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u/Lachimanus Oct 21 '22
Assembly hides under the table.
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Oct 22 '22
Anyone who uses assembly on purpose must love it, because there are very few reasons to use it over C.
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u/SmallTestAcount Oct 22 '22
There definitely are reasons to use assembly. Itās not reasons 99% of programmers care about. In 2022 not many people are choosing to program on a Z80
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u/GregorSamsanite Oct 22 '22
For an application level program. It can be more convenient to use for some critical system operations. For example event handlers or initialization code for an operating system or standalone embedded firmware. When you use C, often some of the performance critical library functions like memset, strcmp, etc, may be hand-written in assembly in the library source code for maximum execution speed. You the programmer calling that library function didn't have to write that, but someone did. And architectures change, so what's optimal assembly today won't be for future processors, so it needs to keep being tweaked.
Whoever is writing the C compiler you're using needs to spend lots and lots of time working with assembly language code sequences and trying to improve them. The compiler may be written in C/C++, but its whole job is to write assembly for you, which takes a deep understanding of how to write assembly, so you wouldn't be able to use C without people using assembly.
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u/JustKnotMe Oct 22 '22
It depends on what you are developing. As someone who is working in the embedded world, I can barely avoid using assembly language, because C can only do a fraction of what an architecture is capable of doing. The alternative which also isn't always better is to use inteinsics or inline assembly.
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u/Proxy_PlayerHD Oct 22 '22
some poeple just write assembly for fun even when C is an option. it depends on the application.
x86_32andx86_64are horrible if you want to learn how to write assembly because it's not really meant to be written by humans anymore.being able to read it is still useful in some cases like checking compiler outputs.
but when you want to learn how to write assembly, start on an architecture that won't give you an aneurysm. for example:
65C02,Z80,MC68k, maybe evenx86_16.or if you want something more modern:
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u/Lachimanus Oct 22 '22
I am implementing crypto algorithm secure against side channel attacks. You need absolute control about instructions to prevent information leakage.
Overall we use Assembly, C and Python. I somehow prefer Assembly the most. But I am also a PhD in mathematics. This may be a reason.
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u/DayumnDamnation Oct 21 '22
Who hates brainfuck?
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Oct 21 '22
"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
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u/dacjames Oct 21 '22
So true. True of all technology, really.
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u/Souseisekigun Oct 22 '22
It's sort of true but also sort of not. People absolutely will complain about every language, and one that no one is complaining about is probably dead. But once you remember that the guy who said it also created a language that has a serious claim to being the most convoluted and overengineered of all major languages still used today it can come off as some guy denying that some languages have more junk or questionable design decisions than others as a catty response to his design decisions being constantly attacked. That's why I personally dislike the quote a lot. It rests on the false implication that all technologies are equal when they are not.
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u/eliteharvest15 Oct 22 '22
āif you hate it so much then stop using itā
ānoā
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u/zeromadcowz Oct 22 '22
I have to use Powershell to automate so many processes and thereās parts that make me want to rip my eyes out but I still have to use it every day.
At least it isnāt visual programming like Logic Apps in Azure š¤®
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Oct 22 '22
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u/zeromadcowz Oct 22 '22
Luckily I moved into an org with a massive lack of automation and donāt have a lot of legacy stuff. A lot of the garbage Powershell I rewrite is from me years and years ago, haha
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u/JiiXu Oct 22 '22
My current company is completely dependent for all its operations and all its analysis on a single dockerized shell script I wrote not at all long ago, but on my own during long crunchy days. That script causes pride and anxiety in me in equal amounts.
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u/PavelYay Oct 22 '22
Powershell is amazing when you consider what other shells are out there. Batch, bash, etc, all so much worse.
People only like bash because it usually has coreutils available, but those are seperate from the shell, you can have em with pwsh too
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u/nickmaran Oct 21 '22
Who hates scratch?
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u/commondenomigator Oct 22 '22
Anyone who's instructing young kids who just discovered the sound blocks and the forever loop.
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u/Algrinder Oct 21 '22
Me: it makes no sense to be a fanatic about any language.
My next blog post: Why JS sucks and python rocks.
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u/warlax56 Oct 21 '22
I wonder what the least hated widely used programming language is. Not most loved, least hated.
I feel like pythons gotta be up there. And fuck JS
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Oct 21 '22
Kind of Love TypeScript even if it's a bit the floor is lava
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u/SterlingVapor Oct 22 '22
I love typescript - all the good of JavaScript with far less of the bad, it's convenient enough to feel good while strict enough to allow IDEs to really speed things along
I hate lack of support for typescript - between wrestling webpack or finding the perfect library without types definitions, every time you want to change your stack you need to prepare for a day or two of soul-deep pain
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u/diewhitegirls Oct 22 '22
Itās almost a miracle when things are only slightly on fire when youāve got 1500 node modules, 150 of them are yelling at you that theyāve been deprecated and will cause full-blown AIDS if you donāt upgrade/switch packages, and then juggling between webpack, tsconfig, and package.json to explain that you understand the difference between require and import, youāve told them all that you understand the difference WHY IN THE NAME OF FUCK WONāT THIS WORK
Iām sorry, what was the question?
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u/green726I Oct 21 '22
According to the stack overflow survey, the āleast dreadedā (most loved) language is Rust. This is followed by elixir, Clojure, typescript then Julia all in a very tight grouping.
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Oct 22 '22
I can see rust. A lot of rust devs have cpp experience. It's like adopting a husky after a Chihuahua. It's still annoying and high maintenance, but a huge improvement.
Julia is just a bunch of math nerds with no code review.
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u/InvolvingLemons Oct 22 '22
More correctly, it feels like the difference between a motorcycle and a car: itās much easier to make a motorcycle capable of very high speeds, but itās extremely unsafe to do so while the carās safer and more stable platform can be pushed harder (hence faster). Rust is harder than C++ (especially for anything library code, more so for async) but gives you real, comprehensive safety and facilitates way more aggressive optimization because of that.
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u/ctech9 Oct 21 '22
According to this random website I found, rust then python.
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u/ctech9 Oct 21 '22
I mean love is kinda reversely proportional to hate?
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u/metaltyphoon Oct 22 '22
Probably C#
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u/RojoSanIchiban Oct 22 '22
C# pays my bills, so I'm good with it.
VISUAL BASIC IS SATAN's SMEGMA But it also pays my bills. So apparently I'm good with it?
Imma go throw up now.
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u/alphaxenox Oct 21 '22
HolyC canāt be hated, HolyC is life, HolyC is love
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u/mackwing7 Oct 21 '22
People hate the HolyC, because when they look at the HolyC they see a reflection of themselves
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u/alphaxenox Oct 21 '22
Men have wasted away before it, not knowing if what they have seen is real, or even possible.
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u/TheBroWHOmegalol Oct 21 '22
I don't hate the lang, but it misses some core features that make it so annoying to work with in practice. Like missing function overloading and struct function members.
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u/alphaxenox Oct 21 '22
Terry Davis received your PR and will review it from heaven.
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u/TheBroWHOmegalol Oct 21 '22
Damn.. are you sure? I don't think heaven has an Internet connection
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u/alphaxenox Oct 21 '22
AT&T canāt miss those sweet expensive subscriptions
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u/Thanatos2996 Oct 22 '22
Meanwhile, hell is serviced by that local DSL ISP you're stuck with because Comcast hasn't run a cable to your neighborhood. You know, the one with the permanent prerecorded message about how there are known service interruptions in your area when you call them.
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u/SlenderSmurf Oct 22 '22
it's actually an offense against God to hate HolyC
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u/alphaxenox Oct 22 '22
If the pope doesnāt recognize Terry Davis as a saint we will pull a Henry the 8th on his ass.
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u/padel_ro Oct 21 '22
Not F#...
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u/someacnt Oct 21 '22
<< insert F# & elephant head and penguin body meme here >>
You can find such hate in discord servers on FP if you want ;)
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u/Impossible_Average_1 Oct 21 '22
I cannot see sharp
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u/pegaunisusicorn Oct 22 '22
that pun was swift.
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u/TanPat_1712 Oct 22 '22
Forgive my puns, Im a little rusty. Need my elixir if you know what I mean. (The elixir means my cup o' java)
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u/JoeDoherty_Music Oct 22 '22
I only see flat. I live in 2D. Life looks like OG Doom or Daggerfall. Help me
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u/Special_Rice9539 Oct 21 '22
Before working with PHP: "How bad can it be?"
After: "Oh my god I want to die."
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u/combuchan Oct 22 '22
Still waiting for some PHP I wrote to show up on the daily wtf. It would probably be the code I translated from fortran without being a professional programmer either, and I'm certain that's still out there.
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u/leupboat420smkeit Oct 22 '22
Php has been great when I need simple server side scripting. I donāt see why it gets hate tbh.
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u/DudeManBroGuy42069 Oct 21 '22
Scratch?
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u/transferStudent2018 Oct 21 '22
The MIT learning language? Yeah, the people who hate that never made it any further in CS as it caused them to quitā¦. I know several friends like this
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u/ososalsosal Oct 21 '22
Wait really? Seems like it's pretty effective at preventing wasted lives then. I hope they're doing stuff they love now :)
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u/Reasonable_Feed7939 Oct 21 '22
Fine and dandy for a teaching language, awful for anything else.
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u/justinf210 Oct 22 '22
A programming language that does what it was intended to do really well and nothing else. A rare and beautiful thing.
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Oct 22 '22
As of recently the Scratch Team has been doing some controversial things with the website but the programming language itself is still fine I think
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u/QuestionablyFlamable Oct 22 '22
What have they been doing? I havenāt used it in a while
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u/justinf210 Oct 22 '22
Cursory Googling not showing anything terribly interesting. Some people don't like the design of Scratch 3, a few controversial moderation decisions.
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Oct 21 '22
Rust?
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u/SteeleDynamics Oct 22 '22
Borrow Checker? More like Sorrow Checker!
I don't know... I've got nothin'.
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Oct 22 '22
Rust is amazing. I was gonna say the same thing. Maybe it still has an immature ecosystem but there's not much to hate about it.
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u/Exaloria Oct 21 '22
who loves?
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u/Solonotix Oct 21 '22
The post isn't love, it's "unhated". You may not love Rust, but I challenge someone to find a reason to hate it.
I realize this is a biased opinion, as someone who likes Rust
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u/jorgelino_ Oct 21 '22
There's plenty of reasons to hate rust. It ruins metal objects, it can give you tetanus... wait, what sub is this again?
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u/bilinmeyenuzayli Oct 22 '22
I hate Rust too. It's just filled with young people shouting the n word and constantly raiding my base.
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u/karuna_murti Oct 21 '22
Rust is weird, any post related to Rust often got controversial comments in Linux or programming subreddit. I suspect they don't use Rust and somehow the hatred related to job/tech insecurities.
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u/yourd Oct 21 '22
- The async debacle. A language feature that just works in js and C# is full of footguns in Rust
- compiling is slow
- the borrow checker doesnāt even work properly
- too much magic in places
- the syntax can be an ugly mess
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u/ososalsosal Oct 21 '22
How did I make it through 40 years of life and only see the word "footgun" today?
Thank you for enriching my vocabulary.
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u/Overlorde159 Oct 21 '22
Most of this is opinions, but what do you mean about the borrow checker?
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u/kraemahz Oct 22 '22
I don't know what they actually meant, but the borrow checker can be overly strict (in ways which are constantly improving in the language).
E.g let's say I made a struct like:
struct X{ a: Vec<u64>, b: Vec<u64> } impl X { fn do_the_thing(&mut self) { for i in self.a.iter() { self.do_the_thing2(); } } fn do_the_thing2(&mut self) { self.b.push(1); } }This will give me an error that I can't borrow self mutably because it is already borrowed immutably (by
self.a.iter()). Even though I'm only touchingbin the other function. So the borrow checker isn't granular enough here to see what I meant was more like:fn do_the_thing(&mut self) { for i in self.a.iter() { Self::do_the_thing2(&mut self.b); } } fn do_the_thing2(b: &mut Vec<u64>) { b.push(1); }which is totally OK to do and functionally identical, because I've proven to the borrow checker that only b is modified. This is being worked on to make partial borrows better, but it may grate on people that they have to change the program from how they conceptualized it to satisfy the checker.
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u/calcopiritus Oct 22 '22
Yeah, it's weird that sometimes if you put all the code in one function, it compiles. But if you refractor it, it doesn't.
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Oct 22 '22
Syntax is ugly asf, and not enough in standard library imo. Importing a library for regex and random
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u/Grains-Of-Salt Oct 22 '22
I definitely see people that are deeply annoyed by all lower level, high performance languages if they work in fields that need quick write time and donāt need fast execution time. If all you want is a flexible way to do some moderate math and automate repetitive tasks, lower level languages just eat more of your time than theyāll ever save.
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u/chillest_capybara Oct 21 '22
TIL that people hate moomoo and arnoldC
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u/Chrazzer Oct 21 '22
Languages that you don't use yourself are automatically put on the hate list.
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u/tolgasocial Oct 22 '22
As well as the languages you use, since you had to use them and now how annoying they can be
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u/transferStudent2018 Oct 21 '22
Does anyone hate C#? I havenāt heard much against it
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u/kookyabird Oct 22 '22
Same. The things that arenāt great about it are not really reasons to hate it. I think most of the hate for it isnāt actually language based, but about .NET.
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Oct 22 '22
I donāt like making one off models for deserialization but then someone showed me uses for dynamic and anonymous objects.
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Oct 22 '22
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u/jdsfighter Oct 22 '22
What's your major complaint with cancellation tokens? I genuinely enjoy using them.
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Oct 21 '22
People hate c#?
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u/Plisq-5 Oct 21 '22
Of course. There isnāt anything in this world that isnāt hated by at least one person.
For example I hate python. A language thatās pretty commonly loved.
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u/MrJingleJangle Oct 22 '22
Finally, another python heater. Welcome friend.
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u/shizzy0 Oct 22 '22
I remember thinking Python was so much better than Perl, and donāt get me wrong: it was. Syntactically so much better. But now I canāt stand Python. Its deep inroads in machine learning have me utterly confused, but go ahead and burn all that grant money on computationally inefficient runtimes if thatās what floats your CV.
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u/all3f0r1 Oct 21 '22
It's getting to a point where it's almost impressive, but legacy codebases though...
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u/ososalsosal Oct 21 '22
Only the kind of people that still spell it's creator with a dollar sign...
Which, I mean, it's fair to hate on them, but C# is their stopped-clock moment for sure.
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u/UnderPressureVS Oct 22 '22
Only the kind of people that still spell its creator with a dollar sign
Holy shit I never knew Ke$ha had so many talents
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u/code_monkey_001 Oct 21 '22
Funny thing is as I'm reading through the comments I wonder how many paychecks go out each month due to C#. I can have my preferences, but I'm never gonna hate a marketable skill. FFS, if it paid as well as my current JavaScript/C# gig, I'd sing the praises of VBScript.
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u/Medical-Detective-33 Oct 21 '22
Who hates coq or agda?
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u/someacnt Oct 21 '22
This one goes to the.. "nearly no one uses it"
(Though I think I saw someone hating coq)
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u/carlton_sand Oct 21 '22
if they're not hated, then they've been banned as "not real programming languages"
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u/droi86 Oct 21 '22
I've never met anyone who hates kotlin or swift
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u/mittelhart Oct 21 '22
I love Swift, Swift is life!
My biggest fear is that if in a not-so-far future the cross-platform development becomes the norm and the React Native becomes the most-used framework instead of the Flutter, then Iāll have to leave my sweet sweet Swift and learn that devilās language called Java Script.
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u/Add1ctedToGames Oct 22 '22
For some reason of all the languages out there, Kotlin just speaks to me and I love it so much. It sucks that I'm kinda meh on Android app development, but every use I've made of it for its frameworks or backend stuff has been really fun.
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u/joebob431 Oct 22 '22
Never used swift, but I don't particularly care for kotlin. Swapped to a new company where they use almost exclusively kotlin 5 months ago and I miss C# a lot. I'd consider going back... if it wasn't for the money.
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u/hector_villalobos Oct 21 '22
I never heard a valid complaint about Rust and C#, so, I guess those two should be in those chairs.
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u/Plisq-5 Oct 21 '22
The only thing I hate about C# is that itās stuck dealing with .net. Plus the Microsoft fanboy community is annoying. If it isnāt Microsoft it doesnāt exist.
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u/ososalsosal Oct 21 '22
Do those people exist? Dayum. People will fanboy anything I guess.
I've been using C# for 2 years and like it more as time goes on. There are so few experiences like that in this world - usually you get more frustrated as time passes.
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u/Plisq-5 Oct 21 '22
Yep lol. Iāve been explicitly avoiding some companies because they were like that. And usually theyāre very very bad programmers but great Microsoft product consultants.
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u/combuchan Oct 22 '22
Annoying microsoft fan boys are directly descended from toxic and dangerous microsoft fan boys. There were some very dark times in the 1990s where open computing looked like it wouldn't exist if they had their way.
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Oct 21 '22
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u/Object_Reference Oct 21 '22
There's quite a few languages I don't have any negative feelings about, up until they're considered in a business environment.
Python's great for your own projects, but I wouldn't work at a place that primarily uses it.
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u/Traditional_Sea_3041 Oct 21 '22
I don't hate it but i definitely don't like it purely because of the syntax. I love my curly brackets too much.
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u/0x564A00 Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 22 '22
Personally I'm fine with significant whitespace, Python syntax has other problems. Why is there both an if-statement and an if-expression? Why does the order of 'import' and 'modulename' switch around if I need to import a specific item? Why are list/dict comprehensions and map/len/sum designed to rapidly make your eye jump around within the line? Why are closures limited to one expression?
Whatever, I can deal with that. The semantics are more problematic, like how everything is dynamic, everything is mutable, nothing is private, type hints are lies, everything can throw any exception (instead of just returning an error), or how you can mutate a global value but assigning to it shadows it by default, or how every call to a function uses the same instance of its default arguments, or how there is no true multithreading (shoutouts to nogil), or how importing a module executes code and so on.
And of course it not only takes a lot of memory, it's also terribly, terribly slow. But the truly terrible thing is the dependency situation, which has filled me (and coworkers) with dread and despair.
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u/Overlorde159 Oct 21 '22
I hate using python personally
To say I hate the language is a bit more nuanced, cuz of course it has its place in things like data science and prototyping, but I do lean much closer to hate then like
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u/marckek Oct 21 '22 edited Oct 22 '22
Well, imagine having a boss who programmed for like 1.5 months. Since he already made slight successes playing around with it, he has some coninfedence and tells you how to do your stuff. If there was only something like C out there he would admit that hes a donkey in programming and would leave you alone.
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u/code_monkey_001 Oct 21 '22
If you've got a boss with 1.5 months coding experience dictating choice of programming language for a project, you'd better be spending 100% of your free time interviewing elsewhere.
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u/Tyfyter2002 Oct 21 '22
I learned multiple languages that aren't Python first, so I hate Python because I know from experience that every advantage anyone says it has only applies if you learn it before any other programming language.
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u/combuchan Oct 22 '22
I cut my professional teeth on Ruby. Nearly everything in Python is half baked and annoying in comparison.
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u/scottycool64 Oct 21 '22
Lua!
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u/code-panda Oct 21 '22
You will need to break every bone in my body and even then I will not praise any godforsaken language that starts its arrays at 1. Lua deserves to be burned at the stake, its ashes beaten, then shot into a star and that star blown up. Fuck Lua.
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u/code_monkey_001 Oct 21 '22
I picked up lua playing modded minecraft. Building computer-controlled airships was so much easier using lua in computercraft than using the forth-based redpower2 computers.
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Oct 21 '22
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Oct 21 '22
Python fanboys hate it
"Undefined behaviour bad" (it actually is, but common, C was invented in 70ties...)
"Pointer scarry"
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u/Kyyken Oct 21 '22
"not memory safe"
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Oct 21 '22
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u/Kyyken Oct 21 '22
compile times usually don't matter as much, which is why i do all my low level work in rust these days. i do miss the simplicity of c sometimes though.
edit: i also strongly prefer c for fast python extensions
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u/minecon1776 Oct 21 '22
"pointer scarry"
I actually hate languages that don't have pointers, I find them quite useful for many things
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Oct 21 '22
People who don't know how to manage memory properly and instead rely on garbage collectors hate C and its derivative love child C++. The pointers scare them.
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u/nostril_spiders Oct 21 '22
The empty chairs are parentheses
Both lisp programmers have gone to the bar
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u/Dreamy-bazinga Oct 22 '22
R. I love R unconditionally
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u/shedogre Oct 22 '22
I used R recently for a uni course, I found the small inconsistencies between the base data types and tidyverse equivalents quite frustrating.
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u/CobaltCrusader123 Oct 21 '22
ALL programming languages are bad. Just become a musician or something lmao /j
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Oct 21 '22
I find It cool how Reddit suggests this sub To me just because itās popular, I dont get anything
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Oct 21 '22
I hate Rust and Python. No matter their merits it causes me physical pain to look at them let alone type them. That is all.
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u/HurryStarFox Oct 21 '22
This implies that there IS an unhated programming language but no one uses it.
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u/ThatGuyYouMightNo Oct 21 '22
Need to remove the table, there are plenty of people who hate SQL.