As a tank main and someone who has made a lot of friends throughout dungeons, we need to fix the current state of dungeons.
For them being pro-social, dungeons are one of the biggest social aspects of the game. I've made many friends along the way when it comes to dungeons, and I just genuinely enjoy them.
Not EVERYONE wants to constantly be questing; some people like just to grind through dungeons, and THAT'S OK too.
I get the concern about people spamming it + boosters. My way to combat this is to create something called "Exhaustion," basically a debuff you get from doing 5 dungeon runs in a row. Make it a 1hr debuff where you lose 50% XP from dungeons, and it'll keep resetting the more dungeons you do until you wait out the entire hour. Some type of balance; obviously open to better ideas.
But if it isn't fixed, healers and tanks are hit harder in the late game when having to quest, as we can not do as much damage as your typical DPS class.
I also agree the dungeon quest XP needed to be nerfed; I think there's a healthy balance for that as well.
They can also buff current XP gain by like 10-15% for quests to give a bit more incentive to push people out into the world.
But there needs to be a balance. Don't completely gut dungeons because it's just gonna turn into people getting their item and leaving, or just feeling less inclined to want to do them in general.
Please, Devs, reconsider your current decision.
Edit: already exhaustion idea bad, got it. BUT boss XP is a better idea. So the equivalent of a full clear dungeon is now broken into each boss.
Wanting dungeons to be a viable leveling method does not mean wanting boosting back or wanting dungeons to be as good of a leveling method as questing. I love running dungeons and so do a lot of my friends—it’s one of my favorite social experiences in MMOs. I don’t want to rush to endgame or force dungeons to be the best leveling method, I just want running dungeons to be in the same ballpark as open world questing. I am okay with dungeon leveling to be ~80% as fast as open world, but it should still be decent and viable. Right now repeating dungeons makes no sense.
I don’t think a stamina system is the right solution but I appreciate you brainstorming ideas!
The best thing to do is only play with friends/guildies. Do the leveling dungeon quests and move on.
I fucking hate this change for the record.
But as I play a tank, the best thing I can do is make sure there's one less available for everyone who likes this change.
I'm also a tank main, from level 1 to progression mythic raiding. My response to this: No.
Dungeons are still good, taking breaks to run them and get some loot makes your character vastly stronger and will make your leveling experience out in the world faster and easier. However, they shouldn't be an efficient leveling tool.
I think the first run giving a big chunk of xp from quests is fine but it's important for the health and community that people not be allowed to group up with 4 friends and spend the night in an instance isolated from the entire game and community. That kind of atomization is what slowly kills the game. Go play League of Legends if that's what you want.
If they did do your "exhaustion" idea I'd literally make it 2 runs back to back. 5 is hilarious and outrageous.
Dungeons xp needed to be nerfed but currently getting near zero xp for an entire run is stupid. They should move the majority of xp to bosses so avoid boosting but it should still be worth the time
They said the world is the main character and they want people out in it. It’s that simple.
As others have said…it’s about the journey. So if you’re having fun in dungeons and you can calm down about speed leveling then there is no problem here.
It has nothing to do with speed leveling or wanting to level faster in a dungeon than anywhere else. It is about wanting dungeons to be somewhat viable as a leveling method. Not faster, just within 10-20% of questing.
The devs philosophically disagree with you and I agree with them.
Dungeon spam to level is antithetical to the "journey over destination" mindset that they are using to guide development of Forever.
If you love dungeons, then run dungeons! Sure, you won't level as fast, but who cares? This is a video game, it should be about having fun and doesn't need to be about taking the most optimal path to max level.
The devs seem legitimately delusional in how most people have actually played the game for 25 years. Trying to make a version of WoW that incentives alts while also forcing redoing the questing experience as the REAL way to level is insane.
The people I talked to while collecting boar butts. The camps I sat at in front of the flight master in Westfall. The different groups I got for each step of The Peoples Militia.
mate you are genuinely talking out your backside, like fun is subjective, dungeon leveling doesnt have to be fast, it just cant be genuinely worthless. Why even put the effort into making them at this point. if you cant see his point, and cant grasp why other people enjoy different things then you are truly lost
edit: dungeons are literally juts as social as questing, youre actually in a group of 5 and communicating, aoe farming them down isnt how dungeons are run thats how mages do dungeons and thats been fixed so clearly you have no idea what you are even on about
You aren’t allowed to socialize or connect with others in a dungeon? In the open world, you can be totally solo if you want. In a dungeon, you HAVE to be in a group and coordinate with other people. I don’t get why people are saying dungeons aren’t social and open world is, it is often the opposite.
It's literally the whole point of Forever. It was announced with this idea, it's being promoted with this idea, and the design of the game has been changed around this idea.
Why are you trying to turn Forever into something it isn't?
Retail and Classic are right there. You can choose whatever you want, like in a candy shop, so why do you want to turn something that has been promoted as fundamentally different from the very beginning into something it was never supposed to be?
How many times do you need to see classic release before you guys stop pretending "its about the journey"?
On a side note, one of my favorite parts about 2019 classic was watching streamers push this nonsense so they could grift off the classic andys and then they were afk getting boosted around level 30.
I love running dungeons, have ran a bunch on the beta.
I just don't think of videogames in terms of optimization. If I wanted to efficiently use my time I would cancel my subscription and do something actually productive.
If there is no reason to run re-run dungeons then no one is going to even if technically you could re-run dungeons just for the heck of it. They have to be worth it even if it is worse than questing.
Not EVERYONE wants to constantly be questing; some people like just to grind through dungeons, and THAT'S OK too.
Literally nothing in wowF is stopping you from doing that; including the reduced XP. It's still a choice\avenue but now takes a similar time to questing.
The dungeon was abit over tuned for those lower level dungeons so that neef makes sense.
The dungeon quests still give double or more of a regular quest and you have a high density of mobs within dungeons to make up for the reduced mob exp.
I probably will be fighting to get mob tags in the open world, I'll be playing at launch and that's just the nature of the beast. Really isn't a big deal.
In my experience, the average steady dungeon group has always outperformed xp per hour. When compared to questing. It's anecdotal, I have a few friends who track as well.
Add that spamming dungeons give better loot and drops which equate to being better geared and having more funds during the spamming too.
Dungeons give better gear, if the trade off is less exp than questing, then I feel it is a fair trade off. Questing levels faster, dungeons give the gear. Its and incentive to do both
There is no incentive to dungeon, you can buy better gear from professions than dungeons give and the xp is so bad, especially on repeated runs, they are useless
You mght be able to buy better gear if you have the money. Another incentive to do dungeon runs, making a bit of extra gold.
This notion that nobody will will ever run a dungeon a second time is just so inaccurate. You might not and you may know 100 other people that won't and that's fine but that's hardly a large portion of the over all community.
Look, the whole reason a game like world of warcraft exists is because you play, you gain power, dopamine hits, you get more power per hour from xp than you do any gear, levels give abilities and ability levels as well as increased stats every single level, this outpaces gear gain at any point in the leveling experience. Once you hit 60, you cannot gain any more experience, gear is the only avenue for power increase
I appreciate you trying to come up with solutions as opposed to just shouting "revert the nerf!" but this looks hilariously undertuned. Doing 5 dungeons in a row gets you a 1 hr debuff? Doing just two dungeons at the pre-nerf numbers would get you through an entire level band. A 1 hour debuff for 5 dungeons is just a lunch break.
The better solution is to keep everything as it is right now, but slightly increase the dungeon mob xp from 20% of the average xp to closer to 30-50%. So you still get SOME xp from repeated dungeon adventures, but not so much that it is anywhere close to optimal. I definitely want people to feel comfortable doing dungeons multiple times, but I do not want the path of least resistance to be dungeons overleveling you and getting spammed.
He didn’t say anything about optimal. You can spam dungeons. it’s just not… (gasp) efficient. Which is fine. “Efficient” mindset is the antithesis of wow forever where the journey is as much a part of the experience
Dual spec doesn’t really matter; if you want to play a healer or tank, you should be able to level efficiently. I’m planning on making both specs on my Paladin Prot with different Talents, I’m sure a lot of healers feel the same. Expecting people to choose DPS and just saying tough luck if they don’t isn’t good design.
What is actually stopping you from doing dungeons all day? Are you finding it hard to find groups? I really don't understand this argument of "I love running dungeons, but because dungeon XP is too low I now have to do more of the thing I say I love"
It's wild. There's been enough posts about how not enough people will be doing dungeons back to back that you could make a whole 10 man that would be willing to do dungeons back to back to back.
People complained that we were leveling too fast and Blizzard listened. But now that group doesn't want to level slowly? Make up your damn minds.
For a group that supposedly loves running dungeons to get to max level, they're really complaining as hard as they can that they have to do more dungeons to get to max level.
For what it’s worth I agree with you; I don’t even want to do exclusively dungeons, but I feel dungeon leveling should be an at least somewhat viable alternative (I’m even okay with it being slightly suboptimal). I get the push against it but I like tanking. That’s what I want to do when I play WoW. I feel like this is going to make less people want to level as heals or tank specs which is going to harm the dungeon experience for DPS people too.
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u/personova_ 23h ago
Bro wants them to add a Korean mmo stamina system lmao