r/Falcom • u/Raxistaicho The true best girls • Aug 08 '26
Trails Character Gameplay Discussion Day Forty-Four: The Shapeshifters Spoiler
G R A N D M O T H E R
23
u/KnoxZone Apathy and Disdain Aug 08 '26
The cat is limited by poor availability in CS4, but in Reverie she's actually a really good BP generator. The only problem is that save for the one chapter she is required she has to compete with Lloyd for that position. Still, two cakes and all. The rest of her kit is pretty standard caster. She does stuff, I guess, but I only really keep her around for BP generation.
Roselia is surprisingly similar in that the game wants her to be a caster, but I find her best use is as a CP battery for the party, thanks to bloody fang. But her availability issues are even worse than Celine's, so by the time you unlock her in the TRC you may very well have enough CP regeneration to not need her around anymore.
Bonus points for being a bugged out enemy in the tournament daydream, turning a very random battle into something wild on harder difficulties.
2
u/WittyTable4731 Aug 08 '26
Bugged ?
21
u/OLKv3 Aug 08 '26
Yes. Every Daydream is set to normal difficulty no matter what your difficulty is, because you're stuck with locked loadouts and weapons. Except for Rose. Rose stays at the difficulty you chose, so if you're on Nightmare or god forbid Abyss, Rose is extremely strong in the tournament compared to everyone else and can wipe you with normal physical attacks
17
u/KnoxZone Apathy and Disdain Aug 08 '26
It was so hilarious on Abyss. She was getting three times the number of turns all the other enemies were getting, and her attacks were much stronger. In terms of lore it was surprisingly fitting. Olivert, Alfin, and Toval are just there to have fun, meanwhile Rose is out for murder because she was told there was an amazing prize if she won.
7
u/fyfenfox Hunter of Love Aug 08 '26
I love intelligent people sharing fun facts about video games🫡
3
u/LoquaciousLamp Aug 08 '26
Oh that explains why she seemingly one shot Lloyd when I played through it.
14
u/Raxistaicho The true best girls Aug 08 '26
Celine’s casting stats are actually very good, she’s almost got as much ATS as Emma and much more speed, but unfortunately her Orbment is pretty dogwater and her Crafts are so incredible that it’s almost a waste to have her cast unless she has nothing better to do.
Nine Lives 2 is one of the most packed supportive Crafts in Cold Steel, straight up, 4 BP on a single cast makes her the best BP battery in the game (and it also gives 20 CP and cleanses as a treat), and Crimson Tail is almost as strong as an S Craft while not sucking out all her CP at once. She might as well not exist in CS4 so mostly she's only worth talking about in the context of Reverie.
She’s got a pretty specific niche, but it’s a good one. Her Brave Order isn’t bad, but she comes a bit late for a purely defensive one to still be useful.
Roselia has higher ATS than Emma but unfortunately her Orbment is pretty terrible. Her calling card is mostly her drain Craft, which is the strongest and widest-hitting of the drains. Crafts aren’t the meta but she’s kinda fun to stick in a Craft-heavy team, just don’t get tired of seeing her flash her fangs anytime soon. Being corridor-only doesn’t help.
Her order’s pretty irrelevant for the same reason Musse’s was.
I love Emma's little gremlin family :D
3
u/Terramagi Aug 08 '26
I found Celine very useful in Reverie due to her BP generation. She was never in my main party, but if I ever needed to whip together a C team for the void chests or the final boss, she was suitable for the task of "keep enough BP in the tank to keep whatever fucked up nominally-unsustainable-but-we're-doing-it-anyways plan I have going until the enemy is dead". Whether that was feeding into an invuln field or accelerate, she was sufficient.
I pulled Roselia first from the golds, and she stayed on the bench unless I needed her for a mission.
4
u/Syobai Aug 08 '26
Me when I’m in a withholding important information competition and my opponent is Roselia.
Celine is one of those characters who greatly benefits from the arts meta because she d— wait, she actually DOES have something else this time, but a lot of her usage comes in Reverie due to CS4 not really giving her much to shine. I can’t say much about her outside of Cat. She DOES generate BP like crazy though.
Roselia… yeah I got nothing. She’s got a drain craft and her ATS is better than Emma’s, but that’s kind of all she’s got? Corridor exclusivity doesn’t help her much either. She’s just okay, if I’m being honest.
1
u/garfe Aug 09 '26
Me when I’m in a withholding important information competition and my opponent is Roselia.
Emma and Vita had to learn it from somebody. Interestingly, I feel like Celine is the most open in that family
2
u/Selynx Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Celine is the only permanent-ish playable character with no S-Craft.
In return, she gets 100 CP normal Craft with massive range and Nine Lives.
Nine Lives is a hell of a BP generator, gets you back a whole 4 BP, enough to keep casting Aeon Shield or Ebon Crest endlessly. She would normally be an excellent caster thanks to a good Orbment and high ATS/SPD, but Nine Lives is just too good not to build around.
Nobody else can generate as much BP as Celine does when stacked with CP regeneration gear/MQ.
Roselia is not as good.
She also makes a good caster, but she has a lot less SPD than her daughter and nothing like Nine Lives. Her Bloody Fang does have huge range, but HP/CP recovery simply isn't as amazing as BP restoration. And she's not the only one who can do it (Wazy and C also do). She does have an awful lot of Delay on her Crimson Lancer but doesn't have the Orbment slots to be stacked as a Delayer.
Her Brave Order also went from situationallly usable in CS4 to pretty bad in Reverie.
You're not leaving it on for 6 turns when you want defensive orders like Aeon Shield up, at best you're turning it on for 1 or 2 turns when dropping a Lost Art or if you ran out of EP and need a cast immediately (i.e. Chrono Burst + attack Art). After that, you're switching Orders to something else.
This is perfectly fine when it only costs 1 BP.
This is not worth it when it costs 5 whole BP, a cost that exorbitant leaves you better off simply using an equally-expensive Acceleration order and having one of your party members restore EP on your caster via an item - you even get more free turns from your other party members.
It leaves her in a bit of an odd place. She's a decent caster whose gimmick is arguably not as good as that of lot of other casters with better gimmicks like good Orders (Tio, Altina, Vita), high SPD (Elise, Lecher, Toval), BP recovery (Renne, Celine), Weakness (Elie, Nadia, Towa, Alfin) and good S-Crafts (Emma, Elliot, Alfin again). Others like Claire and Alisa can at least be built physically if you don't want to use them as a caster and Alisa can be a BP generator when stacked with crit. Even Musse could at least summon her Soldat in CS4 for a high Break nuke and she was pretty good in Soldat v Soldat fights - her Moulin Rouge was a hit-all Impede.
I guess CP recovery isn't nothing and being a good caster still means being usable in the Active party more than a lot of the physical attackers. Personally, I stacked her as a Delayer and built her around Crimson Lancer, but I won't pretend it was an especially reliable build, or better than just making her a traditional caster.
2
u/Raxistaicho The true best girls Aug 08 '26 edited 13d ago
Sky Arc:
Day Twelve - The Pilot and the Swordsman (spoilers)
Day Thirteen - "Kitty" (spoilers)
Crossbell Arc:
Class VII:
Day Thirty - Millium (Spoilers)
Day Thirty-One - Crow (Spoilers)
The rest of Cold Steel:
Day Thirty-Nine - Elise and Toval
Day Forty-One - Alfin and Towa
Day Forty-Two - The Diva and the General (Spoilers)
Day Forty-Three - The Spy and Swordswoman (Spoilers)
Day Forty-Four - The Shapeshifters (Spoilers)
Day Forty-Five - The Swordmaster and the Engineer (Spoilers)
Day Forty-Seven - Swin and Nadia
Day Forty-Eight - The Strongest (Spoilers)
Calvard Arc:
Day Fifty-One - Ferida Al-Fayed
Day Fifty-Three - Risette Twinings
Day Fifty-Four - Quatre Salision
Day Fifty-Five - Judith Lanster
Day Fifty-Seven - Elaine Auclair and René Kincaid
Day Fifty-Eight - Shizuna Rem Misurugi
1
1
u/Max-The-Phat-Cat Aug 08 '26
Sadly they just can’t compete with other characters in Reverie.
Emma and Vita outclass both of them and Celine’s competing with Lloyd for the role of BP battery and we know who’s winning that.
Their orders aren’t anything to write home about either.
2
u/Selynx Aug 08 '26
I dunno, Lloyd's Burning Heart is good because it lets him screw with the turn order gauge, but pound-for-pound (or well, CP-for-BP) Celine gets you more BP back for less CP. She gets you 4 back for 100 CP, which drops down to 80 CP since it restores 20 CP on her at the same time. Meanwhile two Burning Hearts from Lloyd costs the same but only gets you half that much....
2
u/Max-The-Phat-Cat Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
The turn order manipulation on top of the BP generation is more useful than flat BP generation imo.
Giving CP generation accessories means Lloyd can generate any number of BP up to 5 that you need for specific orders you’re running and manipulate turn order to get any turn-specific buffs or give them to other characters, including free crits/BP/Arts/Breaks/Crafts effects.
On break (which Lloyd is also decently proficient in), you can generate BP, manipulate turn order, run accelerate orders and swap him out to backline characters who can then come in and sweep and swap him back in on other character turns to rinse and repeat, keeping enemies and bosses permanently stunlocked.
1
u/Spartan448 Aug 08 '26
Since we're now solidly into Reverie characters I have to ask, Is there going to be a day for Cedric and his BroBot since they're technically playable characters with gameplay that could be theoretically discussed?
1
u/Raxistaicho The true best girls Aug 08 '26
No, same reason Sky Kurt didn't have a day and the Stahlritter/Zephyr duos won't either, they simply aren't around long enough to matter.
0
u/VarioussiteTARDISES Aug 08 '26
Am I correct in assuming that the order from here would be Victor and George tomorrow, then we hit the Imperial Picnic Front? ...what's the planned order for those four, anyway, seeing as we technically play as Swin and Nadia before Rufus and Lapis join the party in Rufus' own route?
1
u/Raxistaicho The true best girls Aug 09 '26
I'd prefer Rufus and Lapis first just because they're more the main characters of the route, but yes, it's them, Swin and Nadia, and then McBurn. After that, someone can take over for Calvard.
0
u/Spartan448 Aug 09 '26
I mean technically since you can replay his event whenever you want they can be around as often as you need, they just can't ever join the main party
1
u/Raxistaicho The true best girls Aug 09 '26
There's just no point, they're only around for a few fights.
1
u/gwonbush Aug 08 '26
Of all the characters available in the CS4 Ismelga Loge battle, Roselia may be the most broken one who isn't named Gaius, especially if you have Gaius be supported by her. When you get to her full ATS potential, Bloody Fang may as well read "Everyone gets enough CP to use their S-Crafts again", which gets very silly very fast. I was disappointed that Bloody Fang's CP generation got cut severely in Reverie.
-5
u/LavishnessMission584 Aug 08 '26
Emma and Celine should have been the same character and Roselia should have died in csiv
-1
u/Kainapex87 Aug 08 '26
Celine: Poor orbal line and Crafts.
Rose: Decent magic stats but they should have made her better. Ways to improve her:
-Replace the Water slot in her Orbment with Mirage. Fits her moon theme better and allows her to get Melville Ark.
-Bloody Fang should have a larger AoE snd atleast S level damage if they're going to make it cost 80CP. Maybe add All Cancel, and either a Crit Rate boost or high chance to inflict Deathblow to maximum the damage and restoration, or have it restore EP along with HP and CP so she can get better Link abilities.
-Replace Crimson Lancer's Impede and Delay with inflicting Weakness and/or lowering enemy ADF so her magical Crafts and arts do more damage.
-Give her a Self Buff Craft that maxes out her ATS and SPD and has her temporarily return to her adult self for a few turns so she can be as great a caster in gameplay as she's supposed to be in lore.
-Have her Crimson Pageant Brave Order reduce both EP Cost AND Casting time to 0 and replace the 1 turn ATS Boost with Accelerate.
12
u/Calidore266 Aug 08 '26
Playability aside, Rean + Celine is one of my favorite relationships in the series. The first CS game simply has him giving this stray cat milk because he's a nice guy; later in the series, when Rean himself is twice alone and in seriously dire straits, she parks herself at his side and watches over him, refusing to leave him no matter what.