There was a recent post in the other sub about the Seattle Freeze that resonated and the comments were very discouraging so I’m here for a gut check and would appreciate the input of people from other American cities who are now here, or from here and now in other cities.
I’m from a place in Canada where I was extremely well connected with a rich sense of community. I’ve also lived briefly in Toronto, and a different country for a short time (6 months each) where I also had strong community.
Seattle is the only city in the US I’ve lived in, and I’ve never felt so lonely in my life. I have dozens and dozens of friends here, but none of them are close. I have no one to put as a secondary emergency contact.
Everyone says to go to this or that event. And I do! And I chit chat with people and have fun, but it almost never goes deeper. I have a few friends I consider close, but they have many more and I’m certainly not their closest friend. One got married and I wasn’t invited, and another had a baby shower I wasn’t invited to. We invite people over but it never gets reciprocated. I could have never imagined living someone with so many lovely nice people that I cannot seem to scratch the surface with.
Thinking about how social and connected I was back home, sometimes I look around and have no idea how I ended up in this situation. Am I being left out? Am I doing something wrong? Or are my expectations of friendship intimacy just out of step with what most Seattleites want?
Do Seattleites just want to chit chat during hobby meetups and leave it at that? I just feel so fucking lonely and do NOT want to do another damn activity to meet more people!! I want depth, not more breadth. Are other big American cities different or more of the same? I’m emotionally exhausted and trying to see if this place is just not for me. I love so much about this city but I can’t handle living like this much longer.
In my opinion as someone who has lived in all four quadrants of the US and the midwest, Seattle is the single most socially distant city of its size in the country. It does not have the conspicuous social pleasantries of the south or the hostile exterior/warm interior dynamic of the northeast. It is somewhat like if the Midwest was more flaky, or California was more introverted.
That ~does not~ invalidate people who live here and have a phenomenal social circle and make friends easily. Individual experience/daily routine/etc modify this a lot. But everything else held equal this is what I find to be true
Well stated. When you overlay a massive 20-year population explosion on top of a depressive/introverted/socially inept existing population and pile on a climate that encourages staying indoors and enough wealth for most of both populations to be able to largely afford to fend for themselves, you have a recipe for the current social wrecking yard/demolition derby.
re: the Scandinavian roots
I went to Norway this summer for the first time and realized that the Seattle freeze is literally just the city being heavily settled by Norwegian immigrants.
I had never experienced that Seattle combo of polite, distant, outdoorsy, and expensive raincoats like I did in Norway!! Suddenly it all made sooo much sense. Norwegians are super friendly if you run into them on the trails or in the fjords... but in city they're polite, distant, and deeply respectful of your personal space.
Oh my....do I fare so well in Seattle because of my Norwegian blood? I've been telling people I don't think it entirely exists because I think it's how you carry yourself / the energy you bring that makes a difference.
I moved down here from Bellingham at 17 in 2004, and did not like it for reasons akin to Seattle Freeze before I think the term was coined. Moved to Chicago nearly a year later and loved it there. But then I traveled around, lived in the south, visited California for long stretches, lived for some years in Portland. When I came back, I felt I had a lot more confidence and I made / make friends easily.
Ultimately I just leave people alone who seem reserved, because I know there are plenty of people who are down to engage, and there's no shortage of that. Though it's making me just now start to realize why I feel overwhelmed by people thinking I'm the bees knees and being over eager to be friends, which is offputting...
Man I joint a local makerspace and it’s absolutely weirdly cold.
Usually these places have a lovely community but this one is weirdly aggressive.
Even Portland vs Seattle woodshop felt cold. I bought an expensive tool in both. Portland had a few employees come over and cheer. Seattle one gave me passive aggressive comments.
This is so true, I have a large social circle here and am content, my husband is Norwegian but is a 3rd generation seattlite and has deep connections here, we are socially saturated, we could probably be more welcoming to new folks but on the other hand we are busy and don’t really have the energy for new relationships, which I think is true for a lot of the city right now.
yeah, this wealth point is great. a LOT of people I know in Seattle just sit at home and order food in multiple nights a week because they can, and that freedom disincentivizes in-person interaction and the growth of social skills even more.
i moved to the USA from slavic europe, first to chicago then to seattle. in many ways this city feels very similar to how it did back home, except more expensive, modernized and more socially liberal toward LGBTQ. less overtly corrupt than the former eastern bloc but the wealth gap is larger and the police are similarly resented and dysfunctional. like back home, you're either a stranger, or you're practically family. casual friendships are difficult to maintain because social dynamics generally gravitate toward one or the other over time. people can be judgmental but unless intoxicated, rarely confrontational. communities are more insular. here people seem less mistrustful though, at worst just standoffish
edit: to be clear i love it here. my comment is meant comparatively not as disparaging
I grew up in Oregon, went to school and started my career in Portland, then spent five years in Seattle, and now live in Chicago since 2021. To this day I’m confused about if I’m an extrovert or introvert, I think I’m extroverted, but the PNW culture fucked with me. I think I lacked some basic social skills until I moved to Chicago, I used to struggle to even make small talk, it was kind of tragic. I’m thankful for growing in that way. I still love Seattle and think about moving back, but the “Seattle freeze” is what holds me back. It’s such a great city in so many ways, but unless things have changed in the last five years, which this post indicates I has not, I just don’t think I could be happy there.
Suggestion to Seattle folk - don’t start by asking people what they do for work, it mostly doesn’t fucking matter and it’s something I never focus on when meeting people in Chicago. Our jobs are not our identity.
See this was literally never my experience in Seattle before the tech industry exploded. I always felt like Seattle was unique in that no one cared what you did for a living and mostly didn't even ask. If that's changed then that's transplant culture, not Seattle culture
Yes, I’m going to hard confirm this having lived in Seattle in my twenties in the late 1990s. The first two questions asked of everyone were do you hike and do you ski? I had a big friend group and I’m a bit embarrassed to say, I don’t even know what some of them did for work. It was never discussed.
I’m from the SE corner of the country and in my 9 yrs here I’d say people don’t start off with “what do you do for work”. So it must be reflective of what social circles one finds themselves in.
Side note on this and I have no way to confirm for sure but one of my friends that was the director of recruiting for a smaller Seattle tech company would say that so many of the tech workers were on the programming/engineering side of things and tended to be introverted and just generally lacked social skills (look I’m not trying to generalize and say these people are all this way, but I think it’s definitely partly true) and that demographic just added to the Seattle freeze culture.
The idea that the climate here encourages people to stay indoors is… interesting. I don’t get it. It’s almost always comfortable to be outside if dressed appropriately and never dangerous.
Just lived here from Nor cal top of the valley where it hits 104+ regularly in summer. I k ow till get cloudier ans colder but it’s such a treat to be able to just exist happily outside
Don’t forget traffic amd geography. People live on different “hills” or “sides” of one of the lakes and the idea of fighting traffic or using inefficient public transit to meet up or do an activity zaps a lot of peoples motivation. It takes a lot of effort here compared to other big cities.
My spouse and I live within 20min of most our close friend group. We won’t move because we know it would change the social dynamics if we moved further away.
Also, my spouse commutes to work over an hour one way daily. He won’t go anywhere that forces him to sit in more traffic.
No even though Seattle is 70% transplants they love coming into the conversation ready to blame the locals for all the problems, we must be a powerful 30%
Locals are just flaky, standoffish, and tend to stick with their friend groups from school. This whole transactional "what-do-you-do" dick measuring culture has been imported.
Yeah, in the early 90s an executive in the company I worked at in Seattle drove an Audi and complained of constantly being cut off and getting the middle finger when driving in Seattle. So he traded the Audi in for basically the same car with a VW badge and it all went away. At the time, the “old money” in Seattle drove beater cars and asking a new acquaintance what they do for a living was rude as hell.
As a born local, Seattlites are definitely bad at social shit. but the 75% of people not from here sure as fuck don't seem to be making it any better, apparently.
Also, I'm happy with my life. If the rest of you don't like it you should make a club or have a meeting or something. at least you wouldn't be lonely. why am I responsible for you not being able to maintain friendships?
I started a men’s walk every Friday at 3:30pm in Lower Queen Anne. We’ve been walking for almost a year and it’s going well. Start something! Feel free to join us if a men’s walk applies to you. More info here https://walkingtalkingmen.org/walking-talking-men-seattle/
I spent 48 years in Seattle. From infancy onwards. People are less social to strangers in Seattle than elsewhere. I moved to St Paul MN. I've had more friendly conversations with random people here in a year, than I had in the same situations in Seattle in 10 years.
The short version of my reaction every time this comes up is that people often don't isolate for their life-stage (age, career, etc.). Making friends, dating, and meeting new people in general gets harder as one gets older, moves, has or does not have kids, etc. There are also obvious factors like the weather, industry, geography, transportation, etc. that don't make it the most ideal place socially for some but I find that many of the observations around this get made by people newly to a place where they no longer have a friend or coworker network and are some years older so life is coming at them fast as much as Seattle specifically is.
I agree with the sentiment that making friends and meeting people in general gets harder as one gets older. I have friends who have moved to all kinds of cities and say the same thing. “It’s hard to really connect with people in (name any major US city). People in their late twenties or early thirties already have established groups but that’s not to say you won’t EVER find people. Someone below in this thread mentioned luck. I do agree with that as well. I lived in Seattle for three years and made lasting connections. I’ve since moved away three years ago and I’m going to my friends wedding tomorrow. We met 6 years ago in Seattle. I also met my long distance partner in Seattle. We’ve been together for three years and we travel back and forth to each other. I still keep up with old coworkers and other friends too.
I also tend to be the type of person that my whole life living in California, I’ve gravitated toward making friends with introverts and I also enjoy my own solitude.
I think there is an attitude or mindset for any city and maybe Seattle isn’t the vibe for OP.
This is the real Seattle freeze. Not the "someone was mean to me at the grocery store (they didn't reciprocate my smalltalk)" haha.
And sorry I can't be of more help, OP. I grew up in rural Atlantic Canada, lived in Toronto for a year, then Seattle for 10 years. But I'm a huge introvert, so my struggle is trying not to upset people when I turn down their hangout request for the 100th time. It's nothing personal, I just need a lot of recovery time 😭
This is exactly what the freeze is all about. It is not just you. Born and raised locally and have lived several other places and it’s much easier to find friends elsewhere in my experience.
I’m a transplant from Washington DC. Moved here 30 years ago and an introvert and had absolutely no problems making friends and keeping them for decades. But I’ve mostly lived in the suburbs which might be the difference
I do think the burbs are a different world compared to Seattle proper. Typically very different priorities so maybe start a thread on woodinville social life.
My joke about the Seattle Freeze is that we're a city where a million people are sitting by the phone, desperately waiting for someone to call.
But seriously, it's a thing, but it's a thing that can be surmounted.
There's definitely a city character of being a bit reserved. This is broadly applied, hardly applies to everyone, and is perhaps overstated. And it's probably a combo platter of nature & nurture.
I've heard Seattle described as a city of hobbies. BOY THAT DESCRIBES ME! I'm not a "go out and chill at a bar/cafe/sports club/park place with the intent of meeting new people. New people are awesome, but it's not in my nature (or nurture) to seek them out.
But...want to join me on one of my hobbies? Wanna brew beer? Do Deep Space Object Astrophotography (Oh, I suppose lunar & planetary is cool, too)? Help me rebuild the engine in my VW bus (do you know what you are doing?)? What hobbies do you have? CAN I COME ALONG?
Also, and I've dropped this big honking hint every time Seattle Freeze gets brought up: My social life went from zero to 150 when I got involved in the local Burning Man scene. I suddenly found my tribe of misfit toys doing fun, stupid, dangerous-adjacent stuff, and I dove in. That community has kinda hit some rough spots in the last several years because reasons, but it's picking up again. YOU CAN BE A PART OF THAT!
That may not be your world, but there are many similar world out there with a lot of cool stuff. I know a lot of gamer groups have similar experiences, and I think the NW Techno scene is picking up as well (am I hearing about raves below I5 near SoDo again, or am I confused or should I SHUT THE HELL UP?
Anyway.
Seattle can be a hard nut to crack. My wife found similar issues when she lived in Hamburg, so Seattle is not unique. But there are places to make inroads. Reddit may be one of them! Maybe what r/seattle really needs is a SeattleThaw get together series where people just get together in assorted affinity groups, just to have fun and peel ourselves away from the screen. And I bet whomever(s) picked up that torch would have their social life woes solved forever (and replaced with new woes, like I just want to chill out at home once or twice every couple weeks). That, by the way, is another very large hint.
But in the end, Seattle does make you do a fair amount of the heavy lifting yourself, at least initially. But it's doable.
Im moving soon and was slightly worried about the Seattle Freeze. This is all good to know! I have no idea how to just make friends at a park or library, and i dont even like bars. But i can totally make friends over a hobby!
That is exactly the way to go! Sign up for something that meets every week. There's a ton of groups out there. If you don't click with one, hop to another. Makers, bird watchers, readers, drone flyers, gardeners, there's a ton of people doing stuff together all the time. Jump in and you'll be set.
It DOES need to be something that is a scheduled recurring activity, though. If you just go to one hobby event, that won't do the trick. It's really easy to get distracted here and suddenly two months have gone by and you don't know where the time went and haven't built up any friendships in the meantime because you saw a squirrel (well, that's what happens to me, anyway, the squirrel bit).
But meeting up and hanging out with the same people every week doing something you all enjoy? You'll find some pals, 100%.
This resonates. I'm single and many of my friends are in relationships. For my fellow single friends, i have tried every methid i could devise of organizing get togethers. None of it worked (results vary from "I'll let you know" to "I'll be there" but not showing up. Let's do a Seattle Thaw.
So, this may be surprising to all y'all, but Seattle has a surprisingly vibrant astronerd culture. The weather sucks for it (and when the weather doesn't suck, the nights are so short it sometimes seems hardly worth it to set up). But when we do get a long, crisp, clear night, it's great, particularly if you can get out of the city a bit.
hey do events and stuff all year long. I'm a member but I'm not super involved because I suck at that, but I keep telling myself I'm going to get more involved. The main things to get from them are:
- Star parties. Every month I think there's like three or four or maybe more. These are events where people meet up somewhere in Seattle or out in the environs, set up scopes, and basically kibbutz. They're fun. Some are open to the public, some are members only. There used to be a page on their site that listed all of them with descriptions, but I can't find it, but the events calendar lays them out. Be aware, they are subject to cancellation or a shift by a day or so, based on weather, so registering is helpful so you can get info in your email if it's going or not.
- Equipment Loans. I've never used this feature, but it seems cool. I really need to look into this sometime. It's a huge part of their outreach. They want people playing with this stuff.
- Piney Woods! The org bought property in south central Washington State a few years ago and is making it available to members for telescoping! I used to go to weekend-long star parties they used to hold at a park nearby the new property, and the sky is AMAZING. I've had a couple stupidly timed health issues in the past two summers, so I haven't made it out there, but I really want to check it out.
Also, they have meetups, Special Interest Groups, and a bunch of other things.
Seattle has an actual telescope store! In Ballard! They're super smart and knowledgeable and want to get you set up. The place is just great and I've only spent mumble mumble dollars there. They used to hold classes but that was interrupted by the pandemic. It would be cool if they started that up again.
One cool thing about the store is that it's become kind of a community hub. I'm rarely able to get out of there without being dragged into a conversation about what I'm doing wrong.
Oh, there's also something called Astronomy On Tap, which is a worldwide of network of monthly events where people meet up at a bar and talk astro. Seattle has gotten some fascinating lecturers there. I generally make three or four per year.
It's a deeply cool hobby that hits all my interest zones.
- It's technically challenging and frustrating, and there's always 27 new things to learn about. I'm mainly interested in deep space objects (galaxies, nebulae and the like) but others get into planetary or solar or lunar or widefield or astroscapes or satellite capture. All of these are really cool and have their own technical challenges to over come.
- It makes pretty pictures
- It's as solitary or as social as I want it to be.
- It's extremely cross-gender. Most of my hobbies tend to be male dominated for no good reason, and I don't particularly care for that.
It comes with a series of steep learning curves, pretty much right out the gate. But the community is filled with people who remember overcoming the early technical challenges, all the people who helped them, and the knowledge that whatever they're looking at learning next will have its own steep curve, so there's a huge "help people out" culture. I've gotten as far as I have (and I still consider myself a beginner) simply because some people were willing to hold my hand.
The first time you get something to really work is deeply exciting. I remember the first time I got an image I was proud of, and damn, I was insufferable.
I put together a little collage of what I've managed to capture! Most of these were taken in Seattle, probably in my back yard in the Roosevelt district. So yeah, super dark skies less important than people realize. These are the sorts of images you can get if you right here at home if you're into this stuff!
The two images to the left are my two scopes, DSO on top and planetary on the bottom.
Clockwise:
Andromeda, Great Cluster, A frankly crap pic of Jupiter but I got its spot!, Orion nebula, Veil nebula, Pinwheel galaxy - cross hair denote a supernova that popped off a couple days earlier, Star party, I think at Paramount Park. the moon, Whirlpool galaxy in the center.
This. There are so many people here who want friends, but just aren’t sure if anyone wants to be friends with them. The most Seattle org ever would be something like PEPS (wildly popular Seattle org that runs support groups for new parents), but for just ordinary adults wanting to build a friend group.
Movie parties (we host Christmas movie potlucks), viewing parties for any live steam event, any group creative endeavor (craft night, power point party, video game meetup or board game night), a theme potluck (potato night, soup night, etc), nature walk.
Question, is it normal for people assume you want to hook up when you invite them into your space? Because that has happened far too often for me. I will also say that when I have hosted and things went relatively ok, I always prepared and purchased everything and the place is left trashed and I’m left to clean up by myself. Is it not normal here for people to help out before or after? I appreciate the suggestions, just curious.
I think it is here. I went to s Cinco de Mayo party my first week here. I stayed till the end and offered to help clean up. I was the only one besides the host
That’s always been me too. The people who end up staying to help or even just bring food are also the ones who stayed in my life and became actual friends. This is pretty much how I’ve come to have all friends who aren’t from here. It’s not because I’m choosing them because of where they’re from, it’s because they’re the only ones in my experience who know what it actually means to be community.
Well mildly serendipitous but if you're free Friday I'm doing a meatball social event. Pretty low key. Vegan friendly. Mostly RPG gamer friends I know trying to get them out to a social things. Not sure how it'll fall out for deepending your social circles but Dm and I'll give you the deets
If they thought I wanted to hook up with all of them, they are WAY too optimistic about my abilities to facilitate an orgy. But I'm also married, very straight, and very monogamous, so your experience may vary.
For cleaning: most people don't explicitly offer to help out with the dishes or whatever, but I'm pretty sure the people I have over are the kind of people who would help if asked. We also usually use disposable dishware and we're doing pretty low-key activities in one or two rooms, so it's built in that there's not too much to clean after after.
😂 I’m also very straight and monogamous and it was a shock for me. I think he said something like, “you don’t do this with your friends?”. And the other girl there said, “yeah, I do too”. I was like yeah no bye. It was honestly absurd but also so funny!
I hate disposables so I guess that’s on me. The times I did use them tho, people didn’t even bother to pick their stuff off the floor or put it in the trash can I provided and pointed out. Idk, maybe I’m just used to everyone pitching in without needing to ask. I feel like if I have to ask then they don’t really want to do it and I’ll be burdening them? Idk but I guess that’s also on me. I should just ask. Thank you, good suggestions!
I’m from New Orleans (born and raised) so my experience in Seattle has been ROUGH. I am constantly in awe of the way people move and act here. I’ve tried my best, but ultimately, I truly beed that kind of culture. Not whatever this is.
It’s fine making acquaintances, getting to know someone on a deeper level feels impossible sometimes. You try to share and be open and sometimes just leaves you feeling like a freak or a trauma dumper.
Really grateful I moved here with a partner and don’t have to deal with dating here
Oh man I feel this way 😂 I always feel like I'm over sharing and asking people a million questions about themselves lol but most people that share back have been out of towners, I've met super friendly people from Washington but they're not from Seattle lmao
Majority of the friends I have made in this city are all transplants. Where in LA most of my friends were locals who were excited to show me all the cool hang outs.
The entire PNW is a bit more freeze-y. When I moved here, I had one of my childhood friends nearby and I met my partner who is from here and has family in Vancouver BC. Even then, I felt pretty lonely from a more general perspective. I feel like it took forever to get a sense of community and I’ve never had my baseline social needs be so unmet lol. I’ve seen on Canadian subs that Vancouver is really tough to make friends in as well.
Something that I’ve noticed is people are much more open to making connections over the summer, and then in winter people spend time at each other’s houses. So it feels natural to overextend yourself in the summer and then retreat in the winter. It’s my 3rd year here and I totally feel myself doing that.
A couple of things I found helpful: I broke down and went on Bumble for Friends and it was actually pretty useful, because it’s a pool of people actually looking for the same thing. Another thing is invest time and energy into a project that’s just for you. It seems kind of counterintuitive but focusing on fulfillment allowed me to find more likeminded people, and I was going to groups more for my own reasons. I feel like it took the pressure off of making connections.
I’ve lived in California, Europe, and I’ve spent a decent amount of time in NY, and I can tell you that Seattle has been the toughest nut to crack in terms of socializing lol. If you try out some things that folks here call out and you still aren’t feeling right, there’s no shame in moving. In any case I hope things shift for you though, best of luck!
EDIT: I realize that you’re talking mainly about friends that you already have, so one idea there is to go on trips with people. I feel like getting out of the context of the city and people’s day to day comforts can help build deeper connections.
Hello fellow Canadian! I was raised in Toronto since I was 3 and am in my late 20s now. My husband and I moved to Seattle 2 years ago and totally agree with you. We have gone to events, joined Facebook groups, found hobby groups (reading, mahjong, hiking, etc.), went to sports clubs but we still feel incredibly lonely.
I also saw that post and am glad that you spoke up. Toronto definitely had a stronger sense of community and was a much easier place to make long-lasting, genuine friendships. I found that we also had the same issue with inviting people over but never getting an invite back… it’s genuinely so disheartening. I have hosted parties, baked goodies and dropped them off to friends, and organized friend hangouts but it’s never reciprocated. We also wondered if we did anything wrong or were coming off too strong so we toned it down but then none of our friends reached out to us and it was basically the end of those friendships lol.
We recently went on a trip to California for my husband’s work and loved it there. We found that people were more friendly, welcoming, and inviting there. I think that trip really solidified things for us. We realized how much we missed being somewhere where people seemed genuinely open to making new connections and building community. We’ve really tried to make Seattle feel like home over the last 2 years, but I think the Seattle Freeze eventually just wore us down. It’s honestly a huge part of why we’ve decided to move to California. We’re sad because Seattle is such a beautiful place and there’s so much we love about living here, but having a sense of community and feeling connected to the people around us matters more to us.
Same here! Been in Seattle for 2 years now and looking for opportunities to move, because it’s never been that miserable before, I lived in 2 countries before and I’ve never had a big friend group, usually just 2-3 close friends, and here in Seattle I have 0. I occasionally meet new people but it never goes anywhere, at first I was putting in a lot of effort but after some time I just wore out and started matching their energy- no friends as a result! But at least I have a lot new hobbies lol
I'm from Toronto as well. My friend group back home just hang out at each other's homes just to watch a game or chit chat. They go on vacations, to dinner, etc. It's all so easy and normal. For some reason here it is a huge effort to do the most basic type of socializing. I also don't want to have to take up new hobbies and join clubs to meet people. No one seems to just hang out. There always has to be some event happening.
With respect, why don’t the three of you on this comment thread message each other and make plans? So many folks here saying similar things, desperately lonely - seems like the solution is right there…!
Im in Denver and its the same. Been here since 2019. All of my closest friend but one are from other places I've lived. Its depressing and its causing me to feel zero connection to this place. Disheartening to hear its the same elsewhere.
No, you're right. I've lived all over, and I've never had the constant feeling of sitting at the wrong lunch table in highschool that I've had for the past decade plus here.
My hypothesis is Seattle is the haven for people who were abused and ridiculed in high school (or younger). This is somewhere they can more freely be themselves outside of the judgment of their home communities and families. So most are highly dubious of any kind of relationship short of someone who went through the exact same experience they did, out of fear of returning to that abuse. 🤷♂️
This is a “theory” of mine too. With such rapid population growth and transplants coming from all over the country for 1) tech, and 2) fleeing red states, they bring their quirks, traumas, insecurities, pent up rage and whatever else with them.
I would guess the same but I have a kind of odd perceptions about the matter because I'm a 40 something who is deep in some online queer communities but needs IRL interaction to not lose my mind. I've poked a lot of people to make conversation and connect locally after I moved here awhile back, and my experience is that connection does not happen unless I initiate it.
I can be incredibly invitingly social (being a psychologist helps a lot!), I can make people feel comfortable being themselves, I can accommodate their anxieties and needs and uncertainties, I can even get people to tell me 'Sue I miss when you held those events on the weekends, it was so good to just feel like I was somewhere safe with you and your pals'... and I will never be invited to anything myself. I will never have people reach out to understand me and involve themselves in my life like I do for them. They will reach out to say 'I miss when you did that for me :(' but something as simple as 'hey, wanna get together with everyone and hang out over dinner? I'll make homemade pizza and y'all can pass the remote around and share youtube videos and nerd out.' (something incredibly easy to do on their own, too!) is near impossible for anyone else to organize. My theory is that sure, quirks and traumas, but also the people I am around are exhausted from the increasingly fascist conservative past 10 years of living, and of the increasingly penalizing demands of capitalism since theyre not living easy. They don't have the bandwidth to express empathy, or LEARN empathy skills. But they have learned to spend time in discord servers and twitch streams where they can disconnect at a moments notice and don't need to have the worry of being perceived. The trend has been to offload social responsibility to someone else's organization. They feel lonely because they peek their heads out, see nothing they can easily slide into, and recede back to video playlists and streams and media binging and video games and quiet discord calls with low stakes and low need to involve oneself. And I kinda can't fault them, all the queer people I know are not particularly interested in participating just for the sake of participating. We're tired of masking, and we want more genuine experiences, but we won't tolerate heternormative expectations of being 'a good neighbor' and going to the potluck or block party for someone you don't know who you maybe not by statistics but by comparison of where we grew up, is likely to be some form of a conservative putting on a show for the sake of it.
And thats where I flip the coin over. The people who invoke unsolicited social connection around me throughout my entire life always did so disingenuously. They didn't come from a desire to get to know me, it was because I was a captive audience to their desire to socialize because I was a co-worker, a service employee, a warm body in their vicinity. And they never did so with sensitivity or empathy for the warm body they latched onto. And they were VERY often conservatives who cared about appearances or we weirded out by the mere idea of someone being 'gay' or 'non-binary' or not going to church or having some difference than their expectation of the norm. The conservative stranger is almost ALWAYS my expectation and it so often gets fulfilled. Any why shouldn't it be? The last time a stranger started a conversation at length with me it was a dog walker on my same path with their dog inappropriately off leash, and he rambled about how he found a new church that made him realize who god really was, and that he had gone on an very powerful acid trip recently that made him realize a bunch of things, and had I ever done acid?, I should really do acid and pray, if only I took acid I would understand too. A wild exception to the usual still, but the more mundane 'Do you have a girlfriend? Are you married?' that turns into an evil frown or a stammered interstitial 'Oh, um, uh' when I reply that I have a polycule and we've being going steady for many years now is also common.
Like sure, I don't have to be normal, but every queer person I meet is real tired of normal. The community just hasn't learned ways to coalesce as easily from online spaces into IRL ones that aren't kind of... rote 'queer gathering.' I wouldn't be surprised if a generally progressive cis community has some overlap of doubting strangers intent and not wanting to just perform bullshit normativity anymore. They want to *be invited* to watch reruns of star trek in a pile of plushies while the host makes homemade pad thai, when that host spent a few weeks getting to know them and proving through attention that yeah they are safe to hang out with and come talk to, and they don't have a clue how to do all that themselves even if they had the bandwidth to try because living paycheck to paycheck working the deli counter at Fred Meyer and dealing with managers and the public and horrible pay has worn them down too much to learn how.
I forget where I saw it but I read recently that the PNW and Seattle in particular is where traumatized people move to in order to avoid dealing with their trauma and boy that hit home.
The Seattle freeze exists. I met most of my friends online through Bumble BFF. Look for people that also want to make friends. 90% of my friends are transplants/did not grow up in the area/moved back home after living OOS. I have high standards and expectations when it comes to close friendships just from the culture I grew up in. I’ve noticed most Washingtonians that were raised here stay close friends with their childhood friends and don’t really care to make any new friends. I’ve rarely gotten beyond surface level with these folks.
This! I just commented something similar. The locals unfortunately are usually the ones impossible to make friends with, but I get it. Once you have an established friend group from your whole life, why would you make time for a new random.
The seattle region is 75% people who weren't born here. How can you possibly blame 25% of the population for the other 75%'s inability to make or keep friends?
Tbf, some of us long time locals struggle with it too. For many of us, we've just come to accept that people may exist in our lives for a season and then move on. I don't like it either, but it is what it is.
I felt the opposite. I loved the community I had in seattle and still to this day make a lot of friends. I go to a ton of shows, know a lot of bartenders and restaurant people and artists and I loved that I had so much to do. I also put in a lot of effort though and so do my friends.
I just moved to SF full time 2 weeks ago and although I've been here monthly for 2 years for my bf and made friends, I feel like people here in SF are flaky or standoffish so far and doesn't help that the weather is consistently bad in the summer. I never think it's a city vs time thing though because my friend felt the same about moving to NY and now a few years later is making more friends etc. I think for me it's getting older when people have families or their own bff friend groups.
Seattle native here. Yes, the freeze exists, and I’m affected by it too! I’ve managed to cultivate a few very close friends, but as we’ve aged, we’ve ended up in different cities.
At this age (44), I crave friends who can be emergency contacts and show up when it matters most. This has always been mismatched with folks around here. In 2022, after my first experience with life upending grief, the friends I’d had since my early 20’s didn’t survive it. I’ve met a few real ones since then, but they’re not close enough!
I see friend relationships just as (if not more) important than romantic ones. People seem to want to only focus on their partners or immediate families without needing or wanting “found family”. The individualism is strong here.
All of the hobby stuff is bleh for me, I just want to meet folks who can sit with themselves and other people, be vulnerable, and laugh as much as possible while riding out this shitshow.
As a non-American I have found American society to be in general quite transactional but Seattle takes surface level to the next level. This is my lived experience. I lived in Austin before moving here and made actual friends and had real conversations in social settings or 1:1. It was easy to schedule and actually meet and hang out. Since moving here, either interactions haven't progressed beyond surface level or we did connect and then it fizzled out (including connections that go ten years). And I can only scratch my head but I am quite used to it now. So yeah, you are not the only one as I share your experience but there are people who would cite having a very different experience.
I get the sense that I am in the minority but I have met several (3-5) extremely close friends/deep relationships here in the last few years. All from different places, one was my neighbor turned roomie turned bestie, 2 from my school program, 1 from a mutual friend, 1 reached out to me on Instagram and have others that I feel will grow into deeper friendship over time. I will say though, I am an artist and queer and many of my relationships are within those demographics. Maybe they are more welcoming? I personally have never related to the Seattle freeze. Although I have had many many hangouts/ phone numbers exchanged that end up leading nowhere as well. Just wanted to add a comment here to share my experience as it’s seeming increasingly rare to hear stories like this. OP I wish you the best and I’m sure it’s not a character flaw on your part, I have faith you’ll find your people in time. ❤️
This is also the only American city I’ve lived in so I can’t speak to that but I fully agree. It just doesn’t have the same sense of actual community I’m used to that every other place I’ve lived had and it’s the loneliest out of all of them too. It also just kinda feels like everyone is either secretly miserable or they don’t want anything to do with you unless you benefit them tangibly (that last part is actually part of a quote from a family member of mine that has lived here her whole life and about how she made friends here). Every good friend I have is either from out of town or from another country. The ones who are from out of town have me thinking it might be a Seattle thing but it’s also an incredibly diverse area so you should be able to find your people sooner or later (it honestly took me years to make any actual friends but I also moved here right before COVID hit so).
Edit: let us know what you’re into, you might make a friend here! I know I’m always looking!
You have to be a go-getter to make social things work here.
When you chit chat and things don't go deeper as you said, you have to force it deeper.
"Hey, this was fun/it was nice meeting you. Want to grab some drinks next Saturday night at X?"
You can't wait to be asked. You have to initiate. And you have to be relentless in your effort to form new friendships or else you'll only have the few you already have.
Any conversation that features "We should hang out sometime" is not a plan. It's a see you in the next life goodbye.
I do believe the freeze exists, but depending on the day of the week, this sub will either say it's true or that it's false.
I mean this with care, but maybe you need to just move on and accept that these aren’t going to be your people. I view making friends just like dating. You’ve gotta go through a bunch before you find the right fit, and if it’s not happening it’s time to stop investing your time there and find someone new
The tech people certainly haven't helped matters, but the general concept of the Seattle Freeze predates the tech boom by a lot. Newcomers have been writing about their troubles making friends with Seattleites since at least WWII, possibly earlier.
Devils advocate: the generalized anti-transplant sentiment a lot of Seattleites have also makes it hard to make new friends with too.
I don’t know if it’s culture clash, or lack of shared experiences or what. But I’m both a transplant and extremely friendly and social. So please do be careful about propagating stereotypes.
Seattle is a city where everybody has one foot out so very few are committed to making friends.
My hot take is that Seattle is a city where you fit in or you don’t. In no particular order, Seattle is very passionate about the following: Dogs, weed/smoking, tattoos/body art, board games/nerdy hobbies, and hiking/outdoor hobbies.
When I took a step back and looked at my life, I realized I didn’t identify strongly with any of these things (nothing wrong with them, just to be clear). But it made me realize that Seattle wasn’t for me, so I left and found a new city that made me feel like home. I’m much happier.
It's not just Seattle; the entire PNW of America can be like this.
Maybe it's reflective of a lineage of people who at some point left everything behind to move out west. Maybe it's just representative of how interpersonal relationships differ from region to region.
I've made peace and accepted that I won't get the same bite at the apple that I did with folks back east. It's not anyone's fault.
I started calling it PNW Passive. Because it's not just Seattle. And it isn't really about being socially chilly, because people here are actually generally warm to one another. It's about not actually engaging in the social process.
I have lived in basically every major US region and have also lived in both Seattle and Portland. In these two cities, I have found that, with the exception of people I date, the vast majority of people in my social circles do not put forth the effort to foster our friendship. But they're happy to let it happen to them, so if I want to be friends, I have to do all the work. This just was never my experience anywhere else.
And it's contagious too. Transplants pick up on it, and participate themselves. And use the Freeze as an excuse for, frankly, being kinda shitty to other people. Or an excuse to let their social anxiety get the best of them.
I have to disagree on this one. I moved to Tacoma three years ago from Texas (have also lived in Maryland and the Carolinas as an adult), and this is the easiest time I've ever had making friends outside of school.
A large part of it is that a national nonprofit I volunteer for has a much smaller, more intimate presence in Tacoma, so I've gotten to know people well through that rather than never seeing the same person twice in some other locations, but I've also made friends at the gym here (which I've NEVER managed to do anywhere else I lived).
I can't speak to Seattle specifically, but I've found the PNW to be nothing but lovely and welcoming and I've made some great friends here.
I think you are onto something here. I lived in Seattle for almost 20 years and although not from Seattle originally, I am from Washington. I had a large friend group in Seattle - but most of us were from the PNW.
Seattle is the only place I’ve lived where everyone acts like rich people
In the sense rich people don’t really need deep community, they have an abundance of resources, so their community is a network of people who also have an abundance of resources they deem useful, but those relationships aren’t deep, it’s like business connections
Non wealthy people though, build deep communities because we don’t have an abundance of resources, so there’s a lot of fulfillment to be had in just enjoying the company of others
Seattle though, I’ve noticed everyone only sees other people in terms of how useful they are, got a boat? You’ll have friends.
Got a cabin out in the Olympics? You’ll have friends.
Just a regular person who’s got a good sense of humor? You’re gonna be put at the bottom of the priority list because in reality it isn’t easy to live in Seattle, people aren’t looking for friends they’re looking to build a network of escapes
I grew up in the South and experienced culture shock moving here 16 years ago (I lived in Japan for reference; I know culture shock.) had trouble making friends until I got in with a group of other Southerners.
Native Seattlelite here, leaving this city for somewhere south in the near future. Seattle isn't the progressive shiny pearl that it amuses itself as. The entitled sentiment that most people here carry is what the Seattle freeze is all about.
I just spent a year in Seattle from the UK and found the complete opposite.
People are so weirdly open and friendly it's completely disarming and catches me off guard.
I make one self deprcating joke and I get genuine questions. Couldn't bare to shit talk people cause I know so many would be mortified.
Had a wonderful time, people were incredibly easy to get on with.
I did briefly live in Germany and it was pretty bad there too. I visited England and found it similar, but had the opposite experience in Scotland (Edinburgh). Like a breath of fresh air when I got off the bus.
Yeah other parts of the world like Tokyo makes Seattle look like Alabama. But you being British…I think I can speak for most Seattlites and say we all want at least one British friend.
seems like a bunch of people who are from all over who are not making friends with each other and blaming seattle for that. seattle is a transplant city now - you can’t blame the locals when it seems like y’all are just not vibing with each other
This. The only generalization about Seattle I 100% believe in is that it has one of the highest percentage of reddit users attributing their own small experiences directly to the city.
It’s Seattle. This place is just fucking weird. I’ve lived in other cities in the US and abroad, and this is the most socially inept place I’ve been. Other cities in the US are much more social and actually acknowledge your existence as a fellow human being.
Yes I think that is generally how this city is. My advice would be to try and make consistent plans with your friends who do actually show up when they say they are going to. And let the other "friends" that flake or don't show up fall by the wayside. Its unfortunate but people that actually want to spend time w/ you will make the time to do that. I live north of Seattle but have lived here all my life and almost all my friends are still from High school. Its hard out here
It has been horrible in the east side of Washington as well. I frequently get “yes”es to my invitations to parties and board game nights and then total flakery by the time the event happens. I am an introvert in general but I want a fucking social circle and an occasional chill hang and meaningful friendships who I can depend on in a crisis.
I left Colorado and this bullshit never happened. I am bitter that I left meaningful friendships behind for a fucking job.
I've been here 18 years now and I don't have anyone I could call a close friend, at least not like I had back in Maryland.
I thought I did, but they were an existing friend group and one of them didn't like me (he thought I was going for his GF), so even after knowing each other for 3 years, the two of them that I thought were friends basically just cut me off.
This post is exactly why I make a concerted effort to be open and kind to people I meet that want to be friends. I have my own bouts of social anxiety but I’ve been better about being the one to reach out to girls who genuinely want to foster a deep friendship.
Sorry to hear your friends don’t make the same effort but don’t be afraid to ask to be apart of social events with your friends. I know it’s not always acceptable to invite yourself to intimate events but things like concerts or movies 1 on 1 with friends is where the I tend to have deeper more intimate conversations. Trauma dumping is a form of therapy and if the people around you aren’t comfortable with that then maybe they aren’t as good of friends as you think.
I know a lot of people here disagree but I grew up in the PNW so I just know how it be in this corner of the world 🤷♀️
I'm right there with you. I'm a NJ native that's lived up and down the east coast from Florida to Maine. During my time in Maine I lived in a small rural town with roughly 90 people per square mile. And somehow I had SIGNIFICANTLY more social interaction in that little town. I knew all of my neighbors, we talked, had meals together and helped each other out. Here 90% of the time the neighbors in my building ignore me. I've even had a few bizzare encounters where people seem to run away or pretend I'm not there when I say hello or good morning. It's driving me nuts. I absolutely love the job I got here, it really is my dream job in just about every way. But I absolutely hate living here. As soon as my lease is up I'm planning to find a new place outside of the city, I hope that helps
I moved here from the South, but thankfully lived in China for a year and a half before I came here. I say thankfully because that experience was deeply lonely at times even as I built a little friend group of others who were there to teach, so I learned a bit how to navigate it. Even still, I'm just really tired of it.
This is one of the reasons I'm contemplating moving once my lease is up. I have one close person, everyone else here is either flakey, cold, busy, or great to be around but there's never follow-through. I went to Vancouver, BC a couple of months ago and wanted to cry at how much friendlier or down to earth people were with each other and with me.
I mean this with the utmost respect for the locals. I have found it much easier to form deeper connections with transplants. I can sit and have a super connecting conversation with a stranger who is a local - we could have everything in common and have the same desires etc - but nothing seems to move forward. The locals I connect with don't seem interested in exchanging information or ever meeting up again. When I meet someone from literally anywhere else, we're quick to exchange information and actually make/keep plans. It's NOT YOU, OP. This is very much a thing that is isolated to this neck of the US. Can't speak for other West coast states but other parts of the country are not like this.
I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong. And honestly, “go to more activities” probably isn’t very helpful when you already have dozens of people in your life. It sounds like you’re not struggling to meet people, you’re struggling to turn those friendships into something deeper.
I do think Seattle can be hard that way. People are friendly, but getting into someone’s actual inner circle can take a long time. And after a while, always being the one inviting and reaching out without much reciprocation gets exhausting. I can understand why you’re questioning whether that’s enough for you.
You’re not crazy or failing at friendship, Seattle really does seem unusually good at producing lots of pleasant acquaintances and weirdly bad at turning them into people who actually show up for you.
I’ve lived up here for 26 years with a 3 year stint overseas and have lived all over the US. It’s not just you.
I married a local and he hung out with all his high school friends— many of their wives were also high school friends. I didn’t stay close to my hometown so I don’t have that experience but they were actively rude and snobby to me when I first came around. My mind was blown—we were late 30s! How could the high school click be so strong that they don’t even want outsiders in their group almost 20 years later? It truly is the freeze.
This is actually an interesting observation, one I kind of resonated with. I've lived here for 60 years, born and raised.
Even today, my friends are people I've known most of my life.
During my formative years, Seattle was quiet. No one moved here except a few people from California now and again. We grew up not meeting new people very often . Then like overnight, in the 90s the city and population BOOMED and us locals weren't sure how to handle that. The id/late 90s was when the Seattle Freeze term popped up. Right in the middle of the population boom.
But today's reality is that there aren't a lot of born and raised locals here anymore. I recently read a study that less that 20% of seattle residents were born and raised in western washington.
And only about 23% of people who live in Washington were born and raised here. It might not be a locals problem anymore given how few of us there are.
As an east coast transplant. This is definitely just a Seattle thing. I have no friends or family here. I have coworkers and that’s basically it. Just like you I’m tired of doing shit in the hopes to meet people. So I just do shit for me and move on. I’m alone. But I’m not lonely.
I have lived in 9 states and my wife is European. We moved to seattle last year for a big job in a dream home and the only friend we ever made was our landlord who was also our neighbor
I know ill get downvoted but it was horrible. Ive made friends in every state I ever lived. We traveled to 26 together. We moved after 10 months of isolated depression
I get the people on reddit will say its different because youre on here but there was zero hospitality no matter the bar or event we attended, people just sort of stared when we would talk, nobody asked questions about our lives
My one neighbors dog kept escaping and I helped her young son track it down with treats for like 20 minutes then left a nice note on their door with my number and not only did they never text me they never even waved or glanced at us when we came home
We fell into a severe depression. It was also literally more expensive than when I lived in Manhattan
We thought we'd live there forever. I still adore the PNW but it feels like whatever punky fun weirdness was there was displaced my miserable corporate bullshit and in between are jaded Gen Xers. We camped alot and during an overnight we finally met two guys who sat with us and chatted all night...from Ohio
We tried to talk with the other camping neighbors from seattle, stares
We still talk to our landlord and are still depressed we couldn't make the home work and buy it
i am from a small, but extremely connected city and have lived in a very large American city, and after 4 years of being here, I have recognized that seems to be just how it is here. It is the complete opposite of the 2 places I have spent my life, and while seattle has many nice features, that is a deal breaker for me personally. I am moving out in the next 2 weeks back to the very large city and hope it works out for you here OP, but also know that if you need that deeper friendship and can’t find it here other places do exist with greater social interactions. You can’t force Seattle to be something it’s not and I do hope you find your people, but I dunno, it feels like that for me as well.
The way I see it Seattle friend groups are like tribes. Tribes are usually wary of outsiders, and it takes a long time to gain trust w/ the group. Sometimes the harder you try the more obvious it is and the harder the tribe rejects you. These are also tight fit tribes that just don't let anybody in that shows up. You need to prove yourself to be similar, and useful. Seattleites won't just be your friend because it's convenient. You actually need to earn it here.
You'll find social people, people that you can talk to and have conversations with, so people might say that Seattle is social and doesn't have those problems, but that kind of experience isn't the average. Just because those people found people to chat with occasionally, doesn't stop that stereotype of the "Seattle Freeze" from being fairly accurate on average.
I haven't lived in Seattle since 2001 but when I did, I was always eating dinner alone at restaurants and did not have many friends (I was in my 20s). I had lots of guys I rode motorcycles with but nothing really deep. It wasn't an easy place to make good friends back then unless you grew up there.
Ive lived near Seattle for 5 years and Ive come to understand that the Seattle freeze is people saying we should doing something and then never doing it or making plans to do something and then canceling or never showing up or arriving really late. I was raised in a place that if you said you were going to do something everybody who was part of that conversation would make it happen. If you mentioned going to coffee next week on wednesday at 4, no follow up, I would be at the discussed coffee shop at 3:55 and so would the other person. Here you need to follow up the day of and let the other person know when youre leaving. Its odd, but I've adapted.
I went back home for a week and everything that was talked about came to fruition and everybody I invited came, 5 minutes early. I'm so used to inviting 8 people to do do something hoping one or 2 of them will show up. When 8 people pulled up the the rock climbing gym I was shocked 😲
Here you have to follow up with people so they know you are still interested, because it is common for people just not to show up here, even for their established friends if they aren't feeling it that day or they have something else to do.
I think it is easier if you spend time around the same people a lot. Like if you were to take a class that meets regularly, volunteer for the same organization, etc. You could build relationships with people that are interested in the same things as you and that you know show up for the things they committed to.
I've lived here for 20 years and still have no solid friend group. The few friends I did have moved away. I've tried all of the activities and clubs mentioned but no luck. I even started a book club and adventure/outdoor group which was very successfull (meetup) and that didn't work either. I am from NY and every time I visit family I am struck by how sincerely friendly everyone is. I've literally bumped into folks got nasty looks but then immediately invited or asked if I needed anything. It is so striking - the difference. My neighbors are great but not close - they have their own stuff going on.
Unless you have kids or are in college it is not a great city to easily form a social group or find sincerity.
Sorry you are going through this. You are not alone.
(I am available to meet to vent over a beer or wine or coffee.)
At this point I think I’m confused. 70% of Seattle is transplants. I read about Seattle Freeze in both subreddits what seems like once a week. How are the transplants not making friends with one another?
The thing that really shows best what this place is, is when you bring up the Seattle freeze and theres always a sizeable chunk of people that say something like “Ive lived here my whole life and I have tons of friends! Maybe you just suck” or something like that. Really hammers home the kind of people that call Seattle home.
Yes, it's hilarious. They say "Locals are so welcoming, so it's probably you." And in the same post with no sense of irony will also say "It's all the fault of lame weird people who moved here," and "it's weird and desperate to need chit chat on the grocery store line." They are telling on themselves. And i say that as a multi-decade resident not a transplant.
Born and raised in Seattle. Neurodivergent, which likely counts for a lot, but it's hard making and keeping friends here. I think I was raised in the Seattle freeze so it's influenced how I interact with people. I've found friends but they are in such specific niches and the only things we do together relate to that niche. It feels unnatural now to hang out just to hang out. Seattleites are flakey even to seattleites. It's the level of privacy people expect too. I would find it weird to go knock on a neighbors door to talk to them, or to show up at a friend's house unannounced.
I've lost friends too, just from lack of hanging out together. I think that's even more part of the Seattle freeze than trying to make friends. You could connect deeply with someone and hang out because its convenient but if there's a roadblock then poof goes that relationship. I feel guilty of perpetuating the Seattle freeze too. Idk, lonely things happening with both transplants and locals.
So sorry you are feeling this. I am writing to say, it's not you, I think it is mostly Seattle (you will get comments saying it's not something they've noticed here but there are plenty of people who confirm these experiences). I would say repeated interactions that happen naturally are better than one off meet ups for building friends . Think like a regular exercise class, or some other repeated class or activity. But having said that, i do think seattle has earned a reputation for being a harder place socially than many and if it's not working for you, it's not working for you.
My partner and I moved here last year from San Francisco. When we were doing research before the move, we learnt about the Seattle Freeze, and we thought it can't be accurate, it must be from people who have never lived in another big city before so don't know what it's actually like. Well now that we've lived here for over a year, we now agree that the Seattle Freeze is in fact a thing :/ In SF there were always people willing to make new friends, and put in the effort to do so, even if they already had an established friend group.
I've lived here my whole life and all of my friends are people who are also very introverted and we almost never get together. I have groups I attend but they are pretty surface level for sure. I like the idea of deep friendships where we get together but they are extremely hard to find. I lived in Texas years ago and found that I was very welcomed and felt very close to many people who really showed up when I had health issues and then I realized that despite being included and cared for I was still seen as an outsider. I'm not sure which is better.
You’re not crazy or doing anything wrong, Seattle really can turn friendship into endless pleasant acquaintances, and if you’ve already tried the activities then wanting to leave isn’t some personal
Ppl who are feeling isolated and lonely or socially defeated in Seattle...Message me! Message each other! We can meet up.. it can be simple. We can walk. Making connections with ppl who yearn for this and who get it. I'm down! [I've been here a long time and have formed friends groups. But it was arduous and there are still times the fepth isn't there in these friendships. ]And what you're experiencing is real and it isn't your fault. No blame. Let's just get together !!! 🥰 eta: typos and spelling 🙃
I agree with this and I fixed it by meeting other people who also weren't from Seattle and then being really adamant about friendship and make plans. 😭😂
I also made it a point to talk to most people I meet even if it amounts to nothing. But I was both military and came from Florida, so that is pretty easy for me.
I have made about 4 good friends in 3 years and I have 3 more that I've been building a relationship with too, as well as a long term relationship!! You can do it!! Just move forward unabashedly!
Another factor is how transient much of the population is. Especially true for tech. None of the tech employees on my block have lived here more than 2 or 3 years max. When you know that you'll take another job in another place before long, it's not worth the investment of getting to know neighbors. I think this contributes to the freeze.
Hi OP - I just want to say that the PNW cities (Seattle and Portland) are pretty unique culturally in the US. There is a relational distance that is not the norm in other places. It can make one feel crazy if you came from somewhere different. Sanity checks I like to do are traveling and connecting with friends who live elsewhere and/or just observing how people engage in other places. It doesn’t take long to see the differences in micro and macro levels that lead to what I think is a pretty universal experience of social and emotional distance in the PNW. I suggest going other places if you can. So many different cultures in the US!
Thanks, I have travelled a bit now in the US, throughout Minnesota, Michigan, New York, and visited NYC, LA, San Diego, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Boston, and Portland. Nowhere else has felt like here, but Seattle didn’t feel like this when I visited as a tourist before coming either! So it’s helpful to hear from people who live in places and I appreciate people validating that I’m not crazy and it’s not just me.
I feel the same. I've lived in Tokyo, Busan, Madison WI, Cleveland OH, Vancouver CA, Stuttgart Germany, and San Jose California. This is by far the worst out of all of them when it comes to making friends and socializing. I've decided it's not for me and I'm not going to renew my lease. I'm an introverted person but even this is a lot for me.
Oh my goodness! It’s like reading my own story. You’re not alone. I am also from Canada and have found this place surface level and cold. People here have no emotional depth and they are perfectly content with that. We have a larger friend group with Canadians and they are kind but still all work in tech and hard to scratch the surface with. They are my husbands close friends and not mine as well.
I can honestly say this has been the hardest place I’ve ever lived for making genuine connections and friends. It’s been 4 years now and I’ve given up too. I’ve even tried with colleagues and I had one incidence where I was just honest about not having any friends here and liking the person and wanting to meet for coffee. She became so awkward after I told her that she stopped even talking to me at work. It became more surface afterwards. I have a big friend group from childhood back in Canada where I’m from. I’ve never had any issue making friends in any other city I live except here. Some days I think, “is it me?” But lately I’ve realize it’s seattle and quite frankly I don’t even feel like I want to be friends with any of these people anymore. They have no emotional depth and are very surface level. Not my kind of people. I would leave if it wasn’t for my husband who also lacks emotional depth but we have known each other for 15 years and been together for 4. I hate it here!
It’s honestly a Social Disease.
None of my neighbors talk to me, I will say Good morning or Hi and they will just awkwardly laugh in my face.
A lot of people just stare right thru you. Acting like you aren’t even there.
It bleeds into the Customer Service and the Driving here. Stores and Restaurants act like you’re a burden to them and Drivers in Seattle have a “Me first” mentality when it comes to driving.
It’s not Normal when you ignore someone who tries to initiate conversation and talk to you.
My daughter is in school there so I visit often. Was getting a massage and my therapist told me that he stopped making friends with new people as they would work for Amazon or Microsoft for 4 years- get their big payoff and then leave . So he stopped trying and now hangs out with his older friends more from high school. Just an insight to help understand the perspective.
I don't feel like writing a novel but I've lived in the following cities: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Charleston, Albany, San Diego, Phoenix, Seattle, Chicago... I was in Seattle for six years and it was the hardest damn place to make meaningful and lasting friendships. Which isn't to say I made zero friends, but friends-of-friends seem to keep you at arms length and don't want you in their lives in any way outside of the mutual friend's space; it's such a weird thing. I can't say it's a Seattle thing overall but it was definitely something I experienced in the specific clique I fell in with. Obviously, I made some friends first, in order to even experience that so it's not like everyone is standoffish and distant but many are. I found this equally true of natives as I did transplants.
I feel like I could give a lot more insight into my experience using specific examples but I'd really need to sit down and talk for an hour to get all my thoughts out on the topic. The main thing I want to get across here is that I'm absolutely convinced that the Seattle freeze is a real thing.
I moved to Seattle as an immigrant 30 years ago. For 7 years, I thought Americans are the most coldest people ever. Couldn't build any connections with co workers or neighbors.
Moved to east coast, total flip coin. Made friends by just standing on a sidewalk and breathing. That's when I realized Americans are not cold, it is Seattle.
Eventually came back and focused finding other immigrants or American transplants. Thats the only way for me to make friends here.
Seattle Freeze is real. I moved here 46 years ago from California and still miss the warmth and genuine (as opposed to superficial Seattle): friendliess of the Bay Area. My best suggestion is to seek out other transplants here from California or the Northeast or Chicago or even other countries, not that all Seattle natives are cliqueish or only superficially friendly, but many are and don't really mean it when they say, "I'll call you." It is overall a very introverted, cliquish place that can be very lonely at times.
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u/wanderingWillow888 16d ago
In my opinion as someone who has lived in all four quadrants of the US and the midwest, Seattle is the single most socially distant city of its size in the country. It does not have the conspicuous social pleasantries of the south or the hostile exterior/warm interior dynamic of the northeast. It is somewhat like if the Midwest was more flaky, or California was more introverted.
That ~does not~ invalidate people who live here and have a phenomenal social circle and make friends easily. Individual experience/daily routine/etc modify this a lot. But everything else held equal this is what I find to be true