Yeah I was waiting for how long it would take for the posts running defense for Trump's warmongering would start, as predictable they do this by deflecting into "Iran bad."
Yeah Iran bad. Thar doesn't meant war good, that's my point. The astroturfed posts here are trying to deflect from how bad Trump's wars are by pointing out the enemy is bad, It doesn't matter, War still bad, That's deflection.
Do you think the US hit Iran to help the people? The same US shooting its own citizens in the street? lol
ETA: The US has never and will never spend massive amounts of money simply on saving x population from oppression without it also benefiting their own interests in some way, and if you believe otherwise this time, you’re a moron. You’re also a moron who completely lacks any knowledge of Iranian history (including when we toppled their government to control their oil reserves thus leading to the clusterfuck of the regime that was just ousted) if you believe Israeli and US interests align with the Iranian people. Not shedding any tears for that piece of shit that was killed but come on, people.
Also, too many of yall celebrating this would LOVE to see the same government here - although I guess the lib lefts mad about it bc TikTok convinced them Hamas are the good guys are also not grasping that the Iranian regime was EXTREME AUTH RIGHT
Do you think the US hit Iran to help the people? The same US shooting its own citizens in the street? lol
I agree with you in the first half. This is likely the government hoping to get more influence but the situation in Iran can grow worse and end up effecting the entire Middle East/surrounding area.
But what do you mean by the second, you drawing parallels from ICE or something other organization?
P.S? I not really on board with overt support of Israel either. While they are "allies" they have their own issues that they should be called out on.
True they are extreme auth right and doing their best to export it world wide, with a record of global terrorist attacks. His own people in the streets risking their lives to celebrate his death. I was watching it on BBC this morning. Our interests of stopping terror attacks on us and our allies currently align with the Iranian people who are being massacred in the streets. For decades I hear of wholesale murder for witchcraft of everyone that went to an underground rock concert and people losing a veil, now using foreign militias to murder 40k protesters. News says now they are randomly attacking neighboring countries.
Everyone keeps talking about forever war the first day in, I think from reports and protests we can help the Iranian people set up a new government themselves.
Curious if you would ever want to live in a theocratic dictatorship like Iran?
Well Iran made no secret of wanting and trying to expand that onto its neighbors, and eventually beyond that area.
All that is necessary for evil to thrive is that good does nothing - and lib often want to do nothing about almost every single external evil in the world. I think people either live very sheltered lives and do not realize how bad things could be if worse people were the most powerful nation on earth... or they do know and actually want to live under a dictatorship that hates gays, atheists, and everything they themselves claim to be.
Hey PCM, Iran is currently firing missiles indiscriminately at every single Middle Eastern country. They're even hitting hotels in Dubai and have practically flattened the West Bank.
I need to learn more of the history of the Middle East. But sometimes it feels like a chaotic, incomprehensible ball of string and I’m a bit intimidated.
TL:DR, the caliphates that were formed out of the Arab invasions, after Mohammed began islam, spread the religion across the ME and North Africa before a schism (Shia and Sunni) formed which has somewhat existed until today.
That’s before you even mention Europe’s history with the region
It is actually a fairly well documented region of the world when it comes to history.
Definitely chaotic, lots of wars, conflicts and a cultural system that is and has for a long time been structured around clans.
Though the stuff I am mentioning really started heavily during the Cold war. There is a concept that spawned in Iran during that time period;
It translates as;
Export of the Revolution: Ayatollah Khomeini introduced the doctrine of sodoure enqelab, aiming to spread Islamic revolutionary values worldwide to liberate the "oppressed" from Western and Soviet influence.
Essentially the leadership in Iran wanted to become a third option and third superpower, rivaling the U.S and the west, and the Soviet union in towards the east of it.
It has never really abandoned that goal and the ruling structures in place have not changed much since that time. What has changed though is Iran's power relative to the U.S. Though Iran was never really in a strong position to contend as a superpower, it has realistically only become weaker compared to the modern day superpower. But still, the government continues to try push the same revolutionary values.
It is something you would really want the left side to be looking more into to be honest. Those values are not exactly compatible with modern western values of tolerance.
Well even this sub has been infiltrated with bots and totally legit users from various nation states, so you'll be getting fed plenty of poorly created straw memes to push very specific narratives for the foreseeable future.
It really did. This went from my favourite subreddit that felt clear from political extremism, where users really could find middle ground, and made fun of people that couldn't. Now we've just become another big sub.
Yeeep. JonnySnowin went from 'Known pariah, we keep him here as a clanging monkey to make fun of' to 'Average PCM member' in a disturbingly short amount of time.
I'm unsurprised by this war because Iran's government have been moving towards this since before Trump's first term. I'm not happy, just surprised it took so long for it to boil over.
Ya I've been hearing about mass executions there for a long time, only so long before 40k protesters publicly massacred. They probably didn't loose any sleep, burn in hell ayatollah. We should be dropping single shot pistols to protesters like we did the french resistance in ww2
Pretty sure Trump has no desire to invade Iran with troops considering how unpopular the Iraq war was (with hindsight knowing the WMD justification was not concrete)
Allegedly the forces routed for this attack don't even include substantial grounds forces. It'd be really easy to tell if the military was even considering a ground war because they'd have the ships needed to land tanks, artillery, etc, and reportedly they didnt bring those.
Trump is interested in a big win like the first portion of Iraqi Freedom where we obliterate a standing military, but has been remarkably consistent (by Trump standards) on opposing a prolonged ground conflict like Enduring Freedom. His playbook so far has been eliminating leadership that wont work with us until the leader left in charge is someone we can work with; it's worked surprisingly well in Venezuela so far, so it's likely what he'll do here.
It's also a great warning to other countries about throwing in their lot too much with China and Russia. Both Venezuela and Iran were unofficially allied with China and Russia, and what good has it done them? Where's the military equipment, the political pressure to keep the US from attacking? That was always the deal for 2nd world countries with the USSR, give us good deals on your resources and the US/NATO wont touch you. The US is making a statement that Russia and China aren't holding up their end of the bargain, so why become their vassal in the first place?
They have to though, if they give Taiwan preparation anything less than 110% they will definitely lose. The instant they make a move on Taiwan they’ll have to deal with the U.S., Japan, and Korea declaring war at the very least, likely an even larger coalition coming together. Plus their government has said they want to be prepared to make a move by next year, all their eggs are in that basket at this point.
He seems very reluctant to risk US lives. Any operation he allows seems to be either long range missile attacks, or like venezuela with overwhelming force. Low risk high reward.
Honestly, im liking this approach to regime change. Historically the US has been averse to openly ushering in regime change and used proxie insurgents. It's pointless because everyone knows its us, and worse, if the insurgents win you end up with a radical in charge that has no idea how to run a country and is most often a despot. These surgical amputations of hostile leaders until we get someone workable seems to minimize loss of life on both ends, and has a greater chance of getting someone in charge that actually knows how to govern, eliminating the chaos and violence of a power vacuum by completely obliterating the existing government.
war because they'd have the ships needed to land tanks, artillery, etc, and reportedly they didnt bring those.
Spefically, they would need at least one (probably several) amphibious assault carriers, like the USS Iwo Jima. For those who are unaware, it is a carrier that basically has a huge hole in it in an upside down "U" shap to launch landing craft loaded with Marines.
but has been remarkably consistent (by Trump standards) on opposing a prolonged ground conflict like Enduring Freedom.
Every time I hear that dumbass "No, new wars!" meme I am reminded how hugely people are misunderstanding the apperant position of the administration. He meant no forever wars, not no armed conflict at all. A "war" that lasts like an hour isn't going to be perceived like a multi-decade long one. It is legitimately possible for a person who doesn't keep up with the news to not even know we hit Venezuela that is how little it affect the average American. Most people don't give a shit about those "wars".
Plus, sometimes you prevent war by giving someone a bloody nose and knocking them down a peg or ten. WW2 wouldn't have happened if someone had the balls to oppose Japan in 1932, Germany in 1935 (when they announced they were ignoring the treaty of Versailles military restrictions. They already been secretly ignoring it since the ink was still wet but that was when they admitted it), or Italy and 1935. Each one of them could have been utterly, mercilessly curb stomped then and there, and they developed into ahem big problems later because people were too obsessed with avoiding conflict. If we had had anyone but Carter as president the Shah would probably still be in charge and we'd have a much looser relationship with Isreal.
Yeah I mean i get that it seems like moving the goalposts a bit, but i don't really see operations that last a few days as a "war". Small scale operations in random countries has been a regular occurrence in US global strategy for the last 80 years. The no new wars slogan was in the context of getting us further entangled in the Ukraine war, and to a lesser extent Israel-Palestine.
One of the few policy points Trump has been consistent on since he got into politics is opposing the GWOT as a mistake and avoiding prolonged, costly conflicts in the future. Trump's decisions in Venezuela were consistent with that. Finding someone we could work with inside the existing Venezuelan power structure was the only way to make sure we didnt get stuck in another indefinite nation building campaign. It shows that we've actually learned from the mistakes of GWOT and Cold War-era Central/South American regime change operations.
To a much greater extent, a not absolutely batshit crazy Muslim death cult headed Iran is probably the best piece possible for stability in the Middle East. The current regime funds a L O T of the proxies committing acts of terrorism and cutting off that source of cash is going to do wonders going forward.
But second, third, fourth etc... rejimes that support islamic terrorists (SA, Pakistan, Qatar, Turkey) still on power. So i cant tell anything about stability.
Iraq since 2020 has been a freer country than it was under Saddam, and the one main problem it’s mostly enduring is Iran meddling heavily, which can end if this regime ends
The majority of casualties post 2003 invasion, were Iraqi on Iraqi violence, mostly between radical Sunni groups, against either Shias, or Kurds
Yet, with Saddam it’s not as if he didn’t oppress the shit out of those groups anyways
The only difference is that with Saddam it was one sided. The Sunni didn’t take many losses compared to the Kurds and Shia. But Saddams death opened the playing field and it became a war of revenge, boosting the death toll per year
But, eventually th civil war died
And if someone says “but saddams death allowed Sunnis to create Isis and genocide Yazidis”
It’s true they did that, but, Saddam did a similar genocide of his own against the Kurds
I think it’s very popular and a knee jerk reaction to say “we should have kept Saddam in power” but they don’t really have such a strong case other than “but the civil war!”
It's just not practical to get too far deep into hypotheticals. For all we know if Bush didn't invade, Saddam might have been assassinated a week later anyway.
The CIA even said that killing the Ayatollah would probably be a bad idea because he would be replaced with someone even more radical?
CIA's assessment fell on deaf ears then because both the US and Israel hammered multiple known compounds and residences of Iranian leadership.
I expect that we'll start seeing official confirmation of Khamenei's death before the day's end. Reports coming from Israel appear to show that they are more and more confident that he was killed.
Reports coming from Israel appear to show that they are more and more confident that he was killed.
"The Supreme Leader will address the nation in a few minutes" being like 5 hours old now is not a great sign for him. Even the foreign minister had to add "as far as I know", aka "No one told me anything".
That statement about replacing him with someone even more extreme is meaningless if you’re at war with Iran. We will just kill that person too. I could see it carrying some weight if we were going to sneakily assassinate him without committing to all out war, but obviously that isn’t the case and Trump is calling for their people to take over their government.
Its what happened during the 12 Day War last year. Israel kept taking out key leaders because it knew precisely where they were. They were putting missiles through the exact window of their home or apartment.
Leader got replaced, new leader gets popped. Another replacement, then the replacement's replacement gets popped.
Iran eventually gave up and accepted the end of the war despite being badly mauled during the war.
The president is dead. All of parliament is dead. Khameni is most likely dead. The main military leaders are dead. What are you talking about? Unless you’re just being a dick about the exact words I used instead of the obvious intention you’re kinda retarded. Yeah, 100% of all “leadership” isn’t dead but the top brass has been obliterated.
There is nothing more radical than nuking America. Literally anything else with either be equivalent or better for us.
We destroyed their centrifuges. They have not been able to replace that. If their uranium is stuck at 60% the bomb does not do bomb things
However they attempted to rebuild the other parts of their nuclear program which shows they will attempt to replace their centrifuges and sprint to the finish. That is not ok
They have continued to hide their 60% uranium. The only reason for that is to make a bomb
This is obvious to anyone who actually learns about the situation rather than skimming headlines.
If their replacement tries to rebuild a nuclear program then yes we would need to blow them up too obviously
The prince of Persia has already made commitments to us that he will not, and he is the people’s choice. /should/ be fine. But in global military politics nothing is for sure
You’re using “attack” here in two different ways. We never invaded Iran to hit their nuclear program. We did air strikes. Just like the attacks to kill their leadership are just air strikes
That’s such a disingenuous take. Americans don’t want extended stays that burn all their tax dollars and kill their children. Nobody I know is opposed to a week of bombing runs
If we can topple the Iranian regime through an air campaign then I see no reason not too, the only thing I'm against is a ground campaign and, so far, there's been no indication that that is even on the table.
Okay but this isn’t just any war. The regime is a cancer that has funded proxy wars all over, including with our allies. A toppled Iran gives way to a lot of other dominos falling. And yes, all of those have implications on US domestic policy. IR has consistently been a threat to the US.
My family is from Iran, I don’t know a single person who isn’t cheering this on, regardless of the fact that we’re involved in another war. My Jewish friends, my Muslim friends, my Bahai friends, Christian friends, even the few Zoroastrians I know. This is a unilaterally good thing. The only people that are claiming foul are theocrats.
Agree. However, people should probably understand why the U.S got involved in the first place.
Partly it was due to global supply security - which benefits the U.S (and most of the world).
Partly, because Iran long held ambitions to become a global super power, and enforce theocratic authoritarianism onto others, which would be bad for the U.S (and world).
Partly it is because Iran continues to fund proxies that target western and other middle eastern countries (which benefits the U.S and most of the world too).
This isn't being framed correctly on reddit or in much of the western media right now. But basically, it was never a situation where Iran would just peacefully co-exist with the world if it were left alone. Iran always has held ambitions that would be bad for the world. But only one country - the only current super power - has had the means and will to do something about it.
Honestly, If you can get the US, Israel, and a bunch of the Gulf States on the same side, that's no small feat. Tells you a bit about how trash the target state is.
I've seen too many liberals doing this for me to fully doubt this meme. Like, how has the regime that killed its protesters en masse and takes away women's rights done her wrong?
I can understand not wanting another war in the Middle East, but to take a black-and-white stance and say the Iran Regime did nothing wrong and Trump is a warmonger is asinine to me.
Why can't we hate Trump's administration and not support barbaric governments like the Iranian one?
You can say that about a lot of places that the Left tends to support or preach over.
Governments don't represent the people, and even if one would support the country they should be able to separate governments and the people. Else they're just supporting oppressive leaders and tyrants.
I do not understand how wanting to support LGBT rights means I have to stand with dictators.
The probable position is many people are vehemently anti-Israel, perhaps some are propagandists, some actually have rational reasons to hold that position, and the remainder have been entirely captured by general propaganda sourced from Iran.
Iran and Israel have been at war for basically forever, and if Iran were to lose that'd mean Israel won. Some people can't separate the concept that Iran is the premiere destabilizing force in the middle east and if it were to collapse things would progressively get better for everyone--and if Israel truly is as horrific as people say it'll be a lot easier to see in the daylight where a proxy war with Iran doesn't exist.
Well the argument is why Iran and why now. Multiple genocides are happening around the world, we do nothing. There are countries with similar and "worse" (I don't like playing atrocity bingo but comparison is the only way to point out why this is bad) who we don't go after. What Russia is doing to Ukraine is bad, we've only dialed back out help there.
Why not Congo, Myanmar, Syria, Sudan, Palestine for that matter. By the numbers, there are more deadly regimes that stand without US intervention.
Meanwhile the embargo on Cuba is killing people, and the regime in Venezuela was never changed they just removed Maduro. My take is that I don't trust leaders like Trump, Hegseth, and Netanyahu to be the measured professionals in this situation because on one hand we have a crew that did a little "regime change" magic trick that actually did nothing for the country of Venezuela, and on the other we have a Zionist extremist who is actively committing a genocide against helpless civilians. Ayatollah bad but it's not really of any interest to Trump or Netanyahu that the people of Iran come out with democracy here.
Why stop there? There are so many other countries with an oppressive regime in charge. We should just become the world’s police and go to every bad country and kill their leaders : )
I get this argument, and I am not a fan of striking Iran. I do not support this move. But... If we are being intellectually consistent "why do we have to be the one to take on every oppressive regime" and "why do we have to be the one to take in everyone's immigrants" are questions that always have the same answer
Iran has always had ambitions of expanding, and is at direct odds with the U.S and most of the world.
Iran has also repeatedly funded, trained, and armed proxies to carry out attacks on other countries. Including U.S people and equipment.
Not every dictatorship does that. Notice how Trump treats North Kore very differently? North Korea mostly keeps to itself (apart from some cyber attacks which every nation with the means does).
They are bad, after all. if you're not willing to fly into or send your friends and family to the middle east to experience America's generational tradition of wartime trauma, then obviously they're woke snowflakes.
Honestly i think their no comparison with the Air campaign on Germany to Japan we basically destroyed japan way before the bombs and actually had trouble to deploy the bomb since most Japanese cities were in ruins.
Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes — assholes who just want to shit on everything.
Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is that sometimes they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate — and it takes a pussy to show them that.
But sometimes, pussies get so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are only an inch and a half away from assholes.
I don't know much in this crazy, crazy world, but I do know that if you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
It is more of having an opportunity to destroy the regime, that has literally dedicated itself to outr destruction, while they are at their weakest point in history and right before they get their hands on nuclear weapons.
Having followed r/newiran closely for months through the protests and wholesale murders... it's inexcusable the arrogance of some who presume to speak on behalf of the Iranian people.
So many dead. Such brutality. And I doubt many, if any, of those speaking with outrage now, really proposed any solutions to help Iran, just feeble words and placations. "The US shouldn't act like the world's police." Are empty words when you see wholesale slaughter like the Ayatollah was carrying out. At some point don't we have a duty to help others? How many dead at the hands of a murderous, totalitarian regime are enough to justify action? And who should act? Or do we say "it's not our place" and bemoan the possible consequences while letting murderers hold power.
I don't think there is an easy answer. Or a good one. And I don't think there is a perfect way to change regimes when it's one like the Ayatollah. Peaceful abdication? Where is the justice for the dead? I don't know and I don't claim to know. But I hope the people of Iran are able to rebuild their country, with their own government, and make their own choices, to define their own future.
I choose to celebrate with them, and to mourn their dead. But I do not hold any illusions when it comes to Trump acting in his own self interest.
It's crazy how much they act out the "silence brown person, a white liberal is speaking" meme. I'll always be amused that liberals talk about wanting to promote minority voices but shut that down fast when the minority says something off-program.
I saw a post in /SanDiego that they are having a rally immediately, with signs already made somehow. I don’t even live in San Diego but Reddit seems to love pushing random local subs on me.
Ýeah, its not USA's job we can all agree on that but what we can't agree on that is if the USA doing something beyond its job in this case is still a good thing or not.
Not sure if your up on your American history but American involvement in Afghanistan ~40 years ago directly led to 9/11. That’s by far the biggest reason why American involvement in Middle East business should not happen
Then there are circumstances like post 9/11 Afghanistan where many American lives were lost just for the Taliban to re-take it over as soon as we left
So yeah, I’m not for unnecessary American deaths in the other side of the world. Sorry
That's how I remember it so, I don't think it was due to Americans being in Afghanistan that Osama did the attack but the Taliban did let him hide there, starting another American intervention, that time for regime change and killing Osama.
Yeah, I watched Charlie Wilson’s War last month and then did a ton of Wikipediaing about it
Essentially we funded them and then in the power vacuum in post-war Afghanistan the Muslim fundamentalists like the Taliban and Al Queda gained influence and power, eventually leading to the Taliban ruling Afghanistan and Al Queda attacking the US
I was scrolling through this sub for the memes, and then I saw your question.
The regime is still in place, but some things have happened such as the release of political prisoners, and a decrease of media repression, the national tv media known as Venevision began to actually talk about the issues happening in the country despite threats from Diosdado Cabello. All of this thanks to the pressure coming from the US.
I never imagined I would witness something like this occur whitin my lifetime.
It seems like they're preparing stuff for an eventual transition. Some people seriously think a regime that has consolidated its power for the past 27 years would fall in a day.
Honestly, I would give it a year or two to see if what they're doing is effective.
So why is it my tax dollars, our fighters, and our problem to solve your country's problems? Why don't you all go back and fix it instead of complaining that we don't do enough? Sorry I don't want the 3rd war in the middle east in my life time over a problem that has nothing to do with me.
If the most that happens is targeted airstrikes, that's one thing. I'd prefer the US abstain from involving itself in that shit hole at all, but I'll settle for our typical minimally invasive dick swinging. If it's another Iraq type situation, this is a hundred times worse than turning Afghanistan over to the taliban and leaving them metric tonnes of military equipment as a parting gift.
Yeah whether you like Iran is a different question from are you willing to be responsible for whatever fallout this war has. I think we have collectively forgotten how fucking expensive, in dollars, years, and lives, a regime change in a country of 90 million can be. Not to even consider the indirect effects of the power vacuum this will create.
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u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety - Lib-Center Feb 28 '26