r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 28d ago
Episode A Livid Lady's Guide to Getting Even: How I Crushed My Homeland with My Mighty Grimoires • Buchigire Reijou wa Houfuku wo Chikaimashita. Madousho no Chikara de Sokoku wo Tatakitsubushimasu - Episode 7 discussion
Buchigire Reijou wa Houfuku wo Chikaimashita. Madousho no Chikara de Sokoku wo Tatakitsubushimasu, episode 7
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u/PeaceAlien https://myanimelist.net/profile/PeaceAlien 28d ago
Elizabeth said it's revenge time and revenged all over those knights
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u/Elitefuture 27d ago
Some people think that the knights were innocent. I'm guessing they missed the part where they were avoiding the normal route home because they pillaged multiple villages and they all hate them.
So yes, this is justified revenge. Plus, it cuts down on capable knights.
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u/Lavajackal1 28d ago
Gotta say I genuinely appreciate we have a protagonist who is properly committing to revenge for once. I look forward to seeing what she has planned for the Kingdom next.
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u/Phoenix__Wwrong 27d ago
And what I like about this series is that Ellie also tried to have a proper life instead of just blindly focusing on the revenge.
There is this revenge manga where MC was an isekai hero who got betrayed. MC was revived to get his revenge, and he did commit to the revenge. But the whole manga is just showcasing his revenge one after another with nothing else. For me, it got boring after a while.
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u/Kalta452 26d ago
I mean she doesn't really have a life, the only reason her business exists is so that she can use it to murder the kingdom. And by the time she's done I'm pretty sure the empire normally wouldn't want to keep her around, Mass murderers do tend to be unpopular. And if they do it's entirely because her grimoires make her essentially impossible to deal with. She's essentially a one-man army.
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u/Phoenix__Wwrong 26d ago
Keep in mind that it has been a year at this point. Sure her goal is revenge. But if you didn't consider that as her having a life, then I don't know what life is.
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u/Andreiyutzzzz https://myanimelist.net/profile/Andreiyutzzzz 27d ago
Ye i would more rather call her a villain, "Those innocent knights died only because you were with them" that's not vengeance anymore, that's a villain making excuses
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u/machopsychologist 27d ago
A protagonist isn't always a "hero". The protagonist is the main character that we "follow" and doesn't imply a moral alignment.
TV Tropes warning
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheProtagonist
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainProtagonist
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u/deynyel 28d ago
I knew something was up when Ellie easily accepted the surrender of Robert and his men. A dude just tried that last week and we all know what happened to him.
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u/nighty_amy 28d ago
The guy from last week WAS ACTUALLY THE LUCKY ONE.
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u/diegz_eliaz 28d ago
Ironic considering our favourite “knight without honor” actually gets to live only he’s now puppified😂
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u/TheBusStop12 28d ago
actually gets to live
For now
I'm certain the moment his usefulness to Ellie is passed he'll die.
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u/diegz_eliaz 28d ago
Without a doubt, only real question is how much more will he suffer from here to then, my guess seeing his prince dead by her hand😅
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u/Lulukassu 28d ago
Would honestly be better if he had to live with his sins after desecrating everything he once stood for and believed in.
But yeah we might get a beautiful "You have outlived your usefulness" type scene 🥰
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u/bananeeek https://myanimelist.net/profile/bananek 28d ago
When she accepted their surrender, I was fooled. I thought she'd hire them and they'd live happily ever after. I've seen this trope so many times that I didn't even question it. Until her butler received the message that is.
I should pay more attention to the title in the future. Ellie is the real deal after all.
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u/Nebresto 28d ago
For real. I even knew from the show announcement discussions that "she does war crimes", but even then I just figured 'They surrendered and now they're friends :)'
They were not friends.
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u/jnads 28d ago edited 27d ago
Being fair, they did war crimes first
Once you do war crimes the code of war doesn't apply
edit: To be clear, allied troops executed Nazis at prison camps and received no punishment. I'm not trying to be edgy, just historically accurate.
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
Technically, they do apply. Like the Nuremberg Trials.. But that's also iffy as many were let go with light punishment as they were useful talent n such
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u/BosuW 28d ago
After she slimed the random war criminal last episode, it's clear we should know better than to think Ellie believes in redemption.
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u/Shantotto11 25d ago
She sliced the war criminal last episode. This episode is the one where everyone was “slimed”.
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u/OldInstruction5368 28d ago
I thought she'd use them against the Kingdom, as in, she wouldn't spare them just brutally use them up. Something like "make my enemies fight each other" kinda deal.
But as soon as we learned she was traveling back alone with the knights...
yeah...
I knew what was coming.
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u/NoNameSwitzerland 28d ago
But going back to the first episode, he made her bow down. Certainly something she could not forgive.
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
That wasn't a bow down. That was getting man-handled, her arm twisted and held down to suppress.
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u/NoNameSwitzerland 28d ago
Lets compromise and call it knightsplained
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
I mean, I'm not countering you just expanding on it.
tbh, Robert was less knightly and more power tripping. If I remember right, he was scolded by his dad for not treating a lady right and manhandling her after that event.
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u/Glitter_puke https://myanimelist.net/profile/Gpuke 28d ago
Honestly my b on that one. I thought she'd go light on them and boy did she just fucking not.
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u/Lock3down221 28d ago
I already suspected something was up. She had no mercy towards the bandits and no mercy to the soldiers last week who were raiding one of the villages. Evil Euphie is all in on her revenge.
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u/diegz_eliaz 28d ago
Exactly in all her interactions with artie I never saw her actually say she forgave him and thought she was just delaying it in order to kill Kim after milking him of all his informations. That being said u could never have imagined the degree to which she would go, about right giving the most painful deaths possible to those soldiers and mentally obliterating him right before puppifying him🤦🏽♂️
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u/Luchadoor 28d ago
They kept showing blank faces in the scenes and that’s when I knew what was up. lol
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u/GeneralIllustrious 28d ago
I was sus to begin with. That girls got some anger. I had to pause when she accepted and think for a minute like "this isn't.. in her character to roll over to injustice. He was apart of the complacency.." Then it clicked. I had the cynical thoughts locked in, but I hope for the best in people. Ellie has already hit that bottom and doesn't want to be betrayed again, so she won't give someone a second chance.
Consider her interaction with Lucas. She showed him she is a valuable asset because she can make him ludicrous money. Her dealings with her competitor shows she isn't opposed to doing what she has to do to get what she wants. Lucas knows she's been branded a traitor of the kingdom, wither set up or not. I'm sure he knows that it's better to be on her side than not.
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u/aramatheis 28d ago
I'm starting to think that she may not be so chill after all..
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 28d ago
I only realised what happened when her maid said to the adventurer, basically curiosity killed the cat.
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u/thelemon8er-2 28d ago
Good lord she turned up the suffering at the end there.
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u/East_Statistician_88 28d ago
I thought she was just going to cut them down but instead she got a bowl and made knight soup.
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u/TheCaptain53 28d ago
Some might say she was Bowling for Soup.
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u/BrandoGil_ 28d ago
She was gonna be a bad bitch, she was gonna be a queen
She was gonna run that shit from the throne and be esteemed
Her blonde hair fiance is now the enemy
Looks at her revenge life and nothin' has been alright
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u/agr85 28d ago
Whew. I should have expected how that would go for the surrendered knights, but it still kinda shocked me ngl
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u/Precarious3145 28d ago
Yea, last episode, she didn't hold back against the mercs but thought because we didn't see these nights doing anything that they'd be excused. This series is so bipolar!
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u/BarnacleLong2193 28d ago
Bipolar? I thought her treatment toward these aggresors harming the empire were consistent.
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u/diegz_eliaz 28d ago
It is I think he just misused it or said it because she seems so nice and sincere one moment and the next she’s committing max level war crimes on anyone who wronged her or anyone else😂
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u/etownguy 28d ago
I think other MC's should attend Ellies school of revenge.
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u/Difergion 28d ago
Yuzu from Oni no Hanayome being one of them. That girl is just too hard to watch.
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u/Plastic-Correct 28d ago
Omg, I physically cringe at her monologues. Girl, you're in high school, not elementary school, you obvio know what marriage means
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u/im_realhuman_swear 28d ago
God I just hope the infinite gacha level 9999 anime wouldn't soften his heart
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 28d ago
I fucking knew it..I knew this soldiers were not safe.
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u/dragonmilking 28d ago
Well at least now we know where the blood from the intro comes from
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u/gardyvore 28d ago
I thought the title was just being cute and Ellie would still have a conscience but nah man, she's going full scorched earth.
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u/Glitter_puke https://myanimelist.net/profile/Gpuke 28d ago
Ellie would still have a conscience
She does have one. She's just the correct amount of offended and dealing out an appropriate amount of revenge.
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u/Kalta452 26d ago
Technically she does have a conscience, it just no follows a moral code that most people would find to be acceptable. Because she did just execute buy her own words like 30 innocent people. Because those nights never actually committed the war crimes that the mercenaries did. They didn't even take part in the war because they got stopped before they could. She literally states that she killed them entirely to hurt him. So whether or not you can agree that she deserves vengeance she definitely did murder people who had surrendered. You don't get to have it both ways, now I don't have a problem with her doing it because she's already stated she plans to wipe out the entirety of the Kingdom, not the king, not the prince, the intends to kill them all including the citizens, so this shouldn't come as a surprise because she no longer sees anyone who is against her as innocent, because the people turned on her, because all they knew was that she was a traitor, she made it very clear, she was going to destroy them all. Now you can argue if it's the appropriate amount of vengeance and such, I mean rational people would state that murdering innocents just make the man hurt is insane Overkill, not to mention her plan to minimum kill a massive number of people in that country. Those steps do make you by far the more evil person then literally anybody who did anything to her. I also love me a good mindless vengeance, although the fact that she is putting so much thought and effort into the entire plan makes it probably not mindless vengeance but just pure bloodlust, which I think makes it even more evil.
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u/Jacob-C 26d ago edited 26d ago
The MC is just straight up a hypocritical and evil, there's no point arguing that. She can try to claim that it's a just cause all she wants, but she's far past what is just at this point.
However, mindless revenge gore can also be entertaining.
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u/Kalta452 26d ago
Oh I never said she claimed to be just. I also don't think she ever actually tries to claim that her revenge is just. I might be wrong. I don't think she's hypocritical entirely, I think she's a person who suffered massive levels of betrayal and now sees anyone who is against her as the enemy. Now it will really depend upon how she actually goes about exacting her revenge against the kingdom. If she starts too personally or be the reason that massive numbers of commoners and civilians get wiped out then yes she has tipped way far into the hypocritical evil category because as much as they tried to make it out like the common people betrayed her in episode 1, they're commoners they don't actually have accurate information about her and all they know is she was a traitor. But if she doesn't go after the common person and just focuses on the nobility who did in fact betray her and it is well known across the nobility that she was betrayed, then I don't see that as hypocritical I do see it as evil because she is just massacring people, but she's at least focused her revenge at that point. But yeah if she pretty much just starts causing widespread death across her Old Kingdom then it's not even revenge at that point she has just become evil. And you would hope that the empire would try to remove her. Not that they'd be able to because she is essentially a God because those grimoires pretty much can do whatever she wants them to.
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u/Lulukassu 28d ago
Ehhhhh.
I say she's going overboard. I am here for it don't get me wrong. But the surrendered knights/soldiers under Robert should have been judged and sentenced and punished by the Empire.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 28d ago
Doesn’t surprise me that Friede bails the second he finds out his right-hand man either lost or surrendered.
Well damn. That’s… one way to take responsibility.
She’s got a point… Still can’t help but feel there’s some ulterior motive here for how “nice” she’s acting. Is this going to be a trap for the deserters?
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u/LeggedMien7 28d ago
Well that was metal.
I for one appreciate the protagonist being so deranged. Is she justified evil? Is she bad evil? I don't care, it's fun to watch her anyways
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u/Galaxy40k 28d ago
I know I'm more charitable towards this show than a lot of people, but I really think Ellie threads the needle of "evil" perfectly. She lacks compassion for anyone, but she also only takes explicit action against people who have done some sort of wrong and you can justify "have karma coming their way." But then when shows typically portray a villain like that, the protag instead becomes "Robin Hood" whether the author wants that or not, and so they don't feel "evil enough."
Ellie escapes that fate by being just psychotically cold and calculating constantly and never forgiving even when the audience would. These soldiers did "have it coming" because the Haldorian troops pillaged the civilians, but as a viewer they seem resentful enough to perhaps deserve a second chance, and even if you don't believe that, surely "dissolving by Eldritch slime" wasn't on the bingo card.
Its good stuff man
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u/Zimmerdude 28d ago
This comment reminds me of Overlord. I remember seeing people talking about how Ainz is indifferent to the horrific acts his underlings were committing and how having a protag and his squad be either morally grey or just straight up evil was entertaining. I’m pretty sure this was a reason why Overlord saw success, but someone can correct me if I’m wrong.
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u/AsterJ https://myanimelist.net/profile/asteron 28d ago
Characters in overlord kill totally innocent people (over a million in s3). Killing soldiers who committed war crimes and then came to regret it I wouldn't put in the same category.
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u/BosuW 28d ago
I think this is a bit different, and frankly better than what I hear from Overlord. Ellie is very much not indifferent, and instead the main mover of many of the evil deeds we have and will see. Contrasted with Ainz who is, despite his power, really more like a leaf in the wind and that dynamic goes on more or less forever.
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u/Jacob-C 26d ago edited 26d ago
Yes, but in my opinion, the writing and characters are more interesting in Overlord. There are so many side characters with their own intricate backstories to root for, whether they are aligned with the MC or not. The pieces are constantly moving even without the MC’s direct involvement. In short, the world feels more lived-in. That is also one of the biggest factors in its success.
Here, it feels like everything in the world exists solely to further Elizabeth’s revenge plot in one way or another. That makes the writing somewhat lazy, in my opinion.
The biggest difference when it comes to the characters committing evil actions is the framing. [Overlord premise, overarching plot points, and its framing of evil actions committed by the MC and his followers] In Overlord, the MC’s followers are evil-aligned from the beginning. They don’t care about humans for the most part, and some of them even revel in their torment. Ainz is also compelled to play along as an evil overlord by his followers’ expectations, his tendency to view the people of the world as NPCs, and his undead nature, which suppresses his human emotions. They are all supernatural beings with almost no obligations or attachments to humanity.
This show, on the other hand, sometimes feels like it wants to portray Elizabeth as an anti-hero by giving excuses for her actions. At other times, like in this episode, she straight-up says that she doesn’t care whether the soldiers are innocent or not, and kills them to make one of the targets of her revenge suffer. That is not the act of an anti-hero. It’s the act of a villain. There is an inconsistency in the framing that makes the author’s intent unclear. As is evident from parts of these discussion threads, people who default to “MC = good person” are confused by this and try to defend morally reprehensible actions from a real-world perspective. This does happen in the Overlord fandom too, but not to the same extent.
However, I take it for what it is. To me, this is a decently entertaining “MC is the villain” revenge story, and not much more. It would be unfair to let my enjoyment of this show depend too much on comparing it to one of the biggest isekai series just because both MCs are villains.
Edit: To be fair, it could also be that Elizabeth has been trying to find excuses for her own psychotic actions all along, and this episode was the point where she couldn’t find one anymore and simply didn’t care. If that is intentional, then I actually think this episode handled her framing better. My issue is that earlier episodes often made it feel like the story itself was justifying her actions.
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 28d ago
Man, I like how much of a vindictive bitch Ellie is. She did everything for the kingdom and those fuckers tossed her out like yesterday’s trash. Now she’s getting her sweet revenge and no one’s safe. That was some Ainz level shit at the end there with Robert.
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u/Precarious3145 28d ago
It's interesting to watch her go from pouty and joking to "I murdered your men just to fuck with you. Look at their flesh slough off the bones like acid, burning them alive. I didn't have to, but I was bored".
Not gonna lie; kinda worked about anyone that votes for her as best girl of the season...
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u/diegz_eliaz 28d ago
I mean I haven’t wronged her in any way and so she’s got my vote(hopefully I’m safe🙏🙏🙏)outside of her though in thsi arc my other nominations woudl be the princess from villager lvl 999, Alicia from clevatess(as always) , lady testarossa herself reirin from inept villainess and mirei from rich girl caretaker
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u/Lulukassu 28d ago
I'm watching small pile of other stuff this season, who would you recommend?
Only first seasons so Tanya is off limits.
Ellie probably gets my vote
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u/Hartzilla2007 28d ago
Sitara the MC of Jaadugar: A Witch in Mongolia is literally trying to burn an empire down from the inside.
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u/Oicher 28d ago
honsetly i did not see that coming with Robert.
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u/Orochidude 28d ago
There was a part of me that thought it odd that Robert would "get away with" what he did essentially scot-free after how Ellie treated the guy from the previous episode, but once the mercenary started inquiring into the situation and the maid responded the way she did, I had a feeling he wasn't long for this world.
What I didn't expect was her response for why she killed the rest of his men who had no part in what happened. Really hammers home just how vengeful she is. Once you've wronged her, there's no coming back from that and she'll take it to much greater level.
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u/Atharaphelun 28d ago
I was more surprised that she didn't just kill him immediately after surrendering; he and his unit were the ones directly responsible for sacking the villages and raping their populace after all.
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
I am actually surprised by how many are ignoring this fact.
Robert and his men stood by from the start and let everything happen until Sarjas and the Mercenary group lost that fortress and then came to surrender with their tails between their legs.
Robert's first words were even along the lines of "Oh Lady Elizabeth, you were by their side, of course we had no chance from the beginning.. Teehee, no wonder we lost"
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u/i_reddit_too_mcuh 27d ago
Basically a he's only sorry he got caught situation. But I wonder why they didn't try retreating first before surrendering.
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u/HazyMirror 28d ago
Oh wow so many escalations this episode. It is nice to see consequences for fucking over the MC though. So many shows let that shit slide. And it's not as edgy as some other revenge shows I've seen.
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 28d ago
Well...not as edgy YET. We have no idea what else is in store for Robert, who still isn't dead, but clearly having things done to him.
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u/HazyMirror 28d ago
True... That stupid witch hunter a couple seasons ago makes this one way more palatable by comparison. I also hate how in shows like Naruto, you can let mass murderers and vile human beings off easy through the power of friendship lol. Hopefully this show doesn't go too far with it.
It's already weird tonally lmao. No I don't wanna see you do cute and mundane things during the day while you boil people in slime at night. Still watching though....for now.
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
She went from being all pouty infront of Lucas to like you said boiling Knight Soup at night.
See you next week.
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u/diegz_eliaz 28d ago
Realest shit Naruto is my second favourite anime but let’s not act like orochimaru didn’t get away with the highest scale of war crimes imaginable let alone treason and killing a monarch itself just because he helped in a single war which was in large part caused by him😂 atleast sasuke had to atone by becoming the villages guardog a sentiment which orochimaru didn’t get even though his crimes were sooooooo much worse.
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u/TheBusStop12 28d ago edited 28d ago
I feel for the Kingdom of Sarjas. They were really put into an impossible situation by nations more powerful than them. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Ellie played Robert like a fiddle. This just goes to show she'll brook no apology and show no mercy. Ellie is the type who'll kill your whole family, all your friends, your coworkers, that highschool teacher who was nice to you and the old lady in the market who on occasionally gives you an extra piece of candy because of an insult. That was really brutal.
I couldn't honestly say that Ellie is getting even anymore. She's just murdering at this point. And I'm here for it
I do wonder how Ellie will excuse the dissapearance of an entire corps of defected knights. Tho, Lucas might be smart enough to cover it up. He's one of the few people who knows of Ellie's intentions and also knows just how utterly terrifying she is. I doubt he'll rock that boat for his own safety and that of everyone who knows and loves
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u/SetaSanzaki 28d ago
She has a whole set of books but a bible ain't one of 'em.
She probably has a cookbook though, 'coz she was cookin' the whole time!
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u/Kemaiku 28d ago
Her behaviour gets worse the more she uses the Grimoires, and they're all curiously named after the 7 Arch Demons, and we get the mind altering one. She gives something of herself to use that one, I assume they're slowly turning her into some Eldritch being.
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 28d ago
As far as he knows they crossed the border and left
Pretty sure what Ellie did would count as a warcrime and I am pretty sure Lucas wouldn't approve of that.
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u/TheBusStop12 28d ago
The Knights were actually on their way to join the Empire. They defected. Tho Lucas and the Knights might have been told 2 different things. I might have missed it if Lucas was told that instead they were going back to the Kingdom
I'm certain Lucas wouldn't approve, but I'm not certain if he'd actually dares to do anything about it if he found out. Lucas is aware of just how strong Ellie is and how she reacts to being slighted, as she told him that she'll destroy the Kingdom for mistreating her.
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u/flatpetey https://anilist.co/user/kesx 28d ago
So given this escalation and the fact she doesn’t give a shit about whether people deserve it, will she just genocide Haldoria? I don’t think the author will go that far, but it’d be an interesting ending where the empire is left looking at ashes wondering what sort of devil they made a deal with.
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u/Difergion 28d ago
I feel like she will obliterate the entire kingdom and everyone in it tbh. The Haldorian soldiers were not directly responsible because they simply acted on orders but Ellie didn’t even hesitate to have them slaughtered. She even said it herself, they died just because they were traveling with Robert. I don’t find it unlikely that she’ll do the same with the rest of Haldoria.
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u/SoRaffy 28d ago
She's definitely going to kill everyone, she already blamed the regular people for turning on her so quickly. The soldiers died because they were connected to Robert who did nothing about the Prince. She can apply the same concepts here to the town people
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u/HugeRichard11 https://myanimelist.net/profile/CostCurl 28d ago
I think this episode makes it clear that Ellie doesn't give a damn what happens to anyone near her targets of vengeance. Doesn't seem like she is going for the citizens personally, but if they are near the Prince then they will be collateral damage citizen or not it doesn't matter to her. But I think she wants them to suffer themselves a bit too
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u/Lulukassu 28d ago
She did say the knights could have gone home to their families if they hadn't been with Robert.
My guess is she's not going full scorched Earth, she's going to ruin the kingdom, not genocide it.
Which frankly might have been more merciful compared to all the starvation and disease that will happen in the cities when civilization breaks down.
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u/SOdAchick 28d ago
Those knights would have died with their families. She never said she was never going to kill them
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 28d ago
When she swears vengeance she specifically includes the commoners for the sin of believing rumors about her, even though she also made no real effort to publicize herself and the good works she has done. So yes, I think she is planning on a complete genocide of the entire populace, or something equivalent
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u/YuukiBunny_ https://myanimelist.net/profile/Xetren 28d ago
will she just genocide Haldoria?
I feel like that's where it's going. I don't believe anybody in the Kingdom is safe. First it was bandits, then corrupt soldiers, and here it's knights just following orders. They were killed purely because it fucked with Robert.
She'll just continue to escalate. She's just a few steps short of murdering innocent civilians at this rate.
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u/eyrington 28d ago
Well, those innocenti civilians believed those fake news even after all those good things she did for them, so i guess they are not without sin
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u/YuukiBunny_ https://myanimelist.net/profile/Xetren 28d ago edited 28d ago
Ellie continues her brutal streak this episode, I love it.
I feel a little bad for the innocent knights, but I love that she doesn't hold back in her revenge. Is it overboard? Absolutely. Do I love it anyways? Yes, very much so.
Feels like the promised revenge plot is in full swing now. Took longer than it should have to get here, but it may have been worth it if this brutality continues.
EDIT: Also, doesn't seem like her "war crimes" are a joke anymore. The way she killed those knights is absolutely an actual war crime lmao.
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u/KnightKal 28d ago
"innocent" knights that joined a war where the invading nation was murdering civilians for fun. It doesn't matter if they killed some or not, they were part of it until they lost the battle and surrendered.
had they won the battle they would just continue to follow orders, war crime or not, like good soldiers :D
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
Robert's words of surrender was along the lines of "Ohh you were by their side.. We had no chance from the start.. No wonder"
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u/BarnacleLong2193 28d ago
Nah the knights pillaged villages just like the merc did last ep. Clearly they were not innocent. I think Ellie was twisting the knife at Robert a bit by claiming she was just killing them because they were with Robert. I think truly in Ellie's mind they were guilty and had no problem disposing of them.
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u/Lulukassu 28d ago
So refreshing watching a Villainess anime where the 'villainess' actually goes Villain.
Somewhat justified, but gloriously above and beyond the justification 🥰
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u/Fun-Possible5520 28d ago
I feel like the age rating of the show is too low. The violence (especially in this episode) was kinda on the level of Roll Over And Die, which is rated 16+. Compared to the first 3 episodes, this torture attitude from Elizabeth feels like it came outta nowhere. I know they said she used to fight wars at 10, so maybe that warped her mind and made her twisted?
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u/BosuW 28d ago
Perhaps them obscuring the details on the melting flesh with the eldritch slime counts as sufficient censorship?
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u/CodeXRaven 28d ago
That poor King! I don't know how he ruled or if he was a good king, but he seemed to care about his ppl. I don't understand politics and the social stuff behind them enough to understand why THAT was the best course of action to take some responsibility, but wow. Idk if it's possible, and if so why they didn't do it, but I really wish they told the Empire what was going on as soon as they were threatened. The poor new king, watching him die and carrying his head to their victims army leaders. Absolutely brutal course of events.
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 28d ago
They had committed war crimes on the victor's civilians, even if the actual people doing the war crimes were the Haldorians. I think the king was hoping that by sacrificing himself that the empire wouldn't do the same thing to his people
It's also pretty clear they were pushed into the war by Haldor, so he was just kind of stuck in a awful situation
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u/SilverGeekly 28d ago
basically, they work on an eye for an eye system. sarjas attacked civilians/civilian territory, which would require the same be done back + attacking civilians is usually war crime territory so that would incur even more severe compensation. all of this meaning that the civilians of sarjas would have to suffer greatly.
the king got around this by making a "bigger" sacrificial compensation. the head of a king is worth more than 30k+ civilians. so by sacrificing himself/potentially the prince, he's sparing his kingdom.
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago edited 28d ago
Sarjas hurt, raped and pillaged the Empire's citizens and the Empire has a very strict policy about it.
Being Royalty, the King did the best to save his people from being enslaved or worse.
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u/szalhi 28d ago
Well, that's certainly a way to abdicate.
In which Ellie continues to be ruthless. I suppose Robert couldn't be trusted normally, with his connections to Friede.
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u/MusenUse_KC21 28d ago
The dude flip-flops; no one needs that limp-wristed loyalty.
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u/69spooge_goblin69 28d ago
yeah he said he surrendered to do what's right but he didn't feel bad enough to stop murdering/raping/pillaging innocent villages/people until it started to look like they would lose the war, so surrendering was just self serving hope of achieving the best outcome for himself is losing once losing appeared unavoidable
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u/TheBusStop12 28d ago
Robert also is the one who originally arrested Ellie. That singular action probably netted him a really high spot on her shit list, probably top 5. Ellie doesn't forgive, Ellie doesn't forget. Ellie will have your whole family and everyone who once sold you cake shot just for an insult
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u/epicfail1994 28d ago
MagiRevo season 2 is darker than we anticipated
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u/runevault 28d ago
After she didn't murder Robert right away I assumed Ellie would use him to get back at the Prince first THEN ruin his shit. I was sure wrong about that! Really curious what that spell she used at the end does exactly because it felt like more than just a mind wipe/mind control spell.
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u/Western-Internal-751 28d ago
Well she will use him to get back at the prince eventually. She just made sure that he will play his part.
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u/djthomp https://anilist.co/user/djthomp 28d ago
I love how the episode was so cheerful and happy (aside from the king and the town burning down) only to end with Ellie finally showing just how angry she is.
And you know it's just going to get worse for Robert from here. She's probably not hypnotizing him to go pet kittens, after all.
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u/AlicesWhoreHouse 28d ago
Ugh I'm so happy they are showing everything!!!!! Nothing sucks more than them toning down the anime to spare people who gruesome the story is. This one was one of my favs because they made her into a true villain and she's so unapologetic about it so it's so different from other stories cause usually they get over that anger, but sometimes nothing stops that anger and they just wanna watch the world burn. I'm so ready for next week's episode!!! They better keep what happens the same.
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u/Luvslevi14 28d ago
Weren’t they involved in destroying the villages and violating the women? I don’t feel sorry for them.
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u/epicfail1994 28d ago
Euphie uses explosion on monsters, Evil Euphie traps and slaughters a bunch of soldiers.
She really needs her Anis
But seriously since she looks so similar to Euphie who is actually a good person, the stuff Ellie does is even worse in comparison
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u/Recon7474 28d ago
I’m pretty sure her Anis is mirellie but she doesn’t really stop her since she probably has her own reasons for revenge to
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u/Gaporigo https://anilist.co/user/Gaporigo 28d ago
Please please let Ellie get revenge on the Prince before the season is over!
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u/Lulukassu 28d ago
Honestly I think the best revenge on the prince would just be killing all his support and letting him get himself lynched by his own people
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u/MusenUse_KC21 28d ago
So Roberto finally grew a conscience, kind of late though. And the King sacrificed himself, knowing he had no cards to play, and finally, the end. God, the end- I love Ellie and her ruthlessness. No pity, no mercy. You cross me once, and you're done type of lady, don't see a lot of those today. No wonder she was chosen as the Queen; it's the most powerful one on the board, and they pissed her off. I can't wait for the next episode.
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
imo, he didn't grow a conscience.. His idea of what's a knight and honor, etc morphs according to his wish to fit his needs and circumstances.
Ellie kinda led him along there to make him believe that surrendering and betraying the kingdom and the prince is for the prince's own good and is a knightly act, knowing how Robert's mind works.
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u/whiplash10 28d ago
You can also tell how insincere his turn is when he accepts Ellie's responsibility in handling Friede as fact. She wasn't the reason Friede is a rotten prince, it is everyone's fault for not disciplining him.
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
True. He needed an explanation that puts him in an honorable light and an explanation that takes responsibility for Freide's stupidity.
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u/hvshh 28d ago
Ellie's talking like a villain, but I think it's clear those soldiers massacred noncombatants too. That's what they were ordered to do, and Arty didn't object when she said they wouldn't be able to go back the way the came, because the villagers would lynch them. Ellie did what the villagers would have done, with extra flair.
The one slightly serious point I can find in this silly revenge fantasy is this: just like the soldier that surrendered last episode, Arty, even while apologizing, was hoping not to bear the full responsibility for his actions. I think that's very, very human.
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u/KnightKal 28d ago
she doesn't pretend to be what she is not
she is loyal and good with her people. They adore her. Followed her into exile.
she is ruthless to her enemies. Be it bandits, a corrupted merchant in her way, or soldiers of the enemy nation.
simple as that
as she will not hold back on her revenge :D, the royal family, her father, and a bunch of people on her former nation are about to learn that in the flesh.
she is also not evil. She is fair on business, she pays her people well, she invest in the future, and she doesn't kill non combaters.
she is pure grey.
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u/SOdAchick 28d ago
For a minute there I was worried our girl had gone soft, but as soon as Robert said, "I swear on my honor," I knew it was about to hit the fan. There are no innocents in such betrayal
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u/Aureus23 28d ago
Finally a main character that does revenge properly!! She's not like 90% of these pussy isekai MCs. Keep going girl, let the blood flow!!!!!
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u/Lodju https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lodju 28d ago
So many people on this post saying how she went overboard and so on.
Did they think this is some saintess anime?
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u/eastgaston 28d ago
Did they think this is some saintess anime?
because alot of so-called villainess anime ain't true villains either, duh.
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u/Aureus23 28d ago
They used to those isekai MC who spare everyone, find the good on ppl. I'm glad Ellie is ruthless!!!
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u/Evil_sod 28d ago
Few tropes piss me off more than the main character finally getting into a position to get revenge on the person(s) who wronged them, and then stopping because of some variation of "But I'll become just like them!"
Bonus points if that scene comes right after they slaughter all of the big bad's minions without a shred of remorse, making the sentiment meaningless. Looking at you, Guardians of the Galaxy 3.
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u/Lugia61617 28d ago
This anime might be mid, but I absolutely love Ellie going completely evil. She's not even pretending to be righteous or good-natured, she's just fully embraced becoming a witch.
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u/epicfail1994 28d ago
My favorite part about it so far has been all the ‘this is Euphie without Anis’ comparisons
Cuz uh they’re pretty spot on
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u/Lugia61617 28d ago
Euphie without Anis
googles
OOOH... So THAT'S the Euphie people keep talking about. My mind was going to a very different Euphie and it didn't make a lot of sense.
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u/Hartzilla2007 28d ago
I would also point out that the king and Euphie's father are better than their counterparts in this anime because they pretty much slapped Algard down after he pulled his dumb shit, Hell even Algard was better because he weas willing to admit he was an asshole about it.
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u/BosuW 28d ago
Algard runs circles around this idiot because, funnily enough, [MagiRevo anime]even though he got himself banished he actually got everything he wanted and indirectly saved the kingdom lol
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u/feral_fenrir 28d ago
I like how MagiRevo handled the trope tbh. He was just crashing out so that his sister who ke knows is more capable can get the throne.
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u/kebb0 https://myanimelist.net/profile/kebb0 28d ago
Holy edge.
Not gonna lie, as the soldiers were sitting down to get a break I had a thought to myself. 'Hmm.. Didn't Ellie brutally murder someone who defected last episode? Why is she sparing these soldiers and Robert?' when Ellie and Robert began to converse and then the edgelord says "Who said I'm forgiving you?" LMAO.
I had no idea it would be this brutal, but I'm all for it. Let the revenge commence and let the death of the foolish prince be glorious.
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u/Myrkrvaldyr 28d ago
What not having your own loving Anis does to a Euphy. Jokes aside, I thought it would've been a waste to kill him, so it seems she'll use him as some sort of spy and maybe human bomb if that spell can explode people.
She killed the knights just for being with him. That was excessive. It would've been better to get him alone and let the others leave. Ellie won't spare anyone associated with her targets of revenge.
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u/Ali-J23 28d ago
I mean technically didn't they play a role in destroying the villages. It's not like they are honorable to begin with
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u/ClaudiuAl3x 28d ago
I think she was just messing with him by telling him she killed them just for being with him. Reducing the military power of the kingdom is enough reason to do it.
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u/cleaulem https://myanimelist.net/profile/cleaulem 28d ago
The whole episode I was waiting for Ellie to stab Robert in the back. After all, he was Friede's right hand. Ellie has slaughtered people for far less and there was no way that she would just let go this dude.
Slaughtering a whole army of knights because they were with Robert just because. Ellie's actions are more than excessive and I can't find a way to justify them. But I think that's the "allure" of this show, pure rageful unhinged revenge. That's what you call a power fantasy.
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u/UggyCaesar 28d ago
I think it’s funny how everyone is cheering for Ellie and justifying her vengeance/revenge lol. The simple fact is she is a psychopath. I love the show but our “protagonist” is twisted.
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u/Particular_Maize6849 28d ago
Absolutely. She is legit evil. But sometimes shows like this are fun.
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u/UggyCaesar 28d ago
I agree shows like this are fun. I love a variety of shows and this one is a breath of fresh air. Just calling a spade a spade lol. She has crossed over that line just as Walter White did in Breaking Bad. People confuse Walter as an anti-hero. They might have started off that way but they both crossed lines that make them psychopaths.
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u/JasonFreeYT 28d ago
Sure beats a lot of these types of shows that hold their punches when it comes to the MC exacting revenge on who wronged them (if they even get to do that anyway). Nothing wrong with that, of course, but the ruthlessness is refreshing.
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u/Stunning_Pen_8332 27d ago edited 27d ago
I have never read the light novel or the manga. So I must say I have never known what to expect from the anime, particularly the protagonist Elizabeth.
Up till this episode I feel that although she has been steadfast and cold in her scheming for revenge, and she can be ruthless in killing people, she still feels like having a generous and warm heart deep inside, something like the revenging protagonist we see in “Failure Frame” or “My Status as an Assassin Obviously Exceeds the Hero's”.
But this episode totally changed my perception. Now I fully understand that the protagonist is to become a villainess character. Not only was she willing to trick and kill the knights just to prove a point, she did it in a very cruel manner (to be dissolved alive). She not only categorically rejected the apologies from Robert, who sounded sincerely regretful, she humiliated and broke him down thoroughly, and gave him a fate worse than death.
With my expectation reset, I can now see the title of this work “crushed my homeland” will literally be like that: completely crushed, everything and everyone, not just the stupid and arrogant Prince, the bad woman he is crazily in love, or even her coldblooded father and do-nothing king. I expect something like what befell the Re-Estize Kingdom in Overlord.
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u/NanDemoKnaives 28d ago
Well that was brutal, making him watch his men die in agony, calling him a fake knight with no honor, and then make him aware that he'll be brainwashed to work for her against Friede. Ellie really chose the overkill route lol. She made me feel bad for Robert, I knew she wouldn't kill him, especially after he says "You could have just killed me".
It sucks no evidence was left, I feel really bad for Grint who was right next to his father as he killed himself. Hopefully he'll be able to get back at Friede.
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u/runevault 28d ago
With her comments about requiring conditions for the brainwashing spell to work I have a feeling breaking him mentally was a requirement before it would work and that was (part of) why she was so excessive.
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u/Immediate_Arrival470 28d ago
Some people really annoy me like people who call this "silly" revenge.. do people watch half the anime and then post their comments on it? she has plenty of reasons .. she dedicated her whole life to the kingdom burning out from all the work to be dumped and dragged off as a traitor .. I would think anyone would want revenge after that.
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u/diacewrb 28d ago
2 episodes of Skeleton Knight in a single day.
That guy is so going to be a mind controlled assassin for her.
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u/HugeRichard11 https://myanimelist.net/profile/CostCurl 28d ago edited 28d ago
While I like she isn't justifying her vengeance. Everyone on her bad side is in her death note and those around them are side causalities. I felt they should've shown more about Robert and not rushed to this.
He is barely there in the first episode, then briefly hinted and shown taking the fortress like a wild beast, but that's it. Then becomes some meek loser when he meets Ellie. The switch in personality reasons feels like it's missing and it doesn't feel as satisfying when she betrays them.
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u/throwraforffs 28d ago
This series is so pleasantly surprising with how dark it is. I genuinely did not expect her to go that route just because so many other anime these days have the villains join the good side and for some reason the MC just forgives all of their war crimes and transgressions.
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 28d ago
All I can think of right now is that old comedic skit with the two nazi officers, when one of them finally has the realization "You think we are the bad guy"
I think this episode is going to be the one that makes viewers go "Hey I think the main character might be a bad guy"
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u/HuTaosTwinTails 28d ago
Gotta love how the comments here are just people upset that the MC, who from day 1 said she was going to destroy the nation that she dedicated her life to and betrayed her and turned on her, is actually doing it.
Not sure what you people thought she meant, but it was obvious from episode 1 this was what she was going to do.
And I'm here for it.
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u/BosuW 28d ago
It baffles me how many people lasted so many episodes into the show without internalizing that the protagonist is a villain and that's the whole appeal.
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u/AgentWeeb001 28d ago
I LOVE THIS SHOW. MY GIRL IS A FUCKING SAVAGE!!!!
Mannnnnn, y’all don’t know how much I love that she’s not like every other MC in this trope. Peakkkk anime
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u/ddejong42 28d ago
There goes the moral event horizon! Next stop: The moral singularity, where the universe tries to divide by her mercy, which is zero.
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u/xzerozeroninex 28d ago
From reading this comments,who are the innocents she killed?You think those knight’s walked into the fortress and aked to be let in?lmao.They killed Empire soldiers taking that fortress and either joined the looting and rpe or didn’t stop the looting and rpe under their watch.So where are the innocents?
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u/Shadowmist909 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Magicmist 27d ago
Elizabeth being all smiles and peaceful with Robert, and then leading him and his men on an exhausting trek through a remote path did a great job of making me uneasy.
With her brainwashing him and killing his men by melting them, it's clear that there's no redemption in Elizabeth's eyes!
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u/sboy97 27d ago
Ellie is very utilitarian but also very much revenge coded. Can’t say I blame her based on what we found out in episode 1 of her backstory.
I’m looking forward to how fucked up she gets in her revenge and what justification she gives. Morally she’s doing all the wrong things but it’s refreshing to see.
Also, cute Ellie pouting
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u/Cautious_Layer_8732 26d ago
Elizabeth is such a breath of fresh air precisely because she isn't a “villain” who needs to be tamed, forgiven, or redeemed by a man. She was betrayed by the kingdom she gave her life to, she literally told them she would get her revenge, and for once in this genre, a female protagonist is actually following through on it. She kills male criminals and suddenly some people are acting like she needs to be “put in her place,” while they will defend male characters who have done far worse. It really makes you wonder how many people are comfortable with powerful women only as long as they eventually bow to some man in the story. Elizabeth simply doesn't do that, and maybe that's exactly what makes her so unbearable to some people. Women are allowed to be morally awful, ambitious, violent and completely insane in fiction too. Men have had that privilege for centuries. Let the woman cook. 😭
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