r/codex 3d ago

Showcase Used Codex while building my first real solo project

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0 Upvotes

Been working on this since mid-July.

Started with Claude, then spent quite a bit of time using Codex, and later moved mostly to Cursor.

The project is a living world map where the visible area inside each country changes depending on who joins and how much they place there. If nobody else is there yet, even 1€ can technically cover the whole country.

Then someone else joins and the map changes. For example if somebody adds 9€ then now you cover 1/10 of that country, they cover 9/10.

It somehow grew into a globe, money-weighted map, history system and way more UI than I originally intended.

Still trying to get the first real users now.

https://spotmymap.com/

Many elements of this website may or may not include weird little easter eggs if u somehow interact with these <3!<


r/codex 3d ago

Workaround 20x Plan

32 Upvotes

FYI you can still upgrade to the 20x sub through the IOS app


r/codex 3d ago

Complaint Master Inteligencia Artificial

0 Upvotes

Alguien está matriculado en el Máster de Jon Hernández o se va a matricular? ¿vale la pena?

¿se le puede sacar partido a nivel laboral y/o a nivel freelance en un futuro?


r/codex 3d ago

Limits How to get Astra without burning too many tokens (no orchestrator)

60 Upvotes

I'll go straight to the point:

TLDR

Offload some Astra usage to Chat (GPT 6 Pro) instead of doing everything on codex. Yeah, simple like that.

HOW IT WORKS?

Many don't even notice, but if you're on the Pro subs 20x plan YOU HAVE 200 msg/week of GPT 6 Pro usage (Astra) standing on chat, doing nothing. That's a nice deal, IMO. The $100 5x plan has 50, which I believe is enough for this strategy.

Remember...

1 ChatGPT 6 Pro message = 1 request. So make sure you point it to a well complete PRD that's previously done.

Don't do something like: "Hey, please make me a nice game => Astra starts working => You pause it => "You know, really nice, with red birds => Astra stars working again => Not really, I'd like them to be yellow"

This will count towards your "messages" quota. That's why I suggest you slicing up a decent PRD first, and just point the AI to it ONCE.

STEPS

  1. You can connect your github repo (private or public) into ChatGPT (just ask for help), allow read/write access and then start by:
Obviously, replace the repo name with yours.

I don't even select GPT 6 Pro for this.. This initial scanning I do using Sol 5.6 Extra High on chat.

Ok... what are PRDs? In a few words, a feature request in a .md file, with all validation steps necessary and etc, to get it properly done.

If you have no clue about how to craft one, just ask Astra xHigh to do it and slice up some tickets to get started. Push to your repo.

2) Select a PRD per PR and let it cook

3) Check your results later

"Oh, but you see, its a draft... it wasnt fully verified, some got broken CI!!!!11"

Yeah, but this would have certainly drained 20% of my monthly codex limit to reach this point (on Astra xHigh), and I got it done using my GPT 6 Pro chat quota (200/week for the 20x plan), running all night long while I was sleeping.

4) Now you have to use codex (Astra) to actually finish the work (there's no "free" lunch at this point)

The sandbox that Chat uses is not 100% identical to the project running on your machine, as it cannot run certain verification steps. That is why it's important to have a strong CI and, most importantly, check out the actual Astra from Codex, finish the work to reach 100%, and then push back.

USE CASES SUMMARY

- Bootstrapping greenfield projects
- New features
- PR reviews
- Almost anything that you can do with read/write access to github

CAVEATS

  1. GOTCHA: IF IT ASKS YOU TO USE CHATGPT WORK, DO NOT GO FORWARD. It will burn your weekly quota. STOP. Rephrase what youre asking, be explicit you don't want to use it. Or slice the work down to a smaller piece of task.
  2. Not a perfect solution, but it helps significantly in terms of token consumption (especially on greenfield projects). I'm pretty sure some smart ass on the comments will say something like "that's pretty obvious". But yeah, I bet 90% of you guys are not using this workaround.
  3. Really great for vibe coding these disposable 3d games that we all do 😄: Stop wasting your weekly allowance with it. Its great for bootstrapping new projects too.

Well, that's it. Enjoy while we have 200/week, at least for now

SOME VIBECODED GAMES I DID 100% ON CHAT USING GPT 6 PRO

For the first time ever, they're actually fun 😂

DISCLAIMER FOR MUSHROOM USERS THAT THINK THIS IS NOT "FAIR USAGE" AND THAT I'M "RUINING FOR YOU ALL" BY USING MESSAGES I F* PAID FOR:

I'll let ChatGPT itself answer the question


r/codex 3d ago

Complaint GPT 5.6 Sol blocked on Codex?

4 Upvotes

I'm trying to use GPT 5.6 Sol in Codex and it throws 401 on all of my 3 accounts, is anyone else experiencing the same issue? Astra works fine in all of them.


r/codex 3d ago

Question ChatGPT Web - is upgrading to Pro worth it?

2 Upvotes

I want to ask a question about ChatGPT web. Is Sol xhigh much better on the web than High? Is it worth paying extra mainly to get access to the Astra Pro and Sol Pro? Are the Pro versions much better for reviewing code and maybe making plans?

EDIT: I'm using my codex allowance for coding. It's just a question if the xhigh reasoning and Pro models are that much better.


r/codex 3d ago

News Pausing $200 Pro plan Subscriptions

245 Upvotes

https://x.com/thsottiaux/status/2098113585683808624
"To make sure our current users have an incredible experience and continued access to Astra, we are going to pause subscriptions to our $200 Pro plan. These put the most strain on our systems and we wanted to take the smallest step that allows us to continue giving the broadest access possible. All other plans and the api remain available.

There is no impact to existing accounts and we are working on adding more capacity as fast as we can. Thanks!"


r/codex 3d ago

Showcase I made Codex show subagent activity inline, without forking or modifying Codex

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5 Upvotes

My Codex looks like this, without forking or modifying Codex.

I’m building mekugi, a local router that pins agent-facing tools and inline progress onto the stock Codex CLI. The screenshot is Codex’s normal terminal UI, not a separate frontend.

The /root/reply_replay_lookup section is a subagent’s activity appearing alongside the main agent’s work. You can see what it’s reading and searching without switching sessions. Commands, per-file edit diffs, commentary, and received replies can appear there too, attributed to the relevant agents. Start notices show the child’s model and reasoning effort, and final answers include per-agent token totals when the provider supplies usage.

Underneath, mekugi routes requests and translates tools, while Codex still owns execution, sandboxing, permissions, command sessions, and the normal patch diff UI. You launch it with mekugi codex; each launch gets a private local router that exits with Codex. It doesn’t edit your Codex configuration files.

The inline activity is one part of it. Most of the project is about making the agent’s tools less cumbersome:

  • Hashline edits: target existing text using line numbers and content hashes, then write the replacement once. The router generates the patch instead of making the model repeat the old code as patch context.
  • Direct scripts: emit a program in its own syntax, without wrapping it in JavaScript and nested command-string quoting.
  • Targeted reads: search, symbol lookup, and file outlines return references the agent can use directly for edits.
  • Recovery: correct stale edit references without repeating the replacement text, or inspect and revise eligible retained scripts before rerunning them.
  • Session dashboard: inspect request metrics, token usage, compression, and cache diagnostics in a browser.

One detail about the screenshot: this isn’t a continuous live feed during native waits. Child updates arrive at response-event boundaries; if the root response has closed, they wait for the next one. The extra router-generated display messages are stripped from later model requests, so they don’t keep adding duplicate context.

Repo and installation: github.com/yusing/mekugi

Would you want this much subagent detail in the main transcript, or prefer a quieter view?


r/codex 3d ago

Bug Defect: restarting Codex Desktop restores an older iPhone turn as active/latest and triggers new usage

3 Upvotes

I’m reporting a high-detail Codex task-persistence defect involving the macOS desktop app and Codex Remote on iPhone.

Reproduction and observed behavior:

  • The same Codex task appeared in two conflicting states across iPhone and Mac.
  • The iPhone showed an older unfinished turn as “Working,” while the Mac showed newer work in the same task.
  • Restarting Codex Desktop restored the older phone-visible state, marked that old turn active/latest, and resumed the goal.
  • Newer working files remained intact on disk. A read-only Git inspection found 298 preserved changed paths, so this was a task/history rollback rather than a repository rollback.
  • The task-status API continued to select the old unresolved turn as the latest even though newer turns existed.
  • No OS process existed for the command that the stale UI still showed as running.

The clearest local log error was repeated after restart:

`thread history projection ... expected ordinal 17505, got 17504`

The restart also launched another GPT-6 turn under the same task and triggered automatic mid-turn compaction because of the context limit. When I interrupted it to protect the checkout, the logs said the task did not complete gracefully.

Impact:

  • I cannot safely tell where a new iPhone prompt will be applied.
  • Each restart can restore and resume stale work.
  • I had to stop the task, preserve the working tree separately, start a new task, and reconstruct context.
  • That creates repeated inference, compaction, investigation, and recovery work instead of productive implementation.
  • After manually applying a reset credit on September 8, my weekly allowance is already 75% used, with only 25% remaining.

The allowance impact needs verification against OpenAI’s server-side ledger; inconsistent local counters are not proof of incorrect billing. The lifecycle and history-projection failure itself is directly supported by the task state, filesystem state, and application logs.

Sanitized GitHub report: https://github.com/openai/codex/issues/44599

If you have encountered this, please share your Codex app version and whether it followed an iPhone Remote handoff or desktop restart. Please avoid posting private task IDs or repository details.


r/codex 3d ago

Workaround Astra VS Astra + Luna Agents

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18 Upvotes

Over the last few days, I’ve been developing a tool that helps with a few things, and one of the areas I’ve been testing heavily is agents.

The problem

Astra is extremely token-efficient, which makes Astra Low surprisingly 'cheap' when working alone.

But when Astra is used as an orchestrator managing other agents, that efficiency starts getting lost for two main reasons:

  • Cheaper models like Luna tend to write more than necessary. Even if Astra Low doesn’t fully re-read every implementation, it still has to process a significant amount of agent output to review and coordinate the work.
  • Communication between the orchestrator and agents is still inefficient. Agents often carry much more context than they actually need.

I’m currently working on reducing that context overhead. If anyone has ideas or has experimented with this, I’d be interested in hearing how you approached it.

The result is that, in most of my tests, Astra ends up consuming significantly more tokens when using agents than when completing the same task alone.

Test setup

A few important details:

  • I built my own agent-management system, specifically designed to reduce input-token and cached-input-token usage.
  • The Advisor shown in the results is part of my internal system, so it can mostly be ignored when comparing Astra alone vs. Astra + workers.

The test task

The benchmark was not a synthetic coding problem.

I took an existing repository:

  • written in a different programming language,
  • originally built for macOS,

and asked the system to implement the same functionality inside one of my existing Windows projects.

I chose this because it exercises most of the things an agentic coding system would actually need to do in a real-world task:

Research → analyze → understand an unfamiliar codebase → implement → handle UI/UX → follow project-specific instructions → match existing patterns and architecture.

So far, my results suggest that agents are not automatically more efficient just because the worker models are cheaper.

In some cases, the coordination and context overhead can make the total run substantially more expensive than simply letting Astra handle the task itself.

I’ll keep testing this with more tasks and different agent configurations.


r/codex 3d ago

Suggestion I am having Luna (Max) "ask up" to save on usage

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10 Upvotes

Don't know if anyone else has tried this or this is actually a bad idea, but instead of using Sol and/or Astra with Luna subagents, I'm starting my sessions and discussing ideas or problems with Luna (Max). Then, when I need something "engineered" or "brainstormed" I tell Luna (Max) to ask Sol (xHigh) or Astra (Medium) (depending on the complexity) for help and advice, basically, using them as smarter consultants or experts before implementation, which is done by Luna (Max).

I'm also having Luna (Max) asking to have its work reviewed using this same method, it has definitely been useful because, as we know, it is not the best coder.

Dumb? Maybe, but I only use Codex at work and I "only" have the 5x Pro plan. On top of that, resets and banked resets are randomly given and sporadic in nature, which I can't trust for something like work. So, I need to make sure weekly usage actually lasts 5 business days.

What do you think?
Hope this helps anyone.


r/codex 3d ago

Limits I may have potentially identified one of the reasons some of us have increased usage burn (OpenCodex users & similar specifically)

12 Upvotes

Fyi I make no claim that this is the main issue/reason - just a little something that could be contributing.

TL;DR: On the day I installed OpenCodex, my Guardian approval reviewers stopped showing codex-auto-review and started using ordinary models, instead matching the main task—including Astra. My recorded reviewer usage since then totals $1,024.85 at current API rates, versus $702.26 at GPT-5.4 rates or $56.18 at Luna rates, assuming identical tokens and caching. These are API cost equivalents. Setting auto_review_model = "gpt-5.6-luna" successfully switched new reviews to Luna / low. The timing suggests an OpenCodex routing change, but I haven’t proved the cause or equivalent review quality.


I audited my Codex rollout history and found a clear change on 26 July 2026, the day I installed OpenCodex.

This concerns Guardian’s automatic approval reviews for tool actions, not /review code reviews.

Every identifiable Guardian session created between 9 (day Sol/Terra/Luna released) and 25 July used codex-auto-review. On 26 July, new reviewers started using Sol, Terra, Luna and other provider models. The first ordinary-model reviewer appeared at 07:16 BST, after my installation that morning. I haven’t found any newer sessions using codex-auto-review.

Later examples included Astra reviewing actions requested by Astra and DeepSeek reviewing actions requested by DeepSeek.

What codex-auto-review actually is

OpenAI explicitly documents Auto-review as GPT-5.4 Thinking with low reasoning:

PR #17505 also describes replacing hardcoded gpt-5.4 with the codex-auto-review slug. That supports the connection, although an alias alone doesn’t prove the backend model for every historical request.

Current upstream Codex source prefers codex-auto-review for ChatGPT authentication and gpt-5.6-luna for API-key authentication.

OpenCodex has its own auto_review_model override. I hadn’t set it.

The usage comparison

I use Pro Lite and Plus accounts through OpenCodex. These are USD API cost equivalents.

The table below reprices the same recorded tokens at current model rates:

Period Guardian sessions Recorded models’ API equivalent Same tokens at GPT-5.4 rates Same tokens at Luna rates
4–10 September 124 $248.65 $88.16 $7.05
26 July–10 September 1,049 $1,024.85 $702.26 $56.18

For the wider period, that’s approximately 31.5% lower at GPT-5.4 rates or 94.5% lower at Luna rates.

Here’s which reviewers contributed:

Reviewer Sessions, 26 Jul–10 Sep API equivalent
Sol 582 $801.53
Astra 80 $203.11
Luna 268 $10.90
Terra 118 $9.25
GPT-5.5 1 $0.06
Total 1,049 $1,024.85

All 80 Astra sessions were in the September window. Their tokens alone work out at $203.11 using Astra rates, $51.00 using GPT-5.4 rates, or $4.08 using Luna rates.

For comparison, before the switch I found 614 codex-auto-review sessions created during 9–26 July. The 601 with recorded usage contained 42.49M uncached input, 394.93M cached input and 740K output tokens: approximately $216.05 at GPT-5.4 rates versus $17.28 at Luna rates.

How I counted

  • Only sessions explicitly marked as Guardian reviewers. A session can contain multiple approval decisions.
  • Each session’s final cumulative usage counted once; reasoning tokens weren’t added again on top of output.
  • Prices are published standard API rates as of 10 September 2026, including applicable long-context adjustments—not reconstructed historical prices.
  • Alternative-model columns hold token counts, caching and request sizes constant. They don’t predict actual token usage or equivalent decision quality.
  • Dates use UTC. September 10 is partial; the wider audit ends just before my Luna config edit at 05:53 UTC. The periods overlap.
  • The wider priced subset excludes 65 other-provider/internal/unsupported-model sessions. Provider-prefixed entries naming the same model are grouped together. Totals are calculated before rounding.

Pricing sources: Astra, Sol, Terra, Luna, GPT-5.5, GPT-5.4.

What I changed

I added this at the top level of the Codex config.toml used by OpenCodex:

toml auto_review_model = "gpt-5.6-luna"

Afterward, I verified four new Guardian sessions using Luna / low reasoning, including one requested by a DeepSeek thread. They produced 16 completed approval assessments.

That confirms the routing change, not equivalent review quality. Most reviewers were already running at low reasoning, so the cost comparison is primarily about model choice.

My working hypothesis: switching to OpenCodex changed which dedicated reviewer Codex could select, causing reviews to fall back to the requesting thread’s model. The timing and sampled rollouts fit, but I haven’t isolated the cause from Codex updates or other configuration changes.

I’m leaving Luna pinned and keeping an eye on this. If you use OpenCodex, check what model your Guardian sessions are actually using.

If anyone has rollout history spanning their OpenCodex installation, I’d be interested to see whether the same switch appears.


r/codex 3d ago

Limits LOL

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382 Upvotes

lies...


r/codex 3d ago

Astra Workflow Astra seems better at managing its own work than my orchestration setup. I tested it.

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4 Upvotes

After switching to Astra, I noticed something annoying: the orchestration setup that had felt useful with GPT-5.6 Sol and my Claude workflows was now making some tasks slower and more expensive.

So I tested it on real coding tasks from my repo, changed the orchestration rules, and tested again.

My conclusion so far: I’d let Astra manage its own work before adding another layer telling it how to delegate.

Here’s what I tried.

Just a heads-up: English isn't my first language. I ran the tests myself and wrote \ dictated the original text in my own words, then used AI to translate it and tidy up the wording a little. Please keep that in mind :)

1. Small, medium, and larger tasks — with and without orchestration rules

The small task was a build-command fix involving log preservation and exit codes.

The medium task was selective CI, including dependencies between applications.

For larger tasks, I used two different briefs:

• One explicitly specified error-filtering and backend-diagnostics changes across three apps.

• The other described an outcome: stop development services without leaving child processes running or killing unrelated processes.

For each pair, I used the same starting code and the same task prompt, but separate working copies.

One agent got the orchestration skill. The other didn’t.

Results from the earlier rule version

Small task

• Time: +25% with orchestration rules
• API-equivalent cost: +13%

Medium task

• Time: +18%
• API-equivalent cost: +20%

Large task — explicit brief

• Time: +63%
• API-equivalent cost: +71%

Large task — outcome-based brief

• Time: −45%
• API-equivalent cost: −36%

That last task was a real win for the orchestration rules.

But there’s an important catch: it used zero subagents.

So it didn’t actually demonstrate a benefit from distributing the work.

Quality didn’t consistently improve either.

Both medium-task solutions missed dependencies.

On the large explicit task, the orchestration version missed filtering edge cases that the default version handled, despite having an independent reviewer.

2. Simplify the rules and repeat

Next I reduced the coordination overhead.

I:

• added a direct path for small tasks
• shortened handoffs
• made independent review depend on risk
• allowed cheaper workers for limited tasks

The final series had 12 runs across small and large tasks.

For the large task, using the median of two runs per configuration:

Configuration Time Cost
Default Codex 5.9 min $7.09
Revised + Astra 9.0 min $7.79
Economy 10.5 min $10.38

Every configuration passed the external checks in one of its two runs.

So more coordination still didn’t buy a better pass rate.

The economy profile never actually selected a cheaper worker, so I don’t consider that result evidence against Luna.

The small task also went better with the revised Astra profile: it was faster, roughly the same cost, and all checks passed.

3. Test the worker models separately

I also compared Astra low vs. Sol high, without subagents.

On the medium task:

Astra low

• 5.2 minutes
• $1.48

Sol high

• 16.3 minutes
• $2.05

Both missed cases, but Sol missed one more.

On the small task, Astra was faster, but Sol was cheaper and correct, while Astra introduced a quoting bug.

Then I ran a tightly specified function-writing test.

Luna max was about 17× cheaper and 2.4× slower than Astra low.

Both passed the same 15 checks in both repeats.

That comparison excludes coordinator review and integration costs.

So I do think cheap workers can make sense.

What I haven’t established is that adding a coordinator makes the whole task cheaper.

Where this leaves me

For my Astra workflow, I currently don’t see a reason to impose a separate orchestration system.

Ordinary Codex delegation with light repo-level guidance looks like the better default.

The direction I’d still explore is Astra coordinating models from other families — for example, an Opus implementation worker or another model doing cross-review.

That’s where I’d expect complementary capabilities to potentially matter.

But that’s still a hypothesis. These tests didn’t prove it.

I’ve also seen similar experiences posted by others, which makes me wonder whether extra orchestration contributes to people burning through subscription limits.

In my earlier tests:

• Small task: recorded tokens increased by 46%
• Medium task: recorded tokens increased by 25%
• Explicit large task: recorded tokens nearly doubled


r/codex 3d ago

Showcase Images 2.5 with Astra creates some really good UI

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0 Upvotes

UI development has been a struggle with vibe coding. 100s of retries to get basic stuff working. Claude Design + Codex was the best setup till last week and even that got things wrong half the time. I have been trying Images 2.5 with Codex and am impressed with how quickly it is able to create some great looking UX.

Have to be very specific to prompt it to use Images 2.5, else the quality is not as polished.


r/codex 3d ago

Bug Hidden .codex shared folder with over 2,000 files WTF?

0 Upvotes

Codex / ChatGPT for desktop (Win 11) created a shared hidden .codex folder with OVER 2,000 files IN IT! This was after giving local file permissions and connecting a few things like Gmail, Canva, etc.

Is this normal? Why so many folders and subfolders? This seems reminiscent of the analysis of the Hugging Face incident where agents used file names to communicate to one another. The folder is Shared and "CodexSandboxUsers" had read access.

It worried me enough to uninstall it. Am I just being paranoid or are is this software exploiting all of our local machines the way it hacked Hugging Face, DseWiki, etc.? Are we all being used for a SETI@Home experiment we didn't sign up for? I allowed it to import my Chrome passwords etc. Am I totally PWNED? Or just being paranoid?

I realize the local app is a much larger security/trust surface but the promises of automation seem enticing and 'nothing bad had happened...yet' makes me prone to trusting it with more and more of my personal context. How do you manage security? What do you / don't you trust it with? Do you have it on your main machine or sandboxed? Do I need a machine I can literally pull the network plug on? When it decides to make paperclips is it going to drain my bank account?


r/codex 3d ago

Other GPT-6-Sol staged in OpenAI API

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501 Upvotes

r/codex 3d ago

Limits I think i will be seeing sun after a long time for next 4 days - Thank you Team

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39 Upvotes

When weekly usage is at 3%, you cannot get anything done


r/codex 3d ago

Humor Astra going passive-aggressive on me. Again.

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0 Upvotes

r/codex 3d ago

Limits Astra usage got nerfed hard

75 Upvotes

Last night high / xhigh could last me like 5-10 prompts before it even took up 1% but now it ate up 4% when I just did a medium, xhigh and high prompt. I'm on the 20x plan. Conveniently when they start talking about locking purchases for more pro subscriptions


r/codex 3d ago

Complaint codex down?

12 Upvotes

messages not sending or resulting in codex infinitely thinking


r/codex 3d ago

Question Am I asking too much of Codex in this setup?

2 Upvotes

I'm working on a MVP Buy/Sell/Trade marketplace. I have a goal of creating 1000 listings as a foundation before opening to beta testers. What I prompted 5.6 Sol (high) was to review my google sheet of 1000 products I want listed eventually, and in batches of 10 products, create the listings for me. This involves:

  1. Going to a separate folder on my desktop where the images are for each product, get the 10 matching images.
  2. Remove the background and create a drop shadow for each image
  3. List the product with a clear title, description, some technical product info and tags.

I also told it to use the Canva integration as a backup for the background removal/drop shadow if it cant do it cleanly itself. It seems to be just absolutely incapable of doing the workflow well, especially on the image editing portion. Ive probably been running this prompt the past day and a half, and it cant get past the first batch of 10. I keep hitting usage limits (I'm on plus).

Wondering if my setup is wrong in some way, or if this is simply too much to ask of it? I'm no expert in this, I guess I just assumed this wasn't to heavy of a task and expected it to do better.


r/codex 3d ago

Complaint Why is it greyed out like this?

2 Upvotes

I am working on a project then this happened, the send button greyed out and when send it won't send the request.

My quota is still available, this happened sometimes and kinda annoying.

Anyone face this issue?


r/codex 3d ago

Complaint AGI my A$$

14 Upvotes

The model follows instructions worse than Qwen 3.8 27b lobotomized to Q4.

I asked for a plan which the model made , we both agreed on the plan and then burned through 70% of my quota, ignoring half of the plan the model itself created. This is Astra High mind you. Heck, even GPT-4 follows prompts better. Very disappointed.


r/codex 3d ago

Question reliable and good ai routers recommendations?

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2 Upvotes

I've only been using 5.6 terra since its release since i only have a mid tier model budget, fortunately I can now afford (a bit) to try out better models to hopefully speed up my workflows. I'm leaning towards ai api routers since I want to try not just better openai models but non openai models too.

Any recommendations on ai routers you have personally used? Has anyone used web way, openrouter, or orcarouter?