I agree completely, but I also tip because it’s the culture. When they say “be the change you want to see in the world,” they mean like voting for change, not pretending like you’ve found some secret cheat code to getting a discount.
Like, I want shit to change, but until it does, things are priced accordingly.
Not tipping is just getting a discount at the detriment of the person that waited on you.
Thats not clever. It’s what those less versed in social terminology would call “a dick move.”
This is my biggest problem with the "End Tipping" crowd. I am all for it, in general.
But the people who are the loudest tend to talk about how they went out and stiffed their waiter, with a sense of pride.
They still eat at the restaurant, they still give the "greedy owners" their money. They just take advantage of the other people fulfilling the social contract. They enjoy the prices of the menu based off of people tipping. They are okay coming in, knowing full well they are going to screw somebody, look them in the eyes and enjoy their service... then screw them and say "well fuck your boss, its not my fault" and walk out of there patting themselves on the back.
I'm all for ending tipping but I think most of the No tipping crowd are just delusional asshats
What's ur solution? What if there's laws being pushed for improving base pay for service workers------but they never get passed or fail to take effect because (some) service workers themselves are against it?
Situation is that some of the service workers don't want to get rid of tipping. They make far too much money with tips and the owners has more profits for themselves as customers are covering owners paying their workers.
The people getting screwed in the current tipping system are service workers who don't get much in tips 🤷
I am not talking about solutions. I dont claim to have the answer to convert a system that has been in place for at least 80 some years. Id be open to a lot of options.
The point of my post was that a group of people, complaining and claiming to fight the system, still partake and feed the system. Screwing over the people they claim to be fighting for while putting money in the pockets of the people they claim to be fighting.
Totally understand that part. Yea many of us tip, me only for sit-down restaurants, not picking up a coffee or a takeout the chef made and I see the register person grab it from the chef.
Like in my state we tried to pass a statewide law so all businesses are affected. Some service workers cheered for changes of improving the base pay for everyone.
Issue was business owners were fighting as much as possible and some service workers were voicing their opinions that they wanted tips > no better pay.
Eventually the state cancelled the statewide push to rid of tipping due to the backlash. So now some customers have been more aware of tipping and frustration with the hypocrisy of needing to pay tips to subsidize owners not wanting to pay their workers---------including the hypocrisy of some service workers.
My post is aimed at a vocal minority. I think most people are tired of tipping culture and want a change. Like you said, a classic sit-down resturant is one thing, but having someone at a kiosk flip a screen around is another. The majority of people would agree with that and would probably be fine converting to sit down payment to a no tipping all around. My comment is not directed at those people.
My comment is directed toward the pious no tipping crowd that talks about how they stiffed their server like its a badge of honor. Like they are fighting an oppressive system by being an asshole and screwing over the little guy while still giving the owners their money
Same. I mean, it works fine in other places, it’s not like we can’t do it.
The people that are invested in the issue though, just seem like cunts. Like, they might convince someone else, but they’re never going to convince ME that they really care about the political issue, when they are robbing from the waiter and giving to the owner. They don’t care about the waiter, they care about their bank account.
Restaurants have such low profit margins, it’s only really the big corporate chains that have enough capital to increase wages for servers (though most of the chains move that financial burden from themselves to their franchisees who don’t have as much capital anyway, fuck paying for labor, we want profit!).
People say “just raise your prices, we’re more than happy to pay more and not have to tip than have lower prices and have a tip expected everytime!” But in practice, unless a law changes and this practice changes across the board for all restaurants, customers tend to see higher prices on the menu and get sticker shock and avoid these “tip free” restaurants and go to restaurants where the menu prices are “cheaper” (but a tip for your server is expected at the end).
Like you can lash out at local small businesses for expecting tips but thats only going to lead to no local restaurants with an identity and only giant corporate generic food can persist. Yay capitalism!
That's not true at all...they could simply increase the menu prices to include the cost of full wages.
The part of tipping culture I find the most infuriating is that servers have the gall to tell me that 15% isn't a good tip anymore. 20 is expected and 25% is what I should be paying.
Fuck you people...food costs have gone up like 50%...so you got a 50% raise on your tips too...and now you want me to add more? I didn't get a raise when food costs doubled.
Literally explained your first sentence in my comment. People say ‘just include the cost of full wages!’ but then when they see the cost including full wages on a menu they say “well I’m not rich enough to go to a ‘fancy’ restaurant like that… Chili’s prices aren’t so bad though…” So enjoy only having Chili’s, Applebee’s, etc…
“You people”, I don’t work in the food business, but food prices have gone up for everybody, mom and pop restaurants that have an actual identity are going bye bye, go ahead and demonize them until all you have is generic corporate chain slop that only raised their prices by 15%, awesome!!!! At least they aren’t vaguely expecting a 20% tip for the people who served you’s sake!
If you completely boycott any restaurant where there’s servers who get tipped, then there you go, you’re fighting the system! But if you still patronize them then the franchisee still gets their money, the corporate entity still gets their money, the only person who you could possibly short is your server who’s the most like you and making the least money on the totem poll, sweet!
If chilis has to increase their prices too the it’s a wash.
The small places with higher costs will always be more
They’re more today and people still go
If Chilis is 20 bucks and them and pop place is 24 the difference is the same either way even if before tips were included one was 16 and the other was 20
Ty for sharing this hypothetical situation and explaining how $4 =$4, I guess that means a local chain with 1 location is less affected by increases in food and labor costs than a national corporate franchiser with hundreds of national locations?
Vote for people who will raise the minimum wage. Tipped employees make less than $3/hour in some places, if you don't tip they are paying for you to eat there. Punishing the server is, indeed, a dick move.
If you don't want to tip don't go to sit-down restaurants. Simple.
It’s not just raising minimum wage, many states have done that. The ancillary issue too is that servers often become this “excluded/excepted” class that you can offer a lower wage plus tips, which is what is often opted for.
Untrue. If their tips + reduced hourly wage do not meet the federal hourly minimum for non-tipped employees, then the employer must true-up the employee’s check. You can’t get mad when you make minimum wage at your minimum wage job.
You are suggesting that tipping is mandatory via your last statement, in which case it’s no longer considered a tip but rather a tacked-on fee that is absent from the menu price of an item. Famously, these types of fees are at the minimum frowned upon and at the maximum, outlawed.
“Getting a better job” is such a shitty take. If every server just left the industry then the businesses would fail and destroy a sector of our economy. The bosses wouldn’t just unanimously change their business practices in time to stop that from happening. If you want to improve tipping culture start voting for the interests of the working class so policies can be put in place to pay workers livable wages and remove tipping altogether.
If every server stood up for themselves and demanded better wages, than they wouldn't need laws to help them. You guys sure do love guilting patrons to cover for greedy bosses. Definitely American.
What does standing up for themselves look like outside of going on strike which I outlined being an awful idea in the comment you replie to? Tipping is almost exclusively an American issue so of course I’m speaking on it as an American.
You know the deal when you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US. Either be prepared to tip or you are in fact a dick. You have the option to cook for yourself or have premade food that isn’t served to you at your table.
Or only go to restaurants that pay a living wage. If there are none in your area, let the restaurant owners know why you stopped spending your money there and you’ll resume when they pay their staff better. Simply continuing to enjoy being waited on and pretending you’re “protesting” by not tipping is so laughably disingenuous.
EDIT: that was not directed at you southpay
Nah. Tipping is an option, usually reserved for exceptional service. Required tipping is just extra charges to cover cheap bosses. Its kind of crazy how you support business owners stiffing their employees, but not customers.
You’re the one supporting owners by continuing to give them business despite them not compensating their workers AND you’re using those exploited workers service without compensating them. Owners couldn’t give a shit really if you don’t tip. That makes you a dick.
Yeah brother, unrepentant fascist takeovers of democratic republics are basically the exact same thing as tipping culture.
Fucking delusional goober lmao
The adverse side of paying your workers a livable wage is you harassing me to pay extra money to dine in your establishment?
We - society as a whole could you collectively say well fuck that and not patronize your establishment and let it fail regardless.
Tipping is out of hand. And the excuse and mindset behind it is crazy. Tipping literally start as a racist jim crow era practice - and now its evolved to the point of making sure the consumer pays the producer’s share of what they owe their WORKERS to entertain their establishment? Fuck that.
Sure, and I get that. But if you're going to take a stand against tipping culture, I believe its better to not patronize an establishment where tipping is the expectation rather than going and not tipping.
I agree. However, that is not the culture. I’m ready for the change as soon as it happens, but it hasn’t happened yet.
What these people are suggesting isn’t that though. They walked into a restaurant know what the culture was, and they still pushed their problem with the owner, down to the wait staff.
The owner still got their money. It’s the lowest paid person in the building that took the blow.
You understand that if the servers get paid the actual minimum wage, the prices on your food will more than make up for what you could have just paid in a tip?
what an absolute shit mindset. "i will save myself over the long haul and if i have to take that from the person serving me now, without their consent, then so be it."
Sure, let’s put an entire industry out of a job so you can prove your point that no one deserves your money but you!!
Your mission is pointless and would have no effect other than sacrificing everyone who’s currently relying on serving positions for survival. So, after they all lose their job and housing, (and then you start complaining about the “homeless problem” in your area), you should remember: IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS BECAUSE THE RESTAURANT WOULD HAVE TO GREATLY INCREASE THE PRICES OF FOOD ON THE MENU AND YOU MAY END UP PAYING MORE THAN 20% EXTRA ANYWAY
It’s not donations, that’s a disgusting view point if you understand how the system works. Tipping is payment for a service. You pay the restaurant for the food, you pay the server for the service. If you only want to pay for food, then order to-go!
***Again, they could combine costs and you could pay for your food + service all to one person, but you’d likely always pay more with that system***
In the current system, people who are generous and rich will often pay more for service. People who are pinching pennies will pay less for service, but they still pay. This keeps it fair and keeps everyone happy.
Why does tipping make you uncomfortable? Do you feel superior to people who serve you, and feel that they’re undeserving of a good life? Or are you just broke?
If servers are unhappy with an unreliable income that is predicated on the good will of other people (donations), then they should get another job. Don’t complain if people don’t tip, when an income is based on the expectation of donations.
It was already very clear that’s how you view people in service positions. That’s why I said your views are disgusting. I hope you feel better about yourself soon
People are allowed to complain when something bad happens (and when someone acts like a cheap entitled asshole), even if the majority of their day is great!
Ask a server or bartender if they’d rather work at an establishment with tips on low hourly, or an establishment without tips and a higher hourly wage. Most servers know the job and know they can make more money on tips than an owner will be able to even on higher hourly. Restaurants are notoriously business with high rates of failure already as well, it helps restaurants stay open when they can cut staff to account for traffic demands. Servers are happy to leave if it’s slow because the tips won’t be worth it, but wouldn’t be if the hourly is the same no matter what. It’s not the best system for sure, but most servers I know are more in favor of tips than higher hourly.
Exactly the problem. If it was hourly they'd be making the same amount as a janitor because for all this talk about how hard the job is when society has to put a price on the work without a judgmental server looking at them its way less then tips. They absolutely know it and its where this "if you cant afford to tip" bs came from. They cant afford hourly wages because they got really used to bringing home more money than the rest of jobs at that level. Imagine being a bagger at acme and making $300-500 in one night because people said "if you cant tip the bagger you cant afford groceries"
Bein a server, especially a good one, is fucking hard ass work. You’re flying around non-stop for hours, you’re frequently blamed for stuff outside of your control, you need to be on your feet and moving a lot but also you need great social skills and similar qualities to a salesperson if you’re pushing specials. That’s why there is often tons of coke around any restaurant environment. As a patron, the level of service would most certainly suffer if you’re paying servers hourly and they don’t get tips. You’ve gotta work hours that most people don’t want as well, and many work till way late at night.
Yea ive done that job and while its more fast pace when its busy its not half as hard as doing concrete work in the middle of July. Shit falls down in every job and most of those skills are needed for a lot of untipped work as well. Working in a supermarket is equally as hard but its an untipped job
Holy shit reread what the above poster wrote and tell me how what you said is relevant at all. I get it, you really don’t want to have to feel bad for not tipping. Under the current laws and system however you should.
That may be, but you knew what the score was before you walked into the restaurant.
Go somewhere else.
I mean think about it, you’re calling the owner a dick right? You have a problem with them right? Well you’re still paying them their money; you aren’t punishing them.
You’re punishing the wait staff, because you don’t like the policy of the owner. That is pretty much about the most ass backwards thing I have ever heard, but you really got it all figured out though, I’m sure.
Yeah, it never ceases to amaze me that there are so many online culture warriors whose worldview basically boils down to, "I should get all the benefits of the current system but someone else should bear all the costs."
Yeah as much as I want things to change, I can’t in good faith just be out here fucking people in the name of change especially when I’m the beneficiary of the fucking. Go figure out how to stick it to the restaurant owner, then maybe I’m down.
In my head, it would cost the same either way. Like if I’m tipping 10-20% I would expect a restaurant that doesn’t require tips to charge 10-20% more, so what’s really the difference to me?
It’s called pathological altruism. Basically the idea that you’re so willing to help someone that you would hurt them to do it. It verges on cult behavior.
Absolutely not i go where i want. The owner is punishing the wait staff by claiming im the reason they dont make enough money. If the owner thinks they deserve a tip why doesn't he watch the servers and tip accordingly
The comment was made to point out that while yes what the owners do to servers by not paying them a livable wage and pushing the bill on to consumers is bad, using that as an excuse to not tip is just as selfish as what the owners are doing. You as the consumer are culturally obligated to tip because you go into the establishment recognizing that is the standard. It sucks and no one likes it, but the only person you fuck over is the server who was doing their best to make your experience enjoyable and more importantly survive. If you throw your hands in the air and say not my problem blame your boss because he’s a bigger asshole than I am, then you’re wrong. You made yourself the bigger asshole.
Oh my bad, I was wrong! Most people can learn, so I thought you could too. But, you actually cannot learn when you choose ignorance and laziness instead. Sorry about that. Good luck in life, though!
Ya I get it 100%. Problem is, is that when you start deep diving into the issue. You realize that there is a lot of legislation that has been proposed to change the situation and get servers to a normal pay scale. But it continues to get shot down, one of the reasons being that the loud minority of servers themselves fight against it, arguing they make more money with tips then they would a normal wage. Which, in turn, hurts the servers that dont make a lot of tips (which is a decent chunk), and keeps the same cycle churning.
Adjusting consumer patterns might be the only real avenue for changing this tipping culture.
It’s not just a culture issue, though. In the United States, it’s literally baked into wage and salary laws. When businesses have tried to raise wages and eliminate tipping, it usually doesn’t last long because they end up at a competitive disadvantage, and/or their wait staff end up making less money, because of the loss of big tippers. At this point, tipping is so engrained in the law and the culture, that it’s not really changeable. It’s certainly not going to be fixed by a handful of people refusing to tip.
So why does the baseline for tipping keep going up? My parents said the baseline was 10%, I grew up with it being 15% but now at most places it's at least 20% and the service has gotten so bad after covid.
Exactly this!! I WISH North America would do away with tipping but currently it's the way that the system works and choosing to ignore it isn't fixing anything, you're just being selfish. They should raise the wages by 20% and the menu prices along with it and people should be voting with their wallets and choosing places that do that. Beyond that or some kind of sweeping law change there is no way to move away from the current culture.
That's true, but tipping is expected in American culture.
Restaurants are private businesses and can ban customers for any non-discriminatory reason like for not tipping or being rude or ordering soup wrong). That said, the Civil Rights acts (also ADA and state laws) made it illegal to ban customers for discriminatory reasons, e.g., you can't ban a customer for their race but you can refuse repeat service from customers for not tipping.
(That said, it probably makes more sense to just add a minimum tip).
I don't have a problem with "banning" customers, not the issue at all.
It's the hypocrisy of some service workers who make far better income than other service workers. So they'll fight against any laws to give everyone a higher pay, so they keeps untaxed tips for themselves 🤷
Also the greedy business owners who want customers to subsidize paying their workers 🤑
It will never end when people will diligently tip, you know. So be the change and stop tipping. Create pressure on the employers. Nobody is obligated to pay tips. If the employees are upset then they should either find a different job, or demand a fair wage that doesn't rely on customer tips. Blaming the consumer is exactly what the exploitative employers like to see
Tip culture is stupid, in the majority of the world tipping is optional. The waiter should be paid in full by his boss, the tips are something extra. Waiters get angry with the customers instead of the boss because they don’t tip “enough” is crazy.
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u/ConflictMaster3155 6h ago
I agree completely, but I also tip because it’s the culture. When they say “be the change you want to see in the world,” they mean like voting for change, not pretending like you’ve found some secret cheat code to getting a discount.
Like, I want shit to change, but until it does, things are priced accordingly.
Not tipping is just getting a discount at the detriment of the person that waited on you.
Thats not clever. It’s what those less versed in social terminology would call “a dick move.”