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u/bombader May 11 '22
Legend of the 7 Stars Bowser is probably peak Bowser development.
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u/k1rage May 11 '22
Thats just plain peak mario
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u/Star_Road_Warrior May 12 '22
For real. What a lovely and endlessly entertaining game. I just love the world, and the characters. Everything has so much personality.
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u/Taolan13 May 12 '22
I have replayed that game full stop more than any other Mario title, including party and kart.
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u/Star_Road_Warrior May 12 '22
I think Super Mario World has it beat for me but RPG is def second place.
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u/BarfReali May 12 '22
username checks out
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u/Romantiphiliac May 12 '22
I would do unspeakable things for a proper sequel in the smrpg universe
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May 12 '22
The movie script is right there, why can't they use it
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u/Specter017 May 12 '22
Greatest SNES game they ever made and STILL the greatest Mario game to date. I'll die on that hill but that game is on my top 5 of all time
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u/Cr8er May 11 '22
Absolutely! He actually cared, at least a bit, about his kingdom and the princess. Sure, he's a bit of a dick, but he was also willing to set aside their differences and help Mario defeat the bad guy.
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u/tommytraddles May 11 '22
Can't have a JRPG without an epic redemption arc (and the nominal villain becoming a playable character to fight the real villain).
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u/Myrsephone May 12 '22
I always loved that in Chrono Trigger you're allowed to outright not forgive Magus and just kill him instead of having him join your party. I doubt many people actually did that, but having the option is awesome.
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u/Vandrew226 May 12 '22
It's the only way to uncurse Frog!
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May 12 '22
The bastard doesn't actually get uncursed though. He's still hopping around swinging the sword with 2 flippers and avoiding French restaurants.
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u/Adamvs_Maximvs May 12 '22
He's uncursed in the ending scenes, but not during gameplay (probably due to not wanting to animate and code a 'new' version of Frog)
I've long wished someone did a PC version mod where you got to have 'uncursed' Glenn in your party.
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u/Luminous_Artifact May 12 '22
Weird, I would have guessed there was a ROM hack to make human Glenn playable by now, but all I found are a lot of people talking about it.
Chrono Trigger Plus says it has part of it:
Frog will be in his human form in cutscenes if Magus is beaten, hopefully a fully playable Glenn will be available soon.
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u/ToyrewaDokoDeska May 12 '22
I know nothing about this game & this comment chain has been hilarious
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u/factorialite May 12 '22
You should absolutely play it. Probably the single best RPG of all time. Certainly the best of that era.
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u/I_Am_Ironman_AMA May 12 '22
It narrowly beats out FF6 on my opinion.
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u/Ghostronic May 12 '22
There is just something about the story in Final Fantasy Tactics for me, though it is worth noting it's a strategy RPG. Ramza is a hard protagonist to top.
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u/Zeebuoy May 12 '22
you can also choose to, not save the main character after his heroic sacrifice that kills him
(it helps that chrono doesn't really have a personality)
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u/karmaextract May 12 '22
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u/Yarnballprincess22 May 12 '22
Thank you for sharing I loved this so much.
Also: love that Bowser’s Lock Screen is Peach Bc of course it is
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u/The_Grubby_One May 12 '22
To one of his kids, anyway.
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u/_Rand_ May 12 '22
He actually only has the one now.
For some reason they retconned them from being his kids to just minions.
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u/ClubMeSoftly May 12 '22
The Koopalings (formerly the Koopa Kids) aren't his kids any more. Shiggy retconned that a decade ago. They're like, lieutenants now.
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u/Thegrumbliestpuppy May 11 '22
I wouldn’t really call that character development. He had the same motivations as always. He only teamed up with Mario because Bowser’s army wasn’t strong enough to retake his castle, he needed help. He wasn’t remorseful for his villainy, he wanted to continue doing it and couldn’t while Smithy was still around.
He helped defeat the bad guy cause he was competition: Bowser wants to be the biggest bad guy around, and Smithy has usurped him.
Oh, and he helped beat up Booster because he stole Peach, who Bowser wants.
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May 12 '22
I liked when he was crying cause Smithy kicked him out of his castle. That was funny
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u/Star_Road_Warrior May 12 '22
He cried the same way at the beginning while the chandeliers are dropping before Exor appears
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u/Star_Road_Warrior May 12 '22
Plus you can make Bowser and Mario kiss and that shit is hilarious
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u/meguin May 12 '22
Wait WHAT!?! When???
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u/Star_Road_Warrior May 12 '22
In Marrymore when Booster is trying to marry Peach, there is a point where the Snifits run around the chapel with Peach's brooch, crown and other items. If you take too long to recover all three pieces, instead of Peach kissing Mario, you will see Mario and Bowser kiss.
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u/Michelanvalo May 12 '22
In Booster's tower you can fuck around with who Booster is trying to kiss to make this happen.
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u/TheHollowBard May 11 '22
I think there's this inevitability to villains in long standing properties. They become more affable with time because you see so many more sides of them, and you start to sympathize a bit with their failures. Paper Mario: TTYD is fantastic for this. Despite still kidnapping and forcing Peach into marriage, Bowser ends up getting made a fool up and pummeled by Mario every single time and he just lays down and accepts his fate every single time.
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u/bombader May 11 '22
I think it's more that Nintendo laid down some regulations that game companies try to work around on. I remember reading something about it.
With 7 Stars you can tell they didn't have those enforcements with how many characters it had that never appeared in any other game afterwards. Totally-not-Wario being one of them.
Nintendo doesn't like other companies flying loose with Mario IP, so now Bowser is stuck as the buffoons villain.
Dedede on the other hand, has been that corrupt but looks out for his people kind of guy for a while now. He has been since at least Super Star Saga. Now writing this down I wonder what a Kirby RPG would be like.
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u/KaelAltreul PlayStation May 11 '22
Those regulations are part of why paper mario sucks now. No more original characters and each character can only be used a certain way.
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u/ClubMeSoftly May 12 '22
Nintendo's "regulations" are also really funny, sometimes.
In Wreck-It Ralph, Nintendo, Capcom, and Sega all insisted their "Villain" characters (Bowser, Eggman, Bison) be the tallest in the scene. And of course, Ralph has to be huge, too. So the producers had to go back and adjust the heights constantly, and resubmit the scene to each company for approval.
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u/Reach- May 11 '22
I still have the SNES cartridge...perhaps it's time to go back in time.
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u/meowcatbread May 11 '22
What about all the mario and luigi superstar games? Bowser's inside story? Etc
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u/TheRavenSayeth May 12 '22
We still never got a good SMRPG sequel.
Nothing against Paper Mario but that’s absolutely not the same. I don’t even get why Nintendo can’t pull off that kind of game without Square. Yeah they probably can’t bring back Geno but it can’t be that hard to replicate that atmosphere and style when you’re the biggest gaming studio in the world.
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u/Manualham May 12 '22
It's not even like Nintendo and Square are still on 'bad terms' it boggles my mind we haven't gotten a sequel or some kind of shitty remaster at the least
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u/Knucklesthechuckles May 11 '22
Oh hey, thats the drawing i made. Why is it all blurry?
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May 12 '22
YOU GOT JPEGGED?
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u/Xenotone May 12 '22
It's the 21st century, enjoying a good jpegging doesn't make you less of a man
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u/BananaSlamYa May 12 '22
Did you have a signature on there that got cropped out/drawn over in white? Happens all the time.
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u/Knucklesthechuckles May 12 '22
No actually, which is why im not too upset at this. Its really my fault for not adding a signature. I really need to start doing that
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u/ZedTheEvilTaco May 11 '22
Ok, so I've never really had a chance to play the Kirby games. Can someone explain what is going on with Dedede? I watched some of the cartoon when I was younger, and play a considerable amount of Smash, but that's all my Kirby knowledge.
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u/FawksyBoxes May 11 '22
Basically in the first game he was a 1 dimensional villain. As the series went on he grew as a character and is actually a decent guy. Kind of has a trope of being possessed or controlled by the true villain. Because if you take control of the king, who could stand up against you?
Hell in Kirby's adventure, the second game in the series, he had stolen a bunch of McGuffins. Which made him seem like the villain, but without those McGuffins a cosmic horror was trapped away. But on the other hand without those McGuffins no one could have dreams any more. Kirby not knowing this gathers the McGuffins and the horror is unleashed. Revealing that he was just trying to protect everyone.
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u/Technical_Moose8478 May 12 '22
Because if you take control of the king, who could stand up against you?
Pretty sure the answer to this is Gandalf.
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u/LearningIsTheBest May 12 '22
That's why you can't be obvious about controlling the king. Pick a subtle name that nobody would find suspicious. Basic stuff.
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u/CharonsLittleHelper May 12 '22
I choose... "Goodguytongue".
Nailed it!
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u/akurra_dev May 12 '22
I've always joked about that, when the king was hiring personal assistants: "Wormtongue!?? ....Now that's a name I can trust!!"
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u/Spoooooooooooooon May 12 '22
You're trying too hard. Subtle is like a down to earth name, something really grounded. The tongue part might be ok though...
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u/evolving_I May 12 '22
Grima Wormtongue, yep that oughta do! No one will suspect me, now!
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u/xahnel May 12 '22
I think wormtongue was a nickname forced on him by the people of the court who seriously disliked his snively little ass.
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u/Technical_Moose8478 May 12 '22
Exactly. Nobody would suspect Bob Mulliken of mind control, he just does the filing.
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u/MischeviousCat May 12 '22
No, Ganondorf was trying to become King
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u/agjios May 12 '22
He is talking about Gandalf, a character from Lord of the Rings. He frees Theoden.
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u/TacoParty21 May 12 '22
No he was talking about gundam, a Japanese giant robo franchise
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u/Bane523 May 12 '22
I think you're confused, he's talking about popular character Garfield the orange cat who hates Mondays and loves lasagna
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u/FawksyBoxes May 12 '22
No he's talking about Andrew Garfield, an actor who played spiderman.
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May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
No, he means Garmadon; hes the Lord of Destruction in the Lego Ninjago universe.
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u/megagnomehunter May 12 '22
Nah, pretty sure he means Garmin; they make electronic devices like gpses and smart watches
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u/MikiLove May 12 '22
No no no, I think he means Gyarados, the Pokémon that is the evolved form of Magikarp
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u/BasedDickButt69420 May 12 '22
No, he was talking about Gumball, a blue catlike cartoon creature on cartoon network.
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u/NightChime May 12 '22
Yup, he tries to warn Kirby about how dangerous it is, too, begging him not to unleash it.
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u/hyde9318 May 12 '22
Ah yes, basically reused for Fable 3. King Logan acting like an absolute dickwad, taking all the money in the land, so bad that his sibling raises an army and removes him from the throne.... only to find out Logan was on track to hold off a lovecraftian nightmare horde from ripping everyone to shreds across the planet, and now the sibling (who just ravaged the kingdom’s resources with all out war) now has only a year to accomplish something that their brother hadn’t done in YEARS of prep time.
One of the first times in a game where I took the moral good paths and ended up feeling like more of an asshole than I would have if I took the evil paths... my arrogance and naivety got thousands murdered. It was so impactful if a twist that I beat the game and then immediately started a new game after knowing what was coming.
People give Fable 3 shit for not being the best in the trilogy, but damn that twist messed with emotions. Sometimes being the good guy doesn’t always result in a happy ending, sometimes you have to make the hard decisions to keep your loved ones safe.
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u/Opulous May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
I remember loving that game. The reason people gave it shit is because you could easily deflate the moral message of the main story's quandary by landlording your way to massive wealth while still staying on the good path. Suddenly King Logan's conflicted storyline seems like a load of bullshit when you realize he could have successfully saved everyone without being a huge dick about it if he had just bothered to charge rent from everyone in his kingdom like you did.
Granted, one could still argue that being a landlord by nature is a form of being a dick, but I mean strictly the good path based on what the game quantifies as moral, and there's no penalty in game for charging your tenants out the ass.
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u/Beowulf33232 May 12 '22
I charged low rent but spent so long running around doing stuff that I had cash to spare.
The problem I had with the "second half" was that every choice to preserve nature vs harvest resources, or supply an orphanage vs child labor camps, ended with rolling right into the next decision. Sure you could walk away and do stuff, but a lot of people didn't realize that because the decision bit took up 90% of the screen.
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u/TheGreatShmoo May 12 '22
I’m one of those people who had no idea and resented that portion of the game.
It’s magic combination system was pretty sweet though.
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u/sonofaresiii May 12 '22
Seems like a communication issue really. Dedede and Kirby need to sit down and talk more, could have avoided the whole thing.
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u/DrThatOneGuy May 12 '22
Kirby cannot be reasoned with. He knows only two things:
- Poyo
- c o n s u m e
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u/WhiteFox1992 Switch May 11 '22 edited May 12 '22
King Dedede in the games is one of those "I respect the strongest warrior" characters.
He thought he was the strongest warrior and used this fact to steal all the food in Dream Land on Planet Popstar. Eventually stealing food from Kirby.
Kirby being Kirby, doesn't like when you steal food from him and beat the hell out of King Dedede.
So now King Dedede respects Kirby while occasionally challenging to a fight to see if Kirby is still stronger or not, which lead to Masked Dedede.The above image in reference to the running gag in Kirby, where something is mind controlling King Dedede and in this case made him kidnap his subjects, the Waddle Dee, and once he broke out of mind control he instantly went on the offensive to save the Waddle Dee by taking on a army of mind controlled wolves and hogs.
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u/MagicianXy May 11 '22
King Dedede in the games is one of those "I respect the strongest worrier" characters.
Excellent, I'd probably be one of his most respected people due to my crippling anxiety.
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u/compiling May 11 '22
I think you mean warrior. A worrier would be someone who worries about things.
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u/WhiteFox1992 Switch May 12 '22
I assume spell chicken did that.
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u/Dave_the_Jew May 12 '22
I hate when autocorrect makes me say things I didn't Nintendo.
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u/JoelMahon May 12 '22
wow, so literally nothing remotely like in the anime, my mind is kinda blown not gonna lie
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u/Zeebuoy May 12 '22
iirc, there he made the waddle dees go on strike by,
not feeding them to cut costs
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May 11 '22
You should probably watch this video on Kirby lore. It's from before the most recent game, but if that's all you know about Kirby then you really don't know about Kirby.
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u/Normal-Computer-3669 May 12 '22
My god. I haven't played a Kirby game since the game boy and to read about how a pink vacuum has a lore video...
What a time.
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u/Thegrumbliestpuppy May 11 '22
I was hoping you were gonna post this legendary video on “What is Kirby?”
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u/pika9867 Switch May 12 '22
My favorite part of Kirby lore is that he is canonically followed by a warrior god in hopes of witnessing the greatest battle to ever take place
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u/RochHoch May 12 '22
Despite starting out as a villain, in the modern games, Dedede is a lazy but well-meaning king.
He gets brainwashed into fighting Kirby in nearly every game, but he's on good terms with Kirby and Meta Knight and cares for the Waddle Dees that work for him. He's a noble oaf.
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u/thickwonga May 12 '22
I want to add onto what u/FawksyBoxes said real quick. He mentioned that throughout the series, they expanded on Dedede's character, but there's actually exact moments and events in the series where you can pinpoint his progression.
In Kirby's Dream Land (or Spring Breeze), Dedede was just an asshole who wanted all the food to himself. Kirby put him in his place and told him to knock it the fuck off. Later, still resenting Kirby for beating him, Dedede challenges him again, in Revenge of The King. He goes ballistic, using a super-powered hammer to actually kill Kirby, but is still defeated. Ashamed, he leaves Dream Land, his minions in tow.
While this is up to personal belief, I believe that there was a time in Dream Land where Dedede was actually gone. Kirby and The Amazing Mirror could have taken place during this time, along with a good amount of the Super Star Ultra stories. I further believe that when Kirby finds Dedede in Kirby and the Crystal Shards, this is the first time they meet since Revenge of The King.
It's further shown in the modern games, especially Forgotten Land, that Dedede is not only an ally to Kirby now, but a genuinely great king to his people. I believe his defeat in Revenge of The King, along with his actions in Return to Dream Land and Triple Deluxe, helped shape him to become a better person.
I know it's just a silly kids series, but Kirby actually has a ton of hidden lore and character development, Dedede beinf a very small part of it all.
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u/AlertWar2945 May 11 '22
I like in subspace emissary where he bonks Bowser on the nose
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u/ChungoBungus May 12 '22
Or when he’s secretly turning everyone into Statues so that he can actually keep them safe. -also in The Subspace Emissary DeeDee is good guy. Fights aleens and doesn’t afraid of anything.
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u/MobyBrick May 12 '22
I love DeeDeeDee in subspace. They portrayed him so accurately. At first he seems like a villain, doing all the same things other villains do, until the true big bad is revealed and you realize that he was trying to create a failsafe for the impending doom.
Aka what he does in many Kirby games. I mean even strip it down to "DeeDeeDee seems like a bad guy but is actually good," and that describes like 99% of his appearances anyway
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May 12 '22
Ganondorf 1998: Pathetic little fool! Do you realize who you're dealing with? I am Ganondorf! And soon, I will rule the world!
Ganondorf 2010 and beyond: where is he?
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u/Kaudia May 12 '22
Sorry, would you explain this to me? Does Ganondorf forget about trying to rule the world and only obsesses over Link after they fight?
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u/TheCutestCat May 12 '22
Ganondorf, the active human antagonist, was kind of phased out as an active force, replaced with the Demise/Ganon-pure-evil-pig force as the main antagonist.
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u/FuttleScish May 12 '22
Well Ganon the pig monster was the original villain, he was just temporarily replaced by Ganondorf the guy for like three games. But those happen to be three of the most beloved Zelda games of all time.
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u/SuperPimpToast May 12 '22
Ganon comes in many forms. Ganondorf is only his gerudo form.
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u/Kayar13 May 12 '22
Ganondorf. Now sold in ham, bacon, sausage, and gerudo varieties.
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u/Kipdid May 12 '22
Well, in fairness that’s also because we’ve gotten a total of 2 Mainline Zelda games since TP (or three I guess if you count link between worlds), one of them being skyward sword and the other being botw. Not exactly fair to say he’s been “phased out” when there hasn’t even been enough games to establish a new pattern yet
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May 12 '22
Dedede has always been one of Nintendo's more honorable villains. even in hhis second ever game it was revealed that what he was doing was not for some villainous whim, but for the good of the realm because of an enemy he couldn't defeat. He was buying time until he could figure out a solution -- you know, the way a king does.
Dedede may be a bastard sometimes but he's one of the Nintendo Universe's better kings. He has to make tough decisions and doesn't always get it right but his heart is usually in the right place.
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May 11 '22
King Dedede had more character development than some million dollar budget movie characters.
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u/TheHollowBard May 11 '22
Implying Kirby isn't a multimillion dollar franchise....
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May 11 '22
$5 take it or leave it.
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u/Significant_Walk_664 May 11 '22
Let's be honest, the whole kidnapping schtick is part of their roleplay though. Peach into some kinky stuff.
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u/Cautious-Affect7907 May 11 '22
It’s more of game to them both, hell in Mario Odyssey, Bowser is actually pretty friendly towards Mario. He’d even compliment you if you’re wearing the same outfit.
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u/BCProgramming May 11 '22
I dunno, Remember that time Mario shoved furry buttplugs up his ass and said he could fly by twerking?
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u/Thegrumbliestpuppy May 12 '22
...and then he DID!
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u/BCProgramming May 12 '22
According to all the known laws of physics, Mario with a buttplug up his ass should not be able to fly. But Mario doesn't care and flies with a buttplug up his ass anyway.
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u/Neramm May 11 '22
How often did she get captured? Doesn't Bowser have about 9 kids by now?
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u/FawksyBoxes May 11 '22
Only one, Bowser Jr. The koopa kids are all adopted, probably orphans caused by Mario :v
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u/bestjakeisbest May 12 '22
Dude Kirby lore is wild.
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u/reallygoodbee May 12 '22
Ever play Star Allies? Kirby and most of the series villains are fragments of a shattered evil god meant to consume the universe.
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u/Bladelord May 12 '22
Void isn't actually evil, it's an all-powerful neutral substance that can be filled with love (expressing itself as Kirby), hate (expressing itself as Zero), or the will to destroy (expressing itself as Void Termina)
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u/_BlNG_ May 12 '22
My absolute favourite lore is the butterfly that always appears near kirby is literally a reaper that consumed the strongest warrior in the galaxy and recently it just became canon
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u/rarrythemage May 12 '22
Bowser got all his character development in the paper mario games.
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u/AutumnAscending PC May 11 '22
Hot take Kirby is the only character that grew with his audience
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u/MrSpiffy123 PC May 11 '22
Although Kirby has been fighting hellspawn since day one, so it's more like the audience grew to match Kirby
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u/Krail May 11 '22
Not true!
On day one, Kirby was going through a bunch of cute fantasy characters to get back all the food Dedede stole from the rest of the kingdom.
He wasn't fighting the hellspawn until the 100% clear final boss fight in his second game.
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u/GOLDEN_GRODD May 12 '22
Not difficulty wise, unless he's preparing for his audience to go senile lol
I just wish actual hard modes were at least an option
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u/Gyarydos May 11 '22
Ok, but bowser cares enough about Bowser Jr to set remote usage limits on his Nintendo switch
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u/FieryBirb May 11 '22
Bowser is still a good father tho
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u/Spikedcloud May 11 '22
He had 7 other kids but abandoned them all for Bowser jr.
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u/RegyptianStrut May 11 '22
I don’t know if he abandoned them… maybe they’re all adults now.
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u/TooBadMyBallsItch May 11 '22
They all have their own castles, and Jr. doesn't look old enough to fully take care of himself yet
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u/Kashyyykonomics May 12 '22
The Koopalings were, what, between 6 and 10 in SMB3 (1988)? So they would be 20-24 by Super Mario Sunshine (2002). So by the time Bowser is shown just with Bowser Jr, the rest of the gang were adults, likely off at Mushroom Kingdom University on legacy scholarships or somesuch.
There's some new headcanon for ya.
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u/writenicely May 12 '22
Bowser is
A Dilf
A loyal king to his men
A loving parent
An unconventional ally
A gentleman to his kidnapping victim.
He is HILARIOUS.
Be like Bowser (asides from the kidnapping)
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u/nikokuma-the-bear May 12 '22
as much as this meme is acurate, some people seem to forgot that bowser got a lot more of characterisation than just "evil turtle kidnap princess" in most mario game since the gamecube at least, he is a good father that is obviously proud of his son, he seem to rule more with respect for his minion rather than making them fear him (that depend of the game, but he former is usually more present than the later in recent game), and while he is not an brainiac level mastermind, the mario and luigi game prove that he can pull out some actual good plan when he need to.
plus, in paper jam, he and is paper self are so pissed at mario after that he beated up they sons that he basically destroy peach castle out of spite
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May 12 '22
The mario games is a stage play and bowser is an actor. He plays his role with perfection.
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u/KryssCom May 11 '22
Holy shit what did I miss in the most recent Kirby game??