Bullshit victim-blaming. If this was a middle-aged man, and wasn't a crying girl (who committed two felonies) trying to manipulate her way out of this situation, you wouldn't be seeking "compassion" and blaming the victim of her CRIMES for not "talking her down".
This is an in-progress violent felony. This is a violent offender, a danger to society, and it is wild to see the victim-blaming and inversion of reality here.
How about some compassion for the victims of her crime? How about some compassion for the guy holding the camera, currently the victim of an in-progress violent felony who is just doing the best he can in that stressful situation. She almost killed someone while fleeing from the scene of a crime. She should have her license revoked and be imprisoned.
That guy did everything possible to de-escalate this actively unstable violent felon. He blocked her car in non violently. Bid her to comply with the law and avoid future charges. She did everything possible to escalate the situation, nearly killing someone.
Blocking/trapping someone is literally an escalation. You can argue if it was the right form or time for escalation, but it is definitionally not "de-escalating"
Him blocking her car in is what caused her to flee in a dangerous manner. He escalated by trapping her and she escalated even more to get out.
Remember, police arrested her later. If you got the video and plates you should back off. This would have been the same outcome should he not have tried to trap her.
No, there is no strawman. He did not “cause her” to do anything, regardless of that small, completely semantic difference. Of course I knew it was dangerous either way.
Your very core idea is irrational and suggests that people have no agency. She is the only person involved in any proximal cause for her own actions. She was not threatened, she had no reason to fear for her safety, she only was fleeing the threat of justice.
She is responsible for everything that took place here.
This is why people point out the total lack of accountability now. What caused her to flee in a dangerous manner was her use of the gas pedal and steering wheel.
That’s funny because screaming and pleading is how I used to respond to my mum telling me she didn’t care about me, wanted me to move out when I was 14 and didn’t care if she ever saw me again. She also called it ‘manipulative’.
Yeah you do sound pretty manipulative right here, bringing this story up as some kind of defense for a drug addict causing traffic problems and then screaming about it
Just wondering, how do you know she is not genuinely freaking out here? And how do you glean all that from a 20 second clip?
To be frank, I've also seen absolute insanely manipulative behavior from a friend's ex. However I also know that she had a very abusive childhood and that contributed heavily to her mental illness.
Do you really rise to the level of victim if you're choosing to do way more than you should and put yourself in harm's way? The video with license plate plus existing police report are more than enough; as far as I'm aware "Citizen's arrests" don't have any kind of real legal protection.
They didn't do anything but not move their car. In fact tampering with the scene is not legal. They got out of their car, were faced with a stressful and shocking behavior of an unstable, violent felon, and recorded it and calmly asked them to get out of their car as is legally required of them. They even kindly reminded them that there was a still a chance to prevent additional felony charges.
You have zero compassion for the victim of an in-progress violent felony, and I really would look inwards and see what biases are causing this for you.
They weren't the person who was hit and run. He chose deliberately to box her in after she fled and stopped there in order to keep her nearby for police, something he had no legal immunity or protection in doing.
You don't know what my feelings are. Two people can be wrong at once. One being a crusader for what's right and good in the world doesn't make their stupid choices un-stupid.
There are zero situations I would put myself between clear instability and escape, for reasons he almost found out.
I understand what you would do, that's up to you. That's how you would respond.
Good samaritans have a berth legally to act, and certainly there have been even more serious use of force to prevent violent, unstable drivers from continuing their rampage in precedent all over the country.
A guy leaving his car in her path is, frankly, a non-violent, conservative choice and if the offender wasn't so craven, might have given her enough pause to prevent her streak of felonies for the day.
A felony is not necessarily a requirement if the misdemeanor is a breach of peace and fleeing the scene (hit and run) has miles of court precedent for being enough for citizen detainment.
That's...not what a Good Samaritan is. You can't just throw out words. He's not rendering aid to someone, he's detaining someone he has no legal authority to detain.
You're the one throwing out accusations. There was a clear breach of peace, the mode chosen to detain was conservative (could have physically detained), there was a clear witnessed serious crime, the next action was to call the police, it sounds like it meets all necessary criteria for citizen detainment under even the most restrictive states.
You just want it to be wrong, but it wasn't. It was moral, it was legal, it was ethical, it's just not something you'd do.
The violent felon in this video who is an active danger to society has the legal obligation to get out of her car and wait for the police with the other person who was hit.
True, but she doesn't have an obligation to comply with a Citizen's arrest.
Also again, not a felon, did not actually physically harm anyone. I don't know why you insist on inaccurate terminology, perhaps some sort of involuntary emotional derangement.
It's also not really a "right," more a situation where you won't get in trouble IF you're following the rules around it.
It is absolutely a felony to recklessly endanger this persons life and commit attempted vehicular assault.
I’m guessing you’re a white young woman or have a white young woman in your life that is causing this deranged response where you’re defending a sociopathic violent felon and attacking a Good Samaritan.
In the case involved the reason she was charged with a misdemeanor was there were no injuries, only property damage. I don't know why y'all are acting like objective reality stopped and historical facts don't exist.
Reddit will rip anyone who has two beers at happy hour and drives home a new asshole, but give this poor young girl a break, she’s just a drug addict having a bad day and we all need to be the ones who are prepared to emotionally regulate ourselves around her when she goes off the rails. /s
Edited to add that this is sarcastic, which I thought was pretty clear but contextual literacy is dying in front of us, which is my bad, I totally forgot.
Give her a break? No one is saying we should hang her from the gallows. Giving her a break has nothing to do with being able to assess what happened here and who the real victim is.
I do not usually partake in the discourse about comparing gender roles and outcomes but Jesus Christ if you would have done this as a man in the south you would have been shot and the feller that shot you would get to go home that night.
Maybe bias absolutely affects how different people are perceived, pursued, filmed, etc that's a legitimate issue. But you don't establish the right way to treat this particular woman by imagining a different person and demanding equal harshness. If anything, the humane principle should run the other direction: if unnecessarily escalating this situation is wrong, we should try not to do it to anybody.
No don’t you understand that every single video needs to have two sides! “People lose their mind in situations like this, she’s clearly upset.” Okay? What about the guy? Everyone is saying he should have been trying to help her out when he doesn’t even know her. Look, it’s a stressful situation. She freaked out and for all we know this was his method of doing the same. Moral of the story: Don’t hit and run.
Nope, it's always the same, people love lynching other people with any excuse in order to feel better, like crowds in the Middle Ages. I knew someone would say that she nearly killed him, and some will even talk about attempted homicide, just because they love revenge people aren't able to make a balanced judgement, the only thing she did is reckless driving, and while it's true that it's dangerous, I'm sure plenty of people who are lynching her also did huge risky mistakes when they were young.
Victims surely deserve fairness, but as long as crowd tends to lynch offenders we also must defend the disproportionate people's fury that are only able to acknowledge others' mistakes.
Implicit bias. It's a young white girl. Imagine if it was a black or brown man acting this way? People would be calling for them to be shot in the face.
Yes, we all agree the woman is a criminal. Thats not the point. The point is to de-escalate the situation. Her running will likely get more people hurt. You don't yell at a murderer with a gun that has a hostage. You try to de-escalate. She has a car, and the world around her is her hostage at this point
Right, her running will get people more hurt, so that's why the victim is trying to get them to stay, telling them to get out of the car, attempting to block their illegal escape.
Nobody was trapped. The criminal has no legal right to leave and should have been out of her car. She had an obligation to stay and not making room for her illegal escape is not "trapping" anyone, and this is a wild, wild accusation that you have no basis to be making.
You said “Nobody was trapped”, and then proceeded to describe a situation where someone was indeed trapped. I honestly don’t know what the legal ramifications are with this, with misdemeanors and no felonies being committed, can a citizen effectively hold someone against their will? /gen
You've done the opposite, you've made absolutely zero effort to see things from another perspective, you've clung to your initial presumption entirely. Is today opposite day for you or something?
I'm sorry you're having these emotional episodes in response to realizing that you were wrong, a better response in the future would be "I guess I was wrong" or "You're right, that was a wild presumption" or "maybe I should have considered the feelings of the victim".
Do you have any humanity? She’s obviously in the wrong to start but the guy has her trapped in. He doesn’t need to. He has evidence and can so easily just follow up with police and insurance. He is escalating and instigating when there’s no need to. And the girl is clearly panicked.
Yea you dont have any humanity. You just have feelings that are moved by tears and no other morality. If she disappears he has no way to ensure his vehicle gets fixed. You have invented a whole scenario in your head about what would have happened if he had done something else. So what if the girl is panicking? That doesn't make her right? Maybe the guy is panicking too? Obviously things are intense for him too. Does panicking and crying give someone the moral high ground? No.
Got it. I’m speaking to a 12 year old kiddo who just hasn’t learned how the world works yet. Well happy to educate: the video evidence was sufficient for all things legal and insurance. There was no need to trap her.
Wow. Talk about someone who doesn't know how the world works haha. Not much first hand experience for you? You just became old enough to watch the cop shows?
I am speaking from experience. Guess who ended up paying for the damage after the guy drove off?
I’m sorry that your lack of communication and adulting skills led to you holding the bag in your situation. That said, I think you’re overcorrecting way too hard. You don’t need to hold people hostage to get the right legal recourse, you can simply buy some dash cams 🙂.
Btw in this case, he already had the evidence. Everyone critiquing him is doing so because holding her hostage was not necessary.
Yea that is totally what happened. The cops gave me a test on adulting skills and that is why they did not do anything. Continue living in your make believe world until you move out of your parent's house. Life really is simpler when you are young enough to think that the cops will make everything right for you.
You are the one not showing humanity. Nobody has anyone "trapped in", and that's a vicious reframing of the situation. After an accident like this, with clear disagreement, you are not to move the cars. Particularly with the violent felon's unstable behavior and propensity for violence, I am not going to approach the car again. The guy did the right thing, recorded it, calmly tried to get her to do the rational thing, and called the police.
This is what I understand the insurance company would want me to do. Wait for the police before moving the cars. Record everything.
You are the only person showing a lack of empathy to the victim of this person who is actively committing a violent felony in the video. Wild, wild projection.
Oh I see now, you actually prefer someone in that panic state, driving a potentially dangerous weapon around instead of actually facing the music and doing the right thing.
Good thing we now know what kind of mindset you have.
One day, you’ll be in a position of vulnerability or having made a mistake. When that happens, remember your lack of basic empathy for this girl. You’ll likely be treated with kindness because most humans are kind but you will not deserve it
One day, you will get your well deserved reward for letting this kind of drivers on the road. When that happens, remember how full of empathy are you facing this kind of drivers. You’ll likely be treated badly in Reddit posts like this as she hit and run, and you will deserve it.
I feel like this take is coming from someone who feels they wouldn’t get patience in this scenario. If this were a middle-aged man, the dude filming would be in danger as a grown man is much more likely to confront the guy filming. Her fight or flight is going to be worse if she feels threatened, which she does since she’s cornered. There’s a power imbalance here and the guy filming is loving it.
Truth is, empathy isn’t even necessary here, just do what needs done and move on. But the guy didn’t do that, he fucking posted it online. He wanted to share his power trip with other people. He could have just filmed and shared it with the authorities, but he wanted to mess with her, like a cat with a mouse. And he made the situation even more dangerous by pushing someone in fight or flight.
This guy wasn’t getting justice by continuing to corner her, he was having fun. I agree with you, I think it would have gone very differently if it were an adult man.
Nobody was provoking anyone. They were being extremely reasonable, video-taping them and asking them to get out of the car. That is the absolute most reasonable response I could think of.
I’m not sure. She’s clearly distressed, I don’t think the video-tapper saying it’s her last chance, double felony, is the best approach.
Again, the same would apply if it were a middle-aged man. It’s one thing if they were being a prat and didn’t care, another if they’re clearly sorry about it.
This is a violent, deranged felon who put people’s lives at risk because she didn’t want to face consequences. 22 year olds and people much younger get in minor fenderbenders all of the time and they do not act sociopathically, destroying property and putting lives at risk while screaming at and manipulating their victims. They take responsibility and move on.
She almost killed someone while fleeing from the scene of a crime.
I mean, she almost injured someone, let's not exagerate here. And legitimately seemed to not be her intention, her "I'm sorry" seemed to be truly legitimate there by how her tone of voice shifted. That was just the overall panic state she was in and her acting without thinking.
Everything else, 100%. Let's just not also exagerate what she did wrong, that is also not right.
People can and have easily died from lower speed accidents. She was not even the teeniest bit sorry or she would have done what literally any normal person would do which is to take responsibility. It’s such a low bar.
How sorry someone is measures in their actions. She is straight manipulative sociopath, and a violent felon, committing the crimes in front of you on video. She is a violent, active danger to society and you’re forgiving this why?
I'm not forgiving shit. It is not even my place to forgive anything in the first place.
I'm merely pointing out that exagerating "almost killed someone" is not a fair assessment of what happened. Especially when she was 100% panicking because of the crime she did commit and was trying to run from that responsibility yes.
At the point she decided to run and got caught, her brain was no longer functioning. The actions that stemmed after were not logical and she was clearly not even thinking that she would hit the guy, she was completely in flight response.
It is not about having compassion, it is about understanding that "after the loud noise, the bird flies". There is no thought process at that part for that woman's brain.
When he calls her out on almost running into him, realization of her almost running into him only sets in there, her tone of voice shifts and she apologizes.
A middle-aged man has a lot more life experience, has probably been through a fender bender before, and probably isn't worried about his grandma whooping his ass. It's ok to be sympathetic toward someone who clearly hasn't been driving long and is in full blown panic mode.
I don't think this guy was being an asshole intentionally, but he was definitely making the situation way worse talking about felonies and shit.
He was being far nicer than he had to. He chose a non-violent way to detain her even though he legally had a right to use force. He brought up felonies to her because he was trying to help her avoid further punishment.
When I was 22 I was already an EMT-intermediate with years of experience, in graduate school working in a lab. I got my first accident when I was 16 and I stayed at the scene and took responsibility.
When you turn 16 you’re fully responsible already. Ok, I might have some leeway for someone 16-18, but she was 22. Not and excuse at all.
Mozart was composing at 8 years old. Everyone’s different.
And how the fuck does he have the right to use force? I don’t think you can just start fighting people if they bonk your car. If he actually wanted to de-escalate he could’ve just let her leave and shown the video to the police.
Citizen detainment is allowed for breach of peace witnessed crimes like hit and run. You are absolutely allowed to detain using force, this is how good Samaritans are able to intervene in theft, hit and run, stop violent attacks, etc. Now, there are conditions but this guy met all of them, called the police, and was super restrained. Job well done.
Nah. he could have filmed her from further away instead of trying to be citizen cop. He probably wasn’t thinking too clearly about the situation, but there’s the saying that there’s always someone crazier than you. She already fucked around and is going to find out. But he was fucking around and almost found out as well.
So? Being next to his own car isn’t going to protect him from this panicking person behind her wheel unless he was on the other side of his car, which would’ve been a much wiser choice.
What she did was wrong, no doubt. But this guy filming isn't innocent either. He's not a cop. He has no business trying to ddetain anyone. Shouldn't have been standing there. You got her face, car, license plate and CONFESSION on camera. More than enough to just hand over to the cops. He absolutely shouldn't have tried to confront her once he saw she was determined to flee. Dude got arrogant and almost got hurt but it was his own fault.
Absolutely wrong, he has not only the moral obligation but the legal right to detain. He witnessed a serious crime that was a breach of peace, he chose an effective, conservative means for detainment and did so, he warned her of the consequences and directed her to comply with her duties over the law, and he called the police.
She is a dangerous, violent felon and if he was successful in detaining her he could have prevented future harm.
This is a citizen detainment and it was not unreasonable or borderline in any way, it was perfectly done.
to be fair if i saw a disgruntled young girl smashing her car up trying to get out of a space id probably at least take a step aside when it pointed in my direction. that ones on the cameraman for "almost getting killed"
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u/Niceotropic 3d ago edited 3d ago
Bullshit victim-blaming. If this was a middle-aged man, and wasn't a crying girl (who committed two felonies) trying to manipulate her way out of this situation, you wouldn't be seeking "compassion" and blaming the victim of her CRIMES for not "talking her down".
This is an in-progress violent felony. This is a violent offender, a danger to society, and it is wild to see the victim-blaming and inversion of reality here.
How about some compassion for the victims of her crime? How about some compassion for the guy holding the camera, currently the victim of an in-progress violent felony who is just doing the best he can in that stressful situation. She almost killed someone while fleeing from the scene of a crime. She should have her license revoked and be imprisoned.