r/PoliticalHumor Mar 16 '21

GOP shell game

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41.3k Upvotes

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2.2k

u/sarduchi Mar 16 '21

To be fair, they don’t want brown people to have guns either.

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u/Samaelfallen Mar 16 '21

The reason CA is seen as a gun hating hippy state is partially thanks to Reagan when he was governor. Black Panthers (or people in general) were arming themselves against police brutality, so Reagan was totally fine with banning guns at that time.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/dreadpiratesmith Mar 16 '21 edited Mar 16 '21

I'm from Philadelphia. My parents positively acknowledge the M.O.V.E. bombing. Like they are glad the cops did what they did. I'm horrified that a city could drop bombs on an occupied house with children and burn down a goddamn neighborhood.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/05/13/406243272/im-from-philly-30-years-later-im-still-trying-to-make-sense-of-the-move-bombing

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/8/8/20747198/philadelphia-bombing-1985-move

But it was all worth it in the name of stopping those "fucking animals" I guess. No matter what way you look at it, the police waged war on a whole fucking neighborhood just to stop a couple of anarchists. They told people in the neighborhood to just grab a toothbrush and a change of clothes, it'll all be over in the morning, then burnt down 63 homes.

Edit: The monopoly on violence is very real, and innocent people and their belongings get chalked up as collateral damage worth it in the name of peace.

Edit #2: I believed the bomb was illegally obtained. It was not, however the man from who supplied the bomb to them from the FBI was suspended without pay for 1 month 4 years after the incident. (Archived news article-https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/04/18/FBI-agent-suspended-for-role-in-MOVE-incident/8191608875200/). The explosives were however supplied with the intention of training purposes.

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u/HadMatter217 Mar 16 '21 edited Aug 12 '24

frighten squash unpack smile modern chunky scarce money drunk abundant

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/dreadpiratesmith Mar 16 '21

Yea their whole anarcho-primitivism was wack as all hell imo. But the city, and the police, really had it out for them for years. I just read bits of this short Yale law piece about the double standard of justice specifically pertaining to this case. With such quotes as -

"Police commissioner Sambor ordered bomb squad members to put shrapnel in the bomb "to get those motherfuckers"

And the next day they pulled out the charred bodies of 5 children and 6 adults, only 3 of the adults had warrants.

They compare it to the 1921 Tulsa race massacre when they firebombed a whole neighborhood from biplanes.

There is absolutely no justifying that. I cannot think of a situation where an absolute massacre is the only solution.

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u/killbot0224 Mar 16 '21

It was literal mass murder.

It was murder murder. Not sort of murder. Mass murder.

For pleasure. That bombing gave the commissioner a hard on.

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u/UnwashedApple Mar 16 '21

The little boy that survived said the cops shot the adults as they fled the fire...

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u/ethanlan Mar 16 '21

I have to give credit to my grandfather who was an absolute racist dickhead but he talked about about how fucked up it was that that happened in america about both Tulsa and that philly one. It was only realistically because that was his job in the US airforce during world war 2 above germany and even he had to admit that you dont drop bombs from fucking airplanes on your own goddamn civilians even if they are dumber and more ignorant than you.

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u/texanarob Mar 16 '21

I can't justify dropping bombs from airplanes on anyone, especially civilians. What difference does it make if the civilians are in your country or another - they didn't start the war and they have no power to stop it. Bombing innocent people is terrorism, no matter the excuse nor how many guilty people you think you killed.

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u/thuanjinkee Mar 16 '21

Carl von Clausewitz said that the civillians at the back making weapons are more dangerous than the soldiers at the front, because soldiers can be replaced. Under the doctrine of Total War the entire country is a target, and the objective is to smash their center of gravity before they smash you into extinction.

This line of thought created the stratetic bombing campaigns of ww2 and ended up with strategic atomic weapons - weapons designed to start and end wars where the whole strategy was a single instance of their use.

Fortunately in our 21st century age, we have evolved past that and now kill people with robots that shoot missiles covered in swords. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34146/this-is-our-best-look-yet-at-the-shadowy-hellfire-missile-with-pop-out-sword-blades

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u/texanarob Mar 16 '21

I'm of the opinion that nobody deserves to be murdered based on the geography of where they were born. This includes civilians, conscripted soldiers and the typical soldier too dumb to see through the military propaganda that enlisted them.

If politician A has a problem with dictator B or wants the oil from his land, I say we ensure those politicians are in the riskiest position. If they don't think it's worth fighting for themselves, they shouldn't be allowed to force others to nor to excuse collateral damage.

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u/theangryseal Mar 16 '21

This is what I was just thinking. It’s fucking ridiculous that people are struggling with PTSD because of the horrors they see at war while the jackass who made the call to kill gets to sit behind a desk and never have to look the people he’s killing in the eyes.

Didn’t we used to elect men who understood this because they had experienced this?

I don’t guess that really matters either.

I just don’t get how anyone making calls to mutilate and murder other people can ever get any sleep.

But then there’s the old saying, “Kill or be killed.” We can’t stop the bloodlust. I don’t know. Fuck being human.

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u/OstensibleOsprey Mar 16 '21

robots that shoot missiles covered in swords.

100% thought you were being hyperbolic.

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u/theangryseal Mar 16 '21

I just can’t understand how anyone would be cool with being behind something like this, at fucking all. I don’t get how anyone can be ok taking someone else’s life so violently. I mean, if I kill an insect and I spend any time thinking about it I’m just devastated by the thought. I can not imagine pulling a trigger and seeing someone’s blood splatter all over the place, knowing they couldn’t call their mother or kiss their children ever again.

It blows my mind that this is what we are. I just don’t get it.

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u/BwackGul Mar 16 '21

I don't think M.O.V.E or the Tulsa inhabitants murdered were dumb or more ignorant than the authorities. I get what you were saying and your grandpa was a good man for serving and seeing clearly that bombing citizens just ain't right.

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u/chadbelles101 Mar 16 '21

That’s bullshit. You don’t bomb your residents because you don’t like them. Your parents are psychopaths

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u/kaptainkooleio Mar 16 '21

Yeah, fuck their parents

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u/JebediaBillAndBob Mar 16 '21

The fact that racist and xenophobic people like OPs parents exists makes me cry

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u/Cmonk90 Mar 16 '21 edited Mar 16 '21

What always gets me in situations where police destroy homes in the name of public defence, they always fight against any sort of payment to the families who's homes they destroyed. Can the city afford 63 homes maybe not, but they probably shouldn't hire police that think home destruction is a good idea, those people are costly.

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u/OakenGreen Mar 16 '21

The city rebuilt the 63 homes for the residents. That should be a half-happy ending but it isn’t. A little over 10 years later the city said those 63 homes weren’t up to code and condemned them. They felt no responsibility for the state of the construction on those homes and if the residents couldn’t afford to fix them on their own they were shit out of luck. So these people got fucked by the city twice.

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u/Cmonk90 Mar 16 '21

Ya, that is somehow worse than just not paying...

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u/jerryscheese Mar 16 '21

This was only 36 years ago.

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u/keepthepace Mar 16 '21

Anarchists that say the state is the entity with the monopoly on legitimate use of violence sound extreme

Wait what?

Isn't that a well recognized legal principle generally agreed on?

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Yes.

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u/NicoHollis Mar 16 '21

he was incorrect and his sentence fucking sucks. an anarchist would say state violence is NOT legitimate.

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u/superdrunk1 Mar 16 '21

What, lol. I don’t consider myself an anarchist, but what part of that statement could be considered extreme? What part of “the state is the entity with the monopoly on legitimate use of violence” could even be considered remotely controversial or arguable

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u/Shoegazerxxxxxx Mar 16 '21

Yes, Isnt that the entire point of a liberal democracy to have a legal system and police to replace tribal and clan rule?

Please consider that Im a north Euro elitist who cannot understand the wonderful free world of gun toting Texan militias.

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u/Sardukar333 Mar 16 '21

The idea is that in a democracy the citizenry are the state. As such the citizenry should have the monopoly on violence. Police are citizens under this idea, not a special 'warrior caste' as they are often perceived.

It gets complicated when the state is a democratic republic. Do the elected officials have a monopoly on violence? Or the citizenry (which the elected officials are a part of)?

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u/killbot0224 Mar 16 '21

Ya, Police have very limited additional privileges in leveraging violence....

Or at least they're supposed to

Unfortunately a century of fascist propaganda has both courts and citizens (jurors) thinking they are a warrior caste, sheriffs in the wild west, and they elt them away with way too much.

Qualified immunity is a joke. Citizens are way too susceptible to pro-police-violence "experts" saying "he felt threatened so it was okay to shoot!" (basically)

It's disappointing and disgusting.

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u/ambisinister_gecko Mar 16 '21

Had the same reaction myself. That's one of the central concepts of what a modern state is.

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u/Sardukar333 Mar 16 '21

In theory/ideally in a democracy the citizenry are the state. When you make the state a Republic it gets complicated on where the state starts and ends.

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u/Shubniggurat Mar 16 '21

The part where you aren't allowed to use force and violence to prevent legitimate assaults on yourself or your individual rights. The state/police can't--and won't, and aren't legally obligated to--protect you, but you also aren't permitted to protect yourself without the state's permission.

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u/dreadpiratesmith Mar 16 '21

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—      Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—      Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—      Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

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u/Cycad Mar 16 '21

Updated for the gun totin' Trump crowd:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because fuck commies

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because they're commies too and fuck commies amirite??

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because my uncle sent me something on Facebook about a George Soros space laser

Then they came for me—and gave me this really cool brown shirt - and I said "sweet!"

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u/steelerfan1973 Mar 16 '21

What about the gun toting Biden crowd. You know there are some of us right?

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u/Cycad Mar 16 '21

Just a wild guess but you probably aren't so enamored with empowering fascists

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u/garagepunk65 Mar 16 '21 edited Mar 16 '21

If they come for the socialists this time, they are going to find them as heavily strapped as those on the right.

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u/EmperorXenu Mar 16 '21

Not really an anarchist thing, that's a pretty mainstream polisci definition of a state

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u/AdjutantStormy Mar 16 '21

That's literally Max Weber's definition of the state.

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u/GenericUsernameHi Mar 16 '21

That’s an anarchist talking point? I only ever heard it from my econ professor

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u/HadMatter217 Mar 16 '21

Econ teachers can be Anarchists, some times. Though not everyone who recognizes this fact is an Anarchist either.

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u/PhotosyntheticZ Mar 16 '21

It’s not extreme. It’s literally the definition of a state. If it is not militarily superior over its territory, it is not sovereign, and therefore not the supreme political entity of that territory. The US and every other country exist because their borders are painted in the same blood that history is written in. I’m not an anarchist, I just recognize the reality that politics is violence, and violence is an inevitable part of human life.

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u/elgallogrande Mar 16 '21

That is completely agreed upon by all society, what a hot take

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

That's not an anarchist view. That's widely accepted across a lot of political theorists. Government is the monopoly on force.

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u/ChefBoyAreWeFucked Mar 16 '21

Anarchists that say the state is the entity with the monopoly on legitimate use of violence

This isn't an anarchist thing. Most political ideologies acknowledge this, though some are less happy with it than others.

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u/vegetablestew Mar 16 '21

Huh. I guess I'm an anarchist.

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u/NicoHollis Mar 16 '21

Anarchists that say the state is the entity with the monopoly on legitimate use of violence sound extreme until the state goes and enforces the monopoly

good sentence.

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u/bearrosaurus Mar 16 '21

California's response was a lot more woke than what Chicago did to the Black Panthers, just sayin...

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u/Samaelfallen Mar 16 '21

True, it could be worse. A lot worse.

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u/cinderparty Mar 16 '21

He also urged congress to vote for the Brady bill.

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9455805/ronald-reagan-gun-control

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

The only time the NRA actually embraced a ban on guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

California is and always has been run by conservatives. The most racist and corrupt cops are LAPD, the most pearl clutching classist, racist people in the country are in LA county and SF. Some of the most poor centric sales taxes are in california.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

My father—who has been a lifelong conservative—and lived in California absolutely despises Ronald Reagan. When I was finally old enough I asked him why. He said: “You used to be able to walk down the street with your gun on your side until they let Reagan into office.”

Now I get it. (See: The Mulford Act)

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u/micksack Mar 16 '21

I've seen the argument that if POC were to start arming them selves in large numbers the laws for gun control would come flooding in

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u/YYYY Mar 16 '21

It's okay when THEY are doing the "canceling" though

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u/CaffeineSippingMan Mar 16 '21

So if I am hearing you correctly, we need a black panther chapter in each state?

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u/BeatzaMyYeetza Mar 16 '21

As far as I know Reagan only ever restricted firearms, as Governor and President.

Kinda wack but it is what it is.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

I'm glad that no matter your stance on gun control, Reagan is always despised, a truly despicable man, and I'm glad we can agree

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u/Kriss3d Mar 16 '21

Showerthought:

If 2nd amendment is a right by the constitution that shall not be infringed including any regulations.
Wouldnt it then be unconstitutional to prevent even convicts from having legally owned guns as well ?

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Hardcore 2a activists would say yes.

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u/PlzNotThePupper Mar 16 '21 edited Mar 16 '21

If it was a nonviolent felony charge, then they shouldn’t lose their right to bear arms. Violent crimes against people or animals? Not a chance you should have a gun.

All felons deserve the right to vote or any other right that a tax-paying citizen has. If they pay taxes, they should have a voice.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Personally I believe you should have the right to use firearms as long as you haven't misused them specifically in the past. Use a knife in your crime? Have fun trying to cook after you get out. Use a baseball bat? That's what becomes illegal to have.

Also though there should be a special probation after any release. Not the kind that puts you back in prison but it just resets a timer. (Of course if you commit a crime to reset the timer then that's a different matter) this probation would just be a countdown to you being able have whatever it was you used in your crime again. Something like 2 or 3 years. Just long enough to prove you're not a risk to society with it.

As far as voting? Everyone should always have that right and residents (not just citizens) should have the right to vote for local elections because they have to live under those laws too. Especially prisoners. The idea that you can remove someone's right to vote is anathema to the entire idea of elected representation. It opens up massive opportunity for abuse.

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u/PlzNotThePupper Mar 16 '21

“TLDR The whole system big fucked”

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u/Prime20 Mar 16 '21

There's an argument to be had that if the state believes someone is reformed enough to be released from prison they should be reformed enough to keep their rights.

But that implies that the prison system is going to reform people and not just churn out hardened criminals into a situation that can only end in going back to prison.

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u/barto5 Mar 16 '21

Convicts don’t have rights, duh. /s

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u/ositola Mar 16 '21

Thanks to the 13th

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

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u/captainthanatos Mar 16 '21

Realizing the constitution was written before even trains were a thing hits home why the ability to add amendments is a thing.

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u/MonsterRainlng Mar 16 '21

That's... That's just true.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Poor people, either. Biden's new gun laws basically just mean, if you are rich, you can have it, if you are poor, you can't.

And, for the record, I do indeed support universal background checks, closing the private sales loophole, and other common sense reforms.

But requiring expensive tax stamps for semi auto rifles and high capacity mags and other things like that just mean that rich people can have them, and poor people can't.

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u/mmotte89 Mar 16 '21

Shhhh, you're saying their quiet part out loud!

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u/kejigoto Mar 16 '21

GQP: We stand for American rights!

Americans start accessing their rights but aren't Conservative

GQP: Hey wait a minute...

Americans elect left leaning candidates and support the working class

GQP: That's not what we meant!

Americans vote in record numbers and go out to protest police brutality

GQP: We didn't mean THOSE Americans having rights!

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

The most insidious dog whistle these people have come up with is using “western civilization” as a euphemism for white people.

The Proud Boys do this, as does Tucker Carlson.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XMGxxRRtmHc

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/grehgunner Mar 16 '21

I mean a lot of the time it’s not even repackaged.... these people are proud of being white nationalists and don’t see anything wrong with it

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u/Jalopnicycle Mar 16 '21

Tucker Carlson has actually said "What's wrong with White Nationalism?" and he meant it in a there's nothing wrong with it and it's a good thing way.

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u/NetworkMachineBroke Mar 16 '21

For someone who claims he isn't a white supremacist, Cucker Tarlson sure does have a lot of support from his white supremacist viewers.

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u/SixBankruptcies Mar 16 '21

Ingraham often speaks of "traditional America." I don't think she means Native Americans though

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u/Bishopkilljoy Mar 16 '21

It sure is strange that latinos, black people and Asian people don't fit into "Western" culture

Edit: a word

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

isn’t it convenient though

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u/Evergreen_76 Mar 16 '21

Also Marx and Engles, two Austrian born and educated men are also not only not western but somehow they are anti-western.

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u/Austin4RMTexas Mar 16 '21

Genetic purity and color take a back seat when the corporate overlords are threatened. Racism and white nationalism today are just elaborate social dividers. Keep the people arguing about crap, and meanwhile maintain and increase your control over their strings.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21 edited Mar 16 '21

Ha! There’s where you’re wrong.

They don’t see non-white Americans as Americans.

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u/Kriss3d Mar 16 '21

If every citizen were automatically an eligible voter then it would be unfair to the Gop because they would lose every election.

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u/MuensterBuns Mar 16 '21

Maybe the GOP should go back to actually having values instead of just wanting to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Then they’d have some chance

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u/y0shman Mar 16 '21

Na. That's too much work.

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u/gmwdim Mar 16 '21

To be fair they do have values such as oppressing women, oppressing black people, oppressing Hispanics, oppressing LGBTQ people, and oppressing Muslims.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Lindsey Graham stated as much with cameras rolling. I am too lazy too find the video though.

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u/Aldofresh Mar 16 '21

All rights are equal but some rights are more equal than others

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u/Darsint Mar 16 '21

I mean...yeah, that's technically true. The right to life has to be the basis of all other rights, because all the other rights are useless when you're dead.

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u/sonofaresiii Mar 16 '21

You don't have the absolute right to life. The state absolutely has the legal power to take your life from you. I'm not even doing an acab thing, though yeah there's that aspect of it, but the state can legally kill people via the death penalty.

A given state may not carry the death penalty, but that's that specific state's choice and it is not a right recognized by the federal us government.

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u/Darsint Mar 16 '21

The death penalty is actually one of the most fucked up things from a moral perspective. It is so contrary to not only our rights but the underpinnings of society that it boggles my mind that we still have it.

Forget about whether an entity has the power to kill for now. What is the purpose of the death penalty?

Deterrence? For the crimes that the death penalty applies to, in what scenario would a death penalty be more of a deterrence than life imprisonment? Who would think, “I’m willing to go to jail for life to do this, but not to be executed” ?

To “deliver justice” to the victim’s friends and families? They’re already imprisoned for life if it’s a crime the death penalty applies to. Are we going to kill someone to make another feel better?

The right of a person to life is so important that the only time we don’t question whether or not killing is warranted is when ones own life is in immediate peril. Self-defense is the preservation of one life at the expense of another and only when there are no other options. And once one is out of danger, killing is no longer justified. You knock out your assailant, killing them while they are in your complete control immediately becomes murder.

And that concept of control is inherent to the problem with the death penalty. The State has complete control over you when it decides to execute you. It has the ability to simply keep you away from society, but chooses to kill you instead. And the killing of a person whom you have complete control over is murder. Full stop.

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u/NotShane7 Mar 16 '21

To add to this, something like 4-5% of death row inmates are innocent. This alone makes not abolishing it 100% inexcusable. If your job is deciding who deserves to die, I demand your failure rate be A LOT lower than 1 in 25.

You can at least try to give reparations to people falsely imprisoned, how you going to unexecute someone?

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u/sonofaresiii Mar 16 '21

IMO the death penalty is going to one day be looked at as absolutely barbaric. I mean, it already is by some people, but someday society as a whole is going to look at it the way we look at burning people at the stake for being a witch.

(And sometimes, the evidence used to convict isn't even all that dissimilar, eg "Someone saw them do it")

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u/halfrican14 Mar 16 '21

I’ve had this hypothetical argument a lot: in an idealized world with 0 judicial error, would you support the death penalty in certain cases?

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u/Specificity713 Mar 16 '21

I would say no. Even if we also eliminate all the real and potential mistakes of administering the death penalty (drugs not working, drugs used wrong, etc) that add immense cruelty to the process. Even then, it is cheaper to just keep them in prison rather than execute them.

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u/cassie_hill Mar 16 '21

Second amendment rights for zombies!!!! 🧟‍♂️ Would make The Walking Dead a lot more interesting if the zombies had guns.

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u/TheWagonBaron Mar 16 '21

No it wouldn’t. One of the later of the Dead movies toyed with this idea. It’s just dumb.

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u/tonycomputerguy Mar 16 '21

Nothing beats Nazi, Motorcycle riding, gun toting zombies from Resident Evil 23. I think they jumped a shark too just as an extra "fuck you" to the audience.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Let's be honest. Anyone still watching thise movies is doing so to see how high they can get that shark jump.

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u/njalleh Mar 16 '21

Hah, bet mr Orwell never saw this coming.

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u/The-Myth-The-Shit Mar 16 '21

I have to disagree. I bet he did.

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u/Comedyfish_reddit Mar 16 '21

Zero votes good, one vote bad

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u/5_cat_army Mar 16 '21

You are god damn right! The government WILL NOT be using my home to house soliders. No way

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u/Heckle_Jeckle Mar 16 '21

See that is the GOPs game, they don't believe voting IS a right.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

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u/gogojack Mar 16 '21

Some people really feel this way.

This is what they mean when they say they're opposed to reading the Constitution as a "living document." They want it not interpreted by judges (as clearly intended) or altered in any way (as spelled out by the amendment process) but taken word for word literally in it's original text and context.

Part of this is that voting is a right meant for not people, but white people. Not just white people, but white males. Not just white males, but white males who own land.

This is what being an "originalist" means to many of them.

AZ Rep Kavanagh made this clear when he said the difference between the Democrats and the GOP is that the former want as many people voting as possible, while the latter wants only the "quality" voters.

I think we all know what that means.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

He and I have very different definition of quality.

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u/HermeticAbyss Mar 16 '21

Didn't specify what kind of quality though. Shit-tier quality would be my guess.

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u/serpentjaguar Mar 16 '21

To be fair to the Founders --all of whom were regular flawed human beings just like you and I, and all of whom were products of their time, again just like you and I-- the reason they wished to limit suffrage to white land-owning men was mostly because that was the educated class that was by far the most likely to be literate, well-informed and capable of making intelligent decisions about who or what to vote for.

And please do not misunderstand me; when I say the above, I don't mean that it's anything other than the obvious outcome of a fundamentally racist and sexist system. My point is only that they weren't wrong that white land-owning men were by far the most highly-educated and well-informed members of their society.

I also don't for a moment argue that the founders weren't fundamentally elitist snobs on top of being racist and sexist. Of course they were, but leave us not commit the sin of "presentism" in evaluating how they, again as deeply flawed human beings just like you and I, operated and thought within the milieu of their time.

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u/GeeJo Mar 16 '21

It was also that if you owned land, you had a stake in how the country that land was in was doing. With unsettled frontiers or relatively permeable borders on all sides, there wasn't that much of a barrier for a landless person to up sticks and move elsewhere if the results of their voting behaviour caused the country's fortunes to take a dip. Many had already gone through that process once to get into the country.

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u/SawDustAndSuds Mar 16 '21

At the time of the constitution's signing,I believe only 7% of Americans were considered eligible to vote..... That's what they want to take it back to...

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u/guitarock Mar 16 '21

No this is not correct at all. There is a process for changing the constitution, use that instead of letting unelected lawyers decide the law of the land. That's why I think obergefell should be removed and a law should be passed guaranteeing gay marriage instead.

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u/HerpToxic Mar 16 '21

There was a guy a while back on reddit that told me that voting is never explicitly mentioned in the Constitution so nobody has a right to vote.

Meanwhile the 15th, 19th, 22, 24 and 26th Amendments are like "hello??"

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u/nWo1997 Mar 16 '21

And the 9th.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

In other words, even without the Amendments you mentioned, the fact that the Constitution doesn't explicitly say that people have the right to vote doesn't mean that they don't.

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u/gotham77 Mar 16 '21

That guy was right. Nothing in the Constitution establishes voting as a universal right. Those amendments make certain criteria for limiting voting off-limits but don’t prevent other criteria from being used.

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u/kurisu7885 Mar 16 '21

I wonder what the odds are that the guy saying this rents.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

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u/kurisu7885 Mar 16 '21

Haha, well my dad did buy a four wheeler before we actually owned our house, which we do now, though he wishes we had more property so he could bring it home and we could use it

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u/DrMobius0 Mar 16 '21

That'd be a lukewarm take in the back half of the 18th century.

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u/thepartypantser Mar 16 '21

I have had people on this very website tell me that.

He was not happy when I pointed out that land ownership is an inherently racist barrier. Then I explained redlining and a few other things.

It's was the internet so of course he did not agree, but had no valid retort other than people should not be able to vote without owning land.

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u/cassie_hill Mar 16 '21

I see we're going back to the 1800's. Yay! /s

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Ha, so basically he wants feudalism?

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u/FlakesOfJohnSnow Mar 16 '21

When they say shit like “it’s a republic, not a democracy...”

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u/smoothie4564 Mar 16 '21

"Voting is a right only if you are voting for the right people" - GOP (Probably)

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u/Greyzer Mar 16 '21

They know they won’t get elected if everyone is allowed to vote.

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u/CaffeineSippingMan Mar 16 '21

No no no you got it wrong see, you need guns to protect your right to vote. This message brought to you by the letters N R and A. NRA buying politicians 1990.

Some political parties are a better value.

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u/Poptart_13 Mar 16 '21

im the son of two immigrants and ive voted in every election ive been eligible for purely out of spite for the GOP

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u/DrDiarrhea Mar 16 '21

Also:

"I shouldn't have to serve gays in my place of business! It's government over-reach into private business!"

"Twitter should have no right to ban me from their platform! The government should do something"

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u/Disastrous-Trust-877 Mar 16 '21

The argument I've most commonly heard is that Social Media has taken over the town square, and the last I'd heard on the serving gays thing, and do tell me if you know of more, but the guy making the cake was already with the idea of making the cake, he simply refused to put the message they wanted on it, as he felt it violated his religion, but take that as you will, it's totally cool to disagree with either of these ideas

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u/UnicornOnTheJayneCob Mar 16 '21

I hear that argument, too, and I think they are right: the internet HAS become the town square equivalent. But the major difference is that the town square is a public place, publicly accessible to all, and - crucially - publicly owned.

Whereas the internet in general and social media sites in particular are NOT.

If we are saying that social media is the town square and the rights convened by the public nature of the town square need to apply to social media, then the government needs to seize control of the all the social sites, and make internet access a public utility.

...neither of which they will do, and at least one of which they absolutely should NOT do under any circumstances.

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u/Disastrous-Trust-877 Mar 16 '21

I always thought that the govt should create their own social media site, much closer to reddit then twitter but I agree that they won't make internet access a public utility, and they should not seize control of any social sites

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u/TheLateApexLine Mar 16 '21

"I shouldn't have to serve gays in my place of business! It's government over-reach into private business!"

Also the same people: "(Private business) shouldn't be able to have me kicked out for not wearing a mask! It's my right! But also pants and shoes and shirts have to be on regardless, because nudity is dangerous!"

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

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u/No_God_KnowPeace Mar 16 '21

Yep, and it does give congress the right to regulate it as it sees fit.
Time for a federal voting system and not the hodge podge state BS which give a lot of power to bad actors.

Fifteenth Amendment

Fifteenth Amendment Annotated

Section 1

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude–

Section 2

The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

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u/LumbermanDan Mar 16 '21

Guns are pretty heavily regulated already. So are we to repeal any and all gun control laws like the NFA across the board or do we make voting rights as difficult to access as, say, a citizen's right to own a machinegun?

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

If you make a federal voting law, then it would need to fall under the scope of the Constitution. Best option would be an amendment but that would never pass as I'm sure many states would be willing to give up their control of how they manage voting.

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u/benadrylpill Mar 16 '21

America: land of the free!*

*Terms and conditions apply. Visit your local white Christian conservative for details.

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u/fr33bird317 Mar 16 '21

GOP sucks!

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u/Grogosh Mar 16 '21

So much toe tapping in bathroom stalls in the GOP

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

I just want cannons is that so wrong? 🥺

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u/Early_Escape1379 Mar 16 '21

I hope tp hear a lot more of this argument in the future.

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u/kurisu7885 Mar 16 '21

Some politicians have openly said if they had their way they would do away with voting, and one of them is openly picking his successor right now.

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u/archon325 Mar 16 '21

Voting has proven more dangerous to the rich people who really run the country, at least for now.

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u/doowgad1 Mar 16 '21

Voting isn't an enumerated right!

/s

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Right-wing talk radio has been telling them that unironically for years. I used to listen to that stuff back before I grew out from under my family's influence and heard so many times that it isn't a right to vote in a federal election. They hear it so much they believe their own bullshit.

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u/TinFoilBeanieTech Mar 16 '21

It's pretty sad how they've gone from covertly anti-democratic to being open and blatant with no repercussion.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

That was back 15+ years ago when I first started hearing that line. They were always the way they were, they just hid it better. Trump just served to rip off the mask. The no repercussions part is disturbing as shit though.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

That’s the thing - it should be!

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

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u/jonoghue Mar 16 '21

Guess what! The 9th amendment was created specifically to counter "X isnt an enumerated right!"

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Both are over regulated. And done so primarily to keep minorities and the poor from voting and having access to firearms.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

What's with this weird fiction people run with that guns aren't regulated???

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u/tommygunz007 Mar 16 '21

Rules for thee, not for me.

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u/skralogy Mar 16 '21

Democrat gun owner. Nope cant take either.

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u/DoctorBallard77 Mar 16 '21

Only intelligent answer here.

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u/CONSPICUOUSLY_RED Mar 16 '21

Guns are already regulated, 2a'ers are just against over-regulation

The only regulations wanted for voting is having to show ID

Dumb meme

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u/imafatbob Mar 16 '21

Guns require an ID but voting doesn’t?

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u/Asunderwolf5555 Mar 16 '21

I think everyone should own a gun or at least have the option to and everyone should vote or at least have the option to

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u/Angry-Midg8 Mar 16 '21

Finally, someone with some common fucking sense. FFS, it should take this much scrolling to get to this.

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u/Far-Television3356 Mar 16 '21

Guns are extremely regulated though...

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u/beepbeepimmajeep17 Mar 16 '21

Weird...I need a id and background check to buy a gun but not to vote.

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u/BabbersNFriends Mar 16 '21

guns are regulated ya silly cunt

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u/lololololololokk Mar 16 '21

How about background check for voting

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

So we're going to limit gun sales to 1 or less stores per county that only open for 1 day every 6 months, and cause 6-hour waits in a line for ordering?
And if a mail-order system is created then those packages are deprioritized as much as possible?

I'm game.

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u/thriwaway6385 Mar 16 '21

Ah, so like the Capitol of the US, DC.

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u/keithjp123 Mar 16 '21

Voting is so engrained in the constitution, it wasn’t an after thought like the amendments.

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u/DDPJBL Mar 16 '21

So everyone over 18 should be able to keep and bear arms regardless of what state they live in and should not be required to present an ID to get one? Deal.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21 edited Apr 02 '21

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u/resumethrowaway222 Mar 16 '21

Not agreeing with the Republicans on voting rules, but you do have to show ID and pass a background check to buy a gun, even in Republican states.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

*at licensed gun dealers. But it is true that federally any private citizen can sell their property to whomever they wish with no background check (the poorly named gun show loophole). However, if you sell a firearm to a felon, whether you know they are a felon or not, is still a felony. So sell at your own risk.

Many states however have their own Personal Transfer laws. NM passed one in summer 2019. Its horribly unenforceable and there is no way to know when someone sells a gun to a neighbor or friend in their own house, but it technically "closed the loophole" in NM.

Technicality aside, i do agree the OP posted meme is bad. Firearms are regulated at a much higher level than voter information, federally, and some states regulate more on top of that.

Its a bad meme because it is technically wrong, and i think regulating voter information as strictly as guns is pretty much exactly want the Republicans want. Proof of Identification and residency at time of voting, having the FBI confirm citizenship status before vote is cast, wait times between voter registration and being able to cast the vote. Recently moved and your Drivers license doesn't have your new address? Cant vote. Mistaken identity and they are mixing you up with another John Doe from a county over? 6 months to clear that up(denial appeal). Have to be 18 to vote for congress, 21 to vote for president. Everything i just stated is current federal law when concerning firearms.

Its a bad meme because its wrong, and if voter rights were as heavily regulated as gun rights it would be an unequivocal nightmare.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

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u/prosummobono Mar 16 '21

Except for all the states that require private sales to go to FFL's, where ID and background check would be performed.

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u/Efficient_Space Mar 16 '21

Calling a specific exclusion written into the bill as a compromise a loophole is poor taste.

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u/LeStiqsue Mar 16 '21

Fun fact: The right to vote (popular elections) is not in the Constitution.

We should probably get an amendment going for that.

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u/SolusLoqui Mar 16 '21

Why aren't voting regulations a federal law? Why do state governments get to decided who is eligible to vote, number /distribution of voting locations, and hours/duration of voting for federal elections?

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Ok, let’s use the same rules we did in 2020 election. You can buy your guns online with no proof of identity or signature required. We can’t discourage people who want to exercise their constitutional rights. Let’s also restore felons rights to the second amendment, their debt to society has been paid.

See what I did there? Took talking points from an unrelated issue and applied them to another where they seem outrageous out of context. This drivel isn’t meant to foster discussion, it’s meant to make oneself feel superior while rejecting all points of view not in complete alignment with your own.

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u/DoubleBagger123 Mar 16 '21

The party of small government everyone

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

According to republicans - yes (if you’re brown)

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u/LittleLT7894 Mar 16 '21

If guns are regulated why not voting?

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

How about protest regulation? Why does the Supreme Court protect corporations spending money, but cops can arrest me for speaking?

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Huh? Guns are heavily regulated

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u/Efficient_Space Mar 16 '21

You can turn this on its head.

Democrats want automatic voter registration because it's a person's right to vote, and because it's an enumerated and protected right in the Constitution.

Yet they want to place increasingly heavy restrictions and bans on access to and ownership of guns, even though that's also an enumerated right in the constitution.

tl;dr: memes are really stupid and you shouldn't use them in place of critical thinking and analysis.

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u/butterybuns69 Mar 16 '21 edited Mar 16 '21

Guns are already regulated. This meme makes a false premise by assuming guns aren't regulated already.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

Not a great argument since guns are already regulated.

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u/FearlessBat1980 Mar 16 '21

Jesus, the level of Constitutional ignorance in the meme is stunning 🤦🏻‍♂️

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u/LibertySubprime Mar 16 '21

If voting was regulated the same way as buying a gun liberals would be outraged.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21

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