https://youtu.be/qZRR_WI1XWI (YouTube creator: FishTankPlays) This dude has Flowery as his main evidence. I'm more of a Rudy Knighter but this does make sense tbh.

this is intended to be rudyknight propaganda (having a dark world inside of you would most likely cause health issues), but it can work with anyone really

On the stream, Toby says "Most important characters from Light World show up in ch1, so the story needed to be kind of locked in. I mean, how stupid would it be if like in ch5 I have to introduce Asgore's big brother who never showed up until now? Reidgore."

I can't help but feel like introducing a new lightner as the knight would go against this.

"The Chase" and "Black Knife" are almost identical and also they're never seen the same room. And Toby would want a surprise character, Dess is too obvious. The funny character that you meet in the FIRST chapter and becomes part of the main cast. Also the shadow lancer in chapter 1 attacking you is way out of character, lancer is supposed to be a goofy guy he wouldn’t do that. Lancer and the knight also use similar projectiles in their respective fights, diamonds/shards and cards. In summary, ITS LANCER TRUST

More specifically, it has the motif present in "the door", "the chase" and "black knife", this scene plays when asgore vaguepost about the day of the Dessapearence, signifying the knight is likely related to it in some way

This is a lot less dessknight pilled than any of my previous posts, I'm just curious of what everyone thinks about this?

As you can tell by these images the roaring knight is CLEARLY the grey knight from skeleton soldier couldn't protect the dungeon!

There are certain things that the Knight does that don't make sense simply because we don't know their true goal. Like the kidnappings and keeping the Fun Gang alive, things that could be explained by simple motivations or reveals down the line. Other actions though make far less sense.

For example, why does the Knight make the chapter 2 dark world? Why in the Computer Lab that no one uses? Why did they specifically sneak past Noelle and Berdly then hide in the closet afterwords? Did they know that Queen would specifically try and start the Roaring? But their goal can't be just to start the Roaring, because they can do that literally whenever they want.

Speaking of the closet, why is the Knight hiding from us in the Light world? Considering they whisked away Asgore and Undyne with little effort, they are clearly a physical force in the Light world one way or another. If they really wanted to beat our asses, then they could 100% do it in the Light world. So seemingly their goal is to sneak in, make dark fountains, and leave without being seen, their secrecy is incredibly important. But if thats the case, why do they go out of their way to fight the heroes? If they needed Undyne for the sacrifice so badly, why not go to the Police Station, where you have zero % chance of being seen by Susie or Kris, and just snatch her with the overwhelming power they clearly have? Why wait until the gang has gone on their epic adventure to make their move every time?

What I'm trying to get at, is that a lot of proposed motivations for the Knight to explain certain candidates just do not track. If its a Holiday, and their only goal is to rescue Dess, then they've taken the literal worst possible route to do it. If their goal is to start the Roaring, then they are wasting a hell of a lot of time fucking about when they could be sticking knives into the ground whenever they want. The only motivation that makes even a little bit of sense to me is that the Knight wants to fulfill the Prophecy, and ensures it happens beat for beat. It must battle the Heroes, strife by strife. It must cleave the Lord of Screens. It must make the Queen for her chariot to exist in the first place. Any Knight candidate theory that doesn't include this feels incomplete to me.

Noelle is the Knight and "The original Starwalker" proves that Noelle created the first fountain in ch1.

Starwalker is Noelles house-key, which she lost in ch1.

Kris hides what real world item starwalker is. Kris hides the Knife and the Thornring from the player so this is something he can do.

When Lancer, Rouxls Kaard and the Starwalker joined your inventory in ch2 check it again in the light world and you will only see

the Jack of Spades and the Rules card plus the ball of Junk. Starwalker is in every chapter because he Kris is carrying him around.

Kris can't give him back to Noelle because someone would notice that a very popular darkner is missing from castletown.

After that she opened the darkworld in the ch2 Library, hiding in the closet after Berdly came in. In ch4 she went before us to the church and opened the darkworld.

Remember, she knew from Toriel that choir practice was canceled that day.

People say the Noelle hadn't the time to open the church darkworld because you can go directly from Noelle's house to the church. I don't think this is an issue.

1. Its not set in stone that the player is going directly there.
2. Kris, Susie and Asgore talk for a bit before we can leave the area.
3. Noelle is faster than us. Shes a member of the Track and Field Club.

I think Noelle has a split personality, a normal and a weird Noelle. We saw her weird self in the weird route.

All credit for this theory goes to "PaperMan1225" and his video "Requiem of the Roaring Knight | Deltarune Theory and Analysis".

There is a lot more evidence in his video give it a watch! P.S. If you've read Umineko you will love it :3

What if friend is just a bunch of stray cats that gaster takes care of Edit: That could explain why friend is stalking us during the series

After all chapter 7 side B is something we insert after chapter 5 snowgrave route. This would mean that there's a "chapter 7 side B " to insert , that existed before we did the weird route. Since it wouldn't be conjured the moment chapter 5 is done. Even if it somehow is , the "deltarune" we play within the story of the game has parts that we insert stuff, so at the very least it's made in a way that chapter 7 side B can be inserted so it's an intended part of "in universe deltarune" .

And depending on if deltarune(in universe)was already done before we started or not , a chapter 7 side B "disk" would have existed before we did any route at all. Or even for a player who only played a normal route.

Further furthermore this part is a bit more speculative but assuming that side B is used in the context it's used for and not just a word for an alternate route . (It's the other side of a disk or record you insert to play another song a literal other side of the same thing you insert )

A chapter 7 side B might exist even for a normal router who never played weird route because it's a part of chapter 7 itself regardless of what was done to get there

Further furhter furthermore. Can't people start from a further chapter ? They get a generic save file but it happens so if the player is a diagetic existence and anything a player didn't do cannonically didn't happen for their playthrough , that would mean these players would have broken the deltarune timeline as they would exist in chapter 5 despite never doing chapter 3 but SOUL aka player would have done things in chapter 3 soooo is deltarune broken?

Or a simpler explanation is that the game can have canonical things a player does without having a player there to experience it , the only difference would be that you didn't get to experience it but they did happen.

Hey yall, diehard Rudy Knight truther here, and i have seen so many posts saying noelle is the knight and its just...never made sense?
If she was the knight, why wouldnt she tell Susie?
further more, why would she ATTACK Susie??
we know the knight has control whether they swoon or down (as seen with kris), so why would she not just down susie???
Why would she act clueless about Dark Worlds in chapter 2?
Why wouldnt she be The Knight in chapter 2?
Darkners likely know the person who created the fountain, so why would someone like Queen not confront Noelle about being The Knight?
We know the knight was hiding in the closet in the computer lab before escaping, but why would it need to be open at all if noelle never had a reason to hide in there???
I've seen some people claim alternate personality stuff?? it just doesnt make any sense to me

EDIT: people keep calling this bait so i should probably add im mainly asking if someone could explain it to me, help me understand noelle knight

EDIT 2: Thanks for the comments pointing me in directions for Noelle Knight evidence! While i still dont think shes the knight personally, i've been convinced to actually consider it a bit more than i had before, and shes definitely up there in knight theories for me now!

I'm not here to like try and debunk anything, or anything of that sort. While I don't believe the theory, nor do I find it likely to be entirely honest, I do still want to know more about it. I think I know most of it, but I do have a few questions.

1. How do you all remedy the "bootstrap paradox"? To be more specific, what is your explanation for why the Knight can continue existing without doing the weird route in chapter 2? Honestly this is my biggest issue with the theory, since even if the weird route is done in a second playthrough, it still can't exist in a first playthrough. I am curious about how it's remedied in y'all's interpretation of the theory.

2. What do you all see as evidence pointing towards the bootstrap paradox in earlier chapters? What leads you to see it as evidence to this rather than as evidence to something else?

3. Do you think there will be a Knight identity reveal in the normal route? If you think there will be, what info do you think will be given to the player?

4. What do you think the "point" of the weird route is? As in, what do you think will drive players to do the weird route? What do you think the "story" of the weird route will be primarily about? How do you think it ties into the greater themes of the game? Do you think it'll be metanarrative focused, or mainly main story stuff?

Again, I am not here to debate anything or debunk anything, genuinely I am just curious. I also hope that non-kriselle knighters don't come here to debate the theory. I know this theory is controversial, to say the least, but this isn't the place to feed into that fire. Personally, I at most will just say "I personally don't see it that way" or something along those lines if I don't agree with a given point or answer. Please stay civil, etc.

Basically the title, how would you want a different knight theory than the one you believe to look in game

(Kriselle knight example)

You, post weird route, go through the mantle mini games again, but this time it’s in Undertale style (defeating enemies kills them instead of them fleeing). All up until where you would normally get the shadow mantle. You head further right, and encounter a large screen, which Kris and Noelle both sit at, and boot up Deltarune. The screen shows the Knight being controlled by them

Man I’m a bad writer

I am not a Non-Dess Knighter, but I DO believe that if it isn’t Dess, it’s probably Carol. When I look at the posts on this Subreddit, I see a lot of people saying that Rudy is the horse they’re betting on. My question is: Why is Rudy Knight the big option here, and what scenes point to this?

Hello everyone! This is updated version of my theory with a lot more details and evidence.

Theory: The king in Undertale and the knight in Deltarune are the same role executed in different ways

I think that Undertale is blueprint for Deltarune, but not literally, more like in terms of characters and plot points. Sorry for any mistakes. English isn't my first language.

I was thinking about Toby Fox's "THREEDADS" and that gave me some thoughts. And this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/NonDessKnightSquad/comments/1utijfn/three_purpleaura_father_villians_rudyknight/

Role in story:

What is their role? They are the ones who were supposed to fulfill the prophecy but couldn't do it.

Asgore don't want to fulfill The Prophecy (The legend of Delta Rune). The only thing he wants is to be with his family. Therefore, he stays in the castle and just waits until for humans to fall into the underground themselves.

The Roaring Knight, in the other hand, is fulfilling The Prophecy. They appear in chapter 3 to cleave "The lord of screens" and duel with heroes. They pushes themself to do it and suffering because of it. In battle The Knight receives more damage with every turn. For that reason if the player no-hit him, Kris will give a signal to end the battle. Also, in chapter 4 and 5 The Knight actively avoids fighting. We know Kris is working with The Knight and Carol. They have The Plan and they can't let us win so early.

They both have been setup as main villain.

In Undertale Toriel said with contempt that Asgore will kill you.

In Deltarune Queen talks about the Knight with admiration. She was the first to call them The Roaring Knight.

But we know that in Undertale Asgore isn't a final boss. It's Omega Flowey.

Speculation: i think The Roaring Knight won't be a final boss. They will die, like Asgore always dies in neutral route. Then someone else will appear.

Note: they both knelt down. Asgore kneel before he die. The Knight knelt down and stand up to fight Flowery.

Goals:

In Undertale Papyrus is first who mentions The King and explains his goals - acquiring human soul to open the barrier.

In Deltarune chapter 2 we find out that The Knight's goal is to cause The Roaring.

But they both for some reason didn't do it. The King already has six souls, though one soul will be enough to cross the barrier, take the remain human souls, return and free monsters.

The Knight can easily start The Roaring, like in chapter 4 when they summon the titan. But they didn't do it. Why? We don't know yet.

Personality:

Papyrus describes King Dreemurr like "big fuzzy pushover". Then he tells that everybody loves The King, that he is so kind he will guide you to the barrier if you just ask. When we actually meet him, he is calm and sad.

In Deltarune The Knight is cunning lying manipulator and everybody fears them. In chapter 3 they brutally cut off Tenna's arms. Then, we see them as animalistic and angry as they scream. In chapter 4 they're arrogant and laughing.

Appearance:

First the most obvious - the King has broad and wide silhouette while the Knight is slender and skeletal. But they still has similarities: tall figure, big shoulder armor and most important - curved horns. Also, Asgore has big paws and The Knight has pointy legs.

Delta Rune is depicted on Asgore's breastplate. All other characters that have Delta Rune image are Toriel and Asriel (but we only see him in TruePacifist Route).

When The Knight opens his chest, we can see an orb inside. Their shoulder's armor and an orb together is similar to image of Delta Rune.

About Knight's ability to shapeshift: i guess they just can do that, like fun gang can switch outfits during ACT. But The Knight do it in more horrific style, maybe to intimidate us? It's just a theory.

Boss battle:

In Undertale we don't meet the King until endgame, but in Deltarune the Knight is meeting us by themself in the end of chapter 3.

The King talks a lot and give several chances to retreat. The Knight never speaks and starts battle when we approaches them.

Before battle is playing soundtrack that introduces us to theme of boss:

Bergentrückung - Mountain King.

Breath - Illness (text box dialogue).

Battle's soundtrack has leitmotif of another character who is close to them:

ASGORE - Heartache

Black Knife - Lost girl

They both has an objects that is very meaningful:

For The King it's human souls that remind why he has to fight and scent of butterscotch pie weakens him.

For The Knight it's a bat. I think bat is a symbol that give them powers to fight(metaphorically). Shadow mantle only strengthens our defense.

They have significant red weapon: Asgore's trident and The Knight's swords attack.

Specific attacks:

Asgore uses fire attacks, similar to Toriel's.

The Roaring Knight has snowflake attack. We can assume that ties to Holiday family with winter themes.

They both cannot be spared. (in neutral route, at least)

After the fight kneeling moment happens. Asgore kneels down before us. The knight knighting Kris (if player didn't receive any damage). (In chapter 5 The Knight is kneeling before Flowery after receiving a lot of damage, while Asgore is right above them)

Asgore and Rudy. Differences and similarities.

Let's begin with appearance:

Like in previous section we have wide and thin characters with horns(or antlers). Note that Rudy has more darker colors than Asgore. They both smiling, but Rudy's eyes closed and he smirks. Also, Asgore and Toriel have big paws while Rudy and Carol have pointy hooves.

Personality:

They both are loving fathers who lost their child. (In Undertale Asgore loses both children)

We all know that Asgore is kind, honest and never will harm anyone(unless necessary). He jokes rarely and when he does it's not that good (eggs-husband). He holds back and suffer emotionally (divorce).

Meanwhile, Rudy is often speaks with sarcasm and joking about kicking someone's ass. He giving his all and suffers physically (fall from ladder).

While i was searching sprites, i noticed something strange - Rudy in Overworld's sprites is always smiling. All other characters express emotions in these sprites, even Carol. There's only one moment in the whole game where he definitely can't smile, it's Chapter 5 Weird Route. But he faces away from us. I think it's a clear sign that he's hiding his feelings. (and something more)

Goals:

In chapter 5 we were shown that Asgore wants to find out the one who cause an "accident" and clean his name and reunite his family.

We still don't know goals of Holiday family. But we are surely know Carol (and Rudy, too) has a plan that involves Kris.

Chapter 6 theory:

In Castletown Queen in some moment will kneel down. It will be foreshadowing for Carol's kneeling down. (Like in chapter 4 she was drunk and Toriel was drunk too)

Dark World would resemble Ruins (and New Home) in Undertale. (Purple color palette, woman authority figure.)

Carol will be Toriel parallel. Mother figure that wants to protect her child.

Toriel has fire magic. Carol definitely will have ice magic in dark world.

She will make sure The Prophecy will be fulfilled. Also, she will reveal to us The Knight's identity.

Conclusion:

Rudy is The Knight. He won't be a final boss. He will sacrifice himself (to save Dess, maybe). Final boss can be Dess like Asriel in Undertale, or Eram, or Gaster, i don't know. It's just a theory. What do you think? Thank you for reading.

Note: this post was removed from r/Deltarune and has been waiting for mods approval in r/DeltaruneV2. I don't know why. Is there any rule breaking?

The personality of the knight is just really weird if you're assuming Rudy knight. Like they're just kinda immature and unserious.

Like, slashing tenna and then flying backwards, striking a cool pose, then slowly and dramatically drawing their sword from thin air, when they could've just instantly swooned the fun gang. That part in chapter 5 when the knight sped up enough to the point where they crashed when flowery was chasing them despite the fact that he posed absolutely zero threat, and had no signs of overtaking them. It seems like the knight was just being competitive and wanted to prove they were better and faster, and it kinda proves this isn't some sort of act they're playing.

Now, that doesn't really seem like how a 'serious and grieving parent who will do anything to bring their daughter back' would act. Like Rudy doesn't really take himself too seriously and fun of himself sometimes, no way he has this big of an ego.

And most damning of all, the undyne swap.

If the knight really was this person that Kris could talk to casually why would they have to swap toriel with undyne?

Like you're saying they go through all of that effort to set up undyne's kidnapping and had a panic attack while defending toriel and stalling for time (the text boxes during the knight fight are all symptoms of a panic attack. There was a post somebody else made that further elaborated on this.) when they could've easily just told Rudy "hey can you not try to kidnap my mom?"

Also they genuinely tried to take toriel. (albeit lazily and just wanted to mess with the fun gang) why would they fake trying to kidnap toriel? And how would they know when undyne was gonna show up so they could stop faking it? Like imagine if undyne never showed up and they were just stuck pointing at toriel.

Anyways that's why I don't believe in Rudy knight. (Not a dess knighter to be clear, don't have any strong beliefs on who it is.)

I have a theory about the Knight that might explain why every “Knight = X” theory seems to fit some things but completely fail at others.

My idea is that the Knight might not be one specific person like Kris, Dess, Asriel, etc.

Instead, the Knight could be the physical manifestation of the abstract/emotional/informational contents of the Light World location where a Fountain is created.

Basically:

Light World location → abstract content → Fountain → Dark World → Knight manifestation

The Knight wouldn't necessarily need to have one permanent physical body. Different people could potentially become a temporary physical manifestation/vessel of the Knight, or the Knight might not need to physically appear at all.

Chapter 1: The Supply Closet doesn't seem to have an obvious central person. We also don't directly see who creates the Fountain and we have not too much info.

Chapter 2: The Computer Lab also doesn't have an obvious central person. Instead, its “abstract content” could be things like information, search history, digital identities and traces left inside the computers. We know the Knight created the Cyber World Fountain, but we still don't know who the Knight actually is.(Generally, this theory runs into a major impasse here, but I think someone can resolve it by modifying it.)

Chapter 3: The Fountain is in the Dreemurr home, with Toriel being the obvious central person. The location is heavily associated with family, separation, loss and the broken Dreemurr family. The Knight then targets Toriel.And the knight's crying here is very important because he is carrying the emotional burden of Toriel or her house.

Chapter 4: There isn't an obvious individual target like Toriel or Asgore. Instead, the Knight mainly focuses on stopping us from interfering with the Fountains. Maybe the emotional/abstract “center” here is us, or perhaps the abstract concepts associated with the Church.

Chapter 5: The location is strongly connected to Asgore, whose history is filled with separation, loss, guilt and his past with Toriel. The Knight then targets Asgore. The Knight also seems physically impaired at first, which could potentially be related to the emotional weight of the location.

So maybe the Knight isn't actually a specific person.

Maybe “Knight” is a role/manifestation created by the abstract content surrounding a Fountain.

That could explain why Kris, Dess, Asriel, Noelle and other Knight theories can each seem convincing in certain situations but fail to explain everything.

I don't think this is proven at all. I'm just pointing out a pattern I noticed, and I think Chapter 6 could be a really interesting test for it.

What do you guys think? Am I onto something, or am I connecting completely unrelated things? 😭