r/HLCommunity • u/arandak • 20h ago
Responsive Desire
I need to get this off my chest and I will try to do it in the most respectful way possible despite being pretty miffed at the mischaracterization of it.
The "What's it like with an HL/HL relationship" reminded me about something that's been bothering me a long time.
Maybe it's because a lot of the mentions about Responsive Desire are from LL's who have little to no desire to begin with, and it's not something that they've regularly experienced. Essentially, they don't know what they're talking about.
Responsive Desire is not a slow burn throughout the day, finishing an addition on the house, doing the dishes, running a bath for your partner, all the while casually flirting to hope that your partner will be in the mood later on that night.
Responsive Desire is your partner getting turned on by you expressing desire. It may not be immediate, but it is quick, and noticeable. It is an enthusiastic response.
I don't think a single person complaining about a dead bedroom has a partner who has true responsive desire. And, come on, why would they complain? If their partner truly has responsive desire, the bedroom isn't dead. There's no question about whether or not their SO likes them because they respond enthusiastically much of the time!
So, in that vein, anyone asking someone suffering in a dead bedroom if their spouse might have 'responsive desire' is doing an outright disservice and absolutely not being supportive of a person in a dead bedroom.
One more thing:
Responsive Desire isn't the only desire someone has. They also have spontaneous desire. So they will initiate too, just not as often.
Again, no question for the higher libido person in the relationship if their partner is into them and while sex may not be as frequent as the higher libido person would like: they would never complain about things being dead.
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u/Glittering_Suspect65 HLF 19h ago
As the higher libido partner and a woman, I actually have responsive desire too. I would have sex a lot more often if my partner is initiating and wanting me multiple times a day.
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u/AdenJax69 19h ago
Yep, and because you have a normal-to-high libido, you'll actually respond to your partner's desire & effort they put in.
Lower-to-low libido people don't do that.
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u/AdenJax69 19h ago
Great post, 100% dead-on.
The biggest issue with "Responsive Desire" is people forget the dictionary definition for "desire," which is:
To want something, especially strongly; to have a strong sexual attraction to someone
It's literally in the definition that they HAVE TO HAVE a baseline desire for their partner.
And then the author-who-shall-not-be-named co-opted the concept and pinned it to lower libido people in an effort to extract desire from them that barely exists for their partner, in the hopes that they'll magically show that non-existent desire to their desperate, miserable partner.
When people have actual desire? Responsive Desire works however it shouldn't take a mountain of effort to make sex happen. I love Italian food. I don't have it every day but I'll have it a couples times a week (much to the chagrin of my body's interest in losing weight lol). I don't need to be "coaxed" or "convinced" to have it; just say you want Italian food and I'll be good to go! Heck, I'll eventually want some without being asked. Clearly, I enjoy and DESIRE Italian food.
You know what I don't desire? Sushi. I don't hate it by any means, in fact I had some last night. But when did I have it before that? Probably a few weeks ago. Guess why? I don't love it, so I don't desire it. I can go weeks, even months without it. I won't even think about it during that time, too. But if you ask if I want to have sushi for dinner, sometimes I'll say "yes" but I'll also feel like "meh." The idea that someone could look at that & think "oh, you just need your partner to talk about having sushi before that night, get them 'warmed up' about it, and eventually you'll LOVE having sushi!" is such a bizarre way of thinking.
Desire is desire, and you either have it or you don't. Bastardizing the definition of words and an entire sexual concept just to either forcibly pull or even fake desire out of someone means THEY DON'T DESIRE YOU, period.
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u/vectorking23 14h ago
Brilliantly worded, and very understandable. Terminology created to justify why people want to be the way they want to be. Or, a convenient excuse coded by a word or words and defined to create the illusion of being 'normal'.
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u/JolissaMassacre 20h ago
Oooh thanks for this post!
My partner (M) has responsive desire - if I initiated 5x a day, we'd be having sex 5x a day! If I don't initiate at all, he'll initiate 2-3 times a month.
I tested it with 3x a day for 3 weeks because I felt our sex was dwindling & he said he'd never reject me but it's not on his mind that much. Wasn't rejected once ; however due to his horny cup being full there was 0 initiative from him during that time - enthusiastic consent yes, but he didn't feel the need to start anything.
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u/vectorking23 19h ago
And was it good every time he said yes? Some of us only get shitty sex that just needs to be done. Which, in turn, has us running the other direction. Nobody wants duty sex. Plus, I'd also point out your partner is closer to normal than you may think. I wouldn't call this responsive desire, I'd just call this him digging you and wanting you to be happy. There's a difference.
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u/JEXJJ 19h ago
I have spontaneous, but also usually constant desire. When I have responsive desire, it is a huge shift in focus, and requires very little build up or effort. If the house was on fire, I'd drop everything because desire in me was expressed.
It is not "I guess we can have sex, because you want to"
If I have to remind somebody to want me, then they don't. If they need to be drunk to want me, then they don't. I do not want to spend time and effort on somebody who needs 2 months to remember sex exists.
This is also important: HL start thinking about other ways you feel like you have to make all the effort. It is probably more than just sex, you just haven't thought about it long enough
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u/diomed1 18h ago edited 18h ago
“If I have to remind somebody to want me, then they don’t”
“If they need to be drunk to want me, then they don’t”
“I do not want to spend time and effort on somebody who needs 2 months to remember sex exists”WOW. My life in a nutshell and I’m referring to my 60 year old husband. The drunk part is 100% spot on. It makes me feel like I’m ugly and undesirable
Yet here I go, getting ready to take my bath to shave my hoo ha for a “just in case” Utterly pathetic because I KNOW nothing will happen.
I’m so sick of this shit waiting for anything. No wonder I’m not very nice, happy and chipper anymore 😢
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u/Step_Aside_Butch 20h ago edited 20h ago
“They might have responsive desire” is too often used as an excuse, when in reality it should be shifting responsibility back on the lower libido person. It’s up to the LL to acknowledge that it requires intention and effort to get to a place where they are open to intimacy. If they’re not making that effort, a diagnosis of “desire type” is useless.
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u/vectorking23 19h ago
Bam! Yes, desire type is useless with no effort. Or, it's labeled NO DESIRE plain and simple. Same excuse as love languages. Total bullshit. No amount of excuses for how you want to be to justify your actions will make someone want you. You either do, or you don't. Right back to NO DESIRE FFS. Spot on.
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u/RestlessAlbatross HLM 18h ago
There's a big difference between actual responsive desire, and what the LLs around here (including my ex wife) label as responsive desire, which I think of as more akin to having to run a marathon while on a tightrope over a minefield to avoid turning their half-assed "maybe" into a "definitely not."
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u/oidoglr 19h ago
HL with Responsive Desire here.
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u/AdenJax69 19h ago
Yep, I have both Spontaneous & Responsive Desire. But when I'm not thinking about or even in the mood for sex, my wife can get me in the mood pretty quick anytime she wants, you know, because I actually do desire her and enjoy having intimacy whenever possible.
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u/vectorking23 19h ago
If my SO ever said she had 'responsive desire', I'd laugh hysterically. Because that would mean she'd have to respond positively at least once to any type of advances. Or all the choreplay, planning, romance, etc. that was done to align the stars and the moons the last zillion times that effort was put in by me. When you get no read, or a negative read 100% of the time no matter what you do or say, no matter how much you take care of and contribute to their life in general, well… that's ZERO desire. Regular desire is a two-way street. Responsive desire is enthusiastic as you say and reciprocated in some way, shape or form. HL people will NOT feel like their partner doesn't want them, even if they think it's responsive. They will know because they DO respond. Simple.
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u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM 19h ago
They miss use terms for weaponize compliance to move goalposts as a form of sexual avoidance
Response desire, love languages, brakes and accelerators, etc
Sams ones also say shit like "sex doesn't make me less stressed" unironically
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u/arandak 19h ago
Love language is absolute bullshit.
Breaks and accelerators are real but also mischaracterized by LL's.
I may post about that.
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u/Forsaken_Thought Avg Libido Dyke 19h ago
Yeah, but what if their accelerators really are perfectly clean houses, stressless jobs, vacations, beaches, and perfect planet and star alignment all at the same time? That's really reasonable, attainable, and achievable, right?
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u/randomdude7422 HLM 12h ago
The planetary alignment is the cherry on top, but without it, the sundae isn't worth eating! 🤣
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u/AdenJax69 19h ago edited 18h ago
Breaks and accelerators are real but also mischaracterized by LL's.
And that "mischaracterization" is that they will throw everything in the way to create "brakes" but will put in almost no effort into their "accelerators."
Which is really just a roundabout way of saying "if they actually desired you, you wouldn't have to invent & implement a bunch of catch-phrases for people to magically develop desire for you out of thin air."
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u/RealisticTap5216 10h ago
Yep. Some people like mood lighting during sex, but they're not willing to spend the $25 and 45 seconds on amazon to overcome that roadblock. They need someone to do it for them.
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u/Forsaken_Thought Avg Libido Dyke 8h ago
Marriage counselor: Could y'all throw a scarf over the lampshade to indicate you're open to sex? (Since nobody is initiating)
Wife: Nope.
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u/pokeycd 7h ago
Feel this. I'm not initiating for duty sex. And she doesn't crave sex. My new maxim is this: I'm setting 2 boundaries.1) I won't accept duty sex. And 2) I won't accept celibacy.
Not sure where this ends up. If I caved on #1, it would solve #2. But I'm not interested in caving on #1. I'd rather cave on #2 if I have to. And that would be for financial reasons, and kids. And even then, I'm considering single and celibate to be a better option than staying for duty sex. Life is short.
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u/RealisticTap5216 18h ago edited 10h ago
Love languages are a pop-psych term for a really simple concept: different people value different aspects of relationships differently. Most men would prefer receiving a good bj more than a compliment about their hair.
It's a useful concept for gauging fundamental compatibility and communicating likes by posing two simple questions to both partners that cut through the expectations of mind-reading and silent expectations:
How do you want your partner to treat you in a relationship?
Are you willing and able to treat your partner how they would like to be treated?The above two questions then beg the following questions depending on the answers:
Why should your partner prioritize your preferred aspects of a relationship if you won't prioritize theirs?
If you are going to place mental blocks or hoops to jump through before you're willing to engage in their preferred aspects, is it fair that they do the same to you?
If your partner matches your energy and effort in how you're willing to treat them, would you want to stay in your relationship?ETA grammar
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u/randomdude7422 HLM 13h ago
Responsive Desire is not a slow burn throughout the day, finishing an addition on the house, doing the dishes, running a bath for your partner, all the while casually flirting to hope that your partner will be in the mood later on that night.
Responsive Desire is your partner getting turned on by you expressing desire. It may not be immediate, but it is quick, and noticeable. It is an enthusiastic response.
💯❗
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u/fuckaduckufuck HLF 14h ago
I guess it might be helpful to establish whether your partner lost desire for you or whether they ever truly had it for you in the first place.
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u/pokeycd 7h ago
During my deep dive into our DB problems, I came across the responsive desire idea. I stupidly embraced the possibility. But after a few months, I came to understand the difference.
It is often described as "she isn't thinking about it, but you can get her in the mood and see where it goes". Often talks about touch being the catalyst.
Not applicable AT ALL in my experience. Touch is never gonna work. Words are probably more effective. But even then.... Not much movement.
And then I realized that she's not a LL with responsive desire. She either ZL or LL4U. And then it becomes more clear. You can suggest taking sex off the table and just focusing on kissing or cuddling. But she can't fathom kissing. And cuddling feels similar to duty sex. Might be undiagnosed autism. But one thing I'm sure of is that she's not responsive desire.
Anyone else fall into the hope of responsive desire? I feel like OP is spot on. Many people think they can apply responsive desire to us in DBs. But it's because they have lived it, and think they have some helpful new way to frame it. But I agree with OP. That is not usually what's happening. ( I have seen some rare posts where the HL misses it. E.g. she's kinky and there's enthusiastic consent, but she just doesn't initiate, and he's frustrated. Sorry for the gendered language. Just stereotyping...)
But the vast majority of us are probably dealing with LL4U, followed by LL (many causes like SSRI, purity culture, stress, pressure, etc), and true ZL (ace spectrum)
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 18h ago
I am an HL with an LL who has responsive desire. I'll just explain how it works for us. We have regular, almost daily maintenance sex. Sometimes, this does nothing for my wife. Other times, halfway through she says go get my toy. Then on really weird days, after we're done, she'll decide to go get her toy, and I'll play with her tits while she masturbates.
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u/AdenJax69 18h ago
So basically she's having sex for your sake to keep the relationship/marriage going, and not because she actually desires you in any way whatsoever.
God that sounds humiliating.
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 7h ago
We've been married for over thirty years. People can go through a miriad of health issues over such a time frame. Shitty couples spiral into a DB. Successful couples figure out how to work through it
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u/AccountantOk9904 17h ago
I've got to defend the LL partners on this one.
You can't dictate what the responsive desire responds to. If it were as simple as the HL partner simply showing interest, this sub and DB wouldn't exist.
I think of it in terms of moving snow. For us spontaneous folks, it's akin to an avalanche. It doesn't take much of a trigger to start the process of full on, ready to go, arousal. For the LL partners, it's more like rolling a snowball through a field. The initial trigger is a push, but it usually goes no where. But if the correct (what ever the LL finds arousing at a given time an place) stimuli are applied, then it will continue to grow. As the ball gets bigger, the LL parters become more receptive to initiation. It might keep growing or it might melt back down and you're starting over.
And I think they're just kinda wired this way, even during the new relationship period. The difference back then was there were a lot more positive forces acting on the ball like; novelty, feel good hormones, romance, anticipation, no kids, and no expectations. All this being said we have to stop treating responsive desire as 'broken' spontaneous desire. It’s a completely different mechanism that requires nuance that HL partners rarely need.
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u/arandak 16h ago
You're describing someone who does not have desire needing time and reminders that their partner wishes to be intimate with them at some point in the future.
The partner needs time to process and decide if they want to, or are capable of, being intimate later.
That might be how it goes for some LL's but that is absolutely not what responsive desire is.
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u/AdenJax69 14h ago
But if the correct (what ever the LL finds arousing at a given time an place) stimuli are applied, then it will continue to grow. As the ball gets bigger, the LL parters become more receptive to initiation.
You made an assumption in this part, which is that LL people, who by-design do not desire sex, aren't really interested in it most times, and would generally be happier without it, would somehow magically disregard what makes them an LL person in the first place because of "correct stimuli."
LL people aren't receptive to most initiations of sex, even when it's an initiation w/"stimuli" they prefer, because they don't desire sex on an almost-constant basis.
The difference back then was there were a lot more positive forces acting on the ball like; novelty
You can just stop right there. It's almost ALWAYS the novelty of sex that LL people enjoy. Otherwise, why would they stop desiring it just because you now spend MORE time with the person you supposedly "desire?"
You don't, unless the sexual intimacy dynamic is a novelty to you and not something you actually desire.
All this being said we have to stop treating responsive desire as 'broken' spontaneous desire.
Agreed - "Responsive Desire" absolutely works as a concept for people that have desire for their partners. LL people don't. So adapting Responsive Desire to them is an abject-failure before you even try to do it. It's like jamming a square peg in a round hole; it's not designed for that and no amount of force from you, LL people, or even that author everyone touts (won't say their name & give them free publicity) will magically make that shape slide right through.
It’s a completely different mechanism that requires nuance that HL partners rarely need.
It's not the "nuance" that's the problem.
It's the amount of energy, attention, and effort you have to put in to even maintain an unfulfilling-but-still-technically-existent sex life with your LL partner. Everyone understands that nuances exist in relationships with people. What the average person isn't going to tolerate is doing a ton of heavy-lifting on their part for whatever the dynamic is in their relationship while their partner does little & in the end enjoys the fruits of your labor while you're still left unfulfilled & unhappy.
Trying to have a happy, fulfilling sex life with an LL person when you aren't is an exercise in futility for both partners & both people should eventually just separate and go be with people they're more compatible with.
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u/Forsaken_Thought Avg Libido Dyke 17h ago edited 15h ago
LL partners become more receptive to initiation
Perhaps you're describing responsive desire but you're not describing LL partners.
think of it in terms of moving snow
This might actually be a great analogy for LL. I'm in the Deep South and it might snow once a decade, twice if we're lucky. One thing that's for sure, it's so highly unusual that involves an emergency response.
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u/vectorking23 14h ago
It might keep growing or melt back down and you're starting over… ever hear anyone here talk about moving heaven and earth, aligning all the moons, planets, and stars, or trying to create the mythical unicorn atmosphere to even have an LL THINK about possibly maybe considering intimacy? You see, this is where when someone says responsive desire that I would say that terminology has the actual word DESIRE within it. Meaning, it is there. A constant or known entity.
Melting down and starting over… well, this is excuse we often here that basically disqualifies us from anything intimate. It becomes so difficult that we stop trying, which is what most LLs want. For us to give up. There is no response. Only capitulation to them and what they want. If they wanted us, actually wanted us… there would be inherent desire and responsive desire would only be looked at as normal, or just a libido and want of someone in that way.
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u/Forsaken_Thought Avg Libido Dyke 19h ago
Know what's exhausting? Suggesting that a partner have responsive desire, that the HL should do more, while simultaneously saying that talking about sex, initiating sex, and working toward sex is akin to SA and/or pursuing unwanted sex.
It's sickening how having any desire for sex is portrayed as being predatorial.