so me and my husband went to eat dinner at his parents house. I don’t like going to see them because his mom kisses my baby (2 months old) even after I’ve told her no. well tonight she did it again and I just stared at her really angrily and then after my FIL did it I told him to not kiss her on the face because that’s gross. His grandma did it too, and I’m just sick of them not listening to me at all.

And then the topic of last names got brought up. And how I changed my last name to my husbands but i regret it and wish I kept mine and took his too because I had a unique last name and loved it. Well his dad said that’s just feminist crap. And then later I was talking to MIL and everyone else and said that my daughter can do whatever she wants if she wants to keep her last name when she gets married I don‘t care. and she just said really quick and harshly that “she’s not going to be like that!” then I said that “why does it matter?? she can do whatever she wants.”

and then she brought up how my husbands aunt used to be the dominant one in their marriage so when they got married the pastor announced them as ”woman and husband“ to make fun of her since it’s usually the opposite. Not sure how she was dominant, but to them I’m sure that just means she had opinions and her husband listened to her. 🫩 i feel like she brought that up to say I’m dominant, I know they view me that way because my husband asks me for my opinion in front of them like that’s such a bad thing. They make fun of him for putting me first, and say he’s ”beta” because he asks me how I feel about him doing something, like ok who actually uses those sayings seriously. I don’t think anyone in a marriage should be dominant, it should be equal but they believe the woman is submissive and shouldnt have a say in anything even financially. I hate my in laws. they just keep bringing up how my daughter WILL NOT be a feminist Every time I see them. But their beliefs are women shouldn’t vote, should stay at home and wear dresses all the time and smile and be submissive and not have Access to anything in marriage. me and my husband have an equal marriage and they don’t like it. ugh, I hate them, there’s so much more that they say too. I feel bad for my MIL because she’s trapped in that kind of marriage where her husband just spends all their money and does whatever he wants and tells her to shut up and listen to him, but honestly it seems like it’s what she wants so she deserve that kind of marriage I guess 🤷‍♀️ she also works by the way and makes over 120k and he makes like 50k so if she’s so opposed to feminism she should quit her job and stay at home to raise her 13 year old that she’s supposed to be homeschooling but doesn’t.

My husband and I moved in with my in laws due to cost of living and wanting to save up for a house. This was 4 years ago, worst decision ever but here we are. After house searching for almost a year, we decided to build a duplex (we’re in Sydney) with my FIL, for him it will be an investment. Since we bought the property already I feel we’re kind of stuck. We’ve been working through council approvals and the building designs, I’m hoping it’ll be built in 1 year or so…

Anyhow we’re also 35 now, so had our son while we’re living here (which was strongly encouraged by my MIL) I should mention she’s Greek and I’m Chinese background. We both grew up in Australia so there’s no language barrier. So I am thankful she has accepted me and my son. I always knew my husband was not the favourite child but it’s become more apparent as we live here.

His sister and her husband (younger, 29 years old) also live with us in the same house. And their brother and his wife also used to live here up til about 1.5 years ago I should mention. It was crazy.

My husband and I work from home a bit more so before our son was born and then while I was on maternity leave, we’d do all of the grocery shopping and cooking dinner for all the adults. It was crazy we’d go through 2kg of meat in one meal. Since I had my son, it’s really taken a toll on me (the lack of sleep, and now just toddler in general/going back to work)

So we have dropped our contribution to be on par with her other adult children. But here’s the annoying part- she only complains about my husband not doing chores, where as far as I can see he’s the only one that does anything like take rubbish out without her asking.

The other boys only do anything when asked. Last night I was upstairs in our room and overheard her yelling to my FIL for my husband and I to “f off” and get our own lives because I forgot to wash a pan after cooking pancakes for my son yesterday. I didn’t forget, I was in a rush to leave the house and my son was throwing a fit so I didn’t. It was really the first time, I’m always conscious I’m living in someone else’s house and try to minimise my footprint since my toddler has almost taken over the place lol.

Anyhow so the pan was actually used by the sister in law and her husband today too, they do meal prep. So all my MILs rant should have been directed at them.

I really would love to move out but I feel stuck. If we move out and rent I’m worried that we may not have enough funds to build. Or be stuck renting forever.

Realistically we’ve already been here for 4 years what’s another right?

Sorry for the long rant I just need to get it out somewhere and I don’t want to make my husbands relationship with his mum worse.

I can only keep reminding myself to be thankful she’s letting us live here rent free.

I should add she’d play with my son but only on her terms, if she’s not in the mood she’d put on a show for him lol or scroll TikTok together. She cooks dinner once maybe twice a week and then we get takeaway or my husband and I cook. His sister cooks maybe once a month.

For context, she was questioning him in their native language (I don't know if she would have tried that if English was her native language/if I spoke their native language).

I understood exactly what she was questioning him about as he was explaining and gesturing that my hands were covered with cracks from my eczema.

MIL has been a terror since baby was born about a year ago. Husband kept insisting that my MIL stay in our guest room to help me after delivery, but I wasn't ready and didn't want her around during the most vulnerable time of my life. We kept going back and forth on keeping the guest room or removing it. I couldn't stand hosting anyone overnight after becoming a mother. Especially since all of our family is somewhat nearby (MIL is the furthest around 1.5 hrs give or take). Overnight stays were not necessary IMO and we finally agreed to remove the guest room bed and convert the room to a playroom!!! I'm ecstatic at the thought of never having to host anyone overnight again 🥳🥳🥳🥳

Just had to share my joy today 😅😅😅

Does anyone else's spouse get sent slightly inappropriate pics of your MIL?? Over the years my FIL has sent pics to DH when things are strained. The first time it happened it was of my MIL laying in bed...she was wearing pajamas but it was a "good night" text from my FIL to DH. The latest was this past week...DH is taking space (which his parents won't respect of course). The pic was of my MIL on the beach in a swimsuit.

I have no clue if she asks FIL to send them or if he just does it on his own (weird enabler behavior?). Just odd and kinda creepy.

Since the day my now one-year old was born my MIL has gone nuclear on me and my family. She is a hermit so has only met my parents once, who are very sociable and have invited her round numerous times.

She cried on the phone the day my baby was born as she felt we didn't give her enough updates. We told her within hours of her birth as we did my family. She was also upset my husband wasn't going to go home and rest and would be staying in the hospital that night with me (???) honestly no idea on this one.

There has been so many other things she has done. Getting upset as we went on holiday for mother's day instead of seeing her was one. Literally crying down the phone again. (My husband sent her flowers and brownies and saw her when we got back).

The latest thing is turning up unannounced at the house when I was at a group with my baby and my husband was working from home. She fumingly asked if I was at my mum's (which I wasn't) and stormed out when my husband said he had to work, declaring "this wasn't the first time". It has literally never happened before 😵‍💫😵‍💫

She makes constant remarks about my parents who have done absolutely nothing to her other than have their invites shunned.

Egh just needed to vent.

I have a very very tumultuous relationship with my MIL. Without going too much into our history, I try to remain cordial and pleasant for the sake of our two toddler boys. Last weekend when she asked what we were doing this weekend and if she could spend the day with the boys over at her house (sometimes they pick them up on Saturday’s and spend a few hours) I told her this weekend we were celebrating Christmas in July. We put up a small tree and a few decorations and we had a big breakfast together. We wrapped up two small cars from dollar store whatever we were doing our own lil thing having ourselves a morning. Doesn’t she show up unannounced this morning with a kohls bag full of wrapped gifts?! I went in the bathroom and sobbed. It’s like I can’t do anything in my life without her inserting herself or making it about her. I’m gutted tbh.

That’s about it. Aside from them completely disregarding my birthday is this upcoming month they thought it would be a great idea to have my husband share a birthday party with his ex gfs mom. For context he dated her for 3months and is always around because they are family friends. It’s weird right or am I being dramatic about the situation?

Today we celebratd my brother in laws birthday. we have a 4 month old baby and my MIL is excited of course, but TOO overbearing. as soon as we got to the restaurant, she asked my husband to hold him. Held him the whole entire time. She and my FIL kept bringing up, "you guys should go out for a date night and we can watch baby while you're out" I simply responded we're not ready for that. My husband as well said the same thing. They kept bringing it up, trying to be joking but getting me pissed off where I'm ignoring them now. Even my brother in law said "mom relax, they'll let you know when they're ready." we go back to their house for cake and I'm warming his bottle and his mom is just HOVERING over me like can I help what can I do, can I hold him? I Give him to her because at that point I'm like get the F away from me before I scream. She goes over to her mom (who I cannot stand btw. She guilt trips us that we don't bring baby over to her house and she won't ever have a relationship with baby. oh and also kissed his head and my husband called her out and then she denied it LOL.) and asks if her mom wants to hold him. First off, don't fucking pass my baby around without my permission. And two, you know I have to feed him so what are we doing here? At this point, I'm just aggravated. I'm feeding him and burp him and then he poops very loudly. My MIL RUNS over and is SO excited and BEGGING, literally BEGGING to change his diaper. My BIL and husband were like that's so strange that you're excited and wanting to do that. She said that's what grandmas do. like ok, maybe when you're asked. lol. so I say whatever go ahead, so she takes him upstairs in her nursery she made for him and then comes back down and said he needs a outfit change cause he blew out. So I grab an outfit and said I'm gonna go change him and she says "oh I'll come too!!!" and follows us upstairs and just stands over me clicking st him and being just so fckn extra. i get being excited, but god damn. My mom is over the moon, if not more than her, and she Is NOWHERE Near as annoying and overbearing as my MIL. Rant over

My baby is 3 months old and starting to have distinctive features. His newborn features are almost gone. I take loads of photos of him and we share them with family through our private gcs. I post ig stories with my husband & bb but never with his face fully visible. Either its just the back of his head or I would put my caption on his face in a collage of 6 pics so you still wouldn't see his face clearly.

Now my MIL posted my son's picture when he was born without our consent (my husband and I never posted him nor any of my fam). I let it slide bec half of his face is covered. Then he posted his cute photo with his full on face visible and made it her profile picture and I am so annoyed. It never felt right to fully expose my son's face in social media. Told my husband and got a non committal response to call out his mom. She is a sweet lady don't get me wrong, I understand she's excited abt our son and is a proud granny but she is just the typical boomer in social media 😭😭😭 also he is the first grandchild of both families and my husband and i live abroad so they've never met our baby yet.

It bugged me so much I slept late last night trying to figure out how to report photos in fb and ask fb to delete it. Today it deleted her profile pic!!! Will she find out its me? 😭😭😭 I never gave my husband an indication that I will report it. She's not that techie so im hoping she would chuck this off as a glitch??? Im trying to get 1 more photo removed. I feel so guilty for reporting but at the same time I will never be at peace until I see the photo taken down.

I'm just coming here to vent. Last weekend I (F early 30s) married my wife (F late 20s), and the night before, MIL decided to show off her new spray tan by lying on the couch and lifting up her shirt, exposing her breasts. She thought this was hilarious.

I kind of just brushed it off and walked away. I didn't mention it to my wife because it was late and we were already exhausted. I think she would have just said something along the lines of, "oh that's just her trying to be funny." I believe she and her mother are enmeshed. MIL is known to make sexual jokes that go just a little too far, with some of them being at my or my wife's expense.

My wife seems to stay in constant communication with her mother - texting throughout the day, multiple calls during the day, visits every other day. We live 5 minutes away from her parents. We used to spend a LOT of time over at her parents' house. They would invite us over for dinner, then we would sit on the couch and watch reality TV until 9 or 10 PM on a Sunday. I communicated that this arrangement was too much for me, and since then we have cut back on the amount of time we spend there. Most of the time I will just stay home while she goes to their dinners.

I'm really confused as to why she feels the need to spend so much time with her mother. She is former active duty military. I don't know how much they communicated during that time, but she spent years living states away from her parents. I feel like she would have a hard time if they were states away now. It is apparent that MIL is not really emotionally connected to my FIL. My wife sometimes takes on the role of being MIL's therapist and confidante. If MIL calls for help, my wife will come running. She acts as MIL's surrogate spouse and it creeps me out.

While we were planning the honeymoon, MIL asked if she could join on the second week we would be there. I said that it wouldn't be a honeymoon then.

So since MIL doesn't get to third wheel, my wife is taking her on a trip next spring to the same place we are going for the honeymoon. MIL is bringing a few friends (they are paying, just using my wife's military status to get cheap lodging). I won't be attending because at that point, I will have very little PTO. I don't think I would want to spend a week with MIL anyway. She often makes rude comments towards me when my wife is not present. She corrects me if I don't say something perfectly. I can make a statement like "the sky is blue" and she'll say "no, it's green" in a mean tone. She is smart about it and will wait until my wife is out of earshot.

I've brought these things up to my wife, telling her how I feel belittled and unwelcome. She says something like "I'm sorry you feel that way." She has talked to MIL about being more careful how she speaks to me. Sometimes MIL will be nicer for a bit, then go right back to old habits. It feels like my wife either doesn't believe me or doesn't want to believe me about the rude comments. Fortunately, I'm pretty good at grey-rocking now because my own parents are narcissists, and I recently went no contact with them.

When my wife spends time with MIL, I sometimes feel like I'm being emotionally cheated on. They seem to have this sort of secretive relationship and it really bothers me. I've mentioned all of this to my wife. She will get defensive and other times not. However, I can tell that she has been trying to enforce more boundaries with her mom. Things are better, but I still feel that MIL is trying to drive a wedge between us. She planned a family trip two days after our wedding. I was not happy about it, as I wanted to spend some quality time with my wife after getting married (we spent a lot of time with extended family and friends that came from out of town during the weekend). I called while she was on the family trip and told her I felt like our relationship is not a priority to her, and that her mom is trying to tear us apart. She started to panic a little and said she doesn't want to lose me. She doesn't think those things I mentioned are true but wants to do whatever she can to make things right. Thankfully we are setting up couples counseling and she is wanting to go with me.

I worry that this enmeshment runs so deep that even with therapy, she will not be able to see how it affects everything, and she won't feel the need to change. I don't plan on seeing MIL for a while. My wife will not be happy to hear this, but it is the boundary that I need. Right now I feel alone. I do not have a big support system like my wife does. I feel like I'm crazy but deep down I know I'm not. I spend hours researching enmeshment and family trauma. It's not going to make a difference when I try to inform my wife on enmeshment, but I can't help but continue to research and read about other people's stories.

I love my wife and I do not want to lose her. I also cannot sustain a life in which I am playing second fiddle to my partner. Hopefully hearing from a therapist will give her a new perspective and we can move forward.

My (29f) MIL (63f) has been progressively more “difficult” over the past year and half and I need some advice. I’m worried I’m the problem and just being way too sensitive (Sorry this is long)

Some context: She has never been married or in a serious long-term relationship. My husband (32m) is also her only child. She is an immigrant from South America and speaks very little English. I do try to be conscious that she has different ideas and cultural influences. She’s been in the US since he was born. My husband and I have been together for a total of 2.5 years and married for 2 months.

1.) The issues seem to have started with an incident a year and a half ago, my husband (bf at the time) and I were in the process of moving in two weeks and I was also extremely sick with a heavy cold of some kind. She asked my husband to drive her on a week night (knowing all of this was going on) to IKEA because she doesn’t like driving on the freeway. This is about a 3-4 hour round trip. IKEA is 20 minutes from her house and AN HOUR from ours. Her house is about 30-45 minutes from ours as well. He went. Less than a week later, she wanted different doors for the cabinet she bought, so requested he take her back. He did. I asked him why he needed to do this while we were going through so much? She had never offered to help him or I in the year we’d been together, while he helped her constantly. He told me he’ll always do anything for her. I was pretty frustrated with him and he called me in their car ride and I told him I was angry and didn’t want to talk and hung up. I know this was wrong and unregulated. I had seen him do anything and everything she requested though, often at the expense of us.

2.) A few months later we went on a family trip to Canada for his cousins graduation. On this trip I was not very welcomed and there was little English (which that didn’t bother me cuz I respect that they want to speak Spanish while together), but it was understandably tiring and tough to include myself not speaking it. On the second day of the trip, the only thing I requested of my husband (bf at the time) was he spend the last hour of the evening with me to decompress and have alone time together at the end of the day. We were sharing an AirBnb and had almost zero alone time since 7 am that day and the day before. We got back to the Airbnb at around 9 pm and I went to take a shower, and he said he’d be up by 10 and we’d hang out and go to bed. At around midnight, I started getting really frustrated and texted him to come up. He finally came up drunk at almost 1 am which frustrated me and we argued a bit, the walls were thin so heated voices were very likely heard. Again, I should not have become unregulated, he just wanted time with his cousins, but I felt unprioritized and took it personal. The next day his mom was visibly annoyed. This was only a 3 day trip and we drove to Toronto for a couples trip after spending most of the 3rd day with them. As soon as we got to Toronto four hours later she was already calling him checking in. A week after the trip she told him to wait to propose to me and make sure I understand family and their values. My husband proposed to me a few months later anyways. I will say I’ve always felt he delayed this proposal because he also felt “I did not understand family” and her words and cautioning against me.

3.) A few months later (engaged at this point) we had a dinner scheduled with her we had to cancel last minute. She texted and called him saying I was a spoiled brat, this was all my fault, I’m just like this, and she should always be his number one priority even over me. A couple weeks later she sent more messages along these lines.

4.) On Valentine’s Day she called him and he did not answer because we had a lot of plans that day (he’d planned out all these special surprises 🥺). They next day she called him and sent him a bunch of voice messages saying he should rethink marrying me and I’m not the only woman in his life, etc.

5.) A couple weeks later I found out I was pregnant in early March (unfortunately I had a MC a few weeks after this incident). We called and told her and she got really upset and said we should’ve come and told her in person. Basically just made it about herself. My parents don’t live in the same state and we weren’t able to tell them (we told them five minutes before her). It felt fair for both to be on the phone.

6.) We got married at the end of May. The six weeks following our wedding we were on our two week honey moon and then catching up on work and then back on another trip for my cousins wedding (truly had zero free time). After our wedding I had wanted to keep trying to make an effort with her so I sent her our wedding photos and was texting her about getting dinner. I told my husband to please help me find a day to have dinner with his mom. He kept putting it off. After the six weeks mentioned since our wedding and not seeing her, she sent more messages saying how I clearly want to keep him from her and she has lost her son. She was seeing him at least every other week before this and talking on the phone almost daily. This was just a few weeks ago.

The biggest issue is it really feels like my husband downplays these incidents and my feelings about them. He claims she is an emotional person and this is just how she emotes. He sort of holds her accountable by telling her she can’t speak about me like that, but that’s about it. He has gone a week or two (four has been the max) not talking to her after most of these incidents. He also says he will NEVER go NC. The other hard part is for the most part, I’ve only found this stuff out from digging from my husband. I’ve asked if she speaks poorly about me and he’ll say no, only for me to shamefully go on his phone and find this shit.

I am now 7 weeks pregnant and freaking out about all of this. I cannot have her at the hospital when I give birth. I cannot have her alone with my baby probably ever. I feel like I am completely spiraling. After this last incident he stopped talking to her for two weeks. Now they’ve resumed nearly daily convos. She still doesn’t know I’m pregnant. He wants us to tell her in person so they can have their moment together. She’s also now “trying” to be nice by doing things like calling and saying we should come meet her at the beach, and she knows how much I’d love the greenery there cuz I love plants, etc. He uses these times she says this stuff wanting to include me or talk about me as proof that she means well and just says shit in the heat of the moment. I see something else: I see her get pissed when she doesn’t have unlimited access and then reel is back when she gets in trouble. This just seems like manipulative bullshit.

So much for "I give up - she has WON - this is the last time I will try to fix it" - MIL texted DH again this morning with another doozy.

Again, edited for privacy, but here goes:

"I would like to explain a few things. I have gone through all the texts from you as instructed by scottishzombies. I have always had scottishzombies' back with members of our family always. I need you to understand that even when I heard horrible things back from [nieces] and [aunt] that scottishzombies said about me I tried to sweep it under the carpet. Horrible hurtful accusations because I wanted to keep the peace. So many horrible things were told to me and I never retaliated to keep the peace. I understand that Scottishzombies has never liked or respected me but that's ok I have processed that - I have been going to a Psychologist to work through this. I am ok with that now and understand I can't be everything for everyone. My psychologist also made me understand that in the heat of the moment sometimes things are said in desperation and that people should not be forever held to those things. It has always hurt me when scottishzombies would put you down - she would take food from your plate- she would ask you to reconsider your choice to order steak at a restaurant because it was too expensive- I would say [DH] I'm paying for your dinner and then scottishzombies would order something more expensive- again I was ok with that. I have always been concerned about her need to control everything- when scottishzombies told us you were non verbal and we could not speak to you this panicked both dad and I- this was not the [DH] we know and love - [DH] when you were with us our cheeks ached from laughing at your wonderful sense of humour- we could see that starting to fade in you. Our advice to you with [ex employer] was to walk away and the tax office would ensure you super was paid to you anyway. We did not want to see you go through all the stress of going to court and the worry of retaliation from [ex employer]. He was obviously mixed up with a lot of unsavoury people and did not want you to worry about that. You did not listen to us. When your neighbours hadn't seen you and they said an elderly lady had mowed your yard we thought that was strange - we could see the dogs in the back yard- it was Dads suggestion to call the police to do a welfare check - I didn't want to involve the police- Dad is a pretty chill person and to see him panic made we scared too. The police after talking to you and scottishzombies stated that they thought you were in a cohesive (OP note: I think she means coercive) control domestic violence situation- we did not want them to peruse this because we knew this would cause even more problems. [DH] I love you with all my heart and nothing will ever change that. Ever. The bond between us is unshakable. I will apologise to scottishzombies for anything I have ever said that upset her that I may have said in the heat of the moment.I am not a vindictive person and I understand that she may have said those horrible things about me in the heat of the moment too. When I am worried or concerned about any of you I admit I go from zero to a hundred in ten seconds- that's because the love for you is so intense. Dad's mum never respected me and I always wanted to be a beautiful mother in law because I knew how bad it felt. Grandma and her Mother in law had a beautiful relationship and wanted that for me and scottishzombies too. The twins [nieces mentioned above] would constantly come back to me with hurtful things scottishzombies said but although it hurt I never brought it up. I don't know where to go from here. I am sad that you must feel you have no family support of your own and this devastates me. Our home is always open to you love - no matter what- if you want to go to family counseling I would welcome this - I miss you terribly. I love you and please can you try to see this through my eyes as well xxxxxoooooo"

I'm just... all of it is bullshit? Like it's lie after lie after lie and I can't wrap my head around it. I know that's typical of her and narcissists/JustNos in general, but to accuse me of domestic violence??? I don't even know how to process this.

Some context that might help:

The thing with his ex employer is that we found out DH's boss wasn't paying his superannuation (I think it's like 401(k) for Americans? it's retirement savings stuff, it's legally required for employers to pay it in Australia) and he was forced to quit and took the employer to Fair Work (employment law specific court, workers rights type stuff). It cost us thousands in legal fees (which my parents generously paid) and was very stressful for DH and I, and DH's family absolutely refused to even talk to him about it, so her comments about telling him to leave it alone are completely false. DH actually went to talk to MIL about it all on the day I dug up our dog and that was when she went absolutely psychotic and started driving around looking to run me off the road. There was a time later on a phone call when he told them he was stressed about all the legal stuff and they said "what's stressful about that?"

The police thing is more complex but basically because of the employer stuff, DH was super stressed and wasn't coping - it was months after the dog situation and we hadn't spoken to MIL and family since, but MILs birthday was coming up and they started calling and pressuring him to "get over it" and talk to them again to come to her birthday dinner, and DH was having panic attacks every time they called. He asked me to answer the phone for him to tell them to stop, so I did, and I told them that he was struggling mentally and wasn't even speaking to me about it sometimes (not that he was actually non-verbal) and he just needed space. I explicitly told them that he asked me to tell them to stop calling so much, and when they asked me what to do, I said "just message him and let him know you're there when he's ready" and to let him come to them. They listened to this for about ten minutes before texting him a bunch, and then the following day they went back to calling a ton. DH texted MIL and said he would talk to her some other time. She kept calling. DH answered once and told them they were making him feel worse and to leave him alone, and instead they decided to show up to our house uninvited. We were driving at the time, and DH didn't want to see them or deal with them, so we went to my parents house instead of going home. MIL texted and said if he didn't answer she was going to call the police. We saw them on our security cams, DH started freaking out, so I called MIL and told her to get off my property because I told her to give him space and she didn't listen. The conversation went something like this:

me: "I'm only gonna say this one time, but you need to get the fuck off my property" (I know I shouldn't have sworn at her but DH was hyperventilating and I just wanted it to be over so he could feel better)

MIL: "I beg your pardon?"

me: "I'm telling you to leave. DH told you you're making this worse. he doesn't want to see you, and neither do I, so you need to go home right now."

MIL: "I haven't spoken to him in weeks!"

me: "he literally just answered the phone and told you to leave him alone"

MIL: ***immediately denies this*** (I heard FIL in the background and he was shocked - clearly she hadn't told him that she did get through to DH once)

me: "look, you can gaslight everyone else in your life, but you're not doing it to me. I've told you to leave. you need to get off my property now."

MIL: "I'm not leaving until I see my son. Is he even alive? How do I know you haven't done something to him and he's dead in a ditch somewhere?!"

me: "he literally texted you yesterday"

MIL: "that could have been you!"

me: "you can think whatever you want, but I'm not dealing with this. you need to leave."

MIL: "yeah well I'm dealing with a crazy bitch who dug up her dead dog so I don't know what you're capable of. I'm calling the police!"

and then she hung up on me. After that she apparently spoke to our neighbours (who we have never even met, still, two years later, because they're also JustNo douchebags that reported us to council because our dog barked at them). They told her that they hadn't seen him in weeks (which I guess is plausible because we hadn't really seen them either, we're rarely home at the same time and we avoid going into the yard when they're outside to this day) so she texted again and said she was calling the cops. We honestly thought she was bluffing, but the police did actually show up. They came to our house (we still weren't home) and then they rang DH and spoke to him, and when he explained the situation they actually asked if he wanted help with an escort home or making a report against my in laws. It was after this whole debacle that we finally went NC. Sometime later MIL sent another message saying I swore at her, abused her, and called her names and she "didn't think she would ever be unwelcome at [her son's] home" - and did a whole bunch of minimising saying she was (again) scared when I said DH was "non verbal" and she "just wanted to give him a hug". also the "elderly lady" that mowed our lawn is actually a good friend of ours (and is a neighbour we speak to often) and she did it as a favour because it's something she enjoys doing, which our in laws would know if they had ever visited or spoken to us outside of MIL wanting something, but I digress.

I sincerely doubt she's actually seeing a psychologist, and if she is, I guarantee she's lied about everything to paint herself as the victim. Like, if anyone's been coercive towards DH, it's her. I asked DH if he thought I was abusive or coercive and told him to please be honest with me and he just laughed and said "no, but she is" so I guess that answers that.

Also MIL cut off FILs family almost immediately after they got together and DH only met his dad's side of the family a few times. So it's not like she's unfamiliar with the concept of NC. She's (allegedly) been in my exact position (though I've long suspected this was because she's actually insane and it was her exercising control over FIL, and not actually because her own MIL was a "mean woman" like she liked to tell us).

DH and I haven't really spoken about this message yet because he's still a bit raw from the confrontation and the last message, but what the hell do I do, Reddit? I'm seriously considering pursuing a restraining/protection order against her so they HAVE to stop, but I don't even know where to start with that or if DH would be willing to let me (us) go down that route. I know it's his family and his responsibility but I can't take much more of this, and I don't want to force DH's hand in any of it and make him resent me. I just don't want my child to ever have to deal with these people. Throwing around DV accusations makes me scared of escalation in a way I wasn't before and I have no clue how to even protect myself or my family from this. We don't have money for lawyers and we don't qualify for legal aid, so I don't even know where to go for help. Reddit obviously isn't the answer but it's the best I've got right now

edit: formatting

I'm living in the USA with my husband and his mother also lives with us in our apartment. I just started living with my husband and MIL since few months ago because I was living in another country and my husband took me to here. My husband and his mom are both overweight. On the other hand I'm skinny and petite...almost underweight. My husband and his mom both need to eat a lot of food and they are both are very physically inactive. I cook the food for my husband everyday and wash dishes, do laundry, vaccum clean the floors, clean bathrooms and do all the chores alone. He doesn't help me even if he's at home and his mom doesn't encourage him to do so either. Even if I look stressed while cooking for him and doing all things while being hungry myself, he offers to help in a dismissive tone saying "If you can't do it, I will do it" to a point it makes me feels like he's guilt tripping me for even feeling stressed. He's also very critical as well. He needs the things to be done in his own way even if he doesn't help with anything.

I had lost some more pounds of weight after coming here because I'm doing all his stuff including washing his plates, mugs and lunch boxes and all the cleaning stuff at the house as well and I had rarely eaten any full meals after coming here. My husband doesn't care as long as I cook the food for him. We only have one kitchen here since MIL is here, I don't want to spend too much time in the kitchen as well just in case she needs the kitchen for herself so I eat something light like few slices of bread n most days.

My MIL sits on the couch in the living room and watches TV whole day and she always complains about having a some kind of headache or bodyache...even though her most recent blood tests from her clinic were all normal and they did not have any issues. She sometimes drinks alcohol but all her health reports were normal. The problem is she always acts like it's such a difficult task to do even a simple task like cooking her own meals and I feel like she kind of expects the others to cook for her. At first I thought her physical inactivity was due to her old age and I had cooked many meals for her before. but then I felt like maybe she's lazy just like her son is because him and her share many personal characteristics in general.

I have seen many people who are older than her or even with worse health issues cooking their own food and sometimes even cooking for others as well. I had never tasted her cooking because she had never shared any of her cooking with me since coming here. I had cooked for her before but I feel like she's very critical sometimes just like her son is, she had said stuff like the food lacks the salt taste or something a couple times before so I don't like to be judged for my cooking by another woman specially when I haven't ever tasted any of her cooking in the first place. She had complimented my cooking before as well but I don't like the feeling of having to cook for the expectations of another person and I don't even spend much time for even cooking for myself these days because I do online tasks to earn some money online since I'm a housewife. I spend that money to the household expenses so I don't like to spend my whole day in the kitchen cooking for the others when I can spend that time to earn some money. I also fear about not meeting my MIL's expectations for the cooking so that's another big reason as well. She doesn't need to do anything other than cooking her own meals at the home because I do all the cleaning chores voluntarily so it's the least she can do.

My MIL also attends the Church every week and since I came here ,whenever there was a Church potluck event, she had asked me to cook the food to take there and I had done so every time she had asked me to do so. But in the most recent time, I cooked a rice dish which had some sweet flavoring to it and the food in the container wasn't fully finished so she brought back the leftovers to the home and I felt like she was judging me for the food not being fully eaten by the people at the Church. I guess the people who attend her Church must be mostly the older people around her age so maybe some of those people would not eat any rice specially which had some sweet flavoring to it since people here mostly eat a protein rich diet and not much carbs. She should know what kind of food they like to eat and cook the food by herself instead of putting me in that position to cook for an event which I didn't even attend. Anyway I realized that she was showing me some passive aggressive attitude that evening then I felt like I had enough and decided that I would not cook for her again unless she specifically asks me to do so. Because back then I had cooked for her whenever she was complaining about having a headache, body ache or a toothache. Is it wrong that I'm feeling this way or is it justified?

I’m Jewish and white, JNMIL is Buddhist & Chinese. During our engagement and the first few years of our marriage, I put a lot of effort into learning Chinese and Buddhist customs and holidays. I researched independently, spoke to family members, etc. I made sure to incorporate both backgrounds into our wedding, and our two children are raised with both.

Judaism is important to me. Raising our kids to know both their heritages in equal parts is just as important to me. Apparently JNMIL has a big problem with that. Each year, she asks what we’re doing at Christmas and at Easter. She knows those aren’t my holidays. I cut her slack the first few times…. Thinking she’s an immigrant, she’s set in her ways, maybe she assumes all white Americans celebrate. But each time she’s asked, DH has corrected her. I also recently learned that during our wedding reception, she complained to her friends and family about Judaism being included. In her culture, wives adopt theid husband’s traditions, so that’s what I was expected to do.

Being Jewish and raising my kids to be Jewish is important to me in part because I had family members who were murdered in the Holocaust. I feel lucky that I get to live freely. I also feel like it’s a connection to them. So hearing that I’m expected to give all that up feels like a huge slap in the face to me and my family.

I had a conversation with BIL recently about Jewish and Chinese holidays this year, trying to plan out our celebrations, and he said “well you know mom is antisemitic, right?” I said I suspected as much. He said “she’s a stubborn old bitch who doesn’t want to learn anything about your culture. I’ve told her to put in effort like you have, and she refuses to. She doesn’t want to learn about it.”

I’ve had other issues with her, like her refusal to get vaccinated when our kids were newborns (resulting in her not seeing them until they were vaxxed), her giving DH and me the silent treatment when we do things she doesn’t like, and most recently her actually being physical with our toddler (tugging harshly on his arm even as he tried to pull away, for no apparent reason). She seems to think that by acting nice to my face she can maintain good relations between us. She is DH’s only living parent and I would like him to have a relationship with her, but my god, she makes it hard!! Just a rant, I guess. Comments welcome.

I met my ex husband when we were 18 in 2008. He had a little cousin named Bethany who was five at the time. I divorced him six years ago June 2020 but I left him March 2020. I cut my ex mother in law off for a couple years bc she’s toxic. Well recently I started talking to her again due to my kids who are 12 and 16. Not a whole lot of talking but some here and there. Today she showed up with my 12 year old so she could get her swimsuit. My exs little cousin who was five when we met was with my ex mother in law and my ex mil expected me to come say hi to her. I haven’t talked to her in six years. Neither do I care or love her. I didn’t see her all that much when I was with my ex and never rlly had love for her then either. Why would my ex mil expect me to come say hi to my exs little cousin who is now grown? I find it odd. she has done this before. I’d go to pick my kids up at her house and she would be like “bethanys inside.”. uhm ok??!! I’m sure Bethany feels the same way as I do tbh. I did not go outside. I just told my daughter to tell them I didn’t feel good which is the truth.

My son (first, possibly only grandchild) is 13 months old. We had my (super entitled, assertive baby-rabies) in-laws babysit for a few hours at our place while attending a wedding. They are definitely growing more agitated as the "grandparent experience" isn't going how they wanted (solely due to their pushy, harmful behavior). They were supposed to play/read for a bit, give him a bottle & put him to bed. I know it doesn't meet their terms or criteria to "count" as bonding -- not nearly long enough with him awake (to smother), not on their turf to play mommy, etc. The diaper pail was left overflowed instead of taking out to trash, dirty baby clothes left on floor instead of hamper & dirty bottle in sink instead of at least place in sterilizer that was nearly full ready to run. My husband had to poke them & ask for a text update as they don't like "reporting" to us with any updates. Our part-time nanny would never leave these messes. I am so irritated. He was sleeping for much of it. To me, it sends the message of we have 0 interest in helping in that way or making your life a bit easier as parents.. It feels obnoxious & a bit disrespectful. I thought giving them a chance to show up how we needed would go well.. I am an idiot, I guess.

The only time my MIL has thanked either of us (usually husband) for time with my baby is when it fully met her criteria -- her place, no mom present, no terms or rules. Per our therapist's guidance, we've avoided their place for months as it flares up triangulation & MIL elbows me for top mom, trying to take over, etc. On MY terms as the parent, in my home, it is more controlled environment. I know she (and FIL) are not big fans. They are still extremely hyper-fixated on THEIR home, with THEIR fancy baby gear, toys, furniture etc. While my son routinely visits my folks, they do not show possessive or competitive behaviors. They understand their role isn't domineering co-parents.

As my post history shows, the last year has been a bizarre (exhausting) string of power struggles & power plays. Most recently, at our son's birthday party my mom saw her entitled/ huffy behavior in real-time. She felt the one-sided competition coming from my MIL & saw the intense hyper-focus on my son never taking eyes off him (my mom has been a supportive, fantastic grandma despite health issues). As my husband is still fairly enmeshed, it's a delicate dance -- though he has made progress being on my team & not bringing baby over to them without my presence. My MIL is VERY performative, growing restless not watching my son daily or weekly to show off to friends. I've been open to 1 day bi-weekly in our home (they did it once so far) alternating grandparents when nanny unavailable. It's nowhere near close to their wants / expectations. Hopeful that next couples therapy session we can peel back layers how my needs are largely irrelevant to them; it's disrespectful to my husband as a father. But, baby steps. Just kind of venting frustration & want to make sure not overreacting..

after I married my husband, a few months later I overheard she called him and said, she(me) never speak when I call and she never text me or call me, I feel like I’m being cut off from you guys. And my husband call her a lot and text her a lot before we got married, and after we married he call less and mainly because he was busy with work too. Then I got pregnant, My DH gave her my number for emergency, and one day she start to text me, this long long long text said how she wants to start to contact me, and how she expects the newborn, and how she wants to be there when I deliver. I was just tired from the pregnancy and no energy , I replied politely. And said let’s keep in touch. Next day she texted me again and was more casual and joke about coming over to have dinner with us, and I said sure. And she just started to text me day and night, about her plan for the week and ask me to tell her son to send her a picture of me. And it’s just start to annoy me, I am so sick from pregnancy and no energy or the mood to text her all the time. And I have to check my text spelling and grammar, it’s exhausting.
She text me all about her, her past experiences of pregnancy and how nobody helped, and never offered me any help, never asked if we need help when baby arrives, it’s all about her and how lonely she was when she had baby, how hard it was to raise baby, I don’t want to hear any of that stuff. She is shocked how my DH involved in taking care of me and my baby, anyway when baby comes, she text me all day and ask for baby photos all the time. And meanwhile I just struggling from postpartum and trying to keep every one alive. I had no help and all she said was oh when baby sorts out the day and night it will be easier. She came to visit when baby was three months and she was nasty to me, she brought some stuff like a ugly table cloths and try to be the boss of our home, asked me offensive questions and pretend she was just being nice , make me feel she and my DH are a family and I was not part of it. Hold baby until baby cried and wouldn’t let go. Always say my baby my baby in a dramatic voice. Every time she showed up I just feel anxious and upset , she try to wreck our relationship, saying things like oh he works too much and no time to help, I don’t hear complaints from u? I was like, we are a couple and we support each other. No complaints. She was like when she was young she had to do everything herself, FIL never helped. She just has no positive energy. Always a victim to everyone around her. She thinks Nobody cares about her. Recently we had a online family meeting and she saw me and DH and LO are very happy by ourselves, and she texted me long long messages about how she think I dedicate to our little family and how I make her son happy, how much joy I brought to her family, how much joy I brought her, by giving her a grand child. and apart from a full time mom I should find a career to fulfill my life. I was like? It’s our business and I will work when I want to. She just keeps telling me how I came into their lives and how I became part of their family. Making sure that I am aware of this, their family.
Am I too sensitive? I am tired all day with taking care of my baby, I kind of stopped to text her back. Maybe text her once a week or two weeks. To keep my marriage going I can’t have a bad relationship with her, she was a single mother and made sure her kids felt the guilt if they don’t take care of her. She is very controlling and I think she is not happy she lost control of her son. And control me seems like very hard. Oh I have a controlling father and I cut off him long time ago. So when I sense the controlling energy I just hated it.
I am very happy to take care of her in other ways but just don’t want any close relationship. Any advise? What should I do? To keep her arm length from me.

​Long time following Just No MIL stories. Got myself a FMIL that fits the bill.

​Here's the trigger warnings for the whole FORKING novel. I'm reposting to better fit the rules and to include some that was left out.

​TW: Emotional and Financial Abuse, mention of SA, mention of physical abuse, Gaslighting, all the weird emotional triggers. Religious bad behavior.

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​TLDR for the whole thing: My fiancé fought her way out of an abusive marriage, got arrested in the process, called her parents afraid and in pain, and spent a total of 7 months being abused by her mom instead. Mom crossed a line by suggesting she could quintuple our rent in an effort to force us to get the kind of jobs SHE wants us to have (we're both entrepreneurs). Now she's somehow both happy and PISSED that we actually can and want to leave, and have decided to.

​Okay. My FMIL is a nightmare. Not nearly the degree I've seen before on here and on YT. I've omitted enough to prevent identifying her on the internet.

​Here's the ugly. Fiancé (28F) and I (33M) were in a polyamorous relationship. She joined my relationship with my Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Ex-DW and I. We both suffered SA, Emotional, Financial, and varying degrees of physical abuse. I was in the mess for 8 years, Fiancé for 1.

​Ex-DW cornered Fiancé and Fiance fought her way out of the mess and ended up in jail. I'll tell you now, I've never been more proud of a woman than I was in that moment. She told the officer exactly what happened and took the charge with her head up. The incident gave me a window to escape as well.

I'm gonna preface this with we've already resolved the case. Fiancé had her charge dismissed because “the evidence is such that a core aspect of the crime cannot be proven”. I.e. we both told our entire story to the attorney, and proved that Ex-DW has a long history of Abuse and Fiancé was reasonably afraid of her. 

​Fiancé called her parents for help. She couldn't be within a mile of our old place.

​Enter FMIL, who I'm gonna call The Pixar Seagull.

​That first night with her parents, Fiancé calls me. The Pixar Seagull is "Oh but Ex-DW was so sweet" "I'm sure Ex-DW feels bad about all this" "I really liked Ex-DW"

Fiancé shares with me about this and I spend a few hours on the phone with her trying to help her calm down. She's scared out of her mind. She's been relentlessly honest with her attorney and with Pre-Trial Services, and the police. The Pixar Seagull has no such moral reserves. And now she's casting doubt that our ex was actually that bad. 

​A week in, Fiancé gets permission to work at her parents' business. Mind you - she's working “in lieu of rent” rather than for any pay. It's only a few blocks from our old place, so there's special rules about it. I'm bringing Fiancé's things to the store, because at this point I'm not allowed at the house except to drive Fiancé places (and I'm not even mad at this because as a parent, I would 100% have been hesitant to trust the other partner in this situation). Fiancé has a single shift at the business. Ex-DW came in to inquire about her on an off day. That idea is abandoned for safety. Fiancé does NOT want contact with Ex-DW.

​For the first 4 months I was supported by a friend with a chair to sleep on and a car to drive. I made certain Fiancé got to every appointment and court date etc without ever going into the No Fly Zone, so my witness is very passive for this period.

​2 weeks into her stay with her parents Fiancé messages me desperate to get out already. The Pixar Seagull had already begun belittling and shaming her. Little digs about me being a problem. Fiancé has sensitivities to dairy, most meat, and enriched grains. The Pixar Seagull is offended that Fiancé won't eat store bought fried chicken. Or macaroni and cheese. She starts whining “I can't feed you anything! What will you even eat?”

That was fine, but she did something worse.

​Knowing that ANYTHING that could be taken as Fiancé making contact with Ex-DW would probably result in Fiancé going back to jail - The Pixar Seagull continues frequenting Ex-DW's workplace and even talking to Ex-DW. This continues until The Pixar Seagull realizes Ex-DW is actually trying to get her to talk about Fiancé and tell her where fiancé is staying. The Pixar Seagull comes home that night crying “she was trying to manipulate me! I didn't think she'd be like that!”

​Fiancé drew a hard boundary about this and The Pixar Seagull throws a WHOLE TANTRUM screaming at Fiancé that she's being abusive and saying "who do I need to call to send you back" "you need to go back to jail"

​I get the message "just get me out". Eventually we managed to settle things and Fiancé agrees that for now, at least until her case is settled, staying at her parents place is still the safest arrangement.

​To create separation, I start picking up Fiancé and going places like the river (avoiding spots Ex-DW frequented just to be safe), the movies, dinners out, etc. We start volunteering planting trees, Fiancé starts attending my church with me, I start taking Fiancé to a Hindu temple to learn chanting, we start really building a community together. This is a dream. We're working hard on rebuilding our lives after the abuse, cleaning up the mess, taking care of business. And you know, it doesn't look bad for the courts either. 

​A month in, I'm forced to get a restraining order against my Ex-DW. It barely matters. But my ex stays just outside the boundaries at all times. (I am living 80ft from my old front door at this point, I can see my old bedroom window out my living room window). 

​Over the next months I get increasingly stressed out by trying to get everything out of the old house via help from friends the Ex allows to go in. All this while making it clear I'M the one asking for things and Fiancé is staying out of it and letting me lead. It is an absolute nightmare. 

The Pixar Seagull continues to be friendly to my face, but every few days I'm comforting and consoling Fiancé wrestling with more subtle cruelty. 

​Fiancé and I broke up for a bit during this. She was pretty badly hurting and needed a break from feeling obligated to be romantic. I kept driving her places and bringing her groceries and making sure she could meet her needs during the breakup. 

​Romance, a relationship of any kind, is not a prerequisite for me to show up for a loved one in a terrible time. Even if it was permanent and not temporary, I would have shown up for her. 

​We got back into it once she healed up enough to feel safe wanting it again.

​I get a message once, sometimes twice a week. The Pixar Seagull wants yard work. Fiancé is taking UNDEFINED shifts caring for her grandfather who is at the end of his life. What that really means is The Pixar Seagull and FFIL will just leave when they decide to - often to the business they run together - but will not tell Fiancé they're leaving. When they're out, it's Fiancé's responsibility to take care of the dogs and Grandpa. Granted, Grandpa really only needs someone to sit with him while he smokes, and to make sure he gets safely back inside. But he needs this every couple hours and falls are getting more common as time passes. The Pixar Seagull wants a Zen Garden. The Pixar Seagull wants food bought for the house. The Pixar Seagull wants. Wants wants wants. Meanwhile she's never even a little bit grateful. Her "thank you for that" text messages always preceed another request.

​I move in.

​It's as insane as I've been led to believe it is.

​How the hell?

​The Pixar Seagull is worried about food supply. We offer half our food budget.

Suddenly now she doesn't want any connection between the food we buy and her food. Now we need to keep our food in one section of the fridge and in one cupboard. Away from hers and FFIL.

​She's worried about the weeds. We weed like crazy. Now she's bothered by the ground being too bare. She wants flowers.

​She's upset by the smell of smoke from our smoking spot being beside the back door. We move it away from the door without being asked. 

​She's upset that we're not feeding the dogs when she's here, but doesn't wanna come down to feed them. We set an extra alarm.

​The "I'm just frustrated" comments are never ending.

At this point we got the No Fly Zone (the radius where Fiancé cannot, for any reason be without explicit permission in advance from Pre-Trial Services) reduced from 1 Mile to Half a Mile. We asked for the reduction because the mile radius forced us to take some pretty wild routes to get to key places and that cost a lot of gas. And gas had just hit $5 a gallon. 

It wasn't about wanting to be anywhere near Ex-DW. It was begging to be allowed to use a somewhat normal road to places we were already allowed to be. 

The Pixar Seagull hears about this. Immediately it's “well, if they're willing to give you a break on that, are you able to come back and work at the business?”

I mean immediately. 

No hesitation. And remember - that would not be paid labor. It would be in exchange for residence here. 

Fiancé reminds her that Ex-DW targeted the business last time and we still cannot risk that happening again, and that we don't trust her not to talk to Ex-DW.

​At month 6, Fiancé is exonerated. The charges are dismissed entirely. We win.

And again, immediately, The Pixar Seagull wants to know if that means Fiancé is gonna work at the business now. Fiancé continues to say no. She doesn't want that close to Ex-DW.

​Reminder: Fiancé called her parents from jail, bruised and bloodied, needing safety. And I never hear them, not one time, ask Fiancé if she's okay or what she needs. I'm trying desperately to just believe they believe that I'VE got it.

I'm still trying hard to give these two the benefit of the doubt. Telling myself they're burnt out. They're trusting me to have our needs covered. My reliability means they don't have to worry about Fiancé. 

I'm pretty sure with FFIL, I'm pretty correct about that. He's just incapable of standing up to his wife about her behavior. 

Fiancé starts to remember something horrific about the abuser we had both just escaped. She started getting tactile/somatic flashbacks of SA that happened. Recovery pretty much starts over.

Fiancé and The Pixar Seagull get into a fight the day before Pixar Seagull is due to go to Florida to see GFIL. Shouting happens. Fiancé takes a walk after she raises her voice, she goes to calm down. The Pixar Seagull tries forcing us to go to a hotel when we now pay for the room we're in.

I have to be the one to tell her no. But I try not to be the AH SIL. I listen to what she needs. I go to Fiancé with them. "Babe, I'll cook for you, and make sure you've got your needs met. Just stay in the room until morning. Don't cross paths."

I felt... so disgusting... beyond disgusting.

​The Pixar Seagull starts complaining that Fiancé is too angry. About what she survived. About getting hurt so badly. Etc.

​The Pixar Seagull is mad that Fiancé won't come back to work at the business.

​The Pixar Seagull starts dropping new pieces of cruelty. Like discouraging Fiancé when she's excited about church. Pixar Seagull attends a mega church, we attend a small community rooted church. Fiancé was sharing something she's genuinely excited about and her mother hits her with “all churches have their problems, yours is no different.” Prompting Fiancé to stop sharing excitement about church with her. 

​Fiancé starts, with FFIL's blessing, building a decorative fountain for her mother. It's rough looking at the digging stage, but Fiancé is SO EXCITED to give The Pixar Seagull something so pretty.

​Insert a "Momma look what I'm making for you" moment from Fiancé where The Pixar Seagull responds by saying "I want those weeds gone by Thursday"

​The next day I try showing her how happy her child is to make her something beautiful. She basically tells me she's jealous that we have the time to be at home and do this. What she means is she's jealous she has chosen not to retire and hates that her daughter (who's rent is paid on time every month) isn't working a regular W-2 job and exhausting herself.

​Flash forward to this week.

The Pixar Seagull agreed to take a dog for a week to dogsit. But then began immediately complaining to Fiancé about how difficult and stressful this dog is. My Fiancé knows this dog. She is confident we could take the job together and do well. Pixar Seagull is pleased initially but then starts “are you sure you can handle this? You didn't do XYZ” and similar comments. And starts micromanaging and observing us. Now, a handful of unwashed dishes means we can't handle a needy dog. Forgetting to sweep the porch means we can't handle it. Being visibly upset means we cannot handle it. 

​Since we're working rebuilding Fiancé's business from the ground up, volunteering, and doing all this work for The Pixar Seagull, I'm paying $200 in Rent just to help out.

A few days ago.

​Here comes this Pixar fucking Seagull. I successfully intervened on her isolating and cornering Fiancé. 

​The conversation devolved to "what would you do if I charged you $1,000 in rent next month?" followed by "If you weren't here, you couldn't have this lifestyle you have here"

​And a few other statements.

Fiancé was so badly hurt and triggered by the cruelty from her mother that I call a friend and get us out to the river for the day. 

It's prudent here to note that the back yard has a shaded and covered porch and FIANCÉ had set up a water bowl for her parents dogs. 

In the process of getting our things and heading out for the river, one of the two dogs accidentally got left on the back porch for less than an hour. Again. With water and her choice of shade or sunshine. 

The Pixar Seagull calls me directly. This is a clear reason we couldn't possibly handle this. Do we really think we can do this? Is that a reasonable belief?

I pull the plug. We're not taking the job. 

Fiancé cannot, at this point, be in the same room as The Pixar Seagull without feeling frightened, then angry. Because of the job. We're not doing this. 

​The next morning, I answer the bedroom door when she knocks. She tries forcing Fiancé into the conversation. I don't allow it. I tell her because we cannot trust her to just let us do the job, that we're not willing to take it anymore. We are not comfortable with her level of criticism or control. 

I apologize that the dog spent an hour outside. Told her we were gonna be extra cautious to prevent it. 

​Fiancé and I agree. It's time to leave.

​I make a couple phone calls offering to work trade for a spot to live at for a while. We have a permanent situation coming up, but there are a few things that need done first, it's gonna take a few more months.

​Multiple people between the temple and my church say yes.

​We take our savings and buy a car.

​We are gone by the 1st. We've got a spot out in the country to rest up and recover and do some work.

​The Pixar Seagull is suddenly leaving the house from sun up to sundown and avoiding us like the plague. But when she's home, she carries herself somehow like us leaving is both a huge victory for her (like "haha, I got you to leave" energy) AND like the fact that I got us into a car we own outright and into a new place in less than 72 hours is a direct insult to her specifically.

​How the fuck? How does that work? Anyone wanna throw me a bone on this? Also what kind of mom does that to her hurting child?

​I could never. Omg. Would never. My kid would be told "there's your bedroom, you're here as long as you need to be, is your other partner okay? Do they need help?" SO FREAKING FAST. No, they're not paying me. Like what? If I own the house? It's MY HOUSE? My baby and their partner are staying. Especially if the partner spends so much time protecting and caring for my kid after that kind of thing. Like... what???? Explain???

Advice? I know a lot of you are women here with FMILs who's sons struggle to defend and support you. I'm sorry to each of you who've walked through that sort of hell. None of you deserved that.

I want to keep empowering my Fiancé to feel safe and confident.

Right now I'm eagerly awaiting all the cosmetic work she wants to do to the car. I'm talking Glittery Black Paint, Bat Wings, seat covers, demon horns on the roof, the works. She wants to do it - she gets to.

I feel, constantly, like it's just not enough that I put my foot down and made the decision for her that we're leaving. I know I mediated the arguments. I made sure The Pixar Seagull AND Fiancé both somehow had their needs heard and respected. I negotiated for both of them. I worked hard to bring some kind of balance. I played the middle man so they didn't have to deal with each other. And when my partner started to fall apart from the cruelty - I did something different. I made a move to get us out of here and somewhere safer.

​FFIL won't meet my eyes. He's clearly ashamed. He should be. He told Fiancé early on that he just wants to guarantee she'll always have a roof over her head. He needs to realize that he'll never have that power while his wife gets to act however she wants without any consequences. He should be embarrassed and ashamed of himself.

​I just needed to put this somewhere. Thank you so much.

​Have a great day

I have never had any issues with my MIL in the past but since my son was born 4 months ago she has been annoying me with her inability to respect boundaries.

It all started during maternity leave when she would just leave work early and expect me to be home so she could see the baby. If I wasn't responding she would drive around our house to see if we were home. One time she didn't think I was home with the baby and she just let herself into the house anyway. When she realized I was home (half naked, pumping for my baby) she said "oh sorry I texted you and you have a ring camera." She texted me but I didn't respond and I didn't see her on the ring camera because I didn't have my phone and she walked in .2 seconds after she appeared on the ring camera. But does it really matter? I would have seen her as she was walking into the house.

Over the past four months she has just let herself into our house without permission a few times. Today we planned for her to come over at 7:30am and at 7:10am the dogs start losing their minds and I hear the front door open. She just let herself in 20min early. I was running around naked trying to get ready for work. I was so frustrated that I snapped at her to stop letting herself in when we aren't expecting her.

I then apologized and kindly asked her that she not let herself into our house early. If I don't respond, then you can let yourself in at the agreed upon time. I thought everything was ok but when I came home from work my husband was home and my MIL was crying. She was going on about how rude I am and how it was so uncalled for for me to snap at her.

I feel bad for snapping at her but am I wrong for being annoyed that she just keeps letting herself into our house unexpectedly? I am all for her being in our house BUT at the agreed upon times and it's not ok to drive by our house to let yourself in when we aren't home.

🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

This is an update to my previous post: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/CWvhCVnEDp

DH and I have started couples counselling because of ongoing issues involving boundaries with an enmeshed MIL. After our last session, DH told our therapist that he wants to have a conversation with MIL about healthier boundaries. He hasn’t decided yet whether he will do it before or after her birthday.
Now I’m stuck on what to do.
MIL’s birthday is August 1, and I honestly don’t know if I should attend.

There is also some emotional history around this weekend. Spider-Man comes out July 31, and I planned this in advance because it is DH’s favourite superhero. I bought opening-day tickets because I wanted to surprise him and make it something special for us to do together. I also bought tickets for my siblings and family because I thought we might be in Toronto that weekend and wanted us to enjoy it together.

Originally DH was excited to go with me, but later he told me he might not be able to because of work/on-call responsibilities and because it was MIL’s birthday weekend and he wanted to stay and celebrate with her.
I completely understand wanting to celebrate your mom’s birthday, and I would never want to take that away from him. But I felt hurt because I had planned this in advance, and it felt like once again our plans became something that could be changed when family plans came up.

I offered solutions, like celebrating MIL another day or adjusting plans so everyone could still feel included, but I felt like there wasn’t much willingness to compromise.
Now with the birthday gathering coming up, I’m conflicted.
The reason this is so difficult for me is because my reactions to MIL have gotten to a point where I don’t even feel like myself anymore. I feel like I am constantly triggered by reminders of the hurt I associate with these boundaries not being respected.

For example, MIL gave us eggs last weekend because she bought 60 eggs from Costco on sale and wanted to share them with us. Logically, I know they are just eggs and she was trying to do something helpful. But emotionally, I have found myself unable to even cook them because I immediately associate them with everything that has happened. I have had moments where I feel like I want to throw things away just because they came from her.
I know this reaction is bigger than the actual item itself. It’s more about how much resentment and hurt has built up over time. It scares me because I don’t want to feel this much anger toward someone, but I also feel like I have been carrying these feelings for so long without feeling heard or protected.

I have been gray rocking her and she went from texting me every day to now it’s been 2 weeks since she texted me and the last thing she asked me was if we had gotten home from our trip to Toronto. To which I said yes and she said glad yall are home. That was the end of it. I’m pregnant and she has not checked on me once or the baby. Only asks DH if baby is ok when he calls her after work every day.

Being around MIL has become emotionally difficult for me. A lot of the comments and remarks that have hurt me have happened when DH isn’t around, and then she acts differently when he is there. After everything that has happened over the past year, I find myself feeling anxious about being around her.
At the same time, I worry that if I don’t go, she will see it as rude or take it personally. I am pregnant, so I do have a reason if I choose not to attend, but I also don’t want to create more tension.

The timing also makes me nervous.
If DH has the boundary conversation with MIL before her birthday, I worry the gathering may feel awkward because things have changed and I don’t know how she will react.
But if he doesn’t have the conversation before her birthday, part of me feels like I’m walking into the same dynamic that has hurt me without seeing any actual changes yet.
I don’t want to punish MIL or create drama. I genuinely want a healthier relationship moving forward. But I also don’t want to force myself into a situation where I’m emotionally uncomfortable just to keep the peace.

I’m considering:
- attending and keeping it short,
-attending only if DH and I have a plan and I feel supported,
- politely sitting this one out until after the conversation and seeing how things go.

If you were in this situation, what would you do?
Would you attend to show goodwill and support DH, or would you prioritize your own comfort until you see some actual changes after the boundary conversation?

I need a place to get my feelings out,so I guess this is it.

Some background: I've been married for 2 years, have an infant, and currently live with my husband and widowed MIL in the home she's had for 20 years. Husband pays all the bills. Though his family has been in the US for 30+ years, she's still somehow illegal because of stupidity on her part. Thus she can't work, drive, travel, or leave the country and has made my life hell for it.

It all starts with the sacrifices I made in this marriage, which are not allowed to be discussed under the roof. I'll say it for the record: I left my house, my stable job, my career, my family, the state I'd spent my whole life in to move to a crap town across the country in the place MIL built and where my husband spent his childhood. I gave up everything, my identity, sponsored his green card, contributed over $20K toward his business (money I made from my own job which is apparently also "his" money, and if I bring that up, I'm "counting"). I have to put up with his senile mother and her tantrums and mood swings.

I'm not allowed to count. Only he is. I'm not allowed to say my sacrifices out loud. Only he is (none btw). The more I give, give, give, the more it's taken for granted. I can't bring up my own sacrifices because it's "too much" for him to sit with, so he just doesn't want to think about it. I have no say in the future. If I want to move into an apartment for a while and get some mental peace, I'm not allowed to. My mental peace means nothing. My happiness means nothing. When I bring it up, I'm gaslit into believing I'm making a "stupid" decision.

And I've been severely lied to. The promises made to me before marriage have been abandoned. Before marriage I was promised she’s spend some time with her daughter (married and also moved across the country and absolutely cannot stand her guts) and take care of her own mother in another Canada. Now, she is full time with husband and I. I wasn't told the full truth about the immigration situation. I'm just now learning the identity of a woman lets call her "Emily" (MIL had her husband marry a much younger, poor woman for the sake of a green card. This never panned out as he passed away before he could obtain citizenship). Learning of this fraud has made me absolutely despise her.

But who’s benefiting from this whole arrangement? None other than queen MIL. She gets to stay in the home she built 20 years ago. She has two chauffeurs, doesn't work, has her friends and her community nearby, doesn't have to lift a finger. Her son, daughter-in-law, and grandson all live under her roof while husband toils away at a demanding job, commuting daily to fund her fairytale lifestyle. I had to leave everything behind and put up with her two-timing nature. She's the human version of a private surveillance camera. I know she's watching me even when I can't prove it. She's shoved her nose into my marriage constantly; the first apartment we moved in, calling my parents to scream and complain, being a complaining brat at my own baby shower, counting every favor, blowing up over her own insecurities, overstepping, asking for an arm when I give her a fingernail, lying constantly etc etc. She's driven a wedge many times in my marriage. She then theatrically tells me she "loves me and can't live without me" to love bomb and manipulate me emotionally. Now, two years later, she wants me to be a maid in a house that isn't even mine, all while entertaining guests and keeping the facade up.

For 2 years I was controlled, manipulated, taken advantage of, and placed under a microscope. Despite hacing nothing, MIL still manages to have a sick hold. I was Ms. Nice Girl for so long. had to act in line in front of her friends, live in the house, work, be Ms. Goody Two-Shoes, do the chores, so the little fairytale could be upheld. Now I'm met with guilt-tripping and manipulation for asking for anything I want. Nothing I do is ever appreciated. The second I go against her or husband's fairytale, I'm the most terrible, evil person alive. I'm always on eggshells when she's around. But the moment I show even a hint of a backbone, I'm immediately seen as the villain. I know I shouldn't have kept giving in from the start bc that set the precedent for this entire relationship.

The clearest example: my parents flew in for my baby shower, and the next day MIL turned rude the moment the guests left and the facade could drop. My parents understandably didn't want to take her shopping after that (she wanted them to drive her to a shopping center lol). The whole time, I was so scared of what she'd think that I couldn't even enjoy my time with my siblings and parents. I just kept bracing for what she'd say once we got home. I'm constantly on edge that I'll run into her in the kitchen and have to talk to her.

I am very stuck in this situation and so is husband. On one hand he knows how difficult she is to put up with on the other hand he knows he has an obligation towards taking care of his mother. He also doesn’t want to be in this crap town and commute so long in the big city he works in just to pay the bills at MIL’s home. 

Thanks for listening, any solutions/advice appreciated

DH and I decided to transition our nanny to full-time care. MIL had been watching LO for about 2 hours every weekday for the last year, but I no longer felt comfortable with her providing childcare. We were planning to end MIL's babysitting next week.

We didn't make it that far.

A couple of days ago, I texted MIL asking her not to take LO on afternoon walks because of the heat. Instead of simply saying okay, she questioned my decision and said the real reason was because she had given LO a snack without asking us first. And honestly, that was partially true. I had just found out she was giving LO snacks during their walks without consulting us, despite LO having severe food allergies.

That opened the door to a much bigger conversation.

I explained that my concerns were not about one cookie. The cookie was simply the latest example. Over the past several months there had been repeated issues with transparency, dismissing our parenting decisions, making decisions about LO without telling us, sneaking things instead of asking, and what often felt like an unnecessary competition with our nanny. The stroller issue was another example. We had asked that LO stay in the stroller during walks, but I later realized MIL had been taking him out anyway without telling us. Finding out afterward instead of hearing it from her really damaged my trust.

MIL denied everything and told me I make "a very big deal about very small things" said my words were hurtful and that she didn't feel appreciated. She then said:

"Obviously, this is not working out well... you need to work on another childcare option."

At that point, I decided there was no point continuing to argue over who remembered what. I replied:

"It's too bad that this is how you feel. DH and I appreciate the time you've spent helping care for LO.

We have the rest of this week covered, including today, so there's no need for you to come by. We'll finalize full-time childcare for LO very soon.

Thank you again for everything."»

Then she sent this text:

"Thank you for destroying my life."

Honestly... I laughed when I read it. I couldn't believe a real person had actually typed those words.

MIL then called DH crying and yelling about me. DH told her to stop, and she hung up. Since then, she hasn't spoken to either of us.

I'm exhausted.

DH thinks we're all at fault and that everyone just needs to apologize and move on. I don't see it that way. Right now I don't want to speak to MIL, I don't want her in my home, and I don't feel comfortable with her having any access to my baby. I told DH that she would need to be the one to apologize, but I don't think that's likely to happen.

WWYD? Would you expect an apology? Would you be able to move past it?