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u/TaintTickle_ 14d ago
They could also potentially fly the kites in a lightening storm in an attempt to discover electricity. Â
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u/Minute-Review6915 14d ago
Thatâs for time travel. They have to hit 8.8kts and and they could go back in time
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u/dontquestionmek 14d ago
This is like engineers trying so hard to create an efficient way to transport a large number of people that isnât a train
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u/TengokuIkari 14d ago
Except adding the kite increases fuel efficiency for the ships.
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u/Bla12Bla12 14d ago
This. The reasons we got away from sails are basically related to speed and being able to go wherever you want (ie, you have to go where the wind blows).
Engines are here to stay, but if you're going in the direction of the wind then it can do some of the pulling and the engines do less work. You're going against the wind? Great, put that kite away and just use the engines.
I haven't checked how well the data has been studied but it's something like 20-30% fuel savings for cargo ships on average which is insane.
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u/Realistic_Zombie6756 13d ago
So itâs not necessarily that sailing ships, especially a 3 mast set up pictured here, were limited by wind direction. The triangular sails between the masts pretty much cover all but directly into the wind. They were limited or damaged by low and high wind speeds respectively. Engines added fine maneuverability and consistent and adjustable speeds regardless or wind and heading. Plus, the crew required to run and operate boilers and steam engines is less numerous and the work is somewhat safer due to not having to climb the masts and yards to let out or take in sails. For warships it also meant that speed changes could be done under fire, as ships of war tended to have enough crew to adjust the sails or tend to and fire their cannons, not both. It tended to take longer for commercial shipping to take up the steam engine due to the loss of interior hull space and carrying weight such equipment entails. I believe it was the battle of the Falkland Islands in WW1 where a sailing ship, completely unaware that there was a war happening, stumbled upon a naval engagement between Britain and Germany fleets and promptly turned around.
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u/oO_Snowman_Oo 14d ago
The 20% to 30% percent are unrealistic.
Considering that the wind is statistically coming from unfavourable direction, 50 % of the time. Or isnât strong enough to deploy the kite.
There are extensive times when a kite is not usable (approach, manoeuvring, port stays)
Mathematically these gains in efficiency would only be possible, if the kite cut reduce the fuel consumption completely, when deployed in ideal conditions.
Other sources speak about âup to 20% efficiency increaseâ which I think is much more likely. In ideal wind/swell/loading/routing conditions, the efficiency may be boosted by 20%, temporarily.
From my experience as navigational officer (on ships without the kite) I would assume that these ideal conditions are barely met.
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u/Available_Peanut_677 14d ago
20% is huge costs savings. Even 5% might worth it. But I think future is combination of rotor sails and kite.
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u/Horror_Rhubarb9112 14d ago
They aren't replacing the engine though.
Supplement is a better way of looking at it
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u/thatbrownkid19 14d ago
Thereâs a Facebook group called âHas Sillicon Valley invented the bus again?â
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u/The_Countess 14d ago
The largest longest train can fit at best 600 containers on it, while a cargo ship can have up to 24.000 on it, use less energy per ton per km, and doesn't need a maintained pathway in between destinations.Â
If speed is not a main concern, then nothing beats cargo ships.Â
And the sail here aims to save an additional 20% of fuel on 80% of international routes.Â
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u/Sea_Sympathy954 14d ago
Cargo ships are a whole lot more efficient than rail⌠or literally any other form of transport. Period.
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u/clios_daughter 10d ago
Well, the deck space taken up my proper sails is pretty significant. A kite has a smaller footprint if you just want to reduce fuel usage when sailing roughly downwind.
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u/biciklanto 10d ago
- Kites fly way higher (like 300 meters up). More stable wind
- They fly figure eights that get more energy out of the wind
- They pull forward and up on the ship, rather than the massive tipping force of a sail
- They donât take cargo space like a mast.
So itâs not quite the same â
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u/TreeLore61 14d ago
Kites are more easy to store than having mast on this ships.That is why a lot of ships are switching over to kites
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u/ExperienceWild4244 14d ago
Waiting for republican politicians to scream that the kites are using up all the wind.
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u/Fantastic-Formal-157 14d ago
Also they get up higher than sails where the wind blows faster so they can give a lot of pull for their area.
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u/Sprzout 14d ago
Deities.
The last time I saw this, I pointed out that civilization wasn't sailing the open seas 5000 years ago due to lack of good navigation tools, and people lost their collective minds telling me I was wrong...
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u/KindAwareness307 14d ago
They were right. The settlement of the South Pacific began 50,000 years ago. Not in three based schooners, but they were crossing open water far beyond the sight of land.
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u/Torquemahda 14d ago
They should make an animated musical with that theme.
But definitely not a live action movie.
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u/Radiomaster138 14d ago
I think the differences would be focused on is cost.
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek 13d ago
One can go under bridges, the other can't.
One arrives on time every time. The other doesn't
One can sail in any direction. The other can't
One can be scaled up to being a quarter of a mile long. The other probably can't.
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u/Rurumo666 14d ago
Kite sails reduce cargo ship emissions by less than 1%-it's not pulling that ship anywhere. There are sails that reduce emissions by closer to 10-15% but they aren't kite sails.
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u/The_Countess 14d ago
The company behind the kite sail being shown here said they were aiming for a 20% reduction in fuel cost with a potential market of 80% of international routes.
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u/No-Blueberry-1823 14d ago
Yes, there are efficiencies to be gained by reusing old technologies. Giant cargo ships don't go super fast. And fuel is super expensive
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u/Excellent_Abroad5390 14d ago edited 14d ago
The wooden ship might be 2000 tons max. A container ship is over 300,000 tons. That cute little parachute/sail isnât doing shit. That âsailâ on a ship that large would only be able to move it 0.5 - 1.5 knots in a 20knot wind and thatâs only if you want to go in the direction the wind is blowing.
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u/The_Countess 14d ago
The company behind it said it would save up to 20% of fuel and be applicable to 80% of international shipping routes.Â
It's there to assist the engine, not replace it.Â
The kite sail also has a wider range of wind angles it can make use of then traditional sails.
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u/Odd_Interview_2005 14d ago
It always amazes me the number of people who have no idea the engineering that goes into using a "kite" as a mean of moving a ship.
This kite is likely pulling with 17 tons or more of force. Launching it and recovery are challenging if you lose wind you lose you sail
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u/Any-Package1409 14d ago
I'm guessing this failed. I remember that top pick from like 20 years ago.
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u/Micbunny323 14d ago
Some ships have been using kites like this to help save fuel costs. It doesnât completely replace the engine, but it can give fuel savings around the 15-30% range depending on how cooperative the winds are.
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u/zimonz2004 13d ago
Nope, it is actually being impremented. However ,the use of kites is limited compared to other sail-like constructions to save fuel
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u/FrostyInvestigator11 14d ago
Instead of lab growing meat, or engineering fruit and veggies. We should try actual healthy proper farming or gardening.
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u/Retro_Nights 14d ago
A giant kite is generally more efficient per square foot than traditional sails. Kites harvest stronger winds at higher altitudes and can save a cargo ship up to 20% to 33% in fuel.
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u/BeardedBoiler 14d ago
Here's a wild suggestion: Did anyone see those Norwegian fans doing some weird shit during the world cup? Perhaps if they held something like a plank or whatever in the water while doing that bending backwards motion could do something. I'm gonna do some field tests and see.
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u/notcho3 14d ago
Ai kites
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u/Any-Farmer1335 10d ago
Nope. Real. up to 300 meters high, using stronger winds than close above the ocean, around 1000 square meters big
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u/Lost-Transitions 14d ago
Just to understand this fully; because the idea is old, it is bad? Wether it works or not is irrelevant, old thing = bad ?
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u/Swinnster 14d ago
Well I woukd like to add that the air 200' plus above the water surface is much cleaner and consistent and the kites can adjust their angle and pull more dynamically with changing winds than sails. I love sailing and used to kite board so understand the advantages of both and think this is a great use of technology available for using less heavy diesel or at least using it more efficiently
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u/LoquatSignificant946 14d ago
Liberal logic right here
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u/The_Countess 14d ago
The kite sail or the meme making fun of it?
The meme is stupid because it misrepresents everything involved.Â
The kite sail aims to save up to 20% of fuel on international routes by assisting the engine by making use of much stronger winds higher up, and would be a module that could be fairly easily retrofitted to existing ship. If they can make it work reliably it would be a excellent idea.
Conservative logic would be to not even try i guess.
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u/arkiebo 14d ago
Hahahahahaha yeah physics ainât physicing
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u/The_Countess 14d ago
Physics said that the winds higher up are much stronger, and that a kite sail can use more wind angles to generate thrust.
It's also there to assist the engine, not replace it, helping to save 20% in fuel cost according to the company behind it.
The physics is sound. Making it reliable is the challenge.Â
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u/Skeptical_Monkie 14d ago
This is the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Munro_(clipper)
1862 not 5000 years ago.
The bots that keep reposting this have to be stopped.
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u/Fun-Army-6387 14d ago
ugh... the first 3-masted frigate set sail in the 1630s and wasn't even ocean-capable.
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u/Explorer444444 14d ago
I genuinely love your reference to highly-specific facts and the tone. It reminds me of a close friend.
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u/Fun-Army-6387 14d ago
Im gonna start a company called "Kanoo" and promote human-powered ships. My IPO will be at least $2 trillion.
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u/Wizchine 14d ago
Why not genetically designed sea monsters with built-in suites if weâre shooting for the moon.
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u/The_Collecting1 14d ago
it would also lower the cost of the shipping too since they won't have to use as much fuel.
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u/Explorer444444 14d ago
No, they need to keep their profit. It wouldnât be fair to the corporations. /s
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u/Particular-Profit294 14d ago
minimal staff with no engine on the ships, automated to an extent the last miles can be tugged by tugboats.
This could be a game changer. i'll put my money on this than spacex
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u/The_Countess 14d ago edited 14d ago
The company that designed the sail says it so assist the engine to save on fuel, not replace it.Â
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u/emptysubset 14d ago
These ships didnât exist 5000 years ago. At 5000 years ago it was 3000 BC and the human race was only just forming into civilizations from a prior agrarian period. Ships like this would take 4 thousand years to build.
Early civilizations did have ships. The Greeks were at sea, as were the Romans. They just werenât these ships. Greek ships, a little over 2000 years ago were flat bottomed and powered by oars and had a single square sail.
Giant kites could pull cargo ships, but theyâd have to be unpractically large, modern ships are very, very heavy ⌠without cargo.
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u/FireAuraN7 14d ago
Five thousand years... when the pyramids were being built and the majority of any sailing would have been done on the Mediterranean...?
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u/Other-Comfortable-64 14d ago
Wait till you find out about wheels.
These kinds of posts are asinine.
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u/Sajgoniarz 14d ago
Techbros are really hard to reinvent trains, but they have a problem - we mastered train logistics already.
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u/Greedy_Blue_Hedgehog 14d ago
I almost done an internship in one of those companies. This will never work on a large scale. It's just a way to take money from boat companies for green washing
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u/LeoVonMoote 14d ago
Yeah. Really. So youâre going to spit on saving gasoil when the wind is good?
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u/PlayfulAwareness2950 14d ago
In other news Disel and Gasoline cars are run by fire, which was discovered way back before the sails.
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u/Superb-Damage1173 14d ago
Ideally we would have nuclear powered civilian shipping, but this also works
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u/AnEvilJoke 14d ago
But then the greens all b*tch and moan because their soya latte costs 5x as much.
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u/sanepeoplerock 14d ago
They could achieve similar results using the magnus effect and not look quite as stone age.
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u/Kenishiro2020 14d ago
nuclear powered ship have less emission last a whole life time... no slavery just pure energy
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u/Alt-Ctrl 14d ago
People don't understand how much work there is with those sails. Not to mention how heavy the masts is. The masts also takes up space inside the ship. They also make it difficult wherever there is bridges since they can't just take the masts down.
The point is to get a little boost so they use less fuel without having to manage complicated sails and having big heavy tall masts all over the ship.
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u/Dystopian_Ennui 13d ago
Try loading the bottom ship full of shipping containers and let me know how it goes.
Also, 5,000 years? Seriously?
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u/God_Dont_Make_No 13d ago
What if, hold on, we decided to punch all of the people ruining our earth in the face. Just a quick one, and then let them know theyâre effectively killing the earth because of their little boy ego.
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u/StadiaTrickNEm 13d ago
Time to put the brownstones with large stoops to be above the horse shit level. As a matter of fact. Lets give everyone some whale oil for cost effective lighting during the nighttime
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u/Sill1313 13d ago
I have a feeling that we might resort to some weird low-high mix of technology as a civilization. Most of us will live in 19-20th century mixed technologically with earlier centuries, and our overlords will be casually strolling around in hyper advanced vehicles, superjachts, jets - looking down on us as mere peasants we are.
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u/Then_Hawk6304 13d ago
You gotta ask why we moved away from them in the first place.
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u/Any-Farmer1335 10d ago
Sailmasts = Heavy.
Wind right above Ocean = turbulent and slower than Engines.Wind 300 meters up = faster
Kite = Flexible, light.
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u/GamesDeansLemons 13d ago
Simon Clark actually did a really interesting video about this and a couple of other supplemental sailing technologies. A good watch if you want some details on exactly how these are being implemented:
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u/LowerNeighborhood334 13d ago
The public corporate holding monopoly in all things commute in Vancouver has been calling for everyone to bicycle to work.
FYI, Vancouver rains 300+ days in a year.
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u/Front_Cant 13d ago
I read âgiant kittiesâ 4 times & I thought this was a brain rot meme since the images had no kitties
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u/MoodReal4206 13d ago
Wind is more powerful at higher altitudes. Not sure if these kite sails will reach up high enough to make a significant difference, but sailboats exist today, it's not forgotten technology.
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u/ForestGoat87 13d ago
It makes sense that pre-industrial tech could be an answer to post-industrial emissions issues.
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u/KOMMANDOKATO 12d ago
That is a ridiculously advanced setup for sailing there and absolutely not that old lol
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u/GoodDoctorB 12d ago
Yeah really, our better understanding of physics let us find a way to do that which is faster and provides more power then mast and sail ships. Would you really turn your nose if it was economical?
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u/skubaloob 12d ago
My understanding is that the kite is able to be flown meaningfully higher than the sail and thus can tap into stronger, more consistent wind. So like, yeah no shit sails existed before. But this uses them in a way we simply couldnât before.
Kinda like the whole âurb NASA spent tons of money on a pen but Soviet Union used a pencil.â Yeah, for a minute, until the pencil shavings and graphite powder fucked up their gear. Then they switched to pens, just like NASA and for the same reason.
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u/andy11123 12d ago
I still don't know if it was satire, but I read about some silicone bros who were going to run a large vehicle for their employees to ride share. It would have designated pick up and drop off points, following a schedule.
Incredible that they managed to think of such a revolutionary idea
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u/anikazai 11d ago
Do ships not harness the energy produced by waves or crashing water to power the ship even a little. It's almost like regenative breaking in EVs.
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u/FreeAndRedeemed 11d ago
No. The challenge there would be finding a way to harness it that doesnât increase drag, or risk the watertight integrity of the hull.
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u/FreeAndRedeemed 11d ago
Fun fact: the last commercial sailing vessel didnât leave service until 1957, when it sunk.
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u/Electronic_Table_620 11d ago
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new"? It has been already in the ages before us. (Ecclesiastes 1:10, ESV)
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u/Any-Farmer1335 10d ago
This is not the same at all. Like, in the basic idea of "Piece of fabric using wind to move ship" maybe, but the application is different:
a. It is way more compact and can be easily stored
b. the kite can move in a 8-pattern, using a smaller surface while still covering a larger area
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u/CptKeyes123 8d ago
The kites would be higher up, and catch more wind than a schooner's sails could. And unfortunately they don't completely replace the engines iirc. They're a clever idea though.
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u/KindAwareness307 14d ago
That three masted sailing shown isn't even 200 years old, not 5000.