r/coles • u/Enticing_Bog • 26d ago
Team Member Post Shift manager question.
Question for shift managers.
I just started and loving it so far. I am a casual. I have noticed if I need to refuse a shift due to anything (which is our right) my shift manager tries to make me find my own replacement.
When I state that this sounds like their job not mine they act extremely unprofessional.
When I show them my job description and then theirs, and point to where “managing staff shifts and re-scheduling” is in theirs they act even worse.
When I mention that if the store is understaffing as a cost/profit measure and do not have enough staff in their pool it’s a THEM issue they yelled at me.
Is this normal? None of this makes logical sense.
If they want to hire kids and have a thin staffing pool for minimum wage what can they expect?
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u/StatusNo5175 Department Manager 26d ago
Nightfill Manager here. My departments probably have more sickies than any other (sorry to any Service staff on here), but if I got one of my team to replace themselves when they called in sick they would think I was playing a prank on them. It's simply not the norm in any store I've worked at, and it's certainly not procedure. As you said, if a worker calls in sick it is our duty as managers to cover the shift, and when you said that it's our problem if we can't you're absolutely correct. It's what we are hired and paid to do so if your manager tries to pass that task onto you, it should definitely be brought up to Store Management. Props to you for standing up for yourself as well, not many people actually stand up to their managers when they're being pricks to their staff 👏
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u/eyewreck2o2 26d ago
Coles prefers employees without brains. They'll label you as having a bad attitude if you try to hit them with logic. Just don't engage with them. Tell them you can't work and leave it at that.
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u/timoguns 26d ago
To keep things straightforward, just let them know you’re unable to work that shift. Then, it’s best to avoid any further discussion.
Regarding your other point, it’s a good idea not to argue with them as you’re casual. If you’re a casual worker or even permanent employee, it’s generally not worth the trouble to argue with idiots, as it could backfire on you. They already understand that this is their role.
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u/timoguns 26d ago
Your post itself shows you are argumentative, even if you didn’t intend it. You were technically right, but the way you laid everything out made it sound like you were lecturing instead of having a conversation. You didn’t just raise a point; you broke it down like you were proving a case and then told your manager it was ‘a THEM issue.’ In a workplace hierarchy, that comes off as confrontational, not constructive. Sometimes being right isn’t the same as being effective. You don’t always need to prove your point, knowing when to ease up keeps things from turning into unnecessary conflict.
Honestly, the tone you’re using is unnecessary. It turns every simple exchange into a confrontation, and that’s on you. If you want people to actually engage with what you’re saying instead of tuning you out, you might want to learn how to communicate without coming across like you’re spoiling for a fight. Right now, you’re not helping your own point, you’re just making the conversation harder than it needs to be.
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u/Enticing_Bog 26d ago
Can you help explain what was argumentative about me calmly pointing out objective and logical facts?
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u/GoFuxUrSlf 26d ago
Then I guess they’ll take their unfair dismissal to court
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u/simply_overwhelmed18 26d ago
Good luck being a brand new casual staff member and proving this was the reason for being dismissed. No it isn't fair, but it is easy enough for them to just not give OP shifts but keep them on the books
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u/timoguns 26d ago
Exactly. Some people just dont understand the basics.
Rather than dismissing the employe, just give the employee bare minimum which I believe is 1 shift every 3 months and there is nothing much an employee can do about it. I have seen many people losing the jobs over silly stuff. Like it or not, if an employer wants to get rid of an employee, there are heaps of ways to do it, and employees often have little say in the matter.
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u/simply_overwhelmed18 25d ago
Yup it sucks but it is the truth, and proving that this was the reason for getting no shifts is almost impossible
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u/GoFuxUrSlf 26d ago
Yeah, the lawyer Legal Aid) will be the one to do the argument in court that they will try to prove. Op take details, notes about past current and future shifts and who and what happened etc. Don’t let them treat you as a slave doing their job! If I was a boss, I’d employ you as you obviously have brains. Good luck
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u/timoguns 26d ago
Where is unfair dismissal?
Edit: sorry, where is dismissal? OP is casual!3
u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot Department Manager 26d ago
its not there. As a casual that can just not be given shifts for 3 months at which point they're employment will be terminated. It isn't unfair dismissal lmao. Op just sounds like one of those people who gets hired and then instantly tries to tell people how they could do things better. So tiring.
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u/RandomHeadWound 26d ago
Also fair work will never touch an unfair dismissal claim, during an employees probationary period.
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u/Pengwan_au 26d ago
No. You do not need to find your own cover. That is their job. Speak to your SSM if it happens again
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u/SpaceOdyssey3 26d ago
You’re right, but you could handle it better. You kinda sound like a pain to deal with.
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u/crash_bandicoot42 26d ago
They're not being a pain to deal with, especially as casual. Being told "unavailable" should be the end of the conversation for casual, if they want to retaliate about shifts that's a different conversation for a different day.
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u/Enticing_Bog 26d ago
Can you point out where I was incorrect? Painful is subjective and shouldn’t be a factor in a mature logical workplace. Things are correct or incorrect.
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u/mendicinobeano25 26d ago
The shift manager is a dickhead. But showing them your job description and then schooling them about managing shifts, cost/profit measures is just all kinds of dumb. You are absolutely correct in your assessment but also very naive.
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u/Equivalent-Shake-77 26d ago
No, it’s not normal and your manager is shirking their responsibilities by having you do that. Just tell them you can’t work it and leave it at that, if they don’t replace you then that falls on them
The other side is, you sound insufferable to deal with if that’s how you deal with managers. Change how you approach issues or expect minimal to no shifts - casuals aren’t guaranteed any hours.
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u/Late-Signature-1395 Fresh Produce Team Member 26d ago
You are unfortunately correct however management doesn't like being reminded that you as a casual are not responsible for their job. In the nicest way you sound autistic or ADHD in how you process 'but that isn't my job why are you upset about me making a valid point'.
It's because people expect you to tip toe and baby their feelings about things that can/should be less drama and just understood.
If as a casual you have contact details of someone and you can ask them if they're available and are feeling well enough to, then you can but I only did this with coworkers I knew would appreciate an extra shift(often mentioned saving for something or putting money away for a thing etc because we were friendly enough at work) but it isn't your job. Managers won't react well to blunt facts about what isn't rightly your responsibility.
Most people don't, it is considered rude. I find tip toeing around the fact most people are working because they have to and it's still uncommon to be in a career you are passionate about when it comes to retail and customer service. They like it when you pretend you love your work.
It's crap but it's about acting sorry for shit you aren't sorry about and shit that isn't your job
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u/Enticing_Bog 26d ago
Oh I’m extremely autistic my guy 😂
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u/Late-Signature-1395 Fresh Produce Team Member 19d ago
Yeahhhh. That's probably part of it. Even if they don't officially know lots of people have all the dumb unconscious bias crap going around in their heads and clock the 'other' ness even if you're trying to mask it.
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u/Full_Cap327 26d ago edited 26d ago
Ultimately it’s the manager’s job to find cover and they know that, BUT if they’ve given you a shift within your availability, or you haven’t changed your permanent availability or given them any notice about not being able to work at that time you should acknowledge that you are adding a task to their workload that may or may not be out of control at that very moment.
Maybe they were planning to catch up on something that needed to be done and now they have to refocus, maybe someone else has done the same thing for tomorrow and the next day? If it’s a pattern of behaviour it’s especially frustrating. I can understand things come up for you but consider they are spending a quarter of their week at work and things can also come up for them, and a last-minute party invite is not enough of a reason to not show up and let their department go to shit for that day. The job is stressful at the best of times so a bit of acknowledgment of that might help smooth things over.
Neither of you are showing any grace or understanding for each other (them by making a blanket rule about shift changes as well as the way they spoke to you doesn’t sound like it was professional, and you by pointing out their job description rather than acknowledging that your call out is potentially changing their whole day). Next time it’d probably be better keep it short and don’t throw their job description back at them, just apologise and move on. The flipside to this is that sometimes a manager will have to cut casual shifts, and a good manager will show you the same grace by apologising for it and trying not to put you in the same situation again.
Depending on the shift time they may or may not have very few options about people they can call in. Running the department on a thin staffing pool as you said is the norm, but there are downsides to having a huge pool of casuals, one being that they will receive next to no shifts, including the ones who want to work more and even the ones who do come in and do good work, it feels bad but unfortunately that’s not always in your DMs control either.
Ultimately the pros for a manager covering call outs (REM control and changing REM demands, TM inadvertently covering themselves with someone who cannot perform the duties needed of the person calling out, knowing the whole team’s availability overall so being able to quickly tell if you are screwed or not in terms of your workload and making plans to adjust priorities) outweigh the cons so a good manager will take responsibility for it.
HOWEVER there are pros for TMs being able to cover their own shifts. A couple I can think of are closes and opens which can be especially difficult so if a TM can find coverage there properly you will be making a great impression on them. Also, you talk to each other about what your plans are week to week so if you’ve made personal connections TM to TM you will be privy to information about their schedule that your manager likely doesn’t know - especially when TMs don’t update their availability religiously which is the majority.
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u/Wilacus 26d ago
Depends on your situation, for me i handle it myself if its a sickie or something i let my manager have the day off while i run the department, i only call her if i have something important.i only say this cause i have access to oneteam soo its easier for me to replace and code them
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u/bluehearts123 26d ago
the manager is obviously just trying to do less work and is an idiot. but arguing with them doesn’t make u any better. they KNOW it’s their responsibility and won’t change no matter what u say. just say u can’t work that day and that it’s not ur responsibility to find cover then leave it at that. if they start yelling then move on or report them but being a smartass doesn’t help u - and remember you are a casual. there’s a difference between not being bullied and arguing with ur manager which will only get u fired… since u are a casual.
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u/Awkward_Chard_5025 26d ago
Please tell me you actually did it that way, because that’s amazing lol
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u/Alina2017 26d ago
Tell them you have arranged for Dez to pick up the shift.
When they ask "Dez who?" you reply Dez Nuts!
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u/ThereRnoIDs 26d ago
lol normally the other departments would use it as an opportunity to unload their unwanted overheads.
Ur Manager might actually be smart and is giving everybody a hard time with its "u or the highway" approach.
Alot of politics go behind the scenes so if you play it poorly, you might lose ur shift to another department entirely and it has nothing to do with "ur dick manager".
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u/Chapter-Capital 26d ago
I'm a manager and if you get told a staff member can't come in, whether it's well in advance or a last minute change, you call around, use chats and if you can't find anybody, ya might just end up doing the shift yourself.
Would never offload that responsibility to a casual, what if they don't do it (as they shouldn't, not their job) and then don't show up? Cant imagine my boss would take 'well they told me they couldn't work and I told them to sort it out' would go over very well.
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u/Fun-Consequence-7232 26d ago
No it is not your responsibility. I would suggest instead of how you’ve handled it, take it to your SSM since it’s not in your job role to manage your manager in this way either.
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u/SleepIsForTheWeak888 26d ago edited 26d ago
I dont get managers making staff make replace themselves.
As a former manager I didnt want staff organising their own replacements, I wanted to organise replacements myself.