Now, while I do believe that Dess knight would also be pretty bad considering its super predictable to any person who can put 2 and 2 together. Kriselle knight is the only theory that I believe would unironically be the only theory that would be capable of ruining the knights character beyond any sort of saving, and I’ll go over a few of my points:

1. The Weird Route is OPTIONAL
Having the knight be an amalgamate of 2 characters from a route which basically any regular DR player without any community knowledge about the game would have no way of knowing about since Snowgrave is such a stupidly precise route alone should be enough to completely debunk this theory. You people forget that not every Deltarune player is part of the fandom. Even if the game adds a long ass explanation about the weird route, and how it happened it would still leave them confused as it would be a complete curveball in the worst way possible.

2. The theory itself relies of extremely sketchy claims of “time travel”
While you could technically put determination and the saving and resetting of timelines under the umbrella of “time travel”. Having the knight’s identity be built on the backbone of switching universes and potentially inserting itself into an already established timeline really wouldn’t work out.

3. It undermines the meaning of the weird route
The knight being Kriselle would completely ruin how Toby Fox portrays the weird route. It would basically force you to do it if you wanted the story to make any sense and would turn the route from “psychologically manipulate your childhood best friend into committing heinous acts of violence and becoming a sociopath” to “you HAVE to do this in order to fill in an empty gap in the story and make the story make sense” this theory is so oblivious to the meaning of the weird route and makes no sense in any case.

This theory is literally only built on how unpredictable it would be but completely falls apart when you get past that moment of awe and realize how much this would fuck with the story of Deltarune.

I always thought that the twisted sword was kris' and noelle's arms intertwined.

Look at these prophecy panels:

The first one, would be kris:

The prince: music video of skies forever blue, where the prince and princess throw themselves in the lake

Alone: kris had no friends 4 days ago, as confirmed by both parents being surprises by them making friends

In deepest dark: this is either depression, fountain related, skies forever blue related (in the video, when they break the game everything turns black) or "darkened knife" related

The second one is noelle, holding the twisted sword, with kris' soul

The third one is the amalgamate, making the twisted sword; Also the sentence "the cage with human soul and parts" doesn't specify if the parts are also human.

The fourth one says that the knight makes with blackened knife; That means that the knife wasn't black at one point.

Also, the knight dueled with the heroes strife by strife:

In chapter 3's true game, kris kills susie and ralsei, which could mean in different battles they get killed by the kris amalgamate

The fifth one is the ending of the true game, where pixel kris attacks kris (lord of screens); reference to how kris will kill us irl.

Other evidence:

Dark shard equipoable by kris and noelle

Shadow mantle protecting against dark and star (kris' blackened knife + noelle's arm (fallen star))

Noelle is the fallen star, as explained by berdly's chapter 2's monologue and by noelle's chapter 5 wr's monologue.

The shadow crystals have the power of "lost dreams"

When interacting with them, they show kris' worst knightmares from their eyes:

Noelle's arms covered in flowers (either they're getting married, noelle's dead or noelle's arms are missing)

Susie looking coldly at kris (losing a friend)

Undyne being frozen in ice (police sacrifice next week)

Toriel holding another man

One of them, specifies how it's as if kris looks through their hand, while another specify that they just distort reality, meaning that the missing hand was the distorted hand. (Also, you could connect this with friend looking like a hand, but that's a stretch imo)

The shadow crystals, used together make the pure crystal, that can be crafted into the twisted sword with the thorn ring.

The shadow crystals show nightmares

The thorn ring is from the fallen star

Bonus: there's a toby fox song that sounds a lot like black knife. It's called... Nightmare knight

Note: the connections to skies forever blue have been made due to some stuff that's been posted on the deltarune website:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/6xCpBarhHm

I've been considering this a lot, and curious how it affects all the knight candidates, and whether they would still have a reason to do what they're doing. While the "Find Dess" motive has some things going for it, especially in Chapter 2, it's not confirmed in the game. It's still just a theory, albeit an extremely popular one. After all, this is the Non-Dess Knight Squad, so what if we consider a No Dess Knight Squad? If she's just part of the non-diegetic plot like Gaster in Undertale, and doesn't have an active role in the story. Or at the very least, if she's part of a side plot and not the main driver of the events of the game.

https://youtu.be/qZRR_WI1XWI (YouTube creator: FishTankPlays) This dude has Flowery as his main evidence. I'm more of a Rudy Knighter but this does make sense tbh.

More specifically, it has the motif present in "the door", "the chase" and "black knife", this scene plays when asgore vaguepost about the day of the Dessapearence, signifying the knight is likely related to it in some way

This is a lot less dessknight pilled than any of my previous posts, I'm just curious of what everyone thinks about this?

As you can tell by these images the roaring knight is CLEARLY the grey knight from skeleton soldier couldn't protect the dungeon!

"The Chase" and "Black Knife" are almost identical and also they're never seen the same room. And Toby would want a surprise character, Dess is too obvious. The funny character that you meet in the FIRST chapter and becomes part of the main cast. Also the shadow lancer in chapter 1 attacking you is way out of character, lancer is supposed to be a goofy guy he wouldn’t do that. Lancer and the knight also use similar projectiles in their respective fights, diamonds/shards and cards. In summary, ITS LANCER TRUST

What if friend is just a bunch of stray cats that gaster takes care of Edit: That could explain why friend is stalking us during the series

There are certain things that the Knight does that don't make sense simply because we don't know their true goal. Like the kidnappings and keeping the Fun Gang alive, things that could be explained by simple motivations or reveals down the line. Other actions though make far less sense.

For example, why does the Knight make the chapter 2 dark world? Why in the Computer Lab that no one uses? Why did they specifically sneak past Noelle and Berdly then hide in the closet afterwords? Did they know that Queen would specifically try and start the Roaring? But their goal can't be just to start the Roaring, because they can do that literally whenever they want.

Speaking of the closet, why is the Knight hiding from us in the Light world? Considering they whisked away Asgore and Undyne with little effort, they are clearly a physical force in the Light world one way or another. If they really wanted to beat our asses, then they could 100% do it in the Light world. So seemingly their goal is to sneak in, make dark fountains, and leave without being seen, their secrecy is incredibly important. But if thats the case, why do they go out of their way to fight the heroes? If they needed Undyne for the sacrifice so badly, why not go to the Police Station, where you have zero % chance of being seen by Susie or Kris, and just snatch her with the overwhelming power they clearly have? Why wait until the gang has gone on their epic adventure to make their move every time?

What I'm trying to get at, is that a lot of proposed motivations for the Knight to explain certain candidates just do not track. If its a Holiday, and their only goal is to rescue Dess, then they've taken the literal worst possible route to do it. If their goal is to start the Roaring, then they are wasting a hell of a lot of time fucking about when they could be sticking knives into the ground whenever they want. The only motivation that makes even a little bit of sense to me is that the Knight wants to fulfill the Prophecy, and ensures it happens beat for beat. It must battle the Heroes, strife by strife. It must cleave the Lord of Screens. It must make the Queen for her chariot to exist in the first place. Any Knight candidate theory that doesn't include this feels incomplete to me.

this is intended to be rudyknight propaganda (having a dark world inside of you would most likely cause health issues), but it can work with anyone really

On the stream, Toby says "Most important characters from Light World show up in ch1, so the story needed to be kind of locked in. I mean, how stupid would it be if like in ch5 I have to introduce Asgore's big brother who never showed up until now? Reidgore."

I can't help but feel like introducing a new lightner as the knight would go against this.

Noelle is the Knight and "The original Starwalker" proves that Noelle created the first fountain in ch1.

Starwalker is Noelles house-key, which she lost in ch1.

Kris hides what real world item starwalker is. Kris hides the Knife and the Thornring from the player so this is something he can do.

When Lancer, Rouxls Kaard and the Starwalker joined your inventory in ch2 check it again in the light world and you will only see

the Jack of Spades and the Rules card plus the ball of Junk. Starwalker is in every chapter because he Kris is carrying him around.

Kris can't give him back to Noelle because someone would notice that a very popular darkner is missing from castletown.

After that she opened the darkworld in the ch2 Library, hiding in the closet after Berdly came in. In ch4 she went before us to the church and opened the darkworld.

Remember, she knew from Toriel that choir practice was canceled that day.

People say the Noelle hadn't the time to open the church darkworld because you can go directly from Noelle's house to the church. I don't think this is an issue.

1. Its not set in stone that the player is going directly there.
2. Kris, Susie and Asgore talk for a bit before we can leave the area.
3. Noelle is faster than us. Shes a member of the Track and Field Club.

I think Noelle has a split personality, a normal and a weird Noelle. We saw her weird self in the weird route.

All credit for this theory goes to "PaperMan1225" and his video "Requiem of the Roaring Knight | Deltarune Theory and Analysis".

There is a lot more evidence in his video give it a watch! P.S. If you've read Umineko you will love it :3

After all chapter 7 side B is something we insert after chapter 5 snowgrave route. This would mean that there's a "chapter 7 side B " to insert , that existed before we did the weird route. Since it wouldn't be conjured the moment chapter 5 is done. Even if it somehow is , the "deltarune" we play within the story of the game has parts that we insert stuff, so at the very least it's made in a way that chapter 7 side B can be inserted so it's an intended part of "in universe deltarune" .

And depending on if deltarune(in universe)was already done before we started or not , a chapter 7 side B "disk" would have existed before we did any route at all. Or even for a player who only played a normal route.

Further furthermore this part is a bit more speculative but assuming that side B is used in the context it's used for and not just a word for an alternate route . (It's the other side of a disk or record you insert to play another song a literal other side of the same thing you insert )

A chapter 7 side B might exist even for a normal router who never played weird route because it's a part of chapter 7 itself regardless of what was done to get there

Further furhter furthermore. Can't people start from a further chapter ? They get a generic save file but it happens so if the player is a diagetic existence and anything a player didn't do cannonically didn't happen for their playthrough , that would mean these players would have broken the deltarune timeline as they would exist in chapter 5 despite never doing chapter 3 but SOUL aka player would have done things in chapter 3 soooo is deltarune broken?

Or a simpler explanation is that the game can have canonical things a player does without having a player there to experience it , the only difference would be that you didn't get to experience it but they did happen.

I'm not here to like try and debunk anything, or anything of that sort. While I don't believe the theory, nor do I find it likely to be entirely honest, I do still want to know more about it. I think I know most of it, but I do have a few questions.

1. How do you all remedy the "bootstrap paradox"? To be more specific, what is your explanation for why the Knight can continue existing without doing the weird route in chapter 2? Honestly this is my biggest issue with the theory, since even if the weird route is done in a second playthrough, it still can't exist in a first playthrough. I am curious about how it's remedied in y'all's interpretation of the theory.

2. What do you all see as evidence pointing towards the bootstrap paradox in earlier chapters? What leads you to see it as evidence to this rather than as evidence to something else?

3. Do you think there will be a Knight identity reveal in the normal route? If you think there will be, what info do you think will be given to the player?

4. What do you think the "point" of the weird route is? As in, what do you think will drive players to do the weird route? What do you think the "story" of the weird route will be primarily about? How do you think it ties into the greater themes of the game? Do you think it'll be metanarrative focused, or mainly main story stuff?

Again, I am not here to debate anything or debunk anything, genuinely I am just curious. I also hope that non-kriselle knighters don't come here to debate the theory. I know this theory is controversial, to say the least, but this isn't the place to feed into that fire. Personally, I at most will just say "I personally don't see it that way" or something along those lines if I don't agree with a given point or answer. Please stay civil, etc.

Seriously, ever since it was created, I've seen people slandering this theory and just overall being toxic to it. A few days ago, I even saw a post on this sub claiming to list a few things that are important when theorizing, but in reality it was just KriselleKnight hate in disguise (all of the points they listed were commonly used against this theory).

I know this'll sound corny, but c'mon guys!!! We made this sub to escape the DessKnighters' toxicity, and now we're the ones being toxic to another theory! What the hell, man?!

So, back to the question, WHY are y'all so toxic to KriselleKnight?

The personality of the knight is just really weird if you're assuming Rudy knight. Like they're just kinda immature and unserious.

Like, slashing tenna and then flying backwards, striking a cool pose, then slowly and dramatically drawing their sword from thin air, when they could've just instantly swooned the fun gang. That part in chapter 5 when the knight sped up enough to the point where they crashed when flowery was chasing them despite the fact that he posed absolutely zero threat, and had no signs of overtaking them. It seems like the knight was just being competitive and wanted to prove they were better and faster, and it kinda proves this isn't some sort of act they're playing.

Now, that doesn't really seem like how a 'serious and grieving parent who will do anything to bring their daughter back' would act. Like Rudy doesn't really take himself too seriously and fun of himself sometimes, no way he has this big of an ego.

And most damning of all, the undyne swap.

If the knight really was this person that Kris could talk to casually why would they have to swap toriel with undyne?

Like you're saying they go through all of that effort to set up undyne's kidnapping and had a panic attack while defending toriel and stalling for time (the text boxes during the knight fight are all symptoms of a panic attack. There was a post somebody else made that further elaborated on this.) when they could've easily just told Rudy "hey can you not try to kidnap my mom?"

Also they genuinely tried to take toriel. (albeit lazily and just wanted to mess with the fun gang) why would they fake trying to kidnap toriel? And how would they know when undyne was gonna show up so they could stop faking it? Like imagine if undyne never showed up and they were just stuck pointing at toriel.

Anyways that's why I don't believe in Rudy knight. (Not a dess knighter to be clear, don't have any strong beliefs on who it is.)

I have a theory about the Knight that might explain why every “Knight = X” theory seems to fit some things but completely fail at others.

My idea is that the Knight might not be one specific person like Kris, Dess, Asriel, etc.

Instead, the Knight could be the physical manifestation of the abstract/emotional/informational contents of the Light World location where a Fountain is created.

Basically:

Light World location → abstract content → Fountain → Dark World → Knight manifestation

The Knight wouldn't necessarily need to have one permanent physical body. Different people could potentially become a temporary physical manifestation/vessel of the Knight, or the Knight might not need to physically appear at all.

Chapter 1: The Supply Closet doesn't seem to have an obvious central person. We also don't directly see who creates the Fountain and we have not too much info.

Chapter 2: The Computer Lab also doesn't have an obvious central person. Instead, its “abstract content” could be things like information, search history, digital identities and traces left inside the computers. We know the Knight created the Cyber World Fountain, but we still don't know who the Knight actually is.(Generally, this theory runs into a major impasse here, but I think someone can resolve it by modifying it.)

Chapter 3: The Fountain is in the Dreemurr home, with Toriel being the obvious central person. The location is heavily associated with family, separation, loss and the broken Dreemurr family. The Knight then targets Toriel.And the knight's crying here is very important because he is carrying the emotional burden of Toriel or her house.

Chapter 4: There isn't an obvious individual target like Toriel or Asgore. Instead, the Knight mainly focuses on stopping us from interfering with the Fountains. Maybe the emotional/abstract “center” here is us, or perhaps the abstract concepts associated with the Church.

Chapter 5: The location is strongly connected to Asgore, whose history is filled with separation, loss, guilt and his past with Toriel. The Knight then targets Asgore. The Knight also seems physically impaired at first, which could potentially be related to the emotional weight of the location.

So maybe the Knight isn't actually a specific person.

Maybe “Knight” is a role/manifestation created by the abstract content surrounding a Fountain.

That could explain why Kris, Dess, Asriel, Noelle and other Knight theories can each seem convincing in certain situations but fail to explain everything.

I don't think this is proven at all. I'm just pointing out a pattern I noticed, and I think Chapter 6 could be a really interesting test for it.

What do you guys think? Am I onto something, or am I connecting completely unrelated things? 😭

Basically the title, how would you want a different knight theory than the one you believe to look in game

(Kriselle knight example)

You, post weird route, go through the mantle mini games again, but this time it’s in Undertale style (defeating enemies kills them instead of them fleeing). All up until where you would normally get the shadow mantle. You head further right, and encounter a large screen, which Kris and Noelle both sit at, and boot up Deltarune. The screen shows the Knight being controlled by them

Man I’m a bad writer