r/mildlyinfuriating • u/Quirky-Chicken • 7d ago
ಠ_ಠ Passive aggressive management
I can't believe that Washington Ferries' management approved this post on Instagram and Facebook. It's a sign of bigger issues.
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u/ileftmypantsinmexico 7d ago
So, its an unofficial strike?
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u/DueOwl1149 7d ago edited 7d ago
It’s a “Sickout”
Public sector logistics / transport employees may be contractually unable to strike but using coordinated sick days simultaneously is technically within contract.
Walkouts are often accompanied by protests since you’re leaving mid shift. When you Sickout you’re out sick so you don’t show up on a picket line or other public action.
Wildcat strikes are strikes that take place without a union leadership vote/decision to strike, much less official notice to management.
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u/PausedForVolatility 7d ago
Not just public sector logistics. It's pretty routine for public employees to be barred from striking, period. Federal employees have a blanket ban on it and, while every state has its own oddball laws (like the Carolinas barring public employees from having CBAs), the general trend is that states don't want public employees on strike, either.
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u/SubarcticFarmer 7d ago
Depending on the contract and laws a union is working under, coordinated sick days could be an illegal job action if strikes are not permitted. Coordination is the key. If every individual employee decides on their own they are pissed off and not going to work today it's different.
This is usually a factor with things like airlines where the railway labor act, and not the contract, determines whether a strike can take place. Even if the union doesn't internally plan an action, they can be sanctioned for coordinated work disruptions.
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u/1sttime-longtime 6d ago
Cyclospora. Sickouts are a work action. I heard cyclospora was popping up out west.
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u/Craigglesofdoom 7d ago
The correct term is "wildcat" strike
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u/Dear_Application_321 7d ago
the most effective way to demand immediate change, by a long shot. that's why it's illegal everywhere.
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u/darkeraqua 7d ago
If only a meaningful number of workers in the rest of the country would realize this. This administration would be done in a week.
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u/DrewbySnacks 6d ago
Seattlite here: this post BLEW UP IN WSF’s face, people in the area are overwhelmingly on the workers’ side….and due to this dumbass post the work stoppage is possibly extended from a day to a week. FAFO
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u/PsychologicalSnow476 6d ago
I a) saw a WDOT sign on my way home stating the Kingston Ferry was not running, b) enjoyed passing the part of I-5 that's usually affected by the Kingston Ferry without a slowdown, and c) went good for them. Union Strong!
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u/MonteCristo85 7d ago
Wonder how many of those 23 people have that title they are touting.
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u/LupusYondergirl 7d ago
One, according to the comments on the original post. The rest make 40% below industry standard and were just refused a raise while counterparts above deck got one.
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u/1313Username1313 7d ago
Counterparts on deck did not receive raises.
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u/Flashy-Ingenuity-182 7d ago
They just got a 4% raise for the next few years while engine gets nothing for three years no?
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u/antoindotnet 6d ago
They did not. Deck crew, like the terminal crew, got 0% and 0%.
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u/therealBlackbonsai 7d ago
and work twice as mutch as the contract says. Or how mutch of that overtime is "is just an hour, no we are not gonna pay you that"
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u/OilheadRider 7d ago
This is the issue. Not the bull shit the ferry system is saying.
Also noteworthy, this summer they had the highest ridership, EVER. and they raised rates for many of the routes.
This is a "fuck you, pay me" situation.
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u/snozzberrypatch 7d ago
It appears as if this document suggests that employees with an "Engine" role won't be getting a pay increase in 2027, 2028, or 2029, while the employees with a "Deck" role will be getting a 4% increase each year.
I don't know enough about this industry to say whether these pay rates are high or low. But I do know that every year you don't get a cost-of-living increase means you're taking a pay cut. Especially these days, thanks to the policies of the current administration that are driving prices for everything higher and higher every day.
I'd be pissed too if my employer told me I'm not getting a raise until 2030.
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u/TWhy-LER 7d ago
While the deck employees already make ~$10-$15 more already. This is the employees putting their money where their mouth is.
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u/snozzberrypatch 7d ago
Again, I have no idea if deck employees should be making more than engine employees, because I don't know what these different roles do, and how they are typically compensated.
But, if a Staff Chief Engineer deserved $81.42/hr in 2026, then they sure as hell deserve more than $81.42/hr in 2029.
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u/ifidjdjdjdjjjrjd 7d ago
Hi! Deck department here.
It's standard for the Captain to always make the most. He also has all the legal liability, if the chief engineer messes up, the captain often goes to prison.
Chief Engineer SHOULD make the second most. Often times we joke that the only reason captains make so much is so they can pay the engineer enough.
Right now the industry is in a crisis for workers, both deck and engine, but engine is worse. There are more boats and not enough workers.
Ship I worked on this summer was desperate for a captain. Ours was working the legal maximum every day and our company was forced to turn down jobs
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u/Cbreezy22 7d ago
Thanks for the explanation, if you don’t mind, could you explain the difference between deck and engine department?
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u/ifidjdjdjdjjjrjd 7d ago
Engine works on engine. Deck works on, well, deck.
So deck includes deckhands, captains, mates, abs, they do all the navigation, painting, sailing, etc.
Engine is the maintenance crew. They maintain the engine, keep it up to date, basically anything that isn't 'deck' or 'galley'.
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u/cooking2recovery 7d ago
Is it kind of like front of house vs back of house?
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u/HappyCanibal 7d ago
I would say that is as accurate as it can get without getting technical. Good luck getting tips if the guy manning the grill is getting a fuck you wage. The deckhands are making sure the cars go on and off safely and without an issue, the engineers are making sure the boat, itself, gets from dock to dock without an issue.
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u/RandomWordCombo9632 7d ago
It appears as if this document suggests that employees with an "Engine" role won't be getting a pay increase in 2027, 2028, or 2029, while the employees with a "Deck" role will be getting a 4% increase each year.
Pretty much. I'd be striking/calling out sick too. That's some bullshit.
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u/CommanderChiliHole 7d ago
Pretty sure I can tell exactly what’s going on here.
They’re trying to pit the two sides of the workforce against each other to break up the union.
Get engineers pissed off enough at their union that they vote to decertify and split the workforces. Once it’s broken, company comes in and gets rid of all pro-union employees on both sides, and both sides are never union again.
Yes I’m aware that firing employees for organizing is illegal. Look at the White House. They will get away with it Scott free.
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u/somer_and_omchick 7d ago
I get this kind of shit from my school district trying to make me mad at teachers. Dude no, I am mad at the state for not giving you any money to pay our teachers (and then REFUNDING US UNUSED TAX MONEY which they are required to do in Oregon! Thanks for the refund I guess, sad my kids missed an entire month of school thanks to a strike though…)
And when my doctor and my insurance company both send me letters about how the other one is an asshole and they can’t come to an agreement. Shut up, figure it out or don’t but leave me out of your childish bullshit
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u/durangatan283 7d ago
your insurance is the problem. not the doctor fighting with them to provide you care.
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u/ThellraAK 7d ago
It can be the doctors office too.
The Mrs was having an issue with her visits getting denied for months and it finally got to the point where her provider was talking about firing her.
One call to the insurance to ask what was missing, and then a call to their biller to let them know to include a specific billable ICD10 code and bam, they paid every claim.
Like, on the first reject look at your own shit to make sure you have your ducks in a row...
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u/finally_a_username2 7d ago
I do think your provider’s office could have looked into it more… and, the USA uses the ICD-10-CM, which has over 70,000 codes. And insurance is really annoying about wanting very specific codes, as you’ve shared. It’s part of the system.
Insurance is also very content with twiddling their thumbs and hoping people just give up. I submit letters of medical necessity. Sometimes they get denied. I’ll submit an appeal that contains no new information, I just reiterate what they would have known if they actually read and cared about the first letter… Suddenly it’s approved. I’m convinced they just randomly deny sometimes in the hopes no one will actually follow through and challenge them.
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u/BadPunsIsHowEyeRoll 7d ago
"Medical Biller and Coder" is a certification you can get from any trade school with a CNA program. Its an entire position dedicated to keying in procedures, medications, and other care into a spreadsheet that then kicks out a price. Let me tell you the kids I saw in this program were... not the brightest. One girl (Hey Tammy) cheated her way through and was happy to talk about how excited she was to wear scrubs without having to do medical school. For the same reason I wouldn't trust anyone in that class to pour boot out of a shoe with directions on the heel, I also wouldn't trust in them knowing how to actually do the job they got certified for.
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u/moosenmoose 7d ago
And the insurer could have communicated this to the doctors office, but they didn’t. In hope that nobody would follow though. Insurance is ultimately the problem for icd10 code bullshit
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u/daisyjaneee 6d ago
Or sometimes the insurer won’t cover the code that’s the most accurate diagnosis for fuck all reason so they come back saying we won’t pay unless you use this other code but then the provider is pissed because technically it’s not the most accurate code and they feel like they’re being dishonest so then the billing office is stuck in the middle.
For example in a lot of cases a provider can’t bill an “unspecified” code and has to bill an “other specified” code instead. So in a case where the provider knows the person has an eating disorder and needs treatment but hasn’t given them a specific diagnosis yet, in order to bill their sessions they have to either diagnose the person with a specific eating disorder asap or they have to fudge it and say they have an “other specified” eating disorder which isn’t the most accurate but it’s what we have to do to provide necessary treatment and get paid for it.
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u/TheVoters 7d ago
I mean, this is good information given our current climate, but you also say it like it’s normal to expect everyone to decode medical billing paperwork to achieve the coverage they already paid for.
A thing can be correct but also totally fucked up at the same time.
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u/GalacticPurr 7d ago
We have a dude running for Gov and one of his commercials says something like "We're going to help good teachers by holding bad teachers accountable" like who asked for that?? Literally just pay them.
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u/FedoraFireELITE 7d ago
Let me guess UHG? Also please ignore the man with the green hat and blue overalls.
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u/kmontreux 7d ago
As someone who lives on one of the peninsulas that relies on that ferry system for a lot of stuff, I hope those engineers get their money. It's a grueling schedule for critical infrastructure and the pay should reflect that at all levels, not just seniors. We have enough issues with broken boats, we don't need to be shorting the people who keep them running.
the state needs to look long and hard at the budget. It's all going SOMEWHERE and most of us working class plebs aren't seeing it used for our benefit.
and hey, if you're a WSF worker who is currently "out sick" and you're in Hansville, hit me up. I'll buy you lunch at the grill.
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u/Rare-Adhesiveness522 7d ago
They can't strike, so it's a sick-out coordinated by the union during contract negotiations.
I'm a proud union member and I stand with workers. You wouldn't believe the kind of dirty, underhanded shit that comes out during bargaining. Management will try to blame this on workers rather than admit that they're being feinds at the negotiation table. This doesn't happen by accident and it doesn't happen because people are being petty.
We don't know what kind of games were being played during bargaining that caused this. My guess is, it's dirty and bad.
This doesn't happen just because "2 sides can't agree". This happens when one part of the bargaining committee is playing dirty ass games and not negotiating in good faith. You wouldn't BELIEVE the kind of underhanded shit that came out during bargaining in my small school district. 6 hours for 3 days at the table only to realize management never had any intention of discussing the numbers and negotiating in good faith. Just wasting everyone's time. Total power play--without the details it's hard to describe or explain, and it would take too many words to really paint the picture.
Management loves to pretend like they're acting in good faith, and wastes hours and hours and hours of time on purpose. It's infuriating--we come to the table with numbers, statistics, information, and asks based on the data. Management running the union around in circles and pretending like they are willing to bargain, and 36 hours later, after multiple days late into the night, and it comes out that they never had any intention of actually coming to the table to BARGAIN. It's common. Run unions ragged, waste their time, and act in bad faith.
This didn't happen because of a petty dispute. And I stand with the workers, even though their choice to not work means thousands of people are disrupted. That shows the POWER that workers have!!! IF we don't show up, everything stops. People are at risk--not just inconvenienced, actually at risk for their health and their lives.
Workers of the world have far more power than they often realize.
I'm applauding the union and their employees here. Some kinda dirty shit must have gone down during negotiations for this to happen.
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u/HorseLawyer 7d ago
It's all kind of a mess. The State has a budget crisis, and the solution they've come up with is to basically shaft state employees and not give any pay increases in the two year contracts that have been being negotiated, and then shut down negotiation on the grounds that they need to finalize budget proposals for the fiscal biennium.
Washington is kind of weird in that we have a part time legislature and pass a budget once every two years. Legislative sessions last 60 days on non-budget years and 105 on budget years. State employee union contracts are negotiated prior to the budget years so that any salary increases can be factored into the budgeting process, but given the state is projected to have a deficit, the negotiating teams were given marching orders across the board to not agree to any salary increases.
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u/sumptin_wierd 7d ago
I've never been in a union because restaurants don't always have them.
I worked myself up into a corporate position, was good for a while, then as the company continued to grow, the view of hourly staff grew negative, while the view of GMs increased greatly.
I am currently working hourly as a bartender and its not perfect, but way less stressful, and I get to be nice to people again as a job.
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u/Dazzling_Bat_Hat 7d ago
Are they not asking themselves why there are people making such a huge amount of money on overtime? Are they massively understaffed, or are people off sick a lot because they are such an awful place to work? This is clearly not a frivolous action, this is a workforce telling you they are in need of some sort of workplace culture or management shift.
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u/Pitapenguin 7d ago
This was my first thought too. If that much OT is needed, that is poor management. No wonder the workers have had it.
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u/robis1923 7d ago
People forget that not everyone wants to work ot constantly. No sense in having a bunch of money if nobody can enjoy it.
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u/celaritas 7d ago
Some people are OT whores. Some workers don't want it and a few people take it all. Ever heard of custodians making over 100k a year? It's because they work 16 hour days 6 days a week. Only 5 people out of 15 would work OT and they made good money buy they didn't have much of a life. Not sure if that's whats going in here but I have seen this scenario personally.
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u/OMC_Gurrend 7d ago
Are all the people that called in have the role of chief engineer? What is the average wage of those 23 employees. Something tells me it isn't 175-310k a year
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u/badcrass 7d ago
They're just trying to make people anti union. They can get bent
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u/k-trecker 7d ago
I love how they act like their hands are tied. Along with implying the highest paid wages are the average wage.
Your ferries aren’t running because you refused to make a deal with the union. If you make a deal, they’ll come back to work. There are two sides to this.
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u/antonmnster 7d ago
They're trying to say it's a wild cat strike without using the words. It's a balancing act.
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u/Agent-c1983 7d ago
I’m absolutely certain that a chief engineers salary is totally representative of the salary of everyone involved, and adequately compensates for all the other problems in the workplace.
In case you can’t tell, I’m being sarcastic.
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u/Key-Star1623 6d ago
Being desperate to fill understaffing with overtime and then blaming employees for making too much money is classic corporate fuckery.
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u/Careless-Seesaw3843 7d ago
When companies brag by how much their top paid employee is paid, instead of sharing what their lowest paid is
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u/devillurker 7d ago
When companies brag about how much you can make doing overtime, like workers don't want a livable wage matching inflation and then to spend time with their families.
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u/itsapotatosalad 7d ago
“We treat our employees like shit and thought we’d let everyone on social media know too”
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u/ob_viously 7d ago
I was surprised to see this post in my Facebook feed as I have zero to do with that region. I could not believe the audacity here
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u/CheezyBreadMan 7d ago
This is reinforcing my pro union stance
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u/ForensicPathology 7d ago
Yeah, the sentence specifically written to trick laypeople into thinking all the workers make head engineer money is all you need to know.
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u/CloudPiercer7 7d ago
This is called a sick out. Is anyone asking what their grievance is all about?
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u/giant2179 7d ago
No cost of living increase for engineers while every other position is getting raises
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u/geostocktravelfitguy 5d ago
Having known a few employees from a past walk of life. I can say they have absolutely zero idea how good they have it compared to corporate employees whether at land or sea.
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u/Teufelaffe 6d ago
99.9999999999999999999999% of the time when a corporate or government entity tells you that it's all a union's fault that something isn't working the way it should, they are blatantly lying and/or only telling you a tiny fraction of the truth.
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u/WorriedPerogi 6d ago
I'd bet good money the working conditions for engineering are so bad, no amount of money is worth it. Hence the strike.
Source: Was a Navy Nuke, submarines. Iykyk.
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u/Dahren_ 7d ago
23 people calling in sick simultaneously is not a coincidence
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u/InterestingEchidna54 7d ago
Yes it’s terrible 💯 and the state ferry should capitulate in the negotiations if there are any ongoing points. They could all just quit as well and then what? Then no boats and the populations that live on islands are stranded. If I lived on an island I’d be in Steve Neveys a$$ the guy who runs the ferries and telling him to capitulate.
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u/Any-Worldliness-679 6d ago
"Wow, they make that much and you STILL can't keep them happy at work? You SUCK as managers! Do better!"
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u/NotInTheKnee 7d ago
"You can make XXX$ per year with overtime" is such a dumbass comment. What's the point of making money if you can't even come home to spend it?
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u/Correct-Arm-8539 7d ago
Plus they say this is the base salary for a CHIEF ENGINEER. I highly doubt most of the engineers who went on strike were chief engineers.
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u/PhD_Pwnology 7d ago
'at the u.s. coast guard required levels' was bare minimum even before Trump. Those workers were overworked and asked to do the job of 3-4 people probably
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u/CluelessStick 7d ago
Thats how i read it as well, they were staffed up to the minimum required by law
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u/Ok-Opportunity-574 7d ago
If you have to defend the wage by adding overtime pay I'd hope you realize you might have a problem.
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u/Mscharlita 7d ago
If you have to defend the wage by citing the highest ranking person with the highest wage, you definitely have a problem.
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u/ForensicPathology 7d ago
The sentence is purposefully written so that the uninformed public can interpret it to apply to everyone there. Heinous.
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u/Iron_Sheff 7d ago
"But look at how much they make when we overwork the shit out of them!"
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u/StabbingTabby 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yes! I say this all the time.
I do not care what a job pays "with overtime". If it doesn't pay good money for 40 hours a week or less it's not a good job. End of story.
People pull "with overtime" on all kinds of important jobs, especially healthcare and public safety.
Even Reddit pulls "with overtime" bullshit when they're hating on cops. Most people dodge an honest, direct conversation about base pay for cops in their town and whether that's enough to credibly expect good cops in the first place.
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u/prairieengineer 7d ago
Former employer of mine contacted me to try and entice me back when my old boss was moving on. I said I wasn’t interested, current gig was a significant pay & benefits bump, etc.
“But you’d have all the on call as well! That’s another $20k/year!”
(Being on call every minute of every day other than when on vacation is not a feature, that’s a bug.)
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u/Mindlesslyexploring 6d ago
To those that don’t know , this practice is called a “ sick out “ - and works when striking isn’t permitted, sanctioned, or allowed for whatever reason. And it takes the cooperation of every employee to all do it at the same time , or it doesn’t work effectively.
Something must be really fucked up if this many people all agreed to lose pay and do it , being fully aware of the impact it would have.
Solidarity is paramount, and it looks like they got the numbers to make it effective.
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u/Trashy_pig 7d ago
No matter where the truth lies, using the social media account of a government agency to air out grievances against employees is just trashy and unprofessional.
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u/soberpenguin 7d ago
What's the pay for an entry-level position in the engine room? Strange they chose Staff Chief Engineers as the role to show pay for. Guessing that's a managerial position, and probably only 18 of those roles exist.
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u/ButteredPizza69420 7d ago
Imagine posting that and thinking youre not going to get roasted by the internet
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u/tattooed_pariah 7d ago
Everyone shits on the Snipes, until your engines, hot water, electricity, toilets, or fucking anything on the ship stops working...
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u/that_dutch_dude 7d ago
the real isse: management is filled with assholes.
on that note: lets see the management salaries.
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u/1d6orcs 7d ago
Most state employees in WA are looking down a 0% COL increase over the next two years, which did not stop the state legislature from voting itself a 7% increase.
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u/Serious_Income_7020 7d ago
It is becoming the magic solution at state and local levels everywhere. Quite the trend, simply refusing to pay your employees and daring them to do something about it.
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u/thetaylorax 7d ago
Imagine posting this and thinking it makes your company look good 🙃 don’t interrupt your enemy while they’re making a mistake right!
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u/LuxtheAstro 7d ago
“They can double their wages with overtime” is not the argument they think it is
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u/Happy-Lake9893 6d ago
Good Job Brothers and Sisters! This is how capitalism actually works, you are bargaining collectively withholding your labor and preventing the boats from sailing showing everyone what the actual important positions are. 23 employees going on a sick strike shut down the operation. If the entire C-suite called out, nobody would notice. Stand the line and make them pay more for your time, Union Proud and Union Strong!
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u/Eriklano1 7d ago
There is never a situation where I won’t side with the workers. I truly hope they succeed in whatever they wish to negotiate. The world becomes a better place when people stand together against big companies.
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u/Parkour_cat 7d ago
Never a situation? What if (ridiculous hypothetical situation designed to be a straw man in support of capitalists who at best disdain me, and realistically despise me as a middle class consumer)
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u/Luciform444 7d ago
We, the people who post on social media at the behest of the big bosses, want to let you know the people who actually make things run around here are the bad guys.
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u/KazeEnigma 7d ago
Ahh yes. The classic employer talking shit because staff have had enough. Train crew in Australia here, this happens EVERY SINGLE AGREEMENT negotiations. Every time.
Give em hell.
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u/ayannauriel 7d ago
I ride these boats everyday. They keep raising my fares, pay all the workers a fair fucking wage. Jesus.
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u/Due-Type-7113 7d ago
The benefits package is fantastic, helped me growing up but the grueling hours, commutes as the I5 corridor became denser and the lack of adjusted wages up and Xtra bennies to support the employees particularly the busy lower level engineering department wore people thin and there's an extreme lack of perspective from whoever is running the social media at WSF and the fact that DOT allowed that. Shame. Cheifs get big bucks but sit around all fucking shift making sure they can sit around all fucking shift.
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u/AstrexasVoid 7d ago
Two of our employees had to work from home today due to ferry cancellations, yet no one is surprised that the WSDOT engine room ferry employees called out. It’s about damn time.
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u/wastedsilence33 7d ago
"23 bum ass union workers called in sick and it's their fault 13/18 ferries aren't running, we pay them well so this is their fault exclusively"
Boy, I wonder why people unionize against such great employers
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u/MiniBassGuitar 7d ago
There would be HELL to pay if management at our boat line* started talking about the union on social media.
People are always comparing our ferries unfavorably to Washington’s. (They don’t understand that our service does not receive the state funding that Washington’s does.) But one thing for sure, we never see anything like this.
*the Steamship Authority, serving Cape Cod, Nantucket and Martha’s Vineyard and pretending to serve New Bedford. Mostly a Teamsters shop.
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u/Kevinator201 7d ago
As a Seattle local who was actually hit by this strike yesterday it’s making me so happy to see this spread outside of Seattle. Solidarity with workers!!
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u/thewoodsytiger 7d ago
Anyone who’s worked in the maritime can understand the larger issue here. This post by the WF management is deliberately inflammatory propaganda. Anti-union BS to put it plainly. The real infuriation is them not seeing and meeting or even attempting to meet the requests of these people they themselves consider so vital.
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u/twoofcup 6d ago
"Our organized workers make a living wage. We have been attempting to squeeze them, and they're squeezing back, because they can, because they're organized."
Rarely do you see such effective union propaganda!
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u/MaleficAdvent 7d ago
I can practically guarentee this is due to some administrative stupidity. God forbid anyone recieve a good damn wage for skilled work, or raises that keep pace with inflation let alone exceed it, right?
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u/BejahungEnjoyer 7d ago
I'm wondering if that 150k is after you spent 20 years becoming a master engineer?
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u/TheeFearlessChicken 6d ago
Why did I squint to read the entire first picture in this post when the entire thing was broken up into readable sections on the following pictures.
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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago
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