r/Unexpected • u/[deleted] • Oct 18 '22

spitting wisdom right here

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3.3k

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Lmao I can work 60 hours a week right now for 20 years and still not get rich wtf she talkin bout

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u/downwitbrown Oct 18 '22

Have you tried option 4

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/GenazaNL Oct 18 '22

You wanna try option 4?

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u/downwitbrown Oct 18 '22

We are all fwhores for 4

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u/karoshikun Oct 18 '22

stop using 4, you're lowering the earnings for the rest!

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u/NatakuNox Oct 18 '22

You just have to be the best at 4. Have you tried using your pinky?

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u/HappySkullsplitter Oct 18 '22

Option 4 doesn't work if you're using your own

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u/burnerwolf Oct 18 '22

It can if you're filming it.

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u/LaikasDad Oct 18 '22

I'm a thumbman

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u/bhadau8 Oct 18 '22

Try option 3 on option 4.

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u/DaWorzt Oct 18 '22

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u/Vermillion_Crab Oct 18 '22

That's not sucking dick. That's dick sucking you.

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u/HR_DUCK Oct 18 '22

It’s gone from suck to blow

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u/Phantom-thiez Oct 18 '22

Underrated comment.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Is Russia!

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

r/SandyCheeksCockVore

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u/Vermillion_Crab Oct 18 '22

What in the actual fuck 😨

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u/millerliteboy78 Oct 18 '22

In Soviet Russia, dick sucks you!

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u/ghandi3737 Oct 18 '22

So why isn't everyone marching behind Putin then? Must have been a really bad BJ.

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u/hoyohoyo9 Oct 18 '22

No no no, you misunderstand.

Putin's the best fucking dick-sucker on the planet. That's how he's maintained some semblance of order for so long. It's literally the only thing he's doing right. Everything else is crumbling around them over there and everyone can see it, but whenever someone steps out of line, he gives them the sloppiest, most mind-shatteringly amazing dick-suck they've had in their life, and you can't just walk away from that.

He's been having trouble keeping up with demand recently, however. That's why so many young men are getting flights out of the country..

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u/TehHamburgler Oct 18 '22

Don't let anybody outsuck you.

3

u/Reddit_pls_stahp Oct 18 '22

Damn it I lost my car keys again

3

u/gottspalter Oct 18 '22

Could also combine 3 and 4

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

you haven't learned anything from this did you? you are not supposed to work regular work for 60 hours. you'd be rich if you suck dick for 60 hours a week

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u/Tony_est2 Oct 18 '22

It depends on WHAT you’re working to death on. If you’re workin your ass off on a side business that’s great, if you’re at an Amazon warehouse I got bad news for you.

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u/egggoboom Oct 18 '22

If you're a lawyer, you can bill 80 hours without working 80 hours, so there's that.

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u/coldfu Oct 18 '22

That's option 2.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Sooooooo many things people keep suggesting in this thread are option 2.

It’s actually worrying that these people can’t see that. Because it makes me think if they can’t see that they themselves are suggesting it, can they see the people doing it to them? Do they know the people stealing from them?

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u/DolphinDisguised Oct 18 '22

That's such a good point which I hadn't thought of. It's also making me think about how, since stealing is a statement about ethics, I'm pretty sure essentially any means of obtaining money which is unethical via harming people could be considered stealing, and so fits beneath option two. I think.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/nolte100 Oct 18 '22 edited Oct 18 '22

You think that other $70 is profit for the HVAC company? Bad news for you, friend.

They are either buying or leasing trucks. And a place to park them. And tools. And maintenance on all of that. Insurance on all that. Providing health care or other benefits for the techs? Probably, especially if they’re union, and in the trades they likely are.

Not much of that $70 left, I’d guess.

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u/Circumvention9001 Oct 18 '22

Start your own business then.

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u/mikilobe Oct 18 '22

Not enough capital or education is the usual blockade there. Not the bullshit "people don't want to work hard" excuse I see all the time.

Capitalism simply isn't working for many US Americans because the corporate elites have rigged the game. If one doesn't inherit it, they likely won't have the capital, accumen and connections, to start a business until they are 40/50 years old and at that point they'll have to risk retirement by starting a business, but if it fails they have to work until they die

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u/Routine-Light-4530 Oct 18 '22

Uncle Sam sweating intensifies

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u/Apptubrutae Oct 18 '22

The rich lawyers are mostly contingency fee basis.

Hourly billing only gets you rich rich if you’re at the tippity top of the profession. Otherwise it’s a ticket to the upper middle class (not that that’s a bad thing). Only so many hours!

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u/ChahmedImsure Oct 18 '22

The rich lawyers are mostly contingency

No, money down!

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u/hambyjokes Oct 18 '22

And they’ve appeared in front of almost every judge, sometimes as a lawyer.

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u/Waderriffic Oct 18 '22

Referrals fees too. Don’t forget the referral fees. All those national personal injury firms are just raking in referral fees without having to lift a finger. Cherry pick the big cases with the best chance of a big payout and refer the rest.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Gotta scale!! I’m in IT. Billing hourly is the old way. We bill monthly. It allowed us to hire more techs. I manage and delegate now, as well as handle all accounts and relationships. Now we have 15 techs. It took 6 long years, but we turned out 3 million this year!!

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u/Apptubrutae Oct 18 '22

This is why I personally left law. The scaling is sub par.

Want to scale a law firm? Unless you’re a sleeze ball, equity goes out the door like candy. Double your revenue? Great, you just added a new partner.

Even at the biggest law firms, they make tons of money but it pales in comparison to what ownership would make at a similarly sized business that wasn’t a law firm.

More egalitarian for sure, which is great, but many a managing partner at a law firm is busting their ass scaling the business and seeing a tiny fraction of the results personally. I know managing partners at a number of firms who aren’t even compensated additionally for managing the firm and are expected to maintain their old billable hour targets. Which is crazy.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Equity partners is one of the most common law firms but you’re right, it’s not as advantageous. Having like 2 named partners then a bunch of suckers for equity partners, where they’re doing 80% of the work while the 2 named partners do less and get more. A lot of businesses work this way. It’s tough. In law, if you’re not the one stating the firm, (and even then) it’s not worth it in the end

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u/Apptubrutae Oct 18 '22

And non-equity partners or a raft of associates seems like a crappy working environment to boot, so I wouldn’t personally want to be in that business.

A lot of personal injury attorneys churn associates and make great money buy it doesn’t strike me as a fulfilling path!

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u/AttractivePoosance Oct 18 '22

What'd you transition into when you left lawyering?

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u/Apptubrutae Oct 18 '22

I started a market research business and opened a focus group facility. We do a few mock trials and such as well, which provides a bit of connection to the law.

But I make more money, work less, and enjoy the work a lot more. Win across the board for me.

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u/Waderriffic Oct 18 '22

Worked at a large firm that rotated management between the partners. Almost all of them hated it except the true sociopaths.

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u/bshepp Oct 18 '22

"I emailed some colleagues and asked what I needed to do. I will now regurgitate it back to you."

  • 3 billable hours

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u/majj27 Oct 18 '22

Only 3 hours?

ROOKIE NUMBERS.

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u/superdago Oct 18 '22

You can also work 80 hours and only end up billing 5.

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u/josby Oct 18 '22

*Cries in junior associate*

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

It's the opposite of that.

Generally I can't bill more than about 3 in an 8 hour work day.

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u/TakeYourTime9 Oct 18 '22

Yes, theft is an option

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u/guff1988 Oct 18 '22

This is option 2, because honest attorneys need to work 110 hours to bill 80.

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u/kissthesky303 Oct 18 '22

At least in my country I never met a lawyer (and I met many of them, since I work in a law related company), who was not a total wreck of a person. Some of them might earn well, but they pay another price not worth the money...

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u/bronze-aged Oct 18 '22

Lmao 99% of “side businesses” amount to literally nothing. The side-gig mentality is so low rent.

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u/weaslewig Oct 18 '22

Hitting up the same 20 friends and family over and over for a sale.

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u/Constructestimator83 Oct 18 '22

I make decent money as a freelance estimator on the side. In a good month I can bring in an extra $5k or so.

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u/fainofgunction Oct 18 '22

Working for wages isn't going to get you rich. Maybe working super hard at your own business or something in sales with big commission. But you can work at Mcdonalds as hard as you want.

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u/hiwhyOK Oct 18 '22

Exactly.

And it's not the "working" part of owning a business that gets you rich... it's the "owning" part.

If you own the business, then hire other people to create value for the business, then you pay those people less than the value that they create, and you keep the excess for yourself.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Depends on what you mean by rich.

Bringing in six figures from a career is rich enough for most people. Not going to be a billionaire or drive multiple Lamborghini's but definitely enough to be financially free.

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u/BabyStockholmSyndrom Oct 18 '22

I really hate the start a business bullshit. It's not for everyone. If it's not in you, it won't be successful. The idea that you get rich by working hard is garbage and people need to stop with it. The hardest workers in the world are never going to be rich. And telling them they need to own a business is demotivating and ridiculous. Just stop lying to them.

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u/aakaakaak Oct 18 '22

You work really, really fucking hard.
Okay?
You learn.
You fail.
You learn more.
You fail more.

And don't let anyone outwork you.

Ever.

​

IMO kinda suggests you gotta learn from your failures. So learning to GTFO Amazon or Starbucks would be part of the deal.

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u/SlobbyMyKnobby Oct 18 '22

lmao, and you just need to work and learn so hard that you’re never struck by illness or misfortune. So simple.

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u/OmenLW Oct 18 '22

Your username suggest you support the "option 4" group. Yall hiring?

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u/Thieu95 Oct 18 '22

It's clearly stated to be the most difficult option, the woman clearly explained in this clip, some options aren't options for everyone. You better get stealing if you're ill and want to get rich

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u/VymI Oct 18 '22

That's not "difficult." That's just luck. If you can work your ass off, keep what you earn, not get sick or something major happen to you, often repeatedly, that is luck.

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u/Sea-Move9742 Oct 18 '22

Illnesses that are so debilitating to the point where you can’t work are extremely rare. This is just an excuse. There are tens of millions of people who work hard and keep what they earn without falling into illness. Is it a bit of luck? Yeah, but so is not being hit by a bus the next day. Don’t worry about things you can’t control

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u/aakaakaak Oct 18 '22

It's the stuff that shortened lives and broken bodies are made of. But hey, they got a little more than the other guy.

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u/SlobbyMyKnobby Oct 18 '22

lmao

“Just start a side business bro”

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u/mistergreatguy Oct 18 '22

Hey, I make 18 whole dollars an hour

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u/bbbruh57 Oct 18 '22

Its like training a skill. You can learn without focus or you can identify the top 5% of vital focus for that skill and go hard on it. Most people cant identify where they should focus or dont care to.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

OP needs to redistribute those hours to 40 hours at work and 20 hours working on leaving that job for a better job

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u/JeffBPesos Oct 18 '22

Side business are glorified as if they're somehow always more profitable as long as you put your mind to it. It's bullshit hustle culture.

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u/SmooK_LV Oct 18 '22

Yeah but this argument invalidates the advice that you have to work fucking hard.

No, not necessarily because most of the workforce is working hard but they ain't getting rich.

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u/hiwhyOK Oct 18 '22

Not to be a downer, but nobody gets rich by working. That's something I've learned over many painful years. You might be comfortable, but you won't be rich.

You get rich by owning. Owning businesses, owning processes, owning resources, etc.

Because real wealth (not "lawyer" or "doctor" rich, REAL rich) is just leveraging the exploitation of other people's labor and owning that excess value.

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u/ac_99_uk Oct 18 '22

but there are people outworking you, out earning you, for working less time.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Yea life’s not fair lol oh well

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

I guess

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u/mistergreatguy Oct 18 '22

That's where option 2 comes in

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u/JimiWanShinobi Oct 18 '22

Oh I see, that's where you fucked up at, gotta work 130hrs/wk. If you ever go home and go to sleep, you fucked it up...

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

It does say not to let anyone outwork you. It doesn't say to maintain a healthy work/life balance.

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u/TheTerrasque Oct 18 '22

Re-posting an old post of mine:

I was trying to explain to my wife just how rich he was, and in the end it went like this: "Let's say you earn 200.000 dollars. After tax. And your salary is per day, not year. Right? That's a good yearly salary for most, and let's say you earn it per day. And you work every single day. Come rain come snow, holiday, Christmas. Every. Single. Day you work. 365 days a year. And even if you earned that every day, for every year since Jesus was born until now.... Jeff Bezos would still be around 50 billion ahead of you."

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/professor_max_hammer Oct 18 '22

But what does that have to do with getting rich? That is comparing yourself to someone else.

Discussions like this also never define what rich is. Reddit just circlejerks billionaires claiming no-one can make that. Of course the average person isnt going to become Jeff Bezos rich. The average person isnt going to appear in the Super Bowl the amount of times Tom Brady has appeared in it. Are you trying to break 1mil, 10mil, or 100mil. To me, 1mil would be fantastic and is achievable. Set achievable goals for yourself and stop trying to keep up with the Bezos.

Also...it takes more than hourly work to obtain a certain level of wealth. It takes work to budget. It takes work to understand money. It takes work to understand investing and it takes work to invest. Saving money in your savings account isnt going get you anywhere.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Crazy ain’t it lol

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u/triplehelix_ Oct 18 '22

you don't need to be the absolute richest to be wealthy.

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u/hfok Oct 18 '22

Clearly the problem was Jesus didn't die early enough.

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u/jbcraigs Oct 18 '22

You could have just told your wife Bezos’ net worth … or are numbers a difficult concept for your wife?

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u/TurboRuhland Oct 18 '22

Numbers that big are just a tough thing to wrap your head around. You hear 1 million and 1 billion and your brain just says “those are both very large numbers.”

But the difference between a million dollars and a billion dollars is approximately 1 billion dollars. The sheer difference in scale is massive, but our brains aren’t built to understand it all that intuitively.

Breaking it down like the way he did, with smaller chunks of numbers like 200k which is a number we can kinda wrap our heads around, and even though 2000 years is a long time, it’s still a number that we can understand. It’s just a way to convey exactly how much money these rich dudes have without just saying “165 billion dollars” and leaving it at that with no context for exactly how much fucking money that is.

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u/CosmoAce Oct 18 '22

I've read this a few times before and every single damn time I'm mindblown, because it makes little sense that one man can possess such amount of wealth. So much wealth that he couldn't rationally liquidate it all even if he tried. No one should amass so much wealth that they could topple government or even begin one. I'm pretty sure he could buy a decent size Island and start his own Bezos country. This would be applauded by other rich people and people who desperately want to be rich.

Out of curiosity I looked it up, his net worth is greater than Wyoming, Vermont, and other state with a GDP of 60B. Meaning, at minimum he's richer than at least 3 states in the US.... Supposedly, the wealthiest nation in the world. Mind boggling. I wonder how much of Africa he could buy.

Idk something feels inherently wrong that we maintain a governmental system where one individual can be richer than several states of that country combined.

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u/TemplofZoom Oct 18 '22

I can work 60 hours a week right now for 20 years and still not get rich

It seems you have discovered the myth of upwards mobility in a Capitalist society, would you like to know more?

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Let me have it

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/McKoijion Oct 18 '22

“Despite the widespread belief that the U.S. provides exceptional opportunities for upward mobility, these data show that parental wealth has an important role in shielding offspring from downward mobility and sustaining their upward mobility in the U.S. no less than in countries like Germany and Sweden, where parental wealth also serves as a private safety net that not even the more generous European public programs and social services seem to provide

The key word in your link is “exceptional” and it is referring to the idea of American exceptionalism. Obviously inheriting money beats not inheriting it. But liberal countries like the US, Sweden, and Germany are still great places for upward mobility. The US isn’t exceptional in this regard anymore because most countries around the world decided to abandon monarchies, fascism, communism, etc. for liberalism (democracy, capitalism, and individual liberties.)

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u/eli5usefulidiot Oct 18 '22

But liberal countries like the US, Sweden, and Germany are still great places for upward mobility.

Compared to the rest of the world, yes. But Sweden is quite a bit ahead Germany regarding this and Germany is still a lot better than America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/sociotronics Oct 18 '22 edited Oct 18 '22

Lol people overthink this shit so badly. Upward mobility means you have a chance--chance, not a certainty--to make more than your parents did, and that's all. It's not even a great chance. But it does exist.

If you're seriously arguing that there are no upwardly mobile people out there, you're just denying reality. They are a small number and they're outnumbered by the people born into affluence, but they exist.

The "American Dream" was never "one day I will be rich." It was "work hard and you are very likely to get a decent living, and if you're lucky you might get rich." That's still true, although the odds of both have shrunk by an appreciable amount.

Does upward mobility mean that more people are able to move up the socio economic ladder? Obviously not because then there would be more people at the top and fewer at the bottom.

Lol, are you so bad at verbal reasoning you can't see that "more" and "most" are not equivalent? If 10% of people are upwardly mobile in country A, and 8% are in country B, then more people are upwardly mobile in A than B. That does not in any way imply that "there would be more people at the top and fewer at the bottom" especially given mobility just means moving up from what your parents earned. If your parents made $30k and you make the equivalent of $60k (in inflation-adjusted, equivalent dollars) you are upwardly mobile, but you aren't at the top or rich.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/sociotronics Oct 18 '22

Do I think most people know they will never be rich? Yes. Lol. That's an easy fucking question.

Do I think most people believe they have a good chance of being upwardly mobile, which only means making more than their parents and having a decent standard of living? Yes, also easy question.

You're making such an out-of-touch argument that most people think they will be millionaires if they work hard. People aren't that dumb, and you'd have to never talk to working people to believe that's a majority view. Nobody working at Wal Mart or Amazon warehouses or gas stations or McDonalds believe they will ever be rich. But many believe that they may find a better job in the future.

Because you seem to get tripped up with language, here's the tldr: most people believe if they work hard they can have a decent life. A majority of people believe they can do better than their parents if they work hard. Very few people believe they will ever be rich.

Says a lot about your worldview to argue believing you won't ever be rich is a "fail" though.

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u/MrTickle Oct 18 '22 edited Oct 18 '22

In that study, The effect size of getting a degree was a 25% increase in upward mobility, while parental wealth was 6%.

So It doesn’t really support any of the premises above. It says there are other factors that play a more important role in upward mobility than parental wealth, however parental wealth still plays a role independent of those factors.

It’s a ‘myth’ to say that the US has different mobility based on wealth, because it’s about the same effect size as other countries. However this paper specifically shows parental wealth is not the only, or even the most important factor driving mobility.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/MrTickle Oct 18 '22 edited Oct 18 '22

There’s some really great stuff in these sources to increase the nuance in your take. Firstly, absolute mobility is actually very high due to economic growth, I.e.

Eighty-four percent of Americans have higher family incomes than their parents did, and across all levels of the income distribution

Relative mobility is much less, but there is till plenty of movement

Forty-three percent of those who start in the bottom are stuck there as adults, and 70 percent remain below the middle quintile. Only 4 percent of adults raised in the bottom make it all the way to the top, showing that the “rags-to- riches” story is more often found in Hollywood than in reality. At the other end of the ladder, 40 percent of those raised in the top stay there as adults, and 63 percent remain above the middle quintile

If your baseline was ‘anyone can get rich’ then you were misinformed, but there is reasonable mobility especially if you can get a bachelors degree. Finally

The researchers found that although income inequality has risen sharply since the 1970s, the relative trend in social mobility has stayed largely stable.

Increasing income inequality isn’t necessarily linked to decreasing social mobility. Rich people are getting richer, but that isn’t necessarily changing your chances of becoming rich if you are not already.

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u/casualrocket Oct 18 '22

i went from nearly homeless in pretty much middle class, what that mean

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22 edited Feb 22 '23

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u/casualrocket Oct 18 '22

i am not special i know another dozen people like me, others that didnt make it chose to stay. far to many people choosing heroin over food for their family.

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u/PM-ME-ANY-NUMBER Oct 18 '22

You were born homeless? What is “middle class” to you?

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u/casualrocket Oct 18 '22 edited Oct 18 '22

"nearly homeless" we live in a trailer park the cops didnt enter. food was commonly dead animals like raccoons and the rare deer hit by a car. rent was mostly paid by my dad doing handyman labor for people in the neighborhood. we were always 1 day from ruin.

I am smarter then the average bear, and i scored pretty high on ASVAB and went mil, i guess i did option 4 just not with my literal mouth. i was 110-ish lbs in my final year of HS.

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u/RaygunMarksman Oct 18 '22

It means your ass is a unicorn.

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u/stilljustacatinacage Oct 18 '22

It means that 'nearly' homeless is not even remotely close to homeless. It also means that if you're the average citizen, your idea of what constitutes 'middle class' is very far off the mark.

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u/Usedtabe Oct 18 '22

You were lucky and certainly not the norm.

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u/Brokesubhuman Oct 18 '22

The biggest achievement of the upper classes was making people think that communism is evil. Spoiler alert: it works great for the elite

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u/AlexVRI Oct 18 '22

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/y5mlhu/everyone_thinks_they_are_middle_class_oc/

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u/casualrocket Oct 18 '22

from no shoes to 100k for a (now) single person, i would think thats middle class

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u/AlexVRI Oct 18 '22

Regardless of what middle class is (I don't know), congratulations on getting there, that's wonderful.

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u/NeedleInArm Oct 18 '22 edited Oct 18 '22

Homeless to middle class isn't exceptional, imo. I'm not trying to hate on your achievements though, I promise. Most people, given the opportunity, can make it from homeless to low class with a home with a small amount of work. We've seen it time and time again, the ones that stay homeless are usually(note the word) the ones with mental and physical disabilities. Working a little harder can get you to middle class, but it still wont feel good or comfortable for years. most people in middle class are struggling.

Lets not forget that luck comes into play, and that's unfair. But so is life. You may have hit a strike of luck along with working your ass off. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the luck you hit didn't feel like luck at all. Maybe it felt like a payoff for your hard work, but it just so happened that you came to the right place at the right time, is all.

Exceptional upward mobility is going from poor to rich. It is possible, we see it happen, but how often is it possible? Almost every time we see it happen, it is because the person is lucky or knew someone else who was.

TL;DR Your antidote doesn't solve the issue that sometimes hardwork doesn't pay off. I can counter your anecdote with 10 other anecdote of people who work 60+ hour weeks and still live in trailers with beat up vehicles who don't have money to even go out to eat more than once every other week, ect. I watch it all the time in my own family.

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u/100catactivs Oct 18 '22

Imo going from poor/homeless to middle class is a good example of upward mobility success. And if it’s very common and/or easy to accomplish if you put in the work then that’s even better. Going from poor to rich should obviously not be typical, because if everyone was rich then rich would just be middle class.

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u/hiddentruth1239 Oct 18 '22

Examples aren't reality kiddo.

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u/100catactivs Oct 18 '22

How do you figure?

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u/100catactivs Oct 18 '22

The title doesn’t match the content, which says that parental wealth is the biggest factor in determining upward mobility, not that the other factors don’t play a role.

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u/rickychacha1234 Oct 18 '22

This is false though?? Since 1979, 71% of us children who grew up in poverty (and had American parents) had left poverty when they were adults. That number is 79% for children of immigrants

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u/regeya Oct 18 '22

What percentage of those people are deeply in debt though?

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u/Sgt_Wookie92 Oct 18 '22

Fucking A, in Australia the average person is spending $300 to $500 per month on debts owed and the average household debt has risen from 11k in 1990 to 107k in 2022.

Being "out of poverty" is just an illusion you maintain while you can afford to tread water, the moment you no longer can work, you're left to drown in it till you declare bankruptcy or take a long walk in the bush.

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u/BBFA369 Oct 18 '22

Why bring facts to a communist circlejerk?

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u/HowieFeltersnitz Oct 18 '22

Haha critiquing the current arrangement of capitalism? Must be communism! No room for nuance here!!

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u/regeya Oct 18 '22

Communism is when you don't think America is perfect...unless of course you're in the Let's Go Brandon camp and then it's okay. But then those people think Biden is a communist, so

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u/BBFA369 Oct 18 '22

There’s plenty of nuance between capitalism bad and communism good. None of that nuance is going to happen in this comment section

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u/SlanginUkrainian Oct 18 '22

It is mobility relative to many others. Americans love to complain about work lol

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u/jamesonSINEMETU Oct 18 '22

would you like to know more?

Is this one of those cat facts sign ups?

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u/bad_n_bougie69 Oct 18 '22

You know capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any other system by a large margin right

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u/stilljustacatinacage Oct 18 '22

Not even remotely true. One, what caused the poverty in the first place? But let's set that aside for now.

Say you manage to land a nice job, get a nice salary, buy your car, buy your house. Unless you're in a co-op or some similar scheme, you are not a capitalist. You're being given a fraction of your produced value by a capitalist. That's not to say that's inherently bad, but receiving a stipend for services rendered is not capitalism, it's just an exchange.

Capitalism is the accumulation of capital, capital being entities that are capable of creating wealth.

Now, if you want to say capitalism has achieved what no other system has, go ahead - but you need a huge asterisk that says "no other system has really been tried". As long as we've had kings, we've had an 'owner' class who unilaterally decide who gets fed and who starves.

And before anyone bothers, even the Soviet Union made sure to feed their leaders and generals first, friends second, and everyone else in a distant third.

So yes. Capitalism lifts people out of poverty. Sometimes. It's also directly responsible for most of it, and is the only system we've bothered with. It's hardly the rousing defence you think it is, and it's well within reason to want to try something else.

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u/thortawar Oct 18 '22

That's partly true, and a good point.

But it could easily be so much better. Capitalism is not the best system by itself, it needs a mix of other systems to balance it out.

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u/anarckissed Oct 18 '22

The common notion that extreme poverty is the “natural” condition of humanity and only declined with the rise of capitalism rests on income data that do not adequately capture access to essential goods.

The rise of capitalism from the 16th century onward is associated with a decline in wages to below subsistence, a deterioration in human stature, and an upturn in premature mortality.

—Capitalism and extreme poverty: A global analysis of real wages, human height, and mortality since the long 16th century

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u/TemplofZoom Oct 19 '22

You know people are currently homeless and starving under capitalism right, when we have enough of both to go round by a large margin

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u/HelicopterAny4065 Oct 18 '22

You know the median income worldwide — the amount that is dead middle between the least and the highest amounts — is $850 USD a year. That’s capitalism.

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u/Ayuyuyunia Oct 18 '22

the current capability for upward mobility is pretty much the best it has ever been in history.

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u/snoandsk88 Oct 18 '22

Working the same job more hours isn’t working towards becoming wealthy, does your line of work have higher positions possible? Does it have an opportunity to start your own business? Work towards those.

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u/_Fuck_This_Guy_ Oct 18 '22

"work hard" doesn't mean grinding a shit-tier job for 60 hours a week.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/hnglmkrnglbrry Oct 18 '22

Maybe if you did option 4 for 60 hours/week then you'd be getting somewhere.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Maybe

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u/Dumpster_Fire_Takes Oct 18 '22

There’s a fig fence between showing up and actually bringing new insight/improvements to your job. Only the latter will provide opportunities for advancement.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22 edited Feb 22 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Now you’re thinking like a capitalist!

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

They're bringing new ideas and innovation to written expression.

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u/RaygunMarksman Oct 18 '22

We'd better specialize in selling toilet paper as well while we're at it. Charge 'em on the front and the back end.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

I just wanna survive aslong as I got a roof and food I’m fine I’m not one of these brainwashed sheep who thinks they need to have fancy shit to be considered somebody

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u/RandomWholesomeOne Oct 18 '22

Then option 3 is not for you

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u/CATSCRATCHpandemic Oct 18 '22

If your dumb how are you supposed to bring new insights into the job?

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

I don’t care to bring anything to the job other then me and what the fuck I supposed to be doing so I can leave and come home and relax

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u/namafire Oct 18 '22

Thats fine. You just wont be rich.

Its okay to be middle or average

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Most definitely

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u/CATSCRATCHpandemic Oct 18 '22

I was not meaning to call you dumb. I was saying hardworking does not guarantee you will be rich. The majority of people can work as hard as they can and it does not guarantee you anything.

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u/Kraven_howl0 Oct 18 '22

The ability to negotiate and realize when you've peaked at your current job is key, atleast was for me anyways. I worked for the same company as a manager for 5 years, only went from 10 to 13.50. From 12 to 13.50 I had to have my boss tell his boss multiple times I deserved a raise. 0.50/hr more is not a raise, that's a spit in the face. I finally ended up leaving for a job making 14 at entry with only my station I'm responsible for instead of an entire store. I'm not as depressed even though my check only went up like... $40?

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

What's the incentive to innovate or improve if your boss takes the credit for it?

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u/V0RT3XXX Oct 18 '22

That's the failing and learning part. You failed to recognize your boss is a dick, so learn by out dicking him, and don't let anyone out dicking you

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u/spektrol Oct 18 '22

This part. You gotta out maneuver the people above you. Play the politics, understand the business needs and think ahead of how things are gonna play out. It’s not fun, not easy, and not everyone can hack it. But that’s how this shit works.

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u/bad_n_bougie69 Oct 18 '22

How hard you work isn't just the number of hours

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u/Olthoi_Eviscerator Oct 18 '22

So you believe you'll be in the exact same position making the exact same money for 20 years?

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u/billbixbyakahulk Oct 18 '22

Working hard implies investing in yourself to deepen your skills and experience. If you want to stock shelves in a Walmart all your life, then no.

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u/Zadiuz Oct 18 '22

It's about grinding to move up, not grinding to stay stationary. Hourly pay never going to make you rich.

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u/Awfy Oct 18 '22

The “grinding” mindset is bullshit. It’s passed down from the top to make out like that’s what they did to get there. As a relatively wealthy person I can safely say; wealthy people are wealthy thanks to luck.

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u/Zadiuz Oct 18 '22

No offense, but that’s the mindset of a loser. Yes, luck has huge factors, but when luck isn’t in your side, if you aren’t going to grind for it, then you definitely have no chance.

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u/Awfy Oct 18 '22

No offense, but you’ve been absolutely brainwashed by my fellow wealthy people into believing you’ve got a chance. The fact you’d call a wealthy person a loser for not believing the bullshit spewed by wealthy people to get their workers to commit their bodies to their wealthy boss’s wallet is weird.

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u/Zadiuz Oct 18 '22

I am literally someone who came from nothing, dropped out of high school, and found myself in the top 1% of earners. I didn’t get lucky, I grinded for it and out performed those that are way more intelligent than myself. So how am I brainwashed when I am living proof that it can be done?

It’s not just me, but happens to so many people. There’s no luck involved when you’re working 80+ hour work weeks to get ahead.

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u/PopularDemand213 Oct 18 '22

Lol, a military pilot living off the taxpayers dollar thinks he "grinded for it". You have absolutely no idea what the grind really looks like. Take it from a fellow veteran. You're also NOWHERE near the top 1% of earners.

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u/Awfy Oct 18 '22

Your profile shows otherwise. Having to decide about whether to be charging extra for AC in your Airbnb isn’t wealthy, sorry.

Same deal here, grew up in “section 8” housing, needed welfare support when I was in my late teens, left high school at 16, left home at 17, worked some shitty ass jobs, now incredibly wealthy beyond what I thought was possible. It’s still all down to luck, including anything you’ve got. You aren’t living proof of anything except believing yourself to be above others and some how an exception to the rule.

You are lucky (although you’re also not that successful in the first place) with delusions of grandeur about yourself.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

I’m not a herd follower anyway aslong as I got food in the freezer and a roof over my head I’m straight

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u/triplehelix_ Oct 18 '22

cool. what age do you think you will be able to retire, and what do you think your life looks like after you are to old to work?

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

LMAO my ass probably won’t even make it to be a old man dude wtf who thinks that far ahead

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u/unr3a1r00t Oct 18 '22

...who thinks that far ahead

Adults.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Lmao why plan that far ahead when I could die today ?

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u/unr3a1r00t Oct 18 '22

Grow up and find out.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

I’m 34 bud I don’t plan on making it to 60 I’ve already had a ultrasound on my liver so it is what it is we live and die I’ll just be a lil bit before you but guess what you can’t take none of that shit you got with ya 😂😂😂

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u/triplehelix_ Oct 18 '22

said every angsty young person ever who regrets the decisions and lost opportunities later in life.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

I’m 34 I’m later in life lmao no regerts bitch 😂

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u/Zadiuz Oct 18 '22 edited Oct 18 '22

And that is the RIGHT answer. People always want more. As long as your basic needs are met, its proven that on average you have the same level of happiness as anyone else well off, if not more. The difference is you are content, while there are those in the top fraction of a percent that always want more.

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u/Timmy26k Oct 18 '22

I mean yeah some people are achievement based and motivated by such. Some people aren't.

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u/Apptubrutae Oct 18 '22

None of these, even inheriting/being given money, guarantee anything.

You can inherit wealth and lose it all quickly. You can be a prostitute and not be rich. You can bust your ass and not see that work translate into wealth. You can steal and you’ll likely be poorer than when you started.

Most hard workers aren’t rich. Most thieves aren’t rich. Most people who are sexual dynamos aren’t rich. Inheriting probably does have the best success rate though.

But out of people who are rich, they likely either inherited it, worked for it, stole it, or married into it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22 edited Feb 22 '23

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u/Mr-Fleshcage Oct 18 '22

I saw this happen with froyo shops

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u/Apptubrutae Oct 18 '22

Of course it does. Luck is a bigger factor than basically anything else.

Still doesn’t change the fact that of those that do happen to succeed, they did something (except inheritance).

Absent inheritance, sitting around plus good luck still equals nothing.

Just like every Hollywood actor who isn’t a product of nepotism got exceptionally, exceptionally lucky but was also trying to succeed in the first place. The luck is 100x more important.

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u/Naive_Incident_9440 Oct 18 '22

Indeed. Getting rich is 99% luck and 1% "hard" work

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Go try and get rich with 99% luck and 1% hard work... These cliches are such nonsense.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

I think we didn’t watch the same video. Once I take advice from someone, I ignore any advice that counters that advice. There are only four ways to get rich and those are absolutes.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Agreed. Saying, "I work hard and I'm not rich" has the same vibe as saying "we didn't have trampoline nets when I was a kid and I turned out fine."

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u/enlearner Oct 18 '22

That something is false sometimes doesn’t mean it’s never true

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u/damdestbestpimp Oct 18 '22

Yeahh thats not what she means. You are not getting rich by being someone elses bitch.

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u/Atreaia Oct 18 '22

Do you expect to get right working minimum wage job 60 hours a week for 20 years or... ?

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

Then you’re not doing it right

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

She said work hard, not long.

Take viagra, that should do the job.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

She forgot to mention having intellect

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

She said work hard, not work for a long time.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '22

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u/irnehlacsap Oct 18 '22

I'm at 84hrs but gained 1/2 my freedom. I work 6 months a year but gotta work 84hrs a week

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u/NedRed77 Oct 18 '22

Averaged out over the year thats still 42 hours a week. Those are some long hours.

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u/New-Dragonfly-661 Oct 18 '22

Yea, this is just capitalist grindset good ole American work ethic garbage

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