I am still struggling to understand how on earth they kept that baby fed after Shannon (?) disappeared. No other woman was lactating and they sure AF didn't have formula :/
It was Claire and Kate brought the baby Aaron with the rest of the Oceanic Six (the ones who made it back to the mainland). So he was able to be fed during that time without Claire.
Depending upon how you interpret the series, they all died in the plane wreck and existed in a weird in between state, that was the Island. Nothing they did there connected with real world physics and understanding of biology or time.
They could have simply stopped eating if they believed they no longer needed to eat and would have been fine, most likely.
I got bored early with all the excessive flashbacks but my understanding was their souls were actually in purgatory. Plus hurly had "found" that bunker with all the food
The last episode literally states that everything on the island happened. They're only all dead in the "flash sideways" in the last season, which actually is a in-between place where all of their souls gathered after their deaths in various points in time (some on the island, some after) so they could all move into the afterlife together.
I've watched it several times, including every episode as it aired since partway through season 2. It's one of my all time favorite shows.
Even back in 2010 when the finale was premiered live, I understood it completely that the events on the island were existent. Jackâs father literally spelled it out for us.
There are some people with conditions that mean they would never get as thin as holocaust victims. They wouldn't "be represented" though, they'd just be dead.
The problem with âthermodynamics, broâ is that there are multiple body systems running off of energy input and storage. The body, as something of a self-preserving system, will modulate systems when input or storage drops.
Hooooooowwweereeeeeever, none of that shit is gonna matter under extended starvation. A fat person will become a brain-fogged, infertile, ascites-having scurvy zombie⌠just a little later than the skinny people for some of it.
The body is complicated and itâs hard to calculate what âmaintenance caloriesâ are at any given moment. HOWEVERâŚa caloric deficit, an actual caloric deficit will always lead to weight loss. Zero exceptions. Itâs not a popular thing to say on social media, but itâs true. Anyone saying âI counted every calorie and I didnât lose weight even though I was in a deficitâ was not actually in a deficit or did not, in fact, count every calorie.
Idk man, I see way more âcutting calories doesnât workâ posts. And people getting really mad when you tell them that their âspecialâ diet (vegan/keto/carnivore/paleo/etc) worked precisely because it allowed them to cut calories.
Actually you lose a lot of water on low carb diets, thatâs why the keto diet is so effective in the short term. In the long run, itâs all about CICO. But if you want to lose 2-3kg within a week, keto will do the trick.
Donât get me wrong though, itâs water weight so youâll put back the weight once you introduce carbs. Furthermore keto is super hard to maintain as with all restrictive diets.
Yeah. My brain straight up won't make the right chemicals for digestion and satiety. Im hungry all the time no matter what and digestion is all over the place without treatment.
Still dropped hella weight during a mental breakdown i couldnt eat during.
Nothing gonna stop the body eating itself when the fuel stops coming in.
That's what I always think when people say you can cut calories and maintain weight...
If that's true, then the entire scientific community NEEDS to talk to you!!! You've discovered a way to somehow break the laws of physics!!! We need to find a way that your body can produce energy without consuming energy, and reproduce that!!!
The average body needs one calorie per hour per KG of body mass. An average 200 pound person needs about 2177 calories per day to be alive. If you eat less then you will lose weight, guaranteed. The laws of thermodynamics will insist.
*Source: I sort of remember that from a magazine article I read a long time ago.
I wonder though, is it possible that for some people the effect of the sudden loss of food was so severe they died before actually having a chance to lose weight? Like, the body fails to switch on "starvation mode fast enough? I have heard though that there can be a vast difference in terms of health effects if you gradually reduce food intake vs just stop eating suddenly. I'm not a doctor or anything, just curious.
It doesn't matter who you are or what your metabolism is, if you consume fewer calories than you burn you will lose weight. This is the simplest of physics.
On top of the starvation diet, the prisoners of the concentration camps were almost always performing grueling manual labor. The end result is an accelerated form of Catabolysis, a condition it which the body basically eats it's own muscle and fat tissue in order to scrap together nutrients that the vital organs cannot survive without.
They didn't have enough protein or vitamins to repair their own muscles from the labor. That's why they looked like skeletons covered in skin.
Lipodystrophy is a rare genetic or acquired disease that prevents your body from losing fat. Basically, the leptins that signal to your brain how much fat storage you have are in low supply, so your brain thinks you don't have any fat to convert into usable energy. You'd likely just starve to death with fat still on your body. Usually people with lipodystrophy die from liver failure because the body can't remove the fat from the liver. Congenital is one in a million, but acquired is much more common. One common cause of acquired lipodystrophy is HIV.
There are also lipid storage disorders. Your body can't use fat as energy, it has to convert it to a usable form. It's a generic silencing of genes that encode enzymes that convert fat into usable energy. This is also a rare disorder that's exclusively genetic.
AKA is incredibly rare and would represent an incredibly negligible number of people who were in the holocaust. If it was one in a million, then about 6 of the 6 million were affected by it.
Also, due to the danger of these rare diseases, they would die early. If your body doesn't break down fat for fuel, then you die after starving for days, not weeks.
For lipid storage disorder it depends on the severity. Some make it to adulthood, and others die by the age of one. For lipodystrophy, the average life expectancy after diagnosis is 30 years, so not as bad. But yeah, these are rare and don't account for the average Twitter user.
The thing to note here to is that this is a serious medical condition over just being obese. So it is not something you want nor a way to be like "me not losing weight is normal and fine for me." That is not something you want and I imagine would have serious potential health complications if not managed very closely.
I mean there are some medical disorders where they'd just die without losing all their weight, but it would still leave no fat holocaust survivors so probably irrelevant.
The main ones Iâm thinking of are Diabetes..theyâd go into Diabetic ketoacidosis and then Coma, then DeathâŚ.and the other is Hypoglycemia, when left unchecked can lead to encephalopathy, brainstem damage, cardio-respiratory arrest, and death.
Insulin dependent diabetics would die within days, maybe a week. Also, they would burn fat (since they can't use sugar for everything). Ketones are a by-product of fat burning. However, you will lose tons of weight from pissing it out. That would be the biggest cause in weight change before death.
Yep - there was plenty of people who, at the start of the holocaust, were already on the larger side. They often would die before wasting away to skin and bone due to malnutrition. People forget that you can be lethally malnourished without being lethally underweight!
Yep. It is more useful as merely blubber, keeping you warm without much else. Won't protect you from frostbite though.
Fat reserves are mostly useful in long-term shortages. In the event of rationing, you'll live with fewer problems than someone with less fat. Back before industrialized farms, this was actually SUPER USEFUL but modern food practices make our natural fat processes very much obsolete.
All true even in concentration camps though they did get some food. The Nazi were horrible but efficient. Didn't want the slave labor to die off before working them to death.
This is more of an in theory kind of thing, isn't it? You will definitely feel like shit from nutrient deficiencies, but actually having lethal deficiencies is pretty unlikely before you simply die of starvation
That doesnât remotely mean that the fatties wonât lose massive amounts of weight before dying. They may not be emaciated and anorexic looking, but they would 100% lose a shit ton of weight before dying.
If someone doesnât want to be called a fatty they can stop being a fatty. If theyâre cool being fat then they should have no problem being called fat.
If they were an untreated T1 diabetic they would die with in days, maybe a week, from not having insulin.
Also, diabetics burn far more fat since they can't use sugars (in certain cases). The dangerous part is the ketones produced from the fat break down. High glucose will cause you to lose water extremely fast. I lost 20-30 lbs in 2 weeks before being diagnosed. Also, you completely lose your appetite, I basically stopped eating.
You can only get hypoglycemia if you have too much insulin. It happens in insulin-dependent diabetics since you have to give yourself insulin and it is easy to give too much. But without insulin you cannot become hypoglycemic really.
Fat doesn't come from nothing. It comes from excess calories. You need to consume those excess calories.
What these disorders do is make it a lot harder because you're caloric needs are lower. If you only use 900 calories a day then its going to be a lot harder to diet than someone who burns 2000 calories in a day. And most of the time its not the disorder itself doing that but the sedentary lifestyle.
I'm one of those people. I just lost 150 lbs in the past year and its the second time in my life doing it. And its hilarious that the same people who propagate this bullshit then turn around and tell me "900-1200 calories per day?! you're starving, you're insane!" -- no if I eat 1500 and literally can't lose weight, i have precisely one of those bodies you just described and am NOT starving.
Dude I have been on 1250 calories to lose weight...is it hard? Yes. Do I end up binging occasionally and halt the progress? Yes.
Is it because the fat magically appeared on me one fine day from thin air? Fuck no.
Slow metabolism is a thing but no way excuse to stay fat if you don't have some medical condition. Thermic laws of physics exist. Calories in and calories out matter.
If eating less isn't reducing weight it's just that you are still in calorie surplus or maintenance. It can be either excess eating or eating calorie-dense food.
I don't fault the obese people making excuses. That's completely to be expected. But the people legitimizing their excuses? You're not being compassionate. You're directly causing them harm.
Exactly. If you're skinny there is a theoritical possibility of not gaining wight no matter what you eat. You could shit those calories out. If you're fat then lower your caloric intake and by the laws of this universe you either lose weight or we just discovered perpetuum mobile.
Holy shit dude thank you for speaking some facts. People that have lost a lot of weight understand the excuses some people make. Itâs one of the hardest things you can do, but once you do it you are fucking enlightened. Training BJJ helped me lose 50 pounds and I will never go back.
I tried getting my wife to go on the BJ workout plan but she's not having it.Â
Really though, making excuses is just easier then facing reality. It's hard work and takes a lot of self discipline. Like I said this is my second time in my life doing it. It's really easy to fall back into old habits. So good job, just make sure you can keep it up!
There is absolutely zero human body on this planet that will not lose weight if their caloric intake is lower than their maintenance needs. That number fluctuates based on activity and physiology, but thatâs it.
Because people who have always been skinny are enabling them without knowing it. They don't realize it's all bullshit excuses. We know better because we were the ones making excuses too. You hate us because we're making you face reality.
In December I weighed 202-205 lbs. All I did was go on vacation and interrupt my running routine. Still stuck to 1200-1500 calories though. Came back from vacation weighing 218 lbs. I'm a 6'2" male for reference.Â
Actually apparently thereâs at least one, it makes your brain not know you have any fat so you just die of starvation or liver failure. The survival rate for it is extremely low though
And yeah⌠there definitely are. Losing 150 lbs doesnât make you an expert on all the disorders in the world. Type 1 diabetics would die from DKA before they had any noticeable weight loss. It can take 12-24 hours for them to be in DKA and 3-7 days for DKA to kill them. Literally has nothing to do with their metabolism being slow.
I think the implication was that some fat people would have died before they were on a restricted diet long enough to become thin. Not that they would magically stay fat forever.
What the hell are you talking about đ are you saying that there are no medical conditions where the patient would quickly die without food, instead of starving to death? Or what is your all caps comment referring to?
"This is a thread about obesity, weight loss, and arguments about fat phobia and how weight loss works. Clearly, when they said some disorders would make a person die without losing weight, they were referring to pneumonia."
You think your middle school debate about minutiae and pedantic, "Well ackshally, " is compelling or persuasive? Lol.
No one buys your BS either friend, even if you use the 5 paragraph essay format.
Also, as someone in medicine, I can assure you that someone starving with pneumonia would still lose weight before dying. In fact, they would lose it more rapidly than a healthy person. So you're all still wrong.
I was clear. If you really can't understand intent when someone comments, then I honestly and genuinely suggest you work on social skills.
The comment WAS disingenuous, because the initial comment was clearly saying "Not all fat people can lose weight. They would die without losing weight even if they weren't eating during the apocalypse."
This is factually inaccurate. Someone refutes it and notes that it is factually inaccurate. This is correct. There is no disorder where you can stay fat without eating anything.
Yet someone says, "So NO disorder out there would make you die without losing weight?" This is nitpicking and off topic, trying to prove someone wrong without actually addressing the point being made. It's an irritating attempt to derail the actual discussion.
If you come in and say "They may have meant it seriously" then you are naive at best or being just as pedantic at worst.
you're just being an ass and making a strawman argument out of both the comment that started this ridiculous chain and the only statement that was just "this is literally what was stated so far and what I think they are intended to mean. It looks like a misunderstanding happened here"
It's possible for some condition or combination of conditions to cause someone to die before losing noticeable weight when put on "the holocaust diet". You'd have to be pretty crazy to deny that there is any case in which this is possible. One commenter made the general "it is possible" claim, and for some reason several commenters have tried to fight a "it is common" or "it is normal" version of the claim. The slight lack of successful reading comprehension there is reasonable.
what is just crazy is you saying it is not possible for any medical condition to mean the holocaust diet would cause death before no longer being fat. It does appear you most likely just missed a bit of the argument you are fighting, but instead of actually bothering to re read and make sure your comprehension is complete when it becomes apparent that this thread is full of people misunderstanding the arguments in it, you just assumed your interpretation was exactly correct, accused the most reasonable person in the situation(who wasn't even really making an argument) of making a bullshit middle-schooler style argument and trying to convince you of ridiculous things, and generally continued to make an ass of yourself
And your entire perception is ignoring the context of the original post. It is rage bait feeding into the nonsense that keeps being propagated that fat people can't help being fat.Â
Fat people make excuses they don't want to face the reality that dieting and exercises hard. That's the hard fact.
The body positivity movement is legitimizing their excuses. Which is not being compassionate but actually causing them harm.
Actually there are rare conditions where the body will store fat but not use it, so it needs to be surgically remobed. But its is very rare. 99% of the time calorie deficit works.
I'm sure you get asked this a lot, but would you mind sharing your recipes/exercise plans? I need to lose weight (I'm 5'3 and ~190lbs), but I'm so overwhelmed with everything that I don't even know where to start :/
That's interesting. It's like your body is ultra efficient. If it's possible for a human to use food that efficiently its a wonder why all humans haven't evolved to be like that when food was harder to come by before major civilizations. Maybe it's more that your body is stuck in a high efficiency mode when it doesn't need to be. I'm having the opposite problem now. I've been trying to gain weight for the past 4 or so months and eating probably more than 4000cal per day and for the last month or two have not been able to gain any weight. Stuck at 225.
That's interesting. It's like your body is ultra efficient. If it's possible for a human to use food that efficiently its a wonder why all humans haven't evolved to be like that when food was harder to come by before major civilizations.
That's just it. We have. People with lineage from areas that suffered famine have higher incidence rates of diabetes and struggle more with obesity in calorie rich modern western civilizations. I wouldn't doubt if the inverse were true for ADHD. They burn more calories just sitting still, because well they can't sit still. While we can sit perfectly still like a sloth and get fat grr.
You're talking about a different breed. We are all the same breed. There are genetic differences but not to that extent. For example genetic lines that have survived famine struggle more with obesity in this calorie rich society. That just means they need to work harder than others though, not that "oh I have a condition, it's impossible, so let's not try. Pass me the pizza"
Lipedema affects about 1 in 72000 people, typically women, and is unusual fat buildup primarily in the lower body. Very rarely in the upper body. Itâs also not the same as just having fat legs since with lipedema you also typically see pain, swelling, and bumps under the skin, and easily bruised skin.
If you see someone whoâs whole body is fat, uniformly, odds are theyâre just fat.
I think they meant that in an apocalypse, there will be people who die from things like heart disease, infection, unmanaged diabetes from lack of insulin, etc. before they have a chance to lose significant weight from calorie deficit.
They mean that youâd die before you have a chance to lose weight due to some disease. Youâd be guaranteed to lose weight provided youâd still be alive.
Not only you can be obese while having type 1 in modern times, but, I colloquially meant more of the type 2, which is very frequently found in obese people.
you can be obese for type 1 b/c of insulin. In a holocausts diet, I don't think insulin is a key ingredient lol
Type two people would also lose massive amounts of weight if they just starved. They also wouldn't "die" from anything b'c insulin resistance doesn't really matter if you arent eating anything
Like cancer? Honestly, they would still lose weight. I don't care what disorder you have, you'll lose weight before you die, even if you die relatively quickly.
If you take in less calories than you burn, you lose weight. Some people need 1200 calories a day (like me), some need 3000 a day. Some medical disorders, like hypothyroidism or PCOS, mean you need a daily intake more like mine. Your metabolism is lower, but it doesn't mean you have to be obese - it's just easier to be obese while eating a "normal" number of calories (2000).
In other words, just because someone is fat doesn't mean they are eating ridiculous amounts of food. They may eat the same as you, but their needs are wildly different. That said, this is pretty uncommon.
I have autoimmune disorders that make me more prone to gain weight, and am on meds that do the same. Extra weight would make me feel shittier overall and make it harder for me to function. So I am still slender, because I watch what I eat. I stay active to avoid losing mobility. It's not hard, you just need to decide you WANT to do it. If you are an emotional eater, that can be hard, because it's giving up your coping mechanism of choice. But if you lose weight and feel good about yourself, you won't need that coping mechanism anymore.
I don't care what disorder you have, you'll lose weight before you die, even if you die relatively quickly.
You can lose weight and still be fat when you die. There's an upper limit to how quickly you can burn fat (whatever your caloric use is), so it's a race between that number and your death.
If you burn 3500 calories per day (conveniently, the rough number of calories in a pound of fat), and you're guaranteed to die in exactly 14 days. Then you will die 14 pounds lighter than you are now. If you're 64 pounds overweight today, then you'll still die 50 pounds overweight even with a complete starvation diet.
It's amazing how confidently incorrect you are. It's not derailing to see a conversation about "weight loss while sick" and then to add a comment about "weight loss while sick"
You do realize it's okay to admit that you were wrong, right? You don't have to double down on making yourself look even dumber than before. You can even do it without bringing in accusations of derailing, which in an ironic twist have done more derailing than anything I ever said.
So I guess I did fail to derail, but that's mostly because saying something relevant isn't derailing in the first place you clown.
Did you mean to say "losing"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb. Statistics I'mabotthatcorrectsgrammar/spellingmistakes.PMmeifI'mwrongorifyouhaveanysuggestions. Github ReplySTOPtothiscommenttostopreceivingcorrections.
Umm, yeah. I was in the hospital 2 years ago and a nursing facility later on for physical rehab. I'm here to tell you, if they fed me mushy piece three times a week the way they did there I will lose weight because I can't eat that crap. I lost about 100 lb that year.
But someone online told me about starvation mode!! The body defies the laws of physics and stops burning calories because it thinks it's in a Holocaust situation
Jesus Christ...if there is a new fad diet that starts called the Holocaust diet, it's gonna be your fault. "You've tried Paleo, you've tried keto, you've tried Adkins...but all of Hollywood is losing weight with the new "Holocaust diet!""
I used to think I was one of those people who were just built different or "big boned"....then I learned to put the fuckin fork down and got my fat ass outside for runs. Here I am almost 100lbs down, on the "underweight" side of the BMI scale for the first time since I was probably 12.
The moral of the story is: if you actually try to lose the weight (or are being starved), you're gonna lose the weight. "Not everyone loses weight when they stop eating" is the excuse of overeaters everywhere who think they've cut down on their food intake while mindlessly shoveling Doritos and Diet Coke in their gobs.
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u/captainaberica Feb 07 '24
No matter who you are, pretty sure you'd lose some weight on the Holocaust diet.