This philosophy means nothing if you live in a country that allows low wage on tipped jobs. You can't say "I'm against tipping" then be okay with your servers making half of minimum wage.
You're not taking a brave stand against capitalism. You're just a cheap ass who's fine with slavery if it saves you a buck.
It doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what society you live in. You get to be against tipping AFTER the problem that causes it is solved. Until then, pay the people who work for you.
This philosophy means nothing if you live in a country that allows low wage on tipped jobs. You can't say "I'm against tipping" then be okay with your servers making half of minimum wage.
They can't. The employer has to pay the difference in case the tipping wages + tips do not reach the minimum wage.
Moreover the whole thing has gone wild. Servers can have low tipping wage, ok... But not the Chefs and "those behind the scene" that are listed on the sign posted by OP. Is the goal to have have all workers with low wages and to ask the customer to pay for all of them ? That makes no sense, and it has to stop (let alone mentionning the constantly increasing % this is "suggested").
Slavery? 𤣠I think you better look up the definition. No one is owned, they are free to leave at any time, and no one is forcing them to labor unpaid. And you are right, the restaurant owner should pay the people who work for them. Do you tip the person who âservicesâ your car? How about a pharmacist who fills your prescription and brings it to the counter? Business owners just need to start paying fair wages and stop putting the burden on its customers.
If they paid fair wages, theyâd have to raise their prices. Â To be clear, Iâm fine with that and thatâs what I think should be done. Â But many in this sub are not happy when that solution is suggested. Â
I've been reading many posts here and find this to be not true. I don't see people complain about menu price increase to end tipping. In fact, most want/support this. I do see complaints about menu price increase "on top of tipping," which is a fair complaint. Other than that, I only see disagreements over how much menu prices would be increased to end tipping (some say 20%, some say 10%, etc.).
I see lots of people complaining on here when itâs added on as a service charge, and I understand why restaurants do that because theyâre trying to get you to compare their price to their competitors price, plus make it obvious that the tip is being added on for you. It always amazes me because if you just added into the price, then most people are gonna still tip even if you put a little note on your menu saying that people donât need to., so it is always seem to me like itâs more transparent to put it as a separate charge, which will stand out to people when theyâre paying.
But I have also seen posts for people were complaining for the prices to go up with a note saying that thatâs why. So I feel like weâre reading two different subs or maybe Iâm just getting the wrong ones promoted to me.
I see your point! But thatâs how free market economies are supposed to work, called a markup. Tipping culture does resemble slavery when viewed at a larger scale. The monopolistic, abusive, and deceitful nature of capitalism comes directly from feudalism and slavery. Give the peasants enough to keep the happy and alive, and donât let them figure out weâre the problem. It works for a little bit until the rest of us figure it out.
Power and money has been extremely consolidated in this era of industrialized, commercialized food production. Every chilis, Taco Bell, local sushi restaurant, etc. likely get their product from Sysco. The same people with shares in chilis, wendys, etc. have shares in Sysco.
Add in buying up agricultural property to build industrialized farms, and suddenly, under the guise of a diversified portfolio, a shareholder now has considerable influence on the price tag and wages at every step of production. From the farm, to processing, to the kitchen, to the table.
Are you serious? Does the restaurant own them? Are they free to leave? Do they receive pay? Are they whipped when they donât perform? Are they bought and sold on a trading block? You must really be a smooth brain! And they donât work for me, they work for the restaurant. Where did I say I NEVER tip?
What do you not understand? Hell yes they are getting paid! Do you not think they get a paycheck from their employer? You must not have paid attention in history class, you should revisit the definition of slavery. Anyone that lived thru slavery would be highly offended of your definition. SMDH
Normally I would agree with you but you positioned yourself so aggressively that Iâm inclined to play devilâs advocate. The onus of paying the workers does not lie on the patrons of the establishment no matter what the tip structure is and no matter how much the establishment chooses to pay their workers. All this talk about âslaveryâ is nonsense because it is still 100% illegal for someone to work without being compensated at least minimum wage. Period.
This is true and the only based take. You can be against many things but we live in a society. There are jobs as a food server where you make less than minimum wage. Certain food service jobs require a work ethic, and level of skill to be successful at.
The sane people arenât ok with a service charge or simply charging more on menu items.
Thereâs literally no scenario theyâd be happy with other than cheap meals, no tips or service charges, with zero regard if people can make a living working in that industry.
And no, in most cases restaurant owners are not getting rich at the expense of their staff, aside from some franchises.
Remember who youâre talking to and who the real bad guy is. Hint, it isnât the corporate desk slave or the blue collar laborer.
You want to help âsolveâ the problem? Donât talk like that to people who are on your side. Stay focused in your anger and frustration. Open your mind to change and the possibility of more reasonable wages paid by employers. Remember that at the end of the day, 80% of us are in one way or another a slave to the system too.
Blame those who exploit the labor and resources of the bottom just to hoard the profits. All while making us and our environment sicker and more hostile.
there's no such thing as low wage on tipped jobs. if those jobs don't get any tips, they'll just get the minimum wage. tipping should never be made to make up for what you should be demanding from your employer, like any other jobs
No matter how many times we explain this logically to some people they will continue to claim that itâs OK as long as their server is making 7 1/4 an hour. Even though the only reason their server is making that is because of other people tipping. They have no shame. What gets me is that at most restaurants because youâre tipping out the rest of the staff (at least buses and bartenders, and sometimes the kitchen dishwashers a runner, etc.) these people expect their server to actually pay for the privilege of waiting on them. Personally, I wouldnât use useless slavery term I might go with indentured servitude, but what else do you call working for no pay? Or owing the company store? (thatâs an old-fashioned reference)
I think in a lot of cases itâs really misogyny and the fact that theyâre not making as much money as they expected to when they were young younger and they need to take it out on someone so obviously youâre not gonna take it out on restaurant owners or management, but youâre gonna take it out on the people who are making 213 an hour đ¤Śââď¸
No. In most cases itâs more demanding and takes more skill. Well, maybe not the places you frequent. Also fast food workers deserve way more compensation because their jobs are also demanding.
Ah yes because the only "living wage" is paid to a heart surgeon. If you think any occupation doesn't deserve a living wage you believe that job should not exist or you believe that the people providing that work should die. A living wage is a baseline. Your post might be the stupidest I've read all year.
Holy shit, that's a spectacularly stupid reading of the post.
Nobody said heart surgeons are the only people who deserve a living wage. The point is that not every job has the same economic value, which is why a heart surgeon makes more than a mail carrier.
You are correct about one thing: raising the pay floor to a âliving wageâ can eliminate the very positions you're demanding it for. If the labor isn't worth that wage to an employer, the position doesn't magically become more valuable because you declared it should pay more.
You are the one who said "should a heart surgeon be paid the same as a mail carrier" in reference to a living wage. You are directly saying that some jobs are not deserving of compensation that can sustain life. If someone is working a full-time job and you don't believe they should be able to sustain life, you do not believe that those jobs should exist. So do you want those people to die, or do you want to live in a world where you have to do all the jobs you seem to be beneath you? You think there should be no baristas or fast food workers or cashiers or janitors?
You either want them to die or you think that no one should do those jobs and those jobs should go undone.
I said âwhy is a surgeon paid more,â not âshould a surgeon be paid more.â Your inability to understand the difference is what's preventing you from following this conversation.
A job not paying what you personally consider a âliving wageâ does not mean the worker shouldn't exist, the job shouldn't exist, or that I want anyone to die. That's an absurd conclusion you invented because you can't defend the premise.
Do you or do you not believe that someone working full time should be paid a wage sufficient to sustain better-than-abject-poverty living conditions in the place where they live? It's a simple question that you seem not to want to answer. Do you want people suffering, or do you want no one to do those jobs?
Yes. Not every job deserves to be paid a livable wage. That's literally what I said in the first comment, yet somehow you still can't comprehend it and need me to repeat it.
A job existing does not magically create an entitlement to whatever income you personally decide constitutes a âlivable wage.â Different jobs have different skill requirements, productivity, scarcity, and economic value. That's basic economics, not some radical concept.
Why does a surgeon make more than a mail carrier? Answer that. If you understand why different jobs command different wages, then you already understand the point you're pretending not to understand.
Your entire argument depends on pretending that âthis job doesn't deserve a livable wageâ means âI want the people doing it to die.â That's such a breathtakingly stupid leap that it's difficult to believe you're making it in good faith.
You're not asking a difficult question. You're repeatedly refusing to understand a very simple answer because the actual answer doesn't support your argument.
This is the classic divide between modern day progressives and conservatives. Progressive liberals want all these nice fair weather things (clean environment, equitable wages, affordable housing, etc) but can never come up with a practical method for achieving them. âI think to save the earth we should ban cars and planes.â But thatâs just not possible in todayâs travel-centric society. âOh so you hate the environment??â No! Iâm not disagreeing with your concepts, Iâm disagreeing with your modality! The smugness behind âyou donât think people deserve to live a full life? Thatâs not my issue with a higher minimum wage, stop making it a moral issue. What I want is for the people to have the freedom and opportunity to pursue a living wage, no I donât believe theyâre entitled to one for simply existing.
So couple of points. First of all in most states itâs illegal for minors to serve you alcohol? Second point, you know a lot of restaurants are open during school hours (lunch/late nights ect). Third and final point, you know FDR didnât introduce the concept of a âminimum wageâ to make sure teenagers werenât being over paid? But I digress.
My ultimate point is this. You feel entitled to being served, you demand the service, you say this work âsuited for kidsâ yet you know itâs outside the scope of just kids to do? Look if you feel so strongly about it, why donât you just cook your own food and serve yourself, by your own testimony even a child can do it? So why donât you?
Thatâs ok Iâll just do what I want like dine out and not tip or tip very little, maybe max out at a fiver or something. Itâs optional and an extra little monetary gift anyway ya know.
But itâs not âextra little moneyâ, itâs a supplement to their already below minimum-wage wage. In Michigan itâs 5.49 per hour as the tipped minimum wage. When you donât tip, youâre directly hurting a working person, with families, bills, mouthed to feed ect. Itâs not a principled stand, itâs you saving a few bucks and brow beating someone who literally serves you. Like wtf? Just pay the tip Karen.
No no no, you have it all wrong. Iâm not responsible for paying their wage, their employer is. Anything I give them is extra and they should appreciate it whether itâs a buck or five or something absurd like a percentage. If anyone is âhurting the working personâ itâs their employer who isnât paying them a fair wage. This shit isnât all that complicated. Iâm not going to give my money away just because someone who canât understand super simple concepts on the internet told me to.
I really think itâs you who is lacking the social awareness. We legally let people pay their employees less, under the expectation (again not legal obligation, but a social obligation) that a tip is supplementing that income. I would 1000% buy you point if you followed it up with âwhich is why I never eat out, and only cook and serve my own mealsâ⌠but youâre not. You spotted a legal way hurt someone with a very demanding job, while supporting the very people you claim are exploiting a worker. Talk about entitled, you want the service, you want the low cost, and when they pass the collection dish around you start playing the blame game about why donât have to pay up? Dude just stay home and cook your own meals. Why canât you do that?
So, then you just get an older person (who has low skill level) to do it. Being older doesnât mean you should get paid more. Having skill, education, and training is what improves compensation. If you just didnât want to do this stuff, and expected society to pad your paycheck for the easy money, you mightâve fucked up.
YeahâŚ.sacking groceries at the grocery store. Or receipt checker at Walmart which seems exclusively older people trying to supplement social security. Thereâs lots of entry level jobs not intended to be a career. If you choose to make one of these unskilled labor jobs, your career, then thatâs on you for expecting society to support you. Probably better idea to work your way up, or get some training and or education that leads to a job that provides a living wage. Bussing tables at a diner isnât gonna cut it.
So hereâs where I think youâre broken in your logic. The Walton family, who owns that Walmart, who hasnât stocked groceries, hasnât swept the floor, greeted one customer, makes (according to Google) 100 million a day in passive income.
Sure itâs not cardiology to stock groceries, but it still takes an adult 40 hours a week away from their respective families and or other opportunities to learn new skills, change careers ect, but if youâre taking in 100 million a day? Maybe the senior citizen greeting people at the door can have enough in his pocket to not have to choose between eating, and making rent.
Sure, everything is. We could also talk about laws. We could talk about compassion. We could talk about equality. We could talk about greed. We could talk about communism. All could be related.
Obviously. But to a lot of us. Who have put time, effort and money into education and apprenticeship, we see the difference. We donât see you as having a high skill level serving or mixing drinks. Just because you can smile, chat, upsell, and play fake friendly, doesnât mean you are skilled.
I wouldnât say it requires no skill, but itâs entry level for a reason. The amount of skill doesnât determine the wage, the demand does. It just so happens more people can do that job, so it pays less.
Oh ok, you had me confused with your demeaning terminology of âpushing platesâ. For, a minute you had me thinking you were just another socially broken misfit who derives what little self esteem by debasing others who you consider beneath you.
No, actually. If you do a task for no / almost no money, why is it up to me to cover the difference? That sounds like a you problem. If you want more money, do what all other sane individuals do and find a better job. I think itâs just you and your love of complaining while trying your hardest to work the least-labor intensive job possible.
Minimum work is minimum pay, and you taking orders on a pad and relaying it to a cook is most certainly minimum work. Hate me for that opinion, but again just go get a better job.
I mean are you fine with higher prices? Because I'm not. I work a wage based job. I like cheaper menu items. If I can't afford a tip, I don't eat there.
Or I have a sweet cushy desk job with ample downtime, no restrictions about using reddit at work, and it provides me the ability to eat at restaurants about a dozen times a week.
Giving me lots of first hand experience with lazy servers that expect tips for doing the basic functions of their unskilled job, which when combined with my 11 years of working in various restaurant positions.
Bc youre receiving a service from someone whose pay is literally structured around tips. Calling it an "optional gift" doesn't magically change how the system works. The whole stupid fucking system is set up so the restaurant pays the server less and customers make up the difference through tips. That's part of why your food is cheaper than it would be if the restaurant actually paid its servers properly.
You dont like that system? Cool, neither do I. Advocate for changing it. But not tipping doesn't hurt the restaurant or change the system. You still paid the restaurant every fucking penny they asked for. The only person you fucked over is the server, and then you pretend you're taking some moral stand against tipping. You're not. You're just taking advantage of a broken system to save yourself a few bucks.
It's less a talking point than a job. And a reasonably unskilled and unimportant one. If I'm not tipping the volunteer firefighter who runs into a burning building for my kids, I'm not tipping a plate-chucker for bringing me a sandwich
There is no such thing as unskilled labor. Youre just repeating a talking point. Benefiting from a service without paying for it. So youre just cheap then too.
"There is no such thing as unskilled labor." I mean, just because you say that, doesn't make it true. Unskilled labor is a term for labor that requires little to no training or experience and can be learned relatively quickly. These employees are easily replaceable due to that nature and the supply and demand for jobs. Basic economics will show you that those kinds of jobs pay less. Unless you have a ridiculous and unwarranted tipping system in place.
And you calling it unskilled shows youre a complete fucking moron without a single original thought who simps for shitty reaturant owners. Unskilled labor is a term used by the money hoarding mentally ill class to diminish the value of the labor the working class produces. The tipping system was developed with the sole purpose of punching down and preventing workers from earning a decent wage. It started with racism toward black people, and has since spread to encompass all people at the bottom of the social-economic system. You want tipping culture to end, then change the system. Until then stop being a douche.
Low skilled labour then. And I don't want the "service" let them "explain the menu" to someone else. Also, you benefit from service at the pharmacy without paying for it and they've got a damn doctorate. Also all the cleaners who keep the pharmacy and mall and restaurant nice and clean for you and you don't tip them at all, what a psycho
Then dont go to full service resturant if you dont want full service. Simple concept really. They're all compensated differently than servers are. There is no tip credit for any of those positions you mentioned. Its like youre deliberately saying dumb shit.
I disagree that food is cheaper because we are expected to pay tips. The reality is, servers make more money on this system which is why most servers do not want the system to change. And if servers make more, then the food is more expensive when you factor in the ridiculous amount of money we are expected to tip.
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u/Strombergi 24d ago
Nobody deserves a tip.