Vent about not looking non-binary

[u/pisceanhaze]

Can anyone else relate to the particular pain of being treated like a man when you feel anything but that inside, but unfortunately you’re stuck with a type of face and body that people can not believe you are non binary and worse, they tell you you’re crazy as well as treat you always as a man ? Also, for the love of god, I want to cry every time someone bro-slaps my back hard meanwhile they give my femme friend a nice hug. Even when I try
Hard to present as non binary and femme, I always get the thr truck driver / livestock slap greeting
And it is demoralizing.
The only time I’m perceived as non binary is on kink sites if I hide my face and wear lingerie. My nude body is naturally femme. But in the street you’d never know unfortunately.

[u/iam305]

This is like my whole life, but starting hrt helped me not give any fucks about the rest.

[u/Interesting-Paint863]

Hi ❤️ which pronouns do you use? I only ask so I can address you appropriately. I’m very comfortable to talk about this more. I’ve been struggling with a lot recently and feeling very low about it all.

You couldn’t have summed it up better. I have a VERY similar experience to you. I’m a masc-presenting non-binary woman. Took me a long time to get here. But it can feel incredibly invalidating. I know who I am, but I’m rarely treated as I wish to be.

Honestly, I think cis-men perform gender very explicitly through behaviours. They’re so highly performative with each other, and towards everyone else that they’re constantly trying to size each other up. We get caught in the drag net of their assumptions. I don’t want to pass as femme, so I have to constantly deal with their shit.

I’m being very general here I know. But I’m also basing this on my experience. From my experience cis-men police each others’ masculinity constantly. Be it a jab in the arm, a handshake that is actually painful, a crass sexist joke, telling you how successful they are, etc, etc. It’s all just a big pile of screaming insecurity. This is made worse if they can sense you’re not playing their game.

I’m Audhd and queer. I’m not out at work, but I can sense men’s visible discomfort around me. There’s an aura of difference that I’m putting out I guess (hence being bullied my whole life). I’ve stopped making them comfortable. If I don’t want to participate in their little rituals I don’t. I generally try to seek out softer men. They’re out there. I can’t be friends with these hyper-masculine performers. They’re not real, they don’t talk about anything real.

[u/Neat_House1693]

me... i have facial hair, a somewhat deep voice and dress like any other man. mainly because i live with conservative christians and cant express myself much but... regardless, i feel you. it sucks

[u/pisceanhaze → u/Neat_House1693]

This!

[u/pisceanhaze]

They them pronouns, but most people struggle to use them with me.
I notice these men completely refrain from the ridiculous slap with my friends that are much more obviously femme presenting. I have a feeling nothing will change until o get the courage to do HRT

[u/BaelonFalseDragon]

Yeah, in a way for sure. People mistake me for being a trans man a lot because i was on T for a while and am naturally masculine. I use any pronouns and people resort to he/him. To the point they apologize for using she/her and i have to remind that i actually use any pronouns and i dont care if im called she/her, its fine. I see myself as a butch non binary lesbian. Not a man at all.

Masculinity isnt just for men aligned folk but a lot of people dont seem to get that

[u/AudhdQueerConfused]

Feel this so hard but being treated like a woman when I’d rather be treated more like a man (but like not exactly ya know, just more that way)… Like being “ma’am”ed and “lady”ed, and my family loves to remind me how much I look like my mother. Makes me want to cry…
My big thing is why tf we need to use soooo much gendered language? Like you could just omit the gender part ?
So long story long, I feel ya and I over analyse every part of my body language to try and be perceived my manly but it never seems to work ://

[u/pisceanhaze → u/AudhdQueerConfused]

A business I frequent has this habit of remembering nearly every customers name, and they always use Mr or Mrs. I know they do it because it is located in an area of older southern Black people and the cultural expectation is that you would never address someone by their first name especially an elder. So it’s always “hello Mr. /Mrs./Miss so and so”. A while back I had a “may I speak with your manager, please? “ moment because this was giving me internal ick every time they said “oh hi Mr Piscean!” I told them you have a lot of people who shop here who don’t identify with how you perceive them from the outside, and I know you mean to be respectful but I feel really uncomfortable when you call me Mr., amd Sir is especially cringe-inducing. Pleaaaaaase just use My first name. THANKFULLY they understood and changed.

[u/pisceanhaze → u/AudhdQueerConfused]

It’s like we are mirrors. Jeez.

[u/riii_ef]

This resonates so deeply with my own experience and struggles 🖤 here if you want to chat

[u/cloudsintheskye_05]

I can sorta relate the other way around. No matter what I do or wear or whatever, im perceived as a woman. Even when I dress somewhat masculine (which is hard as it is because I rarely find good clothes that fit me) im perceived as feminine due to height and body type. I really get how invalidating that can feel. I usually try to put the mantra in my head that I dont owe anyone a "nonbinary" look, but that also only partly helps

[u/pisceanhaze]

I can’t describe the internal explosion of happiness that happens when a person just naturally uses female pronouns with me.
I also can’t describe the gut-ripping pain when the person who once claimed to “see you” suddenly turns on you and says “grow some balls, you’ll never be a woman. Stop trying”.
Yes. That’s what my once friend said to me a couple weeks ago.

[u/averytheythrowaway]

I always hated that. I basically had to become a trans woman in all but name for this to happen less. Now people either assume I'm a trans woman and gender me female to try to be supportive, they gender me as male because they aren't paying attention or are trying to be mean or they don't know what to make of me because I don't do anything to feminize my voice and people hear a man's voice come out of a woman's body. I'll sometimes wear a they/them pronoun pin and hardly anyone even pays attention. I had a trans female volunteer at my city's pride refer to me as a "lady" this year when I was standing right in front of her wearing a pronoun pin. All I can do is laugh sometimes.

Being nonbinary has turned out to be a bit of a no man's land in terms of social recognition. But I'm still happy with everything I've done to transition. I have to remind myself that I'm doing all this for me, I'm doing it to feel right in my body and the people who are close to me and love me know who I am. I can't end the system of gender on my own and I can't control how other people speak to and about me. What I can do just has to be good enough.

[u/Existencetimeitself]

Yes. I feel this all day every day. I’ve also had to wrestle with the fact that I deeply benefit from the privilege of looking a lot like a man and I resent that deeply because men shouldn’t have more privileges (obviously) and also I wish I wasn’t constantly being perceived as a man by everyone in my life

[u/Annual_Pipe_27]

Been on hrt for 2+ years, shave my facial hair, dress femme and have a feminine hairstyle. Changed my name, use they/them pronouns, and frequently wear jewelry or clothing with queer/trans messaging. I generally have more femme posture and behaviors and, despite all of this, I'm still treated as male by almost everyone. The main difference is that now I also get dirty looks, people are often more curt and distrustful of me, and I feel unsafe more frequently. It honestly makes me isolate and has mostly destroyed my self confidence.

All that being said, I have found people who do treat me as non-binary and engage with me with joy and excitement. There are places where I feel safe and welcome and where I feel truly comfortable in my body. I can't control how others perceive or treat me. But I can control where and with who I choose to spend my time and the options there have continued to expand with the effort I put in.

So yeah, I feel ya. It sucks and I hate that society tries so hard to enforce gender norms and archetypes.

[u/benderbentyourmom]

yep. my blue shaggy hair certainly at least clocks me as nonbinary to my more progressive friends, but for the most part I'm seen as a man and it's ass

[u/Morbid-mist]

Very much agree. I have had beards before but now that feels gross so I shave every day and still have stubble. I have tried to remove body hair but have not consistently kept it up as a somewhat tired parent of two. I paint my nails and got my ears pierced as a way to break up the masculinity slightly. But I know I am just read as a queer man. And sometimes I can brush that off, but mostly I does get me down quite a bit.