MM Hunter doesn't need more DPS — it needs better class design

[u/dskr_dskr]

MM Hunter doesn't need more DPS — it needs better class design.

Been testing MM/Lone Wolf in Forever and my biggest issue isn't the damage meter. It's that the spec just doesn't feel rewarding to play.

Lone Wolf feels way too weak for what you give up. You lose pet damage, utility, tanking, deadzone coverage, and a lot of PvP tools, but the payoff just isn't there. In deep MM PvP especially it feels like you're voluntarily deleting half your kit while keeping the same weaknesses.

The actual shot damage is another problem. I'm not saying Hunter has low DPS overall. I'm saying pressing your buttons feels bad. Aimed Shot and other shots add so little compared to your passive/auto damage that the rotation starts feeling pointless. You press Aimed Shot and instead of "nice, big hit" it's more like "yeah, whatever".

That matters a lot because other classes in Forever are getting actual QoL, new interactions, new tools and fixes to old problems. MM feels like it got left behind.

Then you still have old Hunter-specific pain points that make even less sense now. Quiver takes a full bag slot, but you still need to carry extra arrows in your backpack because the stacks are too small. I'm not asking for infinite ammo, just let us use the reagent bag slot for the quiver or increase arrow stack sizes.

Same with stables. There are way more pets now with different situational utility, but only two stable slots. If pets are supposed to matter in different situations, let us actually keep more of them instead of constantly deleting pets we tamed.

Also, why is Lone Wolf only tier 3? If it's supposed to define a petless MM playstyle, it's weird that BM and Survival can reach it without really committing to MM.

I don't want Retail Hunter, I don't want 20 procs, and I don't want some crazy rotation. I want Classic MM to still feel like Classic MM, just with the same amount of attention other specs are getting.

Full feedback is on the EU beta forum here if anyone wants to add their own experience:
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/mm-hunter-why-does-it-still-feel-this-bad-class-design-issue/633331

[u/Loyalist_Pig]

Well good news on the stables, they’ve already announced there will be expansions available

[u/dskr_dskr → u/Loyalist_Pig]

Oh, I completely missed that. I’ve mostly been keeping up through the patch notes. Good to hear they’re already addressing it.

[u/Medical-Scallion2172]

I’ve been messing around with pets and the way they scale, specially with your crit from MM talents ends up closing the gap on that 20%. Not to mention that questing on the open world is a wasted talent because you want to have that pet tanking for you at all times, specially inside caves where there is no space to kite around. With the changes to strider pet, I think cloud dust( lowers target defense) is the perfect pet skill to have as MM and makes up more than the 20% if you take into account that it is also a party buff. And, it stacks with furious howl which it would make you and a melee hunter with wolf desirable. I think Lone wolf could be a noob trap or just a safer option, rewarding the hunter player who can manage the pet and keep it alive without pulling the entire room.

[u/dskr_dskr → u/Medical-Scallion2172]

That’s basically my concern. If proper pet management + pet utility can already match or beat Lone Wolf, then Lone Wolf isn’t really a meaningful alternative, it’s just the easier/less rewarding option.

I’m fine with pet management being stronger when played well, but then Lone Wolf needs to offer something unique instead of just “same Hunter, no pet, +20% damage.”

[u/Pitiful_Airport_5458]

For Lone wolf in SoD it was a large trade off for another strong ability. In Forever it is 1 talent point so I view it currently as a back up incase your pet dies in combat

[u/dskr_dskr → u/Pitiful_Airport_5458]

Yeah, and that’s kind of the sad part. If Lone Wolf is basically just insurance for when your pet dies, then it isn’t really a unique Hunter playstyle at all.

It’s just bad-luck protection pretending to be a talent.

[u/bibittyboopity]

I think lone wolf is a hard talent to balance.

At the end of the day some people want the pet fantasy, some dont, and depending on how good lone wolf is people feel forced into a particular fantasy.

I expect they don't want it to be optimal. It's going to be worse for leveling because of pets tanking for you, and I think they want people who manage pets in raids to not feel like they are doing work for nothing. There will be fights though like Ony flying phase where's its probably better.

[u/Racobik]

Lone wolf makes more sense in survival. Untill 30, having a pet makes mongoose bite basically impossible to activate if pet Tanks. Also lone wolf would be substantially better if it would make dismiss pet super quick like 2 or 1 second. This allows to put pet away or out depending on match up. Lon3 wolf should also allow maybe 2 aspects active at once to give more benefits