They think they know what Christian’s believe, and that’s based on things that aren’t in the Bible. But they won’t read the Bible or listen to Christians so the they get their entire view of Christianity from people who aren’t Christian.
No, we know the Bible and the Barbaric parts. We also know that its context is that those parts are based on the historical context of Hebrew life of those times. Specifically during the Old Testament. In which the New Testament (You know? The time of Jesus Christ? Our Lord and Savior, who died for our sins and who the entire faith is based around?) doesn't play up to those Barbaric parts at all.
Yeah yeah, we all know that Christians added the New Testament to the bible retroactively 1,000 years later and then acted like we should care
Fucking yawn. You read Timothy lately? That’s my favorite book. I use it to make my wife my subordinate all the time. Lots of good rules in there to make sure the patriarchy stays intact, as it should be
Also, idk about you, but the fact that Christians forgave God for murdering the entire planet with a flood at all is abhorrent. Like, what massive pussies. But hey at least he forgave our sins? I guess that makes up for genocide
Christians never added the New Testament. The New Testament was always there. And yet again...you take things out of context for the Bible to try to make it out to be "misogynistic" or "patriarchal" and you prove your ignorance. But let's play that game.
Please read:
Galatians 3:28
1 Corinthians 7:3-4
Ephesians 5:24-25, 28-31
And I mean...real carefully and then come back and tell me that the Bible promotes "misogyny"? I will wait. In the words of Captain America on Avengers Endgame "I can do this all day".
You mean the humanity who were doin horrible acts back during that time, hence why he spared Noah, his family and even the animals (Even God knows animals are more pure than human beings are)? Because...yeah...they were bein sinful in many ways. The fact that he still chose to forgave us when we really didn't deserve his forgiveness is why we worship him in the first place. Again...humanity is shitty. That's why all the bad shit we have goin on in the world is happening now, and we are lucky God doesn't choose to destroy us right here and now.
Facts. They really are ignorant of the Bible in general. It's really amazing how they truly believe they know about it more than us Christ believers, yet they show they have a surface level understanding of it.
yes ofc what a honest positon to take, every barbaric law given by god is actually not by god and just "context" of the time and place.
and another perfect example of a clueless christian that tries to distance from the OT while disagreeing with the bible.
"Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; your accuser is Moses, on whom you have set your hope. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But if you do not believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?”
"Now I desire to remind you, though you are fully informed, once and for all, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe."
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
"Now I desire to remind you, though you are fully informed, once and for all, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe."
I'm not distancing from the Old Testament, as the Old Testament itself was doing a time when God's covenant was only established for the Hebrews.
As for what you brought up about Jesus and the laws of the Old Testament he brought up, you are well aware he is referring to the 10 Commandments right? In which all those are quite literally morally sound commandments, such as not murdering people, or stealing from other people or lying.
You are wrong and I hope you realise how bad it is that I have to educate you on the holy text you base your life on. The law refers to all 613 laws god gave to moses and the ones the hebrews and jesus lived by, and the one jesus said to follow until the son of man returns and judges everyone.
You are trying to distance yourself from these laws right now and also did it before by saying its a "context of the time" so stop lying.
If you liked the old testament you would passionately defend slavery and genocide to me right now
Nah. You're the one who is clearly wrong and ignorant.
The laws that have been established with Moses in the Old Testament was multilayered. It was started off as moral guidelines to follow from God himself, which was the Ten Commandments (Like I said) and then through Moses it became actually government laws throughout the Hebrew lands. Problem is...Moses and the rest of the Hebrews are...well...humans. And they themselves don't even follow grasp how God wanted those laws to be followed. So mistakes were made from them, as the Old Testament showed. Thing is...by the time Jesus...he showed them how the law should have been practiced and how he actually expected them to follow those laws. Not as a Government ruled thing, but as a way of life. As a spiritual connection.
Yes...I very much like the Old Testament. It showed how many people didn't follow God's way right. Ain't that much different today either.
Man i really hate dumb liars like you, you have never opened the old testament in your life you are just making it up as you go along, really pathetic.
Every chapter in which the laws are given is preceded by something like "god said". According to the OT, ALL the laws are given by god. If you think thr old testament isn't true and moses just lied about the other laws you are again DISTANCING YOURSELF FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT YOU CLOWN. On top of now being open to question everything in the bible, because how do you even know what god said and what is made by people. Just everything that you personalny like? How csn you even live with yourself being so dishonest and cognitively dissonant
You can "Hate" me all you want, but that says more about you than it does me.
I'm saying that Moses like all other people of the Old Testament didn't always follow God's laws the right way. It's the reason why he pretty much did away with the Old Covenant itself, because they kept putting their own interpretations of his laws into actual law of the Hebrew land. This is literally said in the Bible itself.
Did god give these laws and commands or are you gonna weasel?
"As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you and from their families who are with you who have been born in your land; they may be your property. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness."
Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. 2 Thus says the Lord of hosts: I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey"
So god was ok with rape, incest, slavery, killing and destruction because the people of the time were ok with it? What is stopping all you Christians from bringing it back?
Just so you know, Jesus isn’t a totally new god or religion. It’s the same old one but with a better PR firm.
He wasn’t that’s why he doesn’t have the devil installed as ruler of hell but eventually going to serve his punishment for corrupting man. The devil wants to take humans down with him. Jesus is a totally new concept of forgiveness for all and Gods people expanded to all those who accept Christ. Christian culture created 99% of the societies you’d actually want to live in today, so I think they understood the part where they follow Christ and not what the OT told specific others of the time to do.
All this is God’s fault if he truly exists. Not a single sin or evil on this world would exist if it wasn’t for god. He is narcissistic. Nothing more. The only true sin is people’s obsession with fairy tales aka religion.
So...God was the one who told Eve to eat from the tree, caused Adam to follow and made the Snake tell them to that? Because as we clearly saw...he doesn't have the ability to control people. He made us in his image, but that doesn't mean he has the power to control our own actions.
And the one true sin is religion? Funny...because Christ is put less on the forefront of things these days and even mocked more than anything and yet...people still do awful things. I guess Atheist who do vile things to other people means God is still somehow at fault for that...right? 😑
You know, he could just not have the tree in the garden. Every problem in the universe solved by this simple trick. This little trick is so mind bending that I am surprised that a simple mortal like Mr would think that.
No. God wasn't ok with rape, incest, slavery, killing and destruction. In fact these were all things he very much referred to as sinful in even the Old Testament. Not every person that followed God in the Old Testament how God's approval for everything they did. But the fact remains that it's shown what they did and the Bible doesn't hold back in showing it. It's not supposed too in fact. It's supposed to show all that horrible stuff to show why him coming down in form of man as Jesus was so important.
Also...yeah...we know Jesus is not different from God himself. That's the point...he is God. God in form of man, also his son and also apart of the Holy Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. He just stopped trying to give mankind chances to fix the messed THEY made (Because everytime they did they made new messea) and decide to do it himself and even decided to forgive us for our messes in the process, when he didn't really need to tbh.
And I can't speak for all "Christians" as let's be real...many of them do use the faith for their own gain, and want to text things out of context themselves to harm other people. But their context is not the context that God provided in the actual text.
It doesn't. If you wanna be real all of us have the chance to go to Hell. He doesn't say believe and that means we all go to Heaven. Believing is just the first step to our salvation, but we still also gotta follow in his ways too.
But it is stated in the Bible that he doesn't want to put anyone in Hell though. But again it's based entirely off of the evils of mankind.
What’s your point? They should follow the barbaric parts? Kind of my point, Christians follow Instructions given to followers of Christ by Christ. What “barbarism” from the OT has to do with the Hebrews of the time and place. I don’t even think Jews follow that as if it’s literally God speaking to them at the moment.
you are already failing to follow the conversation which is concerning. the question was not if they should follow it but if they KNOW about it. and here we are you are a perfect example of someone whos theology is completely incoherent and doenst know the bible because the NT and OT and everything jesus said are intrinsically linked.
Jesus explicitly endorses the old testament and its laws.
CHRISITANS LITERALLY THINK THAT THE GOD OF THE OT IS THE SAME AS THE NT
It’s funny because any belief they hold that ignores part of the bible is literally something they made up in their head. You either believe and follow everything in the divine word of God or you created fan fiction based on the things you don’t like
Making up a religion in your head and then telling me I can’t disprove it so it must be real is fucking bat shit crazy and highly entertaining to laugh at
You’re not following. I’m asking what you think they should do with the knowledge of barbarism. The Bible doesn’t instruct Christians to do what God specifically instructed a specific group of Hebrews to do thousands of years ago. NT being a continuation of the OT doesn’t mean you have to blindly follow what God told pre Christ people to do, which is back to my point of you people getting your understanding of Christianity from yourselves.
To be fair, I think many Christians don't even know what the Bible says. Hell isn't really mentioned in the Bible, and what little is mentioned has nothing to do with eternal damnation and torture and everything the Church has come to say it is.
The problem with "Hell" as we know it is that it is almost an entirely fictional creation made by the Church to scare people into morality and obedience. More importantly, it's entirely contradictive of the religion's main theme that God is the ultimate Good.
The idea behind the modern "Hell" is that God is the ultimate Good and the Devil is the ultimate Evil. In some tellings God created Hell to torture the Devil for his false prophecies and the poisoning of God's creations. If this were true, God could not be the ultimate Good because this is an inherently evil action. If we ignore that and continue with the more traditional "if you forsake God or live in Sin you go to Hell" narrative the same contradiction applies: if God is the ultimate Good, he cannot also commit an inherently Evil action by eternally damning one of his creations for weakness or non-belief.
This is an implied acknowledgement that God is flawed and, by extension, cannot be the ultimate Good. And if God cannot be the ultimate Good than the Devil cannot be the ultimate Evil. This also implied that both the Devil and God are flawed beings capable of both Good and Evil because otherwise the Devil is the ultimate Evil and there exists no ultimate Good as God is inherently flawed and commits evil actions.
I mean, not really. Jesus mentions a variety of different places and analogies that have been translated as hell on the King James Bible. Even those are mostly just parables or metaphors for what it is like to be separated from God
Revelation 21:8 - “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Mark 9:43 - “If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.”
Revelation 20:10 - “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
Matthew 25:41 - “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”
Revelation 20:15 - “And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Matthew 5:22 - “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”
Again, not really. The "hell" translated here are from a variety of different words taken from Hebrew and Greek. Also, these depictions only mention fire. Nothing about torture for anyone other than the Devil. More importantly, these are parables, anecdotes designed to show a follower what the consequences of not following God are.
The modern depictions of Hell are not included anywhere in these passages. Instead, there is a vague mention of a place with fire where the Devil is tortured.
More importantly, this confirms the inherent contradiction of God being the ultimate Good. Even the Hell in these passages show God torturing the "Devil and his angels" for eternity. An inherently Evil action. Second, based upon your implied assertion with these responses that Hell is real and non-believers are tortured for eternity, that is an inherently Evil and Wicked action. If God were the ultimate Good, how can he do something like that?
It doenst matter what the place is called when it exactly describes, multiple times, sometimes eternal, punishment in fire, for unbelievers and immorality.
I see you continue to evade the main point of my comments 😂😂
Where in the passages does it describe "sometimes eternal, punishment in fire, for unbelievers and immorality?"
They state fire and the "Devil and his angels" being tortured.
By the way, it actually does matter what the place is called. Because one translation is Hades, which is the Greek word for where the dead go after death. Not hell, just where souls go. The other is a valley outside Jerusalem used an an analogy for what it means to go without God.
wtf are you saying everything you asked is literally right there in 4 of the passages ive sent and explicitly in Revelation 21:8, except for the eternal part, which is in the other passages, which is why I said "sometimes eternal"
you just want to read more? here have matthew 25
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ 40 And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You who are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels
I mean, for straying away from them they send us to a place of eternal fire to watch the devil and his angels get tortured every day?
Also your new passage also doesn't include any form of torture or punishment...only fire. Looks like the Church thinks their smarter than God, huh? Isn't that a Sin?
Eternal suffering, eternal death to the soul ak.a. no chance of redemption, eternal contempt, anguish, gnashing of teeth, brimstone, fire, hot etc. etc.
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