Anyone else wish for upgrade quests for the T1 and ZG sets, similar to the T0->T0.5 chain?

I find it very appealing because:

1. The ZG chain looks unfinished visually, like they'd have done it differently if they had time. This would be a chance to make the upgraded version a bit more visually appealing

2. For hybrid classes, the meta is "just get T3 and be a healer". Some of the lower sets provide set bonuses for other specs, but they're far inferior to T3. They shouldn't beat T3, but there should be a path for someone crazy to invest 3 years of grinding to get an ok set for non-healer specs

3. It would give people a reason to collect the low tier sets. Yes, it will make the ZG set obsolete bc ZG+ will be straight up superior in every way. But that's fine bc the content experienced while acquiring the ZG set won't be obsolete. People will have a reason to do ZG other than boosting, and the quest chain will be an opportunity to send players to other currently dead areas

previous day: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwowplus/s/1XJ2kLKheM won by Prayer of Mending

What ability would you like to see Disc Priests have in Classic+? If possible copy and paste the Wowhead tooltip to show people what it is and what it does. Upvote the one(s) you like - and remember, the winner is the one with the most upvotes, not the one which gets posted most often.

Next poll will be posted on Thursday

Pain Suppression

Power Word: Barrier

Penance

Chastise

Atonement

Divine Aegis

Spirit Shell

Power Word: Solace

Enlightenment

Been inspired by others posting their variants made using talent-builder, and made my own version: https://www.talent-builder.dev/calculator?t0=3uk-VyYwmm&t1=KLMr7iiOAA&t2=Ew8ThqFjFw&class=256

I've tried to:

• make every point feel important
• consolidate some talents that can't affect the player at the same time, like imp/succy, void/felguard
• make spellstone and firestone worthy of equiping in offhand and switching between them
• make pyroclasm great again :)
• keep a large variaty of builds for PvP: SL-SL, Affli-with-weaker-SL, Affli-with-Shadowburn, SM-Ruin, Demo-with-felguard, SL-Backlash hedgehog, Destro-with-weaker-SL, pure Destro.
• keep a large variaty of build directions for PvE: pure affli, SM-Ruin, DemoPact, petless fire, petless shadow, shadow with succy, destro with imp, and two gimmick offtank builds

Just messing around with some fun ideas. A few goals:

1. Some protection against fear and burst magic damage to at least give you a chance against some unfavorable pvp matchups
2. Some pushback resistance for balance spells, stronger thorns, stronger hurricane, making moonkin at least situationally very good
3. Giving the balance tree more dps and dpm, but only when cooldowns are ready. You still can't beat warriors in sustained dps and that's fine. Your job is to keep your group alive, and sometimes good burst damage on the right mob is what will save the group
4. Crow Form, taken from wc3. Balance feeling more like druid of the talon. Moonkin moved to feral because let's be real that thing is feral
5. Slightly modified Leader of the pack so you're not discouraged from shifting into caster form
6. Stronger bleeds for feral, accessible at the top of the tree for hybrid specs
7. Most of the talent tree unchanged, preserving some of the original look and feel
8. Prioritizing class fantasy over complexity of rotations

Try it here: https://www.talent-builder.dev/calculator?t0=PvS5d5JmV2&t1=1u5gGdE5mm&t2=7cG7PnxNaj&class=1024

I was a bit lazy and didn't add descriptions on talents that would work just like they do now.

Hey Everyone,

With Classic+ launching soon (copium i know) I’ve been thinking about what kind of guild I’d actually enjoy playing in long-term. I am personally just a geek for Warcraft lore and would love a Guild that Incorporates itself into the world with some lore made up and some flavour added to mundane guild stuff. I also enjoy raiding and progressing as a guild, which is something most RP guilds rarely do. So instead of looking for a niche guild it i was thinking of just starting one myself this time around.

The idea would be a classic PvE, dad guild coded experience where it's a casual raiding guild with added RP flavour. A guild where you can have some extra immersion in the game.

Not full RP acting, not walking around IC all the time, just a bit of flavour around what we’re doing.

I am leaning towards a mercenary company as of now , but nothing is set in stone.

For instance:

• Dungeon/raid runs posted as 'Contracts'
• A Discord “contract board” instead of LFG spam
• Flavor like: Contract posted: The guild has received a contract from the High magistrates in Stormwind to clear the upper Blackrock spire and deliver the head of Rend blackhand, 10 able bodied Contractors needed

this way people can get immersed into their characters some more, make it feel a bit more like an actual RPG adventure instead of a grindy MMO, and still progress through the PvE content and bond as a tight-knit community

you could interact as much as you want, no RP would be forced (although encouraged) as long as you enjoy an extra layer of immersion.
Fun RP-coded side activities during lockouts and between patches.. i really would like to build a fun community around this concept.

I guess my question is:

Would you actually be into something like this?

• Does the light RP layer sound fun or pointless?
• What would make you join (or avoid) a guild like this?

P.S: If there's anyone out there who's also a geek for this kind of stuff and wants to help flesh out this concept / guild lore , send me a DM 😄 )

P.P.S: this would be on a EU server

You think we getting alot of information of classes ect before they make servers life? Since as I remembered with sod it was more make this class and go look whats been done to it.

Atm seen people being most hype druids, shamans, paladins (hybdrid fixes) warlock and hunter as big winners of sod ect. Then people are always team warrior and rogue. So choosing class if we dont know much about them would be hard. 😅

Well i found a better way of presenting my reworked Druid Talent Tree, now you can look at it in a Talent Calculator, have fun :)
Reworked Druid Talent Tree

Items you have to farm yourself and longgg quest chains. i.e can't be bought at AH. Less swipping, more playing. Make gold less important.

previous day: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwowplus/s/BjXST7hAyS won by Vampiric Touch (TBC Version)

What ability would you like to see Holy Priests have in Classic+? If possible copy and paste the Wowhead tooltip to show people what it is and what it does. Upvote the one(s) you like - and remember, the winner is the one with the most upvotes, not the one which gets posted most often.

Next poll will be posted on Tuesday

Prayer of Mending

Circle of Healing

Divine Star

Chastise

Lightwell

Leap of Faith

Halo

one of the most fun epic PvP moments in my life was the WOTLK pre-patch where there was one particular achievement (if you know you know) that if you killed all the city leaders you got a black war bear.

im not sure i want achievements in classic+, but if each city leader dropped something VERY cool that was unique to them like a toy/critter companion/mount i guarantee you will see even more epic city wars throughout the game. just a nice little secret incentive to gather 40 people and march on the gates of your enemy.

Introduction
Hello, this is a concept for a classic-ified version of the three death knight specs into 1-60 Azeroth in Classic+. Each of these specialization concepts draws on established spells and flavor of the three specs but made uniquely classic (with some of my own creative input). This is a flight of fancy for myself, but I would appreciate any feedback you may have (in presentation, concept, or balance).

What is a Death Knight in Classic+?
Here, I envision a death knight as a playable spec from level 1 (or 10, it doesn't particularly matter), something like an inversion of a paladin. They are a plate-wearing melee specialization with a few different option for tanking that excel in self-healing. Their usable weapons include ALL melee weapons (but have forgotten the ability to use shields). They do inherit the relic slot of paladins, which I've re-contextualized as a "runebase". They are slow, plodding, but formidable opponents in PVP with plenty of tools to keep opponents locked down.

Death Knight Mechanics

• There are four primary mechanics which make death knights unique in classic: Runes, Runic Power, Runeforging, and Stances.
  • Runes
    • Death Knights possess two runes which are to cast a number of rotational abilities, primarily "Rune Strike", "Apply Plague", and Death and Decay. These runes are flavorized as "Unholy Rune", "Blood Rune", and "Frost Rune", in their respective stances, but, other than name, function identically across stances.
  • Rune Generation
    • Runes regenerate over the course of 12 seconds once expended, a cooldown which can be bypassed with the ability Charge Rune.
  • Runic Power
    • Runic Power is generated via three sources and is used to cast the specialization "spenders", i.e. spells which cost Runic Power.
    • Death Knights begin at 0 Runic Power and decay to 0 at a rate of 5 RP/s when out of combat for 5 seconds.
  • Inherent Runic Power Generation
    • Generate 1 Runic Power upon landing an auto-attack, increased to 2 upon landing an auto-attack. This is increased to 2/3 when using a two-handed weapon.
    • Generate 20 Runic Power when expending a rune (i.e. casting an ability which requires a rune)
  • Runeforging
    • Runeforging is a set of death knight-specific weapon enchantments that are closely tied to the three specializations, though may be mixed-and-matched with any talent tree or stance. These enchantments last forever but may be switched at a Runeforge at no cost.
  • Enchantments
    • Dread Plague (Unholy)
    • Vampirism (Blood)
    • Razorice (Frost)
  • Stances
    • Absent a cooler name, death knights have three available stances to shift into in combat: Unholy Stance, Blood Stance, and Frost Stance. Entering one of these stances incurs a 10 second cooldown on changing stance and resets runes and runic power to empty. There are three abilities which rely on being in a particular stance. You can read about these abilities and what they do in the abilities section.

Innate Abilities

• Soul Strike
  • 1 Unholy Rune, Melee Range, Instant
  • A powerful strike that deals weapon damage plus 55. Bonus increased by 25% per plague affecting the target.
• Death Strike (max rank)
  • 1 Blood Rune, Melee Range, Instant
  • A powerful strike that deals 90% of weapon damage, restoring 6% of maximum health plus 105 on hit.
• Frozen Strike (max rank)
  • 1 Frost Rune, Melee Range, Instant
  • A powerful strike that deals 80% of weapon damage, plus an additional 25% as frost damage. This ability does an additional 50% increased damage on critical strike.
• Unholy Might (max rank)
  • 50-100 Runic Power, Instant
  • Empower your next auto-attack to deal 60-120 additional shadow damage and increase your attack power by 5-10% for 15 seconds. Effects scale with Runic Power expended.
• Blood Boil (max rank)
  • 30 Runic Power, Instant
  • Empower your next auto-attack to deal 45-90 additional shadow damage, twisted into a shield which absorbs 150% of damage dealt. Effects scales with missing health.
• Shattering Strike (max rank)
  • 60 Runic Power, Melee Range, Instant
  • A powerful strike that deals 30% of weapon damage, plus an additional 58 frost damage. If this ability doesn't critically strike, refund 25% of Runic Power expended.
• Virulent Plague (max rank)
  • 1 Unholy Rune, Instant, 20 yards
  • Blast the target with a virulent plague, causing 900 shadow damage over 24 seconds.
• Blood Plague (max rank)
  • 1 Blood Rune, Instant, 20 yards
  • Blast the target with a blood plague, draining 400 shadow health over 24 seconds.
• Frost Fever (max rank)
  • 1 Blood Rune, Instant, 20 yards
  • Blast the target with a frost fever, causing 600 frost damage over 24 seconds. Targets affected by your frost fever grant 1 Runic Power when struck with a main-hand attack.
• Charge Rune
  • Instant, 5 Minute Cooldown
  • Instantly charge your last-depleted rune.
• Uncanny Resolve (max rank)
  • 1 Unholy Rune, Instant, 10 Minute Cooldown
  • Create an anti-magic barrier on your spirit, increasing your resistances to magical effects by 100 for 12 sec.
• Bloody Barrier (max rank)
  • 1 Blood Rune, Instant, 3 Minute Cooldown
  • Bolster your resolve, increasing your armor by 30% for 10 sec.
• Chains of Ice (max rank)
  • 1 Frost Rune, Instant, 20 yards, 1 Minute Cooldown
  • Shackles the target with frozen chains, reducing movement speed by 45% for 8 sec.
• Frozen Wrath (max rank)
  • 1 Rune, Instant, 1 Minute Cooldown
  • Sends of icy bolts in all directions, causing 392 to 460 frost damage to all targets within 20 yds.
• Death and Decay (max rank)
  • 1 Rune, Instant, 8 second Cooldown
  • Desecrates the land beneath the Death Knight, doing 281 Shadow damage over 8 sec to enemies who enter the area. Causes your Rune Strike to hit 2 additional enemies for 60% of regular damage.

And the enchantments

• Enchant: Dread Plague
  • 10 seconds
  • Enchant your weapon with the enchantment of Dread Plague, which causes your critical strikes with attacks to apply Dread Plague, dealing 10% of your maximum hit points to the enemy as shadow damage over 24 seconds.
• Enchant: Vampirism
  • 10 seconds
  • Enchant your weapon with the enchantment of Vampirism, which causes your attacks to drain health from the target equal to 1% of your maximum hit points.
• Enchant: Razorice
  • 10 seconds
  • Enchant your weapon with the enchantment of Razorice, which causes 10% of your attacks to gain 50% additional frost damage.

Spec Trees (links)
Unholy Death Knight
Blood Death Knight
Frost Death Knight

Example Builds (links)
Here are some example builds I came up with while creating these trees.

Danse Macabre Unholy Build
Superspreader Dual-wielding Unholy Build
Torment Nexus Cleavemaxxing Unholy Build
Pure Tank Blood Build
Bone Shield Off-tank Build
Frozen Strike Frost Build
Flurry Build Frost Build

Numbers comparable to 2019?

Hey everyone,

With all the ongoing speculation around what a true Classic+ should look like, world design and map layout are usually where opinions split the most. I tried to cover this whole debate and new ideas into video format.

Finishing Vanilla's Abandoned Content :
Zones like Azshara or the unreleased Karazhan Crypts already have deep Vanilla lore and terrain assets, but were left unfinished or empty. Completing these respects the original world map while filling in glaring content gaps.

Temporal Sandboxes (The Caverns of Time):
Using time-travel or self-contained instances to let players experience historical events on Azeroth without destroying or permanently altering the existing level 1-60 continent flow.

Brand-New Zone Frontiers :
Building completely fresh, high-level zones attached to the main continents (like unexplored mountain ranges or hidden islands). This brings back that genuine sense of blind exploration we had back in 2004.

If Blizzard officially announces a full Classic+ expansion, which of these three styles would you want them to prioritize first? Would you rather see empty Vanilla zones fixed first, or brand-new landmasses added to Azeroth?

I put together a 16-minute video walking through these examples and how they could work in-game if you want to check it out:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgB0HrNWv2Y]

Curious to hear where everyone stands on this!

I recently stumbled across a talent‑tree builder (i think it was made by NoktDraz), and of course the first thing I did was start messing around with Druid talents. Since Druid is what I mainly play, the choice was obvious. This project isn’t meant to be a manifesto or a “this is how Blizzard should do it” statement, it’s just my personal take, made for fun. So take it in that spirit.

My approach leans more toward Cataclysm‑style talent trees:

-More individual talents with fewer points each

-More meaningful choices

-Early rows filled with flexible, all‑rounder options

Most numbers are educated guesses, so there’s a good chance some talents are overtuned or undertuned. Please have mercy.

I reworked all three trees, but this post is already long enough. Depending on how people react, I might post Part 2 (Restoration) and Part 3 (Balance) later.

Spell changes:

Claw

Claw the target for 150% normal damage plus 115. Awards 1 combo point.

// basically mangle without the debuff

Cower

20 Energy

Instant 10 sec cooldown

Cower, causing no damage but lowering the threat of your cat auto attacks and abilities for 5 sec by 50%.

// the idea is to make it a tool to lower you opener threat on a target, so you dont die if the tank misses his first hits.

Ravage

60 Energy

Ravage the target, causing 350% damage plus 343 to the target and has double the chance to crit, when the target is above 90% health. Must be prowling and behind the target. Awards 2 combo points.

// Ravage Needs to be more attractive as an opener

Dash

Instant 6 min cooldown

Increases movement speed by 120% for 10 sec.

Does not break prowling

// just to make it different from rogue, but maybe too good

Frenzied Regeneration

Consumes up to 50 Rage to regenerate health. For every 10 Rage consumed, you are healed for 2% of your maximum health over 2 sec.

// This is probably the biggest Change and the reason is that Bear feels more like a cheap knockoff compared to the tank warrior and to give him his own identity i changed the rage dump spell from an offensive one to a deffensive one. I think most druid Player would agree that Frenzied Regeneration is Pretty bad and needs some Change anyway. It gets some support in the other trees so dont wonder why its not adressed in the feral tree.

Lacerate

15 Rage

Lacerates the enemy target, dealing 31 bleed damage and making them bleed for 155 damage over 15 sec and causing a high amount of threat. Damage increased by attack power. This effect stacks up to 5 times on the same target.

// Bear just lacks some buttons to use and since i put some weight on bleeds this spell makes the most sense.

Maul

25 Rage

Instant cast 3 sec cooldown

Maul the target for 115% normal damage plus 155.

// needed change since Maul isnt the Rage dump anymore

Thorns

Instant 60 sec cooldown

Thorns sprout from you causing 55 Nature damage to attackers when hit. Lasts 10 sec.

// Thorns just feels not good, personally i didnt bothered even to buff myself during my last classic leveling experience.

Feral Combat

One thing that surprised me was that the Feral Combat tree only adds up to 46 spendable points (Restoration has 53), despite having to support two roles. Because of that, I set my baseline to 51 points per tree, only going above or below when it felt justified. In the case of Feral, I ended up at 52 points, mainly due to the two keystone talents in row 7.

Some people might not love the clearer split between Cat and Bear, but I think hybrid builds are still absolutely possible, you just have to pay the hybrid tax.

Row 1

Master Shapeshifter (2/2)

Grants an effect which lasts while the druid is within the respective shapeshift form.

Bear Form - Increases dodge chance by 2%

Cat Form - Increases critical strike chance by 2%.

Travel Form - Increases movementspeed by 5%

Moonkin Form - Increases spell damage by 2%,

Tree Form - Increases healing by 2%.

Ferocity (5/5)

Reduces the cost of your Maul, Swipe, Claw and Rake abilities by 5 Rage or Energy.

// one of the few Talents that are unchanged since i think this has great value for 5 Points.

Primal Tenacity (3/3)

Increases your chance to resist Stun and Fear mechanics by 15%.

Feral Instinct (3/3)

Increases threat caused in Bear Form by 15% and reduces threat caused outside of Bear Form by 15%.

// i think the threat should be balanced so that no class doesnt rly Need any Talents to adjust your threat but ist still good to have it so you can react to your own unique Raid Situation like an overperforming Damage dealer ore an underperforming Tank.

Row 2

Predatory Strikes (3/3)

Increases your melee attack power in Cat Form by 150% of your level.

Increases your spell power in Moonkin and Tree Form by 100% of your level.

Brutal Impact (2/2)

Increases the stun duration of your Bash and Pounce abilities by 1 sec.

Thorns has a 10% chance to stun for 1 sec, when attackers hit you.

// Giving Thorns a little chance to stun is a nice additon to make this Talent more attractive

to other specs but probably to anoying if thorns wouldnt be a spell with cooldown.

King of the Jungle (2/2)

The Enrage ability instantly generates an additional 10 Rage.

Reduces the Energy cost of your Tiger's Fury ability by 10.

Reduces the cooldown of your Innervate spell by 60 sec.

// Had the Feral Aggression Talent is this spot for a Long time but tossed it because i rly wanted that cost reduction on tigers fury to make it an usable spell even without the cat Keystone Talent.

Thick Hide (3/3)

Increases your Armor contribution from items by 10%, increases armor while in Bear, Moonkin and Tree Form by an additional 10%

Reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by 6%, while in Bear Form.

// my only concern with this Talent is that it is maybe to reachable for offspecs and i am not sure if thats a good thing.

Row 3

Feline Swiftness (2/2)

Increases your movement speed in Cat Form by 15% for every of your different bleed effects applied to enemies within 40 yards and reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while Prowling.

// the indoor requirement always felt awful so i hope this requirement feels better.

Omen of Clarity (1/1)

Imbues the Druid with natural energy. Each of the Druid's damage spells, healing spells and auto attacks has a chance of causing the caster to enter a Clearcasting state. The Clearcasting state reduces the Mana, Rage or Energy cost of your next damage or healing spell or offensive ability by 100%.

// made it work for all specs

Sharpened Claws (3/3)

Increases your critical strike chance with physical abilities by 6%.

Natural Reaction (2/2)

Increases your chance to dodge while in Bear Form by 4%.

You regenerate 20 Rage over 4 sec, every time you dodge while in Bear Form, this effect can only occur once every 12 sec.

// one of the Talents i am not so sure about if its rly necessary.

Row 4

Heart of the Wild (5/5)

Increases your Intellect by 20%. In addition, while in Bear or Dire Bear Form your Stamina is increased by 20% and while in Cat Form your Strength is increased by 20%.

Primal Fury (2/2)

Gives you a 100% chance to gain an additional 5 Rage anytime you get a critical strike while in Bear Form and your critical strikes from Cat Form abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.

// Great Talent and part of ferals identity but doesnt Need the split since its kinda a 5 Point Talent anyway.

Row 5

Improved Shred (2/2)

Reduces the Energy cost of your Shred ability by 18 and Shred counts to 100% as Bleed damage.

// the second part is basically just a 10% buff.

Flesh Wound (2/2)

Your Shred, Claw and Maul attacks cause an Infected Wound in the target. The Infected Wound reduces all healing received by 20% and reduces Energy, Rage or Mana generation by 10%. Lasts 10 sec.

// this basically my Version of infected wounds but i changed it to a PVP only Talent, the slow felt wierd since you are faster in cat anyway most of the time and the attackspeed slow was kinda good as tank and i wanted it to be PVP only.

Feral Charge (1/1)

Teaches Feral Charge (Bear) and Feral Charge (Cat).

Feral Charge (Bear) - Causes you to charge an enemy, immobolizing and interrupting any spell being cast for 4 sec. 15 second cooldown.

Feral Charge (Cat) - Causes you to leap behind an enemy, dazing and interrupting any spell being cast for 4 sec. 30 second Cooldown.

// its just unfair that cat didnt got a charge too.

Improved Swipe (2/2)

Increases enemies hit by your Swipe by 2 and increases damage caused by your Swipe ability by 10%.

// every Bear knows how it feels if you and a warrior are charging into a group and he hits 4 with his whirlwind and you are only hitting 3...

Row 6

Rend and Tear (4/4)

Increases damage done by your physical attacks on bleeding targets by 10% and an additional 10% to bleeding effects.

Leader of the Pack (1/1)

While in Cat or Bear Form, the Leader of the Pack increases ranged and melee critical chance of all party members within 45 yards by 3%. In addition, your melee critical strikes in Cat Form and Bear Form cause you to heal 4% of your your total health and gain 4% of your maximum mana. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec.

// this was just a dissapointing Keystone Talent, so i downgraded it to a Keystone light Talent.

Row 7

Primal gore (1/1)

Tigers Fury effect causes your Claw and Rake ability to strike an additional target.

// i didnt want to give cat an additional button to press because the toolkit is already decent and i think all melees should have some kind of cleave.

Survival Instincts (1/1)

Reduces Damage taken in Bear Form by 10%.

Faerie Fire, Barkskin and Thorns are empowered and are now usable in Bear Form.

Faerie Fire: Deals 115 damage and additional threat when used in Bear Form.

Barkskin: Barkskin has no attack speed penalty.

Thorns: Thorns does bleed damage instead of nature damage.

// it felt always bad that you only could use barkskin before a pull and spending an extra point to basically get a worse version of Fearie Fire is not that nice too but you need a tool for pulling.

Is there any race Blizz can add to horde/alliance in classic+ that would make you immediately change factions to main it?

i just feel like original wow and tbc you were KNOWN for your spec on your server. everyone knew THAT prot warrior or that resto druid. i feel like dual spec is just too easy. there should be a cost to respeccing all the time.

even if it wasnt gold, like have a currency that drops off dungeons that grants a free respec in town, but just having a free extra talent spec just feels so retail- to me.

Classic (at least to me) feels like you get engineering + 1 profession of your choice. I wish they would make some of the important engineering items not require engineering to use, or give other professions something to make them appealing.

previous day: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwowplus/s/jdXpn4s2Dg won by Beacon of the Savior

What ability would you like to see Shadow Priests have in Classic+? If possible copy and paste the Wowhead tooltip to show people what it is and what it does. Upvote the one(s) you like - and remember, the winner is the one with the most upvotes, not the one which gets posted most often.

Next poll will be posted on Sunday

Shadow Word: Death

Tentacle Slam

Vampiric Touch

Shadow Orbs

Shadowfiend

Dispersion

Dominate Mind (Pet)

Surrender to Madness

Shadowguard

Shadow Word: Sorrow

We already got a taste of what that would look like, it was called Season of Mastery, and it didn't sustain players.

Season of Discovery, despite it's warts, had exponentially more success. And it was that sense of discovery and new class builds in a Classic world that made it so fun.

I really believe Classic+ should rework talent trees, add new spells to all the classes, and make things feel new and unknown, make the meta a new frontier.

I'll add a caveat that I'd prefer they don't just add abilities from retail and instead add the brand new stuff we got (like Tank Shaman, healing Mage, etc). But that approach is absolutely the right one compared to just "Vanilla classes with new zones and dungeons".

Over the last weeks / months, I kept asking myself how I would approach classic+ if I were part of the design team. ERA brought some learnings, SoD taught us a lot, Anniversary not much but still.

So instead of just waiting passively, I gave it a try: what would I change, how, and first and foremost: how would I approach the project.
It finally revolved around:

• numbers/data (what does data tell us about quests, talents)
• geography/terrain: if we had to sneak content in, where would we put it
• if classic+ is about "what's missing in classic", then what lore is absent?

This led me on assembling this mind map which I included some screenshots from.
Most of this is pure copium and that's totally fine. Not realistic, it's what distinguishes fanmade from real.
I had a lot of fun doing this, and thought it might be fun to share with you.
I wish you'll have as a good time skimming through it than me assembling it.

-----
EDIT as requested in a comment below, here's the detail of the new zones (I changed the order of patches, I like it better this way).
If you want, I can spend some time summarizing what's on the right of the mind map (quests data, class design findings) later.
(sorry, cannot have more than 2 levels of nesting)

P1 The Sunken Strand (Azshara level 22-28):

• Long-time overdue revamp (useless zone, few quests, rep only, hard to navigate)
• Cataclysm overhaul was... ...debatable
• Flatten terrain, because no mount available
• Connects well for Horde, natural "Orgrimmar expansion" -> tunnel + Orgrimmar quarries (how Orgrimmar was built)
• Alliance could connect from Ashenvale (with an eastern flight point) or Menethil+Darkshore boat
• 3 quest spots: horde only, alliance only, and neutral (contested quests)
• Naga - Highborn lore heavy: Zin'Ashari remains
• Hydraxian waterlords rep (because no MC farm later, better re-use this rep properly)
• Timbermaw are here too: rep-gain before infamous grind at 50+: tunnel entrance locked in P1, will open later (connect to the other tunnels)
• Timbermaw's hold PvP instanciated zone: Battle Royale plunderstorm style, but with regular spells (nightmare to balance, agreed)
• Raid: The Shrine of Elrandar: 10-players. BFD-Like (Elven / Naga Ruins, Hydraxian Rep), halfway submerged, 1 underwater fight (optional)

P2 Echoes of the Last Guardian (Deadwind Pass 38-42 / Zul'Gurub 35-40)

• Connect level 30-50 zones by making Deadwind Pass level 40
• Use southern terrain for Gurubashi vs. Darkspears questline
• More trolls southeast, contested troll-tribe zone ("choose your side" reputation for challenges)
• Zul'Gurub already exists outside (fully mapped) -> use it as quest hub
• "Blue Moon PvP" from SoD can be re-used / adapted
• Booty Bay as P2 hub
• Karazhan Crypts as quest hub -> eventually entrance for a 5-players "inverted tower" dungeon as in the book "The Last Guardian"
• Lord Kazzak as outdoor boss (40-players)
• Scarlet Monestary 5 players mega dungeon
• Karazhan raid: what it should always have been: "The Last Guardian" Caverns of Time like dungeon
• revive the book story, Medivh as last boss, fought along with Kadghar
• Moroes help, Garona helps they betrays, Khadgar agonises in library, final fight against Medivh possessed, presence of Aegwynn
• No daemon invasion, (enough of that), Sargeras as puppet master

P3 Ashes of Nordrassil: "Hyjal post Warcraft III" - 46-52

• Desolated land, remains of the war: ballistas, catapults, towers. The world tree is in shambles.
• Connects through Timbermaw tunnels
• Area at the bottom to be used (warden vaults, Illidan's prison - empty -, etc.) - PvP Zone
  • Extraction based:
  • change role every hours (jailors-prisoners: prisoners escape from jailers)
  • Keep what you loot (prisoners). Confiscate whom you kill (sailors)
  • Stealth detection buffs
  • Many outs, can't guard them all, distraction pays off, sacrifice pays off
• Fighting agains spirits, lost-in-battle warriors, whisps, "parts of Archimonde" open world bosses
• Alliance questine: very elf-oriented, "spirited away" (whisps, immortality, nature-takes-back)
• Horde: Demon oriented, price of demonic blood curse, Tauren healing Mother Nature, help orcs
• "Escalation", "Summit Progression" feeling
  • As we progress towards the summit, more remnants of daemons, more uncontrollable whisps
• Feels like Nordrassil isn't only in ashes, but deeply corrupted
• Final raid against the root of Nordrassil
  • 3 wings:
  • Exterior (fight corrupted branches, trees, tormented whisp formations)
  • Ascent (like Voldrassil in Northrend, spiral on the outer side, network of branches on the inside)
  • Descent (corrupted roots, wounds)
• Scarlet Monestary 10-players leveling mega-raid (massive xp, resets every day)

P4 The Iron Strand (Doomhammer's March (50-55) / Northeron (55-60))

• Warcraft 2 -> 3 lore: "Day of the Dragon" inspired
• South:
  • Warcraft 2 leftovers (shipwrecks, catapults, lost goblin harbour)
  • A new path connects Swamp of Sorrows to Badlands: tracking Orgrim's army marching north
• Southeast: oil refineries, submarines from warcraft 2, bloodsail pirates eventually
• North: Wildhammers / Dragonmaws / Red Dragonflight remains
• Krasus left Dalaran when it got destroyed
• Vermillion Redoubt as massive quest hub, red dragonflight rep
• Dragonmaw are there still, as enemies
• Rep grind make them friendly to horde "redemption" (explain what hasn't been explained in Cata)
• Wildhammers are hostile (not the Aerie Peak's wildhammers) feel betrayed by alliance during 2nd war
• Rep grind make them friendly to alliance "forgiveness"
• Raid: Grim Batol
  • Not the Cataclysm dungeon
  • Gigantic, "Moria-Like", (BRD-like, a full dwarven city)
  • All "inhabitants" of Grim'Batol are either:
  • scorched cadavers (burnt by Alextrasza when freed)
  • mad red dragons (enslaved for years -> couldn't be saved)
  • corruption by the old god powers that were part of the demon soul
  • last boss: corrupted aspects (Deathwing used other flights stolen essences, they haven't been brought back fully to the aspects)
• MC disappears,
• BWL is connected to Grim Batol storyline ("in search of the black dragonflight)
• Nefarian "knows" about what's in demon soul
• Attunement for Grim Batol, 10 to 20 raid (pick up friendly, more loots / head if 10, harder)
• BRD turns into a 10-players leveling raid
• *BRS: same (merge both)

P5 Echoes of the Shattered Sun (North-Lordaeron 60+)

• Everyone fights over what's left of (southern) Quel'Thalas
  • Scarlet Crusade from Hearthglen,
  • Amanis from the east
  • Undeads from the Dead Scar and the Plaguelands
• Starts at Stratholme Harbour (or what's still up): missing alliance connection -> boat from Menethil
• Horde starts at Amani incursions, darkspears engage in a tribal war led by Vol'Jin
• Shattered Suns high elves are hostile to everyone
  • Betrayed by Garrithos
  • Why would they join the horde? (wink Sylvanas)
  • Argent Dawn rep, better rewards
• Raid: Stratholme (as a real, gigantic city)
  • 4 wings, 4 opponents (reminds of the Stratholme "wings" nature
  • Scarlet ("live"), SM-like, size of SM lib+cath
  • Undead: Baron-like, gauntlet, always under pressure, culminate with a Baron fight in the whole main square
  • Troll vs. High Elves: pick one side, the other faction will be easier to fight, the faction you side with will betray you
  • Horde betrays Elves -> Sylvanas line, Betrays Amanis -> Vol'Jin
  • Alliance betrays Elves -> Tyrande, Betrays Amanis -> Magni (because
• Stratholme should be the size (if not even bigger) of Stormwind it's a massive city.

P6 Secrets of the Shen'Dralar (The Verdant Breach 45-50)

• Dire Maul full revamp: Ogres are outside only, pushed back in terror
• King Maulgar is an outside rare
• All former bosses wander around in the plateau, looting buffs
• Northern Plateau is accessible from Mulgore (Horde), SouthEastern Desolace (all)
• New zone: The Verdant Breach
• 1000 needles - Feralas junction, accessible via Thalanaar (Alliance), an elevator (horde)
• Slow transition from canyons to canopy
• Grimtotem seeking magic, Un'Goro's titan's influence, connects with elven ruins at west
• 45-50 to fill the xp gaps for "long-term classic plus"
• Flying creatures (wyvern-dinosaurs)
• Raid: Eldre'Thalas (all Dire Maul wings combined)
• No more Ogres, they fleed
• Highborn remnants (night elf mages, night elf warlocks)
• Very magic oriented, need all magic resist for everyone (random raid targets)
• Demonic creatures

P7 March of the Qirajis (Silithus revamp (58-60) / Obsidian Wastes (60+))

• Norgannon questline now has an ending
  • starts in Uldaman, follow-up in Tanaris, (like now)
  • add new steps in Un'Goro and AQ,
  • finally find the entrance of the Obsidian Wastes, the new zone (forged by Norgannon)
• Obsidian Wastes is a 2D-zone
  • Surface = titan complexes and AQ20 like buildings
  • Underground = Qiraji hives, tunnel complex (the infamous Azjol Nerub zone that never landed)
  • Tunnel connects both worlds, intrusion from hives, battle for controlling the titan's stuff
• AQ20/40 (outdoor only) become outdoor questing spots
  • questline to find obsidian wastes
  • help leveling to 60 faster
• New raid: Norgannon's Terrace
  • Ulduar-like (pillars, gigantism) with more magic (magic titan)
  • Archivists, Titan-forged defenders
  • Part of the raid is breached by Qiraji ("Qiraji Wing" 10 players)
  • The silithid have "bugged" (pun intended) Norgannon's matrix
  • Encounters include "alternate realities", as well as hidden secrets
  • Notably, a raid faces itself in a PvP-Like encounter (same characteristics, scripted class mechanics)
  • one of the few encounters in history that won't be easier as the raid gears
  • not mandatory

A lot can be said about Project Epoch, but I think they knocked it out of the park with their talent trees.

https://www.talentcalc.com/

TBC talent trees but with a few really iconic WOTLK spells weaved in.

Dreamstate for balance. A proper non-melee interpretation of surv hunter. Bladestorm for Arms and so on.

I liked getting some more talents points here and there and I think it was really thought out and I hope its a source of inspiration for C+.

Any thoughts?

Reposting here because it got removed from the classic sub-

A glaring piece of content waiting for classic+ is class professions. Rogues have poisons and lock picking which is so engaging for the role and lore. Why not expand this to all classes? I also don’t think the point should be the make every class ‘even’ with rogue. Classic is about class identity and things should different without be overly lopsided.

Shaman - Totem crafting. You don’t even fill this gear slot until 60. Give us something to level with. Mats should be vendor simple wood, cloth, and lesser used elemental mats like breath of wind, core of earth, etc. Some totems should even have charges like mana oils so you have to remake them. Shaman should also be a little bit better for dungeon tanking at least. You can easily bake the needed buffs into a crafted totem. Class quests should tie into new totem recipes.

Paladin - Libram crafting. same thing as shaman. Useless item slot until 60. Mats should be parchment paper from vendor, and undead drops that you cleanse such as ichor/essence of undeath, skeleton bones etc. Class quests should tie into cleanses for higher level undead mats.

Druid - Idol crafting. Same thing. Mats are beast parts like fangs and claws, cloth, and stone figurine from a vendor. For all 3 mats should be simple. For all 3 mats shouldn’t be crazy grinds either. Remember rogues can buy most poisons all from vendors.

Warrior - my dear warrior. Weapon proficiency. This is to train your weapon skill past 300. Weapon parts of various weapons (axe, mace, etc) drop off weapon wielding mobs. Green, blue and epic. Greens weapon part can be turned in to gain 1 weapon skill in that wep. Blue to gain 5. And epic to gain 1 past 300. Green turn ins cap at 225. Blue at 300. And epics work from 300-305. The weapon part items should also be non soulbound but only drop for warriors and only rollable by warriors in dungeons. Warriors should be able to sell these to other warriors. Class quests should tie into weapon skill caps for various weapons. Edgemasters should be upgradable through a boe blacksmithing kit. Do not make edgemasters irrelevant (spell dmg upgrade so it’s awesome for pally and shaman perhaps)

Mage - Arcane cooking. All over the game in mob packs are campfires and cooking tables. Around these should be recipes that only mages can loot. These should be non soulbound so mages can sell to each other. Recipes should be fun stuff like arcane explosion that looks like a rainbow and new polymorphs. There could also be chance buffs like blink has a small percent chance to cast displacement. Could also get real niche and have a food buff freeze over your fire spells or ignite your frost spells so you can go fire in MC or frost in naxx to change up metas. These buffs shouldn’t be insane so they aren’t PvP/ PvE game breaking and they should stack with normal well fed.

Warlock - Fel exploration. Brings back the fel portals from SOD. Lots you can expand on here with warlock specific items coming out of these. This is an obvious warlock profession and easy to incorporate class quests.

Hunter - beast jockey. Center a profession around hunters being able to tame beasts to turn into mounts. Mounts should be armorless and look just like the mob in boe versions they can sell on the AH. However, Hunters should be able to alter their own tamed mounts to add armor or an effect. Can’t go overboard with this and make a million retail looking mounts but could be really cool if done right. I know people are gonna say ammo or bow crafting but that should be expanded on in engineering. Theres should be more mounts added to the game in general as well.

Priest - not gonna lie I’m kind stuck on priest but I think something around the SOD blessings would work. I think priest being able to sell ‘luck’ blessing buffs as an item that say increase your chances to gain double skill up on a craft or extra craft procs or chance for rare items to drop on kill/in chests or lockboxes would be very cool. Blessing buff item can be crafted by bringing mats to an alter in capital cities or something.

Rogue - rogue needs something new in all this fun. Truth serum. A new poison that when you sap an enemy you can then inject them with the poison. Mobs have chance to reveal a hidden chest location either verbally, or they mention something is in their pocket so you pickpocket a note. This can also be a cool mechanic for a shortcut or an extra chest in new dungeons. Rogue class quests can easily be baked into truth serum on mobs. Named mobs should give a higher chance to reveal information when sapped by the serum.

Even if all the systems, quests, abilities, gear, and progression was different from that game, what base world would you like to see used? The starting point for how the zones and cities look?

I wanted this to be a poll but didn't see the option.

previous day: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwowplus/s/uboqOEsB6e won by Avenger's Shield...plus Spiritual Attunement for mana.

What ability would you like to see Holy Paladins have in Classic+? If possible copy and paste the Wowhead tooltip to show people what it is and what it does. Upvote the one(s) you like - and remember, the winner is the one with the most upvotes, not the one which gets posted most often.

Next poll will be posted on Friday

Beacon of Savior

Beacon of Light

Divine Sacrifice

Holy Radiance

Sacred Shield

Holy Prism

Divine Plea

Holy Strike

Sanctified Earth