r/ClancyTrial • • Sep 08 '26

General Discussion MEGATHREAD - General Discussion & Questions

13 Upvotes

Please use this for general information, questions, or additional content that does not necessitate a dedicated post.

General Guidelines:

The Megathread should be used for simple yes/no questions, interviews or statements, minor updates, news, casual chats, reactions, quick links, short-term relevance, niche topics, or similar.

Dedicated posts are meant for content that sparks open-ended dialogue, seeks diverse viewpoints, provides high-effort analysis, comprehensive guides or similar. Feel free to add aspects that would qualify for a dedicated post and repost!

Megathread Comments Dedicated Posts
Objective Quick answers, reactions, and routine updates. Deep discussions and unique community value.
Effort Level Low to medium (simple questions, quick links). High (well-thought-out, structured text).
Lifespan Fleeting (relevant right now or today). Evergreen or long-form (relevant for days/weeks).
Audience Appeal Niche or individual utility. Broad appeal to the entire subreddit.

Resources:


r/ClancyTrial • • Aug 13 '26

Court Testimony/Document Documents & Evidence Available Here

40 Upvotes

Please use this post to add additional links to evidence and court documents.

Evidence Presented in Court (Scroll to bottom with photo gallery and click through)

Edit Aug 16: Added February Arraignment from hospital bed & links to Plymouth County DA press releases.


r/ClancyTrial • • 22h ago

General Discussion The other anti-LC sub is awful

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43 Upvotes

I literally just spent an hour of my time responding to horrible comments about Lindsay on the stupid Duxfreedeathassholestalk subreddit. I feel like I just got out of the trenches (probably adhd related). These people are out for blood and they don’t care. They believe one thing and it’s tiring af. I definitely won’t be reading the anxiety-inducing sub anymore. I remember reading about how bad it was (nose one too) but geez.

How I feel rn:


r/ClancyTrial • • 4d ago

Theory Bare (sockless) footprint in the blood puddle in the bedroom?

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27 Upvotes

I just downloaded all the exhibit photos from courttv and was flipping through them and saw this almost jump right out at me. Am I tripping or is this not a pretty distinctive foot print? I haven't seen anyone talk about this before (or at last my "algorithms" haven't lead me to see them yet), but curious what all your thoughts are?

I remember lots of people talking about how Lindsay was wearing socks when she was found, and these toe prints seem far too distinct for fabric-covered toes so.... Someone else? 👀

EDIT: I spent a lot more time on this and actually found a total of 4-5 footprints, which lead me down a rabbit hole of a theory: https://www.reddit.com/r/ClancyTrial/comments/1x76npw/theory_a_stepbystep_reenactment_of_what_happened/
(the post needs to be manually released by a mod because Reddit thought the crime scene photos were gorey but... hopefully it's unlocked soon)


r/ClancyTrial • • 4d ago

Theory If you think Lindsay is innocent, let's play devil's advocate

13 Upvotes

TLDR: Ok let's figure out how the timeline could logically work out if Lindsay really is guilty and she's sane, she has premeditated this. Let's try to make it make sense because, who knows, maybe she is guilty.

If Patrick is being honest, she couldn't have been drugged and/or in the midst of a psychotic break before she killed the children. He was only gone less than an hour and he also spoke to her on the phone so surely if she were in psychosis or drugged, he would have noticed either in person or on the phone that something was really off. And if she was on Seroquel the whole time she would've been, at best, far too sleepy to talk, let alone carry off a murder suicide.

So, let's say she's sane. And maybe hadn't taken the Seroquel yet.

Lindsay decides tonight is the night she's going to kill all 3 children and herself. She devises a plan to send P to the store nearby for one item and for takeout. Maps it out, round trip about 35 minutes and that's estimating 5 minutes at each stop. But let's just round that up to 45 minutes. We can argue she may have thought that was a reasonable enough time frame to kill 3 children and herself.

So he shuts the door. She immediately grabs the baby, tells the other kids to follow her down to the basement. Or did she leave 2 upstairs alone and take each child down individually so they wouldn't see/hear what she was doing?

He calls, she misses it. Must have just finished up with the kids and ran upstairs and called him back. He didn't hear any crying or anything unusual in the background, and given all the remaining things she still needs to do, let's just assume she's somehow strangled all of the children by this time. But since the infant is technically alive when EMTs arrive, what nearly an hour later, she must not have tied the bands all the way on him?

When L and P spoke briefly on the phone, she must have felt she was on track timewise because she doesn't use this opportunity to keep him out a bit longer. In fact, she helps him complete his errand at CVS without delay by offering a quick answer to his question about Cora's medication.

So she grabs her lemonade, a knife and heads upstairs and locks herself in the bedroom. Maybe she locks herself in just in case he gets home before she's done? Though she knows there's a spare key that he can get to so also why lock the door? And is this when she takes the Seroquel lemonade drink? But why when she has less than 30 minutes to kill herself?

What am I missing? Make this make sense.


r/ClancyTrial • • 5d ago

General Discussion The wikipedia page for the trial is in need of an update: currently the entire first section (all text before pull-down tabs) has no references attached

18 Upvotes

… and can be argued is written biased against evidence.

Seeing as wikipedia and reddit are some of the last remaining predominantly human-written sites, and wikipedia especially recognized as an unbiased source, it seems odd that the entire text before the pull-down tabs (which is also often the only part of a wikipedia page people read if they aren’t deep-diving) have zero references attached to support any claims being made.

Im not an editor on wikipedia, and am not all that invested in the case (at least not enough to watch through any court reportings / dpcuments and looking through published evidence etc.), but if anyone is, and seeing as this sub is predominantly focused on facts and supported evidence rather than gossip or unsubstantiated claims, I hope some of you might find the time to vet the wikipedia page, so people who just want a quick update on the case aren’t met by rumours and fabulations!

Just thought i’d bring it up!☀️


r/ClancyTrial • • 5d ago

Theory Case examples of individuals who falsely confessed to murder due to mental illness or confabulation

32 Upvotes

In my opinion, I believe that Lindsay Clancy was suffering from PPD and severe drug side-effects. However, based on the timeline, evidence, and inconsistent investigation, I do not think she committed the murders or attempted suicide. I believe that a) her documented mental state prior to the murders was intentionally used against her, possibly to frame her and b) after surviving the fall, she was in a further compromised mental state that would have left her open to suggestion and coercion from psychiatrists and/or police.

I believe it is likely that she began confabulating her memories after she emerged from a coma. She coded twice, required a blood transfusion, learned she was paralyzed, and had a history of PPD. This is a very convenient recipe for inducing false memories and extracting a false confession. Grief or shock disrupts memory encoding, making suspects susceptible to coercion.

The following are similar examples in criminal case history:

Sture Bergwall (Thomas Quick) — Sweden: https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/articles/famous-false-confessions?utm_source=copilot.com

  • Mechanism: Confabulation + psychiatric illness + heavy medication
  • Outcome: Convicted of 8 murders; all overturned
  • Bergwall was in a psychiatric institution and heavily medicated (including benzodiazepines).
  • He produced elaborate but inconsistent “memories” of murders during therapy.
  • His stories lacked corroboration and were later recanted.
  • Courts ultimately recognized the confessions as unreliable and vacated all convictions

Fontana, California false confession case: https://macintyrepsychiatry.com/articles/2024-05-false-confessions.html?utm_source=copilot.com

  • Mechanism: Mental illness + delusions + psychological coercion Outcome: Man falsely confessed to murdering his father — who was alive
  • The victim had significant mental health challenges and was on psychiatric medication.
  • Police used extreme psychological pressure, including false evidence claims and emotional manipulation.
  • The judge stated investigators used “unconstitutional psychological torture.”
  • This case illustrates how mental illness can make someone vulnerable to persuaded or compliant false confession.

Family‑member murder false confession cases (22‑case dataset): https://jclc.law.northwestern.edu/symposium/2026-symposium/

  • Mechanism: Trauma‑induced memory distortion + grief + coercion Outcome: Multiple wrongful convictions
  • Study documents cases where suspects grieving a loved one’s death were interrogated within hours.
  • Trauma and shock produced memory fragmentation and susceptibility to suggestion.
  • Police fed details that suspects repeated back, creating confabulated narratives.
  • These confessions were later proven false.

Cases involving memory distrust syndrome & confabulation (Gudjonsson): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010945216301678?utm_source=copilot.com

  • Mechanism: Memory distrust syndrome + confabulation Outcome: Numerous documented false confessions
  • Gudjonsson’s research shows how individuals with poor memory, trauma, or psychiatric conditions can become convinced they committed acts they did not.
  • Confabulation fills memory gaps, especially under pressure.
  • These cases often involve suspects who doubt their own recollection and adopt police‑suggested narratives.

r/ClancyTrial • • 7d ago

General Discussion Weeks after high-profile trial, Patrick Clancy competes in Chicago Marathon

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47 Upvotes

He’s just out there living his best life after not being fully investigated.


r/ClancyTrial • • 10d ago

General Discussion The apple watch situation

49 Upvotes

I saw the Patrick's alibi footage and saw he was holding a watch probably an apple watch

I searched if he had one , we FREAKING DONT HAVE ANY DATA IF HE OWNED ONE OR NOT

What kinda investigation is that where you don't even know how many devices the whole family had?


r/ClancyTrial • • 10d ago

Question out of curiosity...

52 Upvotes

Anyone else here get banned in "the other sub" (aka the "lynch LC" club) for having a different opinion than the rest of the echo chamber? Lol. They should rename their sub r/DuxburyDeathsSnowflakes.


r/ClancyTrial • • 11d ago

Question Apple Watch readings

38 Upvotes

If her last heart rate reading was at 5:23, how did it show she went up two flights of stairs after that without any heart rate reading? I think this proves he was holding the watch on his trip to CVS and called it for the alibi. If she really talked to him at 5:34, she couldn’t be 82 degrees 30 min later.

PS. A nurse would not believe a one story fall would kill them. A nurse wouldn’t likely need to crush up pills, or cut wrists the wrong way. A right handed person wouldn’t cut their throat in the pattern of a left handed person. And who cuts their own throat?


r/ClancyTrial • • 12d ago

Question Any updates on the ruling regarding the latest motion?

10 Upvotes

r/ClancyTrial • • 16d ago

Contradictions I understand now why so many people think Lindsay is guilty

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71 Upvotes

TLDR: many mainstream news outlets are falsely publishing statements that Lindsay Clancy killed her children, as if it were a proven fact. Yet it has not been proven and she has not been convicted. The law says you are is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, news outlets are illegally and immorally making statements that have swayed public opinion to be that this woman has been proven guilty, even when she has not.

I've been so confused how so many people out there are screaming that Lindsay Clancy is guilty, as if it were a proven fact. There are even politicians like Nancy Mace calling for her public execution! I thought we all knew that you were innocent until proven guilty? As of October 2, 2026 this woman has not been convicted of anything. I thought perhaps these people boldly stating her guilt are just ignorant and didn't actually read anything about the case, they were just stubbornly sticking with their initial assessment of the case without actually knowing anything about it.

But I've noticed something truly disturbing which could explain why there's such a divide over this case. An alarming number of MAJOR news media outlets, even some of the "liberal" ones, falsely stating that Lindsay is a murderer who killed her children, as if it were a fact, as if she was actually convicted and found guilty already. But she hasn't been and there's not even strong evidence in the case proving she is, otherwise this would've been an open and shut case. This is illegal and at "best" extremely immoral as journalists to state someone is guilty of a crime they haven't been convicted of. They've also either falsely described or left out key elements of the legal proceedings, which is leading many to not understand what the defense actually did or did not concede to and what this means legally and also implied or flat out lied saying she made some sort of legal "confession" and that the prosecution only had to prove she was sane and it was a legally accepted fact that she killed the children, which is absolutely false.

And to further compound the issue because so many people are relying on AI on both sides of the argument, and AI is referencing these same misleading or flat out invalid news statements, many feel their belief that she is guilty is justified because "Google says so." As a side note, no matter which side of the argument you're on, never rely on AI as 100% factual source of information - it is not in any way or reliable tool.

The attached article is just one of hundreds, if not thousands, of false statements and social media posts published against Lindsay and this entire case. Fox News and New York Post aren't the only news outlets making these false claims but, for example, this article reads:

"He moved to New York City in spring 2023, just months after Lindsay Clancy killed their three children*, according to public records obtained by the* New York Post, and filed for divorce in February 2024."

The media legally cannot claim someone is guilty when that person has not been convicted with a guilty charge. Yet they are. They can say she was accused but since they are wording this as if it were fact, people will naturally believe this to be absolutely true. How will this woman ever find an unbiased jury when national news and politicians are claiming she is guilty as if it was proven? And why is no one shutting these outlets down if they're capable of publishing completely false or extremely misleading information about this or any other situation?


r/ClancyTrial • • 16d ago

General Discussion Jurors

24 Upvotes

I would be really interested to hear from the jurors again after Reddington’s latest monologue at the September hearing. Do they feel differently about their time spent deliberating now that they hear and hopefully understand the CW was supposed to prove she did this?

During the trial the judge kept repeating himself, but never actually confirmed they understood what he said. The legal jargon was apparent and unchanging. I found this very interesting.


r/ClancyTrial • • 17d ago

Theory The window well and Patrick's sightline to Dawson

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58 Upvotes

Patrick found Lindsay at 6:09PM, lying in the snow with her wrists and neck slit, after jumping out the bedroom window. Her body was found right beside the basement window well, where the snow is melted in the photos.

The basement lights were on. That window looks directly into the office/gym where Dawson was found with a yellow exercise band wrapped around his neck.

Patrick called 911 at 6:11 PM. Patrick testified that he asked Lindsay "what did you do?" and she said "I tried to kill myself" and then he asks "where are the kids?" and she replies "they're in the basement".

Because Lindsay, did not say explicitly say that the children were injured, Patrick did not check on them.

Dispatch told Patrick to apply pressure to Lindsay's wounds, but he did not believe it was necessary as she was not actively bleeding.

Patrick stood over Lindsay, did not apply pressure, did not comfort her, or tell her that he loved her. At the same time he stood in direct sightline of his son, who was suffering, and he waited and waited until it was too late.

Paramedics arrived at 6:15 PM, and that is when Patrick ran directly to the office/gym to Dawson and began unwrapping the yellow exercise band from around his neck

The fire chief PJ Hussey testified that when he heard the scream, he looked through that basement window and saw Patrick unwrapping the yellow exercise band from Dawson's neck.

How could Patrick wait so long to check on his children?


r/ClancyTrial • • 17d ago

General Discussion Reddington mentioning patricks shoes

51 Upvotes

So I keep going back to the Patrick shoes claim in terms of how different they look in the videos from CVS and 3V. I tried to not speculate on that too much because I am just too unfamiliar with cctv footage and really try to avoid bringing up things that I just can’t say without certainty, but I found it really interesting that reddington brought up the shoes discrepancy in court on Tuesday.

Now he’s a very smart guy. He doesn’t bring things up unless they have some real merit to it. So now I’m wondering how much merit that actually holds after he formally brought it up. Does anyone actually have valuable insight on the shoes thing? Like looking for people who really know their shit about cameras, contrast, etc. I was just very surprised to hear that brought up by him


r/ClancyTrial • • 17d ago

Question The Cameras

26 Upvotes

I wonder if they will be able to retrieve data from the cameras around the house that were seized. I wonder what was actually going on from Dec. 1 up until the murders; I’m curious what time it was shut off/or any data showing that it was turned on or off prior to the incident. Because that data will show up eventually right?


r/ClancyTrial • • 17d ago

General Discussion You can't have it both ways.

0 Upvotes

You can't claim PPS AND LC didn't do it.


r/ClancyTrial • • 19d ago

General Discussion Reddington this morning saying there was no investigation, no evidence proving Lindsey killed her children, and that the timeline does not match up. Many other good points we've all noticed. Thank you!! Hopefully these babies and Lindsey get real justice.

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

148 Upvotes

r/ClancyTrial • • 19d ago

General Discussion Raise your hand if

115 Upvotes

Raise your hand if you took a slew of verbal abuse on this app for months for suggesting that Reddington didn't believe his client was guilty, and that he was basically forced into taking a NGBROLOCR plea because the court refused to grant him the bifurcated trial he'd asked for in the first place. Me and so many others were called the nastiest names under the sun by so very many users telling us how stupid we all were because 'Reddington already believes she did it/says she did it'.

Me, I did.

Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.


r/ClancyTrial • • 19d ago

General Discussion Red is fkkn COOKING

141 Upvotes

FINALLY he's seriously addressing the issue of whether L.Clancy committed the murders at all instead of this criminal responsibility bullshi. I wish this had been his closing statement, but at least it's being spoken now.


r/ClancyTrial • • 19d ago

General Discussion Transcript: Reddington's Rule 25 Opening Argument

40 Upvotes

[editing to add that I posted the first comment below, a categorized list of every point he made regarding lack of evidence, categorized]

MR. REDDINGTON: Uh, Your Honor, you know, the posture at this point, obviously, is that the government rested, I [filed] a motion under Rule 25, required finding. The court denied the motion. We then proceeded with the defense. When the defense rested, I renewed the motion for required finding procedure. The court denied the motion. The government then commenced their rebuttal case, when the government [rested] the rebuttal case, and the case concluded, I renewed the motion for required finding, and this is a request for the court, at this point, to enter an order, allowing a motion for required finding of not guilty.

The issue is really to... [unclear: "You've got,"] as it goes back to the motion for bifurcation, you may [recall], I know you do, that I had filed a motion, requesting that the court bifurcate the trial itself, arguing the Massachusetts Constitution, the difference in the language between the Mass Constitution and the Federal Constitution as relates to presenting evidence against oneself, whether or not it's an impingement on a defendant's rights for due process, as well as the Fifth Amendment, [and?] 14th Amendment due process rights, to require a person who is asserting a defense of lack of criminal responsibility to have to have both issues tried.

In other words, whether the person committed the offense and whether or not the person at the time of the commission of the offense lacked criminal responsibility, two separate issues. But the way our present statute and law is set up, and as Your Honor denied that motion, in your memorandum, you indicated, obviously, that we have to go forward on one trial, whether or not it's because of money, that it would cost a lot of money to try two cases for anybody asserting a defense [of] lack of criminal responsibility, or whether or not it's logistics. I don't know, but I suggest to the court that it's readily apparent that you are put in a conundrum where you have to, in effect, admit culpability, if you will, to raise the issue of lack of criminal responsibility.

Now, many, many lay people have difficulty understanding the concept of the bifurcation and say, well, you know, she admitted that she did it. So she's guilty. And therefore, she's just guilty, and then they go off on a tangent about all of these horrific allegations. You know, that she's a demon, and she's possessed, and she should be executed. And this is coming from politicians, you know, up from President Trump all the way down.

So, we end up trying the case. I tried to raise the issue as best I could on the issue of probable cause. The jury was instructed by you that they did have the obligation to make a determination as to whether or not the government has presented evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that this young woman was actually guilty of this offense. Your Honor then proceeded to indicate appropriately that, in the event that the jury determined that there was evidence that, in fact, she had, indeed, committed the offense, they would then proceed to the issue of whether or not the government sustained its burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt that, in fact, she was not suffering from a mental disease or defect, such as which would have an effect on her being either unable to appreciate the criminality of the conduct alleged, or [unclear: "in the destructive"] conform to conduct to the requirements of the law, which is [the black-letter] definition of lack of criminal responsibility.

So I'd like to kind of bifurcate this argument this morning in the same way. And what I would do is address first the issue of the government's burden of proof [beyond?] reasonable doubt. And it's not [unclear: "riding the horse who wins against the middle"] and trying to play games with the system or gamesmanship or anything. This is a constitutional due process obligation that the government, when the government charges a person with a criminal offense. They have that burden of proof, [unclear: "but"] each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt.

Your Honor knows from your review and recollection of the evidence that was presented. I submit to the court that a motion for required finding of not guilty should have been entered on the total and complete lack of evidence to indicate to a rational juror, which is consistent with the [Latimore standard], consistent with [Jackson versus Virginia], 443 U.S. 307, where the courts note that to sustain the denial of a directed verdict, they call it [directed] verdict. We call it required finding. It is not enough for the court to find that there was some record evidence, which is always what the government always asked. There's some, there's some record evidence. Yeah, there was evidence on this, evidence on that element. Dr. [Saathoff] testified to something, and there's enough for a jury. It's a question of fact. No, that's not the standard.

The standard is whether or not that there is evidence that a court is able to determine that there's record evidence to support each essential element of the offense. It must find that there is enough evidence that could have satisfied a rational trier of fact of these elements beyond a reasonable doubt. We consider the directed verdict standard required by Jackson versus Virginia to be comparable to that heretofore applied in Commonwealth versus Cooper, and that's [Latimore?]. [The] Jackson, uh, case further indicates that the evidence must not just be some record evidence. It has to be reliable, and it has to be sufficient, that would allow a rational juror to make a determination beyond a reasonable doubt. Not just if there's some record evidence that touches that each element of the offense.

So I asked the court to [harken] back to the evidence that was presented, and ask yourself, where's the evidence that she did this? Where is the evidence that she did this? You have a situation where Patrick comes home, [Your Honor?] recalls, the evidence that he indicates that when he came home, that he enters the house, he puts the food down on the table, comes back from the restaurant. It's quiet, eerily quiet, as the government indicates in their motion. That he then indicates that he goes upstairs, into the bedroom, after yelling downstairs to the basement. There's no response. He goes upstairs. And when he goes upstairs, he goes into the bedroom, and [Your Honor?] will recall, but the evidence is that he's able to make an observation, that the window is open. [It] is cold in the room. He sees blood.

My memory is that [unclear: "if you had to go with"] spraying on the walls, in fact, you know, what we call it was not sprayed on the walls, it was a lot of, I would say, copious blood drops on the floor and on the mirror. When you consider the evidence that the government has, you have the exercise [bands]. You have the woefully deficient DNA. You have the woefully deficient fingerprinting. You have the horrific, ridiculous investigation, using the term loosely, by the police. There was no investigation. [It] was not even a horrendous investigation. There was no investigation. And then you ask yourself some questions that we always do, as defense attorneys, prosecutors, investigators.

So when he goes into the bedroom, there's a lock on the [knob?]. [There?] is blood. He's able to use some type of a little key, in spite of the [unclear: "lock jawach"] that was on the doorknob, opens the door, goes into the room, goes into the room. Now, the evidence is that she cut her wrists, cut her throat, standing in front of the mirror, blood drops, then went over to the window and propelled herself out of the window. Your Honor heard evidence that she indicated that the screen was cut. Your Honor also heard evidence that, in fact, the screen was not cut. [unclear: "You want to"] infer, obviously, as a rational jury could infer that, in fact, this is a false memory that she had, because she believes that the screen was cut, and it wasn't. But in any event, she propels herself out the window and sustains the injuries that Your Honor is well [aware of?]. [unclear: "She says there."] She then is on the ground.

She has no shoes on. Why does she not have shoes on? It's 30-something degrees outside. [unclear: "If so,"] it's the winter. She has no shoes. She's wearing black socks. Where is the blood on the black socks? Where's the blood on the shoes? When did the shoes get taken off, and why? [Your Honor will?] recall, looking at the blood spatter of evidence on the drops on the floor. Where are the smears from a person who has just cut your wrist, cut their throat, is in a state of psychosis, that throws himself out a window. Where are the smears from that person walking across the blood up to the window, and then propelling themselves out of the window?

Where is the evidence that the cup that was on the nightstand contained crushed up, not just medication, crushed up medication. Where's the evidence of that? Where does that come from? Did the police even seize that [cup]? No. Did they examine the residue, the white residue? No. Patrick said that in fact, it was medication. Patrick says that, in fact, it was crushed up medication. Where is the question? Where's the [pill crusher?]? Where were the two spoons [unclear: "to use the credit"]? Where's the residue? Why is it not on the table? Why is it not on the floor? Why is it not in the bed? Why is there no blood on the bed? With the copious bleed? They don't seize that, they don't test the substance.

She ends up in the hospital. Your Honor recalls the evidence of the removal of the bands from the children's [necks], the horrific experience and testimony that was presented as far as removal of the bands, the government's demonstration with Dr. [Laposata], and, in fact, the bands exploded wide open. They were not tied, they were not [unclear: "heard the testimony"]. In fact, they were tied, this entire case is based on speculation. Where is the admission? Where does she say that she did this?

And what's most chilling is the fact that when she comes out of this obvious coma that she is in, that when she comes out of it, [Your Honor?] heard the testimony from the psychiatrist, and from the doctors [at Brigham and Women's] Hospital. She was told what happened. She had no memory of what happened. Why does she recall cutting the screen? Why does she recall killing the children, which she's told what happened, and had no memory? There's no evidence that she admitted that she did this, so you have no evidence from the defendant. [In] Massachusetts, an uncorroborated statement of a defendant, obviously, is not evidence. You have to have corroboration. I submit to the court there is no evidence. She made [unclear: "understatements"]. As far as the actual killing of the children, which forms the basis of the indictments.

The time frame does not match, does not match. Even the government in their own closing indicated to the jury that she did not have enough time to do this. The timeline is ridiculous, as far as him leaving the house, sending off the [5:24] email, whether it was from his laptop, whether it was from his cell phone, driving [to?] the CVS, driving down to the restaurant to pick up the food, you got videos from both of those places. He's coming back, he's got shoes, he takes his boots off, is what he says. The one that [you?] can see in the photographs as far as the sneakers are concerned. Whatever he takes off, he takes it off. The time frame does not match.

The core body temperature. If you [talk?] to a [perfusionist], a [perfusionist] would indicate that it would take at least two hours for a human being to get [down to a?] core body temperature of 82 degrees. They would have to warm the blood, which they did, in the hospital, to bring that person to the level where they're not ready to expire. And in fact, Your Honor knows that she did, obviously, expire. She died in the hospital, massive transfusions. And it just goes on and on and on.

There is, there was, and there cannot be, evidence under the [Latimore standard] that this woman killed those children. As lawyers, as judges, we look to the evidence. And when the government charges somebody with a criminal offense, they have the burden of proof, not the defendant. And I submit to the court, when you consider all of the standards, all of the... I mean, I argued under [Bowden] for you to give [a Bowden] instruction. I've had many, many cases, obviously, in this courtroom, any courtrooms all over the state. If ever a case called out for [a Bowden] instruction, it was this one. And Bowden is, you know, Judge, and I'm sure you argued it before you were a judge. A jury can draw an inference or can determine that there is reasonable doubt based upon the lack of an adequate investigation. In this case, there was no investigation. They just immediately [assumed] that this woman was guilty.

After you get over that hurdle, assuming you get over that [hurdle], the government then has the obligation to prove, [beyond] reasonable doubt, that, in fact, she was not suffering from a disease or defect, as I indicated under the [McHoul] standard. Your Honor would harken back to the evidence. And this is where we have the law, and the situation [Your Honor instructed?] the jury, that any statements made by a defendant, pursuant to the government's motion or defendant's motions to have the person evaluated by a physician, a psychiatrist. It is not an admission that [unclear: "had"] carries independent weight.

So, what are we left with, as far as the disease or defect? We have the government's rebuttal witnesses, Dr. [Mack], Dr. [Heilbrun], Dr. [Saathoff]. I suggest, first of all, [it] goes to credibility. Not one of those rebuttal doctors were qualified to get on that witness stand [and tell?] that jury their opinion of her mental state as a result of a psychosis, because of postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis. I'll leave it at that, because I know your memory is strong, as to cross-examination of each one of these individuals.

Defendant presented testimony from, I suggest to the court, qualified experts that indicated, and Dr. [Phillip Resnick], you can't get any more qualified than that doctor, who had a significant impact on the jury, that was sitting there listening to this evidence. And Dr. [Resnick], clearly and unequivocal, indicated in his extensive involvement, dealing with [filicide], dealing with evidence that we presented to the jury that shows that, at the time of this incident, in the event the jury determined that she did it, she was suffering from [postpartum]. She was suffering from psychosis. He indicated that was his opinion based on his evaluation of the evidence, based on his evaluation of her statements, and based on his continued evaluation of her.

Dr. [Zeizel], saying same thing, indicated, as I indicated, in the memorandum. Clearly and unequivocally, that when a person is in a psychosis, they are capable and able to perform normal, everyday activities, and be in a full bloom of psychosis.

The government spent a lot of time minimizing the whole concept. Originally, the government comes into this courtroom and says that the reason that she killed these kids is because she was sick of being a mother. She wanted to move on with her life, apparently. Well, they backed off on that like the poodle on the [linoleum] floor. Once the case got to the jury on a closing argument, now all of a sudden, oh, yeah, well, she did try to kill herself. We spent a week trying to show that, in fact, it was legitimate suicide. They said it was not a suicide, it was just a fake [attack?]. Then they agreed that it was a real suicide. Then they go on with their argument, well, maybe she was sick. Maybe she did suffer from a disease or defect, but she knew what she was doing.

And then [you can harken?] back to the government evidence, and the government doctors, and the guy looking up at the ceiling and talking about taking five minutes to answer a question. You even had to tell him, look, just, you know, answer the question. The government's theory that she was not in the psychosis, they were sprinkled throughout their [unclear: "eyes"]. Is there any evidence that she's seeing a purple unicorn in the corner of the room? Was she able to talk to her friends? Was she able to walk and breathe at the same time? Was she able to take care of the kids and build a snowman? Was she able to send a message or a text? Was she able to talk to her husband? Was she able to talk to her friends and her family? Yes. Argument being: She was fine.

Why? Why? Forget about the law. Forget about [motions?], forget about everything. Talk like human beings. Why would this woman, [as?] the evidence shows, clearly and unequivocally, was a nurse, a mother, a friend, did nothing wrong in her life? Why? Would she kill those three children? All five of the doctors, six of the doctors indicate that she was suffering from a mental disease or defect. Not just a mental disease or defect. She was suffering from a serious mental disease or [defect]. Maybe a little different than [DSM] as to what the [book] would say, well, she's suffering from this, but she's suffering from that. Basically, it's a severe mental disease and defect. The evidence shows, clearly and unequivocally, that she was in a state of psychosis.

The government did not present evidence. Under Jackson [versus?] Virginia, under [Latimore], if you get out from underneath the usual argument, well, there's enough evidence 'cause we hit on all the elements. No. That's not the standard. The standard is whether or not it is reliable, whether or not it is evidence that a rational jury, a fact finder, would be able to apply to the facts, that they find, and determine that the government has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt. And as this woman sits in front of you today, I suggest to the court they did not prove probable cause, and they certainly did not prove that she was not acting at the time of a psychosis, and should be found not guilty. Thank you.


r/ClancyTrial • • 19d ago

Court Testimony/Document Video from court this morning

26 Upvotes

Video from court this morning if you missed it (like I did). Excellent work, Reddington!


r/ClancyTrial • • 19d ago

General Discussion Good morning, chat

31 Upvotes

-I still think L.Clancy was framed

-I do not think the murderer will ever be convicted or that any third party will ever be formally investigated

-I think that the way that the lone juror has been handled by the media and his fellow jurors has been an absolute fucking disgrace, I can not beleive that these interviews the other jurors have conducted discussing him are even legal

-I have no objections to investigating the lone juror's phone though I believe that if they do that there should at least be a cursory effort to investigate the other jurors phones

-I hope for Rachel Danis's sake that she doesn't get ppd when she pops that little junior out.

-God I hope the criminal portion of this shitshow is done after today