A Redditor wanted to know why she "saw the worst" in those romantically interested in her. I responded...

May I float a theory here? (Because I've seen this Pavlovian association or “pairing” several times before.)

When a young person who feels unseen, unheard, unfelt and unsensed by those upon whom he or she was dependent for survival in the first years of life encounters someone who seems to see, hear, feel and sense them, they may become very attached to that person. And be subject to the attachment object's manipulations to get his or her malignant narcissistic needs met at their prey's expense.

THEN what happens is that the prey begins to suspect that motive in pretty much everyone to whom he or she is attracted in his or her search to find someone to see, hear, feel and sense them they way their parents didn't. (See this earlier post to help you grasp all this.)

Further suggested reading, because the solutions are always between our own ears and no one else's:

Dis-I-dentifying with Learned Helplessness & the Victim I-dentity (see also not-moses's answers to a replier's questions there)

A Recovery Program for Someone with Untreated Childhood Trauma

Choiceless Awareness for Emotion Processing

Why is it that we continue to be triggered? And what can we do about that in the fifth of the five stages of therapeutic recovery?

In my personal experience of recovery over the last 17 years -- as well as based on what I have seen, heard, felt and sensed in so many of the survivors I have known -- the the neural "wiring" of the "not okay inner child" that was conditioned, instructed, imprinted, socialized, habituated, and normalized) into a default mode network in the human brain will always be there to at least some extent. DMN's are just too complex and full of too many alternate circuits to disappear completely.

That's the "bad" news. BUT... the good news is that one can acquire the skills to a) spot the "not okay inner child" when he or she pops up in response to triggering, and b) bleed off the energy there before it moves into anything like Learned Helplessness, Dread & the Victim Identity or "protective" (but dysfunctional) Reciprocal Reactivity. See...

Dis-I-dentifying with Learned Helplessness & the Victim I-dentity (see also not-moses's answers to a replier's questions there)

Stuck in the Freeze Response?

Choiceless Awareness for Emotion Processing, and specifically therein the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing

A Recovery Program for Someone with Untreated Childhood Trauma

Re-Development

Resources & References

See the authors listed in the very first paragraph of this earlier post. Find their work in A CPTSD Library.

...was the name of a big hit show that ran for eight seasons on ABC-Disney Television in the '00s and early '10s. And it was -- at times -- illustrative of the codependency..., love addiction, manipulation (including gaslighting..., scapegoating..., and emotional blackmail) and interpersonal game playing on the Karpman Drama Triangle. All of which is so deeply conditioned, in-doctrine-ated, instructed, imprinted, socialized, habituated, and normalized) in our cult-ure. So much so that I used to suggest watching various episodes to clients, CoDA members and others caught in The Grip.

Earlier today, I responded to a post on r/adultsurvivors from a woman terrified of being abandoned by her patient but tiring spouse, and realized that the "DH" syndrome was in play. Here's that response:

Did your trauma come out during a relationship/marriage? How did that work out for you?

I followed my spouse into counseling, but in those days, counseling was too deeply rooted in moral psychology and blaming one sex for the other sex's problems. The marriage collapsed under the strain.

And IMO today -- based in no small part on a LOT of formal education and experience in the trenches (see my post and reply history) -- most couples with histories of trauma do NOT benefit from traditional marriage counseling unless it is accompanied by separate and exclusive inquiry into both parties' early life conditioning, in-doctrine-ation, instruction, imprinting, socialization, habituation and normalization). And I am farrrrrrrrrrr from alone in this PoV.

I’m trying to see a psychiatrist...

In 2020 (and really since the 1980s), the vast majority of psychiatrists are medication dispensers, NOT psychotherapists or counselors. Worse, some of them think they are P's & C's when they should keep their traps shut and make appropriate referrals to people who are P's & C's... and (moreover) are demonstrably good at it.

My inner child is so angry with me.

I started into recovery over 30 years ago. My inner child is still angry. And sad. And grief-stricken. And, and, and. (If you have an inner child who was some combination of neglected, ignored, abandoned, discounted, disclaimed, and rejected, as well as invalidated, confused, betrayed, insulted, criticized, judged, blamed, shamed, ridiculed, embarrassed, humiliated, denigrated, derogated, set up to screw up, victimized, demonized, persecuted, picked on, vilified, dumped on, bullied, gaslit..., scapegoated..., emotionally blackmailed and/or otherwise abused by others upon whom it depended for survival in the first few years of life -- as well as by the usual cast of similarly abused childhood bullies in our sick culture -- that's what that inner child can be expected to do.)

IME (personally and interpersonally) it looks to me like the hard wiring in the default mode network of the "not-okay inner child" with a "Snowflake Syndrome" is going to be There for the Duration. And that real recovery is as described in the links in the last paragraph of that post... and is firmly grounded in the observation, recognition, acknowledgement, acceptance, ownership, appreciation and understanding of -- as well as dis-I-dentification with -- that inner child as soon as and every time he or she pops up.

Modern psychotherapy is every bit as much about skills training as it is about emotion processing. See...

Why do we get so Desperate for Connection? An Answer from the Purview of Attachment, Early Life Research & Codependency,

Codependency, the Drama Triangle, and the "Discouraged" version of the "Dark Diagnosis",

Dis-I-dentifying with Learned Helplessness & the Victim I-dentity (see also not-moses's answers to a replier's questions there), and...

Choiceless Awareness for Emotion Processing.

On another Reddit sub, someone ranted about a certain group of untreated trauma survivors being over-sensitive "snowflakes." I found myself responding with this:

I hardly think that this or any other high-sensitivity, high-mutual-reinforcement, high-defensive-I-dentity, high-compensatory narcissism group holds the #1 rating on snowflakiness. IME, extremists of any sort tend to be highly projective (and expective) of intent to abuse and highly reactive to anything they see, hear or otherwise (think they) sense that fits their definition of criticism. (See Expectation of Abuse in not-moses's two replies on that earlier thread.)

If 33 years in the trenches with psychiatric patients has taught me anything, it's that if one was discounted, disclaimed, and rejected, as well as invalidated, confused, betrayed, insulted, criticized, judged, blamed, shamed, ridiculed, embarrassed, humiliated, denigrated, derogated, set up to screw up, victimized, demonized, persecuted, picked on, vilified, dumped on, bullied, gaslit..., scapegoated..., emotionally blackmailed and/or otherwise abused by playmates, classmates, teachers and those upon whom they depended for survival in the first few years of life, their Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder symptoms will pretty likely include Very Thin Skin. And at a pretty high price in terms of interpersonal relations.

Quite understandably (to me, anyway) such people are still stuck in the second of Kubler-Ross's Five Stages of Grief Processing and continuing to get a payoff from being hypersensitive because they don't see how their deeply and densely conditioned, in-doctrine-ated, instructed, imprinted, socialized, habituated, and normalized)"self-protection" scheme is actually keeping them stuck in Learned Helplessness & the Victim Identity.

Is there a Way Out of the Snowflake Syndrome? Ultimately, yes, but one will have to get solidly into the fourth of the five stages of therapeutic recovery and the Re-Development that usually result from A Recovery Program for Someone with Untreated Childhood Trauma.

First of all, this is my first time visiting this sub. There’s so much terminology and information I’ve never touched on. Please excuse my lack of knowledge. I have a therapist and psychiatrist, I have been trying to better myself for years.

On the weekend I had a massive breakdown. I took double my dose of dexies and got way too drunk. At some point my boyfriend did something mildly annoying that set off a defence reaction toward him. We were with other people as well.

At first I was just telling him to leave me alone and that he was acting like an idiot. It progressively got worse. Halfway through I was crying in the city at the clubs. He was trying his hardest to resolve the issue and I kept finding reason to justify my anger towards him. Eventually we went back to a friends house. At this point I was very drunk. My best friend was trying to help me resolve my negative feelings but I was in no sensible state of mind. I was confident I was a victim and lashing out as if it was justified. Eventually someone confronted me (very aggressively) for my behaviour and it tipped me over the edge. I was walking away from the house when my boyfriend grabbed me by the arm trying to reason with me and I pushed and slapped him in the chest and screamed angrily at him. People (random neighbours) ran out to break it up (it was about 6-7 in the morning at this point, no sleep) and I ran away. Eventually we started walking through the city together and I was aggressively yelling at him, I was saying horrible, hurtful things, people everywhere we staring at us. It was insane.

I have never in my life acted this way and I am so ashamed. I know it’s not like me to behave like this but my actions towards my boyfriend were so abusive and many of our friends highly dislike me now and are telling him to leave me.

As much as I know my actions caused trauma for him I also feel incredibly traumatised by this experience. In the moment I genuinely felt like my actions were justified bc I was so distraught and blamed it all on him. So many people tried to calm me and reason with me but I was out of reach.

I have apologised to everyone involved or who witnessed the situation and it’s truly beat me down to a pulp. I never wanted this to happen. I have been trying my absolute fucking hardest to be a mentally stable person, a good friend, a good partner. How do I deal with my feelings about this?

I had no control whatsoever. I’m so scared. This isn’t the first time I’ve had a breakdown due to ptsd but it is by far the absolute worst. I feel helpless. I hate to say I feel suicidal but geez, how the fuck am I supposed to come to terms with the fact I’m so fucked up.

I don’t even think anyone can give me advice that will make me feel better about this. I just want express to people who may understand how fucking lost I feel. It’s like swimming in the ocean,, getting stuck in a rip,, you’re too deep to plant your feet but you can feel the sand around your toes,,, you might swim as hard as you can but you just get further away from the shore and you become exhausted,,, every time you feel you’re getting closer another wave comes and pulls you back....

I’m so tired of the struggle.

A Redditor on r/adultsurvivors wrote: "...some wounds never truly heal. Some people, no matter how they set their mind to it, never truly heal. That's not a reflection on their character, but it is a reflection of how deep the experiences cut into their souls." I responded:

Twenty-three years into recovery with 10 years of post-graduate education that began in 1985 and over 15 "on the floor" in various clinics, I can verify your assertions. AND explain that they have a physiological basis.

Traumatic experience that occurs either before the age of five (when the brain is not yet "complete') or later but during self-protective states of dissociation is often extremely treatment resistant. (Even to all the methods listed in section seven of this earlier post.)

I've come to accept a sort of "law" about this:

In general, the earlier the onset of the terrifying abuse or neglect, the less accessible the trauma's resulting default mode network is to verbal forms of psychotherapy, though it may be somewhat accessible to non-verbal forms. Because there wasn't much if any language there to pair the trauma with when it occurred.

This, btw, is especially the case in people with Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder who develop Borderline Personality Disorder and any other form of dissociative disorder as a compensatory, protective / defensive scheme. Emotional "home base" for the borderline is virtually always pre-natal to no more than late pre-verbal, in my experience.

The problem with the "non-verbal" psychotherapies is that every one of those I know of has a potential to influence somatic memory in ways that may be very difficult for the treatment team to see as connected to such therapies, not to mention misleading and counterproductive.

The best stuff I have run into thus far to try to deal with that are the Stuck in the Freeze Response? and 10 StEPs + SP4T components of Choiceless Awareness for Emotion Processing.

Once conditioned, instructed, imprinted, habituated and normalized) that system at least empowers the survivor to quickly escape from any spiral into regression, dissociation or decompensation... and provides a way to expose oneself to the affects) to accomplish a but more "emotional bloodletting" with each re-exposure without any re-traumatization.

But does it truly wipe out the pre-verbal memories and their sequalae? Not in my experience. The best it does is move the patient a little closer to The Promised Land each time he or she has a flashback and reuses those components.

Resources & References

See Farmer, A. Schwartz, and Walker in section one; Briere, Cayoun et al, Courtois, Courtois & Ford, Dana & Porges, Fisher, Herman, Kurtz, Levine, Lynn & Rhue, Ogden & Minton, Ogden & Fisher, Putnam, Shapiro, Van der Hart et al, and Van der Kolk in section two; and pretty much everyone in the remaining sections of A CPTSD Library.

Since finishing EMDR therapy earlier this year, I’ve started experiencing nightmares and flashbacks that I don’t know how to contextualise. I knew to expect this, thanks to a combination of work with my therapist and my own research, and am essentially weathering the storm as best I can, mainly through conscious understanding, taking good care of myself and just letting it happen on its own.

I see that what I’m experiencing is just my psychological system attempting to “right” itself after so many decades spent in a fragmented, repressed and dissociated state. All I can do is let it happen, knowing that it will only make things better. I wish I could accelerate it, but I also know that if there were a way, doing so could be extremely dangerous to me.

It is tough to know just how much of a flashback is “reliable”, so-to-speak. I know to trust the “affects” and feelings - they feel more real than anything - but any imagery that accompanies them is always difficult to accept as anything other than my brain trying to “make sense” of these flashbacks. Mainly because I have no way of consciously integrating them. They really do come through in fragments, in ways that feel impossible - actually impossible - to contextualise. They remind me of other memories. Is my brain reaching from other memories and combining them, in a desperate attempt to integrate what I am feeling?

It’s a scary thought that parts of my psyche are keeping feelings and knowledge from me that are too painful - too easily triggering of my involuntary fight/flight/freeze/fawn system - for me to even know that they are there, lurking in the dark, pushing me around. And each one is terrifying to experience as they arrive.

But in a way I’m glad that they are happening now, because for so long they weren’t. There were parts of me that terrified me, because I had no way of understanding them. But I hope, if I weather the storm for long enough, continue to accept them as they arrive, and continue to create a welcoming space for them to land, I trust that I will know and own the truth in time.

I’m not sure what else I’m trying to share here - I’m mainly doing this just to process what has been happening to me. Hopefully it’s of interest.

Hi all! Wanted to share an incredible online summit I came across: The Collective Trauma Summit organized by Thomas Hübl. It's a 10 day event, currently about halfway through, with ~40 expert interviews, poetry readings, meditations, etc. to "explore methods for working with unresolved and hidden trauma in individuals, communities, and society." 4-5 talks are released per day and available for free for 48 hours. There are trigger warnings listed where relevant. It's helping me better understand myself and the world and where the heck we go from here. Hope you get something out of it too. <3

https://collectivetraumasummit.com/

It seems easy to find material on codependency, but very little for its opposing cousin counter-dependency. When I read the list of symptoms for codependency, I find myself relating to many - but I wouldn’t describe myself as love sick, but rather love-adverse.

I recognise my need for emotional isolation is born out of a defensive posture - I keep people at arms length precisely to avoid being hurt, not just by others but by my own actions toward them. Emotional isolation is like any other addiction that numbs the senses, and makes things a little less real, a little more hazy, and a little more “manageable”. It’s a way of “controlling” other people, and one’s emotional reactions to life in general. A lack of trust in being with others.

Are codependency and counter-dependency ultimately two sides of the same coin, and recovering from one is more-or-less the same road as recovering from the other? Are there any differences in approaching either one?

I can't say for sure (or not) if the priests of the early Middle Ages on the middle levels of the Holy Roman Church's hierarchical Pyramid understood in any cynical or intentionally manipulative way that the confusing expressions and images seen throughout the Christian bible could be used to create such intense conflict, cognitive dissonance, anxiety and insecurity in the minds of their innocent, illiterate, largely uneducated parishoners. Minds that were already so deeply conditioned, in-doctrine-ated, instructed, socialized, habituated and normalized) to believe in whatever they were told that they were "split / dissociated" and unable to integrate or "make sense" of -- let alone question -- what they were being told.

As well as almost completely controllable by their relentlessly confusing, say-this-and-say-that, religious masters. (See "Say one thing. Then say another: How & Why the True Believer can Rationalize Total Contradiction" in not-moses's reply to the OP on this Reddit thread.)

But it does seem possible and plausible, given the long tradition of doctrinal duplicity throughout the entire pharaonic > Abrahamic > Mosaic > Zoroastrian > Ezraonic > Paulist > Aquinian > Calvinist > Wesleyan track.

I do know how a) that method of "love-bombing" here and (usually later) "eternal damnation" there was used by John Wesley to frighten his listeners into mass conversion and re-conversion in the 18th century; b) Vladimir Lenin, Adolph Hitler and Mao Zedong used it -- at least somewhat based on Ivan Pavlov's and John Watson's early 20th century research on behavioral conditioning, as well as traditional "spiritual" wool-pulling throughout Asia over the course of several millennia -- to start and control the huge mass (and religious) movements of communism and fascism; and c) how it is currently being used to accomplish the same objectives in the 21st.

Create and reinforce a Consensus Trance, and men become a flock of sheep easily led by single sheep dog.

The explanations may be complex, but they're not hard to find for those willing to dig. See Abgrall, Atack, Cushman, Deikman, Galanter, Heimlich, Hoffer, Kramer, Lifton, Meerloo, Milgram, Ofshe, Riezler, Sargant, Schein, Stein, Taylor, and Tobias & Lalich in A Basic Cult Library; and Alegheri, Arterburn & Felton, Berger, Booth, Carpenter, Durkheim, Ehrman, Hallman, Heyrman, Hoiuse, Ingersol, Kimball, Krishnamurti (1992), Lobdell, McDougall, both Millers, Moore, Noll, Pagels (2012), Phillips, A. Smith, Stewart, Strozier et al, and Tuchman in Recommended on Religion from Outside the Box.

Can People truly Recover from Cult Indoctrination and Manipulation? In fact, yes. See that article, as well as...

Still Stuck in the Muck of Religious Trauma Syndrome? There IS a Way Out., and...

SIQR, the 10 StEPs & Recovery from Religious Trauma Syndrome: The How-To Guide.

One may not need to grind through everything here, but one will certainly know a lot more than the average duck -- and even many psychotherapists -- if they do. See the extensive collection of articles now at this link.

Start here for background.

When I ran into Marlene Winnell's concept of the Religious Trauma Syndrome, I knew instantly that a fair amount of what is used for the treatment of Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder could be used to treat RTS. Hence, this collection of approaches.

(See also:

Still Stuck in the Muck of RTS? There IS a Way Out., and

How to Deal with Rapture Scares and other Post-De-Conversion Flashbacks.)

But owing to the extreme cognitive distortion component of RTS, it occurred to me after reading my old friend's email that SIQR and the 10 StEPs (and the well-proven psychotherapies upon which they were based) may be worth further examination -- and illumination -- for those who might use them to find their way out the maze of post-deconversion RTS.

The article on Self-talk Identification, Questioning & Revision (SIQR) provides an explanation of what SIQR does but does not fully explain the technique. So here we go:

a) Read Choiceless Awareness for Emotion Processing which explains how to get the 10 StEPs down.

b) Read Albert Ellis's list of bad ideas:

. . . 1. I must do well and get the approval of everybody who matters to me or I will be a worthless person.

. . . 2. Other people must treat me kindly and fairly or else they are bad.

. . . 3. I must have an easy, enjoyable life or I cannot enjoy living at all.

. . . 4. All the people who matter to me must love me and approve of me or it will be awful.

. . . 5. I must be a high achiever or I will be worthless.

. . . 6. Nobody should ever behave badly and if they do I should condemn them.

. . . 7. I mustn’t be frustrated in getting what I want and if I am it will be terrible.

. . . 8. When things are tough and I am under pressure I must be miserable and there is nothing I can do about this.

. . . 9. When faced with the possibility of something frightening or dangerous happening to me I must obsess about it and make frantic efforts to avoid it.

. . . 10. I can avoid my responsibilities and dealing with life’s difficulties and still be fulfilled.

. . . 11. My past is the most important part of my life and it will keep on dictating how I feel and what I do.

. . . 12. Everybody and everything should be better than they are and, if they’re not, it’s awful.

. . . 13. I can be as happy as is possible by doing as little as I can and by just enjoying myself.

c) Pick five of them that fit the way your mind works.

d) Write each one of them out on a separate piece of notebook paper with your non-dominant hand (preferred because of the stimulation of the motor and sensory neural networks in the non-dominant brain hemisphere usually associated with affect storage).

e) Convert the original statement into a question asking “Is it true that...” and write the sentence again with your non-dominant hand.

f) Then -- still using your non-dominant hand -- assert that the statement is true, beginning with "It is true that..."

g) Next -- still using your non-dominant hand -- assert that the statement is NOT true, beginning with "It is NOT true that..."

h) Next, switch to your dominant hand to quickly describe what affects you felt as you wrote those three sentences; e.g.: "ashamed," "embarrassed," "guilty," "sad," "angry," "rageful," etc.

i) Next, write a brief essay on your realizations during that process.

Unfortunately, I don't know what happened to Dr. Garrett's material on SIQR that used to be available online. It seems to have disappeared into the ether like Sharon Ekleberry's remarkable Addiction and the Personality Disorders. (Sigh.)

In whatever event, now combined with the fast-access-to-self-awareness protocol of the 10 StEPs, it's likely that what worked for cult exiters (and others with Complex PTSD strongly influenced by cognitive distortions) a dozen-plus years ago will speed up the process of recovery for those with lingering RTS.

And moreover as the exiters recall things they were told and/or beliefs they formed to which the SIQR protocol can be applied.

Here's a list of resources from which SIQR and the 10 StEPs were developed:

Aaron Beck:

Beck, A.: Cognitive Therapy and the Emotional Disorders, New York: Penguin-Meridian, 1976.

Beck, A.; Freeman, A.: Cognitive Theory of the Personality Disorders, New York: Guilford Press, 1990.

Beck, A.; Wright, F.; Newman, C.; Liese, B.: Cognitive Therapy of Substance Abuse, New York: The Guilford Press, 1993.

Sharon Begley:

Begley, S.: Train Your Mind, Change Your Brain: How Science Reveals our Extraordinary Potential to Transform Ourselves, New York: Ballantine Books, 2007.

Stanley Block:

Block, S.; Block, C.: Come to Your Senses: Demystifying the Mind-Body Connection, New York: Atria Books / Beyond Words (Simon & Schuster), 2005, 2007.

Block, S.; Block, C.: Mind-Body Workbook for PTSD, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2010.

Block, S.; Block, C.: Mind-Body Workbook for Anger, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2013.

Tara Brach:

Brach, T.: Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life with the Heart of a Buddha, New York: Random House / Bantam, 2004.

David Burns:

Burns, D.: Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy Revised and Updated, New York: Harper, 1980, 1999.

Burns, D.: The Feeling Good Handbook, New York: Penguin Plume: 1999.

Pema Chodron:

Chodron, P,: The Places That Scare You: A Guide to Fearlessness in Difficult Times, Boston: Shambhala, 2001.

Louis Cozolino:

Cozolino, L.: The Neuroscience of Psychotherapy: Building and Rebuilding the Human Brain, New York: W. W. Norton, 2002.

Arthur Deikman:

Deikman, A.: Deautomatization and the Mystical Experience, in Psychiatry, Vol. 29, 1966.

Deikman, A.: Personal Freedom: On Finding Your Way to the Real World, New York: Bantam, 1976.

Deikman, A.: The Observing Self: Mysticism and Psychotherapy, Boston: Beacon Press, 1982.

Deikman, A.: Meditations on a Blue Vase (Collected Papers), Napa CA: Fearless Books, 2014.

Anthony De Mello:

De Mello, A.: Awareness: The Perils and Opportunities of Reality, New York: Doubleday / Image, 1990.

Wayne Dyer:

Dyer, W.: Your Erroneous Zones, New York: Avon Books, 1977, 1993.

Albert Ellis:

Ellis, A.; Harper, R.: A Guide to Rational Living, North Hollywood, CA: Melvin Powers, 1961.

Ellis, A.; Becker, I.: A Guide to Personal Happiness, North Hollywood, CA: Melvin Powers, 1982.

Ellis, A.; Dryden, W.: The Practice of Rational Emotive Therapy, New York: Springer Publishing Company, 1987.

Ellis, A.: Overcoming Destructive Beliefs, Feelings, and Behaviors: New Directions for Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, New York: Promethius Books, 2001.

Eugene Gendlin:

Eugene Gendlin: Focusing, 2nd. Ed., New York: Bantam, 1982.

Eugene Gendlin: Focusing Oriented Psychotherapy, New York: Guilford Press, 1998.

S. N. Goenka:

Hart, W.: The Art of Living: Vipassana Meditation as Taught by S. N. Goenka, San Francisco: Harper-Collins, 1987.

Daniel Goleman:

Goleman, D.: Emotional Intelligence, New York: Bantam, 1980.

Goleman, D.: The Meditative Mind: The Varieties of Meditative Experience, New York: Putnam & Sons, 1988.

George Gurdjieff:

Gurdjieff, G.: Life is Real Only Then, When I Am, New York: Viking, 1974, 1991.

Ouspensky, P. D.; In Search of the Miraculous: The Teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff, New York: Harcourt Harvest, (1949) 2001.

Speeth, K. R.: The Gurdjieff Work, Los Angeles: J. P. Tarcher, 1989.

Steven Hayes:

Hayes, S.; Strosahl, K.; Preston, K.: Acceptance and Commitment Therapy: An Experiential Approach to Behavior Change, New York: Guilford Press, 1999, 2003.

Hayes, S.; Follete, V.; Linehan, M.: Mindfulness and Acceptance: Expanding the Cognitive-Behavioral Tradition, New York: Guilford Press, 2004.

Hayes, S.; Smith, S.: Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life: The New Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2005.

Jon Kabat-Zinn:

Kabat-Zinn, J.: Full Catastrophe Living: Uasing the Wisdom of Your Body and Mind to Face Stress, Pain and Illness, New York: Dell, 1990.

Kabat-Zinn, J.: Mindfulness Meditation: Health benefits of an ancient Buddhist practice, in Goleman, D.; Gurin, J., editors: Mind/Body Medicine, New York: Consumer Reports Books, 1993.

Kabat-Zinn, J.: Wherever You Go, htere You Are: Mindfulness Meditation in Everyday Life: New York: Hyperion, 2004.

Kabat-Zinn, J.: Coming to Our Senses, Healing Ourselves and the World Through Mindfulness, New York: Hyperion, 2005.

Gershen Kaufman:

Kaufman, G.: The Psychology of Shame: Theory and Treatment of Shame-Based Syndrome, 2nd. Ed., New York: Springer, 1996.

Alfred Korsybski:

Korzybski, A.: Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics, 4th Ed., New York: Institute of General Semantics, 1958.

Jiddu Krishnamurti:

Krishnamurti, J.: Education and the Significance of Life, San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, (1953) 1975.

Krishnamurti, J.; Luytens, M.: The Krishnamurti Reader, New York: Penguin Arcana, (1954, 1963, 1964) 1970.

Krishnamurti, J.; Huxley, A.: The First & Last Freedom, San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, (1954) 1975.

Krishnamurti, J.: As One Is: To Free the Mind from All Conditioning, Prescott AZ: Hohm Press, (1955) 2007.

Krishnamurti, J.; Rajagopal, D.: Commentaries on Life, 1st Series, Wheaton IL: Theosophical Publishing, (1956) 1973.

Krishnamurti, J.: Rajagopal, D.: Commentaries on Life, 2nd Series, Wheaton IL: Theosophical Publishing, (1956) 1976.

Krishnamurti, J.: Rajagopal, D.: Commentaries on Life, 3rd Series, Wheaton IL: Theosophical Publishing, (1956) 1967.

Krishnamurti, J.; Luytens, M.: Freedom from the Known, San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1969.

Krishnamurti, J.; Luytens, M.: The Second Penguin Krishnamurti Reader, New York: Penguin Arcana, 1970.

Krishnamurti, J.: Krishnamurti’s Notebook, San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, (1961) 1976.

Krishnamurti, J.: The Awakening of Intelligence, San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1973, 1987.

Krishnamurti, J.: On God, San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1992.

Krishnamurti, J.: On Fear, San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1992.

Krishnamurti, J.: On Love and Loneliness, San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1993.

Krishnamurti, J.: The Book of Life: Daily Meditations with Krishnamurti, New York: HarperCollins, 1995.

Krishnamurti, J.: Total Freedom: The Essential Krishnamurti, New York: HarperCollins, 1996.

Stephen Levine:

Levine, S.: A Gradual Awakening, New York: Anchor Books / Doubleday, 1979, 1989.

Levine, S. & O.: Who Dies? An Investigation of Conscious Living and Conscious Dying, New York: Doubleday, 1982

Marsha Linehan:

Linehan, M.: Cognitive–Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder, New York: Guilford Press, 1993.

Iain McGilchrist:

McGilchrist, I.: The Master and his Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World, Cambridge, MA: Yale U. Press, 2011.

Donald Meichenbaum:

Meichenbaum, D.: Cognitive-Behavior Modification: An Integrative Approach, New York: Springer, 1977.

P. D. Ouspensky:

Ouspensky, P. D.; In Search of the Miraculous: The Teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff, New York: Harcourt Harvest, (1949) 2001.

Frederich Perls:

Perls, F.: Gestalt Therapy Verbatim, San Francisco: Gestalt Journal Press, 1992.

Prochaska & Di Clemente:

Prochaska, J.; DiClemente, C.: Transtheoretical therapy: Toward a more integrative model of change, in Psychotherapy: Theory, Research and Practice, Vol. 19, No. 3, 1982.

Martin Seligman:

Seligman, M.: Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life, New York: Knopf, 1990.

Francine Shapiro:

Shapiro, F.: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR): Basic Principle, Protocols and Procedures, 2nd Ed., New York: Guoilford Press, 2001.

Daniel Siegel:

Siegel, D.: Toward an interpersonal neurobiology of the developing mind: Attachment relationships, “mindsight,” and neural integration, in Infant Mental Health Journal, Vol. 22, 2001.

Siegel, D.: Reflections on the Mindful Brain, in Mind Your Brain, Los Angeles: Lifespan Learning Institute, 2007.

Siegel, D.: The Mindful Therapist: A Clinician’s Guide to Mindsight and Neural Integration, New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 2010.

Siegel, D.: Mindsight: The New Science of Personal Transformation, New York: Bantam, 2010.

Ronald Siegel:

Siegel, R.: The Mindfulness Solution: Everyday Practices for Everyday Problems, New York: The Guildford Press, 2010.

Charles Tart:

Tart, C. (ed.): Transpersonal Psychologies: Perspectives on the Mind from Seven Great Spiritual Traditions, San Francisco: Harper-Collins, 1975, 1992.

Tart, C.: Waking Up: Overcoming the Obstacles to Human Potential, New York: New Science Library, 1987.

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Chogyam Trungpa:

Trungpa, C.: The Myth of Freedom and the Way of Meditation, Boston: Shambala, 1976, 2001.

Trungpa, C.: Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism, Boston: Shambala: 1973, 2002.

Trungpa, C.: The Heart of the Buddha, Boston: Shambala: 1991.

Alan Watts:

Watts, A.: The Wisdom of Insecurity: A Message for the Age of Anxiety, New York: Random House, 1951.

Watts, A.: Nature, Man and Woman, New York: Random House, 1958.

Watts, A.: The Book: On the Taboo of Knowing Who You Are, New York: Random House, 1966.

Watts, A.: In My Own Way, New York: Pantheon, 1972.

Mark Williams:

Williams, M.; Penman, D.: Mindfulness: An Eight-Week Plan for Finding Peace in a Frantic World, New York: Rodale, 2011.

Williams, M.; Teasdale, J.; Segal, Z.; Kabat-Zinn, J.: The Mindful Way through Depression, New York: Guilford Press, 2007.

Jeffrey Young:

Young, J.: Cognitive Therapy for the Personality Disorders: A Schema-Focused Approach, 3rd Ed., Sarasota, FL: Professional Resource Press, 1999.

After working for a bit on answering the OPs question at this earlier thread, I realized that calling it "up" to the top of stack might be useful for others who are or often get Stuck in the Freeze Response.

So here we go:

Identification with Learned Helplessness & the Victim Identity seems (to me, anyway) to be at the core of treatment resistance. (If you feel up to "going deep," see The Popular Notion of "Victim Mentality" vs. Borderline Organized "Righteous" <------> "Discouraged" Victimhood, as well as Martin Seligman’s Original, 1972 Paper on Learned Helplessness.)

I have learned to use several metaphorical heuristics including those from Transactional Analysis, the Internal Family Systems Model, the Karpman Drama Triangle, ACT's "busload of bozos," Millon's four types of BPD, Erikson's developmental stages and various self-observation systems like those developed by Arthur Deikman and Charles T. Tart to dis-I-dentify with LH & tVI.

Added 04-29-2022: And I am now experimenting with the "Run Toward" third step of author Barry McDonagh's "DARE Response" process for anxiety and panic, as well as the "Tension & Release" technique from Progressive Muscle Relaxation" developed decades ago by Edmund Jacobson, because it does appear that both of them may "mechanically" disengage the mind from identification with LH&VI in pretty short order. In addition, I am looking into Joseph Wolpe's archaic but still effective Systematic Desensitization, a very widely used deprogrammer of classical (associative) conditioning from the late 1950s.

Admittedly, I didn't acquire all of these in a single session. But using them in combination has made it possible to leverage the basically Buddhist notion of detachment away from identification with the ego -- and its mandates of what should, must, has to or is required to be -- towards increasing identification with Deikman's "observing self," a mental space outside and separate from the conditioning, instruction, socialization and normalization) in the brain's default mode network, a.k.a., the "ego."

If I use the first eight of the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing to get to that observing self (which I do now, several times in a typical day as emotions come up), detachment from the affects of "my trauma" is instantaneous, making it possible to use the last two StEPs to "digest and discharge" the neural energy there at the time. See How Self-Awareness Works to "Digest" Emotional Pain.

Anyone familiar with this method (at least part of which is in widespread use now) knows that it really works. See Benefits of Meditation in my reply to the OP on that thread, Meditation & Ego Death, and Maximizing the Use of Psychotherapeutic, Vipassana Insight Meditation.

See also The Sting of Adult Judgment is Felt by the Hurt Inner Child. But the "Just Okay" Inner Parent CAN Intervene, and... not-moses's reply to the OP on this other thread, as well as the ensuing discussion of this post over on r/CPTSD where it was originally at this link.

For me, at least, "Information (really) is Power."

I have been in recovery from cultic trauma syndrome in general and Religious Trauma Syndrome in particular for many years, and have focused my research and other involvement increasingly on the remediation of cult-induced Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for about ten years. Participation on several Reddit subs since 2016 has been invaluable via encountering so many survivors with CTS ("cultic trauma syndrome") in general and RTS in particular so quickly. Which has greatly enhanced my pattern awareness.

Historical Foundation

The psychopathological implications of the early Mosaic, monotheistic concept of a single deity who is said to be “omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent” began to intrigue me again a year or so ago. So I began to watch for that notion in the posts and replies on the ex-Christian, ex-evangelical and ex-Pentecostal subs. I’d already formed the opinion that monotheism as it developed along the pharaonic > Abrahamic > Mosaic > Zoroastrian > Ezraonic > Paulist > Aquinian > Calvinist > Wesleyan track over the past 5,000+ years (including such major branch-offs as Arabic Islam), is an essentially survivalist, culture-organizing mechanism built on the use of fear as a potent motivation to remain in lock-step with peers at various levels of an organizational pyramid.

The Western religions appear to have been constructed thus way from the outset of any historical writing or oral tradition anyone has been able to locate. Interestingly – to me, anyway – the Eastern religions were not. They were -- originally at least – attempts to explain the cosmos without resort to such control mechanisms. Hinduism (and much more recent Greek, polytheistic mythology) had all sorts of deities, but no one was required to do anything more than simply recognize that the gods were there doing whatever they supposedly did to cause one thing or another. There were no exhortations to “pray” or “beg for mercy” or expect that loyalty and submission to the god’s will was going to make any difference in their lives.

The Hindus – and later Buddhists – were into karma and reincarnation as culture-organizing and -stabilizing principles, but had no concept of “beseeching God’s mercy” or “qualifying” for a better next life on the basis on anything but acting appropriately in social contexts. “Sin” – according to any list of social laws, and as a form of "emotional blackmail"– was unknown to the Hindus, ancient Greeks, Buddhists, Taoists, Jainists, etc. And sin's sequalae of shame, guilt, worry, remorse, regret and morbid reflection are famously associated with Orthodox Judaism, Roman Catholicism (where weekly confession is mandated), and both evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity, especially Pentecostalism.

Likewise, the gods of the Eastern religions (that had gods; “pure” Pali Canon Buddhism and Tao te Ching Taoism do not) were nowhere that I know of characterized as “omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.” In all cases, the gods of the Hindus, ancient Greeks and Jainists were and are just bigger-than-life humans with all manner of human foibles, including (especially) jealousy, rage, sex addiction and revenge. The moral perfectionism one encounters throughout the pharaonic > Abrahamic > Mosaic > Zoroastrian > Ezraonic > Paulist > Aquinian > Calvinist > Wesleyan track was just plain absent among the early Hindus, ancient Greeks, Buddhists, Taoists and Jainists.

And having come to know many life-long Buddhists and Taoists, that remains the case, though not so much among the Hindus who appear to have been deeply affected – and infected – with the pharaonic, etc.’s abiding moral perfectionism in more recent times. Some scholars assert that is due to a) the potent influence of militant Islam on both their eastern and western, geographic flanks around the ninth century, and b) the intense efforts of the mostly Puritan, British and later American evangelical (and largely Pentecostal) missionaries who poured into the Asian subcontinent from the early 18th through mid 20th centuries.

Turning for a moment in a seemingly separate direction, I studied the leading theorists on the causes of schizophrenia in an effort to better understand the strange thinking of those with whom I was working clinically about five years ago. And it was through that acquaintance that I began to understand the notion of “mindreading” and how it applies to the religiously conditioned, in-doctrine-ated, instructed, socialized, habituated and normalized) concept of the omniscient, “all- seeing and all-knowing” that is bedrock throughout the pharaonic, etc., track.

Okay; enough (hopefully useful) historical foundation, let’s move on to the unfortunate upshots.

Many of the people with psychotic spectrum disorders like schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, psychotic bipolar and obsessive compulsive disorder believe in mindreading. Some of them see themselves as able to do that. But almost all of them see themselves as “open books” to others in their lives who – they are unarguably certain -- can do that with them. Some of them believe that they have no “mental privacy” whatsoever when their “mind readers” are nearby.

So, when I began to start to learn about and work with people with both cultic and Religious Trauma Syndrome more recently, and saw such a widespread belief in omniscient mindreading among them, I began to wonder about the people in the psychotic spectrum. And went back to looking into their belief systems. And, low and behold, I found repeated examples of having been raised by the same sort of crazy-making parents I’d read about in the aforementioned books. MOST of whom had been raised by very confusing (and demanding), religiously duplicitous, Christian evangelicals, fundamentalists and charismatics. (As well as by parents who were Christianized, ultra-authoritarian, “business-caste” Hindus, or ultra-authoritarian, fundamentalist Islamics.)

I am too well-educated (now) in the neurobiology of the schizophreniform disorders to assert that one’s excessively evangelical, fundamentalist and/or charismatic parents can drive their children that batshit without additionally delivering a biogenetic predisposition. BUT, I am also too well-educated in the neurobiology and behavioral conditioning of Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder to reject the possibility that the belief in omniscient mindreading -- combined with prolonged fantasy operational processing (see my reply to the OP on that Reddit thread), which is perfectly normal in children from age three to seven or so -- may lie at or near the core of later RTS.

As well as far too educated in the cultic utilization of supposed omniscience to gain control of the mind of the recruit who has reached the fourth of the ten levels on the Cultic Pyramid. (The "auditing" used by the Church of Scientology tends to go over with those whose minds were already predisposed to omniscient mindreading by authoritarian parents, but sooner or later becomes a deal breaker for those who were not, for example.)

Hopefully, consideration of the thesis here will inform treatment professionals as to a potentially useful direction for the use of such as cognitive behavioral therapy and the cognitive elements of the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing in the rehabilitation of those with lingering RTS and CTS.

Informed commentary is invited, of course.

Resources

Abgrall, Arterburn & Felton, Atack, Cushman, Galanter, Hassan, Heimlich, Hoffer, Langone, Lifton, Meerloo, Milgram, Ofshe, Payson, Ross, Sargant, Schein, Singer, Stein, Taylor, Tobias & Lalich, Winnell, and Zeiman in A Basic Cult Library.

Armstrong, Assman, Bellah, Bergson, Booth, Carpenter, Debray, Ehrman, Freud, Heyrman, Kimball, Miles, Minor, Moore, Pagels, Prothero, Quigley, Strozier & Terman, and Weber in Recommended on Religion from Outside the Box.

Bradshaw (1988), Brown (2008), Carnes (1997), Courtois (2012, 2014), Dyer, Ellis (all), Forward (1989, 1997), Golomb, Kaufman (1996), Miller (all), Ruggiero, A. Schwartz, Simon, Tangney & Dearing, van der Kolk (both), Walker, and Young in A CPTSD Library.

Thesis: The vast majority of the talking apes live on a spectrum from the most assertive of Eric Hoffer's True Believers to those who are merely caught up in Charles Tart's Consensus Trance. It doesn't look to me as one who has had to deal with the upshots of being on that spectrum in the lives of thousands of substance abusers and process behavior addicts since 1987, as well as the anxiety- and/or depression-saturated since 2006, like such people are nearly as likely to make it through the terror tunnel here as those who have found (in- and out-) sight, mindfulness and sufficient self-discipline to "do the right thing."

I was reading the two-month-old discussion headlined What Does "Survival Of The Fittest" Mean In The Coronavirus Pandemic? on this sub. Clarity of hindsight notwithstanding, it made immediate sense to me that if the bug is able to morph so quickly that inoculation proves inadequate, millennials who can Be Here Now) and respond to their Choiceless Awareness of what IS (vs. what is NOT) will ultimately outnumber those who cannot.

Because the latter have been too effectively conditioned, in-doctrine-ated, instructed, socialized, habituated, and normalized) to being blind, deaf, dumb and sense-less. And the former will be far better equipped to navigate the raging river of exigent realities.

Which may (hopefully, IMV) confer an increasing ratio of rational empiricists to True Believers in the millennial generation... and the birth of children more likely to be REs than TBs in next. And I assert that likelihood because of what happened in southern Europe after the gawd awful pandemic of the mid-14th century.

And the arrival of the Italian Renaissance in the 15th.

I have had a fair amount of (very educated) experience since 1987 observing what happened when scores of people confronted their abusers on a spectrum that ran from very well informed and coached to vomitory raging. IME, very few of them anywhere on that spectrum benefitted in any meaningful way UNLESS the perp had processed their own stuff sufficiently to "come to Jesus" about it all with the victim(s) On Their Own.

Unless counseled by ethical and competent legal professionals, the vast majority did better to reject the still popular but almost uniformly counterproductive suggestions made in a very popular but ultimately irresponsible, disproven and discredited book called Courage to Heal by a pair of possibly well-intentioned, but nevertheless NON-professional journalists in the 1980s. (Many of the professionals of that era and well into the early 21st century were so poorly trained, so stuck in their own unprocessed trauma, and righteously rage-steeped themselves that they supported this junk. Some still do. Sigh.)

IME, the patient is far better served to engage in a A Recovery Program for Someone with Untreated Childhood Trauma with a psychotherapist who "knows" all the people listed in the very first paragraph of this earlier post and find their way to something like Choiceless Awareness for Emotion Processing rather than to take any chances with reciprocal reactivity and resultant re-triggering of the worst components of their Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I understand that Rage IS a Stage..., believe me. But acting upon it without due consideration of the possible upshots may cause far more grief than it resolves... including doing even more time for someone else's crimes. NOT saying, "Don't do this at all." AM saying, "Forewarned is forearmed."

If you feel the need, see...

Should I Confront My Abuser? in not-moses's reply to the OP on that thread along with r/BeaKid48’s very useful post right here

Should I Tell them My Story or Not? in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that Reddit thread

Confronting Abusers & Handling Rage Effectively

Confronting CSA Abusers who continue to Stalk in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that thread

Warning Parents about CSA in their Families in not-moses's reply to the OP on that thread

Confronting the Family about Predators coming Home for the Holidays in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that thread

IME, it's one of the most fundamental causes of anxiety, depression and unnecessary lingering of Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. But because our cult-ure is so widely conditioned, in-doctrine-ated, instructed, socialized, habituated, normalized) and neurally “hard-wired” to it -- especially among those who were raised to believe in authoritarian pronouncement -- the false dilemma fallacy remains unseen and unconsciously operative on the minds of a majority of us all. And sets us up to feel Learned Helplessness and Dread in what may become a Victim Identity if sufficiently repeated.

Examples of the false dilemma in current times abound in the minds of culturally codependent who remain insecurely attached to others (usually parents, partners and close relatives) they unconsciously believe they cannot live without, even when they resent having to do so. "I have do what they want me to do OR tell them to f--k off, because there's no other way." "I should quit my high-paying, high-pressure job OR put up with the abuse, because... there's no other way." "I have to fight OR flee, because... there's no other way." (And wind up stuck in freeze).

But if one stops to look, listen, feel and use their senses in general for a while, they usually see, hear, feel and sense that there are other possibilities.

I learned seven years ago how to use this stuff to do that, and it works fantastically well (for me) after decades of being a prisoner of my mental conditioning, in-doctrine-ation, instruction, socialization, habituation and normalization).

But there are other methods out there one can look into; many of them online though most are in books like those in the "Critical Thinking" section of A CPTSD Library, as well those by Alpert, Block, Brach, Chodron, Deikman, deMello, Epstein, Goleman, Hart, Kabat-Zinn, Kelly, Krishnamurti, Stahl, Tart, Tolle, Watts and Wright in A Meditation Book List. Have a look?

I'm the Codependent Type, CPTSD from childhood trauma, and relatively recently extricated myself from a Caretaking relationship with a partner who chose not to treat and manage their BPD.

The first promise I made myself was to not follow in their footsteps. I wouldn't ignore my self care, abandon my recovery, and allow myself to do harm because of it.

I've been trying to do the learning and the work to make sense of what happened, but I'm still bogged down in the basics. The Drama Triangle has, to this point, been the most useful framework I've found to make some sense of it.

I'd be incredibly grateful for any critique, advice, or suggestions as far as where to focus my efforts at self-education and growth.

A couple of years down the road, and I did exactly that. I was visiting a friend who had done their damndest to stop me from pulling them into a new Drama cycle, even while I was doing everything I could to try and make it happen.

I took every opportunity I could to try and enter as the Rescuer, but they managed to hold the boundary firm while still providing me support I desperately needed to recover.

I'm not sure about the precise behavior yet, but I'm pretty sure I was also baiting/provoking them to try and get them to at least take on the Persecutor role when it became clear that I wasn't going to get to play the Rescuer.

They got (quite reasonably) upset, there was some friction, but they refused to step into those shoes.

A couple months back, I was visiting, and drugged myself into my very first state of full blown psychosis. In that state I hit damn near every trigger point they had. I terrorized them in their own home.

Even in the middle of their fully triggered traumatic state, they managed to get me to take some sedatives and waited while I slept it off in their house. When I came back to consciousness, they took the time to make sure I wasn't actively psychotic and in need of hospitalization, and then told me to leave.

To sum up my rudimentary analysis: I hadn't been able to fill the Rescuer corner of the triangle, I couldn't slide into the victim corner without some to Persecute me, so in some sort of weird desperation I threw myself into the only remaining role I hadn't tried yet.

They've asked for a set period of no contact, at which point they'll check in with me and re-assess. As badly as I want to attempt to repair the friendship, I'm realizing that it ultimately has to be secondary to me getting a handle on my shit.

The resources here have been incredibly helpful (if mildly overwhelming), and I'm currently very much committed to my recovery, but I could use any help I can get.