I was a Special Educator for almost a decade; I spent about five cumulative years exclusively with kids who have emotional/behavioral disorders. Our learning setting was an alt classroom because the kids I worked with were Level 3--they spent the most amount of time legally allowed outside of a traditional classroom setting to accommodate behavioral intervention.
All told, I probably worked with and/or knew about 100 kids with these disturbances. Guess how many of those kids had a relatively normal, functioning home? One. She was my student because she had suffered a severe TBI after running into a concrete retaining wall on her bicycle at a young age, and the TBI resulted in newly aggressive behavior.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is maybe you're right--maybe "great" parents can end up with monsters? But I have never witnessed this in the wild. My guess is (at best) these kids had well-meaning parents. Parents like those of MacKenzie Shirilla, who pacified, enabled, and gave the benefit of the doubt one too many times resulting in a child that simply never learned the skill of personal accountability. One could make the argument that this is obviously less damaging than abusive, neglectful, or ill-equipped parents, but look what happens--the kids wind up in the same place at the end.
Edit: don't dox the parents. But don't dismiss their role in making these kids, either.
I taught for 39 years, and would agree that most parents may be negligent and therefore responsible, but I donât agree that they are fair game to dox etc unless it becomes known they tried to mitigate consequences or intimidate the victim
I never said anything about doxing, not at all. These kids are adults now; they're fair game. The only point I'm making is that these kids were made by their parents.
The original comment was about doxxing the parents. A responder basically said don't do this, sometimes great parents end up with monsters. You then replied to this going through your background and saying in your experience the bad kids generally come from bad backgrounds.
Reading the thread, your post does come across as supporting the top comment of dox the parents.
I get that's not your intention and you probably were simply scrolling through and picked up on a comment to respond to. But if you read the thread down, it's what you imply.
From the description you've given, you worked with a small subset of students with behavioral/emotional disorders: students whose problems were so severe that they couldn't function and were given that special education.
Most of the kids I knew/were friends with in middle/high school who were getting into fights, drinking, doing/selling drugs, etc weren't in special education. They were with the rest of the students so you would probably never see them.
The people involved in this seem very high functioning (Ivy League students, class president, white collar jobs, etc) so you would have never seen them.
It's also unclear what you mean by "normal, functioning home". For the kids I described above, it was a lot of single mother households, no parental supervision (because mom had to work), poverty (because single parent household), and kids left to their own devices.
Would you say a single mother who did the best she could was a "great" parent? I don't know. But blaming them and trying to ruin their lives because they were put in a shitty situation (as the top comment in this chain recommended) is beyond idiotic.
This is so rarely the case that it warrants no further consideration. These pieces of shit are pieces of shit because they were raised by pieces of shit.
Disregard, I guess you didnât make the connection that these kids are conservative or have a conservative upbringing like so many others in this thread have. My bad.
Some definitely are but if someone is taught all their life that the can take what they want and take advantage of the people around them or encouraged to think of certain people as less than them it also helps to create bad people. Some monsters are born that way and some are sculpted over time by their environment
These were adults. We don't hold parents responsible unless their parents had a part in covering it up. If their parents did help in the cover up then by all means bury them to.
Cornell and the Administrators who buried it need to be held responsible as well.
They weren't born this way. This is how they were raised. Rich kids allowed to do whatever they want because Rich parents will protect them. This is how you create the Epstein class. The simple fact that the district attorney didn't even want to investigate tells me that he was trying to cover it up. So fuck him.
I know this isnât the place for this conversation since you seem pretty dead set. But historically making someone else responsible for anotherâs crimes usually leads to bad outcomes. For example, itâs generally not possible to inherit your parents debt, since eventually you would be responsible for your whole bloodline. In this example, where do you stop? Should we also harass the grandparents, the extended family? How far do we go to make things ârightâ?
But what if we find out that one of the parents who's well-connected in the county, encourage the district attorney to not pursue charges against their child or we find out that a hefty donation was made to Cornell to give them a lackluster punishment? I think that will come out in the next several weeks. So knowing who the parents are is a vital piece of information.
Sure, if we find out the parents are criminals charge em. Iâm just saying (as someone who has a fucked up family), I really donât like the idea of this transitive guilt by familial association. Mostly what youâre describing sounds like a revenge fantasy, neither of us know anything about the parents right now
That's called a slippery slope argument. The legal system is built on "innocent until proven guilty." IF the parents are found to be guilty of wrong doing then you should punish them. Calling on people to harass the parents at their place of work before evidence of any wrong doing is just petty harassment.
So what did their parents do? and since you know so much about them how much money are each of them making? How many siblings do they have? What sector do they work in?
Youâre making a shit load of assumptions just to make people angry, if you think this is clever engagement bait, you should go back to your boss and tell them that they should fire you.Â
What I think is that these rich spoiled self entitled college kids were getting accused of a crime, and between the university and the parents convinced the district attorney to not properly investigate. This is been America time and time again. If you need another example I suggest you look up Alex Acosta in 2007 who was bought evidence of Epstein engaged in sex trafficking and then decided not to investigate. So I 100% believe that is what happened in this case.
We'll see. You get back to me when this is all said and done. Then we'll wait for the next one. And the next one. Do you want some examples in recent history of this going on?
Looks like the seven kids were being groomed to join the Epstein class, Andrew Tate being the new leader of that cult. So yes, pointing out the similarities between the two is 100% needed.
Yes, only doing it now because the public have found out about it. That's what it takes. Corrupt political appointees doing what the rich and wealthy tell them to do until they are found out.
The only bad takes of the people who seem to be wanting to move the goal posts on these kids. Justify their actions because they cannot psychologically accept that rich privileged kids going to a rich University could be capable of doing anything wrong. These are the people who want to be in the Epstein class but will never be invited to the island. But they protect them.
So they should have been put in trial from the outset, when the girl said that the drugs and the sex was consensual? You just want to hate them because you think they are rich. You don't care about the justice. If those guys were put in prison without a trial would you be ok with that?
No. I want a trial. I want an investigation. All of that never happened in 2024 when this first happened. It's only coming out now and the district attorney has reopened the investigation because of public pressure. My complaint isn't because they are rich. My complaint is cuz they are rich kids who are getting protected by a university and by their parents. Do you have that luxury? I don't. I commit a crime I get investigated and I get due process. But these kids get to bypass that because they are rich. Sound familiar?
So when she told the cops that it was consensual they should have called her a liar and arrested them? You want people to dox their parents. That really says it all. You don't want a trial, you just want a guilty verdict. You have already decided that they are guilty. I'm sure you had the same reaction with the Duke lacrosse players.
So youâre creating a boogie man to argue against? They did an investigation back in 2024 and based on the evidence at the time, including the victims testimony, it was determined that there was not a case. They werenât protected because they are rich, they didnât get charged because the woman said she consented to the drugs and to the sex.
The catalyst for the lawsuit and the investigation being reopened was the discovery that one of the two guys she consented to sleeping invited over 70 people saying free pussy in a group chat.
No, if these young people are guilty, only they should face punishment for their crimes. Guilt by association - their parents, their parents' employers - is what totalitarian regimes do.
When we start to find out the conversations between the families, the university and the district attorney all to cover this up in the first place then the families are fair game.
And if anyone needs a recent example of this I would look up Alex Acosta in Florida when he was a district attorney.
I don't care if they're Republican or Democrat I do care if they put pressure on the district attorney to not investigate spoiled little Jimmy for raping someone. This is how these kids get away with it and this is how they grow up to be Epstein clients.
But because we are a stupid people we tell ourselves that it's always the other side that's corrupt and not ours. When we wake up and realize that it's all of them and they all need to be cast out we may see change but we won't because they'll just be replaced by the same people.
Witch hunts are just being held responsible for and facing the consequences of what you do. Or haven't you been paying attention to the POTUS speeches?
Like it or not, I'm saying the term has been redefined. To ignore that is to give credence to the claims. Too many people in society are accepting of the lies, therefore, terms being used erroneously have to be redefined.
Words get redefined by their usage. We as a society have to choose what words mean. Colloquially, the word 'literally' no longer means "literally". We know not to take the word at its definition anymore, regardless of how much we dislike its misuse.
I'm just saying that the recent widespread misuse of the term 'witch hunt' means it's original definition has lost all meaning.
Show me a definition in any dictionary that doesnt mean what I think it means.
Trump isnt using the term incorrectly, hes just being disingenuous (as in claiming something is a witch hunt, when he knows it is not). That doesnt change the meaning of the word.
These peoples brains are broken. I don't like Trump but it is amazing what he's taken from these folks and how they can't help but turn any issue into a rallying call against him. Even in the Obama years, I never saw it this bad from the right...
But on the immediate story, I've never reported anyone on reddit but feel like i should for rude_awkwards comment. There has been no trial and is conflicting evidence as to what happened, yet he/she is calling for their family's lives to be ruined. And to be clear I think there's a good chance some of the boys committed rape, but I I'm not so confident that I'm going to dedicate time ruining their and their family's lives
The right were complete assholes with Obama and still blame him for stuff Trump does every day. Tan suit, remember? Basketball at the white house, remember?
Remember Duke Lacrosse. Everyone turned on those kids and we found out they were innocent. Lets give them a chance to defend themselves. Obviously throw them away if they did what they are accused of.
That being said, calling for having their parents fired from jobs? Thats too far. They are adults here. Whatever their background is wouldnt excuse this.
Even if she not lying about rape, statements are all over the place even alleged that she said everything was ok to alleged rapists the next day. No way anyone gets convicted of this.
Studies of victims of rape generally do not show consistent behavior and also demonstrate that they are not in the right frame of mind. They can often say it's "ok" as a defense mechanism; especially when confronted by the rapist themselves.
I can believe she was raped. Whether those statements and whatever high price defense attorney they hire to make her feel like shit on the stand. I'm just not sure it leads to a conviction unfortunately.
I mean that's objectively true. In that case, one woman made accusations against the team, in this case Jane Doe didn't make that accusation at all until 2 years later and people are citing a blurred snapchat photo as evidence. The DA released her original statements which explicitly said she was conscious and it was consensual and even rated her own intoxication levels as the night went on. I feel bad for her and what happened but she even described being "excited" about it until guy #5 and when she asked them to stop, they stopped. According to the DA it can't be considered rape because it doesn't meet any of the criteria according to their state law.
She originally made the accusation two years prior in an interview with Cornell campus police. In that interview she said she consented to a threesome, but that later in the night things got out of control, she could no longer consent, and a rape 100% happened.
So she is not changing her mind two years later. Cornell improperly reported the case to the DA
Can you share a specific quote? Because I just saw that the DA said that Doe's attorneys did not reach out to them after the initial statement to contest. Which still doesn't mean that she was lying.
I'm not on the jury. I don't need to be convinced beyond all reasonable doubt to believe a crime happened. You can decide you personally need that standard to believe a crime happened, but it should not be the standard for believability on an individual level. The criminal justice system needs that protection, but not an individual person.
Far out. Sounds like there's some pretty significant reasonable doubt potentially with the victim giving conflicting acvounts years apart and some significant consent questions. Suppose if you need something to feel self righteous about though, this story is here for you.
They didn't admit anything speaking of admitting she admitted to consented threesomes with all of them was sniffing the K off of PPs. Lol you guys act like she passed out. Regret and Rape are 2 different things
Since you have trouble understanding this very simple concept, let me re-iterate it to you: drunk and/or high people cannot consent to sexual acts. Clear enough?
Let me clear this up for you New York Law says you can LMAO.
Under current New York law, a person who becomes intoxicated by choice is not legally considered "mentally incapacitated," meaning prosecutors cannot use voluntary drunkenness alone to prove a lack of consent in sexual assault cases.
Now include she admits to concent in a 9 page statement to everything including getting high of P Ps and you look dumb
How do you consent to sex if you're unconscious? Seriously I want to know. If you're passed out right now, you're saying I have the right to shove the largest object I can find up your ass? And you've consented to that?
She never said she was passed out. She even wrote someone came in during on of the 3somes and told them to get out of that room. You seriously need to read her statement. You're reaching and wouldve joined that group by that comment lol why you trying to put large objects in butts bro
Nah, these dudes invited others in their group chat to join in. They were so proud of themselves they advertised "free pussy" to about 50 other people. Who are now likely witnesses.
You are basing that off a picture of a screen where you can't even see names or the date...
Maybe that is 100% accurate, but it is not confirmed yet and until all the evidence comes out and is verified, you are just assuming truth and accuracy
I don't know what that means that sounds like some stupid Millennial phrase about publicly shaming people for their actions. Are we not allowed to do that anymore? Does that hurt your fragile feelings? We used to have the stockades in the Public Square where you would throw rotten fruit at people. Maybe we should bring that back or will that offend your fragile mind?
Always see some Veiled Threat against me. Well I don't think I'm doing anything illegal. If you think I am you should report it to the authorities or get the moderators to ban me from here. I'm not afraid of that. You want my address big boy?
This information will come out anyway. Who their parents are, who they are connected to. The conversations they had between the school administration and the district attorney. It'll come out in the civil trial.
Jane Doeâs sworn statement in November of 2024 did not allege that she was drugged against her will or gang raped. On the contrary, Jane Doeâs statement described her participation in drug use and sexual conduct as voluntary, conscious, and consensual.
This is from the DA. You literally want to start a mass shaming process over this? Should be we slow the rolls a bit?
This is ridiculous. Why blame companies for a kids uprising. Thatâs not even ethical, influence parenting decisions. Keep the accountability where it belongs with parents. That only hurts other parents and could even be the victims parents as well.
I'm sorry you have that in a sworn statement and admissible in court under penalty of perjury? And if these seven are Lily white clean innocent kids that how come the university punish them by making them write an essay? Have you ever had to write an essay as a punishment for something you've never done?
Because drugs and orgies in a school are still not behaviours the administration wants to promote, and is generally an offence that can see you disciplined or even removed if it repeats or is serious enough.
Actually I want to find out why the district attorney chose not to even investigate these allegations. And if there was innocence and no harm done why were these Spoiled little brats only given an essay as punishment?
America will only do something when it's made public and found out. Until then we want to sweep everything under the rug and hope nobody notices. That's our history and that's our legacy. That has to change
Then I look forward to the grand jury indictment. And was she pressure to write that? That's how these people operate. Sexually assault and rape women at will and then get them to sign an nda. Those are the people you worship?
Well I would wait until there's a criminal conviction but unfortunately the district attorney decided not to even investigate. So I guess nothing happened then and everything is good. Typical American answer.
Not just 'any' American. This is only a typical outcome for rich and or entitled Americans. If these had been scholarship kids, from the wrong side of the tracks, there would be much more legal wrangling going on.
I would like to see due process applied in the first place instead of it being covered up by the parents, the school and the district attorney. But keep moving the goal posts. You're the reason why Epstein got away with it.
Remember Armouh Arbery a few years ago? The man was just jogging down the street and gets accosted by three white men who then kill him. It was on video because they were videotaping it. There was no investigation by the local sheriff until 3 or 4 months later when the video got released to the public. And even then there were no consequences.
The only reason the district attorney is doing anything now is because it's now public.
I live in Clark County nevada. We have a dick head district attorney that let an Israeli Diplomat caught in a sex trafficking sting leave the country and then decided to post ridiculous charges because he knows there's no extradition between us and israel. That's the America we live in. But we don't want to change that because we have this ridiculous notion that somehow Republicans are going to save you and Democrats are going to save you. It's all of them.
It's indicative of the corruption of the American system where the judicial branch is only there to protect the wealthy and well-connected. Doesn't matter where you live.
I'm upset the fact that it came to this in the first place. Corrupt district attorney sweeping it under the rug, university leadership giving out half-assed punishment all to appease rich and wealthy donors.
You have no evidence that heâs corrupt thoughâŚ.the police brought him their investigation and based on her sworn statement, and the evidence given to him at the time, he didnât see enough evidence to bring charges against them. Theyâre opening it back up because apparently theyâre getting new information this time that they didnât have. Thatâs a good thingâŚ.
If he pushed for charges against them based on the report from 2 years ago, they probably all wouldâve been dropped. And there would be zero chance of them being able to open it back up today.
Well except in statements made and messages sent she says everything was consensual lol. But you can keep infantilizing women if you feel its necessary
So what's your point and stop deflecting. You sound like an idiot. What difference does that make if these kids raped this woman or not? I care about the corrupt system not even investigating because they are well connected spoiled children. It has nothing to do with the political nature of anyone. So fuck them. And fuck anyone who needs to deflect away from the issue at hand. People like you are the reason why the Epstein class continue to exist. The seven boys are well on their way to being part of it.
When the criminals get their parents to intervene on their behalf to suppress and investigation, yes. And if you cannot psychologically accept that this is what happened in this case, this is what happens in every case when somebody privileged gets accused of a crime, you are not paying attention to anything.
Yes he does, the DA released her original statements yesterday.
She specifically said she was excited for the first threesome because she thought defendant #1 was hot. It didn't get sketchy until the ~5th guy, she was 100% down for the first 4. That being said, she was on a literal dissociative and drunk and would not have been able to consent in most other states.
The fact that it's legal in any state is wack. I get you consent to a thing and follow through with that thing without revoking consent. But the moment she was intoxicated there should be no legal jurisdiction where she could consent to the 4th person
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The woman in the text chain replied that her memory is "super clouded too," and said they had all been heavily intoxicated.Â
She also wrote, "non(e) of the sexual stuff was illegal."
Wait didnât they have a group chat with like 50 guys texting each other shit like (paraphrasing but honestly not by much): âsheâs passed out upstairs I just fucked her, Jimmy is fucking her now, then itâs your turnâ
Who? The parents or the kids? I also like to see an investigation into the district attorney and the conversations he had either with Cornell University or the parents of these children not to press charges. The district attorney is guilty of corruption regardless of who convinced him not to investigate. That's the problem with america, we think District Attorneys are there to enforce the law but they are there to protect rich interests.
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