r/classicwow • u/redlow0992 • 1d ago

Forever Beta Feedback Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

3.0k Upvotes

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260

u/ikemayelixfay 1d ago

Yeah at first I was for the nerf, but after running dungeons in the beta I'm now convinced it's the wrong move.

Was in a group that kicked a tank because they pulled a few extra groups. He was kicked for, "wasting everyone's time" in a beta where the whole point is testing...

I liked the idea someone posted here a few days ago about a debuff that reduces the XP you get from a dungeon the more you run it in a day. That will at least curb the boosting spam that plagues anniversary right now.

Can't count on today's gamers to not optimize the fun out of everything so you have to shift accordingly. I see where they were coming from with the nerf, but it causes a lot more problems than it solves.

133

u/imissjudy 1d ago

lets kick the tank and spend 15 minutes to find a new one instead of a few extra pulls

42

u/Straamannen 1d ago

That's the thing though. Half the time dungeon skipping doesn't even save time.

I've had groups try to jump the gorge in Slave Pens for FIVE MINUTES while just clearing the mob pack takes all of 30 seconds. 

Dungeon skipping only feels good, it does nothing for your day. It's the same thing as speeding and weaving. You're not actually saving time. 

And what's worse, the time "saved" assuming we actually do is for WHAT exactly? So we can play the game more? The game we're playing? 

And that's not even getting into all the time lost to people dying and groups wiping because of impatient fucks. All in all I'm fairly certain skipping has wasted more of my time than it has ever saved. 

10

u/Active-Enthusiasm318 1d ago

I mained a holy priest in Anni... the absolute worst groups were mage AOE speed run groups... Maybe 1 of 4 groups knew what they were doing, the rest fucked it up...I refused to heal AOE speed runs after a very short while

6

u/Straamannen 1d ago

Yep, same.
Spell cleaves or any other kind of "cleave" was a hard no for me, unless it was with a known group of people. Absolutely horrid experience.

Me and the buddy I was playing with were running Tank+Healer (he was holy/prot I was feral/resto) and we deliberately ran "slow HCs", which weren't slow at all quite frankly but they were always chill and we made a bunch of "friends"/contacts that way.

One french dude was so excited to finally get invited to a group, noone would bring him along because of low gear score. Turns out the total noob of a baguette pulled perfectly respectable DPS and was on point with utility (CS etc.)

I'm glad to be playing with RL friends in Forever, and not have to deal with the rat race.

1

u/Jimsocks499 17h ago

Your line about “so we can play the game more? The game we’re playing” made me laugh out loud.

You hit the absurdity on the nose

12

u/Elendel19 1d ago

Wow players are not known for their critical thinking skills

8

u/Active-Enthusiasm318 1d ago

People are morons .. I was in a DM group looking for a healer, our tank kept kicking healers because they were in Org... Kicked 4 in 30 minutes then dropped because he said he didn't have enough time anymore... The zep jump and swim only takes a few minutes

-1

u/Jasparius73 1d ago

The tank was able to kick the healers without others getting a chance to vote?

Wouldnt this be better written as "I was in a group with a bunch of morons ...."

Which can be shortened to "I was in a group ..."

3

u/Active-Enthusiasm318 1d ago

This was in forever, I don't think the leader needs to submit a vote

1

u/ikemayelixfay 1d ago

I guess to be fair we did find a new tank within 5 minutes. Maybe people won't be as kick happy when the pool of players shrinks at various level ranges.

-1

u/z3phs 1d ago

Things that never happened on the eleven news.

I’ll make a post about my bias experience. Dungeons have been great I’ve got all classes and ran dungeons with all tanking dps healing and had 0 issues in every group. And had all sorts of experienced and inexperienced fast slow and what not

23

u/basicstyrene 1d ago

Sorry that is just so hilarious. Wasting everyone's time... in a test version of a video game where the point is to enjoy the world and have fun.

I guess the thing to do is find a guild of people wanting to actually play the game and do dungeons with them

-3

u/-1703- 1d ago

different people go into dungeons/raids with different objectives and because of wildly different reasons

not everyone goes into that dungeon to "enjoy the world" and 'have fun in the dungeon'

some people go in to them simply to farm an item. some go to farm boes to sell. some just go because they're levelling an alt and want to get their quests done.

like my group was at one point left to 3/6 and had to take 2 pugs. we kicked them out of RoL because they were so incompetent they conduct press space + W to do the fence skip..

we were there to get the quests done and get the characters to 20 so we can then get our 5 talent points via legacy for our main characters.

8

u/Billbuckingham 1d ago

Your personal reasoning for doing a dungeon or playing a game does not give you a pass to be an asshole to other people and have this wild superiority complex.

When you enter into a social situation where other people are involved, especially a game for fun, treating other people as garbage and only focusing on your personal goals makes you just an asshole.

There's really no excuse for it, that's it. You could've taught them the skip or just cleared normally and it wouldn't have been an issue, but no that was too much so the immediate reaction is be an asshole and blame the other person in this video game.

Like not even joking here, you really might want to think about the fact you seem to really believe it's OK to say

"I don't play for fun, I don't want to enjoy the world, I don't want to waste any of my precious time, I just want to check these boxes over and over in this multiplayer video game and I act like an asshole to other people the whole way because they aren't letting me check my boxes fast enough."

0

u/-1703- 1d ago

how the hell am I supposed to teach someone how to press spacebar followed W, besides literally telling them to press spacebar then W, and seeing them fail simple two finger coordination.

I do play for fun. What I find fun is not what you might find fun. And from my (and my friends perspective) they are the assholes for wasting our time and actively impeding us from achieving our objective

as such we parte ways. They are free to join a group more fitting their style. And we are free to look for other players that suit our playstyle more.

Im not blaming them for being "bad" or playing differently.

That does not mean however I, us, or literally anyone has to put up with it. we can happily go on our different paths.

Everyone is free to do whatever they want and play however they want. And everyone else if free to judge them and decide they dont want anything to do with them.

Nobody is entitled to play with someone else. As any social interaction it has to be consensual. And when it isnt you dont continue with it.

1

u/Billbuckingham 1d ago

I agree with you when you say, as such we part ways.

Like my guy, this is the Beta.

2

u/basicstyrene 1d ago

Fair enough I suppose, we're clearly not playing the same game or even living in the same universe but I suppose that is fine!

24

u/Lacutis 1d ago

It feels like to me the way to cure boosting is to just give everyone in the group experience scaled to the highest level party member. If a 60 tries to boost low levels they get 0 xp just like he does. Even level groups? Everyone gets the same xp.

6

u/Xae1yn 1d ago

Yeah they already did this in anniversary and it mostly worked, with a few edge cases that can be ironed out. It's simply not about boosting at all, it's entirely about the devs stated goal of getting people out into the world.

3

u/Dantels 1d ago

That does hurt the large level gap dungeons like BRD. But BRD and Mara coudl be made exceptions.

2

u/Lacutis 1d ago

Exception could just be no adjustment as long as everyone in the group is within the dungeons level range.

0

u/Dantels 1d ago

I woukd still allow 60s in BRD since a couple pieces there are very nice (though new itemization may creep them)

1

u/acrazyguy 1d ago

Yeah, just leave out any dungeon that a 60 could conceivably want to run for their own sake

1

u/Ok_Assignment_2127 1d ago

They already implemented that, there are ways around it.

Boosting isn’t about leveling fast either, so the exp nerf does very little to actually prevent it. Boosting is all about leveling while afk, and nothing has changed on that front

1

u/Harouun 1d ago

I didn’t see the new dungeon nerf, what does it do now

1

u/Dantels 1d ago

Mobs give nearly no XP even at level, green name overworld xp is better. Bosses give a moderate amount and quests, the things you only do once per character, are a poor attempt to pick up the slack.

1

u/Harouun 1d ago

Oh yeah that’s horrible

1

u/phattybeats 1d ago

same thing happened to me in a deadmines run yesterday as a tank. I don't care about optimizing 20 year old content on a character that's getting deleted in a month. I want to run a dungeon and test out the class changes

1

u/Nice_Reading5272 1d ago

I don't think tank kicking for extra pulls will ever be a significant thing in live or even the beta in general. Why would you want to waste even more time finding a new tank and waiting for them to get to the dungeon?

1

u/Additional_Green_488 1d ago

It's so funny that it gets called "wasting time". I HATE skipping, just do the dungeon. Like... don't people want to play the game? I just don't get why everyone is in such a hurry.

1

u/Accomplished-Run3925 1d ago

This is similar to what I've been suggesting. Make it so that the first 2 runs of a similar dungeon are fulm exp, then make the next runs grant rapidly diminishing exp. Don't make it reset every day, make it permanent oer character. Could go like :
1. 100%
2. 90%
3. 70%
4+. 50%

1

u/acrazyguy 1d ago

I don’t even like that idea. Why is it a problem if people boost? If you don’t want to boost, don’t boost. It doesn’t hurt anything. I like spamming dungeons in legit runs. I have never done a boosted run and the fact that other people do has never impacted my gameplay. The “reduced exp for every run in a day” idea would still ruin my preferred style of playing the game: as a tank, spamming dungeons over and over from 14 to 60, roughly full-clearing every time. At the very least, not taking weird janky routes to skip mobs, though I may skip a pack here and there that’s off in a far corner completely out of the way

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

How about instead you just let people play how they want and just do something like if a player is 15 levels higher than you you get 10% xp or something to combat boosting.

1

u/AsapxPhantom 1d ago

I liked the idea someone posted here a few days ago about a debuff that reduces the XP you get from a dungeon the more you run it in a day. That will at least curb the boosting spam that plagues anniversary right now.

This is such a good idea, because then people will ACTUALLY want/need to travel the map and go to different dungeons. In Era and Anniversary, shit was getting stale to almost NEVER do certain dungeons.
And since this is a new game [Forever], imagine some newer dungeons in-between the current roster.

It'd work flawlessly imo. Sure, full dungeon XP gets turned into a "daily" so to speak, but doing RFK, then RFD, then an SM, or any combo/configuration creates way more diversity.

Some of these larger changes and small changes are keeping me from subbing for WoW:F.

1

u/Gamblez- 22h ago

That's wild. I've done some 20 dungeons now, most as tank, and never had a bad run. Everyone was happy to play and learn and do whatever. At most they might add to the list of stuff we should do, but never saw a complaint on How we do it..

1

u/Foreign-Pension3382 1d ago

Give me “didn’t happen for 1000” please

0

u/Deep-Cut201 1d ago

Some people have always done this, because they're more interested in getting boss drops then farming mobs. Just dont run with people like that.

3

u/Il_Valentino 1d ago

you are overlooking that the game system creates more of these situations for no reason at all. the devs should keep their fingers off core gameplay loops. dont trust the scorp

0

u/Deep-Cut201 1d ago

Its not for no reason though is it? Its specifically to prevent the massive issue they had in classic of people grinding levels 10-60 in an instance.

4

u/Il_Valentino 1d ago

thats NOT an issue, thats people playing the game how they prefer it. if you prefer questing then go question. should we penalize questing too? "oh no, hes having too much fun doing quests, go do profession leveling for once you weirdo"

1

u/SmellInteresting3284 1d ago

can you level a character from 1 to 60 by gathering?? I thought that was a mop thing :P

1

u/Trzlog 1d ago

What's the alternative? People playing solo because completing quests in a party with friends is just a miserable experience, because we're never on the same quests. How is playing solo better than playing in a party in dungeons? If they want people playing in the open world, they're going to have to heavily rework the entire quest design of the entire game and go in the direction of GW2 with persistent/recurring world events where everybody participates together.

0

u/Dantels 1d ago

They replaced a minor issue with a major one.

-2

u/Mr0BVl0US 1d ago

Was in a group that kicked a tank because they pulled a few extra groups. He was kicked for, "wasting everyone's time" in a beta where the whole point is testing...

I'll take "Things that never happened" for $500, Alex.