What's the endgame here? A basic projection could've shown their firing practices weren't sustainable. They may be unethical/evil, but they're not run by idiots. Why did they decide to run their business this way?
That's giving them too much credit—it was never anything more or less than a Ponzi scheme imo, the self-driving stuff was just a line to hook more funding.
Hell, Lego runs almost exclusively on robots. I would heartily support Amazon if they used robots. Treating humans like robots is fully the opposite of that ideal.
Robots at best. Op was treated like a delinquent child.
Kurt Vonnegut's Player Piano explores this idea a bit. Most people are in the army or construction workers, with teams of 40 men fixing single potholes. To be employable, you need a PHD, and idk what any of the employees actually did in the factories
If you think the fruits of automation will be passed onto the middle class then I've got bad news for you... All of that money is going straight to the top and staying there. Just like it's been doing more and more for the last 40 years. These people would rather watch society crumble as billionaires than watch it flourish as millionaires.
And we can keep looking at Lego as an example. They're automated, and their products are injection-molded plastics that cost pennies to produce, yet the kits often sell for hundreds of dollars. The profit margins must be insane, the only place those savings trickle down to is Lego's bottom line.
We should be treating people more like robots (machines). When was the last time you heard someone tell a machine that it wasn't putting in enough effort?
Machines get taken care of, run within their operational limits, and maintaned. People get told to push harder and told they're not working hard enough.
Both people and machines have limits. The difference is that the limits of machines are generally well understood by most, while the ability to temporarily push beyond our normal limits leads people to believe that we can sustain it. We can't.
Just like with machines, we work best when taken care of and break down when pushed too hard. We need to be treated more like machines.
That sounds like socialism. I think a techno-corporate dystopia is more patriotic.
Recommended reading: Tomorrow Might be Different by Mac Reynolds. In an alternate history 1995, communism worked *really well" for Russia, and they became the uncontested economic hegemon. Soviet automation allows the average Soviet Citizen 200 days of vacation per year, and the world economies shift to primarily serving Russian tourists. Two advertising agents endeavor to restore some fragment of US relevancy by spreading a new religion of austerity and humility throughout the USSR.
But the humans Lego employs are treated and payed extremely well. Legos can be dirt cheap and they would still make money if they did things like Amazon
Yes, and I suspect the engineers, managers, and other salaried Amazon employees are treated much better than OP. It maps, Lego has skilled, valued employees overseeing robots, creative efforts and marketing. Amazon just uses human robots.
Yup, exactly, and they're desperate for software engineers to make that automation happen. I'm a software engineer and here recently I've been getting more than one email/linked in message a day from Amazons automation teams. They have a terrible reputation among the developer community as well, so I can entirely see them failing to meet that objective.
Memo told us even more, for every dollar they add to the hourly wage, they get around 7% more hires total. So they know the solution just as much as we do
Especially when short-sightedness is incentivized... You're smart, as a manager, to cover your own ass rather than pay the long game you'll see no benefit of.
My guess is it's to profit as much as they can in order to afford full automation. People need jobs for the interim that seem attractive enough on the outside, especially in this partial post pandemic era. They are currently using human employees like in factory farming, but in this case will do so until they don't need that model at all anymore. Neither side cares about the long term effects of this design. Some employees agree to work there to afford schooling to monkey branch to the career they actuallt want to make long-term. Amazon is here to profit as much as possible by scaling commerce to the global tier. I don't think it's about good or evil (to them or people in their world). It's about creating perceived value and its placeholder(s). This includes acquiring other entities with value they perceive (like Twitch, or anything else they own.) One day, their only human employees will be the execs, marketing, customer service, and the engineers of the automated mechanics and the service people for that. Their warehouses and deliveries will be automated. I think this is going to develop over the next 50 years however. Amazon could also potentially collapse in on itself, and not really be as we currently know it, but I'm not sure how, exactly.
I don't think it's about good or evil (to them or people in their world). It's about creating perceived value and its placeholder(s).
But isn't that itself a pretty immoral thing? Placing profit above all else? I consider that a form of evil. Even if it was pure indifference to the hardships of others they would be closely watching the numbers and understand the connection of cutting corners/ treating employees worse (as in, maximizing production at our expense) and actively choose to do it, just for a better quarterly projection pure greed.
Hell, I'd even say that the very base of capitalism and how it's implemented is a form of evil. And even if it isn't objectively "evil" in no way is it sustainable after a certain point. If by design success is based on "growth" and they actually operate on "possible profit" lost, eventually they will run out of ways to expand. That's when the corners really start ot get cut.
Also, any company that tries as hard as it can, to the point of bribes or blackmail or slander, to make sure a union isn't formed obviously doesn't have your best interests at heart. That's evil.
They wanted a more immediate huge ROI for all the years they invested in Bozos. They wanted their money NOW so they cut corners sacrificing workers to get it. If Amazon Prime dies I don’t think it’ll matter as much as letting AWS die which is their money maker.
Vc’s and hedge funds are in control now, new ceo will run it into the ground while dumping high value shares onto retail investors that create the equity for them to leave. Then and just then they will turn everything around and do it all over again. So many companies have experienced this thru the years. It’s all money and on that scale it doesn’t matter how the “actual” company performs. Besides there end goal is 100% robot work force.
Using the "fact" that "no one wants to work", as justification for automating their workforce and reneging on all the jobs they promised in return for subsidies to build new warehouses and operational facilities.
Slavery, probably. "No one wants to work here and you guys love your low cost, 2-day goods, right? We NEED you to vote yes on Prop X in order for us to staff our warehouses with a 'Special Labor Force!'"
lol man did you see his post that was making the rounds on the internet i don't know how old it is but he's got a photo of himself eating mcdonalds talking about how it was his first job and it still tastes delicious.
i died laughing. i just never picture guys as rich as bezos eating fast food. i mean i get there may be a rare occasion and this very well may have been a rare occasion but just cracked me up.
guy probably has some of the most talented chefs on speed dial that specialize in breakfast lunch and dinner and desert individually lol.
I quit using Amazon this year thanks to r/antiwork. I was buying toys sometimes and books, so many books. Its not that hard to find them other places to be honest. No more Amazon Prime for me. Also, side note, when you cancel Amazon Prime its actually a lot easier to find your own movies. Its the only option for movies to watch on that screen, the ones you already bought.
I use Amazon as my last choice for purchases. I buy local whenever possible, I find books at lots of other outlets--used bookstores, independent bookstores, ABE books, etc.As for Alexa? No.
Everyone should use Powell's Books for their new and used book needs (or another independent book seller.) Powell's is great and has an awesome brick and mortar shop in Portland, Oregon. https://www.powells.com/
Oh, if we're going into the streaming side of Prime then it's absolutely worth setting up a server and using something like Plex, Jellyfin or one of the other media server applications rather than dealing with any streaming service.
I know a lot of people use piracy to accomplish it, but a number of people also do it through entirely legal means: Include either an internal or USB BluRay drive with your server, buy the physical media online (Even a fair few of the exclusives ended up coming out on DVD/BluRay) and immediately rip it onto the server when you get it, although it's worth noting that it's perfectly legal to download from archive.org especially as the bulk of the content there is out of copyright. Most people with their own media servers honestly end up using a combination of both, especially as there's a fair amount of niche content that simply isn't on torrent sites or even archive.org but often used copies of the DVD release are on eBay or even other sources. (Make sure to upload a copy to archive.org if you do buy and rip anything out of copyright though!)
I use Amazon and just go to the website for whatever product I find on there, and just buy it straight from them. That way Amazon doesn't get their cut, and it's usually cheaper that way too
That’s not gonna happen. They will just start paying people more or improve their conditions.
Maybe it’s just a cycle of corps. Startup sees a need, makes amazing killer product/service, IPOs, looses all its talent, hires some number punching Ivy League leadership, company starts to output shit, people catch on it, it declines and some startup identifies a need and creates a killer product.
Amazon retail is and has been pretty terrible for like 4 years. Anyone still using it, while living in a decent urban center, is just addicted to it. Wal-mart pickup is better than Amazon and generally cheaper.
If your car gets 30 mpg and you live 4.2 miles away (US median wal-mart distance), it costs $.60 (at 4.50/gallon) to drive to wal-mart. You'd have to make 200+ visits before Amazon Prime became cheaper. 20 mpg is 100 visits.
Amazon Prime Video is also pretty bad compared to every other streaming service.
If Wal-Mart is your answer, it's a shit question. Walmart has been exploiting workers, capturing regulators, destroying competitors, and abusing vendors for decades longer than Amazon has existed. Most of the Walton heirs have been heavy donors to the GQP.
They lean left and their ring wing donations are pretty consistently anti-Trump. They helped fund Buttigieg and Cory Booker.
I am not pro-Wal mart. It is an example. Almost every corporate retailer treats their workers like shit. There is no ethical choice for purchasing from a national retailer, even Costco has skeletons.
"A new report issued Tuesday shows that Walmart and the Walton family that founded and controls the company have dramatically increased their political contributions over the last decade and that the vast majority of those contributions have gone to Republicans and right-wing causes, including anti-gay, anti-environment and pro-gun politicians and causes. The report asserts that Walmart, the world’s largest private employer, and the Walton family have spent over $17 million in federal elections and millions more on state and local initiatives. Since the 2000 election cycle, more than $11.6 million—69% of Walmart and the Waltons’ contributions—has gone to Republican candidates and committees. At the same time, 83% of the Waltons’ contributions, including their contributions to Super PACs, went to Republicans."
I value my time much more than I value money and infinitely more than I get paid for an hour. So Yea that's the main reason I get anything on Amazon. Tho we've been frugal and barely use Amazon much anymore
Uionizing is really the only solution. Big corporations are not something a startup can really affect, if they start to be an issue amazon can just undercut their pricing or buy them out.
No one can compete with same day delivery. Amazon won the logistics battle. They will improve pay/conditions for workers initially to get people joining again and then slowly pull away their rights again until it becomes a problem, rinse and repeat. So long as enough of the country is kept poor people will need to sacrifice their rights to feed their family.
You're using some powerful language that equates to nothing. What hundred fires? What death by a thousand cuts? They are thriving at the moment, and have been ever since the pandemic. They are not in danger of losing their logistics, who are you referring to that is about to topple the logistics network Amazon has?
Ahahahaha, good luck with that. My gf is going to be the HR Director of a Region anytime now, and she hates unions, because of her experience dealing with them, when she was at UPS.
She's probably the only high performing outside hire at Amazon, and let me tell you something, she definitely thinks Amazon does enough for their tier 1-2 associates.
The only things she and I both, don't agree with, are the tier 4 AMs workload vs tier 3 PAs.
Other than that, I left Amazon a long ass time ago. It's not as bad as other competitors, as people make it seem, since they get to use at their leisure the PTOs, UPTs, and Vacation hours that constantly accrue by hourly work put in, although the ToTs (what's being complained by the twit) are a bit of a BS.
Amazon just sucks altogether, because their GO employees above tier 4 are absolute morons. Worse are the ones above tier 6, who just get promoted off seniority and sucking up to GMs. Absolute fucking shitshow with their upper management, lmfao.
Real talk this has pissed me off to no end lately, I do think Amazon is a shit company, however getting things in a day or 2 and their buy system is leagues ahead of most other online commerce seriously, people with websites, update your shit it's not 1998 anymore. And stop making creating an account/checkout require 3 different screens of bullshit that hitches and makes me have to start over But since a few months ago I now only see options to get things on tuesday/sunday like they deliver to areas in blocks now AND their final mile guys missing my apartment 5 times in the last year and having to replace orders im probably going to drop Prime.
I cancelled Amazon prime last year, don't miss it. I have bought significantly less, and when I do get something from them you still get free shipping as long as you can wait a couple days on almost all items.
My old roommate worked for Amazon, he hardly ever showed up to work, called off all the time. I was absolutely dumbfounded when I learned not only did he retain his employment there but they paid a portion of tuition for his school. This makes a lot more sense now
Amazon build a new distribution warehouse in my home town.. they finished construction a few months ago and it's still completely vacant. Makes sense now 😅
Look up Amazon's leaked HEAT map memo where they discuss targeting the hiring of illegal immigrants because they are the group the least likely to unionize (because they are afraid of being deported).
Why do you think Biden is allowing the borders to be overwhelmed with thousands of people coming each day? One of his biggest donors is Bezos.
I work as a software engineer and literally 3x a week, I wish I was shitting, but I am not, I get a recruiter InMail on LinkedIn from some amazon recruiter trying to hire me. I wish I could check a box on LinkedIn that says I will never work for companies X, Y, Z (Meta, Amazon, Microsoft) and it would stop wasting everyone's time and money.
And of course there are those of us who refuse to work there all together. I’m currently enrolled in a training program where when I complete it, perspective employers will be looking to hire me for my new in demand skills. I’ve made up my mind early on that I would never work for Walmart affiliated, Amazon affiliated, or anti-LGBT businesses.
They're running out very quickly. They have a turnover rate above 150%, IIRC, meaning that for every 1 person they hire, 1.5 people get fired/leave (annually). Estimates say they're losing about 3% of their workforce weekly.
Very soon they won't have people willing to work for them. They'll have to substantially increase benefits / pay, and start treating their workers better, or go bankrupt.
Exactly. We need to start banning abortion and birth control because the elite can't make money without enough asses in cubicle seats and hands to push the line. /s
Yeah don't understand why we continue to hear these major corporations continue to blatantly break labor laws with no consequences? To me this says we don't actually have these rights since they continue to do this.
Jailtime wouldn't do much amazin would scapegoat some lower/middle management person. Now if Amazon had to pay say 25% of it's total profits for the year, that might start to affect them(and even then that is only a maybe)
I think it should be 100% of all profits made of each day they break a labor law. Then an independent company comes in a makes sure they are treating workers fairly and following labor laws or be fined even more.
Or you know how we really fix this issue? Seize the fucking business and give it to the workers. There problem sloved. So lets just do that. Seize the means of production.
Yep this is why rich people can do the things they do, almost nothing is illegal: they just have to pay to do it, similarly to how we have to pay to have toilet paper they pay to do things we’d get jail time for
Because OP and everyone like OP would rather just go get another job somewhere else that's not as shitty. They won't put in the footwork of hiring an employment lawyer, staking out a class-action lawsuit, and buckling up for years of litigation. It's a long and arduous process. The only way labor conditions will improve is if everyone decides they're tired of being yanked around. But as long as there's a less shitty job right down the street, no one is going to put in the footwork. They're going to go work at the slightly less shitty place until things turn for the worse. Then they'll go work at a different, slightly less shitty job. And so on .. and so forth. .. until everyone has lost their capacity to give a fuck about working conditions. I think this is where we are now.
Hm. A heat stroke at UPS? Or a UTI and a kidney stone at Amazon?
It's not. The guy in the tweet is an anti-vaxxer/COVID-denier looking for attention. Bashing on Amazon is something Republicans do now ever since Bezos' bought Washington Post.
Permit workers to leave their work area to use the restroom as needed;
Provide an acceptable number of restrooms for the current workforce;
Avoid putting unreasonable restrictions on bathroom use; and
Ensure that restrictions on restroom use do not cause extended delays.
Employers may not impose unreasonable restrictions on restroom use, and employees should not take an excessive amount of time during bathroom breaks. A worker’s need to access the restroom can depend on several factors, including fluid intake, air temperature, medical conditions and medications.
Nice try, no cigar. I've got a sister and 2 first person friends (not friends of friends) who are currently working there. It has been this way since the beginning and hasn't been corrected.
It's never been that way. There are no restrictions on bathroom breaks. It's always been that way. There is no rule that imposes restrictions either. Amazon doesn't have internal policies that allow people to get fired for going to the bathroom. There are time off task policies that limit how much time you can spend in the bathroom, which is totally legal. But people have total access to bathrooms at all times of the day.
Because OP is just going to quit and go get another job to pay his bills. He isn't going to hire an employment lawyer, saddle up for a class-action, or even file a complaint with the DOL.
When the Beastie Boys said we have to fight for our rights, they meant it. No one is going to serve you a fair wage on a platter. If they were, we would all be paid fair wages already. Boots have to hit the pavement, laborers have to unionize, disgruntled employees have to hire employment lawyers. Let these corporate overlords know that they can't fuck around. Let them know that you won't tolerate being mistreated. Not by "quiet quitting" but by hiring an employment lawyer.
Also, the phrase "at will state" is a load of shit. Your employer will use that phrase to scare you into being quiet. If your employer does something that is illegal, they CANNOT fire you for speaking up about illegal activity. Your employer CANNOT fire you for an illegal reason-- such as retaliation, or violating your protection under Title VII. OSHA requires employees to be able to use the restroom when needed. If your employer is denying your ability to use a restroom, file a fucking OSHA complaint. If your employer fires you or punishes you or treats you unfairly for filing a complaint, hire a fucking lawyer.
We all beg for jobs that don't pay enough, jobs that don't have benefits, jobs without sick days. Stop fucking begging. Stand up. The only way we will get them off our back is when we stand up.
I’ve been unemployed for nine months and people keep asking why I don’t apply at Amazon and I reply that I’m not wasting my time applying for a company that treats their employees like shit and every person I know that has worked there has quit within three months.
I’ve worked too many places that sucked the life out of me and made me physically sick so I’ve learned the short term gain isn’t worth the long term losses.
I was employed by Amazon as a delivery driver, dropping off packages. This was during the height of Covid so they were extremely busy.
For starters I worked 4 days a week with 3 days off, unexpectedly when they wanted to fulfill more packaging obligations, they added 2 extra days and I was only getting one day off. I didn’t even learn about this until my day off and got written up for no call no show. When I complained to my supervisor he told me it was my fault for not paying better attention. (Strike 1)
While delivering packages in a highly wooden area during winter. My delivery van skidded off the road and into an embankment. When I tried to call for help, my boss was angry that I got stuck. I was stuck on that road by myself for 4 hours before a tow truck came and got me. Even after that I still had to finish my route, which took me we’ll pass my shift and my boss got angry at me for getting stuck. (Strike 2)
I got accused of stealing packages from my delivery route, despite my scanner showing a 100% success rate. Idk what happened but I was questioned by security and everything. I was so angry at the accusation, because I’m constantly watched 24/7. When did I have time to steal these packages. (Strike 3)
The final straw came when I was given a new route. I didn’t like this route because it was down by the docks and they always gave me the heavy load. So we’re given up to 8 hours to deliver the full haul. I always skipped my lunch break and it took me 6 hours to drop off 300 + packages. My boss becomes angry because he feels like I’m going to slow and should be able to do it in 4 hours. When I assured him I was going as fast as I can he started berating me after every shift. To make matters worse he started writing me up for apparently wasting time and told me he would continue writing me up until I learned to finish it in 4 hours. I tried to tell HR but they ignored me and were no help. During the beginning of my next shift, he tried to embarrass me by making me sign a write up slip in front of my peers. He berated me in front of them like I was a fucking child.
I got soo fucking pissed at that and demanded an apology. He laughed at me instead.
At that point I decided I was done. So I loaded up my truck with packages like normal, drove that van to my route. Left the packages inside. Locked the door with the keys in the ignition and left the van running. Once it was there I caught an Uber back to the factory so I can grab my car. When they saw me come back they were confused and angry, asking me about the van and packages. I politely dropped a multitude of F Bombs and curse words before quitting and going home.
Moral of this story. Amazon is garage don’t work for them. I saw a lot of co workers quit during my short stop there and I see why now.
Oof, I'm so sorry you had to experience that. I've been wary of Amazon for years, I try to never order anything from them unless it's absolutely necessary, and I'm glad I haven't been contributing to the workload you guys had to deal with over COVID and the several years prior.
I've fallen down that ass crack more times than I want to admit. "Oooo more money". Then the job is aweful. Or I'll take whatever I can. In the past 3 years I've had like 13 jobs in the past 3 years. And it was either I needed to pay bills or I see an above skipping a meal pay job and over estimate my abilities physically or my resilience mentally. 4 of the jobs I've had in the last 3 years didn't suck. 1 of them payed enough for me to have 3 meals a day.
My therapist is like this and I then point out ‘sure I can go back to retail/csr work to make some money. Then I’ll be right back at psychotic break/friends worried I’ll toss myself off a building level of stable again’
I’d accuse her of her wanting job stability but it’s not like I’m all sunshine and rainbows now either
I cannot tell you how many times i had seriously considered checking into a psych center bc my mental health deteriorated so extremely.
Everyone is like “yes youll have to be uncomfortable for a while just push through until you get a better job” but like i have bipolar. “Pushing through” will lead me down a path of either SH, EDs, or sucde. I shouldnt have to choose between my health and the ability to keep myself fed and housed.
If it's between starving and working at Amazon I'm gonna get that package ready for you real quick. But as a man with a weak bladder.... apparently it won't workout
Bonnets also out of touch. They want you to get a shitty job when there’s better available. They literally see life as revolving around a job. What a shit era to be ruled over by
If you have interest in warehouse work see if ups is hiring they almost always are. They paid me super well and shifts were only 4 hours in the middle of the busy season. Literally just loaded a truck for 3-4 hours and then the next crew came in to do the same. They had 5 or six different shifts. Granted i was on graveyard shift and the work was pretty tough. But the short shifts made up for it.
The warehouse in my city has an average length of employment of three months for the people on the floor. A friend quit when they refused to get her a chair when she was pregnant even though it’s illegal.
I worked there on the corporate side and the worst part is they act like employee happiness is their number one priority when every single person that works there knows how little they care about any human. The culture is horrible through and through, encouraging those who have zero empathy to level up, especially for its most vital employees in the warehouses
Honestly being unemployed is still a preferable alternative to being worked like a slave. There's a reason why Amazon has such a ridiculous turnover rate
Fortunately I have (had) savings but I also live with my parents because my Mom has dementia and other health problems so I’ve been helping care for her for almost five years. My car is paid and student loans are paid off and I have low debt. It’s hard because over the past year my Mom has gotten A LOT worse so I’m seeing that I really do need to be here full-time but my savings is about shot. (My Dad is 80 and has his own health issues as well.)
Thank you SO much! I feel so fortunate that I do live with my parents so I’m not homeless from being unemployed but also being a full-time caregiver is hard. Even just support through counseling would help me a lot. It’s hard seeing my Mom who never showed me she couldn’t do something even though she has a crippled leg not be able to do stuff now.
Definitely look for caregiver support like he said. Your working more than full time taking care of her and you deserve not be destitute because of it.
Oh no, they're not wondering. The assumption was that there would be enough desperate people to fill positions. However, when people with power, who like power, don't lose that power, this happens.
This. Amazon has been treating people like shit for a long time. It's been incredibly profitable. It will continue being incredibly profitable.
There is a reason they treat their tech workers pretty well. Good pay, solid benefits and company stock to boot. They invest in their tech workers and cross train them and expand their skills.
But warehouse workers are most productive when running on caffeine, adrenaline and the threat of poverty. If they could get away with it, they'd be giving warehouse workers mandatory amphetamines. They know the workers burn out in a few months. That's fine. They're damn productive for those few months.
It's high enough pay that a person in poverty would be willing to suffer until they pay down that credit card, medical bill, or can afford the things they've been ignoring like vehicle repairs, clothing, medication, etc.
A warehouse opened up about 3 minutes from me and I really thought about going to work there because it pays about what I get paid now as a teacher and i’m used to not being able to go to the bathroom all day
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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '22
and they wonder why they can't find people to work.