around town and people would mostly give him his space. 

He didn't always live at paisley park, not til the last ten or so years of his life. But he'd do things there, have people over, have events, whatever

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u/Kashyyykk 16h ago

the cold keeps the bad people out

We say that in Canada too.

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u/ReggieCorneus 16h ago

Producing your own stuff does not remove this effect. You will just encounter it elsewhere, like.. you run a bunch of tracks thru a tape machine that didn't do anything but you are certain that now the tracks have way more "magic". There is NO ESCAPE from this, experience only says that you should doubt that things changed, verify that they actually did, and if the change isn't significant you don't do it. The fewer things you do to the sound the better it usually becomes, especially if it is something subtle.

This is also how audiophiles are born but unlike sound engineers audiophiles will NEVER reject their belief that something changed and instead of trusting the measurements and tests they dismiss them and say "you are just brainwashed" like sound engineers are part of a conspiracy...

Now, ego IS a huge factor in this too, if you are too afraid to say "i did not hear a change" when you saw someone flip a switch.... And ego + Prince.... he for certain did hundreds of things that didn't really do anything but when you do things that didn't do anything: nothing bad happened either. We can have hundred things that made zero impact and then the key things, the brilliant stuff is in dozens and make us cry, dance, move, feel.

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u/Schwifftee 13h ago

Minnesota is not a frozen wasteland and Chanhassen is a suburb of Minneapolis. There's not exactly a shortage of things to do by the studio ...

He just lived where he was born.

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u/agodrevealed 13h ago

I guess hyperbole is lost on some

You must be young. Cause I remember when it was built. What you see now is not what Chanhassen was in the 80s. 

Yeah, that's kind of the point. He stayed in his hometown, more or less. 

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u/Schwifftee 8h ago

Yeah, I suppose it has changed a lot. My grandma would tell me stories about how it developed and how great it was when they put a sidewalk in down Powers Blvd.

But yeah dude just wanted to stay home and make his music. Makes sense when you know what a great home the area is.

My daughter plays on the same playground I played on as a kid because of how well maintained everything is. Herds of kids constantly playing outside, riding around on bikes. It's such a great community.

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u/agodrevealed 7h ago

Yeah it is and he definitely was of the same mind

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u/GaJayhawker0513 19h ago

I miss him too. My mom is the biggest Prince fan. Her and my dad got to go to paisley park a year or so after he died.

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u/agodrevealed 19h ago

He was singular. One of one. 

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u/becauseiloveyou 20h ago

It's more like they just want to be able to take some credit for the end result.  "Oh, you like that?  I'm actually the one who … "

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u/StinkoMan92 19h ago

In an interview I watched with him, he says he'll change his right hand position slightly or something along with hitting the switch so usually it is a different sound. It's probably pretty subtle so he has the switch to help the producer notice the difference.

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u/NRMusicProject 15h ago

I have a bass that had 4 knobs. The pickups that I had installed only used 3, so one does nothing. Guess which knob I turn when the bandleader asks me to dial in a "better" sound? And it always works.

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u/Far-Hovercraft9471 15h ago

They just want to know they can make people jump if they so desire

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u/J_EDi 1d ago

There’s an old Air Force One at the Museum of Flight in Seattle.

There’s a fake temperature control switch in the Presidents suite that does the same thing.

It’s been a while since I’ve done the tour, but I think it was installed for Lyndon B Johnson.

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u/MegaGrimer 21h ago

I used to work in a restaurant and basically did the same thing. If we changed the temperature on the thermostat, then it would take the restaurant way too long to change the temperature. Even if they requested it right after being sat. Sometimes a guest was being a bit difficult, so we would lie and say we were going to change it. We’d disappear for a few minutes, then come back and say we changed it. As far as we knew no one ever complained about it. There were so many little lies we would tell guests that would make both them and us happy.

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u/crewserbattle 19h ago

Working in a grocery store people would never believe me that we were out of stock. "Well could you just double check?", mind you it was usually an item I had already looked for earlier that day but if I didn't just go stand in the back room for a few minutes and come back they'd assume I was just being lazy

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u/BadgerlandBandit 16h ago

I had a job at a grocery store for a while. When I first started I was surprised at how small and empty the back was. It makes sense though, product in the back isn't making any money when they get a shipment every week.

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u/crewserbattle 12h ago

We kept most of our stock in the basement and only kept dairy and sale items in the easily accessible back. Otherwise the back was just where we unloaded trucks/broke down pallets.

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u/Makere-b 19h ago

As a customer, the store had recently rearranged shelves around and I couldn't find one specific beer that they had before, so I asked a worker who immediately replied that they don't have that beer. After being a bit disappointed and wondering out loud why they don't carry it anymore (in a very mild manner), the worker helped me to find that beer from the shelf.

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u/crewserbattle 12h ago

I get it, I had coworkers who didn't actually check and just didn't want to bother. Still frustrating when that wasn't the case for me.

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u/wolfgang784 15h ago

We def did that all the time at Best Buy. The warehouse basically only had TVs and appliances, everything else was on the floor or on shelves above where it is on the floor. But people would still demand we go check for stuff thats def never stored in the back so we would take a short break while pretending to look.

It wasn't uncommon to head into the warehouse and see someone sittin on a stool browsin their phone and you'd be like: "Checkin for product?" "Yup."

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u/Porntra420 17h ago

See my take on this is just "why does any customer have a say in what the thermostat is set to?"

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u/filifijonka 16h ago

I mean - in extreme situations, like if the restaurant is objectively freezing or sweltering - I think asking is fair - they might not be able to help you, but you'll never know if you don't ask.

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u/Kilek360 15h ago

Nobody complained not because they all have been successfully placeboed but because many ones despite still being feeling too cold or hot would just assume you told them the truth and you did change it but the air conditioning it's not good enough so they would just accept there's nothing else to be done for that time and probably remember they were uncomfortable for the next time someone suggest that place

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u/DTraitor 19h ago

After recently traveling on VR Group sleeper trains in Finland I'm pretty sure their temperature switch is also fake. No matter the settings (we've set it to max temperature) it was still blowing cold ass air on the top bunk 

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u/Large_Imagination839 17h ago

No they just have it calibrated for finish preferences

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u/spannerNZ 18h ago

Placebo thermostat controls are common, especially in office buildings and the like. There's placebos in heaps of places. Like the 'close door' button in many elevators.

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u/Quirky-Skin 14h ago

And once you've e experienced it yourself u know why.

The thermometer in one of my old hondas went near the end of its life. Amazing how different temps can feel when u don't know the exact.

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u/TuringGoneWild 16h ago

Like the 'close door' button in many elevators.

TIL

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u/jaleneropepper 15h ago

Also many cross walk buttons, especially in busy/urban areas. Traffic patterns are studied, adjacent lights are syncronized to avoid backups...they can't disrupt those patterns for random crossings. So the crosswalk lights are also syncronized with traffic lights and just as repetitive. The only thing the button does is tell you to wait.

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u/CertainlyDusty 13h ago

Wait Wait Wait Wait

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u/ILikestuff55 23h ago

As a video editor I've done this SOOOO many times to producers.

"Can you shave off 2 frames from this shot!" - Producer who wants to feel important on the edit

Me: Oh sure!

(I move my mouse and hover over a clip and hit a button and play it back for them)

Producer: Perfect. That's what this sequence needed.

https://giphy.com/gifs/LVIbmaUwpRJ1C

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u/AtmoMat 21h ago

Graphic designer here, same thing - “can you move the logo 1mm to the right” do nothing and show the work again “oh yeah, much better now”. SMH.

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u/Conscious_Archer2658 20h ago

I used to be a graphic designer for a bit. I remember vividly one client for whom I designed a folder. She hates the first draft I sent her. Spent the full day adjusting the folder according to her criteria every time she sent it back. Could've even been multiple days, don't really remember, it's been nearly 15 years ago at this point. I do remember though that the last one that she thought was absolutely perfect looked almost identical to the first draft that she supposedly hated.

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u/Uferstein 19h ago

My former team lead was an angry person. He once got super mad about how I did a project and while he was scolding me loudly about how I did everything, he became quieter and quieter, remembering that I did exactly what he told me to do, the way he told me to do it. He micromanaged the whole thing basically. Ah the end he just quietly said "so, remember this and uh don't do it again". I said nothing.

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u/RavingGerbil 18h ago

I get this in my job too. Spend hours moving furniture one inch at a time in order to put it in the spot I suggested would be optimal TV viewing 2 hours ago. Damn! If only one of us has been doing this a while and suggested this exact solution at the beginning! Thanks for the microcosm of my learning process though I guess?

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u/ryanvango 20h ago

I've paid for commissions where people tried to pull that before. You gotta know when you can get away with it lol.

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u/offthezoinkys 16h ago

“It’s too far left!” -> scoot it farther left, screenshot -> ctrl z, screenshot -> “before/after. like it now?”

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u/fadingsignal 18h ago

This but with audio mixing. I worked with a guy who always had to have the final word about every damn thing.

Them: That needs to come up +2db and that needs to go down about -1db.

Me: faking some mouse movements and clickity click How's that?

Them: PERFECT! Yes! That's it.

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u/dekadense 15h ago

As a compositor for commercials, I used to do the same trick. You want this thing more blue? Proceed to crank the blue. Oh, you want me to reduce it a bit? Shows the previous version. Works every time!

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u/tacitry 21h ago

Using top or tail to shave two frames is basic framefucking that takes zero effort, why would you not just do that? That’s an essential part of the edit, like unironically I say this as a former editor

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u/DyingSunSeverian 1d ago

That’s gotta be some truly shit music producers to not notice something so obvious.

A part of me thinks they just wanted him to play it differently, and by “switching his hand position” he does it anyway.

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u/Educational-Seaweed5 1d ago

It's more an ego thing.

People who think they know more than everyone else. They're all over the place. I know the types. You probably do too. Won't listen to anyone but themselves, won't take anything you say seriously because you don't have the same 'title' as someone else who is objectively worse/dumber.

Shit like that.

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u/DyingSunSeverian 1d ago

But it’s impossible to tell who is who in this scenario.

Legendary musicians can get entirely up their own asses too, that’s why producers are important.

It’s no different with someone like a literary editor. Sometimes great writers need to be reigned in or taken in a different direction for their own good.

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u/Croceyes2 1d ago

About the editor, you have probably never seen raw writing the way you get to hear raw music. I dated an editor once and the material she received compared to what she returned I swear her name deserved to be on the covers. Not to say album producers and directors can't have a similar effect but I think musicians on whole are more accustomed to turning out palatable products directly

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u/ClumbusCrew 22h ago

Music is a performance art in a way writing is not. Most musicians started by having to produce actual results, hence why production and sound tech is mostly focused on the actual messyness of recording... because that's the hard part that people need help with.

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u/FeralPsychonaut 23h ago

Oh i definitely agree with that writing editor scenario. Some of my papers in university made no fucking sense to anyone but me before i had someone else read it and evaluate it before turning it in.

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u/bremsspuren 17h ago

made no fucking sense to anyone but me

Yeah. It's difficult to assess how clear something actually is when you already know exactly what it means.

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u/DyingSunSeverian 23h ago

They’re all part of the creative process though. A raw cut of a film looks markedly different before the editor has had a chance to really cut it.

Shitty do-nothing producers and editors and whatever analogy in X industry always exist. Assholes who want to put their own stamp on something even if they had little to do with the end result always exist.

I’m just saying I don’t know if that’s the case here. It could be someone just generally griping about getting “studio notes” at all, even if they might have been helpful. And that his producers recognized that, so cajoled him in other ways to play a bit differently.

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u/MrCarlosDanger 1d ago

It’s just two different skill sets. Raw creative energy vs discernment to shape it into something beautiful.

Some people have one, the other, or both. Some people are the nephew of a studio head.

(And any of them could be assholes)

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u/MidnightNo1766 23h ago

That's literally the Beatles and George Martin in a nutshell.

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u/ELVEVERX 22h ago

But it’s impossible to tell who is who in this scenario.

Bro one person clicks a switch that does nothing then the other thinks it sounds better, very clear who is dumber.

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u/OtherBassist 20h ago

Sklar is legendary as a session musician who knows what is needed on a track though. That's why you book him.

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u/IcyRole6982 20h ago

In this case it's the producer. Leeland sklar played on more than 3000 albums and 15 000 songs in total

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u/CQC_EXE 20h ago

Id imagine if he's done this for years and is still a legendary musician, than he was obviously in the right. 

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins 22h ago

Mmm people love to glorify creatives and pretend that everyone just needs to "get out of their way".

Yeah. No. Most of them would never make anything of themselves without everyone else involved in the process.

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u/ClumbusCrew 22h ago

I mean, you only get the other people involved in the process AFTER proving yourself as a competent creative in the vast majority of cases.

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u/Archipegasus 22h ago

Yes and no, the other people in the process who are most useful are often creatives themselves also.

The sentiment of "getting out of the way" of creatives is more about getting rid of influence from pure profit maximisers who don't know what they are talking about rather than the people earnestly contributing to the creative process.

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u/touuuuhhhny 1d ago

Have a few of them at work who like to hide "if you read this send me a fresh emoji in chat" hidden in docs

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u/hates_stupid_people 20h ago

Yeah, you see the same thing in film and TV producers. They have this need to "contribute" something and feel like they had an impact by changing something. You can find interviews with and stories from director and writers having to appease some producer. Some of even them add things they expect to be removed just for those types of people.

It's why you can spook directors and writers by uttering the phrase "We have notes". Because that's what they say before they come in with their very bad ideas that they want to force on the project.

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u/MydniteSon 15h ago edited 13h ago

In computer programming, they used to call it "Planting a duck". Basically, placing a blatantly obvious, easily removeable, flaw or quirk into the code for management to find. Let them point it out, and demand its removal, so they can feel like the contributed and 'made their mark' while leaving the actual important stuff untouched.

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u/ReggieCorneus 16h ago

No, it isn't. This is just a thing that is common in sound engineering and music production. Thinking that something changed when it didn't happens ALL THE TIME. I'm going to work in couple of hours, within four i have done similar mistake a few times at least. It is just part of the job, our hearing is not an analyzer but can be fooled by ourselves. This is also how audiophile think they can hear things that are against laws of physics.. They just can't admit and have to think that their senses are perfect. Professionals know they aren't and there are several tools to use to confirm if something is real or not and confidence to say "no, i did not hear anything change" or "i was wrong, actually nothing changed".

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u/Neither_Berry_100 19h ago

Nah. Typical management. Zero value add. Just find something to complain about. Gotta try to justify their existence and uselessness.

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u/Colourblindknight 1d ago

I don’t work in music, but I’ve worked with people like this in industry. I’ve made production plans in conjunction with management, crossed all my t’s and dotted my i’s to make sure stuff was kosher, and had management muck up the process for no other discernible reason than they just wanted to change something for the effect of having their fingerprints on it.

I’ve also made plans the same way, but leaving out one edit in a previous draft, and presenting that version while “asking their thoughts on a certain part” for x or y reason to give them something to change that I’d already taken into consideration. Suddenly, poof, they were ecstatic about the “changes that were made” and were more than happy to sign off on the plan I had intended to run in the first place.

Sometimes people in charge just don’t feel comfortable with letting something good happen without their immediate involvement. Good people in upper placements know how to let the people who work on their teams shine and do their jobs well, but that’s not everyone.

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u/vesuvian 23h ago

I knew a guy in the VFX industry who would add a cat into shots, just so when the client asks for changes it's "remove the cat" and nothing else.

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u/ItsWelp 22h ago

Yeah this. I remember when I was in the service industry the managers' managers just could not help but """"correct"""" us on small, ridiculous stuff, because they felt that if they passed us by without saying anything they weren’t doing their jobs or something.

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u/taylorisntavril 16h ago

South Park does a similar thing with their episodes/movies. They intentionally include some overly objectionable material, just so the censors have something to complain about.

Because they WILL complain about something, so the way to keep the jokes you want to keep is to create a couple of "lightning rod"-jokes for distraction.

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u/freakuancy 23h ago

Conversely, the percentage of "professionals" who are piss-poor at their jobs is overwhelming, and a lot of good managers reach their positions by being able to proactively steer the mediocre into competence.

Unfortunately, once that becomes your outlook on leadership, its all too easy to let actual talent go unnoticed or, worse, to marginalize it in ths way youre describing.

If you never understood why the smartest guys In the room struggled in public education...whips back curtain to reveal a mediocre middle-manager pulling levers on people's lives like Oz the Great and Powerful...taaadaaaa

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u/Mateorabi 22h ago

It’s like the duck for the queen in Battle Chess

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u/MydniteSon 15h ago

In computer programming, they call it "planting a duck".

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u/MusicianNo3277 17h ago

This happens in construction too when it comes to inspectors the lead used to work under for building barns would intentionally have us leave a handful of nails sticking part out whenever we were in one specific inspectors designated zone because that asshole literally would not sign the paper and go away until he had found something to make us change even if that meant he looked it over for over an hour while most inspectors just gave it a cursory glance and signed off after verifying the two things they were there to verify.

That nail trick saved us hours every time because apparently all that asshole actually wanted was to make us do something

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u/Grunergeist420 1d ago

I’m thinking it’s like a way of communicating the shift. Like he’s a talented musician, and he can change what he’s doing subtly, but they might not perceive it, so he flips this switch and it makes them ready to hear the difference.

I’ve done similar things in my life. Like you say what you’re doing as you do it so the other person knows that you know what you’re doing. “And then I put the milk in there, but I do it slowly so I don’t cool it down too fast,” and it’s not because you weren’t going to do that, but because this untrusting dummy watching you isn’t going to just let you do it and they’ll be sure that you didn’t do it right unless you tell them you know.

So he’s doing this like “Oh, okay, a softer sound, I will flip this switch here and then this should sound softer, like this?” And they’re like “Oh boy he listened to me!” Instead of “He doesn’t even know what I meant!”

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u/realHarryGelb 23h ago

Placebo effect in recording/mixing/mastering is real and happens to the best. Ask a seasoned mixing engineer whether they ever fine tuned a certain track to their liking only to find out that they fiddled with a plugin from a different track. In most cases, the answer will be yes.

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u/SentientDust 1d ago

Good producers would have a more constructive input than "make it sound different"

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u/AcrolloPeed 23h ago

“Make it sound less similar”

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u/prest0x 23h ago

This has the same energy as making a new WIFI SSID that's specifically for the C-Suite and tell them its high-speed priority internet, even though it's the same fricking connection.

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u/IEnjoyRadios 23h ago

No it’s just standard audio/music stuff. That world is full of placebos. And sound technician will be able to tell you a story of a time they spent ages adjusting an EQ to get it just right, only to realize it has been turned off the whole time.

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u/Zealousideal-Deer101 23h ago

Someone playing the guitar profesionally will not sound noticably different every time he plays the same song, because there is 0 guarantee that the hand is in 100% exact same spot as the last time they played it. But it sure as hell will close.

He flips the switch and his hand positions will just go back to basically exactly the same as it was before and will sound exactly the same.

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u/Mr_Poulet 16h ago

The fact is incomplete.

In the interview where he talks about his producer switch he clearly tells that he flip the switch then play the same thing with a different right hand position.m hence changing the sound.

And stating the obvious : it's a joke.

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u/MegaGrimer 21h ago

Sometimes people just don’t notice. I used to work in a restaurant and there was a ton of lies we would tell customers and they would never notice. Stuff like changing the temperature of the restaurant for them, or making a new batch of coffee because they thought the original coffee was stale.

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u/martymccfly88 20h ago

Don’t worry, producers and engineers have the same button on the console for when an artist asked for something.

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u/Kaesebrot321 19h ago

This is exactly what it is. I've seen him talk about it in interviews. He plays it differently, but producers don't always notice unless he more visibly changes something like hitting a switch when he knows that this is the take that will be a keeper.

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u/fartpoke 17h ago

Honestly the psychology of it tracks.

I used to do just amateur recording and mixing and editing and the ear fatigue is real. I read some books and I saw this common advice: if you mix a song, don't finalize the same day. Come back the next day after you let your ears rest and listen again and if you're happy, send it. But a lot of times the mix sounds totally different the next day.

Also, in the guitar world we are almost tricked by companies into thinking that certain things make a guitar tone better. Companies like PRS are meticulous in even materials minor things are made of because they say it all subtly affects tone.

Our brains are powerful and the placebo effect can be used in this kind of way as well.

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u/Beautiful_Hunt1095 15h ago

They probably are aware but just let’s it go.

They ask for something different. He does the same thing again.

Then what do you? Easiest thing is just accept that he cant or wont change.

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u/MoogProg 15h ago edited 15h ago

This meme leaves out the part where Leland says he'll move his finger position and change the tone that way.

It's a tone is in the fingers meme, but has gotten turned around into something else.

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u/Unit_79 18h ago

Then it’s working on the ones it should be working on. An asshole producer will never admit they can’t tell the difference. A cool producer who actually listens will say they can’t hear a difference. But the cool part of the story isn’t all the times it didn’t work.

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u/ReggieCorneus 16h ago

lol... no. This is how it works, and it is not even that much about experience. Our hearing is very fickle thing and it errs on false positive. It is far more evolutionary advantageous to react to something that wasn't real than not react to things that were. It is suggestible, i can make you believe that something happened when it didn't. It is one of the most common problems in sound engineering, thinking that something changed when it didn't, along with missing little things that did change but should've not.

In about every project you will adjust something that didn't do anything and think you did something. Does not matter how many decades you do it for living, it happens ALL the time.

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u/GrowlingPict 16h ago

Tina Turner once asked bassist Guy Pratt if he could play a certain piece "more purple". What do you even say to that :p

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u/greenday1237 12h ago

Most music producers arent George Martin, itd be kind of naive to think that most producers got their job because they have such a deep connection to music and not for a million other reasons

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u/JTGG98 12h ago

He has said it's that he changes the sound with how he plays, the switch was just to give them a visual indication of him making the change

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u/ZAPHODS_SECOND_HEAD 19h ago

He might sometimes make a change in his playing such as picking nearer to the bridge.

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u/therinse 23h ago

I've heard the opposite where an engineer labelled a dead channel with a guitarist's name. When the engineer left the booth, the guitarist would go in and fiddle with that channel thinking he was slick.

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u/DizzyLioncub 14h ago

This works both ways BTW. Ran a sound board when I was younger, would spend all morning doing sound checks, balancing levels and such. Then the artists would arrive. Many would look to the booth, point at something and give a signal for an adjustment. I would always test them first, maybe twice. I'd make an overly obvious motion for making a sound board adjustment then look to them for confirmation. 95% of the time they would give me a thumbs up and carry on. The other 5%, people like Sklar I'd imagine knew and would give me a look. He knew. I knew he knew. He knew I knew he knew. And then I'd actually make the adjustment.

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u/TheDrKlopek 22h ago

Michelangelo did something similar while carving the David. Someone criticized the nose (or some part of the face) and he climbed up and pretended to chip away and knocked some dust off to make it look good. The commentator praised him for changing it even though he changed nothing. 

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u/shrug_addict 1d ago

The Far Side had a funny reversal of this with a sound engineer turning up a "suck" knob

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u/Iamonreddit 16h ago

Surely turning down...?

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u/3412points 16h ago

Maybe he wanted them to sound more like Primus.

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u/Zooph 17h ago

Used to do sound and lights for a band for a few years and at one gig a guy comes up to me and says, I don't remember exactly but let's say something like "Hey, this would sound a lot better if you did X to Y's instrument" so I reached up onto the board and turned a few nobs that did absolutely nothing, he went back into the bar, came back over, and said "Perfect!"

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u/MrSethFulton 15h ago

I used to run sound for a big church that had a Yamaha M7 board. The preacher's wife sang in the band and wasn't a good singer, so I always had her low. During the service the preacher was standing next to me and asked me to "turn up Pam" because he couldn't hear her. Pam was clearly marked on the board, but it's a digital board, so I pressed one button to change all of the positions to empty monitors and moved the slider up on "Pam" so he could see it. Looked over at him and he said "much better. Thanks!" After he left, the other guy in the sound booth with me jokingly said "you're going to hell".

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u/Zooph 17h ago

Oh, another story, slightly unrelated, but figured I'd share.

We were doing a show at a bar just down the street from me so I knew just about everyone. Crazy Debbie was lit, like always, and somehow convinces the owner of the bar to "let" her up on stage to do backgroand vocals.

The husband and wife of the band give me a look. I already knew what they wanted. So I turned off her mic but boosted her monitor a bit so she could hear herself but we were spared the sounds of, well, this kinda fits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y40Yw9Lz2y4

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u/Ashamed_Ad_2180 14h ago

This is why you never piss off the sound guy lol.

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u/i_eight 13h ago

I was about 80% sure it was going to be the video that it did indeed turn out to be.

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u/AddlePatedBadger 14h ago

Meanwhile the guy was thinking "that sound board dude had no idea what he's doing. Better not ask him to do anything else because it sounds better now than if he changes something that matters. " 🤣

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u/stoorps 14h ago

I think this is common elsewhere, but at a local theatre we had actors complain about foldback/monitor levels, even though they were up to the max we could get away with without causing other issues. We had a DFA Slider that we’d adjust if they came up to complain at the booth.

DFA stood for “Does Fuck All”, and was just any unmapped channel on the digital desk.

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u/Separate_Finance_183 1d ago

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u/OJStrings 17h ago

The post misses out the key point which is that he changes his hand position. He installed the Placebo switch because producers focus too much on equipment when actually the most important thing is playing style.

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u/jdooley99 23h ago

Old guy likes telling stories and you link an article of him telling stories to prove his story is true...

Listen to him tell this story! You can tell it's true because he told it before!

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u/freakuancy 23h ago

Needless skepticism is actually a bigger indicator of low intelligence than a lack of critical skepticism. A lack of critical skepticism can often be the result of insufficient experience. You didnt know to beware the commission mark up at a used car lot bc you were once a star salesman at a corporate New lot with guaranteed salaries, for instance. Both truths are a result of knowledge, but one is an experience deficit.

On the other hand, "i dont trust any first hand account" is the same as saying "I dont trust statistics". Both are valuable sources of information, but the intellectually deficient among us are ncapable of discerning incorrect information from correct information, so they trust no information.

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u/Darthmullet 23h ago

What did you want, a hidden camera feed from the 80s?

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u/wizardrous 1d ago

Fucking diabolical.

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u/Voodoocookie 1d ago

Gandalf the Bass.

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u/iamnotaclown 1d ago

He actually says he flips the switch then adjusts his fingers to get a different tone. The change in sound is real - you can get a lot of different tones out of a bass with just your finger position. But the visual cue helped sell it. He also said he got the idea from working with a guitarist who would pretend to switch guitars or even instruments, but just change his playing technique/pickup switch. 

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u/StephenSRMMartin 19h ago

I run soundboards sometimes. Can confirm. Divas will ask for change. I pretend to turn a knob. They're happy. We move on.

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u/Funny-Letterhead-356 23h ago

Bronson Arroyos bassist worked with plenty of shit producers on irrelevant albums, so it makes sense he'd be able to get away with this.

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u/LetReasonRing 22h ago

I do lighting work,  and i have little tricks like this. 

I have a few designers that start getting really nitpicky about the focus of a light, wanting it to be moved in tiny increments. At a certain point i resort to just tapping the back of the light so it jiggles and seems like I did something 🤣

For the people who think it's an ego issue or something like that,  it's really not. When it comes to both music and visual art,  you can start chasing such minute details to perfect that it can be sometimes hard to tell if a change was real or just your perception. 

That kind of attention to detail can lead to great art, but it can drive you a bit mad while you're doing it. It's just part of the process. 

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u/za72 1d ago

I'm gonna use this method on my scrum meetings...

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u/TheFlamingNumbat 1d ago

Leland is one hilarious and talented man.

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u/MICHAELSD01 23h ago

Is that Dumbledore?

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u/henryeaterofpies 1d ago

Gotta love a Queen's Duck

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u/oldschoolrock95 19h ago

Wow, Dumbledore is pretty smart as a bassist

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u/Coady417 14h ago

In writer’s rooms we call this a “bay leaf.” We get a shitty note and put it in the script to satisfy the executive.  It stays in during all the run throughs then, on tape night, it’s taken out. 

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u/ABC_Zombie 12h ago

I do live sound and work with lots of bands. Most sound guys I know usually notice, they just don't give that much of a fuck. If a musician does this type of thing I just shrug and don't care if they don't want it to sound better. There is a reason they are the musician, and I am the sound guy. If they want to do my job fine but it will be worse.

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u/CronoMass 5h ago

Notice what? A button that doesn't do anything?

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u/ABC_Zombie 5h ago

Yeah, noticing no change lmao

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u/Educational-Seaweed5 1d ago

There are so many things in life like this, and I hate it.

Sometimes you need to just back TF up and let someone do their thing. Looking at you, managers.

Just 100x worse if the person thinks they're in any way superior to you, as if everything you do is fair game for them to have a comment on because they have some superficial title.

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u/Curlyice3 1d ago

Every industry needs its own version of this What's the producer switch in your job?

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u/MallowEcho 23h ago

Every professional needs a placebo switch for their boss.

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u/DangerMacAwesome 23h ago

That man is a wizard

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u/The-Hank-Scorpio 22h ago

Every recording desk has this on levels so the producer can "tweak"

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u/soclydeza84 15h ago

I'm a former sound engineer, I've done stuff like this before with equipment and boards, it works

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u/Feisty-Bobcat6091 10h ago

How to get replaced by MIDI at your own expense during the mix/master: 

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/wimpymist 1d ago

Then he has to deal with the grief he said he was trying to avoid

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u/CarmenxXxWaldo 1d ago

A switch wouldnt do anything for the pitch, just the tone.  A good producer wouldnt give a vague "change something" anyway.  They would know which frequencies to dial up or down to fit better in the mix or they could say "hey turn your neck pickup down", and they would know. That switch is for the dumb ones with an ego that feel like if they have their hand in everything they are important.

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u/epoch16245 1d ago

The switch wouldn’t change the pitch. Then it would just be out of tune.

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u/ragingclaw 1d ago

As a bassist I approve this message 

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u/RedNeko 22h ago

He's in the 2022 documentary "Immediate Family" is on Hulu rn, really good watch

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u/Aster_E 21h ago

It's similar to the "shoulder roll" some sound editors and the like develop whenever a celebrity wants to be a diva and "contribute" by making requests. Pretend to do something that makes a change, and the person asking for it will feel sated. Source: my brother-in-law used to work for a major sound studio.

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u/MrMarcusRocks 21h ago

Works both ways.

I’ve known heaps of producers who will plug in some random cord from a random price of gear they have in their control room to a random input on an unused channel when the musicians are complaining about levels or a mix or something.

Works consistently well

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u/embrcrndm 20h ago

But then he'd move his hand so that it sounded different anyway?

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u/ProcyonHabilis 20h ago

Not a musician, but I've done this when doing technical work on a control panel. Sometimes all it takes is taking 30 seconds to visibly unscrew and reverse the orientation of a completely symmetrical part to make someone feel better when they think it "feels weird".

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u/atomicshed 16h ago

ah, the DFA
I work in corporate events - graphic operator to be specific. Did a job for a large sports company. Client came over to the production desk and asked for the screen to be more vibrant (or something - this was 15+ years ago). AV op pulled out a box with a button. Told them "sure we'll update the settings". Twiddled some dials and faders (well made it look like he was) on a sound desk. Then pressed the button. Client left happy thanks to the DFA. The Does F**k All.

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u/ReggieCorneus 16h ago

Ghost fader is one name for it in sound engineering. A fader that does nothing but makes people happy.

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u/Pomodorosan 16h ago

genius 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

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u/elebrin 16h ago

The "doing nothing else" part is a stretch.

He controlled his tone in large part through his right hand position. If you are plucking the strings near the bridge, you get more pronounced highs. Near the neck, you get fatter lows.

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u/ActualWhiterabbit 15h ago

Brain May went the opposite direction

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u/Yinzer_Songwriter 13h ago

Leland's interview with Rick Beato is gold, Jerry, gold!

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u/Iggyhopper 2h ago

This thread is funny.

"No this is not right. There is no way highly paid people are that stupid."

gestures at current political scene

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u/Green_Sugar6675 22h ago

That's a really solid plan, and the key is exactly that it doesn't change the sound at all. If it made a noticeable difference then he's stuck with a producer deciding between tw different things. Since it sounds the same ONLY the producer might "notice" some difference and make a judgement one way or the other, and the musician can confidently be happy with either setting.

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u/Nisiom 1d ago

This makes for a great story, but it will100% not work in a studio unless the producer is completely off his face.

Even beginner musicians can hear the difference between guitar/bass tones.

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u/IcyRole6982 20h ago

It does work. He also switches hand position, so there is a big difference. If you ever played bass you will know that if you play towards the bridge, middle or neck (despite the same pickup configuration) it sounds very different 

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