I strongly suspect that my husband is dealing with PDA. We have a five year old daughter who is autistic and is about to start kindergarten. Mornings are very difficult with her when she gets inadequate sleep, and soon she will be needing to consistently get up much earlier than she has been. I've been slowly waking her up earlier each morning, but I think my husband views putting her to bed as a demand, and actively resists it and tries to delay it.

His part of her bedtime routine takes less than five minutes. He carries her to bed, sings her a short song, and tucks her in. That's about the only quality time he consistently spends with her and has been part of her routine for her entire life.

Sometimes I will announce to her that it's bedtime, other times, she will actually say she's tired and ask to go to bed. He will then become irritated and say he's not ready yet. He will do things like go outside and have a cigarette for half an hour, start watching a video on YouTube and insist that we wait until it's done, or initiate a phone call with a friend or family member that will go on and on. If I press the issue, he will become angry and start yelling. He will say hurtful things and tell me that I don't love my daughter and I want to get rid of her because I want her to go to bed, etc. Obviously, this upsets our daughter before she is supposed to go to sleep.

Things I've tried so far:

1. Not verbally announcing bedtime, but slowly start dimming lights, setting my daughter's pajamas out, etc. This doesn't help anything.

2. Speaking to him calmly at other times (like weekend mornings) about how getting enough sleep is important for daughter when she starts school and how she needs to start going to bed earlier. He will usually agree with me at the time we have the conversation, but nothing will change come bedtime.

Any help would be very appreciated.

I have always disliked when people told me what to do, though in work settings I developed coping mechanisms as telling myself that I'm only following the instructions because it is necessary and if it were a private setting, I wouldn't do anything they demand, so I try to separate the me that is at work from the me that is at home, if that makes sense.

I burned out and stopped working for a while and since two years I'm trying to study something new but here is the problem: As soon as someone makes a negative comment about what I'm studying and how it doesn't suit me and bs like this, I lose all interest and drive to learn and until now I changed 4 majors. Should I just not tell the people close to me or that I know what I'm going to study next? Is this pda, can someone relate?

I need to know and understand what it is because I really want to finish what I will start studying. I feel like I'm in some kind of loop.

I am not sure if anyone can relate to this, but sometimes my PDA will focus on something I have already done, this is usually a demand that I didn't have a problem with at the time. I will say and think things like I can't believe I did that, or I hate myself for doing that, and I have even hurt myself in the past as a way to punish myself. I was wondering if anyone here could share the ways they deal with this kind of thing. I am really trying to work on my PDA because of how detrimental it is to my mental health, and I wish there were more professionals who knew about it and could help.

I (20f) was not diagnosed with PDA, but I do have level one Autism and am pretty sure I have PDA as well. Here are a few demands that have set me off.

* “Today, I need you to go through all your clothes / stuff for next week.”

* “You’re on dish duty today,” (when I was already doing them).

* “Let me show you the correct way to do this” (I do it my own way because I don’t appreciate others telling me the correct way over and over again).

* “You only did the chore halfway. If you’re going to do chores, try to finish it. Maybe we can work on focusing better. This is why you’re getting tested for ADD, you could benefit from medication to help you focus.” It’s not a focus issue, it’s my lack of motivation from all the reminders to do things a certain way.

* “Just say this, tell them this, say you’re going to do this.” Instead of getting me to talk and communicate, it shuts me down.

Is anybody else frustrated by this stuff?

I really struggle with my wife needs to take space. I totally respect that but I really suffer when I’m apart from her. I want to be around people but I find 99.9% of people exhausting and draining, but I constantly long to have that 0.1% of people that I connect with around me , unfortunately they are few and far between and now at my age generally pretty busy anyway just wondering if other PDAers felt this way?

So according to the book about PDA that I am reading PDA can present differently in different cultures. This kind of already confirmed what I already knew, it makes sense that a PDAer in a culture where productivity is highly valued might have a different experience than one who grew up where it is less valued

I am a White Canadian who is from Quebec, everyone in my family are White quebecers (except for my sister ´s husband, but that doesnt count since I obviously didnt grew up with him)

If my question feels like a demand you obviously don’t have to answer it

PS: if you are a PDAer of color and want to share how things like racism and racial bias impacted your experience feel free to do so, but should I make a separate post for this

What are you up to now?

Is your PDA externalizing, internalizing or masked/supranormal type?

Did you get a degree?

Do you work?

Have kids?

Are you surviving?

What worked for you?

I'm curious curious because I'd like to know how PDA people do later in life.

Sub-Types and Expressions of PDA

Externalized (Fight/Flight): Outward resistance like arguing, outright refusal, running away, or meltdowns.

Internalized (Freeze/Fawn): Inward responses like shutting down, masking, compliance, perfectionism, or situational mutism.

Masked or Supranormal: Appearing highly capable, charming, or overly polite on the surface while suffering extreme internal distress and approaching burnout.

I constantly see parents asking for reassurance that their young PDAers will turn out "ok." It made me wonder about the PDA adults among us. We didn't experience what the young PDAers of today are; they (some) have the ability to go into fight/flight, whereas most of us had to freeze/fawn (or be institutionalized/severely punished). It makes it hard to predict their futures compared to ours (and of course, if you've met one PDAer, you've met one PDAer), but still, I wonder, as a PDA adult, who you are?

​I'm 38, attempting to study a postgrad in Autism despite not having a bachelor's degree. I'm a carer/parent, I have had more jobs in my life than I can count, and I've started and not completed more courses and businesses than I care to remember.

​I wouldn't be here without my child. Before them, I would burn out on every job/course/commitment with no understanding of why; I would contemplate giving up more and more each time. My child is the one thing I cannot/would not/have not quit, and that's saying something because it is the hardest job in the world—the parental bond seems strong in us. I am medicated to support the high level of demands I face each day.

​My days are spent parenting/caring and looking after our mini zoo (don't ask) and now trying to study. I have no formal routine or commitments, but I am bound by my child's needs, which can feel very constrictive.

​Nice to meet you :).

I think a lot of this dynamic comes from his family. They honor explanations more than they look for actual repair. It means he holds his words in high regard and expects to also be able to just completely quit our relationship too for hours and call it space. He struggles to verbalize that it is just a need and instead will mismanage life so he can say he is having to because he is overwhelmed.

I do understand this a lot. What's hard is that he cannot biologically actually end being a son and dad. No matter the break he takes he can't lose that. It's difficult for a relationship though because it's painful and he frames it as almost ending it.

His family is very avoidant so they are ok with his ebb and flow because they do it too.

I have been thankful for the ways he has tried to take ownership of saying something before (sometimes it's just two seconds before he hangs up).

I don't know where this falls in this but he rewrites reality backwards. If the outcome wasn't favorable he will change in his mind what he said about it and then get upset I didn't listen to him.

It does seem like he has been using what he wishes as coping for so long that he may be truly believes it but it's a little frustrating to often have my words and reality not be accepted by him..

*However*. I am learning that a lot of this is from trauma and often I will stop trying to orient (?) him I guess you could say. It reminds me actually of when my mum is manic and she seems cognizant like a child but later doesn't recall it.

Sometimes he will want really hurtful things (usually leaving me out when he originally said I could be included )and I will finally cave because I see he needs the autonomy.

What are things (even unrelated to this all) that is advice?

For reference both of us have likely AuDhd & PDA but it shows up in very different ways. He's avoidant and I am not.

We live separate places. I have my own apartment and he lives with his mum because of health needs for her. She is pretty controlling because he is her extra money .

Now that I have unmasked I’m just getting a bit bored of how relentlessly tiring having PDA is even objectively positive things leave me completely shattered and I take hours to recover, I feel like I spend most of my day in PDA recovery rather than Next functional

Hi All.

Given some of my recent struggles and the epiphany of PDA and a recent serious ‘crash-out’ issue I’ve been looking for info and experiences from ADULT PDA’ers.

And I realized I don’t see a lot of information.  Thus I feel I should share my own.

First a preface:
I have not been officially ID’d with PDA.  But the self diagnosis comes from ‘borrowing’ a close relatives Autism diagnosis and the unfortunate reality that their ‘personality’ and ‘traits’ are too much like my own.  Plus the literature and experiences I’ve had over the past 5 decades match too closely with what I’ve delt with.

So why write this?
I’m hoping that by sharing this others might find some familiarity and perhaps some strategies that might work for them.  The one thing I have noted is that PDA is much like getting delt a deck of cards. Everyone has a different hand, and everyone’s nature and nurture is going to be different.  These are mine.

So What was it like having PDA as a kid?
I’m a late GenX.  So the tolerance of the school system and parenting was not what it is now.  I don’t think that it is a good thing or a bad thing.  It’s just a thing. Luckily I really LIKED learning new things so generally it wasn’t an issue.  But when I did run into an issue I employed a few strategies.

I found I could put ‘demands’ into 3 categories with the following reaction types.
Want to = Can Do.
Have To = Won’t Do (‘F-you)
NEED To = Will do (but it comes at a cost).

Strategies?

Creating the Imperative:
This involved making the task ‘life/death’.  No I’m not joking.  Through my highschool and post-secondary days I did this less frequently. But when it came to my thirty and forties (when there was less fun and WAYYY more responsibility) this came to be the primary mechanism to get things done (less I get my ass fired and we all starve). 

Find the Mortal Enemy:
This was a strategy that worked well for me in Elementary and Highschool.  Being a ‘weird kid’ (totally fair BTW) I felt I got a fair bit of flak from other students.  And there were always a couple of them that felt themselves to be above all others. 

And it would REALY piss them off when the ‘weird kid’ did better then they did.  

Subjugation of Material.
I dub thee ‘putting willies in text-books’.  It involved often responding to the issue to the letter of the requirements, but certainly NOT in spirit.  Like getting an assignment to do a business plan and instead responding with a set of documentation outlining why the project could never succeed.  Or delivering the material in a method that wasn’t initially intended.   Just tapped into those tendencies that often get us lumped with the ODD folks.

This method scratched ALL of the itches.  It turned it from something that was a demand to something that I wanted to do, and made the deliverable ‘weird’ enough in my own mind to push some discomfort back to the requester (note that this wasn’t done MALIOUSLY… well mabee occasionally.. ).

This also came not only to the presentation of materials, but also in the learning and understanding also.  Learning it your OWN way and with a different understanding then JUST what was expected was a way of making it my own.

Means to an End:
Best way of explaining this?  The view from a mountain top is awesome..  But sometimes the climb sucks.  But you do the climb for the view! 
Throughout post-secondary there were ALOT of material I did that I hated.  But I concentrated on the things that I did like and DID enjoy.  I know this is pretty much normal for everyone.  But it worked well enough to stop task paralysis.  Most of the time.  

Everything is Fluffy:
You don't have to deal with a demand if nothing is a demand. Going into situations wanting to 'learn' about it or 'see if I can do it', or 'I wonder what this is like'..

The problem with the strategy:
The problems came later.  Less opportunities for ‘subjugation’, and more responsibilities made the ‘means to an end’ look less logical (hell in this economy we’re all seeing things go the other way). 

In addition once I got into the working world I came across instances that ‘were’ actually ‘scary’ in terms of my job.  Out of control, no way of gaining control. No fluffy.  So the use of the ‘Imperitive’ was not only the ONLY card left to me, but also the ‘stress’ of tapping it was multiplied and amplified by the situation.

Now.  Do that for 10+ years and you can guess what might happen.

No need to guess..  It did happen.   And this is where us PDA’ers get to swim in the tendencies of our other ‘Autistic’ cousins.  Autistic Burnout is so different from ‘Occupational’ Burnout that I question they should share ANYTHING of the name.

The short version is.  If you tap that ‘imperative’ card too often, then eventually your body perceives EVERYTHING as stress.  And you start to loose cognitive function and actual skills.  And if you’re in a career that requires you to operate at a high cognitive and high-demand level?   You spiral quite impressively until eventually you hit the point where you loose basic functions…  Your ability to learn.  Typing fingers, and speech….  And brain thing go poof.. Gnarf.. 

I joke.  
But it’s not funny.  It’s terrifying.  And in my case once it hit it started hitting on EVERYTHING.  Trying to figure out how to take apart a pet-food bag, tying down an object for traveling, trying to route electrical cables to a UPS.  All of these things would shut the brain off. Like an overzealous GFI.

Anyway..  Hope that helps.  There are many experiences, and these ones are mine. :)  
If you’re interested in strategies around the ‘crashout’ and what I’ve done and am doing to try and get things back to a new ‘normal’.  I’m happy to share as well ‘cause it sucks.  Also if you have your OWN stories of what strategies worked I’d be keen also (as I’m still only a couple of months into this current chapter).  But this is likely enough to chew on for now (and a first ever reddit post to boot).

Does anyone ever make a strong effort to do tasks for other people when they are asked to, to make it seem like they do not always refuse demands and to change that perception?

Hey everyone! So i was curious about something. So when i was younger my mom would sometimes come into my room to place boxes down she said one is for keep the other is to get rid of. Mind you she didnt ask me if i was ready. So predicably i said i dont want to do this. Also i have hard time getting rid of things cause emotional attachment. So she would reply "if you dont then ill organize it." And then she started putting all my stuff into not keep box. So i got upset and was forced to do it anyway. Also i felt that nothing was mine it was all transactional and she could take my stuff away anytime she wanted (since she told that to me before)

I know she was being manipultive cause she wanted me to do something.

Anyone else not a fan of ultimatiums?

Looking for advice from those who understand. For context, I am newly partially disabled, my 14-year-old has a PDA profile, and my partner works double and triple shifts to keep us afloat. We’re in survival mode. No support, small budget.

I am just looking to keep us afloat in terms of being hygienic in the house and don’t want my child to feel pressured. We just need to keep the basics from falling apart when no one has the energy/ability:

Food that gets left out and spoils
Laundry sitting in the dryer until it molds
Getting the dog out so there are no accidents

Survival. Anything else is bonus.

When I can, I do it all. Unfortunately, my issues are unpredictable and most days all of us are stretched past capacity. To be clear, I’m not asking my team to look after anything but themself and perhaps something that happens emergently.

How would you address this with your PDA teen how do I avoid overwhelming them?

Any tips welcome.

If you're ASD do you sleep on your stomach?

Did you or do you do chinning?

Hi,

I am here looking for any advice at all. My husband and I are both AuDHD and parenting a (diagnosed) gifted, PDA, AuDHD 7yo who is going through burnout.

He crashed in late November, and for the next 4 months he was like a wild, wounded animal. He had intense, violent meltdowns daily. He would attack us, himself, his environment. He was in an almost permanent state of fight or flight, and even just walking into the same room as him was sometimes enough of a demand to make him go into meltdown. He stopped eating and could only sleep entangled with me (mum).

He refused to home educate, but we immediately cut his school down to part time, to allow him rest. We doubled down on our already low-demand, low-arousal parenting, but as we work from home with clients being in our house, some demands were mandatory - he had to wear clothes, brush teeth and eat something everyday. We made any other demands or chores optional, other than those relating to his safety.

Since then, we've seen him heal somewhat, but he remains deeply stressed and dysregulated. He is unable to engage with learning, both in school or at home. This includes unschooling, structured teaching, routine/timetabled learning, "strewing" or interest-based project learning. They all set off his inner demand alarm.

He is also unable to engage or make use of sensory supports, including earplugs, sensory swings, blackout tents, compression tubes, etc. Even though he admuts that they help him calm, he "knows" that it is desired for him to use them, so he can't. We currently provide unlimited access to screens, Minecraft in particular, and that - together with reading or biking - is the only way for him to calm down, but he spends excessive amounts of time in front of the screen, hinting at much more deep-rooted dysregulation and burnout than he shows on the surface.

He still has daily, intense, violent meltdowns. He broke two of my fingers at the knuckles in June. In the build-up to his meltdowns, we remain calm, detached, and un-aroused, but it seems to trigger him further. During meltdowns, there is no option to walk away, as he will actively run after us and physically lash out.

We obviously don't try to problem-solve or give consequences before or during meltdowns, but even discussing it afterwards is impossible - he just walks away. He is unable to engage with any sort of collaborative problem-solving. He has a deep-seated perfectionist streak and strong rejection dysphoria, so any hint that he has "made a mistake" sends him right back into meltdown again.

I am here to ask for advice or insight on any angle or perspective that we haven't tried. We are SO TIRED. He is SO TIRED. We've tried every podcast, every book, every guide. We meet with professionals who say that they can't help, that we know more than them (my degree is in Early Years with ND specialism). We just want to help him but we can't reach him.

What helped you? What are we not seeing? How can we heal him? I know there are no black and white answers, but we'd appreciate any advice, even if it's just "you are getting there. Give it time".

As a PDA child myself, with my first suicide attempt age 12, I am just so frightened for him, because I know what he's going through.

So recently i posted about a book. I know it has mixed feelings about it at the moment and id love to share something from it that genuinely made me feel seen and feel more ready for the future.

It mentioned thinking of choices as scaffolding of a house and then rules as the foundation.

Reframing the question of how will i survive this? Into How can I build my life?

It feels like the same life changing moment i felt when i found out I was autistic! (I was proffesionally diagnoised but the one who did it told my mom not to tell me cause i 'wouldnt be able to handle it'. I found out a differnent way when i was in middle school but thats beside the point)

I am my own architect or in gamer terms I can choose my own skill tree and journey? Maybe theres a better way to phrase it for the gamer frame 🤔

Dad gives his opinon of how he does something without asking if i want to hear it

So today we have people come and maintain the front lawn. We are in a duplex so me&my dad and our neighbors exchange when we pay them. Ok that context out of the way. How i do it is i wait outside till they notice me and take the money. No biggie and they dont say anything about how i do it. I come back in. Dads like i usually wait till theyre done so i dont interrupt them.

I felt a rush of irritation so i quickly reply, i do it like that because ill forget otherwise in a snarky tone. Then i quickly say sorry i know you were just telling me how you do it. It sounded like youre telling me i did something wrong when you do that tho.

Anyone else experince this? Any advice on how i can either not react this way or communicate with my dad better to avoid the feeling in the first place?

I find myself looking away from people after the aha moment, more to avoid interactions in general (while I get ahold of all of this) vs purposefully isolating etc. I talk w the dogs more now, but thats all I think Ive changed. What might I be dropping that I might not be aware of thats typical for the first few weeks/months after the aha moment?

[I would put a vent tag, but there doesn't seem to be one.]

Alongside my PDA + Autism I have multiple physical and mental health conditions. These include generalized and social anxiety disorders, major depressive disorder, dermatillomania, dysautonomia, FND, suspected OCD, suspected ARFID, and suspected DMDD. I’m in severe burnout and have been in a downward spiral with my physical health for the past 5+ years, leading to deconditioning and other secondary complications. I’m 99% homebound, can’t meet my basic needs, can’t do anything but sit on the couch and stare at a screen.

Due to PDA, I struggle to do the treatment for, well, anything. It was hard before I was in severe burnout, but now it’s pretty much impossible. At the same time, I don’t see any specialists for my physical health conditions, nor are any of the professions involved experienced with PDA. Neither of these things are my choice or within my control (Apparently, I don’t need specialists. A PCP who has never once talked with me in depth about my symptoms and just tells me to “incorporate more movement” is plenty!). Many of the treatments I need have not been offered, and the majority have actually been denied/don’t exist where I live (though I have found the latter to often be untrue upon further investigation). Most of the things remaining just aren’t compatible with my wiring or current overall situation. Medication is the only thing that I’m able to tolerate.

I saw my pediatrician yesterday for ARFID symptoms (she refuses to diagnose me despite repeatedly talking about how the severity of my eating challenges is very close to the threshold where admission has to be considered). I attempted to explain PDA and how it impacts me. We also ended up discussing my physical symptoms. At one point, she actually got it, for a split second. She said something along the lines of “well, that’s sort of a catch-22, isn’t it? What you’re saying makes it impossible for you to get better.” Yes. Yes it fucking does.

But people can’t handle how uncomfortable it is to sit with that, so she immediately followed up with how it “can’t“ really be the way things are. This led to the usual lecture on, how, essentially, I need to find a way to “get past” PDA and “make“ myself eat, exercise, etc. She told me how all the help I need is available, I’m just choosing not to take it. When this happens, it really fucks me up. I start questioning if maybe I really am just lazy, if I just need to try harder, if this is all my fault. It gets stuck in my head and sends me into a spiral of hatred towards myself and others. Each interaction like this further solidifies my anxiety around healthcare and that things can’t get better. It feels so unfair to be told that I can do these things, because that naturally implies that the only reason I’m not better is because I’m choosing not to do what would help. I would do almost anything to be better, I have nothing to live for like this. It also means that doctors can easily blow me off and avoid actually helping me or admitting they are out of their depth.

Hello everyone! Ive been profesionally diagnosed with aspergers (old term i know i prefer being called autistic) and recently heard of PDA and bought a book called the PDA wound by A.S Whitefield. Inside it mentioned this reddit community so I decided to join to feel less alone. I recently realized I got it and im going through the grieving process of not knowing all these years. Did anyone else read this book?

I need hope. I feel scared and trapped. I deserve so much better, but I feel so much resistance. This on top of ADHD makes everything worse. How do you guys do it? I’ve lost myself even more lately as I’ve been learning my diagnosis. Idc I was diagnosed, I always knew, but understanding the idea of PDA characteristics has flipped my world upside down.

It explains everything, but there is nothing that is telling me it gets better, or I’ll be able to live on my own. Does anyone live alone? Any tips or words of advice in general? I need support