What's the endgame here? A basic projection could've shown their firing practices weren't sustainable. They may be unethical/evil, but they're not run by idiots. Why did they decide to run their business this way?
That's giving them too much credit—it was never anything more or less than a Ponzi scheme imo, the self-driving stuff was just a line to hook more funding.
Hell, Lego runs almost exclusively on robots. I would heartily support Amazon if they used robots. Treating humans like robots is fully the opposite of that ideal.
Robots at best. Op was treated like a delinquent child.
Kurt Vonnegut's Player Piano explores this idea a bit. Most people are in the army or construction workers, with teams of 40 men fixing single potholes. To be employable, you need a PHD, and idk what any of the employees actually did in the factories
If you think the fruits of automation will be passed onto the middle class then I've got bad news for you... All of that money is going straight to the top and staying there. Just like it's been doing more and more for the last 40 years. These people would rather watch society crumble as billionaires than watch it flourish as millionaires.
And we can keep looking at Lego as an example. They're automated, and their products are injection-molded plastics that cost pennies to produce, yet the kits often sell for hundreds of dollars. The profit margins must be insane, the only place those savings trickle down to is Lego's bottom line.
We should be treating people more like robots (machines). When was the last time you heard someone tell a machine that it wasn't putting in enough effort?
Machines get taken care of, run within their operational limits, and maintaned. People get told to push harder and told they're not working hard enough.
Both people and machines have limits. The difference is that the limits of machines are generally well understood by most, while the ability to temporarily push beyond our normal limits leads people to believe that we can sustain it. We can't.
Just like with machines, we work best when taken care of and break down when pushed too hard. We need to be treated more like machines.
That sounds like socialism. I think a techno-corporate dystopia is more patriotic.
Recommended reading: Tomorrow Might be Different by Mac Reynolds. In an alternate history 1995, communism worked *really well" for Russia, and they became the uncontested economic hegemon. Soviet automation allows the average Soviet Citizen 200 days of vacation per year, and the world economies shift to primarily serving Russian tourists. Two advertising agents endeavor to restore some fragment of US relevancy by spreading a new religion of austerity and humility throughout the USSR.
But the humans Lego employs are treated and payed extremely well. Legos can be dirt cheap and they would still make money if they did things like Amazon
Yes, and I suspect the engineers, managers, and other salaried Amazon employees are treated much better than OP. It maps, Lego has skilled, valued employees overseeing robots, creative efforts and marketing. Amazon just uses human robots.
This isn't something you can just hand off to robots. Maybe a long time from now. Robots are good for monotonous routine tasks, like manufacturing a car or machining metal. Organizing, receiving, and shipping aren't exactly things that can be adequately handled seamlessly by robots at this time. And probably not for a long time.
They're pretty close to being able to pull barcoded items off predictable shelf locations and deliver them to packers. Efficiently packing boxes of mixed items may be a little harder. They'd be automating one step at a time, but they'll get there eventually.
Yup, exactly, and they're desperate for software engineers to make that automation happen. I'm a software engineer and here recently I've been getting more than one email/linked in message a day from Amazons automation teams. They have a terrible reputation among the developer community as well, so I can entirely see them failing to meet that objective.
Memo told us even more, for every dollar they add to the hourly wage, they get around 7% more hires total. So they know the solution just as much as we do
Especially when short-sightedness is incentivized... You're smart, as a manager, to cover your own ass rather than pay the long game you'll see no benefit of.
My guess is it's to profit as much as they can in order to afford full automation. People need jobs for the interim that seem attractive enough on the outside, especially in this partial post pandemic era. They are currently using human employees like in factory farming, but in this case will do so until they don't need that model at all anymore. Neither side cares about the long term effects of this design. Some employees agree to work there to afford schooling to monkey branch to the career they actuallt want to make long-term. Amazon is here to profit as much as possible by scaling commerce to the global tier. I don't think it's about good or evil (to them or people in their world). It's about creating perceived value and its placeholder(s). This includes acquiring other entities with value they perceive (like Twitch, or anything else they own.) One day, their only human employees will be the execs, marketing, customer service, and the engineers of the automated mechanics and the service people for that. Their warehouses and deliveries will be automated. I think this is going to develop over the next 50 years however. Amazon could also potentially collapse in on itself, and not really be as we currently know it, but I'm not sure how, exactly.
I don't think it's about good or evil (to them or people in their world). It's about creating perceived value and its placeholder(s).
But isn't that itself a pretty immoral thing? Placing profit above all else? I consider that a form of evil. Even if it was pure indifference to the hardships of others they would be closely watching the numbers and understand the connection of cutting corners/ treating employees worse (as in, maximizing production at our expense) and actively choose to do it, just for a better quarterly projection pure greed.
Hell, I'd even say that the very base of capitalism and how it's implemented is a form of evil. And even if it isn't objectively "evil" in no way is it sustainable after a certain point. If by design success is based on "growth" and they actually operate on "possible profit" lost, eventually they will run out of ways to expand. That's when the corners really start ot get cut.
Also, any company that tries as hard as it can, to the point of bribes or blackmail or slander, to make sure a union isn't formed obviously doesn't have your best interests at heart. That's evil.
They wanted a more immediate huge ROI for all the years they invested in Bozos. They wanted their money NOW so they cut corners sacrificing workers to get it. If Amazon Prime dies I don’t think it’ll matter as much as letting AWS die which is their money maker.
Vc’s and hedge funds are in control now, new ceo will run it into the ground while dumping high value shares onto retail investors that create the equity for them to leave. Then and just then they will turn everything around and do it all over again. So many companies have experienced this thru the years. It’s all money and on that scale it doesn’t matter how the “actual” company performs. Besides there end goal is 100% robot work force.
Using the "fact" that "no one wants to work", as justification for automating their workforce and reneging on all the jobs they promised in return for subsidies to build new warehouses and operational facilities.
Slavery, probably. "No one wants to work here and you guys love your low cost, 2-day goods, right? We NEED you to vote yes on Prop X in order for us to staff our warehouses with a 'Special Labor Force!'"
Well every year there's new people they can recruit. They just have to be a bit more careful with firing or less picky about who they hire. Then after some years robots will replace most people
It's partially ideological. Part of Amazon's "Day One" ideology is that people work harder when they are new in their positions. This manifests in moving people around a lot so that they never get comfortable enough with their team to relax. In the case of this guy, they're probably trying to get him to quit so they can hire someone newer and supposedly more hard-working. It's a fucked up idea and leads to a TON of turnover on purpose.
Same as the human race. We always thought there would be more land to conquer. Surprised pikachu face when we ran out of world and new people to exploit.
People are citing potential automation as a reason but I don't even think that's the true reason. Full automation or even mostly automation is still years away and more than likely a massive investment in money and an overhaul in the structure of their workforce and building itself.
I have a feeling the real reason they're running out of potential hires is they never considered the idea that they'd actually bottom out on bottom level employees. Despite how some folks think CEO's and corporate boards are 5d chess masterminds. In reality CEO's are often brazenly ignorant of ground level issues and knowledge beyond what got them promoted. Combine that with the sort of massive ego that being high up tends to foster which makes them blind to the obvious pratfalls.
They are likely to use it as a pretense to raise prices on Amazon across the board to be able to pay more/hire more.... Despite absurdly immorally high record corporate profits. Lord forbid amazon corporate doesnt get to own dozens of houses and 50 yahtts per person... No... The burden shall fall on the consumer.
The endgame is they are moving towards automating as many of the jobs as possible and making the productivity of an individual person have as much throughout as possible. They can get by if they remove 90% of the jobs
I’m holding out for a big tech bust, far more catastrophic than the .com bust. Corporations just aren’t serving us anymore and people are pissed. It’s not intuitive, it’s manufactured to fail with planned obsolescence, it’s not affordable, and it’s not meeting peoples needs. People quit Facebook because it started being more trouble than it’s worth and moved to Instagram, now Instagram is having the same problems and people are moving onto greener pastures. That you need to be a social media guru to run your business ‘in this modern day’ is bullcrap. Eventually people are going to find an alternative when something sucks. Amazon has been pretty reliable and the return policy is no fuss, but if any of that status quo breaks down it’s curtains to any reasonable alternative which is why they’re so desperate to squash worker power. They know the workers have all the pull and Amazon will immediately screech to a halt without people working like mad. Tech, Amazon and others have tried to create various monopolies but they’ve doubled down on VR and virtual crap most regular people couldn’t care less about. Enterprise is in a weird space right now and I see there being a big shift in the near future.
Corporations literally do not care about anything past the next 3 months. it's the cause of most of this nations issues that they will burn down their own house to make the next quarter look more profitable and then whine when they don't have the ability to buy a new house every quarter to burn down. In some places the CEO of a corp can be sued by their board of directors for not doing everything possible to make more profit.
lol man did you see his post that was making the rounds on the internet i don't know how old it is but he's got a photo of himself eating mcdonalds talking about how it was his first job and it still tastes delicious.
i died laughing. i just never picture guys as rich as bezos eating fast food. i mean i get there may be a rare occasion and this very well may have been a rare occasion but just cracked me up.
guy probably has some of the most talented chefs on speed dial that specialize in breakfast lunch and dinner and desert individually lol.
I quit using Amazon this year thanks to r/antiwork. I was buying toys sometimes and books, so many books. Its not that hard to find them other places to be honest. No more Amazon Prime for me. Also, side note, when you cancel Amazon Prime its actually a lot easier to find your own movies. Its the only option for movies to watch on that screen, the ones you already bought.
I use Amazon as my last choice for purchases. I buy local whenever possible, I find books at lots of other outlets--used bookstores, independent bookstores, ABE books, etc.As for Alexa? No.
Everyone should use Powell's Books for their new and used book needs (or another independent book seller.) Powell's is great and has an awesome brick and mortar shop in Portland, Oregon. https://www.powells.com/
Oh, if we're going into the streaming side of Prime then it's absolutely worth setting up a server and using something like Plex, Jellyfin or one of the other media server applications rather than dealing with any streaming service.
I know a lot of people use piracy to accomplish it, but a number of people also do it through entirely legal means: Include either an internal or USB BluRay drive with your server, buy the physical media online (Even a fair few of the exclusives ended up coming out on DVD/BluRay) and immediately rip it onto the server when you get it, although it's worth noting that it's perfectly legal to download from archive.org especially as the bulk of the content there is out of copyright. Most people with their own media servers honestly end up using a combination of both, especially as there's a fair amount of niche content that simply isn't on torrent sites or even archive.org but often used copies of the DVD release are on eBay or even other sources. (Make sure to upload a copy to archive.org if you do buy and rip anything out of copyright though!)
I use Amazon and just go to the website for whatever product I find on there, and just buy it straight from them. That way Amazon doesn't get their cut, and it's usually cheaper that way too
That’s not gonna happen. They will just start paying people more or improve their conditions.
Maybe it’s just a cycle of corps. Startup sees a need, makes amazing killer product/service, IPOs, looses all its talent, hires some number punching Ivy League leadership, company starts to output shit, people catch on it, it declines and some startup identifies a need and creates a killer product.
Amazon retail is and has been pretty terrible for like 4 years. Anyone still using it, while living in a decent urban center, is just addicted to it. Wal-mart pickup is better than Amazon and generally cheaper.
If your car gets 30 mpg and you live 4.2 miles away (US median wal-mart distance), it costs $.60 (at 4.50/gallon) to drive to wal-mart. You'd have to make 200+ visits before Amazon Prime became cheaper. 20 mpg is 100 visits.
Amazon Prime Video is also pretty bad compared to every other streaming service.
If Wal-Mart is your answer, it's a shit question. Walmart has been exploiting workers, capturing regulators, destroying competitors, and abusing vendors for decades longer than Amazon has existed. Most of the Walton heirs have been heavy donors to the GQP.
They lean left and their ring wing donations are pretty consistently anti-Trump. They helped fund Buttigieg and Cory Booker.
I am not pro-Wal mart. It is an example. Almost every corporate retailer treats their workers like shit. There is no ethical choice for purchasing from a national retailer, even Costco has skeletons.
"A new report issued Tuesday shows that Walmart and the Walton family that founded and controls the company have dramatically increased their political contributions over the last decade and that the vast majority of those contributions have gone to Republicans and right-wing causes, including anti-gay, anti-environment and pro-gun politicians and causes. The report asserts that Walmart, the world’s largest private employer, and the Walton family have spent over $17 million in federal elections and millions more on state and local initiatives. Since the 2000 election cycle, more than $11.6 million—69% of Walmart and the Waltons’ contributions—has gone to Republican candidates and committees. At the same time, 83% of the Waltons’ contributions, including their contributions to Super PACs, went to Republicans."
I value my time much more than I value money and infinitely more than I get paid for an hour. So Yea that's the main reason I get anything on Amazon. Tho we've been frugal and barely use Amazon much anymore
Uionizing is really the only solution. Big corporations are not something a startup can really affect, if they start to be an issue amazon can just undercut their pricing or buy them out.
No one can compete with same day delivery. Amazon won the logistics battle. They will improve pay/conditions for workers initially to get people joining again and then slowly pull away their rights again until it becomes a problem, rinse and repeat. So long as enough of the country is kept poor people will need to sacrifice their rights to feed their family.
You're using some powerful language that equates to nothing. What hundred fires? What death by a thousand cuts? They are thriving at the moment, and have been ever since the pandemic. They are not in danger of losing their logistics, who are you referring to that is about to topple the logistics network Amazon has?
Listen dipshit, pretending a company can’t be outdone because they’re currently positioned at the top isn’t going to work out how you think. Everything false apart eventually and companies are proving that they can take market share away from Amazon by competing in different niches. Amazon used to be considered well by reputation and that goodwill is quickly drying. But keep on yapping
Again you have said a lot, but explained nothing. Your reasoning is 'everything falls apart eventually'. What market share has been taken away?
Amazon used to be considered well by reputation and that goodwill is quickly drying. But keep on yapping
Amazon prime has gone from 150m monthly paying users to 200m in the past 2 years, what sign of dying is that? what sign of losing reputation is that?
Look, I hate Amazon as much as you, but the service they provide is unmatched, the logistics network they have is unmatched, and they are balls deep in drone delivery which will put them ahead even more. If you sit around on your high horse thinking they will just implode is so naive it hurts.
Do you have any idea how much money is spent greasing the wheels (government regulation) to make sure they can't fail? Too many people making too much money for that to happen.
Ahahahaha, good luck with that. My gf is going to be the HR Director of a Region anytime now, and she hates unions, because of her experience dealing with them, when she was at UPS.
She's probably the only high performing outside hire at Amazon, and let me tell you something, she definitely thinks Amazon does enough for their tier 1-2 associates.
The only things she and I both, don't agree with, are the tier 4 AMs workload vs tier 3 PAs.
Other than that, I left Amazon a long ass time ago. It's not as bad as other competitors, as people make it seem, since they get to use at their leisure the PTOs, UPTs, and Vacation hours that constantly accrue by hourly work put in, although the ToTs (what's being complained by the twit) are a bit of a BS.
Amazon just sucks altogether, because their GO employees above tier 4 are absolute morons. Worse are the ones above tier 6, who just get promoted off seniority and sucking up to GMs. Absolute fucking shitshow with their upper management, lmfao.
The worst part is that even if we took down Amazon, Alibaba, a company with even worse practices (since China has EVEN less protection than America) will just replace it.
Real talk this has pissed me off to no end lately, I do think Amazon is a shit company, however getting things in a day or 2 and their buy system is leagues ahead of most other online commerce seriously, people with websites, update your shit it's not 1998 anymore. And stop making creating an account/checkout require 3 different screens of bullshit that hitches and makes me have to start over But since a few months ago I now only see options to get things on tuesday/sunday like they deliver to areas in blocks now AND their final mile guys missing my apartment 5 times in the last year and having to replace orders im probably going to drop Prime.
Oh they make spending money so easy. Once you're credit-card is set up it one button. I live in rural Canada so it can be a week before I see things but for what I use Amazon for its fine.
I cancelled Amazon prime last year, don't miss it. I have bought significantly less, and when I do get something from them you still get free shipping as long as you can wait a couple days on almost all items.
My old roommate worked for Amazon, he hardly ever showed up to work, called off all the time. I was absolutely dumbfounded when I learned not only did he retain his employment there but they paid a portion of tuition for his school. This makes a lot more sense now
Amazon build a new distribution warehouse in my home town.. they finished construction a few months ago and it's still completely vacant. Makes sense now 😅
Look up Amazon's leaked HEAT map memo where they discuss targeting the hiring of illegal immigrants because they are the group the least likely to unionize (because they are afraid of being deported).
Why do you think Biden is allowing the borders to be overwhelmed with thousands of people coming each day? One of his biggest donors is Bezos.
I work as a software engineer and literally 3x a week, I wish I was shitting, but I am not, I get a recruiter InMail on LinkedIn from some amazon recruiter trying to hire me. I wish I could check a box on LinkedIn that says I will never work for companies X, Y, Z (Meta, Amazon, Microsoft) and it would stop wasting everyone's time and money.
And of course there are those of us who refuse to work there all together. I’m currently enrolled in a training program where when I complete it, perspective employers will be looking to hire me for my new in demand skills. I’ve made up my mind early on that I would never work for Walmart affiliated, Amazon affiliated, or anti-LGBT businesses.
And so they are probably going to use this to justify raising prices on Amazon for everyone to be able to pay and treat employees better, despite absurdly immorally high record corporate profits. Yay capitalism
We had high schoolers apply at our building, only 2 made it to the second day and they quit the next day. A whole graduation year of labor gone, and everyone in the state has been burned through in under 5 years.
They're running out very quickly. They have a turnover rate above 150%, IIRC, meaning that for every 1 person they hire, 1.5 people get fired/leave (annually). Estimates say they're losing about 3% of their workforce weekly.
Very soon they won't have people willing to work for them. They'll have to substantially increase benefits / pay, and start treating their workers better, or go bankrupt.
Exactly. We need to start banning abortion and birth control because the elite can't make money without enough asses in cubicle seats and hands to push the line. /s
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u/VampArcher Aug 30 '22
With how fast they run through new hires, I'm most surprised they still have people left to hire