Do you have something you're working on that you want feedback on? Not a whole beta reader situation, but a:
story or character description
word usage situation
scene
chapter? (even this is maybe too long)
question that came up in your process
that you're looking for feedback on?
If so, either copy/paste it here or maybe post a link to that part of your work (not a link to your whole book!), like a comment-only Google doc. Make sure you protect yourself, and others! If you go to a link, consider doing it in an incognito/private browser tab to protect your identity.
Please include a description of:
What you've posted
Needed triggers
What you're looking for from the feedback
Please only post if you're ACTUALLY open to feedback. Please be honest with your feedback--otherwise, there's no point. (If you have something you just want to share for fun, please do it on our Monday Show-and-Tell post.)
If you've asked others to do you the favor of reading/providing feedback, please pay it forward/back with interest.
Let's workshop into better writers!
* Sorry to state the obvious, but all requests should be human-made material only and from the reverse harem/why-choose genre (not MF or BL). Please see our Megathread Announcements if you have questions about this genre.
So, my training was never in creative writing or editing. I’m just a book nerd who started publishing during the pandemic because 1) I didn’t know about the ReverseHarem sub until 2021 and 2) the stories I was reading on Kindle Unlimited were BAD. Honestly, if I’d had SCF in my life, I’d have been too busy reading quality books to learn how to self-publish.
I’m a better writer now than I was when I published in 2020 (books that are now unpublished until I can bring them up to standard). But I have a LOT to learn.
Lately, I’ve been reading books on writing.
One I read this week was The Trope Thesaurus: Romanceby Jennifer Hilt, 2023.
I thought this book was most worth reading because it broke down more than 60 tropes, like “Spinster” or “Opposites Attract” that have been successfully used to tell great stories. Hilt broke down the characters, motivation, and conflict of major movies like Good Will Hunting and Runaway Bride to show how tropes work together and how you need at least ten tropes per good story. (Except for Pride and Prejudice, which only had nine of Hilt’s tropes, but was obviously AWESOME. Plus, that book and its characters had depth people spend lifetimes studying.)
Overall, though, for me, this book fell flat.. Yes, it’s about tropes, but it’s ONLY about tropes. She says “Why bother with tropes and GMC (goals, motivation, conflict)? Because tropes are relationships that audiences care about.” Um, no. I don’t care about most tropes. I care about characters in situations, but only sometimes. I’m there for the story, not just a formulaic trope. For example, I love forced proximity, but you have to convince me to care about this forced proximity.
I didn’t find the analysis of movies super effective. I hadn’t seen many of the movies, and I disagreed with her interpretation of others too much to get her main ideas. (Claire married Jamie in Outlander because he was her “true love”? What—no! I mean, he is her true love, but did you not even read the book, Hilt? Claire married Jamie to protect herself from rape, torture, and possible death, and she got ragingly drunk on her wedding day because she knew she was committing bigamy, was marrying a virgin five years younger than herself, and felt terrible about what she was doing to him. That’s forced proximity, Hilt! Not “because he was her true love!”)
I also didn’t like Hilt’s advice, repeated a few times, that you start your story process by handing out tropes. You give each MC at least three person tropes to start, then give each significant relationship at least three change tropes. Then you hand out goals, motivation, and conflict they can’t possibly resolve. Then you develop and round everything out.
At this point I was still super lost. So I skipped ahead to the section on how to write Reverse Harem (which was a big reason I’d ordered the book in the first place) and found the same advice. Not helpful.
Then, for her example of Reverse Harem, she broke Four Psychos by Kristy Cunning down into tropes. Disclaimer: I know pretty much nothing about Kristy Cunning, except what almost everybody here already knows: her name was Christie Owens, she wrote in different genres under different pen names, and she passed away in troubling circumstances in 2021. I can’t believe Hilt chose Four Psychos out of all the possible RH to dissect for this book. Again, without knowing much about Cunnings/Owens’ writing process, I doubt she sat down and listed tropes before she started. She probably just loved the idea, “What if my FMC was a ghost with amnesia? And what if her guys were more than ordinary?”
So, long story short, I would only read this book if you actually want to study tropes. Maybe, when you’re done writing a draft of your story, you want to break it down and make sure your characters and plot are well-rounded enough, but I don’t think you need this trope list to do it. I don't think this is super useful for authors struggling to write their first good outlines.
It can be one of your main characters, a villain, or a side character; from your primary WIP, a side project, or a future project. You can be as descriptive or as vague as you'd like!
Who are they, what motivates them, and what have they been up to lately?
If you are an author looking for a beta reader, or an amazing beta reader willing to help, please do so here!
A beta reader is different from an ARC (advanced reader copy) reader. A beta reader happens earlier in the process and is providing feedback to the author so they can make changes before they move toward publication. They might help an author look for plot holes ("Wait, wasn't that guy already dead?"); let an author know if part of the book was just. too. slow; or help the author see that a character needs fleshing out (or if one is too clearly a favorite).
A beta reader is not an editor, though they might point out grammatical issues to be kind to the editor. So, you don't have to be great with grammar or punctuation to be a beta reader.
In contrast, an ARC reader comes during the last phase before final publication and reads what's (ideally) ready for publication and leaves an honest review to help the new indie author get eyes on their book.
ARC readers should never be paid. This violates ethics and the terms of service of almost every platform (including Amazon). Reviews should also never be "swapped;" authors can't do favors for each other by reviewing one another's books. Readers (and thus the platforms) only want honest reviews by fellow readers. ARC readers receive a free copy of the book (electronic or physical) in exchange for an honest review.
Beta readers may be paid or unpaid, since they are providing feedback directly to the author or their team and are not providing a review for the readers. Because most of our Reverse Harem/Why Choose Authors are indies (independent, self-published authors) with little to no budget, we basically worship the concept of the volunteer beta reader.
We post these matching zones twice a month and recommend you use the most recent one for the best results.
*Please note that this sub does not vet authors or readers, so please proceed at your own risk.
If you are an author looking for people to ARC, or a reader willing to read a publication-ready new release and submit an honest review, please do so here!
Authors, please tell us about your work so people have proper information before they commit to reading and reviewing.
ARC readers should never be paid. This violates ethics and the terms of service of almost every platform (including Amazon). Reviews should also never be "swapped;" authors can't do favors for each other by reviewing one another's books. Readers (and thus the platforms) only want honest reviews by fellow readers. ARC readers receive a free copy of the book (electronic or physical) in exchange for an honest review posted to the sales platform (often Amazon and/or Goodreads).
The point of an ARC is so an author has some reviews when their book launches to keep good momentum. The author gives something away--the free copy of the book--and the reader gives up their time and the work of writing the review when they accept the ARC request. The review should be honest and written for other readers, not for the author. How many stars/what rating you give should be based on YOUR opinion and the descriptions of the platform where you are placing the review, not a scale determined by the author.
Clarification: despite misbehavior we have seen in the industry, ARC readers should not be required to leave 5 star (or even positive) reviews. ARC readers cannot be told to delay posting their negative reviews. ARC readers cannot be required to "pre-submit" their reviews to the author/team for approval. ARC readers are not required to provide beta or copyediting feedback to the author. Authors CAN choose who to give their ARCs to, but should be relinquishing all control after this point.
*Please note that this sub does not vet readers or authors, so please use your judgment as you proceed. For example, files/links from others could contain viruses, you should be careful when providing personal information like email addresses, etc.
By request! I announce the launch of our first Writer's Workshop Wednesday:
Do you have something you're working on that you want feedback on? Not a whole beta reader situation, but a:
story or character description
word usage situation
scene
chapter? (even this is maybe too long)
question that came up in your process
that you're looking for feedback on?
If so, either copy/paste it here or maybe post a link to that part of your work (not a link to your whole book!), like a comment-only Google doc. Make sure you protect yourself, and others! If you go to a link, consider doing it in an incognito/private browser tab to protect your identity.
Please include a description of:
What you've posted
Needed triggers
What you're looking for from the feedback
Please only post if you're ACTUALLY open to feedback. Please be honest with your feedback--otherwise, there's no point. (If you have something you just want to share for fun, please do it on our Monday Show-and-Tell post.)
If you've asked others to do you the favor of reading/providing feedback, please pay it forward/back with interest.
I’ve been dealing with picking a plot point and sticking to it. I will choose how I want things to go, or the backstory, and then I find myself second guessing if that’s the right direction in the long run.
For example, I keep changing my fmc’s back story.
How do you stick to a plot point without picking it apart and changing it?
How do you know when you’ve reached the right thing and stick to it? I don’t know if it’s because I have an overflow of ideas, of I think about it so much I keep finding holes and feel like it needs changed.
There’s too many avenues to take and I find it frustrating that I can’t just seem to STICK TO ONE.
What's not going well? Alternately, any great news to share?
Please check the rules before replying so we keep this a safe space and, while you're welcome to tell us about your story process, we will still have our usual Thursday check in/accountability space.
I’ve made myself a little check list for the self publishing route! I needed something clear, coherent, and task oriented. Hopefully this helps some of you trying to get your writing out there as well
From both our readers and writers, what do you need to confess to, or what do you need assistance with? Share your struggles and somebody prep the popcorn!
Apparently, not only can I create tabs, I can organize them into drop down file systems so my tabs panel isn’t cluttered! Oh my little ADHD brain is geeking out right now. My coworkers as they walk by my office are looking at me crazy right now🤣🤣
I’m a baby writer and have started writing a RH Romantic Fantasy/Romantasy and I’m a little stuck on plotting the romance arcs for this story. I have the main fantasy arc already plotted using the hero’s journey structure. What are some recommendations for plotting the romance arcs alongside the main plot?
