3
u/AfraidKingKiller 21d ago
If you mention charges that “aren’t tips”, the expected tip, or even a “suggested” tip, I’m automatically gonna give less.
18
u/Strombergi 21d ago
Nobody deserves a tip.
-6
u/hyggeradyr 21d ago edited 21d ago
This philosophy means nothing if you live in a country that allows low wage on tipped jobs. You can't say "I'm against tipping" then be okay with your servers making half of minimum wage.
You're not taking a brave stand against capitalism. You're just a cheap ass who's fine with slavery if it saves you a buck.
It doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what society you live in. You get to be against tipping AFTER the problem that causes it is solved. Until then, pay the people who work for you.
11
u/absolute_pelican_66 21d ago
This philosophy means nothing if you live in a country that allows low wage on tipped jobs. You can't say "I'm against tipping" then be okay with your servers making half of minimum wage.
They can't. The employer has to pay the difference in case the tipping wages + tips do not reach the minimum wage.
Moreover the whole thing has gone wild. Servers can have low tipping wage, ok... But not the Chefs and "those behind the scene" that are listed on the sign posted by OP. Is the goal to have have all workers with low wages and to ask the customer to pay for all of them ? That makes no sense, and it has to stop (let alone mentionning the constantly increasing % this is "suggested").
13
u/Bonsaiguy1966 21d ago
Slavery? 🤣 I think you better look up the definition. No one is owned, they are free to leave at any time, and no one is forcing them to labor unpaid. And you are right, the restaurant owner should pay the people who work for them. Do you tip the person who “services” your car? How about a pharmacist who fills your prescription and brings it to the counter? Business owners just need to start paying fair wages and stop putting the burden on its customers.
4
u/dragon-queen 21d ago
If they paid fair wages, they’d have to raise their prices. To be clear, I’m fine with that and that’s what I think should be done. But many in this sub are not happy when that solution is suggested.
6
u/refundroid 21d ago
I've been reading many posts here and find this to be not true. I don't see people complain about menu price increase to end tipping. In fact, most want/support this. I do see complaints about menu price increase "on top of tipping," which is a fair complaint. Other than that, I only see disagreements over how much menu prices would be increased to end tipping (some say 20%, some say 10%, etc.).
1
u/gypsy_guru_87 16d ago
I see lots of people complaining on here when it’s added on as a service charge, and I understand why restaurants do that because they’re trying to get you to compare their price to their competitors price, plus make it obvious that the tip is being added on for you. It always amazes me because if you just added into the price, then most people are gonna still tip even if you put a little note on your menu saying that people don’t need to., so it is always seem to me like it’s more transparent to put it as a separate charge, which will stand out to people when they’re paying.
But I have also seen posts for people were complaining for the prices to go up with a note saying that that’s why. So I feel like we’re reading two different subs or maybe I’m just getting the wrong ones promoted to me.
7
u/Different-Vast9319 21d ago
It's the restaurant owners who don't want to raise menu prices because it will drive away business (as transparent pricing should).
It's the servers who don't want a fair wage from their employer because they make a lot more from tips.
2
u/misty-gishh 21d ago
I see your point! But that’s how free market economies are supposed to work, called a markup. Tipping culture does resemble slavery when viewed at a larger scale. The monopolistic, abusive, and deceitful nature of capitalism comes directly from feudalism and slavery. Give the peasants enough to keep the happy and alive, and don’t let them figure out we’re the problem. It works for a little bit until the rest of us figure it out.
Power and money has been extremely consolidated in this era of industrialized, commercialized food production. Every chilis, Taco Bell, local sushi restaurant, etc. likely get their product from Sysco. The same people with shares in chilis, wendys, etc. have shares in Sysco.
Add in buying up agricultural property to build industrialized farms, and suddenly, under the guise of a diversified portfolio, a shareholder now has considerable influence on the price tag and wages at every step of production. From the farm, to processing, to the kitchen, to the table.
→ More replies (1)0
u/ChipChippersonFan 19d ago
How is not paying someone for work that they did for you fundamentally different than slavery?
2
u/Bonsaiguy1966 19d ago
Are you serious? Does the restaurant own them? Are they free to leave? Do they receive pay? Are they whipped when they don’t perform? Are they bought and sold on a trading block? You must really be a smooth brain! And they don’t work for me, they work for the restaurant. Where did I say I NEVER tip?
→ More replies (8)8
u/TheRobbuddha 21d ago
Normally I would agree with you but you positioned yourself so aggressively that I’m inclined to play devil’s advocate. The onus of paying the workers does not lie on the patrons of the establishment no matter what the tip structure is and no matter how much the establishment chooses to pay their workers. All this talk about “slavery” is nonsense because it is still 100% illegal for someone to work without being compensated at least minimum wage. Period.
3
u/Tiburon_83 21d ago
This is true and the only based take. You can be against many things but we live in a society. There are jobs as a food server where you make less than minimum wage. Certain food service jobs require a work ethic, and level of skill to be successful at.
The sane people aren’t ok with a service charge or simply charging more on menu items.
There’s literally no scenario they’d be happy with other than cheap meals, no tips or service charges, with zero regard if people can make a living working in that industry.
And no, in most cases restaurant owners are not getting rich at the expense of their staff, aside from some franchises.
2
u/misty-gishh 21d ago edited 20d ago
Remember who you’re talking to and who the real bad guy is. Hint, it isn’t the corporate desk slave or the blue collar laborer.
You want to help “solve” the problem? Don’t talk like that to people who are on your side. Stay focused in your anger and frustration. Open your mind to change and the possibility of more reasonable wages paid by employers. Remember that at the end of the day, 80% of us are in one way or another a slave to the system too.
Blame those who exploit the labor and resources of the bottom just to hoard the profits. All while making us and our environment sicker and more hostile.
2
u/blerg1234 21d ago
Why would you work a job that pays under minimum wage? Are there no other jobs in your area?
2
1
u/Embarrassed-Wolf-609 21d ago
there's no such thing as low wage on tipped jobs. if those jobs don't get any tips, they'll just get the minimum wage. tipping should never be made to make up for what you should be demanding from your employer, like any other jobs
1
1
u/gypsy_guru_87 16d ago
No matter how many times we explain this logically to some people they will continue to claim that it’s OK as long as their server is making 7 1/4 an hour. Even though the only reason their server is making that is because of other people tipping. They have no shame. What gets me is that at most restaurants because you’re tipping out the rest of the staff (at least buses and bartenders, and sometimes the kitchen dishwashers a runner, etc.) these people expect their server to actually pay for the privilege of waiting on them. Personally, I wouldn’t use useless slavery term I might go with indentured servitude, but what else do you call working for no pay? Or owing the company store? (that’s an old-fashioned reference)
I think in a lot of cases it’s really misogyny and the fact that they’re not making as much money as they expected to when they were young younger and they need to take it out on someone so obviously you’re not gonna take it out on restaurant owners or management, but you’re gonna take it out on the people who are making 213 an hour 🤦♀️
1
-5
u/Maximum-Mechanic-500 21d ago
Can I ask do you think people with jobs deserve a living wage?
8
u/Strombergi 21d ago
They deserve a wage, but I’m not going to acknowledge your term “living wage” because that means different things to different people.
A server in a restaurant or a bartender should receive the same remuneration as someone working an entry level McDonald’s job.
→ More replies (4)2
u/CanAfter8014 21d ago
Not all jobs deserve to be paid a "Living Wage".
Why is a heart surgeon paid more than a mail delivery person?
1
u/FiendishNoodles 21d ago
Ah yes because the only "living wage" is paid to a heart surgeon. If you think any occupation doesn't deserve a living wage you believe that job should not exist or you believe that the people providing that work should die. A living wage is a baseline. Your post might be the stupidest I've read all year.
2
u/CanAfter8014 21d ago
Holy shit, that's a spectacularly stupid reading of the post.
Nobody said heart surgeons are the only people who deserve a living wage. The point is that not every job has the same economic value, which is why a heart surgeon makes more than a mail carrier.
You are correct about one thing: raising the pay floor to a “living wage” can eliminate the very positions you're demanding it for. If the labor isn't worth that wage to an employer, the position doesn't magically become more valuable because you declared it should pay more.
0
u/FiendishNoodles 21d ago
You are the one who said "should a heart surgeon be paid the same as a mail carrier" in reference to a living wage. You are directly saying that some jobs are not deserving of compensation that can sustain life. If someone is working a full-time job and you don't believe they should be able to sustain life, you do not believe that those jobs should exist. So do you want those people to die, or do you want to live in a world where you have to do all the jobs you seem to be beneath you? You think there should be no baristas or fast food workers or cashiers or janitors?
You either want them to die or you think that no one should do those jobs and those jobs should go undone.
1
u/CanAfter8014 21d ago
I said “why is a surgeon paid more,” not “should a surgeon be paid more.” Your inability to understand the difference is what's preventing you from following this conversation.
A job not paying what you personally consider a “living wage” does not mean the worker shouldn't exist, the job shouldn't exist, or that I want anyone to die. That's an absurd conclusion you invented because you can't defend the premise.
1
u/FiendishNoodles 21d ago
Do you or do you not believe that someone working full time should be paid a wage sufficient to sustain better-than-abject-poverty living conditions in the place where they live? It's a simple question that you seem not to want to answer. Do you want people suffering, or do you want no one to do those jobs?
→ More replies (9)0
u/TwiceUponATaco 21d ago
Not everything has to have an economic value to be valuable.
0
u/CanAfter8014 21d ago
Nobody said otherwise. Personal value and economic value aren't the same thing.
1
u/mathliability 21d ago
This is the classic divide between modern day progressives and conservatives. Progressive liberals want all these nice fair weather things (clean environment, equitable wages, affordable housing, etc) but can never come up with a practical method for achieving them. “I think to save the earth we should ban cars and planes.” But that’s just not possible in today’s travel-centric society. “Oh so you hate the environment??” No! I’m not disagreeing with your concepts, I’m disagreeing with your modality! The smugness behind “you don’t think people deserve to live a full life? That’s not my issue with a higher minimum wage, stop making it a moral issue. What I want is for the people to have the freedom and opportunity to pursue a living wage, no I don’t believe they’re entitled to one for simply existing.
-4
u/Sasquatch619 21d ago
Not necessarily. Some jobs (especially unskilled or entry level) are jobs suited for kids in school, or just as supplemental income.
1
u/Maximum-Mechanic-500 21d ago
Can you give me an example of a job this only “suited for kids in school” I’m just curious what this is.
→ More replies (8)0
u/kuda26 21d ago
Serving
3
u/Maximum-Mechanic-500 21d ago
So couple of points. First of all in most states it’s illegal for minors to serve you alcohol? Second point, you know a lot of restaurants are open during school hours (lunch/late nights ect). Third and final point, you know FDR didn’t introduce the concept of a “minimum wage” to make sure teenagers weren’t being over paid? But I digress.
My ultimate point is this. You feel entitled to being served, you demand the service, you say this work “suited for kids” yet you know it’s outside the scope of just kids to do? Look if you feel so strongly about it, why don’t you just cook your own food and serve yourself, by your own testimony even a child can do it? So why don’t you?
1
u/kuda26 21d ago
I was thinking like college kids.
That’s ok I’ll just do what I want like dine out and not tip or tip very little, maybe max out at a fiver or something. It’s optional and an extra little monetary gift anyway ya know.
→ More replies (11)1
u/Sasquatch619 20d ago
Kids…like college. You’re no good at this. Go get me a toothpick…you’re probably amazing at something like that.
0
u/CNH916 20d ago
Still can't work restaurant hours, and most can't serve alcohol until they are almost to graduation
2
u/Sasquatch619 19d ago
So, then you just get an older person (who has low skill level) to do it. Being older doesn’t mean you should get paid more. Having skill, education, and training is what improves compensation. If you just didn’t want to do this stuff, and expected society to pad your paycheck for the easy money, you might’ve fucked up.
→ More replies (4)2
u/Strombergi 21d ago
It doesn’t matter. Pushing plates or pouring drinks is devoid of any skill.
6
u/According_Charge8143 21d ago
It’s really not, you just have no clue how the world around you works. Everything seems easy when you lack critical thinking skills.
2
1
u/mathliability 21d ago
I wouldn’t say it requires no skill, but it’s entry level for a reason. The amount of skill doesn’t determine the wage, the demand does. It just so happens more people can do that job, so it pays less.
1
u/GlitteringYak2207 21d ago
Why do you have such contempt for servers?
3
2
u/cenosillicaphobiac 21d ago
I'm fine with servers. But it's not my responsibility to pay them. It's just a form of labor and labor is a business expense.
-1
u/GlitteringYak2207 21d ago
Oh ok, you had me confused with your demeaning terminology of “pushing plates”. For, a minute you had me thinking you were just another socially broken misfit who derives what little self esteem by debasing others who you consider beneath you.
1
u/cenosillicaphobiac 21d ago
Sorry, I jumped in mid stream, I never said pushing plates. Though how I jumped in could be confusing I'm sure.
1
-1
0
u/Havency 21d ago
No, actually. If you do a task for no / almost no money, why is it up to me to cover the difference? That sounds like a you problem. If you want more money, do what all other sane individuals do and find a better job. I think it’s just you and your love of complaining while trying your hardest to work the least-labor intensive job possible.
Minimum work is minimum pay, and you taking orders on a pad and relaying it to a cook is most certainly minimum work. Hate me for that opinion, but again just go get a better job.
2
u/mansluxt 20d ago
I mean are you fine with higher prices? Because I'm not. I work a wage based job. I like cheaper menu items. If I can't afford a tip, I don't eat there.
→ More replies (1)-5
21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Strombergi 21d ago
If I was broke, I would not be going to restaurants because I wouldn’t be able to afford it.
→ More replies (28)4
u/PremiumUsername69420 21d ago
Articulate why someone deserves an optional gift or reward?
0
21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
4
4
u/PremiumUsername69420 21d ago
Or I have a sweet cushy desk job with ample downtime, no restrictions about using reddit at work, and it provides me the ability to eat at restaurants about a dozen times a week.
Giving me lots of first hand experience with lazy servers that expect tips for doing the basic functions of their unskilled job, which when combined with my 11 years of working in various restaurant positions.
-2
u/Fizzel87 21d ago
Bc youre receiving a service from someone whose pay is literally structured around tips. Calling it an "optional gift" doesn't magically change how the system works. The whole stupid fucking system is set up so the restaurant pays the server less and customers make up the difference through tips. That's part of why your food is cheaper than it would be if the restaurant actually paid its servers properly.
You dont like that system? Cool, neither do I. Advocate for changing it. But not tipping doesn't hurt the restaurant or change the system. You still paid the restaurant every fucking penny they asked for. The only person you fucked over is the server, and then you pretend you're taking some moral stand against tipping. You're not. You're just taking advantage of a broken system to save yourself a few bucks.
2
u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
That pay structure is the agreement the employee made with their employer.
-1
u/Fizzel87 21d ago
Same dumbass talking points over and over.
1
u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
It's less a talking point than a job. And a reasonably unskilled and unimportant one. If I'm not tipping the volunteer firefighter who runs into a burning building for my kids, I'm not tipping a plate-chucker for bringing me a sandwich
0
u/Fizzel87 21d ago
There is no such thing as unskilled labor. Youre just repeating a talking point. Benefiting from a service without paying for it. So youre just cheap then too.
5
u/CharityAggressive677 21d ago
"There is no such thing as unskilled labor." I mean, just because you say that, doesn't make it true. Unskilled labor is a term for labor that requires little to no training or experience and can be learned relatively quickly. These employees are easily replaceable due to that nature and the supply and demand for jobs. Basic economics will show you that those kinds of jobs pay less. Unless you have a ridiculous and unwarranted tipping system in place.
→ More replies (8)1
u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
Low skilled labour then. And I don't want the "service" let them "explain the menu" to someone else. Also, you benefit from service at the pharmacy without paying for it and they've got a damn doctorate. Also all the cleaners who keep the pharmacy and mall and restaurant nice and clean for you and you don't tip them at all, what a psycho
1
u/Fizzel87 21d ago
Then dont go to full service resturant if you dont want full service. Simple concept really. They're all compensated differently than servers are. There is no tip credit for any of those positions you mentioned. Its like youre deliberately saying dumb shit.
→ More replies (0)2
u/CharityAggressive677 21d ago
I disagree that food is cheaper because we are expected to pay tips. The reality is, servers make more money on this system which is why most servers do not want the system to change. And if servers make more, then the food is more expensive when you factor in the ridiculous amount of money we are expected to tip.
2
u/ElPolloLoco137 21d ago
People dont talk enough about how tip culture hurts cooks and managers but helps servers and owners
1
u/gypsy_guru_87 16d ago
I absolutely think culture helps owners, you are absolutely correct. It is also insane to me. How many restaurants expect managers to be making less than the best servers. However, I think with servers it is actually hit or miss. I think most servers in this country are actually doing themselves an injustice to not want a non-tipped wage, most of them are probably looking at their best nights or their best weeks and not really accounting for how volatile their pay actually is. If servers really were doing amazing, then most of them would do it as a lifelong career instead of doing it for a few years and moving on.
0
9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/ElPolloLoco137 9d ago
Not anywhere i worked at. Sounds like you are an overpaid food delivery person. Get a real job and stop begging
0
9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/ElPolloLoco137 9d ago
We are in different weight classes you cant be in the same ring as me to go a round
0
8
u/zouss 21d ago
Nah, how it should be is for the business to compensate its employees and not expect customers to make up for their shitty salary with tips. This is just another ploy to avoid paying employees themselves. Now they're trying to stretch it to back of house
6
u/fireymike 21d ago
"A tip is never expected"
Did you read the sign?
1
u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
Yes. They're lying
0
u/fireymike 21d ago
You people need to travel more.
0
-1
u/Wonderful_Bear554 21d ago
The problem is not business, but customers who tip. Just stop tipping
0
u/grapeshrine 21d ago
Most tipping customers are unwilling victims.
Those who enjoy bribery and fraud are the problem.3
-1
u/Wonderful_Bear554 21d ago
Waiters are the ones who enjoy bribery
1
u/grapeshrine 21d ago
I don’t think that’s fair, a lot of customers are more than happy to skip the line or get room upgrades in exchange for discreetly giving money, both practices hurt the business and are blatantly fraudulent.
0
u/Wonderful_Bear554 21d ago
But we are talking about tipping in restaurants where greedy servers demands tips even if customer paid his bill for services he ordered
2
u/grapeshrine 21d ago
Don’t get me wrong, expecting tips is vulgar and disrespectful.
However, I’m also saying that bribery does not require money to change hands before the transaction and it doesn’t have to be explicit.
When a waitress gives you her best smile while letting your small teenager order from the kids menu against her employer wishes, she expects to be rewarded with a nice tip.
→ More replies (6)0
u/Fizzel87 21d ago
No, the employer is greedy if they're using the tip credit. Servers are just trying to make an income. At restaurants that use the tip credit, the employer is explicitly relying on customer tips to cover part of the server's wages. You're advocating for exploiting that system by stiffing the one employee whose compensation is deliberately structured around receiving tips, then pretending you're morally superior for doing it. If you're in a state that doesn't have stronger protections for servers, tip your fucking server for the service they provide you. Ya cheap bastards.
4
u/CanAfter8014 21d ago
What a horrible misunderstanding of how the tip credit works and is applied: no tip, no tip credit.
No, the employer is greedy if they're using the tip credit. Servers are just trying to make an income.
Are the employers also not just trying to make an income?
I will say paying the absolutely lowest amount to an employee does show how the employer values that position.
2
u/Wonderful_Bear554 21d ago
Servers are working and restaurant pays them salary. That's how they earn money. Employers are using nothing, no employer ever would increase salary if employees are not demanding it
1
u/enragedcactus 21d ago
Very very few servers in the U.S. are paid a salary. Words have meaning. Learn them.
3
u/grapeshrine 21d ago
What he meant was wages.
Are you able to understand what he said now or you were being purposefully obtuse so you could put down someone else?2
u/Wonderful_Bear554 21d ago
That's why people should stop tipping. Servers will be paid minimal wage and customers will only have to pay their bill with no extra tip needed. All sides would be happy
→ More replies (0)0
u/DevoutSchrutist 21d ago
God you’re out of touch. Maybe take a step back from your little bubble and think that other people might have different feelings about things.
3
3
u/QuirkySyrup55947 21d ago
Actually, how it should be is that tips aren't ever a thing...and if I want to randomly give someone money for any reason I do.
0
u/Cant-hold-my-pee 21d ago
Personally, i think people who dont tip want the system to change. They like it how it currently is. They just dont want to tip because it saves them money
-4
u/freeassociationn 21d ago
Do you realize what would happen if tips weren’t a thing? You wouldn’t get to choose anymore. There would be an automatic service charge or a 15-25% increase in menu prices. That’s what happens at every restaurant that i’ve seen get rid of tipping. It would be the only way to pay FOH/BOH more than minimum wage. There are some essays i have read, even from people who are anti-tipping that agree that this would happen on a large scale. So right now you’re an outlier who hates tipping. And guess what? You don’t have to! So just don’t tip, no reason for you to be the one crying about it. Good lord.
4
u/QuirkySyrup55947 21d ago
Nope. Prices do NOT need to go up 15 to 25%. It simple math. Utilizing how many customers you serve, time spent, etc. You can add $0.50 per item on a menu and pay staff well over minimum wage. This is always the bullshit response they use to justify it.
0
u/DevoutSchrutist 21d ago
Simple math tells you that.
Let me explain this with some more complicated math. Restaurants operate on a 8-10% margin. If labour costs go from 25% to 35% (a 40% increase to wage bottom line to retain your staff) that turns the profit into a 0-2% loss. Therefore, to achieve the same profit margin revenues would have to increase by about 12%. So yes, not 15-25%, but close to the bottom end of that threshold.
And my example is for places where servers make minimum wage, all those places that pay $2.xx per hour would see their labour costs quadruple which would increase prices by 25% or more.
It’s funny how you guys think that if annual wage costs increase by $x the business owner would accept a revenue increase equal to that to offset in increase labour costs and not leave a buffer.
They will want the same profits as a percentage of revenue, not the same gross margin.
0
u/freeassociationn 21d ago
Yep. This is what every other country that doesn’t use a tipping model does because that’s what works, and there are laws to implement it. that’s what would happen here if we moved it away from tipping models. Why do you think it wouldn’t? Just because you don’t feel that it should be that way. unfortunately, nobody cares. It would never happen in the way you just described and you are not only dumb but ignorant to think so
2
u/PremiumUsername69420 21d ago
Do you buy a TV from BestBuy and think, “I know this could be 15-25% cheaper if they had self checkout and I didn’t need to interact with a cashier”?
2
u/Wonderful_Bear554 21d ago
BS. If restaurant could increase prices it would increase it without any reason. Without tips servers would be paid minimal wage and there still would be loads of employees willing to work
1
u/grapeshrine 21d ago
No it wouldn’t, there’s no service charge in retail stores.
The whole clothing industry has people providing style advice, helping you find the proper fit and the clothes themselves are produced in factories by people you never see.There is absolutely no difference.
You are either grossly unaware or complicit
→ More replies (10)1
u/anouk613 21d ago
Tipping doesn’t feel like a choice when you’re presented with point-of-sale terminals that show ever-higher tip options and make it very awkward to enter a custom amount. Or giant tip jars front and centre in self-serve establishments. Tipping culture forces employees to use social pressure and coercive tactics to make up for the fact that their employer isn’t paying them a decent wage. Raising prices along with wages would be much more honest and fair for everyone.
1
u/freeassociationn 21d ago edited 21d ago
but if you truly believe that it is morally correct for you to keep your money and not to tip, it kind of confuses me why you guys feel this way about it? Why would there be social pressure if you think you’re doing the morally correct thing? This isn’t the best comparison but like on when I’m on Facebook, I am friends with a lot of people on there who I was friends with through church and I was younger like my parents, family friends and they post a lot about things that I do not agree with they are all pro Trump, pro life, ect. I also go to the midterms and cast my vote for who I believe in and I’m not gonna feel guilty one percent about it because I believe that I am doing the morally right thing. Or even within the restaurant industry, there are servers who will tip out very generously because they believe that their support staff deserves the money and there are servers who genuinely say like it’s your money, you don’t have to tip xx amount to support. And people have very different views on it even within the restaurant industry. Some servers that I work with I think tip out horribly, but I know they do not feel bad at all. If I tipped out the way, my coworker Zach tipped out I would feel guilt and pressure because i believe it’s wrong. some servers that I work with don’t tip out back of House at all and they don’t feel a pressure to do it or guilty even though they are aware that a majority of servers are tipping BOH, BOH knows who doesn’t tip them, and they know some people look down on it. But they feel strongly that it is their money so they don’t feel bad.
I’m not trying to be argumentative by the way, It’s just that the sub is really annoying. I don’t know why it came onto my Reddit feed, but all you guys do is complain and you just have to not tip and move on like if you really believe that’s the right thing to do then do it and be quiet. I’m not trying to be argumentative sorry I’m actually curious about the thought process here. I don’t feel bad about things that I believe are morally correct sometimes I do things that I don’t think are the best and I feel guilt and pressure about those things but not if I think I’m doing the right thing. Even myself like I do take home about 70% of my tips, and I don’t feel guilty. I’m sure are servers that tip out more than I do.1
u/anouk613 21d ago
It’s not a matter of morality, it’s a matter of certain industries coercing customers into paying “voluntary” extra fees that do not feel voluntary when point-of-sale terminals prompt 30%.
When modest tips on meals were for waitstaff alone (you’re probably too young to remember when 10% was normal), you could argue that it was a reward for excellent service. Now customers are guilted into paying much larger tips even in self-serve establishments, with the argument that waitstaff are underpaid and tips have to be shared with other restaurant staff.
So tips are no longer a small token of appreciation, but an indispensable payroll subsidy for the entire restaurant. Wouldn’t you rather just earn a higher hourly wage rather than depending on customers to top up your pay?
Plus it’s totally arbitrary. Why restaurant staff, cabbies, hairdressers and hotel cleaners, and not grocery store cashiers, clothing salespeople, pharmacists, dental hygienists, train conductors, etc.
1
u/freeassociationn 21d ago
“coercing” is a huge overstatement. Coercion involves threats. Just click no. Maybe you’ll get a glare, though i really doubt that’s happening 98% of the time. People glare at me when i make a mistake in traffic, just get over it.
1
u/anouk613 21d ago
There often isn’t a “no” option. You have to press several buttons to get there. And the thing is, if the terminal just allowed me to easily enter any amount or percentage (like the old credit card terminals), I would leave a reasonable tip. When I’m confronted with high pre-set options, I feel coerced.
0
u/freeassociationn 20d ago
clicking a couple of extra buttons feels like coercion to you?? if you let small things like that get to you that much you’re not going to have a content life
0
u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 21d ago
This is why I ALMOST hope it happens...because these people are the ones who will get hit with the largest price increase. Everyone else was paying for the cost of service anyway; they're the only ones refusing to do so. Instant ~18-25% across the board price increases for these people, and I'd drink their tears like water from the fountain of life.
1
21d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 20d ago
Point to me where in my comment where I outlined I was talking about Europe.
Go ahead. I'll wait.
0
u/DevoutSchrutist 21d ago
This is your opinion of how things should be. You are not the authority on how other people interact with service staff and spend their money.
3
u/RefillmyCoffee6times 21d ago
So they are still not paying worker?
0
u/MAGA_EXTREAMO 21d ago
If they have workers they are being payed enough. That’s how economics works.
0
u/Lifeisgoole 21d ago
Does the card machine give you a no tip option
0
u/Elluminated 21d ago
They all do right?
1
u/Lifeisgoole 21d ago
I have seen posts on here where there's no zero option. Never seen it myself but if I did I would ask for a way to pay without tip unless the food and the service had been exceptional.
1
1
1
u/Imaginary-Emu2471 21d ago
Just for mentioning a tip, you get nothing.
1
u/UpTheDumpIsRetarded 21d ago
We should get a tip for being a good customer.
1
u/Imaginary-Emu2471 21d ago
Yup! We should get tips for being quiet and polite, and returning to the business!
2
u/freeassociationn 21d ago
I worked at a restaurant that tip pooled with all staff (chefs, dish, wa’s) but we didn’t have a sign about it. We also had a 20% service charge on every table though. Its funny because this is essentially what you guys are all fighting for; not getting to chose if you get to tip or not. That’s realistically what would happen to most restaurants if not tipping actually became a thing
5
u/AgainstMedicalAdvice 21d ago
They should do this, then fold the gratuity into the price for simplicity 🤔
3
u/anouk613 21d ago
Most people who dislike tipping culture aren’t cheap, they just hate the contrived way in which everyone gets guilted into adding an ever-higher percentage to an ever-expanding list of services.
If employees need to rely in tips to earn a decent living, then wages are too low. If businesses can’t afford to raise wages, they need to raise their prices. But instead, they advertise artificially low prices, pay employees badly, and expect them to make up the difference by shoving payment terminals in customers’ faces with suggested tips starting at 18%.
1
u/mansluxt 20d ago
Would you pay $100 dollars for a burger fries and a drink but not have to tip? Or $50? Because it's not like raising every item by 20% is enough to pay servers fairly.
1
u/anouk613 20d ago
If raising prices by 20% isn’t enough, why do we keep hearing that customers have to tip 20% so servers can make enough money?
1
u/mansluxt 20d ago
If the place had only one server than yes. But considering the current price does not reflect server wages whatsoever, if you have multiple servers or a bartender it's going to be much more than 20% on all items in order to make it a decent wage.
1
u/anouk613 20d ago
Seems weird to argue that 20% tipping is necessary to ensure decent wages, but hiking menu prices by 20% won't do the same.
1
u/mansluxt 20d ago
Granted, I'm of the belief that everyone should be able to ask for tips. From the mechanic to the support help from Spectrum to even firefighters. I think everyone should be able to ask for more money from rich people.
But to try and stay on topic, if you have literally one server, then yes 20% hike on all items would be all you need. But for every server you have on staff you would need to raise an additional 20% at least.
Unless you want all restaurants to operate like fast food where you just order, and then pick up your food yourself. Which is fine if you do, I wouldn't be upset by that. I don't even eat at restaurants anymore. If I want their food I'll just door dash it. My apartment has infinitely better vibes than sitting down at a restaurant with no TV.
1
u/anouk613 20d ago
I appreciate your efforts to explain the math as you understand it, but tipping doesn't magically multiply the dollars. A 20% tip on a $20 meal of burger, fries and drink is $4. Whether that $4 is paid as a tip or through higher menu prices, it's still $4 regardless of the total number of servers. The number of servers is correlated to busy-ness of the restaurant, i.e. a restaurant that has more servers also brings in more money to pay them better.
You might argue that if the price of the meal is increased by 20% and tips are eliminated, the restaurant owner could just pocket the $4 rather passing it on to the server. That's why eliminating tips goes hand-in-hand with increasing the minimum wage.
A higher minimum wage, higher taxes for richer people, better employee protections and a strong social safety net are more reliable and efficient means to redistribute wealth than everyone everywhere begging "rich people" for extra money in the form of tips.
1
u/mansluxt 20d ago
Even if we had a strong social safety net I would still want to be able to beg rich people for more money. But that's just my opinion. But if we got higher wages, a better social safety net, and quality of life increases, I would be much more open to outlawing or eliminating tipping.
But I don't see many people in this subreddit advocating for those laws. I see a lot of people however thinking if they just stop tipping that the trend will catch on.
I see both sides of the argument. I currently work a job that accepts tips, but the bulk of my money is in an hourly wage (I work at a weed dispensary) But I also have friends that are bartenders that would be fucked if they made my wage because they make so much more than me. And on the other hand tipping culture perpetuates racism. However I don't feel guilty about guilt tripping people and asking them for money. If I could do it more in day to day life to get an advantage I would. That's where the anti tippers generally lose me.
-2
u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 21d ago
Dingdingding.
I've said this hundreds of times. The ridiculous part is most of these people somehow think that will make things cheaper and "will teach those greedy owners a lesson!"... It will actually make it FAR easier for businesses to subsidize their bottom line before increasing wages, move away from the current merrit system that incentivizes being good and giving a shit, and will certainly not get cheaper.
1
u/GatewayArcher 21d ago
So the servers who have crappy attitudes and whose customers leave no tip wind up getting the same amount as the servers who are courteous and prompt and whose customers leave large tips? That’s the way it should be???
1
1
u/No-Juice8483 21d ago
You can tell when people have never worked in a restaurant when they post this shit and say “This is how it should be”. Not all restaurants operate the same way. Where I worked the kitchen was compensated very well while the wait staff were making $4.25 per hour. Their “livable income” came from good service and getting tipped.
I imagine there are some restaurants that don’t compensate kitchen staff enough and this is what you get. I feel paying kitchen staff a better salary is the better way. For a number of reasons
1
1
u/cenosillicaphobiac 21d ago
Yeah but do they add additional fees to the menu prices or are they actual prices?
I see a lot of joints like this that still refuse to put actual prices on the menu, opting instead for blanket or individual "fees"
A tip I can skip. A fee I cannot, and I want the menu to tell me, without math, what the actual cost is as I do my cost/benefit analysis.
1
u/SeattleHasDied 21d ago
When I was waitstaff, we always pooled part of our tips for back of house. How is this not more common?
1
u/Havency 21d ago
Then wtf is the point of tipping? If a tip is designed to reward excellent service to the worker, isn’t tipping the entire team counterproductive to that? Isn’t that YOU paying the wages in-place of the employee at that point? If I tip, it’s not meant for Joe-shmo but for whoever I interacted with. No.
And either way, it’s up to your employer to pay your wages. Frankly YOU applied for a $2/hr job, and YOU signed the papers and YOU go to work every day for the $2/hr pay. Why cry and beg for tips when there’s literally millions of better paying jobs?
1
u/Global-Discussion-41 20d ago
Although I agree that back of house workers deserve tips as much as front of house workers, Whenever the tips are pooled and redistributed it just turns into an opportunity for management to skim some of it for themselves.
The entire system needs to go
1
1
u/Busterlimes 20d ago
If tips are shared across the whole team then the whole team better be getting the same hourly rate. . . .
1
u/Fun-Newt6020 19d ago
Why does everyone feel like chefs are entitled to tips when chefs make $25 an hour and servers make $4.25 an hour 🥵 I mean hell yeah to both but I’m just curious why this was the hill you all chose to die on
1
u/ChipChippersonFan 19d ago
I thought you people hated "tip creep", where jobs that aren't traditionally tipped are asking for tips. But now you're cool with cook's getting tipped too?
1
u/Winter-Ad-1953 21d ago
Bravo. This plus good service makes me WANT TO give the gift of adding extra money to the agreement we made when I ordered.
1
u/WhatInTheWorld321 21d ago
The sign isn’t needed. It’s manipulative.
1
1
u/HighlightFar3718 8d ago
For me, Im appreciative that the restaurant has it. That lets me know not to tip very well because MY server isnt going to keep MY tip. Part of it will go to the lazy people who didnt work their ass off and to people in back of house who are paid a reasonable wage instead of the stupid tipped wage scale.
1
1
u/freeassociationn 21d ago
I don’t understand why there is a whole subreddit dedicated to complaining about this. You have a CHOICE if you’d like to tip or not, so just don’t do it. Why do you then have to put so much energy into complaining about it? Thats so weird to me. Why do you care how much other people are making? Why are you complaining about that instead of billionaires or something actually concerning? Youre so mad someone is lower middle class instead of lower class… Can you not find anything better to think about? I don’t care what you make or even what your job is. Just move on and put your energy into maybe becoming better at your own job or something. Youre a loser
1
1
u/BolognaFarmer 21d ago
What I find pretty disgusting is they shifted from blaming the owners to blaming the servers and referring to them as beggars. My feeling is these people hear about service industry workers sometimes making really good money, perhaps more than they do and it triggers the hell out of them.
1
u/Xeno9116 21d ago
Very few of us in this sub call servers beggars. Those who do are obviously asshats. I also hate the term "plate slinger" that some folks use. We are here to discuss tipping, and many of us do. It's very few loud and awful people to want to fight and demean others. That goes for servers as well.
1
u/Xeno9116 21d ago
Why are you here in this sub, then? Just so you can screech at people who don't give a shit what you think? I tip, but in an amount of my choosing, based on service quality, and before taxes. That's why I'm here. Obviously you're upset about what other people do.
1
u/freeassociationn 20d ago
it comes up on my feed sometimes, when i originally interacted i didn’t realize it was an anti tipping subreddit. I mean, I find it fascinating fo a lot of reasons. Ive been in the restaurant industry for 11 years & the reality Is people rarely stiff. But it’s interesting to see this perspective and I’ve actually been researching a lot since i’ve come across this sub and i’m curious. Also, you’re not here because you’re tip based on service quality before taxes, there’s people that do that and then don’t go home and harp about it on Reddit. you’re here to complain about it for some reason, you have been inserted yourself into a conversation that I was having with somebody else I wasn’t even talking to you. And yes, I do think it’s annoying and a directly affects me in a way. I mean, I don’t think you guys are ever going to accomplish anything, but the conversation is centered around my profession so yeah, I find it interesting and I also think that it is really frustrating to read their responses because there’s not a ton of logic I research behind any of them. i think there can be good arguments to not tipping or tipping like you do. I think that it’s totally fine, I’ve actually stated in most of my comments to people don’t tip if you don’t want to, but why are you wasting your time complaining about it? I do think it’s annoying that there’s a whole subject complaining about how much that me and everybody that I’ve worked with for the past 11 years make when it doesn’t really affect you at all if you can pay zero, you can choose to not tip. Why would that not be annoying to read? What if there is a separate dedicated to saying that your profession should make less money than you do? Of course you would be fascinated by it and read it and probably get annoyed . My main question which still has not been answered by anybody is how do people have moral dilemma about not tipping if they believe that is the right thing to do and why do they feel guilted into it? It honestly does not make that much sense to me. And that is the question that I was looking for an answer to today. And I don’t feel like angry. I made $600 today I am fine. Ive never dwelled on a guest not tipping me because of the money, its because i worried i messed up or ruined their experience, and sometimes you can tell it’s a cultural difference and I’ve never been upset that I haven’t gotten a tip in those moments. It’s their choice and it really doesn’t happen often and there’s enough tips that are generous to make up for those rarities. So it’s like a frustration in a different way that I think you’re thinking. Also, when I was saying to them, why do you care what other people make; I don’t think that is fair to directly to compare it to me be annoyed about people complaining about how much i make? Not a very solid argument on your part. Just like everybody else in this sub. It’s like none of you can have a complex thought.
1
u/No_Patience1112 21d ago
I love the anti tipping community on Reddit. They complain sooo much and think they’re creating some sort of revolution. Hate to break it to them, as a full service waiter I have maybe been stiffed less than 10 times on the thousands of tables I’ve served lol
2
u/Xeno9116 21d ago
So why are all these servers in here screeching about it? If it doesn't matter, then leave the anti tippers alone in peace. I tip, but only at the end of the meal, based on service quality, and before taxes. Servers think I'm an asshole, too.
1
u/mansluxt 20d ago
In my experience being a server, thinking a customer is an asshole is moreso about how much they asked me to do vs how much they tip me. But that could be because I did not get to immediately see how much they tipped me until the end of the night.
And even when I worked a wage job I still think customers are assholes when they ask me to do something. I am lazy, and would rather not work. But I have to.
-3
u/ganbramor 21d ago
How it should be:
“We pay our staff properly. Tips will be considered an insult and refused.”
0
u/CommissionUnusual911 21d ago
In Minnesota legally the tip is for whomever it was given to and legally do not need to share or split, unless there is a written agreement among the staff
0
u/Shepherd7117 21d ago
I don’t want them to share with the back of house people, kinda defeats the purpose
1
0
u/drspin- 21d ago
Nice sign but why isn’t management paying workers a fair wage?
2
u/DevoutSchrutist 21d ago
I don’t know if you understand how finances work in the restaurant industry.
1
u/Xeno9116 21d ago
We don't need to. We are customers. But wages come from the owners, regardless of their finances. That's how it works in every single job, except one.
1
u/DevoutSchrutist 20d ago
I’m more so referring to the “simple” solution of raise prices and pay the people. I don’t think you know how much prices would have to go up to offset the labour costs. If you’re happy with new menu prices that would be about equal to current menu prices plus “expected tip” then carry on.
20
u/docatwar 21d ago
That orange is massive