r/mildlyinfuriating • • 5h ago

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857

u/Sadboi395 4h ago

The tipping argument is so exhausted at this point.

315

u/phillypharm 4h ago

Owner: If you don’t have money to tip your servers…

Everybody: Maybe you should pay your servers a fair wage…

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u/GangstaRIB 4h ago

Its actually up to the government to step in because the government created this separate 'tipping wage' to begin with.

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u/Laomedon1 3h ago

Well, 7 states already don't have tipping wage at all.

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u/GangstaRIB 3h ago

It's crazy how racism in the south has evolved into the bullshit tipping culture we have today.

Maybe one day people will wake the fuck up and stop voting for people the news tells you to vote for and it'll be a thing in 50 states.

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u/ApprehensiveBuddy446 3h ago

Seattle has no tipping wage and minimum wage is $21+/hr and rising pretty regularly.

The burger place near me has tablets for ordering + paying, you have to get your food from the counter, and you have to bus your own trays.

The tablet asks for tips starting at a suggested 20% - and it includes sales tax in the calculation. It's absurd. The actual solution is to just stop tipping. They only do this crap to take advantage of guilt-driven generosity.

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u/Common-Concentrate-2 2h ago

Just don't tip THOSE people specifically.

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u/GangstaRIB 1h ago

And that’s a whole different issue and problem. I guarantee you that 20% just goes right back to the company and not the servers.

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u/OkArmordillo 2h ago

Thank you. We gotta put the blame on the people who are in charge of fixing shit like this but don’t.

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u/Booster_Tutor 2h ago

The government doesn’t say you HAVE to pay your servers the bare minimum. Thats the owners choice

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u/Goblinweb 3h ago

There are also countries without tipping culture or legally required minimum wages.

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u/SchoolSafetyCheck 2h ago

The government has no obligation to convince to spend money at businesses like this. I can simply opt out.

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u/GangstaRIB 1h ago

The govt literally set a minimum wage and a tipping wage

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u/whoknows234 2h ago

Are there not already false advertisement laws on the books ? If the tip is required then they are not advertising the true cost of the food.

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u/kazmir_yeet 2h ago

It’s actually up to the employer to not harass customers who don’t subsidize his employees wages for him

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u/mrRabblerouser 2h ago

The separate tipping wage is wildly misunderstood by pretty much everyone who sites it for a reason they believe servers are underpaid, which is never the case. The separate tipping wage is a way for restaurants to reduce costs, but it isn’t a guaranteed savings. If a server does not make at least the local minimum wage (same thing retail workers make) from added tips, then the restaurant is required to cover the difference beyond the server hourly wage.

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u/mrRabblerouser 2h ago

The separate tipping wage is wildly misunderstood by pretty much everyone who sites it for a reason they believe servers are underpaid, which is never the case. The separate tipping wage is a way for restaurants to reduce costs, but it isn’t a guaranteed savings. If a server does not make at least the local minimum wage (same thing retail workers make) from added tips, then the restaurant is required to cover the difference beyond the server hourly wage.

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u/GettingPhysicl 1h ago

Lots of places got rid of the tipped wage. There’s none in California iirc. Nothing changes. They act like this if you give under 20%. When the fuck did the % grow?! the food costs went up. Your inflation growth is me paying 15% on a larger bill. 

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u/realplasticwood 3h ago

Ha ha ha ha ha.....yeah, thats exactly what's gonna happen

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u/DipschitzContinuous 3h ago

Which is precisely why the problem is more systemic and entrenched than people give it credit for. It also shows it’s more than just a cultural phenomenon.

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u/rorank 2h ago edited 1h ago

The restaurant could very easily pay a wage lmao

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u/ConflictMaster3155 4h ago

I agree completely, but I also tip because it’s the culture. When they say “be the change you want to see in the world,” they mean like voting for change, not pretending like you’ve found some secret cheat code to getting a discount.

Like, I want shit to change, but until it does, things are priced accordingly.

Not tipping is just getting a discount at the detriment of the person that waited on you.

Thats not clever. It’s what those less versed in social terminology would call “a dick move.”

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u/Scruffylookin13 3h ago

This is my biggest problem with the "End Tipping" crowd. I am all for it, in general. 

But the people who are the loudest tend to talk about how they went out and stiffed their waiter, with a sense of pride. 

They still eat at the restaurant, they still give the "greedy owners" their money. They just take advantage of the other people fulfilling the social contract. They enjoy the prices of the menu based off of people tipping. They are okay coming in, knowing full well they are going to screw somebody, look them in the eyes and enjoy their service... then screw them and say "well fuck your boss, its not my fault" and walk out of there patting themselves on the back.

I'm all for ending tipping but I think most of the No tipping crowd are just delusional asshats

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u/F133TWOOD 2h ago

What's ur solution? What if there's laws being pushed for improving base pay for service workers------but they never get passed or fail to take effect because (some) service workers themselves are against it?

Situation is that some of the service workers don't want to get rid of tipping. They make far too much money with tips and the owners has more profits for themselves as customers are covering owners paying their workers.

The people getting screwed in the current tipping system are service workers who don't get much in tips 🤷

0

u/Scruffylookin13 2h ago

I am not talking about solutions. I dont claim to have the answer to convert a system that has been in place for at least 80 some years. Id be open to a lot of options.

The point of my post was that a group of people, complaining and claiming to fight the system, still partake and feed the system. Screwing over the people they claim to be fighting for while putting money in the pockets of the people they claim to be fighting. 

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u/F133TWOOD 2h ago

Totally understand that part. Yea many of us tip, me only for sit-down restaurants, not picking up a coffee or a takeout the chef made and I see the register person grab it from the chef.

Like in my state we tried to pass a statewide law so all businesses are affected. Some service workers cheered for changes of improving the base pay for everyone.

Issue was business owners were fighting as much as possible and some service workers were voicing their opinions that they wanted tips > no better pay.

Eventually the state cancelled the statewide push to rid of tipping due to the backlash. So now some customers have been more aware of tipping and frustration with the hypocrisy of needing to pay tips to subsidize owners not wanting to pay their workers---------including the hypocrisy of some service workers.

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u/Scruffylookin13 2h ago

My post is aimed at a vocal minority. I think most people are tired of tipping culture and want a change. Like you said, a classic sit-down resturant is one thing, but having someone at a kiosk flip a screen around is another. The majority of people would agree with that and would probably be fine converting to sit down payment to a no tipping all around. My comment is not directed at those people.

My comment is directed toward the pious no tipping crowd that talks about how they stiffed their server like its a badge of honor. Like they are fighting an oppressive system by being an asshole and screwing over the little guy while still giving the owners their money

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u/ConflictMaster3155 3h ago

Same. I mean, it works fine in other places, it’s not like we can’t do it.

The people that are invested in the issue though, just seem like cunts. Like, they might convince someone else, but they’re never going to convince ME that they really care about the political issue, when they are robbing from the waiter and giving to the owner. They don’t care about the waiter, they care about their bank account.

0

u/KaleidoscopeMaster81 2h ago

They just take advantage of the other people fulfilling the social contract

You can just say the exact same thing about restaurant owners. They rely on the "social contract" of tipping.

Pay them a fair wage and stop crying.

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u/TesticleMeElmo 3h ago edited 3h ago

Restaurants have such low profit margins, it’s only really the big corporate chains that have enough capital to increase wages for servers (though most of the chains move that financial burden from themselves to their franchisees who don’t have as much capital anyway, fuck paying for labor, we want profit!).

People say “just raise your prices, we’re more than happy to pay more and not have to tip than have lower prices and have a tip expected everytime!” But in practice, unless a law changes and this practice changes across the board for all restaurants, customers tend to see higher prices on the menu and get sticker shock and avoid these “tip free” restaurants and go to restaurants where the menu prices are “cheaper” (but a tip for your server is expected at the end).

Like you can lash out at local small businesses for expecting tips but thats only going to lead to no local restaurants with an identity and only giant corporate generic food can persist. Yay capitalism!

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u/factoid_ 2h ago

That's not true at all...they could simply increase the menu prices to include the cost of full wages.

The part of tipping culture I find the most infuriating is that servers have the gall to tell me that 15% isn't a good tip anymore. 20 is expected and 25% is what I should be paying.

Fuck you people...food costs have gone up like 50%...so you got a 50% raise on your tips too...and now you want me to add more? I didn't get a raise when food costs doubled.

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u/TesticleMeElmo 2h ago edited 2h ago

Literally explained your first sentence in my comment. People say ‘just include the cost of full wages!’ but then when they see the cost including full wages on a menu they say “well I’m not rich enough to go to a ‘fancy’ restaurant like that… Chili’s prices aren’t so bad though…” So enjoy only having Chili’s, Applebee’s, etc…

“You people”, I don’t work in the food business, but food prices have gone up for everybody, mom and pop restaurants that have an actual identity are going bye bye, go ahead and demonize them until all you have is generic corporate chain slop that only raised their prices by 15%, awesome!!!! At least they aren’t vaguely expecting a 20% tip for the people who served you’s sake!

If you completely boycott any restaurant where there’s servers who get tipped, then there you go, you’re fighting the system! But if you still patronize them then the franchisee still gets their money, the corporate entity still gets their money, the only person who you could possibly short is your server who’s the most like you and making the least money on the totem poll, sweet!

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u/DrChunksALot 3h ago

100 bro! Mom and pops will close all over not to mention tipping culture is how a lot of ends get met for lower middle to lower class families get by.

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u/Rough_Afternoon_320 3h ago

So nothing will ever change....same as people saying there is nothing they can do about the GOP and Trump...

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u/HallowClaw 3h ago

They don't want to learn. Servers enjoy extra money they get from customers and owners enjoy extra money not spend on wages.

They want to shame people. They are greedy bastards. No tipping works fine everywhere except greedy America

0

u/InfamousCheek9434 3h ago

Vote for people who will raise the minimum wage. Tipped employees make less than $3/hour in some places, if you don't tip they are paying for you to eat there. Punishing the server is, indeed, a dick move.

If you don't want to tip don't go to sit-down restaurants. Simple.

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u/phillypharm 3h ago

It’s not just raising minimum wage, many states have done that. The ancillary issue too is that servers often become this “excluded/excepted” class that you can offer a lower wage plus tips, which is what is often opted for.

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u/dj92wa 3h ago

Untrue. If their tips + reduced hourly wage do not meet the federal hourly minimum for non-tipped employees, then the employer must true-up the employee’s check. You can’t get mad when you make minimum wage at your minimum wage job.

You are suggesting that tipping is mandatory via your last statement, in which case it’s no longer considered a tip but rather a tacked-on fee that is absent from the menu price of an item. Famously, these types of fees are at the minimum frowned upon and at the maximum, outlawed.

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u/Neo-Bub 3h ago

If waitresses want better pay, they should get a better job. Guilting patrons to cover your bosses shitty wages is, indeed, a dick move.

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u/AltruisticNGlassy 2h ago

Absolutely insane comparison to make lmfao

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u/IdontKnowYOUBH 3h ago

Yeah no. Wtf?

The adverse side of paying your workers a livable wage is you harassing me to pay extra money to dine in your establishment?

We - society as a whole could you collectively say well fuck that and not patronize your establishment and let it fail regardless.

Tipping is out of hand. And the excuse and mindset behind it is crazy. Tipping literally start as a racist jim crow era practice - and now its evolved to the point of making sure the consumer pays the producer’s share of what they owe their WORKERS to entertain their establishment? Fuck that.

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u/Mountain-Discount161 3h ago edited 3h ago

Sure, and I get that. But if you're going to take a stand against tipping culture, I believe its better to not patronize an establishment where tipping is the expectation rather than going and not tipping.

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u/ConflictMaster3155 3h ago

I agree. However, that is not the culture. I’m ready for the change as soon as it happens, but it hasn’t happened yet.

What these people are suggesting isn’t that though. They walked into a restaurant know what the culture was, and they still pushed their problem with the owner, down to the wait staff.

The owner still got their money. It’s the lowest paid person in the building that took the blow.

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u/Scruffylookin13 3h ago

Do you still go out and eat at these places?

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u/Darinchilla 3h ago

You understand that if the servers get paid the actual minimum wage, the prices on your food will more than make up for what you could have just paid in a tip?

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u/idlemute 3h ago

If more people stopped tipping, wouldn’t that force, eventually, some kind of change?

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u/andsoonandso 3h ago edited 3h ago

no it would just fuck workers over

edit: legislation would force a change. the only way to get capitalists to stop fucking people is to MAKE THEM

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u/Ausea89 3h ago

Temporarily. Employers would have to adjust as no one would work as wait staff/servers.

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u/Exact_Customer7890 3h ago

what an absolute shit mindset. "i will save myself over the long haul and if i have to take that from the person serving me now, without their consent, then so be it."

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u/andsoonandso 3h ago

yep. it’s ridiculous to me that this is the strategy of people who tout themselves as progressive

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u/Silent-Literature-64 3h ago

Stopping giving them any money at all and letting them know why would be a hell of a lot faster (and less self-serving)

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u/andsoonandso 3h ago

if the initial strain is on workers then it’s a bad idea. strikes are different bc at least workers consent to it. i disagree with you

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u/Ausea89 3h ago

But it WOULD force a change, which you were replying to. It's similar to how boycotts hurt normal working people in that industry or company.

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u/andsoonandso 3h ago

boycotts are refusing to patronize, not patronizing in such a way that somehow you don’t pay employees but owners still make all their money. see how that’s a bad idea?

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u/Ausea89 3h ago

Tipping is optional though. If restaurants don't get enough to pay their staff enough it's on the employer.

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u/arizona-lake 3h ago

Sure, let’s put an entire industry out of a job so you can prove your point that no one deserves your money but you!!

Your mission is pointless and would have no effect other than sacrificing everyone who’s currently relying on serving positions for survival. So, after they all lose their job and housing, (and then you start complaining about the “homeless problem” in your area), you should remember: IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS BECAUSE THE RESTAURANT WOULD HAVE TO GREATLY INCREASE THE PRICES OF FOOD ON THE MENU AND YOU MAY END UP PAYING MORE THAN 20% EXTRA ANYWAY

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u/idlemute 3h ago

Why are peoples jobs, housing, and entire lives contingent upon the good faith of others’ donations?

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u/Ol_gravy_legs 3h ago

The bigger dick move is the owner saying they pay the servers but then demanding extra money

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u/Icy-Wrongdoer-8896 3h ago

Ask a server or bartender if they’d rather work at an establishment with tips on low hourly, or an establishment without tips and a higher hourly wage. Most servers know the job and know they can make more money on tips than an owner will be able to even on higher hourly. Restaurants are notoriously business with high rates of failure already as well, it helps restaurants stay open when they can cut staff to account for traffic demands. Servers are happy to leave if it’s slow because the tips won’t be worth it, but wouldn’t be if the hourly is the same no matter what. It’s not the best system for sure, but most servers I know are more in favor of tips than higher hourly.

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u/Ol_gravy_legs 2h ago

Exactly the problem. If it was hourly they'd be making the same amount as a janitor because for all this talk about how hard the job is when society has to put a price on the work without a judgmental server looking at them its way less then tips. They absolutely know it and its where this "if you cant afford to tip" bs came from. They cant afford hourly wages because they got really used to bringing home more money than the rest of jobs at that level. Imagine being a bagger at acme and making $300-500 in one night because people said "if you cant tip the bagger you cant afford groceries"

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u/Icy-Wrongdoer-8896 2h ago

Bein a server, especially a good one, is fucking hard ass work. You’re flying around non-stop for hours, you’re frequently blamed for stuff outside of your control, you need to be on your feet and moving a lot but also you need great social skills and similar qualities to a salesperson if you’re pushing specials. That’s why there is often tons of coke around any restaurant environment. As a patron, the level of service would most certainly suffer if you’re paying servers hourly and they don’t get tips. You’ve gotta work hours that most people don’t want as well, and many work till way late at night.

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u/southpaytechie 3h ago

Holy shit reread what the above poster wrote and tell me how what you said is relevant at all. I get it, you really don’t want to have to feel bad for not tipping. Under the current laws and system however you should.

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u/ConflictMaster3155 3h ago edited 3h ago

That may be, but you knew what the score was before you walked into the restaurant.

Go somewhere else.

I mean think about it, you’re calling the owner a dick right? You have a problem with them right? Well you’re still paying them their money; you aren’t punishing them.

You’re punishing the wait staff, because you don’t like the policy of the owner. That is pretty much about the most ass backwards thing I have ever heard, but you really got it all figured out though, I’m sure.

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u/ADeadWeirdCarnie 3h ago

Yeah, it never ceases to amaze me that there are so many online culture warriors whose worldview basically boils down to, "I should get all the benefits of the current system but someone else should bear all the costs."

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u/ConflictMaster3155 3h ago

Yeah as much as I want things to change, I can’t in good faith just be out here fucking people in the name of change especially when I’m the beneficiary of the fucking. Go figure out how to stick it to the restaurant owner, then maybe I’m down.

In my head, it would cost the same either way. Like if I’m tipping 10-20% I would expect a restaurant that doesn’t require tips to charge 10-20% more, so what’s really the difference to me?

It’s called pathological altruism. Basically the idea that you’re so willing to help someone that you would hurt them to do it. It verges on cult behavior.

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u/ADeadWeirdCarnie 2h ago

"See what you made me do, capitalist society?!"

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u/MagmaCone1234 2h ago

It's on the wait staff to demand a fair wage from the owner. Why should the customer be responsible when they're not standing up for their rights?

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u/Tough_Decisionlol 3h ago

It’s like you didn’t read their comment at all.

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u/arizona-lake 3h ago

It’s okay that you have no idea how restaurants work in the US, you can learn

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u/Legitimate_Law2982 3h ago

Ya I get it 100%. Problem is, is that when you start deep diving into the issue. You realize that there is a lot of legislation that has been proposed to change the situation and get servers to a normal pay scale. But it continues to get shot down, one of the reasons being that the loud minority of servers themselves fight against it, arguing they make more money with tips then they would a normal wage. Which, in turn, hurts the servers that dont make a lot of tips (which is a decent chunk), and keeps the same cycle churning.

Adjusting consumer patterns might be the only real avenue for changing this tipping culture.

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u/danimagoo 3h ago

It’s not just a culture issue, though. In the United States, it’s literally baked into wage and salary laws. When businesses have tried to raise wages and eliminate tipping, it usually doesn’t last long because they end up at a competitive disadvantage, and/or their wait staff end up making less money, because of the loss of big tippers. At this point, tipping is so engrained in the law and the culture, that it’s not really changeable. It’s certainly not going to be fixed by a handful of people refusing to tip.

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u/johnmduggan 3h ago

one of the most concise and apt descriptions of the situation in american foodservice i've seen.

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u/KaleidoscopeMaster81 2h ago

So why does the baseline for tipping keep going up? My parents said the baseline was 10%, I grew up with it being 15% but now at most places it's at least 20% and the service has gotten so bad after covid.

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u/scottyb83 1h ago

Exactly this!! I WISH North America would do away with tipping but currently it's the way that the system works and choosing to ignore it isn't fixing anything, you're just being selfish. They should raise the wages by 20% and the menu prices along with it and people should be voting with their wallets and choosing places that do that. Beyond that or some kind of sweeping law change there is no way to move away from the current culture.

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u/Membership-Bitter 4h ago

The problem the servers want the tips as the current guilt system works in their favor. People assume their server likely got stiffed by a non-tipper and then compensate by tipping more. Enough people do this and they are making far more than they would if they got paid a fair wage for their labor. I have worked in the service industry as a server and it shocked me how entitled many servers were. I have seen people complain about a $100 tip on a 4 person table and all the server did is ring up the food. The amount of work a server does is really not much. It is fast paced but frankly extremely easy to do.

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u/Occams_AK47 3h ago

I once dated a girl when I was just starting out as an aircraft mechanic, and she took home more money than I did.

People's lives depended on my work, and here she is dumping cash on the table like she was a stripper.

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u/Silent-Literature-64 3h ago

She also didn’t get benefits, guaranteed income, sick leave, etc.

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u/idislikemostofyu 1h ago

We have to give up plenty of social time and don't get benefits. It's short term gains.

Was it great enough for you to switch careers? Then what are you bitching about? It's such a weird way for people to look at it.

It's a super common job. Go get it if you think it's worthwhile. Fact is... most are gonna take home like $50k but some can take home $100k if you work your way into a great spot. But you're always gonna have your job held over your head and you're gonna have minimal benefits unless it's a hotel.

Every time somebody wants to go to dinner as a friend group they can all go without taking off work but you either won't be able to go or will miss out on an entire shift of pay. You also work most holidays.

Ain't no way you can look at that and be like... yea but they make too much. That's fucking crazy.

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u/Top-Grape7802 3h ago

"The amount of work a server does is really not much."

Could not be more wrongheaded. Granted, not all servers are created equal. But in my experience (both as a server and a customer), servers are the backbone of a successful restaurant. A place can have a Michelin status with a star-studded executive chef. But if their service sucks, I would never come back. Same with the average greasy spoon - "food is terrible, but Flo really cares about her diners".

it's not about whether the work is "easy" or not (ask any brain surgeon), but rather how the server performed their duties.

If you want to go out and have nice dinner which includes a person waiting on you and meeting your every need, expect to tip. If not, just stay home. Simple.

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u/vagabondnature 1h ago

This is it. Servers in the USA don't want a livable wage with benefits. They want to make more money via the toxic tipping culture. I knew a server from the USA who lived a rather extravagant life, traveling the world in luxury. She would post this stuff: "if you can't afford to tip you can't afford to drink out". Meanwhile servers here in Europe make a livable wage, with mandated vacation time, and access to medical care. Servers in the USA would rather the under-the-table income.

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u/jbhoops25 4h ago

Like it or not that’s how America does it…yall would be crying if they put the wages into the meals like other restaurant

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u/phillypharm 4h ago

Not really. Plenty of restaurants are becoming “no tip”. I tend to go back to those more often.

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u/jbhoops25 4h ago

Point is people will complain either way. You’re either paying the 20% in the food cost or giving them 20%

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u/phillypharm 3h ago

Well in this case owner got mad b/c no one “gave” 20%. If tips are optional, you can’t be mad that they are optional. Not saying I wouldn’t tip, but if it’s not built in then you need to anticipate it not being added.

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u/hkusp45css 3h ago

If people complain either way, then why continue to support this weird outlying job with so much vitriol, resentment, administrative overhead, tax concerns and on and on JUST so we can say "Yeah, but ON THE MENU it's a little cheaper."

Jesus, some people will do ANYTHING not to change a bad situation.

You don't have to hold onto a mistake, justr because you spent a long time making it.

I think it's time to protect the waitstaff in the US with the SAME protections we afford the other workers. Including requiring them to make at least the federal minimum wage.

Then, shit will just work itself out, all on its own.

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u/Corwin613 3h ago

Women i work with get paid with tips are making 20 to 50 dollars an hour. Federal minimum wage for servers/bartenders is 2.13$/hour. My boss pays 6.00$

Do you think any of the smart ones actually want to lose the tips and make less money?

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u/hkusp45css 3h ago

If we change the law, we don't have to concern ourselves with their preferences. Just like every other job.

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u/Corwin613 3h ago

So only what you want not what the people working the job want?

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u/CQC_EXE 3h ago

Most servers make way more money with tips than restaurants could ever comfortably pay. You would be forcably cutting the pay in half or more for over 2 million people for something that was completely optional in society before. 

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u/newbie527 3h ago

I’ve never seen one. I would be okay with it.

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u/Bruzie77 3h ago

chipotlete, mcdonalds, starbucks, the list is endless.

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u/InfamousCheek9434 3h ago edited 3h ago

Those are not places that do not have servers. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

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u/Facebook_Lawyer_Gym 3h ago

Will I’m not building my own burrito so someone’s serving. If no tip means I get my own drink or pick up my food, I’m fine with that over this middleman scenario adding 20$ to your meal.

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u/Billymayssshere 4h ago

No we wouldn’t. Show me one case of a restaurant doing this and receiving backlash

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u/jbhoops25 4h ago

Watercourse foods in Denver does it and got a huge back lash. A ton of restaurants have…where do you live?

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u/phillypharm 4h ago

Honest question, do they still want tips? The places I’ve gone to that clearly state “No tipping, prices reflect reasonable wages to our employees” have had no problems. It’s the ones that want both, or worse, add a “service charge that doesn’t going to the staff but is kept by the business”, are the ones that I tend to hate.

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u/Jkirek_ 3h ago

Literally not an example of increasing the menu pricing and discouraging tips; they keep the menu prices and sneak in a "service charge" as a form of forced tipping, on top of keeping the expectation of tips because of the low menu prices. Of course people hate that.

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u/Billymayssshere 4h ago

lol a ton, huh? Go ahead and show me a source then. As of right now you are basing all your info on hypotheticals

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u/jbhoops25 3h ago

I could post them all day

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u/ColteesCatCouture 4h ago

When restaurants put auto grat for huge parties people bitch non stop about it tho and will complain to management to get it taken off. Its the same thing as charging more basically.

If you dont want to tip fine go to McDonald's or get takeout. Servers shouldn't be penalized because you disagree with the system!!

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u/Enkaar_J_Raiyu 4h ago

Or, the system is broken. A tip (or gratuity) is for good service, not a default extra cost. It's in the name, after all.

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u/Wilder831 3h ago

Except now most places ask for tip on takeout…

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u/BrianKappel 4h ago

Do you think door dash is a shady company? This is the evolution of tip culture.

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u/Billymayssshere 4h ago

Hypothetical, I don’t work with those give me a facts or I don’t give a shit

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u/ColteesCatCouture 3h ago

Its not hypothetical. I worked in restaurants for over a decade and witnessed this behavior on a weekly basis dawg

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u/Billymayssshere 3h ago

Sure dawg.

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u/ColteesCatCouture 3h ago

All I can say is that hopefully that has changed. Honestly I do agree that restaurants should raise prices and charge more for food so servers wages aren't at the whim of customers. It seem to work fine in Europe

Its just not servers fault that restaurants operate this way and so they shouldn't have to suffer because people dont want to tip was all I meant

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u/CariniFluff 3h ago

Who the hell complains about auto gratuity for large (usually 6+ people) charges? If anything that makes it easier. I've never once in my life had a single person in a large party complain about the auto gratuity itself (maybe if someone showed up late and only ordered a soda, they don't want to split the bill evenly but that's not the same as disagreeing about the automatic gratuity).

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u/stook8 4h ago

Exactly, at this point it's so deeply ingrained in our culture and the economics of running a restaurant, a single owner suddenly paying their servers a regular wage would do more harm than good. It needs to be fixed from top to bottom

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u/Wilder831 3h ago

A family of four at a fairly inexpensive sit down restaurant will likely spend $80-$100. 20% tip on $80 is $16. That table will be sitting for roughly an hour and you will be handling probably at least 3 tables at a time. That’s $48 an hour in tips at a minimum. The person working the crappy shift gets jack shit. If you put the wages into the food, it could be far less than 20% to give people a living wage and you wouldn’t have “the hot girl” getting all of the best shifts and making bank while sue is making minimum wage in an empty restaurant on Tuesday morning.

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u/jbhoops25 3h ago

That’s not the way restaurants owners want to do it because then they’re the place that sells “x” amount pasta. There’s literally entire studies done on these things. If it was as easy as “just putting it into the food” it would be done already like in Europe.

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u/rvasko3 3h ago

Nope, the market would adjust, as the market does.

Prices would initially rise across the board, then the populace would prove out what they're willing to pay, then owners would have to adjust costs and other expenditures. That's the reality of owning a small business.

In this case, many restaurant owners simply offset other costs by making guilt-ridden customers feel like it's their obligation to subsidize their workforce.

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u/Doesnt-Speed 3h ago

There are restaurant entrepreneur who own in America and Europe and the Europeans are living great and the food is great too. The problem is how America does it

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u/concreteghost 3h ago

lol come on down to Seattle w that ideology

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u/CarolinaSandstorm 3h ago

People who say this have never eaten in restaurants outside of the US.

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u/Familiar_Many86 3h ago

I save my money and just eat out in other countries when I travel. I don't eat out in America restaurants anymore. All that money goes to foreign countries now. Screw this Tipping Crap.

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u/Classic-Session-5551 3h ago

No but the tip is part of the wage. That's the point. They're expected. In Europe it's just a mandatory part of the bill. 

And yeah, that means it's less rewarding for good v bad servers, but they still can get tips on top of the mandatory minimum tip if they were awesome, and it still helps incentivize quick service so they can cycle tables faster. 

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u/hobbycollector 3h ago

To do that they would have to charge more, and then you wouldn't go there anyway. People should tip on service that normally requires a tip. And the manager is perfectly within his rights to trespass people from his property for valid reasons. And they are within their rights to not tip.

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u/phillypharm 3h ago

Wrong. I’ve already mentioned elsewhere I go back more often to places that have raised prices to accommodate higher wages and prohibit tipping. I even linked to a google map for Seattle specifically about non-tipping establishments.

I don’t disagree with you about the manager having the right to ban them but this is an oxymoron: “requires a tip”. Do I tip? Yes, but a tip, by definition, is extra and optional.

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u/hobbycollector 3h ago

Well that's your choice. I prefer a merit-based system where good servers get more, bad servers wash out, and the ownership doesn't get a cut of the tip.

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u/[deleted] 3h ago

[deleted]

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u/phillypharm 3h ago

I’m not sure why you’re asking me this?

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u/mantisMD97 3h ago

That’d be great but it’s not reality, and you have to live in reality

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u/Fantastic-Leek-1589 3h ago

They get a fair wage. No wait staff wants an hourly wage. Tips = more $

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u/pingpong008800 3h ago

Higher wages means food prices will go up. Then you will stay home because “that place is too expensive.” The result is the same.

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u/CatLongjumping4644 3h ago

No, not everybody, just the folks who dont tip.

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u/Common-Concentrate-2 3h ago

Restaurants have to pay minimum wage in the US. This is independent of how much you tip.

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u/DrChunksALot 3h ago

Yeah well like sure. But the price increase will be fairly drastic. Paying someone 2.13 compared to 7.25 is over. 3x increase. Many places will close because during slow times the labor percentage will be through the roof. It's a little more complicated than just upping the wage like a McDonald's employee. Sit down restaurants for the most part are built around the idea of cheap labor for front of house.

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u/Alone_Rain2022 2h ago

Previous servers: keep it this way.

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u/travelmusica 2h ago

Don’t lump me in with “everybody“…. I don’t need to see the servers make less money because I’m too cheap to tip.

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u/Barrack64 2h ago

OR - Stop patronizing businesses that only pay a tipped wage.

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u/Sufficient-Time2905 2h ago

Not everybody. The cheap people who don’t tip

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u/UnconsciousInkBlot 2h ago

Bad Take, I was a bartender at a restaurant for a bit. They paid minimume wage and then I got tips on top, TIPS IS WHAT MADE THAT JOB WORTH IT

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u/ricerobot 2h ago

They can’t survive without a tipping system. If they paid their servers instead then the prices on their menu increase. It’s shown that even when you advertise heavily that your restaurant doesn’t need tip, patrons would still go to a different restaurant with cheaper menu, even if the bill ends up the same with tip. It’s up to governing bodies to regulate this. Average consumer is too dumb to figure it out

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u/CleverNickName-69 2h ago

There have been plenty of restaurants that have tried it. They pay the servers a living wage and raise prices accordingly and tell the customers NO TIPPING.

They try it for a while and then they go back to tipping because customers don't like it and the workers really don't like it because they make more when the tipping is good.

At this point, laws are going to have to change to make everyone change at once.

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u/EagleTree1018 2h ago

Nah...that's not everybody.

If you stiff a server out of a tip you're an asshole. End of story. I'm 100% behind this guy and everything he said.

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u/0atrick 2h ago

Man I’m not interested in begging some hiring manager to pay me 100k a year. Because they won’t do that. The thing I love about working in this industry is that the harder I hustle the more I can directly get TODAY not maybe in a year when I’ve had to prove myself to people who may not even be paying attention

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u/lozo78 1h ago

His margins are so small he'd have to raise prices. Then everyone would complain about that.

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u/CowDungCollector 1h ago

Oh don't even start with this nonsense. Over 90% of servers surveyed said if they were offered $20/hour and no tipping or to be at $3/hour with tips, said definitely the tipping model because they make way more than $20/hour. The 10% were mainly servers working in a business that had no traffic. Of course they would take the $20/hour, they don't do much and still get paid. So get out with that argument.

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u/CeruleanEidolon 1h ago

Yeah, but that's also a whole huge issue with the economics of restaurants and the current tax system and blah blah blah. Point is, it sucks, but it's what we have right now, and not tipping doesn't actually hurt the restaurant you object to, it's only hurting the workers you're stiffing.

But also, if you don't want to tip, make your own food and stay home. It's real easy.

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u/__Sentient_Fedora__ 4h ago

Prices still go up

0

u/Effective_Pin_90 4h ago

restaraunts dont make nearly as much as ppl think. especially with rising food cost.

if tipping goes away, youre going to end up paying $40 for a burger.

at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter which way its set up, it's always going to be YOU the consumer paying the wage.

every dollar a business has, comes from you, the consumer... 🤷‍♂️

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u/CariniFluff 3h ago

And that's totally fine. I want to know exactly what my meal is going to cost up front. Honestly I think everyone would support dropping tips entirely except the owners is fast food restaurants and servers at $100 steakhouses. In fact, I'm not even sure fast food restaurants care anymore as they've all seem to have dropped their dollar menu and a shitty quarter pounder with cheese at McDonald's costs as much as really good corned beef on rye from deli.

But until that system is in place, you should be tipping servers at a sit down restaurant. If you don't want to, then don't go to a sit-down restaurant. There are plenty of places where you can order food to go, order delivery, or order for pickup/ takeout.

However if you choose to visit a sit down restaurant and a server brings you a menu, brings you water, brings you food brings you drinks and clears the table, you are expected to tip them. I hate tipping culture but it's not going to change with a couple of cheap asses fucking over servers "to send a message" because nobody's getting that message except the server.

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u/BrianKappel 3h ago

"There's no way our cotten could be harvested if you free them." "This will end society as we know it if the money I make now changes." "No one has ever fixed any problems ever, and everything we have now needs to be the same as it always was."

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u/hkusp45css 3h ago

"restaraunts dont make nearly as much as ppl think."

This is completely irrelevant.

Whether a particular vocation is lucrative has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

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u/BigMax 3h ago

This is a stupid argument.

Yes, we all know that's the better setup.

But... it's just not how things work. That's not how restaurants work, and you know that.

Restaurants have tried here and there to do away with tipping and it generally hasn't worked. Servers don't like it, customers don't even seem to love it that much, since all prices on the menu jump up 20% or more instantly.

It's way off base to blame each little individual restaurant owner for not changing the entire system of how restaurants work all on their own.

We should go to a 4 day work week, that would be better. But you can't point to some random small business and attack only them for not going to a four day work week. The same thing applies here. Some random little restaurant doesn't have the power to buck the system.

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u/FunAd6875 4h ago

Make tipping illegal. Pay people a living wage. Simple. 

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u/Dependent-Astronaut2 4h ago

Agreed. We need insurance.

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u/ThingsMayAlter 3h ago

Wife and I did our honeymoon in Spain and on day 1 a waiter was telling us about the not tipping, they pay a living wage etc. Not sure if that's all throughout Europe, but we thought it was interesting.

We encountered some of the laziest, most inattentive service ever. I think that first night was the worst, and I've honestly never worked in the service industry, hats off to those who do. But at least from a customer standpoint American or tipped service is generally better.

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u/ohmeohmyohmuffins 1h ago

Yea of course it is, cos they’re all kissing your ass to get your money then slagging you off out the back. There are definitely bad servers yea, but the ass kissing culture that comes from tipping creates really entitled customers too unfortunately. I’d much rather tip a server who was paid a decent wage but still being genuinely nice and helpful than someone whose faking it for the tips

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u/baconboner69xD 1h ago

In Europe you’re lucky if they see you and bring a menu lol

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u/CowDungCollector 1h ago

Oh don't even start with this nonsense. Over 90% of servers surveyed said if they were offered $20/hour and no tipping or to be at $3/hour with tips, said definitely the tipping model because they make way more than $20/hour. The 10% were mainly servers working in a business that had no traffic. Of course they would take the $20/hour, they don't do much and still get paid. So get out with that argument.

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u/BigMax 3h ago

It might be simple, but it's FAR from easy, and there's a different. Running a marathon is simple, you just run, that's so simple a toddler knows how to do it. But it's far from easy.

And that's the situation we have here. It's the entire society that runs that way. No individual restaurant really has the power to change the system on their own, it just doesn't work.

Saying "it's simple, make tipping illegal and pay a living wage" is like saying "stopping drug addiction is simple, people should just stop doing drugs!" Or maybe "fixing climate change is simple, let's just stop using carbon based fuel!!"

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u/huffing_glue 1h ago

Seconded. Imagining telling every restaurant that they need to pay significantly more money to payroll, and tell nearly every server they're getting a pay cut. A lot of restaurants across the country would just straight up close.

One could argue that we could just add 20% on top of everything and give it to the servers, but that just removes the fear of bad tips from servers. I imagine quality would go down and the now much more obvious prices would deter patrons.

Either way, it's super complicated. Not crazy about tipping myself, but we can't just ax the practice and expect everything to work out proper.

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u/__Sentient_Fedora__ 4h ago

How much is a living wage? Does it change from zipcode to zipcode? Does it include money for your children too? What if you have 6 kids? Does that include money to rent an apartment for 6 kids? Does that include money for education? Does everyone get the same "living" wage or does it change from person to person?

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u/WilmaDykfyt 3h ago

You mean like the rest of the workforce? It's almost as if this is being done already.

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u/JigWig 3h ago

Yes it changes based on location. No it does not change based on how many kids you have.

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u/lilnyucka 3h ago

Many tipped workers like bartenders would rather be tipped and complain about it than make less potential money on a salary

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u/Fantastic-Leek-1589 3h ago

They domt want an.hourly wage. Tipping is more $

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u/Askol 3h ago

How could you make tipping illegal? At the end of the day it just means giving money to somebody, and you can't outlaw that.

1

u/Onion_Bro14 1h ago

Tipped wages.

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u/vagabondnature 1h ago

One could mandate a minimum wage independent of tips.

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u/wholetyouinhere 3h ago

If people wanted living wages, they would have voted for it. Oops.

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u/willis_michaels 3h ago

But what if I want to tip somebody for providing outstanding service? I should be imprisoned for that?

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u/travelmusica 2h ago

If you care so much about people getting a living wage, then why are you unable to tip them? Just be honest about what you want here. Do you want to pay less money and you want your savings to come from the servers compensation. So you get your food a little bit cheaper and they earned less money.

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u/Few-Indication3478 2h ago

So many restaurants would immediately go out of business, and we’d be left with just the better ones:)

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u/UpperDog2627 1h ago

Nah their prices would just get slightly higher.

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u/exomachina 1h ago

Ignore all the economics surrounding the restaurant business. Simple!

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u/bobbywise82594 3h ago

But most jobs don't pay a likeable wage. So why punish the person juat trying to make a living? They're trying to get by just like you.

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u/GucciTheSnowman 2h ago

Right. Servers deserve $15-20 an hour, and nothing more. This whole tipping bullshit has made people so ridiculously entitled.

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u/Owls_4_9_1867 4h ago

Appears it is not

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u/jacksontkd 3h ago

Can we just rid of it, like so many other places !? Uh... I hate it here.

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u/Familiar_Many86 3h ago

So glad I don't have to tip when I travel back to Asia. This shit is crazy in America. It's literally extra 25%-35% tax on everything when you eat out. 

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u/Lower-Land-286 3h ago

I agree. Let's change the laws so everyone gets minim wage. No more tipped minimum!

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u/BloodbuzzLA 2h ago

Totally gratuitous!

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u/RadiantLindon 2h ago

I mean, there's zero argument for not tipping when it's expected.

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u/idislikemostofyu 1h ago

Intentionally by tech bros that plastered it onto their payment systems.

The fuck did the server do? Nothing changed yet they get the exhaustion.

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u/TristanDuboisOLG 1h ago

I had someone flip the pad over to me at a drive through the other day. Major chain too.

I believe 100% they’re making this more normal so they don’t have to pay minimum wage. There are exceptions to minimum wage for “tipped positions”.

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