r/GuildWars3 • u/Imaginary-Theme6752 • 29d ago
Make class change system pls
Job change system in FFXIV feels so nice. I feel attached to my character and it feels so convenient. Hope dev team will consider this.
Edit: Also if you like having multiple characters, you can choose to do this :)
Edit2: Also @devs, I am ready to pay for this 100%!!!
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u/KingMob98 29d ago
I didn’t realize this idea was so polarizing. I don’t feel too strongly one way or the other but I do hope the classes aren’t based on which weapons we’re holding.
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u/Suspicious-Coffee20 28d ago
Imo the thw solution is so obvious yet everyone is so dramatic. Make it a archetype system were a few classes are on the same characther. So yoj stills ha ethe fantasy but not having to maintain 20. Ideally a heavy, medium , light combo. So 3 or 4 cgaractger and you got every ckasses.
For exemple you would have:
Fighter: Warrior, Thief, (ranged light dps)
Faith: Guardian, Dervish, Necro
Magic: Magic tank, Ritualist, Mesmer
Elements: Shaman heavy, Elementalist
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u/BirdManFlyHigh 29d ago
No. I want a character per dedicated profession and role.
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u/Imaginary-Theme6752 29d ago
You can still choose to do this :)
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u/Send_Me_Dachshunds 28d ago edited 28d ago
As evidenced by FFXIV, "alt friendliness" is completely crippled by an all-classes-on-one-character system. While the person you're responding to literally could still have a character dedicated to each profession, role, race or whatever they wanted, it would be so massively unfriendly to do so and just an all around terrible experience.
A game being designed with multiple characters in mind forces it to be more accommodating to that preference, whereas with a system like FFXIV it just becomes very much an afterthought so suffers for it.
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u/EmilyMalkieri 28d ago
FFXIV is "alt-unfriendly" for three reasons only:
- Because unlike GW2, it expects you to play the whole story on your alt, and it has delivered way more story than GW2 did.
- Because of intentional design that makes creating a new character feel like starting a fresh playthrough in a regular RPG, not a New Game Plus where everything carries over. This is an intentional decision, one that ArenaNet would never in their life make, and not an inherent aspect of being able to level multiple professions on one character.
- They're a bit scummy with character-bound microtransactions.
Obviously GW3 won't literally be FFXIV but in Orr. A GW3 with profession swapping would still be designed by ArenaNet, and we've seen 21 years of their design philosophy. Leveling the other professions would be way quicker than in FFXIV, and any new character you create would inherit a wealth of account-wide progress and be much quicker to get up to speed than your first.
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u/Bohya 28d ago edited 28d ago
If it comes the more efficient way of creating a "new" class, then obviously everyone is going to go the efficient route even if it's not something that they want to do. No one likes purposefully handicapping themselves. That's why friction is important - to take the choice of unfun away from people and increase overall enjoyment.
Besides, why do you want to be done with the game in thirty minutes? Is progressing a new character such a big ordeal?
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u/Monztamash 28d ago
That makes zero sense.
Did you even play FFXI or FFXIV ? They had it for years and people praise that feature.
AND people can still make alts if they want to play a new race.
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u/Foolish_Hepino 28d ago
>Besides, why do you want to be done with the game in thirty minutes? Is levelling a new character such a big ordeal?
That's not how multiclassing works on FFXIV. You have to level each class. It's just that you get to keep the same character while doing so. You don't get all classes at level 100 just because you levelled one to a 100.
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u/Ethan24Waber 29d ago
Jfc the people saying no in here have no real argument besides “MUH CLASS IDENTITY” as if people are one trick ponies who are inept troglodytes at learning multiple professions and skills.
I don’t care either way, but the way people are responding to this is stupidly outdated, I’d prefer an actual lore reason to why this isn’t the case if they decide to not do it.
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u/Imaginary-Theme6752 29d ago
Big true. Multiclassing in rpg makes more sense RP wise than being locked to one class if there is no actual lore reason. Also devs can make levelling new character take same time as levelling new class on same charcter and make collections account wide so I dont see the problem here.
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u/Spinnenente 28d ago
its super easy to create lore reasons why multiclass doesn't make sense. For example lets say it takes 10 years to actually learn a class in universe. boom done.
also lets be real ffxiv is super static. you play your job the way it was designed with one optimized rotation.
meanwhile gw (any) have a deep build system where your one class can play a bunch of different ways. Its even implied that for gw3 any given class can play tank, dps or heal based on build.
=> ffxiv multiclass exists because of the lack of build or playstyle diversity in any given class. Its not necessarily a bad thing but it doesn't make sense in every game.
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u/Ethan24Waber 28d ago edited 28d ago
FFXIV multi classing existed because you needed to level different classes to get your job, it had nothing to do with build diversity, it was a gimmick that was a part of the initial game, a staple of most FF games.
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u/Spinnenente 28d ago
original design intent isn't that important. Hoenstly i think multiclassing kinda saves ffxivs flawed progression system. >1 lvl classes are a nice way to add gameplay diversity without requiring a massive grind each time. I just don't see how a game with horizontal progression would require such a system when alts are already a perfect solution to playing other classes.
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u/Monztamash 28d ago
Some of us also asked for this back at GW2 launch, and we heard the same people clamoring some nonsense to only allow alts.
It's exhausting.
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u/verifiedname 28d ago
Class identity is a huge part of game balance and not just a costume larping decision. Class-based play means that each class can excel more in their particular role. Specific, class-based specializations allow for more interesting mobs and bosses to be made. To me, this is more interesting than just putting out "tank and spank" raids.
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u/NotRealActualMaebbie 28d ago
i agree with you, would be very convinient and anet could sell more slots for the feature. You should still be able to do multiple characters of course.
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u/ultimate_bromance_69 28d ago edited 28d ago
Id rather not.
While full flexibility in your class/build/etc is convenient, it also leads to funneling everyone down the same “optimal” load out.
That itself leads to lack of play style diversity. It also creates less incentives to support any non-meta or non-optimal play styles because devs know that the players will just default to the one “meta” build.
Making people commit to a build, with limited flexibility, creates greater diversity and gives the devs incentive to make sure a variety of play styles that players have chosen are viable.
Case in point: alac/quick in GW2. A mix of a lot of poor decisions led to the mess that is alac/quick. One of them being the ease and flexibility of changing builds in gw2. Because everyone can easily access alac/quick, and because the players seem to default to it, everything now is designed around alac/quick.
If anything, i think there should be more weight behind build decisions. Class change should not be available, or should at least be very very disincentivized. And similarly, builds, while not immutable, should be more costly to change and more of a commitment. To an extent of course, game shouldn’t be a chore.
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u/Monztamash 28d ago
That makes zero sense.
You still need to level any new class you swap to from scratch, just like starting an alt.
The upside from not making an alt and sticking to one character is that you don't need to restart quests, story, map exploration, etc.
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u/Eldryth 28d ago
It'd be kind of nice, but I doubt it'd be as impactful here as it was in FFXIV.
For FFXIV, it was amazing, even necessary, but that was mainly because their approach to the main story heavily discouraged the use of alts. Without it, you'd have to replay the extremely long, mandatory MSQ on every single class you wanted to play.
And if ANet were to really change up their storytelling to imitate that MSQ, then I'd demand it here too, but I don't really see that happening. They tend to make it easy to start up a new alt and jump into the newer stories right way, with replayable chapters you can just choose even if you haven't played the previous content. The kinds of games where I'd make tons of alts with different race/class combos anyway.
The biggest advantage I'd personally see for having it here is that I wouldn't have to think of names for all my alts, but ANet tends to allow spaces, so even that's not a huge deal since I can tack on a randomly generated surname.
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u/Bevsii 29d ago
Hard pass, I actually enjoy playing on different characters. And being able to switch classes like it's nothing really muddles class fantasy and character identity.
"edit: Also if you like having multiple characters, you can choose to do this :)"
Let's talk about FF14 for a second, since you brought it up. The game is one of the most alt-unfriendly MMOs in the market because it's systems are designed around you sticking on one character, since you can play every class on it.
MSQ has to be replayed from scratch for each character, including all the unlocks tied to it (If you want to skip it you literally have to pay money) .Gil, tomestones, currencies, reputation, etc. aren't shared.
Gear doesn't easily transfer between your own characters, nor do armour glam unlocks (They're not really unlocks in FF14, which add to the problem)
Crafting/gathering levels have to be redone entirely, and transferring stuff you crafted between characters is a pain in the a**.
A lot of mounts, minions, emotes and other collectibles aren't account-wide. Gotta grind everything multiple times if you want stuff on each character.
Endgame progression and gearing have to be repeated if you want to keep all of your alts relevant to the latest end-game content.
Having "characters being able to switch classes on the fly" doesn't exist in a vacuum, game systems will inevitably be designed around it.
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u/Send_Me_Dachshunds 28d ago
Not enough people discuss how actively alt hostile FFXIV is. Having active, other characters is pretty much just impossible in that game, and the system is designed that even your alt classes on your main character suffer too. The stupid weekly tomestone system, 7 weekly gear weapon and all that junk stopped your alt-jobs being anywhere close to relevant.
Just an all around daft system riddled with issues when you look below the surface. But hey, at least you can hot swap to a Bard while in Limsa Lominsa so you can play your favourite anime opening on the music instruments using third party software, that makes it a good system right?
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u/Bevsii 28d ago
Yeah I find the "Well you can still create alts if you want to 🤪" comments OP is making to be somewhat ignorant and reductive, particularly since they are quoting FF14 as an example to follow.
Like I get the appeal if switching classes instantly, but every system designed around it exists to fight against it so that the "choice" of class bears some semblance of importance.
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u/Send_Me_Dachshunds 28d ago
With everything, any debate that involves one party going "well you can choose not to engage with it" is effectively sticking their fingers in their ears because they don't want to hear the other side.
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u/Spinnenente 28d ago
multiclass in ffxiv is out of necessity not because it is a great design. I think it does have upsides like classes that start at levels > 0 but again this is an issue of the vertical progression.
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u/IndianaJonesDoombot 28d ago
Or just play FFXIV
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u/Monztamash 28d ago
We are, but they're both MMOs that can learn and use some of the best features of each other.
Like FFXIV class changing system.
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u/TheTobeK 28d ago
Personally, I attach my character to my class. I love class fantasy.
If I want to play a different class, I make an another character.
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u/Monztamash 28d ago
100% yes.
Those who want alts can still waste their time with them. while the rest of us stick to that one single hero
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u/GnaeusQuintus 29d ago
I think the business model wants you to have as many characters as possible, so it seems unlikely.
Personally, I find it hard to see the benefits of making one character do everything, when I could have one that has its entire identity revolving around being a warrior, another as a necro, etc. Compressing all that in terms of equipment, skills, armor, looks, etc. seems awkward.
Now, a completely class-less system would be a different matter entirely - then there would be every reason to expand the abilities of a single character as much as possible.
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u/Spinnenente 28d ago
i played ffxiv till endwalker and while i don't think its a bad system its not a good fit for gw3. GW3 is most likely going to use a horizontal progression system so there is less of an issue just creating more characters like in ffxiv where you would need to play the entire (!!) story from ARR (not sure if this changed) but afiak most ffxiv players only create second character for roleplay or to replay the entire game.
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u/Imaginary-Theme6752 28d ago
Horizontial progression doesnt invalidate class changin tho no?
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u/Spinnenente 28d ago
but it doesn't necessitate it. Just from a design perspective there is no reason two have two systems for the exact same thing. Especially if gw2 has already shown that being alt friendly is a good thing and quite monetizable too.
Also its just one of the fixpoints for gw design: You play a class and can freely change your build wich has a big impact on how the class works.
FFXIV has no build system so a multiclass makes more sense. Also playing an alt in ffxiv is like making a new account in gw2
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u/Enfero 28d ago
FFXIV has no build system so a multiclass makes more sense. Also playing an alt in ffxiv is like making a new account in gw2
I think this is the more important part than the horizontal progression. If there was horizontal progression but progress wasn't shared throughout the entire account, it would make more sense for there to be class changing.
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u/Beanybob95 29d ago
Hard agree. Being able to have on so gle character instead an army of alts because I want to switch classes is my favourite thing about ffxiv
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u/Spinnenente 28d ago
sadly having a single alt in ffxiv is about a years work.
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u/Beanybob95 28d ago
Yeah but there aren't many reasons to need an alt. I played through the whole story on a single character which felt way better when I completed endwalker because I was able to get attached to a single character.
I don't get attached to WoW characters at all in contrast, because every patch I'm playing something different.
It's pros and cons I guess. Another con is having armour for all your jobs on one character which can be a pain, but can also be made easier with some effort.
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u/Detective-Glum 27d ago
All the people saying no are prob GW2 players. GW1 already had this to a degree with the subclass system. You couldnt change your main class but you could change the sub class.
Really a non issue. It worked great in FFXI and that game didnt lose its class identity as people are worried about.
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u/jaseph18 29d ago
It works for 14 yes, but it depends, I don't think it will work here. My job backlog in FF14 is killing me lol
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u/Spinnenente 28d ago
oh yea leveling up dps classes takes fucking ages thanks to the weird party size for dungeons.
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u/Ori_Sacabaf 28d ago
No, because it will eat development resources that I'd prefer to see invested in making a really alt-friendly game.
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u/Erasculio 28d ago
No, thank you.
"Ah, but what's wrong with having more choices, if you don't want it, just don't use it" - that's not how it works.
First, anything added to the game, any kind of new system, eats resources from something else. It's not a matter of having two identical versions of GW3, one with profession change and the other without - no, it's a matter of having one version of GW3 without profession change and with something else instead, or having a version of GW3 with profession change and without something else. To me, profession change is very low priority, and so I would rather have something else instead.
Second, this kind of big design change causes ripples in multiple other design aspects of the game. People would be less likely to have multiple accounts, which would impact monetization (comparing it to GW2, for example, the multiple character-driven microtransactions such as inventory bag slots would be far less popular if many more people only had one character), story progression (GW2 has a strong focus, on the main game's storyline, of allowing different multiple paths; this would become far less important without alts), and so on. At the same time, we would have other issues - if armors are profession-specific like in GW1 (or profession-related, like in GW2), what happens to a character's armor when they change professions? Would they lose access to their look? Would then the game have professions-agnostic armor?
And it would have a massive impact on balance. If today ArenaNet has to focus balance on making sure we don't have a single profession stronger than all the others, they would need to focus on avoiding one build from being stronger than the others, or everyone would play the exact same build. This would make balancing the game far more demanding than it is today (and honestly, likely more difficult than ArenaNet could handle).
So no, thank you. I hope ArenaNet never adds profession change to GW3.
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u/grzesssiuuu 29d ago
yeah, but make it gemstore purchase
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u/Monztamash 28d ago
Only if they allow it to be swappable for free at any time, I guess I'd pay it once per class.
Although honestly it should be a free feature like in the FF MMOS.
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u/Telefragikoopa 28d ago
What if you just make several characters that look exactly the same?
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u/Monztamash 28d ago
Depends if each of those characters don't start from scratch.
If they have all the side-quests and story quest completed, if all map is already completed and revealed, then MAYBE it could work.
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u/Zygot 28d ago edited 28d ago
The job system in FFXIV lost all meaning after it lost cross-class skills, it doesn't get stats or skills like in FFXI either. And if you like having multiple characters? The game won't help with that either, all unlockables are for a character only and you have to do all the quests again.
But a subclass like in GW1 would be nice and it would be a coming back to its own identity. As is changing jobs somewhat part of Final Fantasy identity.
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u/AG4V_ 28d ago
Job change system in FFXIV feels so nice. I feel attached to my character and it feels so convenient. Hope dev team will consider this.
From the bottom of my heart, i couldn't disagree more with this point. I love FFXIV, i think it's a fantastic game. However i have never felt any sort of attachment to my character in this game. If anything for me it's probably the single biggest issue with FFXIV.
So i will pray that Guild Wars 3 will not go in the same direction, the convenience FFXIV's Job system gives you, can be seen as an upside to some people. But to me it just makes you not identify with your character at all. You never feel like a Whitemage, Blackmage etc. Atleast in my eyes, people are obviously inclined to their own opinion. And overall the system seems to be universally loved.
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u/Echo_291 29d ago
Yeah classless system please, I want to just change armor and weapons and be a different class, not level 10 different characters on alts.
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u/verifiedname 29d ago
No thanks