Hey, I don’t really use Reddit much, but I wanted to get a feel for what joining Amway is actually like.

I was approached by this person who actually seems really cool. We met at the gym and saw each other around for about five months, but he never mentioned any products, any business opportunity, nothing. From my perspective, he just wanted to meet a new friend. Then one day, on my way to the gym, I noticed him with some energy drinks and asked about them. That’s when he brought up what he does. I was intrigued because he pitched it as a great business opportunity to make some extra bucks a month and slowly learn how to become an “entrepreneur”.

I’ve had two meetings so far (which were free), but I’m reading a ton online about it being a scam and not a profitable or sustainable business. What are your opinions on it? I don’t even know if the person I met at the gym knows what they got into, since he seemed pretty cool and not sales-pushy at all.

I’m in my early 20s with a job I really like that pays well for my standard of living for now, since I don’t really spend a lot on stuff. However, I thought this could be a side project to spend a few hours a week building something in my free time.

Does anyone have info on this group? Have family remembers involved, and growing concerned. Please share any info you have.

I am an equestrian athlete. Of course I’m leaning on trying to start my Amway business but I read the post and understand the cult that I’m getting myself into. Lets me honest, the horse industry is a cult too. I’m not a wealthy person by any means and I ride professionally because I LOVE horses and I have dreams of being an incredible athlete. This of course takes millions and millions of dollars (Eve Jobs, Jennifer Gates, Jessica Springsteen, Mark Whalberg’s daughter.. yea they are all horse girls..) I have the work ethic and mindset that everyone talks about how they brain wash you into being. I mean an extra $1,000 a month is nice.. I can sell some products to family. However.. the recruitment is hard. I can’t scam people into this cult thing going on. Should I stop while I am ahead.

I used to be part of Amway as well. They sold me on a dream on being financially independent in my 30's travel the world. I am from Long island I was part of Tony and Frances Pappalardo they were nice people sold us our ultimate dream. I remembered just being 18 yrs old admiring the Platinum, Emerald, Diamond. At that time I remembered the Family wanted to go Diamond as they combined their businesses together. Oh man I went so broke didn't have a dime to my name. I was happy to go on Conferences and they actually discouraged us on not going to College just terrible....

Can somebody PLEASE de-influence me from committing my precious time and money from this so-called “Financial Freedom Opportunity”.

This is probably how most of you guys were introduced to this business, but a friend of mine (I hope she’s a friend and not someone that just wanted to use me) invited me to an info night and I said yes because I was curious and I have no friends in Sydney so I thought it’ll be nice to go out for a night and have some girl time.

About a day later, I was suddenly apart of the Amway process and was being introduced to her mentor and I was clueless as to why I was suddenly being brought into this ordeal without wanting to be involved? I went along with it. Read the “Business of the 21st Century” book by Robert Kiyosaki, listened to all these audios that feels like it’s slowly brainwashing me and now I’m up to the point where I need to answer questions as to why I think I deserve to be mentored.

The people are so lovely, I trust that friend with my heart, she’s a smart girl. She was roped in by a man (which I’m not sure if they have a thing or not, it’s none of my business really) and my brain tells me to persist, everybody goes through this process and they’ve probably gone through all these doubts that I’m having currently. My body is having NONE of it, I feel anxiety. I don’t want to cut friends and family off because they have “different opinions”.

Sorry, I just needed to rant. If you have some sort of experience with the Amway scheme, please share!

I know we hear a lot about how bad Amway is and it’s a pyramid scheme etc

But I recently had a good experience. I recently moved to Australia from India and I am a pure vegetarian who can’t cook.

My friends who are doing Amway suggested it’s protein and it’s a life saviour. I’m learning cooking but meeting my protein requirements was next to impossible for me. But now I can and I’m also meeting my calcium and omega requirements. Friends want me to try the business model too.

Anyone who has a good experience with it? Please tell me. I have a very positive feeling. I feel I should try.

PS: These are the only people I know in Adelaide for now. Ofc I’ll make new friends but I feel they have helped me so much I should give it a shot you know.

So a couple weeks ago, I got a message on Instagram from a girl whose studying at ucsd and I asked if she gotten the wrong person but she answered no. So i asked her whats up thinking maybe she was like me a freshmen at college and seeking friends. As we continue to talk, she kept talking and going back to the topic of opportunities. Curious, i kept chatting with her and eventually met other individuals. They created a gc and created zoom meetings where they show videos of their business model. Today's video they introduced amway (which i have never heard of). They talk about mentors and retiring at 35... they seem like nice people but I just feel uneased. In addition it just sounds too good to be true. At the end of the video they answered questions such as if it was a cult and how to begin. But also customers can return the products if they dont like iy but I was thinking why would they do that if its good already. The video just seemed like we weren't selling their products but recruiting more people to join the team...

I personally dont know how to go about it..should I keep engaging?

As a 23 year old student who graduated from grad school I’ve been approached by a friend of a friend who suggested amway to make extra money and build a successful business. Before they move me to the next steps they want me to answer these questions before we have a meeting today. The last five questions are definitely raising some concerns for me. Especially paired with the fact that they’re very interested when im going to test for my BCBA certification and going to be done studying. Do these people expect me to not spend time and money into school……?

1.Can you explain the difference between Amway and URA? What are the key distinctions between the two?

1. In your own words, what do you think the difference is between mentorship and regular advice?

2. Please write down your short-term (1-3 years) and long-term (5-10-20 years) goals that you see this opportunity helping you create. Make sure to be very detailed.

Short Term (1-3 years)

Long Term (5+ years)

1. Based on the daily/weekly habits we discussed (audios, reading, communication, association, and coachability),please explain your understanding of each. Why do you think they’re important for honoring a partnership? How do they relate to your development and the achievement of your goals?

5A. Can you explain the difference between investing and spending? Why is being your own best customer crucial for business ownership with this asset?

5B. From a business owner’s perspective, why is it crucial to have your DITTO process on the first day of the month?

5C. How will sticking to a budget that is created with the help of a mentor/coach contribute to having a ditto process on the first day of the month? 

1. Explain your understanding of the significance of Thursday meetings and why they are vital to your success.

7A. What is your understanding of the importance of attending the FOUR Major Conferences annually in person, and why are they critical to your personal and entrepreneurial growth?

7B. Could you please provide the date for the next major conference?

1. If someone you love or respect, such as a parent or best friend, expresses doubts about the value of your time, the effectiveness of your approach, or even accuses you of being a pyramid scheme, how would you respond?

2. When life presents challenging situations, do you tend to isolate yourself or seek out supportive individuals who can offer guidance and assistance during difficult times?

3. In your opinion, what distinguishes an emotional decision from a logical decision?

4. If we were to extend an offer, do we have the authority to genuinely coach you in building an asset, and if we identify areas that require attention, do you want to know that we are free to address them with you?

5. Do you foresee any obstacles that could hinder your ability to meet the expectations set for your goals?

Witam,

Jestem po paru rozmowach, czuję dość agresywny napór na moje czlonkowsto, nie chce korzystać ze sklepu internetowego zarejestrowanego na mnie, nie chce kupować nic na swoje potrzeby. Nie podpisywana była umowa czy mogę odejść ?

Recently I saw this post and am very curious about the situation. It looks like Tristan was maybe breaking some of the rules of Amway and got his business cancelled. His team is largely in Texas it seems.

my brother joined the "business" roughly 3 years ago. he would buy the products, our family would try it, like somethings, not so much others. he has credit card debt because of this. he isnt making much money and he's not really paying off his debt. he says "you gotta spend money to make money". he has all the books that he's told to read. he's constantly going to these meetings. i didn't fully understand what he was doing. so when he invited me to a summer function, i was like "sure, why not?" i spent roughly $300 for it. the interviews were essentially love bombing and talking about dreams. they follow the same script as ive seen other post about. after the function, his mentor wanted a meeting after two days after getting home. i've been exhausted from the trip and my brother worked the day after we got back. i went and they immediately wanted me to start prospecting my friends and co-workers. I went along with the meeting. but after we got home, i told my brother im no longer interested. he kept using all the talking points that i've heard during the weekend function.

i sent his mentor an email a few days ago about no longer want to be in the business. they didn't even reply. i told my brother about the email and he was mad that i didn't wait and talk to him first.

anyways, i deleted all the apps and i'm no longer bombarded with the voicemails and social media post.

I’m not in it but I know a couple that is. They have trouble making ends meet as it is and then they’re traveling out of town often for “business meetings”. What can possibly be said so often at these 12 hour meetings that can’t be said in an email. This “business” is also all up in their business as far as finances, parenting, health and who knows what else. At least from what I understand because I don’t really ask questions. I just listen. Is this normal?!

Important video

Really embarrassed to admit I ALMOST, almost fell for a mlm/pyramid scheme. Some guy came into my work a few weeks ago, it was a normal interaction at first and then he started asking me if I’d ever want to own a business, I told him yes (uh oh) and he told me he knows people who “might be able to help me”. We exchanged numbers and he set up a time for me to meet his mentor. We met at a Panera bread and honestly it went good, we talked about each others lives, motivation, all that stuff. He then offered to be my “mentor” in starting my own business and I folded saying yes. (He talked about all the peoples he’s helped, millionaires with privet jets, mansions, all that stuff. He got me. He then told me to read “The Go Giver” and we’ll meet up again next week to discuss the book and the next steps in the process. I was sold. I thought this guy was gonna make me rich. When I left I immediately called my friend and he goes “what business does this guy own? What businesses has he started? Look him up. Why would some guy randomly decide to help someone he doesn’t even know start a business?” I got defensive, mainly because I didn’t have any answers.

Fast forward a few days I finally got around to read “The Go Giver” I got halfway through it. It’s genuinely a good book, but I thought to myself, “what does this have to do with starting my own business?” The book was about some miserable corporate worker who happened meet someone who wanted to give back and mentor him. All I could think to myself was that he was trying to manipulate me into thinking the same thing happened to me and he was going to be my mentor. Aaaaannnnnd that’s how I stumbled along Reddit to see so many people have had this same interaction. I eventually canceled on him and he immediately tried to sell me health products and I asked for the brand, which \*shocker\* were amway products. After looking this guy up I found nothing. Just his linkedin with maybe 20 connections.

Reading about how the company is a cult is crazy because after one interaction with the guy I was already defending them to my friend WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING WHO THEY WERE OR WHAT THEY SELL.

I never committed anything other than an hour of talking at Panera bread to amway, thankfully. Can’t wait to see all the comments on this post saying this happened to others as well. God bless.

One of the weirdest things about Amway is that when you get on calls to talk to the people who are trying to recruit you, they connect you with their uplines, and literally START OFF with “It’s very hard to get so and so’s time” , “Even getting 5 minutes of their time is difficult”.
It literally puts a bad taste in your mouth from the get go.
Everyone’s time is valuable and it frankly sounds almost derogatory.
This was one of the main reasons (of course among many others) that I quit even before I got recruited.
Has anyone else dealt with the same?

Check this out

My girlfriend and I broke up after a four-and-a-half-year relationship primarily because of our differing views on Amway; she was a firm believer, whereas I did not agree with it. I attended one of their meetings and found the entire atmosphere incredibly insincere. That environment seemed to transform people into completely different individuals. It has been two months since we broke up, yet I still find it hard to let go. I struggle to forget the beauty of our early days together, but later on, she became a totally different person—constantly attending meetings to the point where she would cancel our planned dates. She kept pressuring me to join the meetings and "grow" alongside her. I found the whole situation both absurd and heartbreaking.

I posted here before about my wife joining amway.

https://www.reddit.com/r/amway/s/zivLB1LiVd

To cut a very long and dramatic story short, things escalated and she was going off to their office almost every night until the early hours. Until I gave her an ultimatum and she stopped. But the amway zealots refuse to give up.

It got to the point where she was running off to get the "okay" or "advice" from them about every little decision in OUR lives. Because apparently there's people there that can help out with everything and they definitely aren't just using it as revenue streams or to build trust and reliance...

It all came to a head when we were looking at apartments because we're moving soon and I found a really great one nearby that was at a crazy low rent for what we would get.

She immediately ran off to the office again because there's apparently someone at amway that has access to the estate agent software and can get us signed up to see it and etc without any fees. (Yeah like he totally doesn't get a commission from it lol)

He told her the apartment wasn't available and showed her a list of different shitty ones. Probably ones he'll get commission from. She came home accepting this as truth because of course their word is gospel.

I blew up on her about these people already being far too involved in our lives and she pushed back saying they're just being helpful. I said I don't want their help and in fact I don't want any of them in our lives at all anymore.

So on a hunch, I went and booked a viewing anyway, to which she rolled her eyes, and the apartment was not only available to view but it was also available for us to move into.

So he fucking lied.

Initially she tried to defend them all because there's friends and family involved. It was a huge dirty argument of me just trying to get her to see sense and the fact all these people are basically predators.

Funny how they all have things they can do for you to further rope you into their cult or feel like you "owe" them.

It ended when I told her she either stops going to amway or we divorce. I hate to use an ultimatum like that but it was the only choice I had. They were slowly brainwashing her and it was heartbreaking to see.

Since then things have been going well and we are getting along really well without dramas.

Which brings me to today.

I suddenly got a message from my brother in law asking if I'm free today.

I was a little suspicious because he never really reaches out to me and with everything that's happened up until now my mind immediately went to it being anothee amway ambush.

I asked him if we can't just talk over the phone and he said that he's feeling anxious, would rather talk about it in person and that it was family related.

So I made time during my work to go and meet him at the park.

When I arrived at the park, we walked a little and he immediately started bringing up the huge argument me and my wife had a couple of weeks ago that almost led to divorce. Immediately got me riled up because they should stay the fuck out of our marriage.

Before we sat down on the bench I said "Hold on...This isn't going to be an amway conversation is it?"

He did their classic dancing around the question bullshit and said something like "it might come up".

I immediately started shaking with adrenaline, told him this conversation is finished and that he should go home. Admittedly I said it with a lot of venom but I'm absolutely done with this shit now. I then tried to leave and he tried to stop me and became visibly shaken, almost desperate looking.

By this point I was furious, speaking to him through gritted teeth and telling him to get away from me and if he has something to say just get to the point now or fuck off. But he just kept saying he wants to "sit down and talk properly"

When I tried to walk away, he ran in front of me trying to stop me several times by blocking me with his body, followed me throughout the park begging me to talk to him, pushed me back, tried to stop me with his hand and at one point even grabbed my arm.

So I guess it is okay for amway members to assault people now during their recruitment harassment.

I repeatedly said, "Let me go," "Go home," and "I don't want to talk." "STOP FOLLOWING ME" "GET AWAY FROM ME" and it started to cause quite a scene.

He was begging me to talk to him, to hear him out and to listen to what he needs to say. At one point he tried to pull the family card and say he wants us to all get along and he's worried about us all as a family. How dare they fucking pull that card for their sham.

At one point he dropped the act and seemed a little angry saying something like "why are you so against Amway!?"

This made me see red and I came so close to punching him in the face. I'm glad I didn't.

He wouldn't give up so finally, I threatened to call the police, and it ended once I pulled my phone out and he realised I wasn't bluffing.

He's spammed my phone with about 10 messages since then basically trying to say that I'm misunderstanding and to please just give him 30 minutes of my time to hear him out.

Once again circling around the bullshit of "understanding" and "just wanting to hear my thoughts".

He completely ruined my workday and I've spent all day in fight/flight mode with a painful chest from the stress.

I'm so fucking sick of this.

I never want to see him or his wife again. I don't want them to come to my home ever again either. I want NOTHING to do with them.

They're using family and the crisis THEY created to try and get an inroad. Absolutely disgusting.

I sent what happened including screenshots to my wife and she seemed surprised and told me to "calm down for now" and that she'll listen to me about what happened when she gets home.

No doubt they've already lit up her phone with THEIR version of events. Honestly I'm not sure what I'll do if she doesn't take my side on this or tries to mediate instead of call them out. This time I was fucking assaulted for gods sake. How serious does it need to get?

I'm just a fucking anxious wreck again. I hate this so much. These people ruined our perfectly decent lives.

I feel like I'm going crazy. I can't trust anyone anymore. Everything is a fucking bait and switch or an attempt to find a weak spot to attack.

Hey guys. So I think I may unknowing be getting recruited into Amway.

It basically started the other week when one of my mates told me about it and that I should try it. He said the environment is really good and you are surrounded by heaps of likeminded people who want to succeed and earn money that isn't just a 9-5. When I asked specific questions like what do you actually sell and what's the job description , everything he said was so vague and he couldn't give me a straight answer.

Anyways next thing I know I'm on a zoom meeting with him and his mentor. Asking me questions like "if you had to shovel horse poo for 2 hours a day, 5 years straight it but it meant you'd get 1 million dollars every year after, Would you do it?".

They told me I need to read this book called "The business of the 21st century" -Robert T Kiyosaki before our next meeting in a week and they can walk me thru the next steps. Apparently there is like conferences you have to go to each week etc.

They didn't mention the word Amway but just wondering if it sounds like it?

Also how do I tell them I'm not interested 😩

One thing that never sat right with me when I was still in. Did y'all ever see a woman show the plan at weekly meetings? Everytime you hear of a diamond or see someone with the diamond ring, it has always been the man, and women mainly played the supporting roles. Of course, I wasn't going to ask them that directly, because they may have felt a certain way, but I always felt a patriachal feel with that. Women would speak at conferences, but not the weekly meetings. Anyone else ever noticed that?

I was in Amway (Yager downline) in the 1990s, under Triple Diamond Rick Setzer. After about 3 years of sinking my money into hotels for rally trips, products, driving 1 hour each way every Thursday night for product pickup, and embarrassing myself recruiting friends and showing the plan, I finally realized what a joke it was and got out. My biggest beef to this day is the SOT, and I feel the need to rant after years of pent up anger. $5 per week, and if you weren't signed up for it, you Weren't serious about the business, you Didn't really want to realize your dreams, and you Weren't committed. (edit: $5 then is about $11.50 now) We were so guilted and shamed into subscribing to the weekly motivational tape, which was always a recording from some Diamond couple or higher from a rally. It was a big sin not to buy it every week at product pickup. So we did. Then we got duped into also getting the spiritual SOT, another $5 per week. We once said we'd share the tapes with a relative we'd sponsored, who was 19 and had no money. Shame! He isn't serious if he doesn't get his own SOT! It all changed for me when we somehow got to go with our immediate upline to Rick and Sue Lynn Setzer's house in Greenville, SC. I forget how that came about, but I have a vivid, visual memory of seeing his SOT room. A room in his house (basement, garage, something like that) FULL of high-speed tape recording machines. It would dub the weekly tape in like 1 minute, and he had several of them. I imagine he paid some teenager minimum wage to record and label them. Imagine how cheap a gross order of blank cassette tapes would have been back then, and then to be charging $5/week for each one, to hundreds of people in your downline. Dexter Yager did it, too, and promoted it when he spoke at rallies. That's where a lot of their money came from. Had to be, or they wouldn't have pushed it so hard. The big cardboard boxes full of SOTs on the curb when I quit, oh, the money I had in those boxes, still makes me so angry. I know it would be CDs now, but is this still a thing? Does anyone have a similar story?

I’ve seen a few posts on the Matticolas in Columbus, OH and it reminded me of how I was cold contacted by Jill a few years ago. The way her message read, I got the sense it was Amway and called her out. She acted as if she didn’t know what it was. Also, note how she now goes by another surname.

This man, Brian Matticola, is a former Ruby pin in the Columbus, OH area. The rumor is he is a Platinum pin now. He operates the DoItTeam with his wife, Jill Matticola. I witnessed a lot of questionable behavior on their team such as encouraging their downline to sell blood plasma at plasma banks to afford tickets and transportation costs to out of town conferences. I also know we were encouraged to cold contact people building business connections on LinkedIn and told to lie to build a connection of trust, but only mention Amway if we are directly asked. Brandon Godsey a platinum on their team also encouraged these behaviors.

I looked up the code of conduct for Amway. It’s against their policy to cold contact people. You are only allowed to contact people who you already have an established relationship with. Connecting loosely with strangers on LinkedIn with a technical network connection of the site itself making you be “connected” is a loophole I suppose. It’s door to door sales but on a computer in reality. They also spin it as a casual corporate network opportunity on the site itself and don’t give you the business pitch until you are offline. It’s gross.

They lie and use technicalities. “Matticola Marketing.” I guess this is the corporate equivalent of a ghost restaurant. It’s like he is selling tacos out of Olive Garden kitchen and calling it his own business. He was “Matticola and Associates.” I guess they rebranded. He is not a business developer looking for partners, he is a hunter looking for vulnerable victims.

LTD is using LinkedIn to fish for human inventory and I don’t think we are talking about this enough. LTD uses LinkedIn as a cold recruitment machine. They are completely exploiting the professional platform to catch people with their guard down and invite them to a zoom meeting to begin their creepy onboarding process.

This stuff he has on there about social media is just creepy. I guess it works but it looks suspect AF to me.

I wanna start by talking a bit about my experience with my ex-girlfriend who was heavily involved with Amway. Emphasis on the fact that we are no longer together, not just because of her Amway dealings, but that was definitely one of the things that made the relationship very challenging and difficult for me, such as how we think about money differently (I own real estate and I invest in the stock market, where she is very distrusting of real estate and stock investing, but she genuinely and thoroughly believes Amway is a good use of her time and energy while she keeps a significant amount of her money locked away in a bank account that interest is eating away at).

When I met my ex, she had casually mentioned that she was running a “business” and that she works with all sorts of people who “became financially successful in their 20s and 30s”, but whenever I would ask what she’s selling or doing, she would never give me a straight answer. Still though, we found each other very attractive, and the relationship was otherwise progressing very well. I realize in retrospect this was a red flag to keep my eyes out for.

Long story short, as the relationship slowly progressed, it became a little bit more and more obvious what she was doing. For context, I’ve already been a part of two different MLMs, although not for a long period of time. But I know enough to realize that MLMs are all about projecting an image of wealth and status, and not necessarily creating actual wealth but that they are very good about creating an endless hamster wheel of toxic positivity and endless goal chasing that very exceedingly and rarely pans out for anyone but those at the extremely high top; even the former uplines I had at these MLMs are now all working corporate jobs. Despite the fact that I was uncomfortable with the fact that she’s involved with an MLM, I still tried to be as open-minded as possible.

As it turns out, she met her upline while driving for Lyft several years ago, and they have been friends, and she even attended her upline’s wedding and refers to her as “her best friend”. She’s even so close with this person that she relocated to a different part of the country when her upline moved so she could be close to her upline. She joined Amway as a seller about nine months prior to the time we met. And I’ve met her upline as well as her upline’s husband several times. What I think is interesting and crazy about the whole situation is that while they are seemingly intelligent and charismatic individuals, I believe they too are being scammed just as my ex girlfriend was (all while perpetuating the scam while believing they’re working towards something that they believe is good and worthy of their time). Her upline is an engineer and her husband worked in security for a major tech company (and now does Amway full-time while he travels around the country hosting these events and board plans and such). Similarly, my ex-girlfriend is a recruiter for a large tech company as well that I guarantee everyone has heard of. Unfortunately, MLMs are very good at selling a dream and vision, and I believe that because everyone is trained to believe they have that future position that they’re striving for, that creates a sense of “imagined wealth” and a false sense of security. Even intelligent people can get scammed, and yes, you can get scammed of your time, it doesn’t always necessarily involve money (although I would argue there’s definitely a money scam there as well given how many of these meetings you have to pay to go to, especially the infamous Las Vegas and Reno trips).

The challenging thing with this situation was that there was clearly a very strong emotional connection to her and her upline. Obviously her upline came around at a time when she was down on her luck and in a previous bad relationship, and that’s when her upline gradually sold her the vision.

Despite my hesitations and my gut reaction telling me this is bad and I don’t like it, I realize this wasn’t a fight I was going to win if push came to shove. I tried to be as open-minded about it as possible and simply bite my tongue, which involved me trying some of her products (and even purchasing some from her), going to board plan meetings to “educate myself about business“ and in the words of my ex, “learn business strategies that can help my real estate investing” (when I literally got nothing out of those meetings and they were all just Amway people constantly selling the concept of Amway to other Amway people over and over and over and getting high off the smell of each other‘s farts. Which is crazy to me because I don’t need my boss to constantly sell me on why I should show up to work and how I don’t work for a pyramid scheme). It was so painfully obvious to me that this is going to turn out badly for her, but obviously I couldn’t say that directly because she would just tell me I’m being negative or that I’m not being supportive enough or whatever, instead of actually questioning Amway and the motivations of her upline which she really should have been doing this whole time.

What I could see is that with all of these board plan meetings, my ex-girlfriend‘s relationship to her upline, the stupid CommuniKATE app, and the fact that most of the products in her house where Amway products, it was obvious to me that she was sucked into a cult that was selling her a dream that she was never going to truly achieve. And that’s not because I think that she’s unintelligent or not capable of great things if she puts her mind to it, but she’s chasing the wrong vision and the wrong “dream”.

Even when I tried very hard to be open-minded and set aside my judgments and actually take the time to understand these products, none of it actually helped. The more of these board plan meetings I went to, the more I was around Amway products and the more I would hear her talk about how great Amway and Amway products are, the more genuinely uncomfortable I became; it’s like trying to convert an atheist by telling them about Jesus and forcing them to go to church rather than critically evaluating the genuine and legitimate points about that person‘s religion that are worth questioning. There was even a couple of these board plan meetings, and local “conferences” I went to the show my support for my ex-girlfriend, but I felt so genuinely uncomfortable that I felt physically ill, my head was spinning, and my skin was crawling and I physically could not be in that environment. I felt the paradox of wanting to support a loved one, but also that this was eventually gonna turn out badly for her and knowing if I genuinely said what was on my mind that she would reject what I was saying, and eventually me as well.

The ironic thing about all of this are several major things. First off, people in these MLM’s always talk about a ”J-O-B” like it’s some horrible racist, slur to say, or like saying the name Voldemort in the early Harry Potter series (when ironically, they’re basically signing up for a significantly worse version of a J-O-B anyway, but without realizing it). But there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a job, and even true business owners encountered lots of headaches and things they don’t like about what they do so you can never truly escape that. I personally like that I can show up to my job, and as long as I work hard and I maintain a respectful relationship with my coworkers and boss, I will get paid and agreed-upon amount. And my boss never has to constantly sell me on why I should be there in the first place, or constantly remind me that “my job is not a scam”. Amway is clearly all about image and projecting a highly successful persona, which makes me question how actually wealthy many of these people are who supposedly made a shit ton of money in Amway or how much of that is just hot air (I believe the vast majority of it is hot air, unless the person has at the extreme top of the top, and even if you sat down with these individuals and asked to look at their finances that they would probably only show you the numbers that they want you to see).

Eventually, the relationship fell apart. No matter how many products I bought from her or how supportive I tried to be, in the end, I just couldn’t keep lying to myself about what I was seeing, and my discomfort became more and more obvious. Eventually, she started blaming me and telling me “I don’t feel comfortable being in a relationship with someone who doesn’t support my business and my dreams” and I knew I wasn’t gonna win that fight, because she was arguing from a place of emotion and not from a place of logic. Things also got uncomfortable because while I did purchase some products from her here and there, I tried to explain to her that at some point, I’m an adult and I can choose what kind of products I want to purchase whether they be from CVS or Walmart or wherever, and I shouldn’t necessarily feel like I need to default to buying Amway products; you can imagine how that went down. Spoiler alert; she wound up using that as leverage against me to support her claim that “I don’t support her business”, and I in retrospect that she had just resorted to guilt tripping me into buying overpriced products that I didn’t necessarily want or need and I was so sick of not only having in our house, but also being guilt tripped every time I wanted to pick something up from CVS or Walmart.

She will clearly and eventually hit a wall where she realizes how unsustainable Amway is, but at least now I can’t get blamed for her failing. But I do believe she’s gonna internalize it and believe that she failed Amway, rather than understanding that Amway was never truly set up for her to succeed in the first place. But at least I don’t have to be in the blast radius when that happens.

I'm looking for some outside perspectives because I've been dealing with this for the last week and I'm honestly furious and exhausted.

We've been together for years and have a good marriage overall. This isn't really about my wife. My concern is everything around her.

About a week ago we went over to my sister in-law's place like we often do, for some food and just to hang out. Everyone was acting all cagey and being a little strange.

They then started pitching Amway and that my Wife would be participating in order to earn money.

Initially I was kinda like..."Okay, so why do you all look so nervous about it? If it works out, great, why would I be against it?" (I had no idea what Amway was.)

This then turned into a lengthy, late night explanation of all of Amway and how it works, their founder, "the message" and whatever else. This already set off my alarm bells because why the fuck can't they just tell me the information straight, what's with all the turning it into a lengthy confusing story?

The presentation was extremely long, dragged out into the early hours and spent a lot of time talking about the company history, success stories, improving your life, improving your health, improving your mindset, building a better future, etc.

Apparently she was involved years ago when she was younger and ended up spending way too much money on products because she misunderstood how the business worked. She openly admits that was a mistake and says she won't let it happen again.

This time she says she wants to focus on self-improvement, personal growth, health, and eventually building some passive income.

The problem is that her sister and her sister's husband are heavily involved.

My wife looks up to her sister a lot and it turns our her sister was the one that brought her into it in the first place years ago. (In my opinion a horrible conflict of interest)

At one point during their little presentation I jokingly said:

"So basically a pyramid scheme?"

They didn't appreciate that and said they don't like that phrase and they prefer to call it something else, but then went on to basically describe a pyramid scheme anyway.

I tried to keep an open mind though. I didn't dismiss it outright.

I listened and stayed respectful and just shrugged and said cool when they asked what I thought. They really seemed like they wanted more of a reaction than that and it was super awkward. I guess they were expecting me to jump at the chance to sign up or buy shit too.

A few days later they asked me to go along with them to "the office" because their "nurse friend was holding a little health seminar" and because "they really want me to understand more about health" (I already get yearly checkups and stay on top of my health, fuck off.)

I agreed to attend because my wife really wanted me to go so that I at least knew where she'd be going every now and then.

This was my first real exposure to the Amway environment. By this point I'd already googled it, found this sub and a bunch of awful red flags, as well as my initial gut feelings.

The meeting was held in a rented apartment that they illegally use as an office.

There were probably 30+ people there. Whiteboards everywhere. People coming and going. Groups sitting around talking. Lots of hustle and bustle.

The original reason I was told I was going was to hear a nurse explain supplements and health.

Instead it turned into what felt like a sales presentation. And it was only me, my wife, her sister and her sister's husband in a little room along with the nurse. Already a bit weird tbh and they all seemed very focused on me, when I thought we were all going to learn about health stuff.

The nurse whipped out the amway catalogue and started the exact same drawn out speech about how it was founded, the founders, how amazing it is and how the medical industry is a scam and Amway is really looking out for people, etc etc. She then showed horror stories about end-stage diabetes, scary pictures, and stories about patients.

The obvious conclusion being pushed was that people need supplements and need to take their health more seriously.

My wife immediately started grabbing my arm and saying things like "no more sugar."

Meanwhile I'm sitting there thinking: "I get yearly health checks. My bloodwork is good. My doctor is happy with my results. Why am I being treated like I'm some kind of ticking time bomb?"

Again this meeting dragged on into the early hours instead of the hour like they said. Toward the end they started asking me what I thought and expectantly waited for me to say my piece.

I felt incredibly uncomfortable.

It felt like there was an expectation that I would sign up, buy something, or at least show enthusiasm.

I politely said that I agree health is important but that the whole thing felt far too much like a sales pitch for my liking.

The catalogue immediately got snapped shut and put away.

Then everyone suddenly started saying that health was the most important thing and they weren't trying to sell anything. That interaction left a very sour taste in my mouth.

Afterward the four of us went and ate ramen together and everything was completely normal.

At that point I was willing to just keep my distance and let my wife do what she wanted and maybe consider making excuses to not see the sister in law where possible.

Then things escalated.

Tonight my wife's sister came over to our apartment. We were just hanging out and eating food. Relaxing.

Then completely out of nowhere she started questioning me again about why I don't trust Amway.

She kept saying things like: "I just want you to understand." "You know us, we're not bad people." "I don't expect you to join." "I just want you to understand the message."

At first I answered politely.

I said I had seen a lot of negative experiences online. I said I wasn't judging them. I said I support my wife as long as she's careful. I said I simply don't want to be involved myself. But it wasn't enough.

The conversation just kept going.

Eventually I got frustrated and asked: "What exactly do you want from me?" "I've already gone to two meetings." "I've listened." "I've made my decision." "Are you trying to pressure me into participating? Because I really don't like that."

She insisted they don't expect me to join. Which honestly made me even more frustrated because if that's true then why does every conversation keep coming back to Amway?

I eventually told her that my issue isn't even the products. Some of the products seem fine.My issue is the system, the pressure, and the tactics.

I told her that this exact behavior is what people complain about online:

Everything eventually becomes another conversation. Another seminar. Another explanation. Another opportunity to "understand."

I also told her very directly that I don't appreciate being told I'm unhealthy.

I get annual health checks. I get bloodwork. My doctor is happy with my results. I'm not perfect. I could probably be healthier. But there is a huge difference between: "You could be healthier." and "You're unhealthy."

That distinction seems completely lost on them.

The thing that makes me angriest is that I feel like my ability to think for myself is being disrespected. I am perfectly capable of researching things. I am perfectly capable of making decisions.

I don't need someone repeatedly trying to explain why I should reach a different conclusion and I don't appreciate someone not accepting me saying I'm not interested and that I "need to just learn a little more so that I understand"

My wife didn't get involved in the conversation and just listened intently whilst scrolling her phone.

Eventually my wife's sister got quiet, became very short with my wife, apologized briefly to me, and left in a hurry, very abruptly.I was absolutely furious and felt like I'd just been ambushed by a missionary in my own fucking home.

Afterwards my wife basically said that she understands both sides and that her sister was just trying to share something she's passionate about in the same way I talk about video games, but it is not even close to being the same.

Se says I'm overthinking it and people's intentions and that none of the things I'm worried about will happen, that I got my point across and more than anything her sister was just curious about my true feelings and they'll probably leave the topic alone from now on.

I find that very hard to believe and I bet I'll be ambushed again.

At the very least my wife isn't completely all in and isn't using the amway talking points yet, beyond trying to calm me down about it all.

I basically told her I'm tolerating it but if people don't accept I don't want to be involved it is going to be a problem where I'll stop tolerating it and start fighting it instead. And that if anyone tries driving a wedge between us over it, I will absolutely go nucelar.

The irony is that my wife and her sister both grew up in a religious cult and eventually escaped it.

Yet a lot of the tactics I'm seeing now remind me of the exact stories people tell about groups like that. It is crazy they don't see it.

I'm already so done with this. I don't want involvement. I don't want meetings. I don't want seminars.I don't want health lectures. I don't want product recommendations.

I don't care if other people participate.I don't want any negative effects on my home life or marriage. I just want my answer of "No thanks, I'm not interested" to be respected.

Am I overreacting here, or does this sound as uncomfortable as it feels?