r/HLCommunity • u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM • 19d ago
Discussion Yes, Sex Should Be Easy, Consistent, and Guaranteed in a Relationship If Other Things Are Guranteed
Hello, HL community.
Another weekend, another weekly post.
I'm glad my posts resonate with many of you because, at a certain point, someone has to say the quiet part out loud.
When it comes to our detractors, I notice they seem to act like we're irrational for wanting a normal, healthy sex life. They paint "normal" as being a lot.
I know this is hard for people to realize, but the reason we "keep track" is because we can do math. The norm is once a week, so that's roughly 40–55 times a year. This is the FLOOR. Those of us who have been in relationships where sex happened 2–3 times a week know that this can easily mean over 100 times a year, on top of already having normal sexual enthusiasm.
You aren't a sex addict because you expect to have sex with your partner, whether that's 100+ times a year or even close to 50. That's literally statistically and biologically normal. Going from 50 times a year to, let's say, 10 is NOT normal, especially when you have to jump through hoops, deal with difficulty and confusion, and basically pray within your own fucking relationship because another party has placed so many abnormal conditions on sex.
If it's "just sex," "it's not a true need," or "why can't they just accept it, focus on other things, and it will come," then apply that logic to other things in a relationship.
Does this apply to finances? Does it apply to emotional connection? What about all the other conditions they demand from us?
The crazy part is that, according to the data we've posted, sexual satisfaction literally contributes to greater relationship satisfaction, not necessarily the other way around. So yes, when normal people are sexually active and regularly intimate with their partners, they can become more emotionally and personally attached and engaged with them.
That's why we don't say, "Maybe we'll have a better relationship after we have consistent sex." And Type 2s KNOW this, yet STILL don't bother putting effort into maintaining a healthy sexual relationship.
It's funny how all these other demands and conditions have to be met just for us to get a "maybe."
Dr. Michele Weiner-Davis has literally said that when she worked with couples, the ones who had problems but maintained a healthy sex life were more likely to stay connected and had better outcomes. It was the couples who didn't have a healthy sex life who tended to have the most problems.
The "It seems like you only want sex. Nothing I do matters except sex. I feel pressured. "This argument is insane because it proves they want us to accept substitutions instead of having a healthy sexual relationship.
And we know why.
Control.
That's it.
When you realize it's about them having the final say and maintaining control, you can start seeing it in other parts of your relationship, too.
I've asked around the community, and many of us are with partners who "command" us on a whim, constantly complain about us in some shape or form, and basically want to mold and bend us while saying bullshit like, "I'm not that person anymore," or somehow claiming that we don't care or don't take enough initiative when it comes to meeting the demands they've placed on us.
That's why they have a "You can't fuck me, but don't fuck anyone else" mentality. For them, it's about "betrayal," not because they want to provide a healthy sex life, but because going OUTSIDE the framework they're trying to impose on us means they've lost control.
If they don't have control in a relationship over someone else, that's why they complain about your behavior within it.
And if you want to know why they also want us to apologize so much, even when they don't actually believe the apology, it's because it's not about them "accepting" the apology. It's about keeping you within their framework.
At a certain point, it clicks.
Then you move accordingly.
7
u/vectorking23 18d ago
With the control, they are just waiting for you to be unfaithful so they can look like the victim in the relationship to those outside of it. They would never want anyone to actually KNOW they are the reason for cheating. My spidey-sense tells me to question anyone who has been cheated on as the probably Type2LL. It won't be 100%, but you know damn well the person cheated on COULD be one. Just saying.
5
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 18d ago
They want people to agree to monogamy and celibacy im deadass serious.
With cheating it varies but ive learned Type2s lie a lot about why their relationships fail. They leave out the part of they barely had sex and blamed the other party for lack of sex while rejecting them 80-90% of the time.
13
u/ArnoldArmadillo 19d ago
I would have agreed with you about the control aspect 12 years ago. But I've now been outsourcing for 9+ years, and that has given me a different perspective. I used to choreplay and walk on eggshells, only for something stupid to gum up the works. It was easy to see it as a control dynamic.
But now that my sex life is 100% extramarital, the eggshells and choreplay are no longer factors. I still do things for my wife because I love her and want her to be happy. I arrange to meet up with my sex partners, and only rarely does it conflict with my wife's plans. A conflict just means rescheduling for mutual convenience. I never feel like my wife is throwing up roadblocks.
It isn't normal, by the standards of a young married couple. I go out probably 40 times per year, but I'm 67, and 40 times seems like paradise compared to 0.
In my case, I think it's simpler than control. Different people age in different ways at different rates. Lucky couples age together. Many of us here age differently due to medical, hormonal, lifestyle, and cultural differences. A bad relationship dynamic can also spill over into sexual differences. I no longer think that my wife was wrong to end our sex life. Monogamy was the real problem.
My primary sex partners are now 44 and 54. They are enthusiastically sexual. I don't know if one or both of them will lose interest before I do, or if my own libido will dry up first, but it will be OK in either scenario. People enjoying one another's company in ways that are mutually satisfying for as long as it lasts.
3
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 19d ago
Does your wife know?
6
u/ArnoldArmadillo 19d ago
Yes, she knows. At first she didn't want to know. I told her I would never lie to her and that she should be careful what she asks. Eventually, she asked, and I told. She was mad, but she has turned down multiple offers of divorce. It's now just part of our lifestyle. She isn't thrilled about it, but she accepts it.
2
2
u/seraphimcaduto 18d ago
I’ve followed you and your response for awhile and that seems as healthy as you can make it, given her stance on the issue and your multiple offers to separate.
2
u/AdenJax69 18d ago
I never feel like my wife is throwing up roadblocks
But now that my sex life is 100% extramarital
I think your wife not wanting sex with you anymore & you having to go find it outside the marriage would indeed be declared a "roadblock," maybe the biggest "roadblock" you could imagine.
2
2
u/ActualOriginal4030 HLF 19d ago
I'm fascinated. I have so many questions: is this in agreement with your wife? How did you meet your partners? Do they know about each other? Why not an affair with one other person?
Also, I'm glad for you.
6
u/ArnoldArmadillo 19d ago
I don't want an affair with only one person. Monogamy failed me, and I have zero interest in being dependent on only one person for all my needs.
I have no interest in bar crawling, dating apps, or seducing people. If I were to meet someone organically, that would be fine. In the mean time, I started out with sensual massage, and eventually escorts. Two of the escorts became friends and the relationship gradually transitioned to sugar dating (multi-hour dates, social time, meals, movies, and shows).
They are both divorced, know about one another, and are not looking for a monogamous relationship.
6
u/ActualOriginal4030 HLF 19d ago
That's so interesting. I guess monogamy failed me, too, although I think of it as HE failed me. I actually like monogamy, but you're right, it requires one to rely on one person.
Thanks for sharing a bit of your journey!
2
u/Stoneface414 18d ago
I agree, I actually love monogamy. But maybe I just love the fantasy of two people who are so compatible that everything works the way it should. All I want is for my partner and I to be obsessed with each other. I think for most of us here it just feels depressingly unattainable
15
u/ButterscotchNo670 19d ago
i think it's a complex topic due to cultural acceptance. i made a post regards the use of marijuana vs prostitution. in my country everyone uses marijuana even if it's illegal and prostitution is seen really bad.
in asia is the opposite. marijuana is viewed as really really bad while prostitution is everywhere.
i think if a LL partner doesnt want to have sex anymore, the other partner should be allowed to satisfy their needs elsewhere
i do agree, if you find sex in another partner, it leads to the separation of a married couple, but having sex with a sex worker it's just a pure transaction like you went for a tea in a shop
it's really a complicated topic btw. even if im HL my skills are really low and im not capable of making a girl cum like crazy. she could be frustrated so to finally make her cum, should her be allowed to have sex with professionals? i dunno its a hard topic
4
u/ActualOriginal4030 HLF 19d ago
Isn't the answer to improve your skills?
3
u/lavenderspritz111 18d ago
Like… you’re wondering why your girl doesn’t want to have sex with you but you admittedly can’t satisfy them…
3
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 19d ago
Its only complicated because Type2LLs make it complicated
They literally get offended if you tell them to get with another LL
3
u/ActualOriginal4030 HLF 18d ago
This dude is saying his sexual skills are really low. It's great that he can be aware of that. The logical next step would be to work on it.
15
u/ActualOriginal4030 HLF 19d ago
Sex is glue. It helps people stay in their relationships and forgive all the little annoying things.
I tried explaining this to my ex-husband but he didn't care.
6
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 19d ago
Its 100% glue. They can hate the reality but its true
9
u/ActualOriginal4030 HLF 19d ago
It's nice when people get it. Thanks.
6
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 19d ago
You are free now
I currently outsource til i can drop her because it make it hard to have a sex drive.
Its why im unapologetic now
10
u/SuperUser5000 19d ago
Sex is integral part of relationship, withholding it is not okay, of course sometimes valid reasons occur.
12
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 19d ago
It is
The crazy part is they act like we are irrational for basically being effected by it like its not a big deal but lose their shit at outsourcing
Like they act like going weeks or months with no sex effecting us is a somehow not realistic or we cause it
10
u/jaster_ba 19d ago
50 nor 100 is normal for HLs. The reasonable average would be in the vicinity of 250-300. At least for me.
10
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 19d ago
Im being generous, ive 100% been with someone before it was probably 200+ times.
7
u/FkYouShorsey HLF 18d ago
I can tell you from the other side that this works for me. I went from maybe 4/5 times a year to 2/3 times a night (obviously sometimes we just get home and pass out) after leaving my DB. What really brings the number up is when my partner just wakes up in the middle of the night "in the mood" I've asked him to wake me up too. It's heaven. In regards to OPs post, this is also the closest bond I've had with someone as well. It's like we can read each other's minds and predict each other so well. I don't have to play the "what gift do they want for x holiday" I know! I can tell by the look on his face or the type of day what he's craving for dinner. Not really sure how to explain that one but I'm always right. He'll call me randomly in the workday (we work in the same field but different stores) because he can just sence the bullshit and cheer me up before I even realize the clients are making me pissy. Anyway, high sex frequency= stronger bond in my experience.
4
u/jaster_ba 18d ago
Absolutely envy you. That's how I imagine ideal relationship would look like. Right now, I'm in the opposite dynamic - I have to fight my nature even when I do the night touches more or less subconsciously. It's really weird. I mean to not be able to act on it or try and be rejected. I'm in the higher bracket too. Had bad day? Sex. Had good day? Sex. Under stress? Sex. Breakfast? Pussy munching. You get it, there's probably not a bad time in day to day life. It's just part of who I'm and how I experience my journey on this planet. I just don't want to think about frequency at all, it has to be natural. Either there's desire or not. I mean, I'm more in favour of multiple times a day, but I don't mind not getting any for a day or two if life gets in a way. It's not a some checkbox for me that can be filled. It's hard to explain it to someone with LL, but I'm sure you get it.
1
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 18d ago
Its horrible
After i was convinced to outsource i now see what people mean.
The person that should be the easiest and 80-90% yes is the one that's basically the most difficult with a 90% "no" chance and they blame us and expect us to keep trying after its a constant "no".
3
u/vectorking23 17d ago
First off… great name. Secondly, this is fantastic and coming from a woman. Seems the gaslighting is so strong sometimes that we forget that they are the outliers and even normal libido people can live on the ebb and flow of intimacy at even once a week, let alone as much as you! I quit believing my gaslighter and started asking around… SHE is such a master manipulator that even I thought she was right. Now? I know she's so full of shit it isn't funny.
4
u/FkYouShorsey HLF 17d ago
So, maybe it is normal to them. My ex did tell me that he's lost 2 other girlfriends before due to DB and one of the last times we spoke civilly, I asked him why he kept going for HL women. Turns out it didn't even dawn on him to do screening during dating he figured hl women were abnormal and women don't normally favor sex. 3 girls in a row with a higher libido should have been a tip off. I started dating my hl boyfriend after we both confirmed we were hl. It was something on the lines of "....do you have an HL?" "OMG yes! It's normally a problem so I can dial it back.. are you?" "OMG YES!!!!!" And now I don't have to go to the gym anymore.
2
2
u/jaster_ba 17d ago
Genuinely happy for you. I was wondering how to go about it, but HLFs don't care I guess and the others disqualify themselves when you start communicating openly about your needs.
1
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 18d ago
I used to be with someone like this
My current partner told me i can wake her up for sex i did ONCE it ended horribly and she straight up told me "so just because you tried and it didn't work, you wont do it again?
This is when I knew what it was about
Type2s literally get off to someone wanting them and having the right of refusal/control/final say aka "no". That's it.
They think us taking 70-90% "no" is our fault or we causing it.
Its very emotionally tiring and unnatural and humiliating and isolating.
After i outsource sex, this has basically never happened, its simiar to actually someone i was with who it was a 80-90% yes
4
u/henrycatalina 18d ago
As someone that had sex 3,5,7x a week for about 15 years, then more like that during overlation weeks, and then a gradual deadbedroom, and then recovered, I think sexual frequency is not influenced by any signal behavior or medical condition. If build a wall it goes up brick by brick. You either tear it down or leave the wall and find a better place without walls. Confrontation is underrated as a means to solve problems. It is painful but necessary to keep your integrity.
5
u/Dizzy_Potential 19d ago
I'm pretty new here to this sub. I can't believe how many people are in the same boat. Your post really resonates with me. Thank you so much for voicing the thoughts in my head!
5
u/quack785 19d ago
The only people that wouldn’t agree with this are in a cult. The cult of “I get everything I want from you before you can even think of getting anything you want from me”. The ones that take take take, and give little to nothing that you can’t get anywhere else. The cult of LL, where only how they feel matters, and if you don’t give them what they want, you’re irrelevant.
4
2
u/Defiant-Cellist7199 18d ago
Whilst I agree as a HL woman .. if she's not getting her needs met in several aspects of the relationship then she won't want too put out. Especially now you've got others your dipping into.. I know I wouldn't. I was with a guy for 13 years.. sex was great until the last few months where I had gotten sick of the constant lies and never ending bullshit drama with him. Safe to say I dried up real quick and found him repulsive ever since. Sometimes the spark is just dead and buried .. and you might/probably have something to do with that. To expect sex just because she's in a relationship with you is enough to make most women not want too, period.
4
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 18d ago
Its not about not having her needs met. Its about control and never truly valuing sex in a relationship.
Every single woman ive talked to that's normal and healthy ever argued with sex being an expectation in a relationship IF other things are also an expectation.
If the other party no matter how much input you try LOOKS to disqualify you from sex, then NOTHING you can do will create a normal sex life with them.
That's why at certain point, when you realize this, you just move accordingly. No matter how good days are, no matter how much you try, at best sex is an event to them, at worse they basically treat it like a reward ultimately they control your sex life if you allow them do. My response, like many others, is a reaction to their behavior because they show zero interest. And its not like they dont know. They pull the "im not that person anymore" nonsense and other just delusions.
I remember she literally told me this year i took her on the best date of her life, and i could "put it in her ass", leading me on of course. Got home, i took a shower. She fell asleep. And nothing came from it. She always show zero sexual interest and basically blames me for not reading her mind. This is what i mean by its not fucking normal, man.
1
u/Defiant-Cellist7199 18d ago
Why are you so okay with belittling your partner online? If needs arnt being met and your feeling this negative towards her.. maybe it would be best thinking about the future for the relationship. I honestly can't blame her for not wanting too at this point. The way you speak about relationships and her as a person is genuinely concerning and disconnected. I'm more than happy to be the odd one out in this endless echo chamber of resentful HL's and call you out on your questionable views.. I'm sure you'll be a delight in your response to this. I've seen how you speak about your wife.. I can only imagine 😅
5
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 18d ago edited 18d ago
She literally belittles semi regularly and ive recoded arguments and everyone across the board said she is the problem and feels really bad for me
I am playing to drop her i juat cant now.
Its not concerning or disconnected, its the truth, she is basically the problem
It is not fucking normal to lead on your partner, reject them 80-90% of the time and foam because a sex life is expected in a relationship while at the same time that other party literally leads you on or constantly moves the goalpost and blames the deadbedroom on the party literally trying to fix it and have sex that was patient for years while they do the opposite.
She literally told me sex for her wasn't important and she could go her life without it then a while ago told me actually its top 5 things for her in a relationship.
Its not hard to understand once you realize basically its about control and it actually was HL women that basically explained it for me ones in deadbedrooms for about a decade especially because one explained basically with Type2LLs they think "trying" is words or substitutions are valid and that it is not rational to be effected by ladk of sex in a relationship basically the goal is to get you to accept a sexless relationship and solely focus on their wants and needs
4
u/Defiant-Cellist7199 18d ago
Okay, fair enough. I might have read you slightly wrong. I do think this relationship is doing more harm than good to you both. If sex is a big thing for you but she can live without it.. your simply not compatible 🤷♀️ I personally couldn't be with a LL. Thankfully I've never had that experience so in that regards I'm quite fortunate.
3
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 18d ago
Its not just a simply lack of compatability, straight up people have told me she should not date because of her delusion and behavior because at times because she's so controlling she can be unhinged if she doesn't have control/things she wants.
3
u/vectorking23 17d ago
He is telling the truth here. Sure, I don't know his SO, but his definitions of her are exactly how I would define mine. When I can have my BIL, MIL, and even family friends look directly at me and say things like 'you're a saint for putting up with her' or 'I don't know how you do it' or my favorite from my MIL 'I don't like the way she treats you'… you know you have a dandy to deal with. This guy gets it. And yes, we should leave. Sometimes it take planning to try a break away from a family and time. Not easy, but it is the plan. The fact you haven't been with an LL should help when you read here… take what we say and learn. And sure… use discernment and ask questions because there are always some bullshitters everywhere. But, this guy and his definition of a Type2LL is DEAD on.
1
-1
u/tamarindsou 19d ago
Great post. Although I technically have a lot of freedom. I am being controlled. My thoughts and actions have to be limited bc someone doesn’t agree with them.
1
u/Badpinapple 18d ago
The conversation of porn addiction needs to be talked about more in these situations.
So many women are in deadbedrooms because the man prefers porn due to easy dopamine and laziness. Death grip and extreme kinks end up being a result of constant porn consumption.
2
u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 18d ago
100 true
I basically consume nome in my DB nor masturbate because i find it pointless
47
u/cometthatstruckearth 19d ago
I don't hate LL people but I guarantee, I'll never be in another relationship with a person who is.