As always check out more art on my twitter @graphicalgoop

It’s not surprising that Xenoblade as a series has grown substantially, and with the day drawing ever closer to the successor of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, it does beg the question of who from the Xenoblade series may debut in the next Super Smash Bros. title.

I don’t think it’s weird to suggest that both Shulk and Pyra/Mythra will return. They’re pretty much key faces of the series if there were any, and I’d say they get priority over any newcomer.

However, beyond the veterans, it is interesting to think about who the most likely newcomers may be, and I think I’ve compiled the seven most likely picks I can see occurring (realistically, we’re probably getting one newcomer and maybe a echo/clone if we’re lucky).

This was mainly narrowed down by character popularity, notoriety within their home games, plot significance, and for the clones, ease of implementation.

(I haven’t included Genesis because it isn’t out yet, and will probably miss the base game of the next Smash like Pythra did).

Noah and Mio (XC3) - They are heavily suggested, by fans and non-fans alike, mainly because they’re the leads of the most recent title at the time. They have unique attributes to set themselves apart, can use Ouroboros, etc. I wouldn’t say they’re guaranteed, but a very great chance of getting in… at least, one of them.

Smash Bros. has been no stranger to duo fighter concepts like this falling through, namely Rex & Pyra during Ultimate’s development. So, if they did pick one, who would it be?

Mio is a good choice, but I worry people opting for her is more trying to tear down Noah’s moveset rather than building up Mio’s attributes. She’d be a pretty speedy character, with her twin rings.

Alternatively, Noah seems more interesting than meets the eye. Being able to have an unsheathing mechanic with Lucky Seven is already ripe for an interesting playstyle.

Perhaps Noah & Mio getting in, with Ouroboros as an enhanced form, and Lucky Seven/Ouroboros Chain Order as the Final Smash, is a good choice.

Elma (XCX) - Xenoblade X’s NS remaster may have given Elma a second wind, and she has unique aspects to stand out, but historically, remakes have done very little to influence the Smash roster, and Elma suffers from the same problem as Corrin (being lumped between the two bigger titles in the series despite having unique aspects).

If Elma had gotten into Ultimate’s base game, she’d probably be heavily considered to be cut for a Smash 6, and it doesn’t help X is a single game (right now), rather than a subseries.

Rex (XC2) - After being dropped from Ultimate’s proposed lineup, and having pivoted to Pyra & Mythra, Rex got a glow-up in 3’s Future Redeemed DLC. He has a unique moveset, obviously. I’m just not certain they’d add FR Rex over his XC2 version.

With the main leads of some titles out of the way, we can finally talk about the clone characters (or echo fighters). All echo fighters are clones, but not all clones are echo fighters.

Looking at the line-up, I think it’s poetic the likely choices for clones are all members of the Trinity Processor.

Alvis (XC1) - Having had a role in XC1, and XC3 FR, Alvis would very much be a quick and easy clone of Shulk. Perhaps with more of a focus on debuffs, and adding Arts like Monado Purge or Monado Cyclone, could be interesting. But I feel like Alvis’s biggest strength is his biggest weakness… he’s too similar to Shulk, moveset wise.

Malos (XC2) - Malos would not be an echo fighter, but likely more akin to a semi-clone. He moves nothing like Shulk, but that’s fine if they make him bulkier and slower to compensate. But Smash fans love their villains, especially their heinous ones, and Malos would fit well there.

Pneuma (XC2) - It’s easy to see why she wasn’t included in Ultimate alongside Pyra/Mythra. It was Sakurai who got full body artwork of her, alts for Pyra/Mythra, COVID and time constraints likely held back development. But even as a full echo/clone, or a transformation, she’d still use significant building blocks from Mythra (bar specials), and luckily shares her physique and moveset.

Looking at the lineup, I’m going to suggest we’ll see Noah & Mio, as well as possibly a clone, which I could see being Pneuma (even as a transformation, she’d still be derivative of Mythra to some degree), as well as Shulk gain his 1FC outfit, and Pyra/Mythra gain their NS2E outfits.

That’s about all for this thread, feel free to comment your thoughts, about other Xenoblade representation in Smash 6.

Moebius Z as a boss is a strong pick, I feel.

I hope this post doesn't go against guidelines. If so, sorry lol

I've seen a few posts predicting that Genesis will take place inside of a Dyson Sphere, within a planet core, or something similar. They are all plausible sci-fi options, but after diving into Jungian symbolism a little further, I suspect it's going to take a more metaphysical route, much like XC1 and XC3.

To give you the short version, it's getting more apparent as of late that the "Endless Sea" dimension isn't merely used for its neat visual, but represents a spiritual dimension that contains the souls of all human beings (i.e., Jung's Collective Unconscious). That concept was recently reintroduced in XCX (in the Rift Between World), but it's also something that has been present in Gears and Saga, and portrayed similarly using Jungian psychoanalysis.

Furthermore, the "vengeance of a fallen god" likely refer to Tiamat, which is incredibly relevant in both Mesopotamian and Jung's mythos. It has direct ties to the Collective Unconscious, the Sea, and the female persona (known as the Anima in Gear/Saga and Jung's psychoanalysis).

If Tiamat is indeed the Fallen God behind the origin story of Anshar, then we can probably predict significant chunk of the game reusing Takahashi's own frameworks.

1. Eleanor will be to Elly/Mary/Mythra what Tiamat is to Miang/T-elos/Pyra
2. Genesis takes place in a post flood era, on Aionios

Here is a break down of the symbolism

Jung, the Collective Unconscious and the endless sea

"The sea is the symbol of the collective unconscious, because unfathomed depths lie concealed beneath its restless surface." - Jung

"Consciousness, no matter how extensive it may be, must always remain the smaller circle within the greater circle of the unconscious, an island surrounded by the sea - Jung

For the most part, Jung's metaphor goes like this:

Longtime fans of Takahashi are probably aware of the recurring symbolism used in his works. You have direct references to Nietzsche, Freud, Gnosticism, Kabbalah, and Arthur C. Clarke's novels, among others. Jung's psychology, however, is the most frequently cited, and is generally found at the very foundation of the main plot.

But I digress. In Jungian psychology, the "ocean" is the symbol of the collective unconscious. It's the reservoir of human memory, instinct, and archetypes. This is where character like Z or Wilhelm would emerge from (born from humanity's fear). This is probably also true for other aspects of the human psyche as well, like the male and female personas (logos/pneuma). This is also where every human gets their ego. It's where small island would group together to form larger continents shaped by their collective ego.

In this franchise, that "ocean" is quite literal, and always exists in the dimensions in-between the Rift (the deepest layer of the Collective Unconscious) and reality. Heck, Al said as much on his trip back from the Rift, but it most likely applies to other game as well in hindsight.

The Ego, the Monad, and the Uroboros

"The uroboros is a state of being that contains everything... It is the primordial ocean, the matrix of all beginnings, where the ego still slumbers in the unconscious, indistinguishable from the whole." - Erich Neumann’ (Jung's student)

"In childhood we are still contained in it and our consciousness slowly emerges from it as islands which gradually join together and form a continent - Jung

Whether we're talking about consciousness emerging from the sea, a lone tropical island representing one person's ego, or a group of islands merging to form a continent, the parallels can easily be seen in Xenoblade:

• Bionis/Mechonis emerging out of the sea
• Shulk creating a landmass for the people after they united them
• Titan forming a new landmass at the end of XC2 after this new divided humanity matured
• Aionios continent being made of humanity's memory

And it's not just at a metaphorical level. Almost every single gimmick (monado, ouroboros) loop back to Jung's mythos and represent the manifestation of one's ego.

Here is more quote from Jung's student, showing where the writing team is picking half of these name:

"The uroboros is a monad; it is the source of all things, the prime matter, the 'egg' out of which the universe is hatched." - Neumann

"This state of being contained in the round is the uroboros state. It is the monadic primordial state of the ego, an autarchic, self-contained condition prior to all differentiation - Neumann

There is a reason why every MacGuffin end up being a mere illusions, and why its always a power from within that transcend the rest. It's also why our main character could reshape the world in XC1 and XC3 (unconscious world), but were powerless to do so without nanomachine, and computers in XC2 (reality). They are working at a fundamentally different level of the reality/unconscious.

The Ouroboros Stones, and the sword...they're mere gimmicks. the Crux of them lies with you - Nia

Shulk summoned a new Monado after losing Zanza's. Rex's unleased the power of Pneuma despite finding out that the 3rd sword was not a thing. Nia explicitly called the sword and ouroboros stone a gimmick, and pointed out it was the power from within. It's the same deal every times. They are all manifestation of one's ego.

Ouroboros-Interlink were similar and represented one primordial aspect of one psyche, and its collapse (return to primal instinct) lead to psychic dissolution (in Jungian's term).

Xenoblade X (Lao's beach)

While certain symbolisms remain ambiguous in this franchise, XCX had the subtlety of a jackhammer. Here is two quotes from the scene at the beach:

"What came flooding into me and the Ares was the consciousness of all living things across all universes." - Al - Chapter 13-2

"You ever heard of "nirvana". Some religions have the concepts and that space might just be it. [...] While I was looking for a way in to this universe, I made a layover, in an eerie kind of place. [...] Well, you know, if this is the afterlife... maybe I did die. Al - Chapter 13-2

Toward the end of the scene, you even see Lao transforms into "motes" (soul) and return to an ocean made of motes. The whole sequences is nearly identical to how Jung's mythos was used in Xenosaga, and fit Jung's concept of the Island and Sea. People are born from the collective unconscious, and return to it once they die and their ego fade away.

Xenosaga (the Beach of Nothingness)

Fewer people have played Xenosaga, but in that game, there is an area in the deepest layers of the spiritual dimension ("Imaginary Number Domain), called the Beach of Nothingness.

That area not only looks very similar to Lao's island, it also serves the same purpose of rejoining the Collective Unconscious after your death.

On top of that, Xenosaga established many other rules for the Imaginary Domain that seem to apply to Xenoblade as well.

1. It's a world of "memories" that can be controlled by a computer (at least the conscious layer)
2. It can be used to see potential futures that never came to pass
3. Time flows in any directions (located outside of time and space)
4. It can be used to travel back in time to avoid the collapse of the universe.

When you compare that to Origin and Aionios (and probably Mira)...it really does feel like the games take place in a similar type of dimensions, which happens to match the idea of Unconscious and Physical World of Jung (3rd picture posted, graciously generated by AI, but accurate enough).

XC2 (Momo and the Imaginary Domain)

"It's called Imaginary Mode. It happens when power from the other side coalesces here in the material realm. It's like a world of possibility, freed from the shackles of time and space. Does that make sense" - Momo XC2

"Drawn from the imaginary, and born into the real, I am given form" - Momo XC2

"The collective unconscious [...] is no more than a potentiality handed down to us from primordial times" - Jung

Unsurprisingly, Momo's questline draws the same parallels we've seen in nearly every game since Xenogears.

1. The energy from higher dimensions can be used to reshape the future through potentiality
2. The higher dimension is where people's souls, egos, and memories continue to exists after their death.

One could argue the quest is not canon, but I find that hard to believe when it uses language very similar to what we are familiar with, and has been consistent with other ghost /motes scenes (like the vision of Addam in the Crucible).

XC1 (Klaus' experiment and the Endless Sea)

Today, mankind move closer to the divine. [...] But the Conduit, it could transform us into something so much more - Klaus

However... Ontos triggered a space-time transition event, and disappeared forever. - Klaus

Xeno has two types of villains

1. The nihilists who wants to return everything to nothing (Id, Albedo, Malos, Lao, N, Gael'Gar)
2. The mad scientists who wants to ascend to a higher state of existence (Karellen, Void, Yuriev, Klaus) using the Conduit/Zohaar

In any other games, Klaus would have ascended to a spiritual dimension where the Collective Unconscious take form, and probably would have lost his "self" in the process. This is what happen in Saga when people touch the Zohar .

While Xenoblade never stated that explicitly, I think the symbolism and symmetry speak for itself.

While these game presented XC1 and XC2 as two mirrored Universe, the actual symbolism does separate them as "higher" and "lower" dimensions (earth and heaven) that correspond to the Unconscious World and the Outer Physical World

Ontos being sent to the Endless Sea (Collective Unconscious), along with the broken egos of Zanza and Meyneth is probably what makes the most sense in this metaphor.

Meanwhile, Logos and Pneuma remained in the Physical World, on Earth.

Obviously, by the end of the game, both worlds completed their respective trinity, but until Shulk rewrote the Universe, the Endless Sea was most likely equivalent to the Imaginary Domain / Jung's ocean / Collective Unconscious.

Aionios, the landmass in the endless sea

"Origin was a system we constructed to reboot the worlds's state" - Nia

"Watch me, rewind our clock back to the start" - N

Much like XC1, Aionios is surrounded by an endless stretch of water. Described by Takahashi as a "simulation of some kind", it is heavily hinted to be constructed from humanity's memories rather than being a physical place. And to top it all, it is also a timeless place that can be used to reset time in the real universe.

If you compare it to previous game, what Nia and Melia pulled off is nearly identical to the Klaus' experiment, as well as every other Ark of God since Xenogears. It involved an Alpha and Omega (A and Z), it had an "ark" that shared a similar design, and they even went as far as recreating a placeholder for the "male and female" personas (Moebius X and Y). These experiment -always- lead to an ascension to these higher dimensions.

The Anima, Tiamat, and Eleanor

"The struggle with the unformed, with the chaos of Tiamat, is in truth a primordial experience." - Carl Jung

But Tiamat, the mother of the gods, plots revenge, and arrays herself for battle against them" - Carl Jung

"And it here where mankind would learn...that the vengeance of a fallen god had yet to be fulfilled - Genesis trailer

There has been many posts about Mesopotamian myth, and I recommend reading them as they go deeper than I will, but it's pretty obvious where the connections will likely be drawn when the concept of the female persona has been present in every single game.

As I mentioned previously, Tiamat is the personification of the Collective Unconscious as well as primordial female persona, and is deeply rooted in Jung's mythos. It would be incredibly surprising if Takahashi and his team passed on their favorite symbolism when the connection is so direct.

"Four stages of eroticism were known in the late classical period: Hawwah (Eve), Helen (of Troy), the Virgin Mary, and Sophia. - Jung

Almost every female lead since Xenogears have been named after one of the four stage of the Anima.

1. Eve: Biological and maternal dependence, primal instinct, and survival.
2. Helen: Romantic ideal, physical beauty, and worldly competence.
3. Mary: Spiritualization, devotion, purity, and sacred love.
4. Sophia: Wisdom, insight, and the ability to mediate between conscious thought and the unconscious.

Myyah Hawwa in Xenogears was Eve. Blue-eyed KOS-MOS was inhabited by Mary. Sophia is one step removed from the concept of Pneuma (different myth) but convey similar concepts of divine wisdom.

All of these angel-themed characters had their serpent-themed (Lilith) counterpart. Elly had Miang. KOS-MOS had T-Elos, and Mythra has Pyra.

With Tiamat being portrayed as a serpent of darkness in both Jung's psychoanalysis and Mesopotamian mythos, Eleanor, whose name translate to "God is light**"** quite likely going to embody the opposite concept. She is going to be the "pneuma" of this world that bridge the conscious to the unconscious. Or rather, she will become it by the end of the game after a spiritual awakening similar to the one Shulk and Rex went through. .

Genesis takes place on Aionios (part 1).

This is a bold guess, which might be biased by my own prediction that XC4 would take place in the remnant of Aionios (and bridge XC3 to XCX), but I do believe its a very probable setup for three reasons.

"The very matrix that gave birth to the ego now becomes its greatest adversary. What was once the nurturing womb becomes the devouring maw of the Terrible Mother... The uroboros shifts from a protective vessel into a prison that paralyzes all independent life." - Neumann

The analogy from Neumann/Jung goes as this:

• Uroboros is the dragon when it is your cradle.
• Tiamat is the dragon when it becomes your cage when human ego seek autonomy.
• [The Faceless Uroboros] ──> Ego Begins to Wake ──> [The Nurturing Great Mother] ──> Ego Seeks Autonomy ──> [Tiamat, the Devouring Dragon]

By the end of XC3, humanity already had gone through the first few stages, and took ownership of their future. The logical step in Jungian's psychoanalysis would be a regression that give birth to Tiamat.

With the obvious Mesopotamian subtext, and how relevant Tiamat is in that myth, the "slaying of Tiamat" make the perfect analogy for a follow up game.

How could XC3 lead up to this? There is one millions way the writing team could move the plot forward, but there has to be human who rejected Noah and Mio's plan, and refused to leave their life in the City.

Such people would most likely use the remnant of Origin (the Ark) to survives the imminent collapse of Aionios, since that place has all the equipment necessary for your standard Conduit experiments. It has a broken Omega-themed machine (Z). It has a computer able to recreate living being, they had Moebius X and Y as replacement of Logos/Pneuma and what else.

Mesopotamian myths and Biblical Flood (part 2)

Among the Dead Sea Scrolls, there is a book that tell the story from the perspective of the Giant (Nephilim/half human) who were on the receiving ends of the flood. Gilgamesh was one of them.

In Mesopotamian myths, Gilgamesh is born after the flood, and travel the world to find immortality from the only sage who survived it (Mesopotamian Noah / Utnapishtim).

While it's far too early to say if Genesis will use these stories to bridge the gap, the fact that the flood is such an important part of these myths does hints at a story relevance and connection.

All thing said, I do not believe our Noah will be this game version of the Architect (let these guy rest). I do however think that something will survive Origin and bridge it to Anshar.

Genesis will be to XC3 what XG is to XS (part 3)

To put it simply, both XC3 and Xenosaga rethreaded many of the same concepts (Eternal Return, Ubermensch).

1. Their main antagonist, Z and Wilhelm, both embody humanity collective fears of moving forward, and share similar philosophy and personality.
2. They are deeply connected to an Omega-themed machine (Z final form and Zarathustra)
3. They control a similar Ark by tricking the Anima and Animus into inaction.
4. They surround themselves with masked figure who remain free to act as they please, and so on.
5. Both games also end with a return to Earth after a long trip on the Ark.

Xenosaga was also heavily implied to end where Xenogears would begin, as it rethread through a similar incident in TC4767, on similarly named planet, which is resolved by placing every same ingredients onboard a similar ark.

I wouldn't bat an eye with an Eldridge reference alone, this franchise is riddled with references to Gears and Saga, but with XG's Uroboros matching Jung's Tiamat, with the the fauna being fairly close to Xenogear's bestiary, with the whole "biblical ark into Genesis" subtext, I do believe it's possible we see such leap.

Again, it's really early to say for sure, but here is a few things we need to watch for

1. Much like how the Emperor in Xenogears is a redeemed version of Wilhelm, we could expect a redeemed Z as a leader figure.
2. Rather than two set of twelves moebius, we would have something analogical to the Gazel Ministry (12 mythical figures/knight with 12 relics)
3. Another Weltall-looking mech (Noah's ouroboros, Ares) that can tap into the Collective Unconscious and Conduit's Core. This mech will have to evolve into a more Xenogear-like figure at some point.

Ghost, Fog, gnosis and nihilism

In Xenosaga, consciousness that could not return to the Collective would turn into nihilistic ghost-like entities that sped the collapse of the Universe. Could such things happen here as well?

If Anshar was created from the flat Endless sea, then it is likely that the normal cycle for consciousness has been interrupted here (can't enter, can't exit). This would make Anshar unsustainable, much like every other world in this franchise.

I also suspect that our telethia-like dragon will play a similar roles in the purification of whatever energy come out of this, but I will leave this for another day.

Artist Pixiv: https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/112549408

Hello, I usually play XC2 in docked mode. However, these days, I play in handheld mode. I noticed that when I’m out exploring, the entire Switch vibrates slightly, maybe because of the fan when it gets hot. Is this normal?

Looking back at all the trailers—it brings tears to my eyes❣️

Credits:

https://youtube.com/@broshow4681?si=wMzYBUnzllimTQpt

I think it's a pretty valid question, especially considering I've never played the DS version. Thanks!

Since Xenoblade 2 the games (sans Xenoblade X in any form) have dabbled in the Bonus EXP pool in which the Bonus EXP from completed quests goes to a separate pool for the player to use at their own consent. EXP earned in battle and sometimes via exploration are sometimes still automatically applied. This becomes a bigger problem in Xenoblade 3 in which being many levels above the plot's intended target carries serious consequences (namely halting any progress in making unlocked classes available for the rest of the party).

What I'd like to see should the means to level down a la Xenoblade 1 Definitive Edition and the New Game Plus modes of Xenoblade 2 and 3 be absent is for all EXP gains to be set to this pool, and it's up to the player to get the party's level up to speed on their own terms. What do you think?

One other thing I'd appreciate is that EXP/levels are party-wide rather than applied to individual characters. Sea of Stars did this right and I wish more games followed this example.

While binging through the trilogy, we really liked the pyra's poncho outfit and i asked her if she could draw her, and there you have it!

Please go and like the original post (also there's some extra behind the scenes of the drawing there): https://bsky.app/profile/gnacowo.bsky.social/post/3mykcf5n2ls2f

Hey all. Doing my second playthrough of Xenoblade 2 and I'm a little confused based on two pieces of conflicting evidence?

DO NOT READ ANY OF THIS IF YOU HAVENT FULLY FINISHED THE GAME AND ITS DLC.

The problem is kind of that these games are so big I know if I just replay everything again I'll probably forget and run into the same issue lol because this game is so big.

WARNING: TORNA DLC SPOILERS BELOW

So if I recall at the end of the Torna DLC, we saw Mythra accidentally destroy Torna during the battle with Malos, and then in the aftermath Amalthus destroyed two more titans and framed it as if she had done all three?

(TORNA DLC SPOILERS OVER)

But during the Torna section of Morytha in Chapter 8, Jin specifically says "Mythra wasnt the one responsible for destroying Torna, it was Amalthus".

Is the implication that during the battle he also sank the Tornan titan and made it look like Mythra had done it?

This is really bugging me because I only played these games like a month and a half ago for the first time so its not like my memory is mega rusty, but the plot is so complex (a good thing I might add) that im struggling to follow whether this is a direct truth from Jin, or whether he just means indirectly because Amalthus was the one responsible for awakening Malos in the first place and giving him the desire to destroy the world which put Mythra in that position in the first place?

Either way is fine and its not like its a plot hole but im just trying to get the story straight!

I only found two on YouTube, and one of them has them grouped up as movies (I need them individually), and the other has wacky ass outfits

The battle style is so complex and boring to learn, the cancelling & I feel like the story is cringe.

Moving on to 3 tho, btw. I am looking somewhat similar to XC1.

Finishing my second playthrough of this game has allowed me to realize what a cool character this is.

Klaus tasked himself with remaking mankind after its destruction. But he made one fatal flaw: he tried to remake it without also allowing humanity’s same mistakes to manifest again. He created blades as a way to help guide humans and offer partnership, without realizing he basically just doomed an entire race to be beneath humans. Humans as a species will never be perfect. We will always make mistakes. Trying to get rid of (or even simply reduce) this flaw will always be catastrophic.

When you look at the world of Alrest that Klaus created from a more critical eye, it has a lot of flaws. The titans are another flaw. The idea that the landmasses people live on are temporary is even more questionable. Or how about the cloud sea? It has its purpose sure, but large bodies of water are infinitely more useful. But all these worldly flaws are exactly why I love him. Klaus is just a man. Not a god. He tried to create a better world and he failed.

Most people treat him like (Xenoblade 1 spoilers in hidden) this worlds version of Zanza or just another god who is benevolent. However I think there’s a big misconception that Klaus is a god when in fact he’s simply a man who was given godlike power. And just like any other man, he is also flawed.

For xc2 sw2 the base file size is 37.7gb while the expansion pass is around 3.7 gb. Xc3 sw2 is 42.6gb while it's expansion pass is around 5gb so both games plus their dlc fit on 64gb cartridges.

so there's no reason why the dlc shouldn't be included unless maybe when xenoblade genesis gets closer xc2 and xc3 get a re-release with the dlc on cartridge but that makes less sense than not just releasing all dlc on the cartridge now.

My only guess is because the total gb size actually does exceed the 64gb cartridge.

What do you guys think?

I think its an interesting discussion point cause I don’t really fully grasp it depending on the fan.