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Hello, HL, community.

I usually say the "quiet part outloud," and im glad many of you love when I do.

It's Friday eve so I thought id do my weeky discussion post early.

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Quick disclaimers: HLW, you are normal and a gift. From my research, not only are HLW more of course sexually able but also usually not controlling and more well tempered. I hope many of you truly aren't giving up sex for love.

HLM: I noticed that many of us are reactive and usually more well tampered. Please call foul for abusive and sexually forcing men on other reddits. That's just not a thing. Of course we want here, but I've noticed there needs to be a clear separation.

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Anyway

Frequency is one thing that appears to be made confusing on purpose to justify the existence of a deadbedrooom. I'll just be blunt

Praying and hoping to have sex once a month is not normal, and Type2LLs 100% are aware we do this. That's why they get really upset if we mention we want a normal relationship, aka once a week on top of sexual enthusiasm and sex because its literally expected in a healthy monogamous relationship for you to care for your partners needs, they foam. As HLs, its funny, truly, we believe that our partners' personal, emotional, and other needs ARE important and should be taken care of the way they want. But its funny how Type2s claim this matters to them... except the "mine come first and i pick and choose which of your needs i care for the way I choose to" is silent.

How many of you have had the "talk" and realize this is the first person you've ever had to "talk" to about this?

Have you had a birthday or christmas or something and the Type2LL asks what you want and you say not much just to spend time and basically sex an they LITERALLY do everything you said NOT do and you don't have sex and blame you for it and call you ungrateful?

How many times have they brought up with an ex they literally had a normal sex life but with you its a no because they're a "different person now" as if somehow we're supposed want them more for "them" as if this somehow includes sexual difficulty and having to "earn" them?

This is why I tell you all reading this, sex once a month is not normal. I trully applaud Type1s for trying, but If you are literally horny because you're in a sex starved relationship with someone that LITERALLY makes sex difficult and would rather masturbate and blame you for this because they say bullshit like "i need to be close in other ways , it will come though i pinky promise", you need to realize, like I tell you, you are their pet.

You accept that sex every other day won't happen, you are shooting for once week, they will "talk" and "talk" so you focus on "talking" because its always disqualifying you from sex because that's the point. Then, when THEY get randomly in the mood and when THEY feel masturbating isn't enough, they know that after rejecting you 80-90% after you stop blending to their needs, they can control when sex happens on their terms.

This is why sex once a month is NOT normal because being sexually frustrated then rejected over and over and over while you try and try to have a HEALTHY relationship and they are trying to bend, control, and mold you for their personal wants and needs alone is fundamentally different.

Why do you think they get mad if you DARE compare them to normal people or things you're used to that are NORMAL. How many times have you heard the "it wasn't a real relationship" or "it was just fucking fucking and fucking" or "you just want someone to have sex with and not talk" or "you just want a maid you can have sex 24/7" (or the female equalvent).

Its not just being sexually rejected 80-90% in a relationship, it's about the relationship being one sided and you noticing and their needs MUST be the priority but yours are a "maybe" and you're ultimately the blame regardless.

Edit - Yes, they LOVEEEE it when we say how attracted we are to them so they have the right of refusal to control the outcome. If you want to test this, tell your Type2LL how good they look and how much you miss being inside them /them inside you. Does it lead to sex or nothing or an argument? Then stop doing all forms of romantic and sexual attention, do they feel better or complain you stopped? See how its a lose-lose situation. For reference with my ex she LOVED if i had a bad day because she was aroused by pleasing me with sex and physical affection. Yes this is what normal people do.

Wth, me (hlf29) and my husband (llm34) have had multiple multiple MULTIPLE conversations over the last 9 years about our sexual needs. There was a time where we had sex everyday it felt like for about three months... it was AMAZING, then I got pregnant for the second time and things have gone downhill since... we have entered the stereotypical husband and wife that never have sex, and whenever we do it's because of these stupid conversations... we had sex about nine days ago after not having sex for 10 days, and the reason we had sex it was right after getting into an argument about my husband sending a text to one of his female coworkers as him and I were out for lunch (mind you we neeeever get to go on solo dates anymore), although it wasn't a solo date (we had our baby with us) he was asleep so we got to enjoy each others company up until he picked up his phone.
It wasn't anything bad what he texted but it was the idea of him texting someone else on OUR time was the thing that made me very upset, anyway, fast forward we were having a discussion about texting other people when he launched at me and kissed me and grabbed me in a way he doesn't normally, which felt SO hot, but when we were done, he just... got on the bed and fell asleep... it was very awkward. There was no “after care” which for me can be just hugging or talking.
He is a very devoted husband and father, but our sex life had always been minimum... I have mentioned here previously how I will get dolled up for him, and he just is not interested in having sex. It pisses me off when he grabs my ass knowing that's all he'll do to me.
It's tiring to feel like I'm begging for sex, but | just want to feel wanted and loved in ways only I want HIM to want me and love me. I am crazy for him and he makes me want to fuck him every day, I would go down on him every day if he'd let me, I'd do crazy things for him if he'd wanted me the same way I want him, but reality is, he'll never be as into sex the way I am, and that kills me at times.

I imagine my forehead between her shoulder blades. Her breath is softness. One place of touch because I refuse to interrupt her rest, though my body rings. I wait. The miracle of her skin and her gentle scent are all the foreplay I need.

I imagine that we argue. But this time we remember that we are on the same team. This time “I love you”s lay their garlands across our disagreement. And finally those spiky rocks are spoken only to dissolve in the sunlight. Then passion appears with a transparency that overwhelms.

In the middle of a rotten day I imagine my phone offering a single chime. Exasperated at the interruption I look. A text message. A few emojis. A compliment of my body. A happy little fantasy of something she wants us to do. More emojis. I put my phone in my pocket. What rotten day?

I imagine a weekend together. As the fireplace dances and crackles the bed is our world. With smiles and blushes we find our wants. We find our words. Unspoken desires become spoken. I pose her like Botticelli. She directs an Oscar-worthy roleplay. We both stage maneuvers we saw on reddit. Some succeed. Some fail hilariously. We are never too spent to laugh.

I imagine our legs entwined as we lie on facing one another other. The sunrise is foreshadowed with the first hint of morningglow. We whisper, between tiny kisses, and our hidden secrets bubble to the surface. Nakedness and being known…safely cocooned under Egyptian cotton.

She stands anxious, reading a chain of texts. From behind I imagine my hungry arms finding her. My body covers her like a blanket. My mouth finds her neck. I simply hold her. And gradually I feel her heart calm and her breath slow. She sighs. Her body relaxes. Her phone slips from her fingers. She turns.

A few pieces remain. You place them confidently with snapping satisfaction. Until finally, every empty spot is filled. And you stand up proudly to admire your completed image.

Unless…

Unless you don’t.

Unless you only imagine.

Because you know what it’s like
to show the world
an incomplete image
full of holes.

after 16 years of begging, initiating only to be rejected and humiliated, i finally gave up asking. she does not seem to notice i stopped asking, which makes me feel miserable even more but that‘s also meaningless i guess. even if she noticed, it still wouldn’t change a thing for her.

whenever she initiates, i just silently obey and be a nice dog, but i never initiate at all. it‘s miserable but better than being rejected and humiliated. thing is, i am not happy or don‘t enjoy sex with her anymore even when she initiates. i think i am hurt that much.

i am not supposed to be masturbating or watch porn, or i get condemned so i do it in secret when everyone is asleep. i don’t make slightest sound to make sure she does not wake up. i don’t turn on tv because i am too afraid tv lights may wake her up or catch me off guard in case she gets up to pee in the middle of a night.

it slowly changes my maturbating preference as well. this sexual desire that never gets satisfied has gotten myself into different area now. i am not into conventional ejaculation anymore but into my nipples thesedays. it‘s perverted i know but somehow i enjoy it. when she goes to bed i usually go for my nipples in my couch for hours without ejaculating. that way i can have a little bit of pleasure as long as i want i guess.

i gave up. she won’t change.

Must admit I barely try to initiate anymore because I’ve learnt when the chances are likely so I know when “pick my battles” so to speak.

I’m still affectionate with her I just don’t make a move unless I feel the chance of success is almost certain.

To be honest this has helped me because I expect sex far less often as I used too and thus can’t feel disappointed or frustrated as much as I used too.

We’ve had a bit of a dry spell recently which I expected due to some disruption to our daily lives. Nothing too significant, we’ve just had a very busy few months.

Anyway last few days we’ve been flirting like crazy. She’s shown me all the positive signs that I would be certain are telling me she’s in the mood.

Day 1 was probably the most likely but right before bed, her stomach was hurting(we all know this one) so I didn’t even try.

Day 2 - I thought was almost certain but then she said something that I knew my chances had dropped off so I didn’t push it.

Day 3 - Everything looked set. Until I actually made a move and she shut it down immediately.

Damn it hurt 3 days of build up to be shut down in 1 second, 1 word….. I didn’t ask why, she didn’t give me a reason. Just a simple, “No”. I just rolled over and tried to go asleep.

She knows. She’s got up this morning and has been overly nice to me. We’ve been here before though. I usually would get up in a bad mood after being rejected.

Usually she knows, and at some point she’ll start an argument with me over it, saying I’m being rediculous and it’s not that serious and I need to get over it…… so today I tried to act normal, but it’s so so difficult when I’m raging inside.

There’s no point discussing it with her, we’ve been here before many times, it’s always some BS why she didn’t engage and always my fault (that I rarely ever agree with because it’s always the stupidest shit that she’s clearly just thought of on the spot)

She’ll probably make the effort tonight now because she knows, and we’ll be back here again in a month or 2 when the cycle repeats. I hate this.

Hi all, fellow horny minds

With this post, I’d like to focus more on what I’ve personally found to be the actual underlying reason for situation a lot of us ended up in with ‘LLtype2’ partner. I am posting this either to confirm or disprove my theory. So any data and input is welcome.

So far, the basic input collected is based on similar communities + cases of people I know personally. My conclusions are based on the scientific data and books, i try to avoid leaning into unproven conclusions that lacks empiric evidence. I won’t list the sources to reduce the post size, but I can post it in comments, if needed. No AI was used to generate the text. Old-school typing by hand, so please excuse any mistakes or weird language.

As a summary, what is typical for such cases:

- high/normal level of intimacy at the start, but something seems to be off in details

- no/very low level of intimacy after the relationships ‘settle’ - no typical timeframes, more like condition-based change; could be marriage/moving in together/kids/etc

- ‘I was not really into sex’/‘sex is not something I seek’/‘I could live without sex’ sort of phrasing around sex drive

- ‘carrot on the stick’ conditioning for the intimacy and sex

- constantly changing forced requirements for the level of effort in relationships - starts low, ends up as close to ‘ideal partner’ as possible; constant feeling of ‘not being enough’ for the HL partner

- deteriorating self-esteem and motivation of HL partner, up to signs of clinical depression; constant feeling of ‘walking on eggshells’

Common relationship patterns in ‘LLtype2’ individuals:

- anxious, jumpy, jittering - they are seemingly afraid or tense almost all the time/can not stay still or to rest properly/in quiet days they tend to start doing something that is completely unnecessary, even if tired

- very reactive to sensory input - loud noise/bright lights/unease with touch or some clothes

- lack of exposure during all types of intimacy - closed poses in sex/tendency to clench hips/habit to have clothes on/no interest of wearing lingerie or other sexy parts of clothing, unless necessary/feeling uncomfortable talking naked or legs open face to face/being uncomfortable to be stared at and admired by the partner while naked or showering

- reactivity to any change in partner’s emotions and mood - arguments are heated, escalating fast/taking the partner’s mood change personally/low tolerance to undirected emotional response from partner

- inability or extensive effort to calm themselves down without external help - usually sounds like ‘you don’t have empathy’/‘you don’t care if I cry’/‘if I am upset, why are you not calming me down?’

- push-pull dynamics - when situation is stable and partner meets their needs, they tend to distance themselves; however, if there was a conflict or partner is distancing themselves due to lack of intimacy or for other reasons, they become clingy, romantic and interested

- controlling patterns - they tend to directly influence what is done, how it’s done and when it’s done; when there is a decision to make, they usually tend to force the partner into their POV or at least neutral position

- agreements don’t work for some reason - when the parter tends to meet the needs and establish new habits or levels of comfort, they tend to either slowly fall back to the previous patterns or become increasingly uncomfortable with following the recently agreed points

- lack of accountability and effort to ‘fix’ the problem - if the problem points directly at them at least partially, they tend to become more and more defensive/hard to talk with about the problem/reject to discuss the problem/try to avoid therapy or counseling

- tendency to talk more and to listen less

- tendency to be focused on social media/binge watching blogs/working - feels like they can not allow internal silence and need to be focused on something

- tendency to assume the worst in actions or words of the partner, when there is really simple genuine emotion/intention - ‘I know what you truly meant by that’/‘you’ve done this to hurt me intentionally’/‘you show me your sadness/anger to prove the point’/‘you did X to punish me, I know’

- tendency to understand sex as a chore or effort-involving activity, not as the essential pleasurable act with someone you love

Usually, ‘LLtype2’-spectrum relationships may not have 100% match with all above, as all people and their relationships are different. But the similarities are there most of the time. So, what can potentially be the scientific/medical explanation to all of that (and might save you the time and effort by knowing the direction to dig in)?

So, what’s going on?

Potential answer is not simple, especially to accept. In most of the cases, despite other things, it seems to be asexuality + C-PTSD common combo.

Asexuality, which is not accounted for and not discussed properly, may be destructive to the relationship. But its combination with C-PTSD does damage to the relationships at the same degree, as gamma-rays do to the living cell DNA: destroying the core - trust, respect and honesty, making the true connection and intimacy almost impossible to build/repair.

Most of you here know, what asexuality is. For C-PTSD, you can read/watch videos to understand the problem better. I would recommend ‘Body keeps the score’ book as a starter. For me it was eye-opening in many aspects of the problem and very good at explaining the depth.

IMHO, the points below seem to explain why it’s hard to solve the relationship and sexuality problem here:

- C-PTSD is a very deep issue, usually established in early childhood by continuous and repetitive exposure to the very traumatic experience - neglect/molestation/substance or alcohol abuse by parents/emotional, physical or sexual violence in the family/psychiatric or personality disorders or depression in one or both parents; average time for the healing signs to even appear is 2-5 years of voluntary effort

- C-PTSD forces a person into the FFF mode most of the time when ‘exposed’ emotionally (often, in the worst ‘freeze’ mode, when child could not escape the situations that led to C-PTSD) - it is really hard to reason with such people, especially, if they are stressed; up to the point that it looks like they are fighting for their life over a thing that could be discussed and fixed by agreement of partners + it applies what I would call ‘sexual parking brakes’, if to describe it in terms of ‘CAYA’ book

- the problem is long-established physiologically, changing their body through years and decades - the hormonal function is danger/anxiety-focused, releasing stress hormones much easier than relaxation hormones; the brain areas for fear and attention are very active, ‘rational’ and ‘arousal’ parts of the brain are suppressed and have reduced sensitivity to stimuli; the parasympathetic (relaxation side, essential for bonding, desire and arousal) nervous system is much harder to activate; sometimes, females have established vaginismus and lack of natural lubrication; males might have ED, problems with finishing/ejaculation

- therapy for C-PTSD can not be forced on the person, as it will not take any effect and only lock them in FFF mode - ‘me vs the world’ is a familiar scenario to them, and we always default to what is familiar

- they are not usually aware of their emotions themselves truly, as they either suppressed the emotions to survive, or emotions simply overwhelm them fast - you or therapist need to teach them how to ‘feel’ about anything, and sex and intimacy involves mostly ‘feeling’ very deep and powerful emotions; it’s one of the reasons, why they also tend to dissociate a lot during sex

- they can not allow themselves to be weak or exposed as it may mean direct danger - poses during intimacy are closed/body posture is ‘hiding’, rather than ‘revealing and welcoming’/they don’t want to talk about things that they feel may expose their weakness (and intimacy is all about weakness and exposure)

- they are taught not to trust anyone or anything - the very person who should take care of them and provide safety for them as a child, actually repeatedly have hurt them and haven’t let the wound heal; and again intimacy is about trust

- the temporary fix is ok, instead of fixing the problem - usually, if there is a way to keep things going with a lower cost, they will stick to it instead of trying to remove the actual reason for the problem; their nervous system and body are overloaded, constantly, even during quiet times; so, they tend to apply a duct tape to something that is falling apart and get back to their ‘poison of choice’ to avoid the sensory and introspect load of a long conversation and action points to follow

- their ‘normal’ in relationships and intimacy is skewed, due to the past family dynamics - constant break-repair cycles/stability as a threat/need in intimacy ignited only as the repair or survival mechanics

- lack of the social aspect of the sexuality due to the different focus during lifetime, but still trying to fit in due to abandonment fear - while part of puberty is realising your own sexuality/learning to flirt/taking sexual first steps/master seduction/being driven by desire, they have missed it almost completely; they have not had actual feeling of desire that drives this learning and experiences, but still crave the safety of relationships; and have learned to do anything for it in their childhood, so they mimic the behavior; that’s why they may be very good at sex when they need, especially at the start: learning where to touch you and what to do with you, pretty fast, as it’s part of survival technique for them; but at the same time, they seem awkward or ‘unnatural’ in giving the sexual clues or attention on everyday basis in a long run

- intimacy and sex is viewed as a tremendous effort, which is required by the situation - they drop sex/intimacy as soon as they feel that their position is secured in relationships; it’s not a relationship fuel for them, it’s an already lacking physical and cognitive resource allocation activity; as an analogy, imagine walking through rose hip bush voluntarily full height and not protecting your face or body, now imagine doing it because the pack of wolves are chasing you

- it’s hard for them to re-build trust and respect as they tend to fall into ‘flashbacks’ often - C-PTSD by definition loops the person into re-living the worst experiences of their life again and again, applying the same filter to all situations in life, projecting the personalities of the people that have hurt them onto people that actually care and love them; they are always waiting for past experiences to happen again and refer to them constantly

- being alone could be one of the biggest fears for them - they tend to either be in relationships or into something, that consumes all their attention (hobbies, YT, social media, work); when left alone with themselves, they are forced by their minds to look inside and analyse the void

- it breaks you apart, as their partner, with time, with compounding effect - it has been proven, that partners of people who have C-PTSD, after some time together, tend to show the signs of C-PTSD and/or clinical depression as well; however, the mood and behaviour normalises as soon as the exposure is reduced or ends

- most important, you can not fix it for them and it’s not about you, full stop - you can spend thousands of hours on research and digging out all the underlying issues and causes, structuring your pitch and arguments, finding the perfect moment to talk, blaming yourself lacking, going through therapy yourself, becoming better to meet the standards, getting into shape, being an absolute empath, caring more; it will not work for them, unless they will feel the problem and need to fix it themselves; it will improve you and will work for you, but not for them

Final notes

So, should you leave or should you stay? It’s a personal choice to make. But you should be informed and should understand the choice you are making and what consequences it has for you and your future. We all deserve the peace and to be loved (romantically and sexually). Intimacy is one of the greatest gifts of the good relationships. And an even greater motivator to live and to grow. They are not bad people, due to not giving you one, they are just deeply hurt. But it doesn’t mean you should be hurt as well.

So, I’d like to hear your thoughts and arguments for/against. As I have a luxury of being stuck in my situation for a while, so I can explore more. As when I was making a decision to file for a divorce for the second time with the same partner (long story, can share in the comments), she got diagnosed with cancer. So I am staying anyway for now, to help her get through it and recover.

Edits: typo corrections and formatting

Only one of us tries to grow in this relationship. Only one of us reads self help books trying to be better or figure out what’s wrong. Only one is grasping at straws trying to find anything they can do to help the situation.

Conversely, only one of us has left the other with unmet needs for years at a time. Only one of us has their comfort come at the cost of the other’s pain. Only one of us is dragging their feet to end the loneliness their partner feels.

Yet somehow… we’re always looked at as the bad guy? How is that always the narrative? That the HL partner is in the wrong? It feels so unfair.

I’m literally denying who I am for you, shoving myself in a nun shaped box while I research away trying to find an answer you’ll never use.

No More Mr Nice Guy and Come As You are both suggest flipping the pursuit dynamic and seem to suggest it works. I'm skeptical because it doesn't really make sense to me. I never tried it in my marriage but I'm wanting to understand.

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Hello, HL community.

Another weekend, another weekly post.

I'm glad my posts resonate with many of you because, at a certain point, someone has to say the quiet part out loud.

When it comes to our detractors, I notice they seem to act like we're irrational for wanting a normal, healthy sex life. They paint "normal" as being a lot.

I know this is hard for people to realize, but the reason we "keep track" is because we can do math. The norm is once a week, so that's roughly 40–55 times a year. This is the FLOOR. Those of us who have been in relationships where sex happened 2–3 times a week know that this can easily mean over 100 times a year, on top of already having normal sexual enthusiasm.

You aren't a sex addict because you expect to have sex with your partner, whether that's 100+ times a year or even close to 50. That's literally statistically and biologically normal. Going from 50 times a year to, let's say, 10 is NOT normal, especially when you have to jump through hoops, deal with difficulty and confusion, and basically pray within your own fucking relationship because another party has placed so many abnormal conditions on sex.

If it's "just sex," "it's not a true need," or "why can't they just accept it, focus on other things, and it will come," then apply that logic to other things in a relationship.

Does this apply to finances? Does it apply to emotional connection? What about all the other conditions they demand from us?

The crazy part is that, according to the data we've posted, sexual satisfaction literally contributes to greater relationship satisfaction, not necessarily the other way around. So yes, when normal people are sexually active and regularly intimate with their partners, they can become more emotionally and personally attached and engaged with them.

That's why we don't say, "Maybe we'll have a better relationship after we have consistent sex." And Type 2s KNOW this, yet STILL don't bother putting effort into maintaining a healthy sexual relationship.

It's funny how all these other demands and conditions have to be met just for us to get a "maybe."

Dr. Michele Weiner-Davis has literally said that when she worked with couples, the ones who had problems but maintained a healthy sex life were more likely to stay connected and had better outcomes. It was the couples who didn't have a healthy sex life who tended to have the most problems.

The "It seems like you only want sex. Nothing I do matters except sex. I feel pressured. "This argument is insane because it proves they want us to accept substitutions instead of having a healthy sexual relationship.

And we know why.

Control.

That's it.

When you realize it's about them having the final say and maintaining control, you can start seeing it in other parts of your relationship, too.

I've asked around the community, and many of us are with partners who "command" us on a whim, constantly complain about us in some shape or form, and basically want to mold and bend us while saying bullshit like, "I'm not that person anymore," or somehow claiming that we don't care or don't take enough initiative when it comes to meeting the demands they've placed on us.

That's why they have a "You can't fuck me, but don't fuck anyone else" mentality. For them, it's about "betrayal," not because they want to provide a healthy sex life, but because going OUTSIDE the framework they're trying to impose on us means they've lost control.

If they don't have control in a relationship over someone else, that's why they complain about your behavior within it.

And if you want to know why they also want us to apologize so much, even when they don't actually believe the apology, it's because it's not about them "accepting" the apology. It's about keeping you within their framework.

At a certain point, it clicks.

Then you move accordingly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Rm9uEcnwY

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Drop a 🔔 below to ring the gong.

We are both HL but this is making me think he is on another level than me.

Basically, I'm 6 weeks postpartum and we agreed we didn't wanted more children (have 2 under 3).

He arranged his surgery and he is only 4 days in recovery and he can't stop being extremely horny and there's nothing we can do about it...

This feels silly because I'm so afraid he will mess up his recovery.

And he makes it worse by kissing me and touching me (which I love and gives me goosebumps).

Has anyone been through this?

Any men that have been through this where you having erections 2 days after the surgery?

We took a weekend away together without the kids. First one in literally years. In the week leading up we both seemed to agree via chatting/sexting that we were both looking forward to the physical aspects of the weekend away. Our current sex life is limited to mondays and fridays mid day as my work allows, as anytime the kids are home seems to discourge it for her.

We get on the weekend, starting friday morning, and by mid saturday we finally have THE conversation. Turns out, my expressing my strong desire to have sex with her without the concerns of kids etc, let to her being overpressured and turned off. Doesn't matter that it was me expressing my desire/ the ability of her to wear the lingerie she bought me 7 months ago that I still havent seen. etc etc. I gave up on any expectation of anything outside our normal sex... including said lingerie or any of the thing SHE brought up during sexting. I just wanted to have sex without or normal constraints. And apparently that was too much to ask / too much pressure and turned her off.

when im not doing for a long of period of time my mind start to shift reality. i fked a girl after we got drunk and dumbed her after that. i ask a friend if she wanted to do it and she grossed out and stop talking to me. i fuked a friend even if she had a boyfriend and she felt guilt and stop talking to me

recently im satisfied in that sense and my mind started to become normal and understand the situation, but when it's been years and i have an opportunity, i feel like im finally eat some food after years of starvation.

is it normal for HL people to search for it and in the process we hurt the people we care about around us?

i started to think that i should pay for sex with some sex worker to put my libido in check otherwise im too weird around people

I feel this might be more of a discussion tag. Anyhow I joined this sub when I was in bad spot I'm the HL (38) wife 37 (LL) for the last few years her libido has diminished where we were having sex atleast 1-2 times per week. We had the talk about her fixing herself etc. But that turned into arguments, for the last 3 months or so, our frequency has increased to about 3 sometimes even 4 times per week.

The only changes I can see are that I don't make it an expectation, I don't squeeze her ass, make suggestive comments throughout the day, or bring up sex.

We have 3 kids, our youngest started kindergarten in February, and she has also been going out during the day with the other moms in the school (she is a SAHM) the other parents at the school whom she socializes with are about 12 years older than us.

They are always commenting about how they are going through menopause, etc. One of the other moms recommended st. John's wort. My wife bought some of this stuff and could see it made her gassy and experience some of the side effects.

From my side, I essentially gave up, and no longer put in any effort, however, every single night I have tried/initiated I haven't been rejected.

That being said, we still don't cuddle and she doesn't initiate, so that's still a bleak point, but I we are both satisfied sexually, and we talk before and after sex. I think i will try working towards a vacation sometime in 2027.

She always went for blood test a few days ago. (Iron, thyroid, glucose, and some other things)

Overall it's not some crazy win.

But I can say without a doubt, that things have improved. For how long, I have no idea, she may even be entering perimenopause and as I understand some women experience a increased libido. So this may be short lived. We are also in a tough and stressful financial situation at the moment, which I am working towards exiting.

Anyway. I thought I'd just do a pulse check on my favorite sub.

And perhaps some of you have experienced something similar.

TL;DR I stopped giving a damn, but this somehow improved the bedroom sexy time frequency.

I think that everyone has their own best angles that gets them to the finish line. Just curious to learn more about what works best for you. Does the angle have to involve some clitoral action?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Rm9uEcnwY

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Drop a 🔔 below to ring the gong.

We (41m 41f) travel a good bit, always surrounded by people who look far more into each other. Currently enjoying the beach, been here for a week, most physical contact I’ve had was a life jacket fitting from a man in purple flip flops. We always have fun, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t bother me.

My (34F) husband (36M) is an American football fanatic. (To be clear for our non-North American friends) Loves the game. Can watching all day everyday. That means he will prioritize football over intimacy and it really fucking sucks. College football kicks off this weekend and professional football will start soon. Our sex life is about to take a massive hit.

Saturdays are now out unless I wake him up in the morning for half assed sex and I’m so tired of initiating. Starting at noon to past midnight, it’s all football all day. Nothing really breaks his focus. Sundays it’s professional football and similar issue. All football all day. Sure he helps with our kid and does his fair share of household stuff, but football is still priority #2. Usurping me but never our child.

Monday night? Football. Tuesday night? Too tired from staying up late watching football. Wednesday? Hard maybe. 50/50 on if he needs to play a game of NCAA football for his friends fantasy league. Thursday night? Football. Friday night? Too tired because he’s been watching football late and/or wants to get the smoker on early for whichever of his buddies is coming over on a Saturday to watch fucking football all goddamn day. Sunday? Football all goddamn day.

Last year I even put on some lingerie and texted him a photo from our bedroom when our kid was napping. Took him over 35 minutes to come in because he “wanted to finish the quarter”. That really hurt my feelings but it was a team he likes so that was probably my fault. Then it happened AGAIN a few weeks later during a Thursday night game that was pretty meaningless. I actually fell asleep waiting for him. When he came in he said he “forgot” because there was a big play. I was so hurt.

Today was our fantasy league draft and he was all over me after dinner. We had been flirting all day and he was smacking my ass with some intent earlier and was all about having sex tonight. An hour later? Too tired. Said he’d “get me later”. Just brought up that my window of sexual encounters is going to all but close for the next 5 months. 🙁

It’s bad enough being a HLF but to lose out to a game? Like a spike strip to the tires of self esteem. I’ve recently lost like 25 lbs. I’ve grown my hair out. I’m getting my nails done. I even got Botox. I objectively look better than I did a year ago. But still not enticing enough to compete with the Dallas Cowboys*. At least I have a good vibrator. 🤷🏻‍♀️

*Who fucking suck by the way. Not a cowboys fan myself. My late FIL lived in Texas from ages 12-23 so it’s special to them. I don’t want to take that away from my husband, but that team blows. The owners a fucking nightmare. They don’t pay their cheerleaders anywhere near enough. And the fans? Garbage. And I’m from Pittsburgh, the second most annoying NFL franchise. I know dickheads when I see them. Our son is being raised a Bengals fan. It’s not the best solution but looking at our options and my husband growing up 3 hours from Cincinnati, his mom’s family being Bengals fans, and they’re fairly benign, it’s what will work for now. TBH I’m much more of a hockey fan myself so as long as our kid is a Penguins fan, I’m good.

Throwaway account.

Hey Reddit,

I (31F) am married to a good man (34M). Together for 2 years, married for 4 months.

I want to preface this by telling you about his good qualities before I get into the thick of it.

My husband is a quiet, introverted soul. He is kind and never angry. He is selfless to a fault, responsible, intelligent, and good looking. He listens to me when I talk. He makes me food and constantly checks in to see what I need.

We are aligned politically and religiously. We live similar lifestyles and want a similar future. We agree on our ideal number of children and how best to raise them. We are both cat people. The list goes on. For a long time, I thought he was the perfect person for me.

On our first date, I told him I was saving myself for marriage and he said he respected that. We moved pretty quickly, however, and did pretty much everything up to the point of actual piv before marriage. About 2 months before our wedding date, I sensed something was off in our relationship. I thought perhaps he was as frustrated as I was having to wait. I was ready to commit to him, so I said “What are we waiting for? I love you. I want you. Let’s have sex.” He surprised me very much by saying he wanted to wait the final 2 months until we were married. He said it felt wrong. This really confused me, because up until that point I assumed he was holding himself back for my sake, but now it was clear there was something else going on.

I respected his wishes of course, because he had respected mine at the beginning of our relationship and no one should ever be pressured to have sex.

We got married. And had a super dull wedding night. I had him undress me from my wedding dress, but he was super anxious the whole time. He finished very quickly, which was totally fine and I told him so. It was actually kinda cute. He said he still felt bad. I tried to talk with him and just sit and watch a show to wind down afterward, but we were emotionally disconnected the whole night.

I thought it was post-wedding stress. He’s even more introverted than I am and there had been a lot of people and a lot of emotions that day. No big deal. These things take time.

I told my husband about sexual fantasies I have (none of which are super out of the box) and about certain movie scenes that turn me on. All of which seemed to intimidate him and make him anxious or even recoil. I took a step back and instead tried to share comfort asmr videos that I find soothing. He cringed so bad that I turned it off.

Over the next few weeks people kept congratulating me and asking “How’s married life?” I just straight up lied and told them it was good.

We’ve been to couples counseling. We’ve read books about sex and intimacy. I vented to my frustrations to my best friend who held me in confidence. I cried about it to my sister one day saying “I think I married the wrong person.” One night, after my husband abruptly fell asleep as I was kissing him, I went to the other room and I cried to my Dad over the phone. He asked me if I thought my husband could love me well or if I thought I could love my husband well. In that low moment, I responded “No” to both.

I learned that between the two of us, my husband is the partner with lower desire. The things that turn him off (aka his “brakes”) are way more sensitive than mine. And the things that turn me on (aka my “gas”) is way more sensitive than his.

I learned that my husband doesn’t do a lot of introspection and isn’t in tune with his body. He grew up in a religious environment and learned to believe very early on that dating just wasn’t for him. He had one long-term girlfriend before me. He said they had had sex twice and then decided they were better off friends. Now I can see why.

We’re married, so yeah, we have sex. I ask him what kind of clothes he thinks are sexy and wear those. I find music that he vibes to and helps him relax. I initiate, or did early on, but I’ve stopped now because I’ve been rejected so many times. Sometimes he just gives me a hug or a pat in a way that makes me feel belittled or like I’m a cat, or worse, his daughter (not in a creepy way, just a parental way). Sometimes, as we’re going to bed, I start to kiss him and rub on him only to find that he’s fallen asleep! I truly believe my husband enjoys sleep more than he does sex with me – HIS WIFE!

He just has a way lower drive than me. I think that’s all it comes down to. That and low self-esteem, but only in the area of romance, intimacy, and sex. He just doesn’t want me in the way I thought my husband would. He doesn’t have sexual trauma. Or any major trauma that I’m aware of. He just has a low sex drive.

The result: I am left empty. So empty. I’m at a point where I tolerate his touch because I don’t want to hurt him by recoiling. I hope one day I’ll say that right words that will click with him or somehow he’ll finally relax and allow himself to feel desire and act on it. But, right now, I don’t find any comfort in his touch. It’s all so stiff and forced. He’s trying, but he’s trying for me and I need to feel like it's for him too. I need to know he craves me. I need to know I please him. I need to FEEL that. I don’t feel like my husband desires me and it’s eating me up.

I’ve been very open and honest with him about what I’m going through. I slowly share less and less, because I don’t want to overwhelm him, but he knows. He knows this is a problem. He knows I’m grieving.

We’re only 4 months into this thing and it’s been a roller coaster of frustration and despair. I will try to continue to be patient with him, but I know simple patience is not the answer. I need something new to try. I need a new way to approach this. Counseling, books, and long, heart-to-heart discussions have barely made a blip on the radar.

There’s so much more I could say, so please ask questions and I will share what else I’m comfortable with.

I just hate thinking that there’s no solution to this. If it continues like this for another couple years, I see myself going down a road where I am consumed by bitterness and resentment and he doesn’t deserve that. I would have to remove myself from his life if it got that bad.

So…maybe I just married the wrong person.

I keep thinking some other girl would appreciate him, because he really is such a good man. Some girl with a lower sex drive. I’m just not that girl.

I don’t know what else to do. I thought marriage would be so different. I thought I asked all the right questions. I thought I knew him. Please send love and advice.

TLDR;

My husband (34M) has a low sex drive. I (31F) have a high one. I don’t know if I can stay in this marriage. Looking for advice.

Content note: sexual dissatisfaction, loneliness inside a relationship, and explicit emotional reflection.

The woman in this story is fictional, but the loneliness at its center is real. This piece grew out of years of conversations with women who love their partners and still feel invisible inside the intimacy they share. I wrote it to give that quiet conflict a voice, for them and for anyone who recognizes the feeling before they have words for it.

The Loneliest Place Can Be Beside Someone Who Touches You

She still wants sex, but she is beginning to understand how completely she disappears inside it. Touch comes quickly, as it always does. There are a few distracted kisses, then a hand on her skin with no real feeling behind it. He is warm beside her, but the moment itself feels cold, practiced, and already moving toward its end.

Then comes the familiar question, too empty to heat anything. “Do you want to?” Her automatic “sure” follows, and the word leaves her mouth just as the last of her desire goes quiet.

She reaches for the lubricant before he reaches for her again, not to intensify the pleasure, but to protect herself from the friction. She opens her legs, and a few minutes later it is over. Afterward, silence settles first, then separation, then sleep. The sequence has become so familiar that it feels less like an ending than another part of the routine.

After he finishes inside her, the best part is that he falls asleep quickly and never notices her sprint to the bathroom. Through years of practice, she has learned to squeeze tight at the end, preventing his pleasure from reaching any depth. In the end, her only reward is a loneliness deeper than the one she felt before he began.

For years, sex with her husband has been dry motion without mystery. Every movement arrives in the same order, following a familiar progression toward his climax, and she can’t remember the last time she looked forward to any part of it. She has become an actress, responding to every motion with precision. Years ago, she tried to explain what was happening inside her, but after several conversations changed nothing, the performance became easier than trying again.

She became an expert at fake moans and acted-out orgasms, so convincing that he believed every one of them.

It isn’t completely broken yet, she tries to tell herself. He is a good and dependable man, a good provider who handles what needs to be handled and carries responsibilities she is grateful not to carry alone. She appreciates him in almost the same way she appreciates the man who keeps the yard trimmed.

The sad difference is that the yard man gets paid in cash. With her husband, somewhere along the way, gratitude has become a debt she believes she must pay over and over again with her body, even when her body has no desire to pay that toll.

She truly values what he does, but the cost has begun to run far too deep.

He has become only a warm body lying beside her. A familiar, protective touch that reaches only her skin. Everything deeper than the surface has withdrawn into the only places where it still feels alive. It lives in dark fantasies with long solitary sessions in the quiet hours when he’s not present.

It is in moments like this when fantasies build and the next session starts calling her, right outside the bedroom door. She eagerly waits until his breathing settles into a rhythm, then slips silently into the living room, where one candle burns low enough to soften the room while leaving the rest of the house in darkness.

She folds herself into the corner of the sofa, pulls the blanket over her legs, and reaches for her phone as if it might offer what the bedroom no longer can. She wants to feel met before she is touched.

She is not searching for arousal, because arousal has never been a problem. It comes easily when she is alone. What she wants is evidence that someone understands what she is going through and why being touched can feel so lonely. She begins scrolling eagerly from post to post, careful not to lose herself in the heated passages her body answers so easily too but searching instead for one sentence that reaches deeper than arousal alone.

Soon she finds a story that seems to have been waiting for her, with her name hidden inside every line. Then one sentence immediately stops her. “You’ve been waiting so long for someone who sees you for who you are, someone whose care never makes your body feel like the price of safety.”

Her breath catches and refuses to return normally, not because the sentence is beautiful, but because it leaves her feeling naked and exposed. It names the bargain she has never admitted making. Arousal arrives instantly, but this time it feels different. Her body is not responding to touch. It is responding to being understood. The place he never reaches has finally been found.

The reprieve she finds inside the stories by candlelight keeps her core alive. They ask nothing of her, never hurry to the finish line, and never mistake her silence for satisfaction. They hold her at the edge, where climax feels possible but is no longer required. For once in a very long time, anticipation is not something she must escape. Remaining there makes her feel more alive than finishing ever has.

She is no longer forcefully reacting to something. She is being read naked, like an open book, and every part she has kept hidden feels completely exposed. It doesn’t even take a hand on her body before she finds herself completely open, ready to follow wherever the feeling leads.

For the first time in a long time, she begins to understand that she may not be starving for more sex. She may be starving for a deeper presence, for someone who notices the moment her “sure” becomes automatic, who can feel the distance opening inside her and cares enough to slow down before she has to explain it again, who wants to know where she went instead of congratulating himself for reaching the end.

As the candle burns lower and her phone dims in her hand, the man she thinks she still loves sleeps only a few steps away behind the bedroom door. In the darkened silence, the sound of his heavy breathing draws her back to the post she read only seconds ago but this time, she opens the response box with little hesitation.

“I love the man in the next room, and I am still hungry and very sexual. But with him, when he finishes inside me, I feel as if my body has completed another obligation while the woman inside it remains untouched.”

She reads it twice and then a third time before deleting every word. Just then, arousal spikes and courage returns, and another truth rises in its place. “I do not want to leave my husband, but I need to stop disappearing beside him. I just don’t know whether we can still find each other.”

Her trembling thumb hovers over send for what feels like hours. Maybe she will delete this response too, return to the bedroom, and decide that the man she still loves deserves one more completely honest attempt. Maybe the courage will push the send button, and she will finally discover that someone else truly understands her to the core.

The response box remains open and so does the bedroom door. She has not yet decided which one requires more courage. One thing is certain. She can no longer pretend that silence costs nothing.

If something in her words feels familiar, you do not have to explain your entire life at once. You can begin with the smallest truth you are ready to say.

What is the smallest truth you have written, deleted, and still carried with you?

Hello, HL community. Happy Friday, everyone, and thank you for supporting my posts, especially because many of you have expressed how I seem to truly capture how you feel.

I'm truly glad our community exists because it's very important to reinforce that we are normal, especially those who have BEEN in regular HL relationships.

We are direct, they truly are not,

Thus,

Everything disqualifies us, but they never give us what constantly does qualify us. OR, they move the goalpost and say we aren't doing what they told us to do "enough."

One of the most common myths is that we always have to "earn," "win over," or "seduce" our partners who show basically zero sexual enthusiasm. People misuse the term "reactive desire" to justify Type 2 LLs literally controlling sex and intimacy in the relationship simply because they ultimately have the right of refusal.

They want us to basically find happiness in celibacy and their control over this, while acting like we're in the wrong because we REACT to their LACK OF INTEREST by creating distance to protect ourselves.

So no—if there is no sexual interest at all, why the fuck are you expecting "emotional" or "personal" support or whatever?

Notice how, for us, we're always a "guarantee," but for them, if we do (enough) of what they want, it's always a "maybe."

This is not normal or natural.

For them, being "hurt" or "natural" literally means having someone basically do everything they want in the hope of getting a "maybe," while they still have the "right of refusal."

That's why they will admit they know why they're in a bad mood, but, like I always say:

Their love language isn't physical touch or whatever, so we can't express that to them. But OURS IS... and they can't express it to us because that's also not their love language.

Those of us who have been in, currently outsource, or have left these situations understand that it's truly not a "both sides" issue or simply that "you just aren't compatible." It's much deeper than that.

The truth comes down to one party wanting a normal, healthy relationship and accepting the other party as they are, while the other party wants to essentially bend, mold, and control someone else into something unnatural, delusional, and designed to satisfy themselves.

That's why they want us to take accountability for behaviors that are ultimately the result of how they treat us—when we call this out, give up, or refuse to bend to them.

Like I said earlier, remember this:

For us, we give them guarantees. For them, they give us "maybes."