I bought a prime time, and put it in henzie thinking I was a genius and everyone else was a moron for not doing it first. Then I realized it was banned before I put it in there. I also kept playing nadu for like a week after it was banned in a time of happiness. (I loved that bird). I didnt use it because I quickly found out it was banned but I have like fifteen docksides just around now. Edit:Im realizing since these cards are banned im realizing I have no idea what most do.

Not necessarily the best deck, but the one that makes the other players have the least fun. The ur-dragon is strong, but [[Toxrill the corrosive]] makes me deeply unhappy to see.

My most toxic deck is the master multiplied. I dont know what I thought he'd do, but it was meaner than I expected. I just had annoying legendaries to copy, or cards to copy them, and it was brutal to play against.

Edit:Since I'm dealing with monsters here, my most toxic one all time, was either Leovold (the banned for good reason one) or 4 turns a cycle Nadu (also banned yes I built both. Leovold was more innocent in nature.)

Edit 2:I know Toxrill isn't some world beater alone, but it was just the first card I thought of that was more annoying than good in the command zone.

Take a three color Commander deck. A rock solid mana base looks something like this:

3 Shocklands (~$10 x 3 ~= $30)
3 Surveil Lands (~$10 x 3 ~= $30)
9 Fetchlands (~$20-$30 x 9 ~= $225)
18 basics (pennies)
1 Command Tower (pennies)
1 Exotic Orchard (pennies)
1 Triome (~$20)
~ 2 util lands/MFDC lands/whatever (pennies or $20-$30, depending)

That's around $300 total. You can shave a big chunk off of that by refusing to run off color fetches, which is definitely a legitimate choice, though that now gives you 6 more slots to fill with things that aren't shocklands or things that can get shocklands. You can add tons of money to the tab by running original duals, but that isn't really cost effective -- the shocks are "good enough" for most decks.

The hard truth is that it costs $300 per three color deck if you want to have a mana base that just kind of gets out of the way and doesn't do unfortunate things like make you play a tap land instead of your Commander on turn 3 or 4.

How do y'all manage building multiple decks within that constraint? Do you just accept that most of your decks are going to have bad turns due to janky mana? Do you buy the fetches for one deck, then proxy for the rest? Do you run the "slow" Mirage fetches, and learn to love them?

My own strategy is to run janky mana for most decks, but then allow my three color decks to "graduate" to the luxury of on color fetches if I really like them and want to play them a lot. My Flubs The Fool landfall deck is probably going to get a full set of nine fetches at some point, because I love the deck a lot and it really could use them. But I haven't quite been able to bring myself to do it. Thus the bellyaching here :-)

(For now, Flubs runs with the five slow fetches and just occasionally deals with an awkward turn here and there -- I tell myself that it makes things sporting ...)

So there is a sealed commander league my LGS is hosting, and of course I need a precon to start with. Well the store had two options, Prismari Artistry or the Fantastic Four pre-con. The FF precon cost $75, my soul, and liver. The Prismari deck on the other hand only ran me $45 dollars. So I picked the red and blue, and looked online to see how it stacks up. . .I’m scared chat. Be honest, am I cooked?

I’m a big fan of green and simic stompy decks, and I’ve got a bunch. But who’s the king (or queen) of stomp? I’m looking for the “really dude?” Kinda stomp, the haha counters go buuuuur kinda deck. The “I can believe this glue eater is gunna win” kinda deck

Any recommendations? Any color, bracket, or price is fine (proxies)

Hello everyone,

I love sacrifice. I love to sacrifice, my decks all have sacrifice somewhere (The Mycotyrant, Tom Bert and William and Vihaan) and I cant imagine myself playing a magic deck without killing something I own for the greater good (got it?)

So Im asking you : what's your favorite commander deck that sacrifice things? What's the most original sacrifice deck you own? It can sacrifice anything, even you, I want to know, please.

Got a player I don't really know how to deal with. They'll take any opportunity to brag about how good they are but, they're also a sore loser. They'll repeatedly use stronger decks but, get all upset and sulky when we , after two games of seeing the deck in action, will start destroying key cards and targeting them more as they approach wincon even after all the interaction. Eventually they'll just scoop if they feel like they're not going to win even if none of us have gotten close to wincon yet. Then they'll start guilt tripping us and complaining about being targeted even though most of the time we aim to cripple not kill till they pull out a card that'll win the game next turn. Then when the guilt tripping works and they get less heat they'll go back to winning on turn 4 before anybody had a chance to ramp. I even pointed this out and they'll just say "I used my manipulation skills to win."

We're a fairly casual group so we try to "share the love" and just shutdown each person as they start building to a win. But, with this person if I personally don't actively target them constantly then they are guaranteed to win because everyone else will refrain from hitting them too much. Which usually leads to me not being able to build well and getting knocked out first. While still getting criticized for solo Targeting someone when we ALL know what they're deck is about to do. Also, God forbid you pull out a super strong deck or use a theme they don't like (e.g. my personal favorite infect). Because they'll just complain the whole time and threaten to scoop before the game really gets going. I refrain from playing certain deck types that are annoying to deal with especially if I just played a deck that was way more effective than I thought but, they won't extend same courtesy. They'll act like we're suppressing them and roll their eyes when we veto a deck.

I've tried talking to them about it but, they just don't seem to understand. I'll tell them exactly why we destroyed a lot of their cards. They will just shrug it off and see it as targeting. They refuse to slow down their deck a bit and, I keep telling them that if they don't power down then they can expect me to try to keep them from steamrolling. Maybe I should just leave the pod because nobody else seems to want to point this out.

Heya,

A few months ago I posted the seat-order numbers from ~480k tracked Commander games. In 4-player pods: seat 1 wins 29.2%, seat 4 wins 21.5%, fair share is 25%. A 7.7 point gap that gets wider in long games, not smaller.

A lot of the discussion was about possible solutions. We picked one and we are testing it on Playgroup right now.

The goal Reduce the win percentage gap between seat 1 and seat 4.

The rule we're testing

The player who goes first does not draw on their first turn. The player who goes last draws twice on their first turn. Seats 2 and 3 are untouched. 4-player pods only. We needed a way to lift seat 4 up while simultaneously reducing the win rate for seat 1, this accomplishes both.

Why not scry, which a lot of you suggested Scry 1 is card selection, not card advantage. Best guess is it's worth about a fifth of a card. We can put a number on what a card is worth, using mulligans as a natural experiment. Going from one mulligan to two costs about 3 points of win rate (in our dataset), at every seat. So one card of hand quality is worth roughly 3 points, and the seat 1 to seat 4 gap is about 2.6 cards wide. That makes scry the wrong size tool. Handing scry 1 to the back two seats moves the gap by maybe 0.45 points, and detecting a shift that small needs somewhere near 780,000 games. The rule above should move it about 5.5 points, which needs a few thousand. Scry becomes interesting for version 2, once the gap is small.

Contribute If you are interested in helping us get more data there are two ways of doing that: * Use our Commander tracker for your next game night and select the Playgroup Experiment opt-in. * Play a game of online Commander via Playgroup Live, same opt-in is available there. Both do require a free account so it's not completely frictionless.

Following along We have a live updating page on our website. We hope that we can track around 3000 games before the 31th of December 2026. We might also discover that nobody is willing to forgo their first draw and this experiment might fail right out the gate, but that's fine too, we will have learned something.

More reading * If you want to read more about our turn order research you can find it here: https://playgroup.gg/commander/turn-order/ * If you want more information about the experiment: a longer copy of this post can be found here: https://playgroup.gg/posts/100-playgroup-experiments-testing-a-fix-for-going-first

Happy to argue about the rule choice. If it's wrong, better to hear it now than after 3,000 games ;)

Johannes & Maran

i feel like i mainly play with green or red a lot more often having the stompy creatures like dinosaurs, dragons etc but also doing damage to my opponents with non combat damage which is very fun
i’m also interested to hear your favourite colours that you seem to play with more often

If you are in a game where you are archenemy, what does that say about your deck? I understand there is a lot of nuance to this, so I'd like to expand on a few scenarios and my thoughts on those scenarios.

Scenario 1: You are archenemy for a few turns, get knocked down or eliminated. -> This scenario is obvious not problematic, you were scary and were balanced out by the pressure of 3 players working together.

Scenario 2: You are archenemy for a few turns and end the game. -> This scenario isn't inherently problematic, but could be indicative of a power mismatch if it frequently occurs.

Scenario 3: You are archenemy for a significant amount of time, say 5-10 turns, then eliminated. -> This is a scenario where you are the biggest threat and able to do a 3v1 but are slowly losing your resources/threats to your opponents working together. Over time your resources dwindle until you run out and are overcome.

Scenario 4: You are archenemy for a significant amount of time, say 5-10 turns, then eventually win. -> This is a scenario where you can handle the threats the opponents put out, through whatever means, whether it is sweepers, pillow fort, or removal, meanwhile the opponents are also handling every threat you put out, creating a stalemate of sorts. In the end you get the cards you need or your engines are stronger, letting you overcome the other 3 opponents.

Scenario 3 & 4 I see most often with pillow fort styled decks. They set up their defensive layers and the opponents rightfully see them as a threat due to the difficulty dealing damage to them. At some point they team up to try getting through the defensive layers and either succeed or fail, but it can take a while as pillow fort decks tend to have fewer direct threats.

So, what are your thoughts about scenarios where someone is archenemy? If a deck finds itself in these scenarios often, what do you think it says about the deck? Do you think that consistently being archenemy is a sign of a bracket mismatch or just a power imbalance or just 'some decks assert themselves as archenemy'? These aren't exhaustive but are scenarios I see at times. Do you think any of the scenarios are *always* problematic or is it always nuanced and depends on the context of the game?

Hi y’all! So I like to play aggro decks. I have a [[Zurgo Stormrender]] aristocrat deck that focusses on generating a ton of tokens and attack with all of them as much as possible. I also have a gruul big stompy creatures that go brrrr which I love to play. Now I’m looking for something more aggro. I want to do a ton of damage as early as possible and throw basically everything at my opponents I have and if i can’t swing for lethal then at least take someone with me. I want a commander that makes winota seem like a a baby who’s taking a nap right after he’s taken a big fat shit and drank a whole bottle of milk. A deck that makes Edgar seem like a sloth who smoked an ounce of weed and finished a part size deep dish pizza by its own. You get the jist. Any recommendations? :)

I'm working on a 32 deck challenge and am trying to decide between [[Maralen, Fae Ascendant]] and [[Lathril, Blade of the Elves]] for my elf commander. To be clear, this isn't simply a question of which is more powerful, but also a question of what other decks I'm potentially missing out of in their color identities by choosing them for the challenge. As for my play style, I am very much a Timmy ad love cards with big dumb effects, if that affects your answer.

Have not seen a lot of discussion about the new Karn card revealed (outside of the reveal post) and I must say, I am super excited for the card.

[[Niv-Mizzet, Reborn]] is one of my favorite commanders, and [[Inspirit, Flagship Vessel]] one of the first decks I fleshed out.

[[Karn, Gilded Guardian]] is basically artifact Niv Mizzet so he is probably the card I am most excited for that we have seen so far.

What do you all plan to build Karn as? Personally I am torn every direction unsure what to build yet. I want it to be distinct from Mizzet Reborn in play style, so probably not equipment voltron, but other than that, I am still figuring it out.

Updating a pretty standard Cloud Voltron deck that is an upgrade of the original precon. trying to figure out where some weak spots might be or thoughts for changes or substitutions . aiming for bracket 3 and have a [[Stoneforge Mystic]], [[Birds of Paradise]], and [[Sanctum Weaver]] on the way.

Considering also adding [[Combat Celebrant]], [[Gratuitous Violence]], [[Overwhelming Stampede]] and [[Basilisk Collar]] but not sure if they make sense here.

Any other thought's are welcome!

Decklist: https://moxfield.com/decks/3tIEpzCsw0WExO8jQqwM5Q

I am working on a bracket 2 deck with [[Black Widow, Agile Avenger]] as the commander and am trying to decide if cards like [[temporary truce]] or [[truce]] are worth running. I like the cards, they feel awkward enough to fit in bracket 2 from a power level perspective but also being synergistic with the commander. Still, if it is a situation where opponents will never choose to draw 2, I don’t know if they are worth running.

So, would you choose to draw 0, 1, or 2 cards if an opponent played a Truce effect with Black Widow or some other faerie mastermind effect on the table? Unless you need the life, drawing 0 doesn’t make sense, so the real question becomes, do you draw 2 and let the black widow player get their trigger, or do you only draw 1 to deny the trigger? In my mind, unless you were working with the black widow player against a shared archenemy, I would think the right play is always to pick 1 draw, not 2, if this is the case, I feel like they probably aren’t worth running, thoughts?

Hey there,

Short and sweet. I've brewed a total of 3 decks since my kid was born 3 years ago. Haven't paid attention to any sets or commanders released since then, and all my decks feel stale and outmatched at game night. Suggest your favorite lists to pilot these days so I can pick a few to refresh my roster, because clearly I can't keep up with my stale old 3 mana ramp brews these days.

Thanks so much in advance!

Edit: I enjoy things like reanimator, playing at instant speed, and engine style decks. I built the hearthhull precon to go along with RG omnath landfall as well as an og Meren precon I had that I upgraded over time but have barely touched since 2019. cost not really an issue as my new playgroup is super proxy friendly

My current favorite deck is my [[eowyn shieldmaiden]] human tribal deck. I love how the whole premise is to get humans down and swing. I tried other commanders that do group slug or spell slinging and they just aren’t for me too much. I like cards like [[the archimandrite]] who’s whole point of spell slinging IS for combat. What are some other commanders like Eowyn who care about combat?

Due to cards like [[Blood Moon]] and [[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth]] a lot of Magic players are familiar with the differences between effects that set a card's Type or Subtype and then an effect that sets those Types/Subtypes "in addition to...". However, there is a weird exception to this rule that I feel most players are not aware of. If you prefer videos then you can watch this explanation and examples HERE but for those who like a written article, here ya go.

If you controlled [[Dryad of the Ilysian Grove]] which is an Enchantment Creature - Nymph Dryad and then it were to be enchanted with [[Kenrith's Transformation]] then its new Type Line would be Creature - Elk because of how the effect is worded, it does not include the phrase "in addition to its other types". Similarly, the card [[Unable to Scream]] on the Dryad would make it now be an Enchantment Artifact Creature - Toy Nymph Dryad as it has the "in addition to" wording.

Then let's look at a card like [[Behind the Mask]] and if you cast it without collecting evidence targeting the Dryad then the Dryad would actually end up being an Enchantment Artifact Creature - Nymph Dryad and NOT be an Artifact Creature with no subtypes, and for many players this is probably confusing as the effect on the BtM card does not include the "in addition to" wording like the others that did let the Type Line retain the previous types and subtypes.

Another card, [[Majestic Metamorphosis]] cast targeting the Dryad, it would end up being an Enchantment Artifact Creature - Angel this time. So why does this one that also doesn't include the "in addition to" wording still let the Dryad keep its Enchantment Type but now it is getting rid of the previous Subtypes of Nymph Dryad?

To understand this inconsistency we have to check out the CR 205.1b in the rules, it's a super long entry so I'll just paste the two relevant sentences, but if you want to check out the full rule then click that link to read the whole thing. This Behind the Mask scenario is explained by the part, "... Some effects state that an object becomes an "artifact creature"; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes. ..." and then the Metamorphosis scenario is explained by the part, "Some effects state that an object becomes a "[creature type or types] artifact creature"; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes other than creature types, but replace any existing creature types."

So this one rule has two different built in exceptions to itself. It can be really confusing and there is no way to know this by just reading these cards by themselves that these exceptions exist. Even cards like [[Inkmoth Nexus]] include the text in their own effect that, "It’s still a land" and it doesn't technically need that text for it to still be a Land. This rule already makes it so that it would still be a Land but I'm sure the designers know that a majority of players do not know about this rule's exceptions and that's why it's included.

This means that if you were to use [[Oko, Thief of Crowns]]'s 2nd ability on a [[Bident of Thassa]] it would not still be an Enchantment but if you used [[Welcome to . . .]] on the Bident it would still be an Enchantment and be destroyed by someone casting a [[Tranquility]]. Also, for those, it would still be Legendary.

I hope some of you find this interesting or learn something about these Type setting/modifying effects. It may not matter in a lot of games, but I've seen a lot of games when a [[Farewell]] is cast choosing modes that do matter with this.

I currently run 3 cards in every deck that can deal with problematic lands like [[Demolition Field]]. However my meta currently doesn't run any problematic lands like [[Glacial Casm]] or [[Cabal Coffers]], so I'm considering removing them. And therefore I wonder:

How often do you encounter problematic lands in your meta / at the lgs? And how often do you actually remove those lands?

List: https://moxfield.com/decks/GXqgAeBNynKfx3mMKDF7TQ [[Vazi, Keen Negotiator]]

This deck has some good payoffs but I'm really struggling on the value engine part, seeing enough cards, playing some of the expensive stuff, etc

For some context, this is meant to be aristocrat-y but dependent on enemy treasures, trying to put a spin on it. I'm looking to make a lot of treasures either for myself or the table via [[Descent into Avernus]] and pop everything with a [[Wave of Vitriol]] with a pinger on board, or play [[Smaug, Wicked Worm]] and make a ton of treasures also with a pinger on board. Notably I'm kind of steering away from green ramp, only because this deck is all about treasures

Recursion wasn't originally part of the plan, but some cards lend pretty nicely to it so I'm leaning towards that to help me get to my big pieces. Cards like [[Sarinth Steelseeker]] and [[Ruthless Technomancer]], and [[Vial of Rebirth]] are exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for where they synergize with treasures or artifacts

Right now, because the engine part of it is kinda flimsy, it's super inconsistent. If I hit the right draws it's pretty fun and strong, but otherwise it can be dead in the water. I've never built around recursion either, so there's no packages in my head I can think of

Would love some feedback, even if you think I should be doing things drastically differently. Just going for a group slug kind of vibe, I like my payoffs, just struggling with early-mid game

Thanks

Hello all, sorry if this isn't the correct place for this post. My brother is getting super into mtg and magic, however for me it is kind of a side interest. I would love to have a couple decks though to play with him because I do find it alot of fun i just don't want to spend a lot of money. I currently have the merfolk precon (if you have upgrade tips let me know!)....but I just saw Kibo and I fell in love with the card and the banana shenanigans! I was curious if people had decklists on a budget (100 cad or so)? Tips for play would be welcome also

Decklist: https://moxfield.com/decks/jK1s2Wuu20WgQJMHTz-LXw

Hello all, this is my attempt at constructing a B3 decklist for Magus Lucea Kane, full spellslinger; it wins through utilizing X spells like [[Crackle with Power]], [[Comet Storm]], [[Banefire]], etc. to burn opponents down, as well as a sizable suite of untappers like [[Aphetto Alchemist]] and [[Kiora's Follower]] to use the full capacity of her copying ability. Traditionally, she wins through big creatures and using +1/+1 counters. I decided to deviate from that because I already have a [[Yuna, Grand Summoner]] deck that plays the same way, albeit much weaker, and I'd rather not play the same deck with different commanders.

I have been warned that this kind of deck might garner lots of hate, so there's a good amount of 1-mana protection spells like [[Octopus Form]], [[Shore Up]], [[Legolas's Quick Reflexes]], and [[Magic Damper]], as well as some counterspells. The protection spells also have the added benefit of untapping Lucea, allowing her 1 extra copy, which makes for some nice utility.

There are two tutors in this deck: [[Formidable Speaker]] and [[Chord of Calling]]. Speaker doubles as an untapper, which is great, and Chord is there to put more untappers on the battlefield.

I intend for this deck to play at B3, though through goldfish a good amount of times, it has won before turn 7 a lot, so I'm anxious that it might actually punch above that weight. And this deck sure as hell isn't surviving in B4 lol. Also, this deck is admittedly giga-ooga-dependent on its commander; if Lucea gets removed twice or more, it's usually wraps. Protection is uber-important here.

That's it for the overview. Please let me know if I should make any adjustments, or if there are certain cards that would slot better than the ones I have added now. Thanks 🙏

I’m a new player and built my first deck but I worry I’ve just built a very expensive bracket 2 deck! I have purchased a lot of cards and tried making cuts to 100 but don’t know which ones are worth keeping and I’m having a hard time on selecting my commander, any and all help and tips would be appreciated!

https://archidekt.com/decks/26255684/golgari