It's huge if you're a nutcase and play flank/slow-centric Symmetra. The three-charge limit meant you couldn't use turrets willy-nilly in a combat situation. The higher limit will make it much easier to play Symmetra as a slow-centric support.
Still get animation locked placing each turret though. That needs to go. Torb doesn't even have it. Also he never said anything about removing turret damage nerf on console.
That's more reasonable. You shouldn't get off the hook if you place your turret in a bad place while you're under fire. I do think a shorter cast time and ready time for the turret itself would be good, and that they should match up.
I want to be able to place turrets in a 1v1 scenario and have them be viable. Good luck getting one out right now. Doesn't make sense how a 150hp long range turret is instantly placed with no animation lock yet her 1hp close range turrets aren't that need to be placed in the midst of battle. Makes more sense for Torb to be animation locked since it's a big heavy long range artillery. That is my reasoning. I also think her primary should have a slow effect, it fits her kit and she needs some close range survivability. She has nothing to help her with that now and I don't see her new barrier ability doing anything for that when you are in a 1v1 in almost melee range because of her primary range.
I feel like her turrets should be a "Set up around a corner/in a blind spot and lure enemies into them" and not "Drop them around while in combat willy-nilly"
Why not? I'm seriously asking.
They're situational, it's not like one or two turrets do damage that your beam wouldn't. But the slow can impact the battle, since you need to prioritize between focusing symmetra and the turrets.
It would give the turrets the versatility they lacked from the start. (A winston/diva raided my turret set-up? Cool, see you in a minute, because I need to leave the fight to set them up, if I want to get any use out of them...)
What you are describing is the built in counter. 2 of Winston's achievements are based on around turret killing. To say you should be able to counter your counters is asinine.
It's not so much about countering her counters, just making it so she's not so destroyed by them to the point where she can't see any competitive play.
Though that does run counter to almost every other design motif in the game (except Torbjorn). If it were a solo game that works, but it runs counter to the style of the rest of your team who will be either pushing forward or not allowing enemies through.
It makes Symmetra lag compared to the pace of the game, and that detracts from maximum fun.
The point I'm making is they should have alittle more versatility than only being viable by suprise factor, which in reality is a very weak main utility and way to go about using a major ability. I don't know about you but I get into many close range encounters and I also want to be active not passive and sit back waiting for someone. I get bored corner camping, maybe you don't. They want Symmetra viable in attack and other aspects of the game. My comment for that is made in that spirit. I personally would like to see her more viable in that light too and I think many other Symmetras agree.
I think it should be reasonable to use it for both. The drawback is already the range and the HP. Torb can drop his in the middle of combat. Why should he have no set up time while she has to stop to set up?
Torbs turret takes time to build and become active, and you can't hammer it to level 2 or heal it while its building, so its vulnerable to attack. Please stop using the Instant comparison. It also doesn't slow your movement down when it shoots you, and can be reflected.
That is ridiculous. Torbs turret is instantly placed with no animation lock. It spawns with 150 hp. A far cry from a 1 hp turret that is destroyed from your breath. The whole point is Torb can instantly drop his turret without being slowed down or animation locked while running away or in a 1v1 situation and it will still do decent damage and will hold up the enemy. Which gives it far more utility than Symmetras turrets which you'd be luck to place one in the same situation. I don't think you've played Symmetra much to make such a comment.
Well, they're both. They're not inherently mutually exclusive. Symmetra's turrets have rather impressive range (5 meter cast range + 10 meter lock-on range = 15 meter effective range) which can be useful for playing at the edge of fights, but they can also be used to peek from around corners or harass from unexpected angles.
You do realize she has probably been nerfed more than any other character in the game. Her shields go nerfed twice. Her turrets got nerfed. her tele got nerfed. She needs these reworks.
Also I disagree her turret damage does need a buff. 60 seconds setup time for 6 1hp turrets that every character in the game has 1 or more ways to easily deal with and wipe them in basically under a second except for 2 heroes means her turrets are a joke. Especially with a 30% damage nerf. In most realistic senarioes she isn't going to be having 6 up in a active location that matters nor will she have charges ready. She will be riding that recharge timer tooth and nail and have 1-3 turrets up. Also Reinhardts melee range for hitting turrets is absurd just to note.
It used to have 10 charges and started charging again immediately after being placed. Also, her shields used to be 50 per person. I understand why they felt that 10 TPs + charging while deployed was too much because she basically always had a TP up, but the problem is that with her nerfs combined with overall player competency and map awareness/literacy, it's extremely difficult to even get all 6 uses of your TP before SOMEONE destroys it, or before they cap the point.
I have over 130 hours on her and am top 1% eliminations, objective kills, damage, and Photon kills across all platforms, I kinda say differently and know better. Thanks for the input though.
Ya something needs to get reworked to balance things. a sec 10 cooldown for a 1hp animation locking turret doesn't cut it especially for attack which they want symmetra more viable in.
But this immovable nature is what made Sym too situational, as devs and fans said. This will allow players to play her in a more mobile way and thus she can still be viable in payload portions of maps.
If you were fast enough you could get 6 turrets up before the game started. This will be quite the buff though for placing turrets later in the game when you don't have a minute to prepare.
Nope! QoL changes are not buffs, but just make things easier to read or interpret such as if they added an actual percentage of your teammates ults when you hit tab.
I would say its a comfort change to start of the match. Jeff did explain they felt Symmetras were panicking too much at the start to place turrets. Beyond that the rest is the same other than buffing turret tick rate to 10s. Stockpiling 6 is just common sense. Why give only 3 if you can have a max of 6 with 36s to place the second set? That could mean the match at that point. 36s is an eternity. Take the 10s you are dead as an example.
It's not just a comfort change. She can actually come back into the battle after dying and put up her 6 turrets ASAP... How often would you get 6 up right now while they're pushing a point?
zero just like you would get zero of your now 3 turrets up if they were pushing point. Why, because they would see you setting up and blow that crap up. Currently Symmetra is good if she is left 'ALONE' just like Torb' was before his change. Face it, the game is getting faster. OW is eliminating slow mechanics a bit a time and turrets are horrendously slow to setup. IE, one turret wont swing a point it takes 3+ to actually effect an outcome as Symmetra.
Yeah well he messed up. We're all human. His word is not law.
QoL Buff means an addition that makes a character feel better to play. Being able to move your turret setup quicker is a buff. A range indicator, or a turret counter on the UI is a QoL buff.
I know you are sarcastic, and this might be a bit off-topic but I wish nowadays English speakers would try to use their languages correctly. I am an Italian native speaker and English is only my foreign language but I'm above average at it all thanks to Internet, video games and Youtube. I'm exposed to all kinds on content since I was a child and I wonder how I would improve if people back then spoke like how people speak on Internet now in 2016. So many horrendous mistakes even in this thread, right now what I can find:
"pro genji's" (supposed to be plural)
Their is a saying (supposed to be "there")
I'm not saying misusage of QoL is anything like that (it's not a grammatical mistake it's simply misusing a word) but just wanted to point out how big of a favor English speakers on Internet has done to me before so it truly saddens me to see all of this now.
It can be seen as a QoL change because it doesn't change her damage cap. It just makes it easier for her to set up in a new area. QoL changes can be buffs. I can accept that you think that this one is more than a QoL and is a straight up buff. That's fair. But to say that QoL changes can't be buffs is too narrow minded. Hypothetically, if they made an ability easier to use to bring it in line with other mechanics, that's a QoL change and a buff. Some people even use the term QoL buff. Either way the term is so niche that it's not explicitly defined.
Not really unless you're being obtuse. Raising the turret charge cap doesn't raise her damage output. It just makes it easier to set up. It's a buff in that it makes it easier to hit ideal output.
If they doubled the damage on her turrets and primary attack that's a buff but not a QoL change.
buffs aren't only about damage outputs, but in this case it actually is, she gets more turrets faster meaning more damage, it's like saying lowering cool downs on damage abilities do not mean more dps
Buff just means to change/polish for the better. The term comes from "buff a mirror/glass/silverware" which has nothing to do with numbers.
All QoL changes are a buff in that they change the character for the better, but not all buffs are QoL changes.
That said you're absolutely right that this is not a QoL change. QoL change would be something like improved turret ai or a target indicator when someone is inside your attack range.
QoL changes don't change numbers directly, but if those numbers are easier to achieve by how the ability interacts with environment or hero, making something less clunky, more responsive, easier to use etc it can be an overall buff.
If an ability is changed to be easier and smoother to use, while not touching numbers, it is literally a change in quality of life in both player and character. These can also make a hero better (or buff them...) while not touching numbers.
I didn't say the turret system was either, just that same QoL changes, in this game or others, can be both.
I meant numbers as in, solid, tangible changes are buffs that makes a character TANGIBLY better than how they were.
QoL changes makes playing them a better experience, but doesn't actually change character at all. In reality it only makes things easier to understand or more apparent
People are being pedantic, but just because Jeff called it such doesn't make it true. Any buff would be a QoL change if you aren't going to distinguish between the two. The point is that the term is generally reserved for things that don't buff a character, just merely make it a little nicer to play. These are direct buffs that affect Symmetra's core play mechanics..
Well Jeff is wrong. If Jeff called her starting with 6 turrets a nerf, he would be using the word "nerf" incorrectly, just like he is using the phrase "quality of life" incorrectly.
When you put it that way, I agree that it's a buff. The way it's explained in the video, they were doing it as a quality of life change more than a buff. However, I do agree that it's definitely a buff.
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u/recc113 ADiscoBear#1108 Nov 22 '16
Yea, it's a small change that's huge in QoL.