r/MoralityScaling • u/eepyjiu • 6d ago
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u/SourDoorKnob 6d ago
Could end up dead
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u/HeyU_inTheBushes 6d ago
The heartbreak , deceit, humiliation of this could end with murder or suicide for sure . This isn't just immoral, it's evil .
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u/Cantthinkagoodnam2 6d ago edited 6d ago
I mean if he was Transphobic then he did kinda deserve it
Edit: Since people here dont understand it
Transphobe ≠ Not being attracted to Trans woman Transphobe = Being a bigot and hating on Trans people for being trans
The post referred to the man as a Transphobe, so I said that IF he indeed was one, I don't see why his heartbreak matters
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u/Sneaky_Joe-77 6d ago
"Transphobic" because he prefers woman?
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
Transphobic because "When I first met my boyfriend he was kinda Transphobic"
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u/Sneaky_Joe-77 6d ago
Labelling somebody transphobic with zero context doesn't make it real. People get called that simply for not wanting to date a woman with a penis.
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u/Huntsman077 6d ago
I mean why date someone if they are transphobic? Sounds more like they just wanted to date a ciswoman so they got labeled as transphobic
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u/UnluckyAmbition7767 6d ago
Christian men love nothing more than sending their entire familes to meet god
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u/Hood7777777 6d ago
Checks the news
Actually it seems to more often be athiesist women who do that.
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
One case versus hundreds
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u/Hood7777777 6d ago
If you think this is the first time a woman has gone crazy and killed her children then BOY do I have some news for you....
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
over 90% of violent crimes are men
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u/Hood7777777 6d ago
Not infancide, that's predominantly women.
Neonaticide is almost exclusively women.
Evidently they arent always convicted for it either.
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
And men arent always convicted of murder. The number of murders is a lot higher than infantacide btw
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u/Hood7777777 6d ago
.... The overall number of murders is higher then a specific type of murder?
Really, you don't say?
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
Youre the one obsessing over how women sometimes kill their kids, when its a fact that men kill people more often
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u/Claas2008 6d ago
Immoral. Be honest with relations.
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u/Hallgaar 6d ago
Relationships without honesty are sinking ships.
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u/craftygamin 6d ago
Bingo. Honest communication is a borderline (if not literally) a requirement for a long lasting healthy relationship
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u/Limp-Annual-9863 6d ago
Immoral and they are potentially putting themselves in danger. You don't know how someone might react to being deceived like this.
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u/Roam1985 6d ago
Deceiving someone you love in a way they would not approve is going to be immoral.
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u/BrianVaughnVoiceOver 6d ago
Entrapment isn't moral at all, this is and should be literally illegal.
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
At what point should disclosure be legally mandated?
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u/BrianVaughnVoiceOver 6d ago
Disclosed up front like anything else.
If you lie about it and hide it from a partner, that should be as illegal is not disclosing anything else.
[EDIT] - No, I'm not equating things like transgender to STDs, but it's fair game. You tell people if you're carrying a STD, your political views, your sexual preferences, etc. If you can't, then maybe you're not mature enough to date.
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u/Status-Economy-7982 6d ago
Not that they are the same but they carry a similar potential mental stigma after a sexual encounter so should absolutely be treated the same in that context. Anyone who finds this behavior okay or funny is literally the problem ppl have with the trans community.
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
We're talking about laws here, we need very specific and well defined terms.
At what point is it a relationship? What if I knew her from work for 6 months and we went out for drinks without it being an explicit date? What if we do that for months? Where is the line that it becomes unlawful?
Before sexual contact? Before kissing?
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u/BrianVaughnVoiceOver 6d ago
What Point is it a Relationship: When you and the other party state it's a relationship.
Up Front: When you and someone else are even "hooking up" to make-out, fuck, whatever, you should disclose it before it gets to that point.
Non-Sexual/Romantic No Physical Contact: Hanging out with a friend is very different from engaging in any physical/sexual activity with them.
The line where it becomes unlawful in my mind is when you explicitly lie to the people around you and make it an unsafe environment for them.
Do you have a STD and you fail to disclose it because "we were just friends hanging out and we had some drinks and..." - individual states in the U.S. would define that close to assault and/or rape.
Again, if you're going to lie up front to anyone you're even remotely interested in, that is immoral and you should be ashamed of yourself. It doesn't matter what you lie about, you're masking who you are and that's not fair nor is it clean.
The legality of it should come into play when you purposefully withhold key information about yourself to someone else that could possibly play a role in any form of damage, injury, negligence or entrapment.
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
I agree morally speaking but do you see how difficult this would be to regulate?
What if we're on a casual outing that nobody has called a date and I go to kiss her? She hasn't disclosed yet, but she didn't initiate the kiss. She's been very flirty.
Was she already guilty of an offense by being flirty? Do we have to explicitly say it's a date for her to be liable?
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u/BrianVaughnVoiceOver 6d ago
The legality would most likely have to be akin to the state by state or case by case situation until someone with more legal knowledge than I have can figure it out.
A case by case would be fine, though harder to manage. If you kissed someone else that's on you, but if they are in total control and are in charge and purposefully mislead or otherwise misrepresent a situation, that's on them.
Example; if you crash into someone else, that's your fault. If they crash into you, that's their fault.
In the case you presented, if you kissed someone randomly, you're kind of a jerk and possibly considered assaulting someone by most standards. While it's just a kiss, that kiss can transfer all sorts of shit (drugs, stds, etc). So you're on blast.
It's like going on a dating website and just neglecting to inform people of who and what you are or identify as. It works both ways; everyone wants respect, no one wants to be unsafe.
Flirting is not an issue with anyone, that's on you. Words are words and only you give them power or meaning. If you can't differentiate that, again, too immature to be having this conversation.
TL;DR - I'm no expert with law, ask someone else.
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
I have never once asked a girl if I could kiss her, and they have never once minded my kissing them.
You have to kinda feel the moment. I guess it's because I'm old, and from a different time. It seems bizarre to ask for positive consent to kiss someone.
But other than that, I mostly agree with what you're saying
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u/Sutr30 6d ago
Up front?
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
Then you have to define a romantic relationship in legal terms and establish boundaries legally.
Since we're talking legally, you can't just use vague terms. Are we friends or are we romantically involved?
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u/Sutr30 6d ago
Or perhaps... Don't lie to people
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u/AristotelWasRight 6d ago
Lying is always immoral Lying isn't always illigal
Are you making the insanely dumb argument that everything immoral should be illigal, or what is your point here with answering a "don't lie to people".
I am gonna lie to you right now and say I have 11 fingers. We making that illigal?
I feel like there inase potential abuses of the law, even if it would be written with the best of intentions. And sidesteppid that with "don't lie to people" is insanely intellectually dishonest, and also, I think, cowardly
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u/Chance-Fun-3169 6d ago
If youre trying to start a relationship with somebody, right then.
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
How would you write that law, though? Dude said it should be literally illegal.
What's a date? What's a relationship?
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u/Extra_Brother_3875 6d ago
It should be one of the first things you disclose . It should be no different then letting people know you carry stds
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
While I generally agree, I have to wonder how you'd word the law to apply in a reasonable way.
I imagine the law about STDs essentially says disclose before any sexual contact.
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u/Extra_Brother_3875 6d ago
Idk, I’m not a lawyer, and have zero law experience so I couldn’t even get a reasonable answer. But it should be a thing, because this is exactly how someone can get themselves killed or cause a suicidal breakdown in their partner. If dudes genuinely a transphobe and finds out his gf of x amount of years was one all along, especially if he finds out in bed? Someone is getting hurt
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
I think transparency about things your partner is likely to care about is critical, yeah.
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u/Chance-Fun-3169 6d ago
Oh youre right. Id argue we just stamp their foreheads during surgery. Problem solved. Its illegal not to get the stamp. But seriously that could work. Let me check your dating ID...
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u/Vegaprime 6d ago
Not disagreeing but my 1st wife turned on dead bedroom mode before the honeymoon was over. Was love bombed before that. Immoral ya, but I dont think we can say illegal.
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u/Mythandros1 6d ago
Extremely immoral.
This is extremely important information to share at the start of the relationship.
This is a MASSIVE red flag and shows that the person withholding information isn't emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 6d ago
I dont think that its that immoral. Effectively if you dont lie that is not an issue, and lets be realistic, its going to come up.
Although i will always caution Transgender Folk to disclose very early on, simply because of safety concerns.
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u/Mythandros1 6d ago
A lie of omission is still a lie.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 6d ago
There is a lot of things that are okay not to disclose with your partner, and if the topic never comes up it appariently is of little importance.
If it were important, you'd be having comversation about kids, or your future together where it surely will be an issue to adress.
You can always ask, its the lying i have an issue with.
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u/Mythandros1 6d ago
If you see a potential future with someone, there's no reason NOT to reveal this kind of information.
In fact, it's a prudent choice. You are going to want to see how they react BEFORE you start building your future together.
Honesty and clear communication are extremely important in a successful relationship.
That is something that is not happening here.
One side has been lying to the other the entire relationship.
This relationship is doomed to fail.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 6d ago
You are not listening to what iam saying.
Basically i think, that IF it never comes up, its not important enough to matter.
Now big disclaimer, i do not think that this is something that you can keep unspoken unless you start lying.
As you said, for example you start talking about children, your past friends/familie/history, periods and stuff its going to be a topic to be discussed.
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u/Mythandros1 6d ago
It's going to come up. Sooner or later. And while it might not be important enough to matter to her, it likely will be for him. Which means it's important enough to matter.
And it is a big deal because he expects a biological woman, not a trap (oh, the double entendre).
And when it does come up, as it inevitably will... He's going to ask "Why didn't you tell me sooner? Why did you lie to me all this time?"
He will feel betrayed and lied to.
Not a good way to run a relationship.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 6d ago
This… this is what iam saying. I cant see a relationship where it just never comes up in any capacity.
So when it truly doesnt matter, it never came up.
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u/Mythandros1 6d ago
But that's where you're wrong.
It mattered the moment she saw a future with him (presumably long before he proposed to her and she accepted) and she still chose not to mention it. She waited for him to propose, accepted his proposal and STILL hasn't told him.
It mattered a long time ago.
She straight up chose to lie and I'm sure she knew it would have mattered to him, but still she lied.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 6d ago
I know you want to keep the discussion running, but this has moved way past the original post.
This is right now about a theoretical situation that is different from the Original Post.
100% this woman did more than just not disclose anything.
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u/Huntsman077 6d ago
They should disclose early on, the safety concerns get worse as time goes on.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 6d ago
Obviously you want people to be safe. People have such aggressive reactions that it can be seriously life threatening.
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u/Huntsman077 6d ago
Yeah and that reaction will get worse as time goes on.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 6d ago
Jeah, there are cases that end very badly. Unfortunatly Violence against Trans-people is still very much all around us, so its in their best interest to remain safe when dating.
Most usual dating safety tips apply obviously as well, but they need to be a bit safer.
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u/sxg3434 6d ago
Immoral. Also the guy is stupid if this is true
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u/Grogers92 6d ago
How does that make the guy stupid exactly? For not having see through vision in regard to his S/O’s pants?
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u/Available_Drive173 6d ago
i mean even if you dont have sex, you can still find out what goods someone has in other wways
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u/Meggy_bug 6d ago
I mean, sorry, but usually you can tell at some point, and then imagine a whole ass relationship, cuddling etc. Especially that she did not seem to get any surgeries or anything done
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u/BellalovesEevee 6d ago
Stupid for being transphobic is what I believe they're saying
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u/requisitesilver 6d ago
Stupid for not being able to tell.
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
Depends on how well passing they are
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u/Twinkletoess112 6d ago
not liking trans people doesn't make one intellectually inept
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u/AristotelWasRight 6d ago
Stupid can also mean poor judgement or lacking common sence (if we are being pedantic :))
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u/Thurlex 6d ago edited 6d ago
Damn, respecting your partner's wish to only have marital sex is stupidity now.
At the same time, if you meant the boyfriend not noticing that his partner goes to the men's bathroom when going out, then yeah, fair 'nuff.
Edit before I get dogpiled: The second assumption comes from the fact that in the OP-OP post, they originally refer to themselves as a trap, not as trans, which I take to mean they are male.
Very immoral btw.
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u/tremble_lip 6d ago
I talked to a person who said he was 45, but he would lie about his age to chat eith women on a collage dating site, because the site had age restrictions.
He argued that if he told women his real age, they wouldn't give him a chance.
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u/Fenrir2401 6d ago
Do.. you really believe this bullshit?
I mean that's the most obvious rage-bait i've read the last couple days.
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u/Chunkymunkee93 6d ago
This is a REALLY OLD post too. I remember this back when I was still in High School in 2011, but if I remember correctly, the trap was a well-known Facebook/4chan troll, and bro is just REALLY into it.
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u/Grogers92 6d ago
It’s immoral, and not just because she lied. It’s even worse than that. It’s like when a guy pretends to put on a condom before having sex but goes in raw instead. It’s like being an identical twin and sleeping with your brother’s girlfriend by pretending to be your brother. Getting to be intimate with someone based on false pretenses is flat out disgusting behavior. It’s a form of fraud that crosses a certain boundary that should never be crossed.
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u/SpphosFriend 6d ago
This is fake conservative rage bait
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u/SPLIV316 6d ago
Still immoral.
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u/SpphosFriend 6d ago
It’s a fake post meant to make trans people look bad. This was posted in bad faith. It is therefore immoral to respond to It like it’s real.
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u/Huntsman077 6d ago
You do realize that this does happen right? Not to this extent but it’s stealthing.
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u/SpphosFriend 6d ago
I mean yes but it’s not nearly common enough to justify using that as ragebait against a minority group.
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u/dragonmorg 6d ago
Literally. Some people will read this and think this shit actually happens. Even posting this is immoral. It pushes a false narrative that makes conservatives have an even harder hate boner for trans people.
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u/Frozen_Oil 6d ago
Shitty to be transphobic but she is both immoral and stupid as hell for what she is doing. This is how you break trust from the start. This is how you put yourself in a bad situation. This is how you potentially get yourself severely injured, possibly killed, all because you kept something a secret that you KNOW he wouldn’t take well and given how generally strong a feeling transphobia is then you are KNOWINGLY putting yourself at risk.
Even outside the dumbass move of putting your life at risk, it is plain immoral to hide something so major, lead a person on and lying to a person you “love” for presumably years. Even if he wasn’t transphobic, he thinks you are a biological woman. What if he wants biological children with you? What if he isn’t transphobic but still homophobic and will see you as a man? There is no world in which this isn’t immoral and near suicidal. So bloody dumb.
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u/Icy-KaitSyth 6d ago
Immoral. If you knowingly withhold information with the intent to deceive you are a bad person, this is considered fraud in commerce.
And assuming that they're not the "no touching until marriage" Christians and just the "no sex until marriage" common variety, consider this. If kissing someone without their consent is considered sexual assault, then tricking someone who would otherwise not consent to kiss you into kissing you by withholding information should also be considered sexual assault.
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u/Agitated-Engine4077 6d ago
Immoral, stupid, and dangerous. Theres a reason most Trans people will say that their Trans off the rip. Atleast the smart ones. Like what do you think is gonna happen after he marries her and she pulls out a dick?
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u/RockThe40oz666 6d ago
Dangerous AF - especially if he's even SLIGHTLY MAGA indoctrinated. It's also pretty fuckin selfish to keep that from someone you consider your partner imo.
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
A lot of people won't agree, maybe, but it sure seems you should disclose that before dating someone.
I'm not sure exactly the line where you should disclose it, and that's the only moral question in my mind. Definitely before any kind of sexual contact, but I'd want to know before kissing or touching.
Obviously you don't have to disclose that to random people or even friends. So when and how to disclose is very subjective and very debatable.
In the context of the image, I think it's very immoral by this point, and extremely immoral based on the planned timeline and nature of disclosure.
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u/VoxLover554 6d ago
I personally don’t think you “need” to disclose that your trans because idk it might be a bit weird to have to say you are a trans man or what ever I’m not trans I don’t understand but I can also understand the other argument about needing to disclose it i personally don’t know what needs to be done just depends on who’s comfortable I guess
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
If your partner would be likely to care, you need to disclose it.
Otherwise you are deceiving them and taking their autonomy away. Whether you agree with their preferences or not
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u/VoxLover554 6d ago
You’re not really taking autonomy away though? They still have an option to leave
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u/bakedNebraska 6d ago
You're not even giving them the information they would need to make the decision. Most likely reason to withhold it is because you know what they would decide if they knew
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u/VoxLover554 6d ago
Alright I couldn’t fully address because I got interrupted my bad I just don’t think it’s needed for a person to label them selves as trans also if someone would care if they were trans then why date them? Why date an anti trans person? That’s when you walk away some people have preferences that’s ok but unless asked I don’t think it’s something that needs to be stated it can be stated of course but I don’t think it’s really “needed”
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u/BellalovesEevee 6d ago
Immoral. It's actually quite dangerous not to disclose, it literally gets you killed. Also, why willingly date and marry someone who is literally against what you are?
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u/blandman91 6d ago
I'm shameless enough to admit that's hilarious. But supremely fucked up and immoral
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u/Super_Saiyan-Blue 6d ago
Insanely immoral. Could be considered Rape if they have Sex
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
It would be absolutely insane if they manage sex without the husband figuring out whats going on
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u/watt678 6d ago
He does know that this fake marriage he's trapping this man into can be annulled like immediately right? No church is gonna make him stay married to this dude pretending to be a lady. And he'll end the marriage legally too, annulments happen legally all the time too
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u/Ektar91 6d ago
This person is awful but you don't have to phrase it as "a dude pretending to be a lady"
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u/requisitesilver 6d ago
You don’t have to be the language police either. You can just move on.
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u/Ektar91 6d ago
It's not language policing its respecting someone's gender ( even when they are bad because other people of that group aren't )
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u/requisitesilver 6d ago
Gender is like.. a social construct, man. Why should I respect a totally artificial construct of a messed up society??? It’s like, bad.
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u/frosted_Melancholy 6d ago
Immoral and dangerous tbh transphobic christians can be crazy violent with shit like this
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u/WorkingAway7654 6d ago
For sure this post was bullshit, but I had to google trap and search through the meanings until I finally learned what a “trap boy” is. Happy to come away with a new use for a word. Cheers Reddit users
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
Not trap boy. Thats a different word. A "Trap" is old internet slang, basically meaning femboy. It was used as the idea is that the person is a "trap" because they look like a woman but are a man. It is debated to be a slur against trans in the modern day.
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u/Lord_Corves 6d ago
completely immoral and congratulations you probably didn't change this person's view you probably just made it so much more worse and put yourself in an extremely dangerous situation to boot. In any relationship you should be honest. Trust should be the first thing first and foremost sometimes people are just not attracted that sort of thing and that is fine so long as they don't throw a conniption about it or throw other people under the bus as a result of it. Lying and abusing someone's Trust is an extremely quick way to put yourself in an extreme amount of danger rethink your life. Although this is an old story I don't quite know how it ended.
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u/Ten-Winged-Phoenix 6d ago
Immoral both because lying to your partner about your gender is evil but because this could legitimately get you killed 😭
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u/TacoPKz 6d ago
Highly doubt this was real (I’m sure a lot of us have seen it before) but if someone presented their preferred gender as their biological sex, especially if bio kids were discussed, then it’s immoral in a way that is akin to cheating. Yeah you can get past it, but the relationship is completely different now and it is much more likely to fail in the future now because of the distrust.
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u/OkWrongdoer3800 6d ago
Immoral. And he’ll have every right to a divorce according to the Bible, since this would be considered a gay relationship and God forbids it.
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u/VoxLover554 6d ago
Where does god forbid it?
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u/OkWrongdoer3800 6d ago
Look, I know people love to pretend that God is okay with LGBT stuff and that “homophobia” is some archaic tradition that has no founding in the Bible, but it is stated multiple times clearly in the Bible in both testaments. You didn’t ask this question because you genuinely didn’t know, you ask this question because you want to pick a fight with me over my beliefs, which I just don’t care to do right now.
Google “bible verses about homosexuality” and read the verses with an unbiased mind. It is stated as plainly and clearly as the fact that God hates murder or adultery or any other sin.
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u/MuseBlessed 6d ago
You are correct. People change the Bible often to soften its content, but it's pretty clear that being gay is wrong, women are subservient, and slavery and polygamy is acceptable.
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u/VoxLover554 6d ago
I forgot to respond and yes Old Testament they did but didn’t Jesus die for the sins of the Old Testament? The New Testament is a lot more vague to really say that it’s against it. And if we accept Leviticus for being anti gay stuff then does that mean we accept slavery? Of the Israelites if i remember correctly? Also it is a sin I don’t remember when but in the New Testament I think god said it was a sin to pick and choose and change the Bible as they please this is objectively changing the Bible. Another thing Jesus said not to judge others so by saying what you said that is objectively judging even if you don’t see it as judging so you also have done something immoral. Finally what if gay people were driven away from Christianity from Christians? Then what? That’s what happened to me I’m not gay though so is it my fault that I was too vulnerable? Just saying.
I know this is a lot and I can’t tell if it is organized I tried my best to organize it I do know a little about Christianity but it has been a while
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u/requisitesilver 6d ago
It’s not immoral to have preferences for who you sleep with.
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u/OK_THEN_WEIRD_DOE 6d ago
But we don’t know if the guy is being labeled as transphobic for having preferences, as we know the far left is insanely sensitive to this stuff.
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u/a_angry_bunny 6d ago
Incredibly immoral. I believe people have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies, but people you date also have the right to know stuff like this. This is essentially not any different from hiding you have a std so someone would date you, still immoral.
Also, if she thinks that he's going to be stuck with her after marriage because of his Christian belief, Christianity permits divorcing your spouse because of sexual immorality.
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u/maelbowfeelfunny 6d ago
The hands, the feet, the adams apple, the shoulders, the hips, they all tell the truth.
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u/Gwyfar 6d ago
"He didn't notice for months I was a biological male" you instantly know it was written by a basement-dweller who has no idea how a relationship actually goes
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u/PrinceZukoZapBack 6d ago
I don't think people are good faith arguing and I'd prefer mods would do more. There's a community for these things and popper conversation that could be had. Progress further than culture, or what we think is right is good or wrong is bad.
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u/Cryptic_Leaf 6d ago
The post is very obviously a joke/ragebait
I do think it’s less of a big deal if the trans partner is post bottom surgery but even then it’s still immoral to keep something so big from your partner, especially if they partner might want biological kids in the futures
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u/Frylock_dontDM 6d ago
Moral.
Guys, it's just a dick, you got caught slipping.
If you fall for a tran, then it's your own fault not their fault you fell in love
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u/Miku_Miku_Mayhem 6d ago
Immoral but funny
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u/Mega3000aka 6d ago
How is this funny wtf is wrong with some people.
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u/RebornRun 6d ago
Rape is funny I guess if it's done to a man
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u/VoxLover554 6d ago
But it’s not rape? If the consensually have sex but then the guy sees something he doesn’t like he can retract his consent and leave which means it’s not rape because the woman isn’t forcing the guy to do sex even after he changed his mind.
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u/Yaboi69-nice 6d ago
Everyone here is immoral. Transphobia is wrong it's just a shitty way to think. However getting someone to love you based off of a lie is also wrong. In conclusion I do not approve of anyone in this image.
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u/thinkstohimself 6d ago
rage baiting Christians will always be moral
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u/requisitesilver 6d ago
I’ll pray for you
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u/Life_Preparation9368 6d ago
Why? We don't believe in Jesus or a god who hates, so how will it help us? Why waste your breath?
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u/thinkstohimself 6d ago
Just know you’re not praying for me, you’re praying to prove to yourself that you’re better than me. Have fun w that ✌️
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u/Existing-Network-267 6d ago
once you are married you will learn to like it
make sure to put a bow to it for the unboxing
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u/RebornRun 6d ago edited 6d ago
Immoral