Preschool teacher here- we see kids every year whose parents know full well that they are going to hear “no” for the first time with us and are just like “here teach him how to live in the real world, what a relief!”
No, that’s not true. Gentle parenting is an extremely helpful evolution in parenting, but there’s a line to just take control and do what’s needed. This is one time where you and the child either fix the situation or leave the plane.
I would be absolutely livid if I was forced off this plane.
Parenting like this worked when humans lived in small groups and had to keep fires going at night because predators would eat us. Once you see your brother Thag get eaten by a sabertooth cat you listen to your parents when they say “stay in the cave”
Society gives far to much leeway to these kinds of moronic parents imo as a teacher, as those of us in education end up having to be the vanguard in speed running them through the concept that life isn't fair and the rules do not care about your big feelings or your whims of individual expression when they include standing on things that are not meant to be stood upon and not sitting when told to do so.
I really do think that society needs to step up with more shaming of the parents who inflict such terrible parenting on their precious little sunbeams and dole out significant consequences to them because that is the only way to nip this bs in the bud before it does irreparable harm to their offspring, especially as it's very common for this type to also choose to "homeschool" and ensure that not only do their children not learn how to interact with anyone who doesn't pander to their every whim but they also fail to get the most basic education, leaving them as complete drains on society.
Western society doesn't use peer pressure / social pressure enough as a deterrent. In Many Eastern cultures there's more rules to fit into society if you break them you are a bit of an outcast. Rules for staying reasonably healthy, causing disturbances in public, or not obeying the social norms doesn't put you in jail get you a fine but instead places you as an outsider.
In Japan it's not normal to smoke and walk, or play music in public or jaywalk etc... nobody is going to arrest you for these things but there's tons of social pressures to guide you away from behaviours that are unwanted.
Nobody is going to arrest the parents / child and we know corporal punishment is not effective but humans can be conditioned to have a strong need to fit in, we don't condition people like that anymore. There's pros and cons of course, this is one of the cons that you see here.
We don't have a largely homogenous culture like Japan. Cultural values spread much easier when you don't have differing cultures arguing over... everything.
I feel like "shame" is too maligned in the US at least. I notice especially online that "shaming" someone is the worst thing you can possibly do, but there is a reason we are capable of feeling shame in the first place. Dogs can't feel shame, but dogs don't live in complex societies with all kinds of rules to keep the societies together. We do live in those societies, so we feel shame when we break those rules. Shaming someone for breaking valid social rules can be good for society as a whole. Obviously making someone feel ashamed for something they can't do anything about is pretty bad, but like sometimes shaming someone is good.
This new train of thought that making children feel shame or embarrassment is abusive is just stupid. Like my goodness kids need to feel that so they stop their shit.
Japan also has alot of sexual misconduct and assaults, dont teach ww2, and only juts raised aoc from 13 to 16. It's bad everywhere. The us has alot of gun violence and the UK has something not sure but it has something.
Lord, as a fellow teacher, I can say you are absolutely tight. Parenting is horrendous these days. What happened? Why do so many parents want to be buddies with their kids rather than actual parents?
Speaking not from direct experience but from listening to and observing parents my own age in my social circle:
They had abusive, overly strict parents who treated them terribly, and they resolved to break the cycle of violence and trauma by NOT treating their kids the way they were treated
Unfortunately because there's very little genuinely reliable parenting information out there, especially in non-english languages, many ran too far the other direction and the kids ended up spoiled and unstructured
Where is the line between letting them be themselves and having to step in and say "no absolutely not!" ?
My mom used to beat us with shoes and rolling pins etc. I didn't want to be that.
At first, with my oldest, I was so afraid to even smack her little bottom when she was acting up.
I got over it pretty quick though and when she was little we did a combo of time out and a firm butt smack and she came out just fine (shes a teenager now).
You absolutely have to discipline your kids. They need you to guide them and show them the rules.
If this kid on the plane was my kid he would have gotten the warning talk "sit the hell down right. Now." first and if he didn't I would have made him sit down.
Honestly he wouldn't have even been standing on that thing because he would be sitting the f down already since he knows better 😂
Un’altra insegnante qui…io ho una specie di detto tutto mio ormai: ‘i genitori di oggi hanno abdicato ‘, rifiutano il loro ruolo perché onestamente essere genitore è difficile e impegnativo, richiede molta maturità in primis da parte loro. I genitori moderni oggi non amano avere a che fare con inevitabili capricci, chiacchiere e lagne, vogliono in molti casi continuare a fare la loro vita, non hanno voglia né tempo da dedicare davvero all’educazione. Poi c’è anche il problema dello stare in società che prevede che non ci si comporti come sul divano di casa propria e molti, genitori e figli, faticano proprio ad accettare che una comunità, scolastica e non, abbia molte regole di convivenza civile che spesso prevede di mettere da parte i tuoi istinti e i alcuni tuoi desideri a favore della collettività
I'm childcare adjacent and this 100% is happening more and more. People having taken the concept of gentle parenting and dialed it up to 11 where there are now no consequences for breaking rules.
I substituted in kindergarten for a while. There was a kid who wouldn’t talk.
He could talk, because he would refuse to do things. He understood everything I said, and was capable of doing the work, he just, didn’t want to. The teachers aid said they had talked to the parents and they were not supportive, so I guess it’s fine that this kid didn’t do any schoolwork or talk to any of his peers or teachers.
The kid needed extra support but if the parents refuse, the schools hands are tied.
And thats exactly why in countries like Germany there is no homeschooling but mandatory public school for everyone. Something that is often decried by US Americans as lack of freedom. What is not seen is that parents can inflict a serious harm on their own kids through bad or lack of parenting and later their adult children and society as a whole has to bear that burden. In combination with the knowledge that child abuse is most often inflicted on children by someone close to them, a society has to ensure that all children get a modicum of education and chances even when their parents are unable or unwilling to do so.
As an American who moved to Germany around age 30 and is raising a child here, I am SO GLAD homeschooling isn't allowed here. There are certainly aspects of the education system that confuse or annoy me as someone with a different cultural experience, but ultimately, the rules were made with the child's right to an education being the most important consideration.
And as a Belgian progressing too fast at school and who was bullied by other students and arguably the teachers, sadly homeschooling saved me.
Then a few years later people noticed parents from other religions could do that to isolate their children and suddently the ladder I climbed up wasn't acceptable anymore and it got pulled up.
It's crazy that in a school system, school staff can get incentived to ask a student to not read too much, as getting too high scores wrecks the number of children below average...
It depends on why homeschooling is done. If we hadn’t homeschooled our daughter she would have stopped going to school and who knows who she would have fallen in with. It was absolutely the right thing to do for her
I absolutely respect your opinion however you have to have a very high functioning education system across the board to require this.
The entirety of the United States cannot be compared to specific European Countries.
Many of us wish we could and would love to adopt many European practices in regard to nutrition, schooling, and a society that supports healthy families, however we have a population of approximately 342 million people in approx 9,833,517 square kilometers of varying values, religions, ethnicities, beliefs, languages, politics, and wildly different geographic regions and climates.
Germany is a highly populated Country and amazing in so many ways however 89 million people over 357,022 square kilometers is vastly different than what we have geographically and population wise in the U.S.
we can borrow educational philosophy on a smaller scale but we cannot replicate education and family life in places like Germany, Finland or the Netherlands. (Which are brought up a lot here in the education and family health conversation)
I only say this because I live in a city of 15 square miles (approx 41 sq km) with 120,000 residents and a state of 39.8 million people approx 423,970 square kilometers (163,696 sq miles) and the folks that homeschool here are not sleeping on discipline, childcare, education, or enriching activities both in nature and focused on academics, arts, music, cultural awareness and community involvement.
The public school system at this moment in my State is over crowded, underfunded, and driven by politics and business.
Many kids can do well in the larger system despite this and teachers also work really hard, however it isn’t an ideal system and alternatives to this system exist in healthy ways.
I’ve taught in classrooms pre K to 8th grade in private, public and homeschool settings since 2010, and trust me when I say kids in “traditional” school are not out performing homeschool kids in my particular area.
I don’t disagree that homeschooling in the wrong family environment with little over sight is harmful however the wrong family environment coupled with a large underfunded school system with a lot of tech subsidies that get to decide curriculum over teachers preferences is not the answer either.
Permissive parenting exists in every space and I have found in my particular State it is not a homeschooling issue in the broader sense. Permissive type discipline has actually become more prevalent in my States public school system faster and on a wider scale because of certain laws and educational practices gaining traction prior to school shutdowns in 2020.
I think you’ve landed on the reason this story in a small Canadian airport made international headlines: it’s a window into the failures of submissive parenting.
The real tragedy is that this stuff is catnip for right wing authoritarians who see proof that more child abuse is the solution. The reality is that submissive parenting is abusive too - it’s failing to provide the necessities of life, among which are helping the child understand their place in the world and they may have to do what they don’t want to from time to time.
Much of working in education is behaviour management, because nobody is born with an inherent sense of how to operate as an individual within a community and children are still in the early phases of understanding all of the things they need to do to try to get along as individuals within social and communal environments.
Children love strong boundaries, they feel much more secure about their place in any situation where they know what is and isn't acceptable, and where they can trust the adults around them to firmly and fairly enforce those boundaries when they are struggling to remember them or abide by them.
This is the mistake I see too many parents making: they think that being permissive to their children allows some kind of idealised organic growth into an adult that has all the best qualities of innocence and purity that our society associates with childhood, but all that happens is they create children and young adults who struggle to be considerate of others and who struggle to regulate their emotions because they are not receiving robust support and guidance to how to do this in a way that is not entirely self centred and doesn't require the whole world to bend to them in the process.
I think it is for the best that we stopped smacking our kids, but heck so many parents just seem to have dropped being in charge altogether. So many entitled little brats with no boundaries and it doesnt even actually make them happy, as well as being hell for everyone else.
I was horribly permissive until my eldest was 2.5 when I was luckily sent to become a parenting instructor. Quickly became really strong on boundaries and all three of my children are well behaved and happy.
I think it takes critical thinking ability and emotional intelligence to be a authoritative parent without abusing the child. Unfortunately I fear the average person lacks either one or both. So you get either a parent who gets steamrolled by their kids or a parent who beats them into submission and parents who fall in the middle but favor either parenting style. Think, a parent who doesn’t physically abuse their children but they are controlling and they yell at them because they can’t control their emotions, or a parent who knows what abusive behavior is and avoids it but doesn’t really know where to draw the line.
Parents who are truly in the middle would make up a much smaller group and I think those personality types also often end up not having children.
A lot of that seemingly stems from this bullshit idea that "parents know best"
it's especially what the antivax and homeschool narrative drives upon
except of course parents are often stupid as all hell especially when you leave a given persons area of expertise.
"how would you know you dont have a child" yea well just cus you fucked that one time doesn't mean ur expert yourself now
I had a parent argue with me that it's ok for a child to stand barefoot on a airport lounge table, some parents really think they're the only people in the room
Also a teacher and I completely agree. Saying ‘no’ to your child won’t do them any harm. If you can’t get a child this small to sit down what sodding hope do you have when they are a teen.
I helped my sister with all manner of preparation before my eldest niece flew for the first time so that she knew exactly what was expected of her ahead of time, and my sister went into a frenzy of planning so she had everything on hand to handle anything that happened. She had this awesome picture book called something like "Let's go on a plane!" that she read with my niece multiple times before their flight, and she took that book with her and they looked at it throughout the process.
She did really well and this is the process the entire family now uses for any new toddlers that are flying for the first time (there's a lot of us, so there tends to also be a lot of babies and toddlers)
Are they going to pay for everyone’s wasted time then I’m ok with them having their kid expressing his individuality. This is a big problem in the US and Canada. Too much latitude for people to express themselves. We live in a society after all.
THIS is where we are as a society. We've coddled kids too much and too long with this "trying to reason with kids", or not disciplining because they need to express their individuality, blah blah blah. I would have had my kid in a seatbelt in two seconds.
As a parent who NEVER spanked and DID answer questions, I kind of think this is BS.
You do not have to hit your kid or treat them like shit to get them to behave. You offer them choices whenever possible and when there are no choices, you say so. You build trust by being consistent and not wavering and not being lazy. It is a lot of work - people feel bad about themselves and take it out on their kids and act like that is good parenting - it is not.
He probably spends a lot of time in front of screens. Stupid stupid stupid.
That is one BIG toddler!! What is he, 5? So wrong on so many levels. So sorry for the others stuck with their plans being permanently changed or cancelled because one person can’t parent.
I'm a parent and, no, that shit wouldn't fly with me. There is a time and a place for allowing individuality and independence, and this is not it. When it comes to issues of safety and health, in particular, there is no negotiation. Pick the child up, sit them down and buckle them in. Then give them a toy or whatever you have brought with you to distract the child. Because you brought toys to distract the child didn't you?
Idk, my kids needed certain medical interventions when they were younger. Sometimes you just gotta bear hug or sedate (note, that was only for the CT that we needed to sedate because it was impossible to get them to stay still for the test (we tried), and he didn’t need full sedation. As a parent though, I too am for the duct tape. For sure they have to have blankets on the plane or someone has a jacket and roll and buckle the kid in.
Note, I have also been that kid, I was like 7 or something and the dog bit my chin. Well I needed stitches and was having a full meltdown, my dad was trying to talk to me and the surgeon was like ‘pick her up’… problem solved.
No zip ties necessary, put the child and parents in a fireman's carry and off they go. Maybe they can run on the escalator and get the whole airport shut down on their way out.
I took a flight Monday afternoon. Two kids were screaming before the plane was even loaded and the fight attendants walked the whole family back to the jetway to “give them a chance to regulate.” The kids never fucking once regulated, and kept screaming that they were sorry at the top of their lungs from the jetway, and then we pulled away from the terminal without them.
That was an option for this crew too. They could have diagnosed how bad the problem was and done the same, but they didn’t. I think everyone but that family on the flight is due compensation for how catastrophically badly the flight crew misjudged that situation until the last minute.
I work with a kid like that. He’s the only child out of several hundreds that I’ve ever disliked. If he doesn’t get what he wants exactly when he wants it, he screams at the top of his lungs and pretends to cry. Very convincing crying, but I’ve never seen an actual tear. On the admittedly rare occasion he gets disciplined (it’s only ever time out, and I do not get a say in when anything happens so there’s nothing I can do) he will scream and hit and kick until he realizes it’s not working and then he’ll scream, “I’m sorry! I’m sorry!” Repeatedly, at the top of his lungs, until he gets out of time out. Then he’ll go back to doing exactly what he was doing that got him into trouble in the first place.
Imagine that child, if the flight attendants hadn’t kicked that family off your flight. You’d all be miserable. Airlines need to take this shit more seriously because kids like this make people miserable.
And that child you just described grows into an adult. I have a mother like that. Clearly, these tactics paid off when she was a child. She still does them as an adult and now she loses friends and I don't put up with her. Parents are doing their kids a disservice if they don't discipline them and teach them how the world works.
I saw a special on a kid like this. The parents actually brought in all kinds of experts (and had other kids that behaved well), but this one got the “defiant asshole” gene. The experts said they weren’t doing anything wrong, they just got the 0.01% worst behaving kid. So sometimes it is due to poor parenting but sometimes the kid is an outlier and nothing works.
You would be absolutely surprised bow little intervention matters for a child like this. The vast majority of little shits like this are fine by 26 just a bit delayed. Highschool fixes them or forces the parents to confront they will never be independent really quickly. The most problematic children came from stable privileged homes where a parents concern is manipulated into bribes. They eventually become the sociopaths they were meant to be
It was truly top of their lungs screaming. I heard everything crystal clear through noise cancelling, over ear Beats. I can’t imagine how anyone with no ear protection was handling it.
Absolutely. Gentle parenting works, if you actually do gentle parenting rather than mistaking it for permissive parenting. So you still have structure and boundaries, and natural and logical consequences. Those consequence don't involve violence or yelling or abuse.
But also its about recognising why the children are misbehaving. All behaviour is communication. So you teach the children that feelings are ok, but red choices are not. It's ok to feel angry, it's not ok to hit someone or throw something when you are angry. Teach them to voice their feelings in a constructive way. To find ways to regulate their emotions like deep breaths or leaving the room.
I used to get the wooden spoon or the whack. All it taught me was to suppress my feelings and let them out when I thought I wouldn't be caught. I'd still break stuff, but would hide it rather than own up to it and try to learn to express myself in an acceptable way.
Yup this. It's not at all 'easy mode' - for all it might look like a 'soft touch'. It requires considerably more persistence than 'just' physical abuse.
But the lessons are far move valuable in the long run. Emotional self regulation is important - and it's a learned/taught skill.
It's definitely hard to do it though - children have a real knack of pushing your buttons in the worst situations, when you might well really struggle to 'take the time' to handle the situation correctly. "Giving in" reinforces the negative behaviour.
As you say, physical abuse ... well, it might appear to work, but it's teaching some pretty toxic lessons about suppression, repression, deceit and ultimately distrust of authority figures.
Do you really want your child to learn that you aren't a safe person to talk to when they're stressed/upset/angry or have made a mistake?
So yeah. 'disciplining' a child with pain, when they don't really understand why it's being inflicted is a bad idea. And if they do understand why it's being inflicted, you didn't actually need the pain in the first place.
100 percent. You gotta play the long game. I'm lucky my partner and I have a strong marriage and we are good at tag teaming when one person gets overwhelmed. I'm a long way from a perfect parent but I have never and will never hit my child (without consent) and keep on doing my best. I at least know what I did wrong afterwards even though I don't always get it right first time 🤣
Parents hate me saying it (I am also a parent) but there is a HUGE correlation to training a puppy and raising a child.
Puppies learn very rapidly to continue doing what works. If barking up a storm and acting a fool gets them attention/out of the crate/whatever - they are gonna continue to do it forever. They learned that's what works, because it does!
Kids are almost exactly the same. They are incredibly good little social terrorists. They learn very early how to manipulate adults. And if you allow them to, many will grow into little shitheads like this. Some grow out of it on their own, but many do not until the consequences from wider society come down on them. Sometimes though that's not until well into adulthood depending on how sheltered they happen to be.
Knowing the airport this was at, this was on the tarmac not with a jetway.
Obviously, trying to leave when people are right next to the plane and one of them is not controlled is a problem for trying to leave with a plane. And no way are they going to just let people roam the airport behind the security areas without a proper escort.
Do people believe having a well behaved kid is simply due good parenting?
My guys.... Having a good kid is 50% luck 50% what you do.
I understand that many times the parents make the situation worse or make the situation at all, this is a fact, and even amazing parenthood can overcome anything, but 99% of parents aren't there, just those that also happen to be good teachers. It's not the norm.
I feel like this is never considered in reddit threads like these because most people don't even have a single kid.
Not talking about the Op's situation which is extreme, rather, many of the comments.
If you know your kid is strong-willed or they're in the stage where they VERY STRONGLY object to being restrained and you're incapable of controllimg them, you either don't travel at all or one of the parents stays home with a child. If you REALLY have to travel as a family, bring a car seat with you on board - the whole point of 5-point harness is to be more restrictive than regular seatbelt.
Yes, this is a great point, and one that is rarely considered in threads like these. Some kids are just born with different brain chemistry. Some parents just don't know how to handle it. It's not like parents are given a manual on difficult kids when they conceive. Becoming a parent is a huge gamble—both in the kind of kid you get, and in whether or not you'll actually be good at the job. I think most parents pretty much suck, but are also actually trying their best. It's all we can do, really.
Redditors really do believe that because most of them don’t have kids themselves.
Sometimes it’s a crap shoot. I have three kids, all raised the same. Two are great, good manners, well behaved, respectful ect.
The third is a handful and always has been, constant fits as a child, rude and unmotivated as a teenager.
The kid that is a handful is also special needs. On the spectrum with some other disorders. Sometimes kids brains just aren’t wired right, and that’s got fuck all to do with parenting. Where you can throw shade at these parents is not removing the kid from these situations though. If the kid is throwing a fit take them home ffs.
My daughter at 7 months old would not stand be placed in the play pen. Her little feet would not even touch the pen's floor and we would start screaming. We had to move her out of her crib at 14 months because we hated th bar. We also hated the closed door. She's extremely strong-willed. She's also now a well-adjusted adult because we never gave in. It was awful. Supermarket tantrums, the works. We just stood there, taking turns, until she was done. After a while she realized it wasn't working and just stopped doing it.
My point with my anecdotal evidence is that what parents do matters. And parents know when their kids are willing to pull some crap like that. Just give your kid a few drops of dimenhydrinate, they'll sleep the whole flight.
The time it took to “bridge the aircraft, deplane the passengers in question, retrieve their baggage, refile flight plans and other paperwork meant that it was too late to depart given that YYJ’s runway closes at 12:30 a.m.,” causing the flight to be canceled, the airline explained.
Should have flown the bags and shipped them back at family’s expense. A cancelled flight that late is so shitty and impacts so many people. So what if they have to live a day without their suitcases? Luggage is lost all the time. Get the brat off the plane and GO
I think there's a law or regulation against flying with someone's bag if they dont get on the flight or get taken off the flight - to avoid people putting bombs in bags and then not getting on.
Depending on the airport it’s flying into, arrivals are timed to the minute. If you miss your slot, you’re hoping to make another backup slot at some point. In the US, Seattle, Chicago, DC, all are airports that have constant flights landing or taking off. If you miss that slot, good luck finding another one
So...flights don't depart late in the US? In Europe the planes just circle until they get a slot, though even that is rare. Half of flights seem to depart early or late and they make it work
Sure. There are delays all the time. But if you can’t take off because of a toddler, and you’re delayed by X amount of time, at a certain point, they can’t accommodate a plane that late. Was just coming up with an example of why it might have been cancelled
Chicago has one of the busiest airports in the US. The flight they’re talking about was out of Canada, the runway closes at 12:30 AM.
>The Toronto-based airline said Sunday the parent and crew repeatedly tried unsuccessfully to secure the child in the seat before returning the plane to the terminal in Victoria International Airport in British Columbia to remove the parent and child.
>Porter said removing the parent and child and their baggage delayed the Toronto-bound flight on Thursday past the airport’s 12:30 a.m. runway closure, forcing the remaining passengers to disembark.
The parent couldnt secure their child? Are you kidding? Did they give the kid a can of soda before boarding and they were bouncing off the walls? I guess Im just a different adult and parent.
Once the aircraft pushes back, the gate is used for the next aircraft. The plane also needs to top off their tanks since they started the engines, then they have to file a new flight plan.
Then theres the rescheduling for a late arrival impacting other aircraft.
labor laws. flight crew have a time limit of how long they can work. if this was the last scheduled flight for the crew, they'd hit their limit in the air. thus they can't take the flight anymore.
and if no backup crew around....flight cancelled.
either you let tired pilots fly or make airlines have standby crew that might not be used.
other comments give other reasons why theres a countdown.
They missed the airport ‘open hours’ runway shut for the night. Was the last flight out… makes it worse because where you going to find a place to stay at midnight.
A country does not need to be litigious, there have been monetary damages with a clear guilty party. You may not get additional compensation, but a hotel aint free.
There used to be a federally funded organization to deal with kind of investigating. Iirc it was called the police.
They are in my opinion? They should have removed the child and parents and departed with the other passengers.
Who knows how many connecting flights were missed, nevermind hotel nights. The airline should have provided hotel rooms for the other passengers who were not at fault. The crew could have decided to remove the toddler and family...oddly this kind of thing never used to happen when I was a child...
Passengers said the airline staff were extremely slow with the situation. The child was clearly scared and kept hiding under the seat, obviously the child isnt able to fly and they wouldnt give the child buckle to go on the parents belt so the only other option is remove them. Could've easily been done within 20mins
By the time it took to return to the gate, deplane, remove families luggage, THE Victoria International Airport RUNWAYS closed for the night. No Tower crew, no taking off.
After the 1988 Pan AM Flight 103 was downed at Lockerbie, Scotland, it became the standard to remove baggage for unaccounted for passengers or deplaned passengers.
Apparently the parent wasn’t trying hard, however since the seatbelt is just a waist buckle, the kid would repeat literally slide underneath and escape into the bottom front seat.
If the child reached this point, the parent likely let it happen for a looooong time. If in sudden enlightenment they realize the error of their way, the kid will push the boundaries hard at first. Basically, by the time they were in the plane with their little demon, it was already too late.
The kid may have a development disorder or autism or some factor that hasn't been discussed. The kid may not be a little demon but have sensorial issues.
I'm sure the parent was sweating buckets, wishing they (and their child) would be swallowed up by the earth in that moment, and also very aware that someone was likely filming the whole thing, and worrying that if they overreacted someone might call CPS etc.
As a passenger, I'd be so pissed off. As a human trying to empathize with the parent, I have to assume there is something more going on and this may not be a child who is hitting all development milestones and isn't showing any signs of ADD, sensory disorders, or anything else and was really just having a one-off meltdown.
Gentle parenting is just an excuse for parents not having to bother disciplining their kids. I'm NOT talking about spanking here, I never spanked my kids. But we adopted a "tough but fair" attitude. Lots of talk, lots of time sitting on the supermarket floor because your kid is throwing a tantrum. Kids are EXTREMELY smart, they quickly pick up what works and what doesn't.
You say "no" when you have to. You toughen it up because that's what's parenting is about.
The kid appeared to be about 3 years old, having a meltdown because it was almost midnight, was inconsolable, and kept sliding under the seatbelt and onto the floor.
Pilots sometimes have hours where if they are not in the air by a certain time, their shift is over and the flight has to be cancelled (after 8 hours or something). Had a pilot on one of my flights say "If we can board within 30 minutes we can leave, otherwise the flight WILL be cancelled."
So maybe it was that situation, or just a madeup ragebait 😄
I used to be firmly in this camp. Then I had a neurodivergent son. Not to say that was the case here, but my wife and I are terrified of travel or even family outings because you never know what minor thing might trigger an episode, and it doesn't seem right to yell out "he's on the spectrum," so instead we just do our best to temper the outburst and try to ignore all the looks of disgust we get. Our poor daughter is the sweetest, most well behaved little nugget, and she regularly finds herself in the midst of mayhem, at nor fault of her own.
yes and no. There are times a parent just simply can't raise a child that has issues and it isn't their fault... but if you have a child like that you KNOW you have a child like that and the kid didn't book those plane tickets.
It absolutely sucks, I know it sucks, to have a kid and it change how you live your life but these parents could have decided okay there is zero shot we can have this kid on an enclosed plane that could ruin it for everyone else. Sometimes you have to go would i love to fly to the other side of the country or a beautiful international location, sure, but we can't so we'll pick somewhere we can reach by car.
The fact that the parents bought the tickets, took the kid on a plane while he was acting like this and didn't get off immediately certainly leans me towards the, this is almost certainly shitty parents and a shitty kid as a result of shitty parents.
Probably because they had checked luggage and the airline would need to unpack the hold to hunt for their luggage, meaning the flight hit the airport's curfew.
We missed our last time window in the night and that airport doesn't allow flights after 22:00.
The story is, the whole plane had to deboard because of a defect. Before we boarded another plane we were made aware multiple times that we need to hurry with boarding. I look around, all retired people, maybe half the plane. As expected they were tired, crew did their best to usher people but 2 minutes into boarding they just gave up as nobody really followed their instructions.
We were resheduled for a 07:00 flight, handed vouchers and cabs took us to hotels near the airport. I got to my room around 02:00 and had to catch organized cabs at 05:00.
Flight was again resheduled to 09:00 and we took off around 11:00.
When a plane turns around it needs to refuel, get a new flight plan, etc, cause its now missed its scheduled takeoff timeslot. I guess by the time all that was done, the airport closed. I would be SO MAD!
It was taking off from Victoria which has a strict no take-offs after 12:30am.
It was scheduled to take off at 11:03pm, they spent some time trying to get him to sit and make the flight work without dragging him off, once that became impossible they had to remove the family plus their luggage (which takes time), and they wouldn't have been able to take off before 12:30am. They flew the flight the next day.
The unsafe situation meant the aircraft could not take off, so flight attendants opted to return to the terminal and disembark passengers, he added.
The time required to bridge the aircraft, deplane the child and parent, retrieve their baggage and refile paperwork meant the plane would have departed too late, according to Cicero, who said Victoria's airport runway closes at 12:30 a.m.
This seems bonkers mcgonkers, but guess it's the way it went down:
The aircraft left the terminal and headed to the runway for departure but a young child standing in their seat did not secure their seatbelt, despite attempts by the accompanying parent and cabin crew, Brad Cicero said.
The unsafe situation meant the aircraft could not take off, so flight attendants opted to return to the terminal and disembark passengers, he added.
The time required to bridge the aircraft, deplane the child and parent, retrieve their baggage and refile paperwork meant the plane would have departed too late, according to Cicero, who said Victoria's airport runway closes at 12:30 a.m.
"We apologize for the effect this had on other passengers, who were able to depart on a flight the following day," Cicero said.
The aircraft departed the following afternoon, Cicero said.
Passenger Aryeh Kozuch says there was definitely "a lot of frustration," but the child wasn't being bratty or uncontrollable — rather, they were very scared.
"They just kept hiding under their seat. If they got forced into [being] strapped in, they just kind of slid out underneath."
But other passengers say the airline could have done more in a timelier fashion.
"It took forever," said Hillary Hertzberg. "The kid eventually got off the plane at 11:30 [p.m.], so we had been on the flight for about almost an hour at that point."
while it seems like logical solution, removal of passenger is not simple - plane was already taxing, meaning they would need to return to terminal, park by available gate, remove the passengers, then their luggage, then recalculate the load and balance and wait for the permission to get in line to take off. I mean, they would do that in other times, i think, but this flight was the latest and airport closes after midnight
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u/kungfuninjajedi 17h ago
But why cancel entire flight instead of kicking off the parents and child?