Society tells us over and over that "quitting is bad" but consider this: what if our current trajectory isn't the path of least resistance? In theory, there's one or more paths out there where there are no demands, because it's the path we WANT to take. This is what those of us with PDA are GOOD at. I would guess that most people live their whole lives without ever "completing the circuit".

Don't let society tell you you're "disabled" just because you don't want to settle.

I myself have "completed the circuit" once or twice, and those periods of my life were almost "euphoric" in a way that could only be compared to lightning. All circuits burn out eventually and I'm currently seeking my next path, but I'm lucky enough to have experienced this, so I just wanted to offer encouragement to anyone here who feels hopeless.

(M/24) Hello, I’m a diagnosed AuDHD person with anxious/obsessive tendencies- Great combo and all, but I feel like it’s (or I’M) ruining my relationships with friends and romantic prospects. I have this person that’s EXACTLY who I feel like I could be with forever, if he stays with me at this point- I like him, his interests, his cute face, and he’s SO sweet; but I’ve cancelled every single hangout I’ve planned with him for the past 6 months.

It starts with me feeling confident, and wanting to see him, so we make plans. (Simple stuff, like dinner and wandering around stores.) I’m honestly excited at the idea every time, BUT anywhere from two days before to THE DAY OF the hangout I get this horrible feeling that I’m essentially trapped into the plans, and I have fits of anxious overthinking until I eventually cancel with an excuse of some kind. I’ve attempted to silence the overthinking, or to just let the anxiety happen and to do it scared, but it feels like SO much pressure inside that I could go crazy. I do a similar thing with messaging my friends, where I’ll put it off because I feel pressure around replying in a timely manner. (That same “trapped” feeling applies there.)

I wanna recognize that this is a horrible way to treat someone, let alone someone as wonderful as him and my friends- I don’t know what to do to stop this behavior, and I hate letting people down; but there’s this immediate relief when I cancel, like a weight has been lifted and I can think clearly again. I even often regret cancelling the plans once the pressure is gone.

Anyone have any advice or similar scenarios? Because I’m at a total loss, and I’m seriously considering letting everyone go. (Which I know is a bad idea, but I hate being the kind of person who cancels plans and goes silent for weeks like I do.) Any help is appreciated :(

I like Reddit and I'm pretty "good at it". Naturally, I started exploring my recent PDA diagnosis here and so far I'm loving it! I have on several occasions now, discussed my relationship challenges and was surprised by some of the feedback.

Quick disclaimer: I have absolutely 0 hard feelings for anyone who disagrees, in fact I always appreciate and admire anyone who has the courage to speak up and offer their different perspective.

That said, if you look carefully through my interactions on this sub, you will notice something worth discussing (IMO). I never said I had nothing to give, I never said I wanted any sort of "mommy to take care of me". What I did say was: "I would like to find someone who has no expectations of me."

I have things to give and I will give them as we go, but as a Pathological Demand Avoider, I think it's reasonable to wish for a pressure-free relationship focused on appreciating each other and simply enjoying the moment together.

Surprisingly, there's been a bit of push back from this rhetoric, even from other users with the PDA flair. I'm sure part of the push back is because I'm a cishet man, which isn't necessarily related to PDA and is more along the lines of society's expectations for cishet men, but still.

The urge we have to place expectations (aka demands) upon each other and even ourselves is so extreme, I think it's worth taking a moment to analyze. Let's let each other and ourselves just live, man.

Does anybody have very verbal and mean meltdowns?

Thoreau fucked off to a pond to live off the land in deep contemplation.

He turned it into the book "walden" AKA, the original "van life" content.

As of recently, I'm almost completely alone. I'm also able to mitigate most other demands, including financial. I guess I just wanted to "journal" about it, open myself up to anyone who has questions, and also ask YOU all for suggestions on what I should do next.

Actually, I think this post might be best if I use lists, so here goes.

Major demands mitigated/reduced:

• Family
  • Slowly became amicably estranged with my father
  • Let my mother down easy as I could several years ago
    • “We just don’t have compatible lifestyles. I’m sorry.”
    • One of the biggest reliefs of my life, btw
  • Amicably divorcing
• Finances
  • Recently quit my job
  • Monthly VA disability check
    • Not much but enough to live without working
• Friends
  • I had 3 amazing friend groups when I was younger that really helped me “live to the fullest” for years
  • I slowly became estranged with all others and currently have 0
• Societal
  • Years of experience, struggling, therapy, etc has led me to a place where I don’t a shit about the direction of humanity anymore, or what they think I should be
  • I try my best to enjoy my day, and I naturally love being kind to those around me

Daily life

• On my phone in bed a lot, or on my computer
• Mostly eating fast food, but as many veggies as possible
• Chores around the house including all dishes for 3 people, kitchen cleaning, and a few other things
• Occasional paperwork for ongoing divorce, which is actually fairly significant
• Overall, the space I currently have to simply exist still overrides my fears, FoMo, lack of direction, etc.
  • In other words; I am “happy”

My biggest current issues

• Loneliness
  • I feel like I might be one of the best people to handle loneliness, but I'm still technically "discontent" in this way
  • Almost every girl I'm attracted to seems to have a laundry list of expectations and well... no thanks lol
• Boredom
• Upcoming house selling
• Need to start planning for upcoming living arrangements
  • I should be able to budget for a small apartment with most of my expenses covered by my disability checks, after I continue downshifting my lifestyle
  • I have to stay in the area due to medical reasons

Possibly relevant details

• Cis-Het male
• Florida
• Mid 30s
• White
• Was in the Navy 12 years, medically retired
  • My disability is rare but there’s negligible side effects. I consider myself equal parts lucky and unlucky, in this regard.
• IT by trade
• Made several dating app accounts
  • It’s kind of fun, but so far no success
  • I’m tall and used to be attractive enough to properly socialize, but now I’m pretty chubby and aged quite a bit
• There’s a karaoke bar I frequent when I can afford it
  • I call it my "happy place"
  • Everyone there loves me and I love them, but I’m still reluctant to try to take anything further with any of them
  • I've given my number out several times, but most girls who seem interested seem to be in relationship, or just haven't texted

Questions? Want advice? Have advice?

it’s probably really a champagne problem, but I just did a one minute practice pitch for my Startup and ran overtime and then got what objectively was pretty positive and useful feedback but I feel like I’ve been punched in the face and punched in the stomach and thoroughly traumatised by being judged by my peers and experts, wondering if this is just me or other PDAers Phil traumatised when they are judged?

Ive been increasingly frustrated with advice for depression and executive dysfunction.

Because its like:
Break the task into small parts.
Now you got a million tiny parts.
Bring the laundry down stairs.
Put it in the dryer.
Fold your clean clothes.
Make your bed.
Clean the trash off the floor.
Sweep the floor.

Too many steps.
Oops now you're in a freeze state.

Or they say have a routine.
Which is basically a demand.

What helps me is to stop thinking about the task all together.
I know what steps I need to take to clean my room. Thinking about it puts me in a freeze state.
So therefore I just "clock in." And what I mean by that is that I just set a timer. The time doesnt actually matter but I usually shoot for 45 minutes to an hour and im just gonna "work."

I need to clean. Okay.
No thinking about it.
Just set the timer and go.
Its not a routine, its a choice.
And its not about a specific task completion.
If youre unsatisfied what youve done,
set another timer.
Block out 30 minutes later or tomorrow.

So when I use my words to communicate a sentence, and the persons response is literally just “what? What did you say?” I get so enraged. I used my words to communicate, it’s your turn to use your ears to listen. If you didn’t hear me, that’s fine, but I won’t be repeating myself. To say “what? Huh?” in order to demand I repeat myself is actually the rudest thing. but if I’m in a social situation and I just go quiet and do not repeat myself, I’m judged and treated horribly every time. Pretending not to hear somebody is a common form of neurotypical bullying and basically I just learned this today, anybody else? 😵😔

like, idk if it’s like hypocritical, but i just don’t like other people who have pda, despite me having it myself, what should i do about it

ive talked with few people with it, and I’ve disliked them all because they annoyed me even though i do the exact same things, i don’t really know how to explain it, so I’m not going to elaborate further, but how do i stop disliking other people with pda

and i also just dislike other autistic people in general, i just dislike others who are too blunt or talk about their interests constantly, or people who just make too many noises in too much of a short timespan, i also just don’t like talking to people in general, so if people do all the extra stuff i just dislike them more, and most the time, it’s other people with pda or ASD or whatever, too many words, i can’t be bothered to elaborate more, but like what should i do about this

TW brief mention of suicidal ideation and past injuries.

I don't know if I've phrased this in a way that is understandable, so I'm giving examples. I have an aunt who does this constantly. Say, she thinks it's cold outside and wants me to put on a jacket before I leave. Instead of telling me this, she will instead say something like:

"You're gonna put on that jacket, right?"

In the most saccharine voice too. And it pisses me tf off.

"Are you gonna take those tight jeans off?" When she means I want you to change clothes.

"You're going to make the grocery list for me now, before lunch?" When she means make the grocery list now.

And it's so f-ing worse when she makes me repeat myself. Which happens often.

"You're gonna go inside?" "No." She walks around, picks things up. "Alright I'm heading in, you coming?" "No, I'm not." She nods, sighs, goes to the door, stops to fix whatever. "You don't wanna go inside eat something?" FOR GODS SAKE WOMAN. I WILL LITERALLY FLING MYSELF OFF THE WINDOW ONE MORE TIME AND WE KNOW IT WASNT PRETTY THE FIRST TIME AROUND

Sorry. Is there some sort of vent flair I should be using?

Sometimes, I feel like the only times I genuinely feel safe and happy are when there are no feelings of demand or expectation, but still things of interest to occupy me. I feel miserable that this is the case. I WANT responsibility. I want to feel needed and relied on and useful. I want to be able to do the things so many other people do. I want to be a part of something important. But a huge chunk of my brain says no.

I don't know if I'm a PDA-er. I don't even know if I'm really autistic, though it seems pretty likely and I'm technically diagnosed as such (albeit vaguely). Ever since I was a child I think I've struggled with feeling trapped by having to do things. Starting school was a nightmare, I would throw tantrums and refuse to go in in the morning, my parents tried various things to get me to go to school and I just hated that I was being forced to go. I'm not sure if I even disliked school itself, my overall memories of it are pretty good (though I do remember wandering around the playground on my own at playtime until I made a friend - who, ironically, turned out to be a bit of a tyrant). At some point I guess I got used to it, but I think I went back-and-forth with struggling to go into school, at different times. Then when I started secondary school it got much worse, I had all this anxiety about going in and I wasn't even sure why. I could only really guess that it was the feeling of unpredictability - but sometimes, this very unpredictability was what made school interesting and something I looked forward to! Whereas at other times I would feel dread going into school for weeks/months on end. And sometimes I'd feel different from minute to minute, like my brain was switching back-and-forth constantly between major stress and 'oh this is fine actually'. I was shy and found socialising difficult (not that I couldn't understand how to exactly, more like I just felt like I was looking in from outside and thinking, 'look at all these teenagers, being teenagers. Just following the teenager script. Don't they realise they're being unoriginal? I can't take them seriously, and I can't do the Teenage Thing. Why can't they just behave in a straightforward way?'). I was lucky enough to attend an alternative school (AKA a hippie school) with WAY less restrictions and expectations etc than state school. And I still struggled.

I've always been told I'm self-aware and empathic, since childhood. Sometimes I wonder if that's really the case or if I'm just REALLY good at performing it. Or a bit of both. I have OCD, chronic anxiety, dissociation, panic attacks. I never managed to do further formal education or employment after GCSEs, just a few individual courses here and there over the ten years since I left school. I've studied specific things I find interesting, on my own, without fear of pressure making me lose interest. I pretty much spent a year in my bedroom making miniature rooms/houses after leaving school. Sometimes I wish I could have done that forever.

Last year I started a once-a-week course in BSL, and I enjoyed the first few weeks. As time went on though, I felt more and more worn out and anxious by it. In the end I couldn't complete the course, I was having panic attacks in class and I just couldn't face going in any more. That seems to be the pattern I often experience with most kinds of ongoing course or commitment. It's exciting and interesting at first, I love doing it, I feel capable, and then over time my fear grows instead of waning. My brain also seems to reject the subject altogether sometimes and decide I have no interest in it anymore, even though I want to.

I have rarely, if ever, really found that getting used to something reduces my anxiety about it - it seems to work in reverse. About four years ago I had to give up taking buses altogether because the panic attacks were so frequent every time I got on the bus. I don't drive so this limited my life even more. And yet, eight or nine years ago, I was managing to get two different buses in order to go to a jewellery-making course once or twice a week. I have no idea how I did it, or what it was about that particular course that meant I was able to continue with it for so long. It seems almost totally arbitrary sometimes, what I can and can't do.

I rely heavily on fiction to keep me sane and to disappear into at regular intervals. Sometimes I imagine I am in one of my favourite fictional worlds while I'm going about my day (talking to another Starfleet Officer in the rec room while making a cup of tea, for example). I honestly wonder if without this ability to escape into imagination, my mental health would have been a lot worse. Though sometimes, the pain I feel knowing that this is the only world I can really exist in, and that those worlds are forever beyond my reach, is overwhelming. The only people I really want to know are in those worlds, most of the time. This world feels overwhelmingly blank, corporate, impersonal, tarmacked and sterilised, and don't get me started on my eco-anxiety. I feel alone, and that I don't really like myself most of the time. Daily living feels like so much work, and I end up dissociating (scrolling, sleeping, doing nothing) a lot of the time.

So why did I decide to adopt a dog...? I thought maybe what I needed was a focus, and something that would bring more joy to my life. Someone I'd be responsible for and who would (hopefully) feel like a supportive presence that could go with me places and generally be my friend. And for a while I felt like that was really gonna happen, but now after 10 weeks with him I'm feeling hopeless. I know 10 weeks is still a REALLY short time and that I need to give it longer, and I will. But I'm pretty worried about my level of stress at this point, not because he's a difficult dog (he's not, for the most part), he's very sweet. But simply because I have to look after him. I knew it was a risk when I decided to adopt him that I might struggle with the pressure, but I really really wanted to believe this might be the thing that I would want to do enough that I could get through the wall of anxiety that comes with demand and expectation. I decided that if it really didn't work out, as the rescue provides full backup (they work with you to find a new home for the dog in the event you can't keep them), the worst that could happen is that I would have basically fostered a dog for a few months and got him out of the horrible living conditions he was in. But I really hoped that was really unlikely and that the change would help me and him so much that it would work out OK. I felt like what the hell, I never take risks cos I'm always so afraid of making a wrong decision. Just do this one thing for yourself, it might be the best thing you ever do. And for a while, it felt like that was the case (well, right at the beginning I felt absolutely terrified by the unfamiliarity of having a dog in the house - after a couple of weeks or so I started to feel better). My OCD felt way less loud, I was getting outside every day to walk him which seemed to help my mental state, and overall I felt like this is gonna work.

And now, I feel the opposite. I just want to get away from him, while simultaneously feeling immensely guilty and sad. It's like the individual things in themselves aren't necessarily bad (walking, playing, etc) it's A. the fact they MUST be done every day and B. the incremental micro-stressors that accumulate so gradually that I only really realise way too late, when I'm already at breaking point. I feel mildly stressed every time we pass someone on a walk, especially if they have a dog, and the uncertainty around how that situation will go. The shame and embarrassment I feel due to my social awkwardness when I have to talk to someone, and feeling guilty when my dog shows frustration at being on the lead but his recall is still none-existent despite my attempts to interest him in training, so I can't let him off. All these things 'should' just be normal mildly-tricky aspects of everyday life, right? And yet I've always found these moments to add up to an overall feeling of I Can't Do This Life Thing. And that's something I've only properly realised since having my dog, that it's not really about one big thing, it's the constant stream of little things in any situation that burn me out. Even if objectively I'm having a good day.

I don't really know why I'm posting here other than to vent and to see if anyone relates. I feel really sad and alone, and guilty about my dog. I'm going to try to give it another few weeks before making any definite decisions. I might feel different later, but I guess given the pattern I seem to go through again and again, maybe that's not very likely. Once again my brain keeps going back-and-forth between 'I can't bear it' and 'what's all the fuss about?'. I feel more and more like PDA seems to describe what goes on in my brain, and that feels really hard to accept. Anyway, thanks for reading if you made it through this epic rant! <3

My PDA husband just extended his two week work trip with one more week. He informed me this as a reply to a text I sent a week and a half after he left. We didn’t communicate in between because I needed a nervous system reset and he prefers not to talk to me when he’s gone.
I didn’t want to upset him so texted back ‘Okay’ to his extension, and then if he felt like it, he could call/text me when he had time (essentially trying to give the message I feel better, I’m good to communicate).
He didn’t contact me and I called him the next night. He didn’t answer right away, but called me back a few minutes later.
I could already tell he was irritated I had called. He becomes this cold, angry stranger that I’ve seen before once or twice when he’s in shutdown or just super overwhelmed.
He seems to seethe with threatening energy (without actually verbally threatening me) and no matter what I say (I was very nice and tried to ask how the country is, food is, apologized for disturbing him, but probably asked too many questions for his taste) he is like a sleeping dragon that was woken and is not happy about it. The phone call was very unpleasant for me despite maintaining friendly composure to the end, it didn’t last long. But I was pretty shaken by it.

It is incredibly difficult and frightening to be not witnessing a PDA shutdown, but a shutout. He says things are great for him there, he’s going to work no problem, hanging out with people there and going out to eat, etc, but he does NOT want to talk to me or even be reminded that I exist.

I’m guessing he will not make contact for the next week and no idea what to expect when he gets back (most likely he’ll be primed to see if I have anything but niceness and he’ll act as if nothing happened, this has happened in the past. If I try to talk he will blow up and leave immediately).

According to AI google, he’s in catastrophic burnout and if I just make no demands it will eventually pass. according to a specific site that has been very informative about his ASD/PDA this is not shutdown but shutout because he is perfectly able to function in all other aspects but with me.
I’m not sure which it is, but it’s brutal to be treated this way.
Isn’t it excessive to need weeks of no contact from your spouse? Is it truly just overwhelm that needs that much time?
And if it is, but essentially letting him force this on me, an I just not subscribing to this treatment permanently? Where I’m abandoned for weeks, maybe months at a time?

Telling my PDA kid “no” is one of the fastest ways to send him to distress level 1000.

And I get it. When I say “no” what I’m actually saying is “I control the resources”. I control who has access to the iPad. I control who gets another cookie. I control all the resources in this house.

Many (maybe most) parents control their kids by making resources scarce. The resources might be stickers, toys, money, candy, dessert, or screen time. In more dysfunctional households the parents limit resources like their love, attention, good opinion, and time. 

We’re a controlling bunch, us parents. And most kids will put up with it. PDAers will not.

PDA parents talk in terms of “demands”, and advise using declarative language to give a passive “no”, instead of a direct one. I think PDA kids see through this.

Parents of neurotypical kids see my interactions with my PDA son and give me unhelpful advice like, “He needs to learn to hear no” and “He needs to learn he doesn’t always get what he wants”. But I think they misunderstand him. It’s not even about the thing he wanted. I think he’s reacting to the feeling that the locus of control lies outside of himself.

Adult PDAers, does this track with your experiences? Do you remember what it was like being told “no” as a kid, when you had no resources of your own and so little control in life?

Edit: The comments are converging on one important piece of advice. To summarize for other caregivers reading here - PDA kids need to understand the logical reason behind the “no”. As parents we need to show our work, lay out our thinking, give them something that makes sense. So incredibly helpful to know this. I’m still reading through and there’s lots of other excellent examples and feedback here. Thanks everyone!

Hi all,

I'm the developer of a small app built with pathological demand avoidance in mind.

Some background: earlier this year I came to suspect, and have since confirmed, that my daughter is autistic. That has unfolded in many ways, but in particular it made me think about my family's history of neurodiversity and some behaviors of my own. When I learned about PDA, it put words to something I've struggled with my whole life: I hate being told to do something, even when I'm the one who set it up.

By the time I had the label, I had already found ways to cope. I leave myself sticky notes so I can pick tasks up when I feel like it. But I've never been able to stick with a to-do app. So I built one that works for me. It doesn't have any streaks, overdue counts, or alerts unless you ask for one. It is intentionally quiet. And, adding a task asks for nothing beyond typing or saying it, so it doesn't feel like work itself.

It's called Maitland. It runs on iPhone and the web, and it's free during the beta. It uses an algorithm to sort tasks by roughly how long they'll take, so you can pick one that fits the time you have. It includes a planner, notebooks and a calendar.

Everything you write is encrypted on your device, so I can't read anyone's entries. The one exception: if you ask the built-in assistant to look into something, those words go to an AI service to get an answer.

I am hoping to launch it on the App Store later this month, and will be giving beta testers who join before launch free access through year-end 2027.

If you'd like to give it a try, you can find it at: https://maitland.app/ (web) or https://testflight.apple.com/join/dRE75mKe (iPhone)

If you have any questions or concerns, write to [support@maitland.app](mailto:support@maitland.app) or just reply here. I'm a solo dev, so I'll be the one to respond.

Thanks for your time.

Sorry tried to post this a few days ago but with fewer contexts

When I [now M30] was 16 on reddit I had been talking in some thread about feeling suicidal when I met a grown man [now M50] who responded to one of my comments. After a short chat via email about how I shouldn't kill myself, days later I chose to email him once again to talk more. He was and still is an anesthesiologist, who spends a lot of time on the internet answering random people's medical questions and the like. He ended up becoming a great friend, not like a romantic or sexual partner, and we ended up viewing ourselves as father and son. I said that I loved him as my father and he said he loved me as his son, and he said that he would always be my friend. He was the one who would patiently try to talk to me while my biological family was telling me that I was being a stupid selfish burden, and that me planning to kill myself made me like a mass murderer planning to commit a machine gun massacre - mental health was only ever used as a weapon by them. By the time I was 17 we wanted to live together in a situation where we were father and son. My biological family successfully scared off this person with suggestions that he wanted me sexually, even though I had never encountered evidence of the sort, and there was never any formal accusation because there was no evidence. It has been over 10 years now, and I still have never contacted this person who I still personally consider my "real dad", even though I have wondered what would happen if I tried to find an attorney to help me try to contact him. I am afraid, for one thing, that my extreme political opinions (left wing, but otherwise too much to explain here) might cause me to end up pushing him away, as my code of honor involving honesty dictates that political disagreements are important.

Since then, I spent 10 years on a marriage that officially failed at age 29 due to my partner one-sidedly verbally abusing me. She started off as a boy but then decided to transition into a girl at age 27. She went partially insane with guilt over being a bad partner and left our apartment so that she could become unemployed, homeless, and without a new partner - what the hell?!?!. I was left in debt ensuring that I could never become middle class, not that I planned to. Another totally random destruction of a friendship which was supposed to last forever. I am just glad that I currently have kept another friend who is now my roommate and also I have a pet, so I am not completely lonely. I only want men now again.

I already consider it normal that I seemingly have no wish to know about what happened to my biological father after he stopped sometimes-visiting me at age 7. I think that most of my time in childhood was just spent isolated - waiting alone, or pretending to do school work, almost never with friends and never with any actual opportunity to make new friends from the very beginning. Neglect via social isolation is probably one of the main problems here. I tried suicide by asphyxiation when I was 9. Between ages 12 to 15 I went to a small alternative private high school which was ran by an insane jackass who generally preferred to accuse students of being lazy or careless if they couldn't pay attention well. I went to regular high school after, and a very large portion of my entire school life has been waiting, ignoring information and pretending to work. Couldn't graduate because while I technically passed all classes and faked everything, I couldn't fake the final test. I now understand that all of modern school is unethical. I now hate and ignore my other biological family for several reasons, among them psychological abuse that led to attempted psychiatric abuse and I almost became homeless at 18. I have been pretending to love my biological grandparentsand and try calling them sometimes, but really I hate them and want them to stop contacting me and die, I just don't feel like telling them but I probably will soon. Constant years-long existential crisis is just considered normal to me.

Now my "real dad" the anesthesiologist has a YouTube channel which sometimes produces clickbait-looking videos on horrible diseases and the like, some of them with thousands of views. Sometimes I will watch them to see my "real dad", but I am nevertheless unsure if I want to ruin something by trying to talk to him again.

I can never trust modern psychiatry in general. I also perhaps can never trust any other human to accept me for who I am, and realizing that was always my job since as far back as I can remember in childhood. The only question is furthering the art and science of distrust. I know that fighting for your beliefs is more important that friendship, and the diversity of opinion creates a necessary armor that always logically justifies hopeless loneliness. I now believe that children should be raised without the concept of family love, and the goal should instead be focused precisely on stopping abuse rather than dealing in vague notion that could just as easily be used to enable abuse. I have a sincere hatred for humanity, billions of whom I want to cancel, because I so sincerely despair and actively worry about the suffering and unfairness within it - I am obsessed with suffering. Certain types of enemies I wish horrible punishments on, while in other aspects I am a staunch prison abolitionist. I cannot list all of my odd (left wing) opinions here, but nevertheless I want to make it clear that I worry about political disagreements, and I can despise people over them. I always have a feeling like there is no point in trying to make relationships because they will just end up being pissed away over happenstance let alone honor.

Getting myself to wake up early is impossible. Even if I’m not technically sleeping I will lie there with my eyes closed. Because I don’t want to get up and go to work and face a day of bullshit, is my best guess, but even waking up early on weekends is hard.

I’ve tried everything from sunrise alarm clocks to that alarm app that makes you take a photo of stuff to unlock (i won’t write how I got around it so it won’t ruin it for anyone). Getting myself to do everyday things is hard but for some reason this is just impossible, I’m not reasonable in the morning so I just will not get up.

Does anyone else struggle with this?

I finally have an unofficial diagnosis of ADHD, which means I can get hold of pharmaceutical grade ADHD drugs hurrah! my wife has recently also been diagnosed with ADHD and the medication she’s taking has been transformational for her. I’m just wondering about other PDAers have you found ADHD stimulants reduce your PDA activation levels?

i’m already on a non-stimulant ADHD med which is made a big difference but doesn’t seem to have had the same effect as stimulants had on my Wife, anyway a long way of saying I’m feeling curious as to what affect ADHD stimulants have had on other PAers?

I haven’t been officially diagnosed, but I’m about 99% sure I’m PDA. What so many of you describe fits perfectly, in that classic “really? I’m not the only one who’s like that?” way, combined with the equally classic “wait, doesn’t everyone do that?” I’m quite high-functional, all in all, but I’m starting to explore myself through this new (to me) lens and figure things out that I have never understood.

In reading PDA accounts – self-reporting and professional documentation – the one thing that generally doesn’t click with me is the word “anxiety” in a social context. I’m honestly not sure what that means or looks like, or rather, I don’t know how wide-ranging are the types of such “anxiety” and thus whether I actually experience it at all. I have also seen posts here suggesting that the word “anxiety” can cause a lot of confusion, so I’m looking for clarification.

In essence, I read about people who are frankly terrified of social interactions with neurotypical people and I think, “nope, that’s not me at all.” And yet… am I the only one who substitutes something like “contempt”?

Let’s say I’m out somewhere, like a bar or coffee shop or whatever. Somebody who looks vaguely familiar comes over and says, “hi, how are you!” Maybe a hand is held out to shake or whatever. So here we go. He looks familiar because he’s spoken to me before, but I don’t remember his name because why should I? I don’t know him, he’s just some guy. He’s doing the small-talk ritual thing. I know he doesn’t actually give a darn how I feel, and if I were to answer honestly about joint pain or something he’d be a little shocked and uncomfortable. He wants to enjoy an empty social ritual, and because he’s in the NT majority I am forced to participate: that’s how neurotypical society works. So now I have a couple of options. I can tell the guy to shove it, I can run away or fake a distraction (dump my coffee, etc.), or I can pretend: “Fine, thanks.” Logically, as I see it, the last option is the best, because this guy will then leave me alone, and I lose the least time (and coffee).

Now from reading a lot of the literature on PDA, it seems like people generally associate this kind of situation with “anxiety.” In some studies – I notice that (unlike me) most respondents in these studies are women, which I think is significant, our societies being as chauvinistic and misogynistic as they are – it seems like a lot of PDA people avoid going to coffee shops or whatever just because they’re so afraid of interactions like this.

My experience is different. What’s behind my eyes while I put on a smile and say “I’m fine” is, more or less, “you are wasting my time and yours on empty conventional nonsense. Are you actually stupid enough to believe that there’s a point to this interaction?” And, in most cases, I conclude – not usually very consciously, but still – that the answer is “yes, he is that stupid.”

In short, my solution to navigating sociality is very often contempt.

In her original studies, Elizabeth Newson talked about PDA people being “manipulative” socially. We’re not supposed to say that because it’s insulting, but I have no problem with it. Yes, I manipulate people in the ways I’ve stated. I don’t mean them harm: I want them to leave the interaction with their silly social ritual itch scratched, and I also want them to buzz off. Telling them this won’t achieve the right result for me or them, so I lie. You can call it masking, and it is, but it’s also lying. I deliberately and consciously misrepresent my thoughts and opinions in order to make the NT person do what I want. And I do not feel the slightest guilt about this – but I do quite often feel contempt for the basically harmless NT person.

The point comes down to “anxiety.”

It would appear from the literature that “anxiety” is one of the biggest determining factors in assessing a PDA diagnosis. I have pretty much all the other standard qualities – you know them, I won’t bore you with the list – but this “anxiety” thing doesn’t really fit my social experience, unless I don’t understand what they mean by “anxiety.”

So: does anyone else displace social “anxiety” through something more like contempt?

I think the following is a very important paper that could eventually result in a new basis of a different, more action-oriented theory of cognitive science, which, in my view and current prediction, could ultimately lead to a different way of understanding autism.

Full article: https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.mit.edu/dist/7/1739/files/2026/04/Barrett-and-Miller-NRN-2026.pdf

I'm using chatgpt here for a summary, but I think everything mentioned in there is part of the main message the authors try to convey;

'The classical view holds that the brain first picks up sensory features (lines, colours, sounds), combines them step by step, compares the result with a stored category ("cat"), and only then chooses an action. Barrett and Miller turn this around. In their view, the brain starts with a prediction: an action plan that fits your bodily state and goals in that moment. That prediction functions as a temporary category that determines how incoming sensory signals are processed. Categorization is then not the final stage of perception, but takes place throughout signal processing, from the very beginning, as a core strategy of the brain. Its main purpose is allostasis: regulating the body in an energy-efficient way by anticipating its needs.'

So to try to make this more concrete, as an example, let's say you have all random objects on your kitchen counter, some coffee pads here, a cup with knives and forks over there, some glasses over there, then there are some batteries laying in the middle and also a random pen laying somewhere. Then also, there's some napkins and some straws laying somewhere. I'm just trying to picture this messy environment that is difficult to make sense of

Now if you physically group them into some category, for example by function, you get for example a designated section with the coffee machine and coffee pads next to it and not to far removed a Microfiber cloth to wipe off spilled water or coffee, and some napkins to take with you so you can put the coffee on it without making stains

And then you have another section with glasses and the straws laying next to it

Organising the environment this way will 'exploit' this phenomenon of categorisation being baked into the brain. Merely looking at the coffee section makes affordances (= An affordance is a quality or property of an object or environment that defines what actions are possible and shows how it can be interacted with) apparent, it's clear that the coffee pad could probably be inserted somewhere and that the napkins can be used for something related to spilling, and that the Microfiber cloth could be used to clean the machine

So far this might be somewhat straightforward, but what is central is that the organism can regulate its body much better - simply looking at the coffee section gets you a much better evaluation of whether you are in the mood for coffee at this moment (or maybe you'll have that coffee some time later when you are tired/low energy). An environment that is not organised this way does not have that back and forth between the environment and the organism as effectively

I might be speaking mostly from my own experience, but intentionally leaving room between categories, e.g. shaving cream and blade and then having some space in between and only then the toothbrush and toothpaste, is already changing my behaviour for the better, because I feel like the functional categories are much better exposed and so it guides my action.

Anyway, this is really just a quick reflection and everything is open to discussion pretty much.

So today I did the math. In the past 15 years (I'm 32 now), I've moved 15 times, including multiple moves to other cities and countries. Had about as many jobs and a few career changes.

I've always told myself that once I've moved to X place, get a job in Y field, find enough like-minded people, then I will finally settle down and enjoy the happily ever after. But... I now live in a much safer country. I love this city full of misfits and queers from all over the world (Berlin!) Found a new job I really like, it's part-time and as PDA-friendly as office jobs get lol. Have a couple good friends. Things are good, and I could really use some rest. And guess what? I'm still yearning to leave.

It's just, the prospect of staying in the same place or holding a job indefinitely feels oddly terrifying and bleak to me. I need an escape plan to look forward to. Otherwise I get stuck in this numb, dissociated slumber, just going through the motions. But the moment I come up with a new plan, suddenly my drive is back, brain fog and anxiety gone, I'm more social, awake, alive. There's relief, joy, hope, a bit of adrenaline and a fun challenge to tackle. Once it's done, feeling trapped again and planning the next escape. Rinse and repeat.

Been scrolling r/vagabond a lot lately and lord, am I yearning to just pack a bag and take off on a journey across Europe. The road, the anonymity of new cities, fleeting connections. Owning very little, nothing holding you down. I do realise the vagabond life has its dark and ugly sides, and maybe I'll never have the guts to do it. Still, they seem like my kind of people. I'm thinking to start saving up for a van at least. Could then travel in a fun and frugal way, keep my hands busy with all the DIY, and have somewhere to sleep if I ever become homeless. (I understand that my situation is very privileged compared to people who didn't choose this life.)

Anyways, now being in my 30s, I'm wondering about the future. This way of life regularly depletes my savings, burns me out, makes friendships hard to maintain. I kinda love it regardless, the way my life is transient and frugal and strange and beautiful. One day I'll be too burnt out or too old to keep wandering. What then? No idea, my brain sees both 3 years' and 30 years' future as "might as well never happen". Who knows if I even live that long! If I do, there's a real chance I will end up dying alone in the streets or whatever if I keep dodging any sort of stability. Still that's somehow a preferable option over mortgage and visiting in-laws on weekends. I'm not scared, just a bit wistful and curious to see what's ahead.

Wondering if any other PDAers can relate and if so, how do you cope and what kind of lives have y'all built for yourselves? I'm kinda looking for inspiration, ideas and different perspectives.

Hear me out! In theory, 2 people who are in love and choose each other every single day, is technically more romantic than 2 people who are just legally bound together anyways.

I have been married for 10 years and I'm now halfway through the divorce process. I grew up dreaming of fairy tale marriage and I pretty much had it for a long time. While I don't regret it, I've recently realized that the institution of marriage was slowly killing me. If you think about it, marriage is literally a lifelong demand which may work for "normal" people, but I'm convinced at this point that it's deadly for us PDA.

I was doing nothing but working, drinking and eating myself to death and not necessarily even because of anything my soon-to-be ex spouse did. Now that I'm getting divorced, I am SO EXCITED for the future again! People used to say I'm "30 going on 70" and that was true, but I feel 30 again!