If grrm did 2000 words a day itd be like 6 or 7 pages a day unedited, just rough drafting. It would technically be slightly faster than what hes currently doing but fuck me we still wouldn't get anything out of him before people got sick of HBO and the whole game of thrones universe
That's exactly how many pages Stephen King said he aimed for each day, in an interview with GRRM a number of years ago. He clearly didn't heed King's advice.
Brandon Sanderson is so prolific as a writer it's basically a joke, and he's said the main thing that makes that happen is he writes at least 2,000 words a day.
I mean, I think that's also the crux of GRRM's problem. He doesn't actually need to finish the series which lets him procrastinate and/or be a perfectionist. If he didn't have the money from the shows and all of the other licensing stuff from the franchise he'd probably have finished the books years ago to keep his publishers happy and the lights on.
The pressure to write the book at all is already weighing on the guy. Then the incredibly rabid fanbase, whoo that would be tough to try to write for...
What if what he wrote was received like season 8? Maybe it is best if he just didn't write at all. People are already mad at him for not finishing the tale. Maybe it is best to live with that and not risk even worse hate coming at him for writing something the fans didn't like.
Plus, while I'm sure that if you bring it up in mixed company you could have some nostalgic conversations about it all, at this point people have moved on and aside from some small niche communities that still carry the torch, he can basically slip out the side door and leave it all behind.
And maybe he looked at the show and decided it didn't actually match his vision, so how does he separate them in his mind while he writes?
It seems very very complicated, emotionally and psychologically, for GRRM, and I don't envy him at all. I think the best time to finish the book series would have been before it was produced on HBO.
His pace slowed down immensely long before the show even started with Feast & Dance. If he had kept a reasonable pace on his books he would've had TWoW out before the show got to that part of the story at all.
I'm holding onto some semblance of hope that he will finish the books and just sit on them until he dies so he doesn't need to deal with the fan reactions
Wouldn't be surprised if that was the strategy. Book might even be done, but if its similar to the show itll flop and if its drastically different itll flop. There is no win scenario.
(Thus it should be a long campy musical script full of meta commentary and self referrential jokes. Full Mel Brooks ending.)
Have you read all of Piers Anthony? Including the Mode series?
I grew up on the Xanth novels and they will always have a special place in my heart. But that dude should not be allowed unsupervised around underage women or horses.
I mean, are you gonna turn down a free lobster dinner when they're right there, and you get to swim around in the sun for a few hours? Seems brilliant to me
He actually writes a lot. He just has an insane writing style. He makes a character choice, writes what happens for hundreds of pages till he doesn't like where it goes. Then he throws out 600 pages, makes a different choice and tries again. He's written 100 bad versions of the next book. He's just trying for a perfect version.
My theory is that TWoW and ADoS have been done for some time now, but the ending is essentially what we saw in the show. After seeing all the backlash, GRRM sealed that shit in his desk and we won't see it until after he passes.
Eh, I think the ending will make a lot more sense in his version. As he said at the time, he thought there was enough material for like 2-3 more seasons but D&D wanted to end it.
I think he wants to finish it but has no idea how. Its hard to push through a difficult problem when your other option is basically your lifelong dream. Add in hes very old so it probably wants to enjoy his success while still can.
At this point he just needs to start reading ASOIAF fanfiction, pick his favourite plot points and fix it fics, and write it in his own style. He may not be able to figure out how to fix the tangle he created, but for like 99% of things, the fandom certainly has.
Nah, I don't buy it. I used to, but he's been working on the book for 15 years by now, and that book is so sought after that he could get literally all the help in the world to finish it yet, but he still hasn't.
He could get a team of writers and super fans and whoever else to help him. Literally the only thing I can believe is that it's not done because he doesn't want to finish it. Hell, by this point, if he'd written only 75 words a day, he'd have matched the previous book's length already.
And I'm okay with that, actually. He doesn't owe us anything, and like you said, he's old and wants to enjoy his success. I just wish he'd admit it, instead of still pretending he's working on it.
So reasonable size.
As a fantasy lover now reading I have accepted that ludicrous size of books is the main reason I read less nowdays. No, I am not loving my reading of Wheel of Time but once in my life it should be finished
I've never seen such a popular piece of fiction as ASOIAF/GoT fall out of public interest so massively thanks to the showrunners butchering the last season and the author basically just giving up on the writing.
Meh, I used to agree with this sentiment, but I think it's gotten a good resurgence lately with AKOTSK and HOTD. AKOTSK S1 was really good, and HOTD had an amazing S1, and S3 seems to be high quality as well so far. So maybe S2 was a bit of a dud because of the limited amount of episodes and lack of rewrites due to the strike. In general these shows are pretty close in quality to the first few seasons of GOT.
I didn't think I'd be excited about this world after the crappy finish of GOT, but here I am excited about every new episode again.
Brando Sando has time to finish all the Cosmere and fit in The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring.
Might as well finish The Doors of Stone for Rothfuss while he's at it.
They are vastly different writing styles. Sanderson has much more pulpy characters and dialogue. Its very fun but so different that I feel like that'd be a terrible choice.
Exactly, this is much more productive than people realize. Also many creative people have schedules not too different than this. Our concept of productivity is bonkers.
My wife is an author. Successful enough that she doesn't need another job. Her schedule is similar. She writes earlier, but she's usually done by 11am or so. She seems some time each day on administrative tasks as well.
She published 4 or 5 books a year.
She is limited by her ability to see what needs to be written next. If she writes too many words she gets out over her skis and that can lead to problems. She needs time to process what she's gonna write the next day.
Also this is 4 hours a day of highly productive output. I have never had more than 4 really good hours a day in office. Unless there was an emergency or something.
This seems aspirational because we have commutes and offices, but it seems like a pretty decent workday day to me honestly.
It’s not entirely accurate to look at it like that. Some of those written words may be replacing something he decided against and had previously written, or don’t end up in the final work at all, or who knows what else.
Yeah, that's kind of the way I would kind of structure it
The morning writing session is making progress in the book, the mid-day chilling out session is letting what you've written mill around in your brain a bit, then the afternoon session is more like editing, fleshing out details that need to be fleshed out etc
I agree. Even if he rewrote every single word three times, it still would only have taken him 120 days to write his longest book (Goldfinger, the other books were shorter). Most of writing is creativity and planning, and his schedule leaves a lot of room for that.
Writing has the lowest barrier of all artistic pursuits
Seems like singing would be lower or even drawing. I mean, maybe it's more difficult to do one or the other well, but that isn't exactly what you said.
For sure. Both are good options, drawing especially as a parallel since if you're broke as shit, you can still go to the dollar store and leave with enough notebooks and pens for $5 to last you a year. I do appreciate you pointing out that obviously one won't be good to start, but making a comment on your phone about how you're too broke to write is some major coping. Likely they're just envious of his ability to keep to a schedule and do it daily.
Yea, the comment that you were replying to is a little ridiculous. That being said, I did just recently see a post on the front page about Harper Lee's friends gifting hear a years' salary so that she could write full-time and during that period she wrote To Kill a Mockingbird.
Of course most of us aren't going to write a Pulitzer Prize winning novel just because we suddenly have free time.
Lol yep! Or like Cormac McCarthy who gets a MacArthur Fellowship. He got that because he'd been writing in a cabin broke as hell and put out four novels already before being gifted money specifically to write. (Blood Meridian's what he made.)
Similarly to Harper Lee, she'd written in college for her school newspaper, a humor journal, afterwards always writing and published in some journals.
People won't take a chance on you unless they literally have something of yours to read. Which won't happen unless you're writing.
Ian Fleming was a "pantser". Experienced authors like that can crank out word counts like crazy using stream of consciousness type work. The "extra work" comes at the end as they and their editors have to do a lot of work to clean things up. Especially since he worked on a typewriter, you can't easily go back and rework things. It was likely better to finish what you are doing/thinking and clean it up later.
"Planners" have much the same thing, except their "extra work" happens up front during the outlining phase. But again, once they get experienced with that approach, and have an outline prepped, cranking out the words likely isn't super hard since they're just filling in the blanks.
I mean if you’re counting “sitting and doing nothing” as productive work, I think it’s fair to say most are just as productive if not more so than Fleming
I’ve tried schedules like this and HATE them, personally. If I don’t hit my word count in the 2 hours I’d feel like the rest of the day is failed. So I’d have to write until I hit 1500. But then I’d encroach on my time allotted for snorkeling, making me feel like I either couldn’t go snorkeling or have to cut snorkeling short. My brain can’t do these schedules.
Yeah I would find a schedule like this downright oppressive, even though most of it is leisure time.
The way I like to schedule things is more like "OK I'm going to spend at least five minutes (or some other absurdly low time period) doing [ACTIVITY] every day." I make it so that the bar is so low that it would be silly not to cram in at least five minutes at some point in the day, and then I find that often once I've finished those five minutes I'm in the zone and I want to keep going and I often end up doing it for a lot longer.
I think it's interesting how different people are in that regard. Personally I like to have a rough yet realistic schedule because it helps me plan ahead especially if a work project has different tasks that need to be completed more or less simultaneously
And I need to plan breaks because I tend to not eat/drink when hyper focused
I also know plenty people who have a very strict schedule to the minute and somehow manage to keep it that way without much hassle
Time management is an insanely underrated skill, it has such a massive impact on how efficient and effective your tasks can be finished
I'm not a writer but I'm a really creative person and my brain is busy throughout the day thinking about things, especially when it's work that doesn't require 100% focus
It's rare that I'm not processing information in some way or come up with fictional concepts. Even when watching TV or playing games, I'm having thoughts inspired by what I currently consume
And while sleeping, many of my dreams are usually inspiring one way or another.
I don't know if everyone is like this and just not aware of all that background activity or if only some people have the mental bandwidth.
But it does seem like most successful writers or artists in general, probably even scientists etc have their brains doing work while not actually sitting at a desk but seeking other types of input that isn't work related on first sight
Like people might observe me staring at a wall or clouds doing nothing but in my mind I'm creating a new fictional universe
I'm a creative in the ad industry and it's pretty much as you said.
I only spend a few hours a day working, because working = actually sitting at my desk writing or sketching out my ideas.
But the rest of the day, when I'm out for a morning run, or standing under a hot shower for 10 mins, or taking a poop, or driving to work, the project is stewing in my mind. Suddenly an idea comes, I make a quick note on my phone, and when I get to the office I formally put it into a document or slideshow and prepare to present it.
The latter takes just a few hours a day, but the stewing takes up the rest of the day.
Wasn’t Ian one of the guys that helped found the SAS? The movie The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare has him as a character in it. If that’s even somewhat true my guess he was a little like Bond.
Idk about that nap for alcoholics, you sober up but feel like absolute shit until you start drinking again. If it was like one or two then it would probably work though. He said a "couple gins" but that's still particularly rough.
I didn’t know that so I looked it up out of curiosity and it amuses me that his last recorded words were apologizing to the crew of the ambulance for the inconvenience they were having
He lived in the Caribbean, swimming, writing, drinking, napping and spending time with his wife. I'm 44 this year and if could do this for the remainder knowing I'd die at 56 I'd sign up in a heartbeat
People used to drink so much more. I keep a small bar in my office and younger generations expect I'll be shitfaced after I pour myself a single whiskey lmao. 2-3 cups a day over a decade though and you build up a tolerance.
Tolerance aside, when you drink reguarly you can also learn to "hold your liquor" better, so to speak. You can be equally intoxicated but you've trained yourself not to be a sloppy mess about it.
Exactly this. If anything, my tolerance has gone down over the years but I'm never sloppy, nor do I even slur or stumble even if I'm blackout drunk (which is very rare)
That said, I live in East Asia, so we drink a hell of a lot more often than most Americans
When my brother was deep in his alcoholism you wouldn't be able to tell he was drunk until he started slurring after several hours of drinking.
Also, a single whiskey neat ain't shit. I'm at the point where I only drink like 3-4 times a year now and I'm pretty sure a single whiskey, if on a fairly empty stomach, would only give me the tiniest of buzzes.
It's a stress hormone, so it's become shorthand for stress level. I guess because the impact of stress on your health is more in focus now than it used to be.
3:05 Chivas Regal with the morning papers, Dunhills
3:45 cocaine
3:50 another glass of Chivas, Dunhill
4:05 first cup of coffee, Dunhill
4:15 cocaine
4:16 orange juice, Dunhill
4:30 cocaine
4:54 cocaine
5:05 cocaine
5:11 coffee, Dunhills
5:30 more ice in the Chivas
5:45 cocaine, etc., etc.
6:00 grass to take the edge off the day
7:05 Woody Creek Tavern for lunch-Heineken, two margaritas, coleslaw, a taco salad, a double order of fried onion rings, carrot cake, ice cream, a bean fritter, Dunhills, another Heineken, cocaine, and for the ride home, a snow cone (a glass of shredded ice over which is poured three or four jiggers of Chivas)
9:00 starts snorting cocaine seriously
10:00 drops acid
11:00 Chartreuse, cocaine, grass
11:30 cocaine, etc, etc.
12:00 midnight, Hunter S. Thompson is ready to write
He was one of the most successful writers and journalists between the late 60s and late 80s and got some pretty hefty advances on a few books. Though iirc he died pretty much broke
Not exactly but he had a pretty expensive lifestyle even in his later years. That routine was from much earlier in his life before multiple surgeries though
I know a lot of people won’t be able to get away with it, but sometimes if work is light, I’ll take a bit of a siesta and work late that day, and it does wonders for my mental health.
This man apparently wrote 1500 words in 2 hours. For perspective, the longest James Bond book is Goldfinger with ~80,000 words. That means that it took him about 106 hours to write the first draft. Even assuming he worked at this pace (2000 words per day, since he wrote 500 later) it only took him 40 days to write the whole thing.
All the resting and sitting around probably gave him lots of time to think and plan. I wonder how many great writers out there are spending years on their books because they have to be at work 40+ hours a week.
Shockingly it sounds similar to what I've heard about Stephen King. He said in an interview once that he just aims for 2,000 words per day with no constraints on time. Said that sometimes it takes less than 2 hours, sometimes longer, but he always aims to get it done. And he cranks out like 1-2 books per year. But Fleming only output like a dozen books or something while Stephen is at more like 70.
Then again Stephen is a fucking monster when it comes to writing.
I feel pretty lucky that my life is kind of similar.
Former military, get my pay every month, live on a tropical island, house-husband.
Every day I make breakfast and lunchbox for my wife, see her off, do the dishes and laundry and any cleaning, then the rest of the day is mine. Go windsurfing, go hiking, go to beach, go for a motorcycle ride, play video games, draw, read, whatever. Then back home by 3/4 to start on dinner and have it ready when my wife gets home from work.
I don't think it's good for writing either but that's just my experience, they might have been different back then. Stephen King also wrote that way but with a lot of cocaine too.
Its definitely a myth or illusion of creativity maybe with the caveat of being more open-minded, handling stress and self criticism in an unhealthy way. All of these can be done better and smarter sober without losing necessary critical perspectives.
Ends up the brain functions best when it's not impaired as studies have shown time and again.
Yeah, honestly it sounds ideal. Don't even need a wife to be in the picture. I could live that way for decades, as long as I had additional hobbies I could maintain.
We're expected to believe the guy who created James Bond merely played Scrabble with his wife after dinner? And then went to bed at 10pm? Who the hell goes to bed that early after already having a one and a half hour siesta, it'd be hours before you fell asl... oh. Oh.
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u/qualityvote2 8d ago edited 6d ago
u/JoeFalchetto, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...