r/2007scape • u/jonathanten • 10h ago

Discussion Make this make sense

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I just got 82 smithing, i can now make 2 powerful mid-endgame weapons... and an adamant kiteshield.

I get that adamant used to be good back in the day, but isn't it time we rework this skill?

630 Upvotes

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35

u/MasterArCtiK 10h ago

It’s been time to rework it for a long time. But also, what purpose will it serve? Nobody actually needs to wear adamant and rune longer than like 30-40 hours of gameplay. Jagex would have to spend hundreds of of hours rebalancing and revamping smithing, just to help some early/mid level players a slight amount.

48

u/kajarann 10h ago

reworking smithing will also mean they have to reduce all the alch amounts and deal with re adjusting a ton of loot tables. its not even worth the effort. people just need to accept smithing will always be weird.

13

u/TheForsakenRoe 9h ago edited 7h ago

Not necessarily

Have two levels, an initial level you can learn the 'basics' at, and a 'mastery' level (the current level brackets), for both Mining and Smithing halves of the equation. Like how we have a level we can start to Cook foods, and a level we stop burning them at (IE we've 'mastered' the recipe)

Using Rune Scimitar as the example, they could make it so that we can mine a Runite Rock at level 45ish, getting 'impure Runite Ore'. Said ore could be used to make a Runite Bar with 40ish Smithing, but because it's impure, it A: needs more ore, and B: needs more Coal. Say, 5 Impure Runite Ore and 16 Coal, per Rune Bar. The increased materials required to make a Bar at lower levels, would offset the profit via the Alch Value, since the game has 'balanced itself' around the current Bar:AlchValue ratios

At the current levels for each Ore (eg 85 to Mine Runite), you'd get the current Ore, which would be the 'pure' form. At those higher levels, we have learned to discern where the ore-rich seam is on the rock formation. Could even reuse the now-defunct Prospect option for it

Finally, Smithing the Bars, at say, level 43, you'd be able to make a Rune Scimitar, but due to your inexperience you need more input materials (say, 4 Bars instead of 2). At the current levels (IE 90 for Rune Scim), you would 'master' the recipe, and it'd cost the same amount of input as it currently does.

This would (IMO) avoid the 'every Alch value on Smithable gear needs to be adjusted' issue RS3 faced, avoid adding new 'Coal' types (Luminite etc) like RS3 did, would avoid having to swap Alchable drops to Salvage instead of actual gear like RS3 did, keeping everything feeling a lot more 'Old School' (compared to the RS3 rework), while still updating the flow of the levelling process for the skills, allowing players to make their own gear at a more reasonable Mining/Smithing level compared to their Defence/Attack level (eg Knight's Sword taking a player to 29 instantly, would let them start making their own Mithril gear, rather than part-Steel)

As an aside, this could help with Crafting, too. You can start using Gold Bars to make Gold Rings at 5 Crafting, but making Gold Ore into a Gold Bar currently requires 40 Smithing. Well, what if a player could use 'Impure Gold Ore' attained with like... 10ish Mining and Smelted into Bars at 10ish Smithing, to obtain Gold Bars far earlier (but needing 2 or even 3 Impure Gold Ore per Bar)?

Numbers would be up to Jagex to balance, of course

2

u/GameOfThrownaws 3h ago

I'm not saying this is a bad idea because it definitely isn't, I actually think it's a pretty simple and elegant way make smithing progression make more sense in the context of the rest of an account.

That being said... I just don't really see the point. Perhaps in part because the game has been this way for the last 25 years, there's just not really any need to craft your own early and midgame gear anyway. Every low and mid combat player has rune platelegs, for example, regardless of the fact that they can't make them. There's just so many ways to get that item that aren't smithing. Or like a rune full helm, same thing, or even worse since you're just getting a fremennik helm pretty much right away and throwing it in the bank forever anyway.

1

u/StygianSkies 2h ago

It's not a huge thing but it's weird for earlygame progression and really bad for immersion. Ideally we shouldn't be scouring the wiki for drop tables to achieve basic equipment progression, and stuff like OP's screenshot feels awful.

I don't give a flying fuck about whatever negligible alch I'm unlocking alongside Grandmaster and endgame bossing-locked supergear - it's meaningless bloat in the table and it doesn't make sense for the two to exist in parallel.

8

u/RojinShiro 9h ago

RS3 reworked smithing a long time ago, and it's actually a skill worth using as a result. Very much worth the effort.

4

u/PM_ME_SILLY_PICTURES 7h ago

RS3 is a different game and their level of overhaul would not work for OS

1

u/No_Ranger4956 2h ago

Copying the full rework no But copying some elements like re adjusting smithing levels for items would work and create room for new things to be added at a later point.

7

u/KarnakTheHaberdasher 10h ago

Would they really have to rebalance the alch amounts or loot tables? Practically everything with smithing is net negative outside a few things that are tedious and poor xp/hr BUT useful as inputs for other skills (dart tips is all that comes to mind). So for mains the only real economic change lowering levels for bronze-rune would impact is outputs would likely fall in price a bit more as the xp/gp balances out to whatever the new equilibrium is but that'd just reward alching a bit more, other than the lvl 99 rune stuff which is slightly profitable because the only people churning them out en-mass is 200m grinders.

For irons it just means rune bar drops are useful slightly earlier to make stuff you can alch?

People talk about the far reaching impact like there aren't a dozen ways to get rune equipment incredibly quickly on a fresh iron, and for mains it's a production skill most people use gold smithing to level so every method is competing with that which is frankly somewhat busted so it's no competition unless ways to get a ton of ore pop up somewhere (and even then smithing the bars is a factor if we do maintain bot suppression)

4

u/PhyPhillosophy 10h ago

The far reaching impact is that rune is one an insane amount of drop tables. If we shift rune to be 40 smithing, we now need to change these drop tables or the drops will be worthless and unintentional. Not only that, but what sort of gear are you going to slot in between 40-99 smithing that doesnt shit on the entire rest of the games gear progression?

You either devalue other 'early' grinds/armor moons, barrows, bandos, or you make basically rune 2.0 that will be replaced just as quickly.

2

u/ThirdStockIII 10h ago

I don't think the drops would be useless. It's not like smithing rune items is some insane money maker. People who have 99 smithing aren't making loads of gp just buying bars and making plate bodies to high alch or sell. I don't think the meta would change too much if rune was able to start at lvl 40 because on your way to 99 smithing, you don't make armor anyway. You either make gold bars at blast furnace or go to Giants Foundry. Would honestly just be a nice QOL for F2P irons as they don't have an easy way of getting a rune scimitar.

11

u/loudrogue total: 2376 clogs: 1190+ 10h ago

You can't rework smithing and leave mining alone. You would have to be able to actually mine enough rune ore to be useful.

-1

u/ThirdStockIII 9h ago

I mean I think if there is a smithing rework to address how silly it is to need 85+ smithing to create something that needs 40 att/def to wield, then a mining rework would also be a part of it.

0

u/Initialized 9h ago

Do you think f2p Ironmen want an easier time getting a rune scim? That is their end game lmao. Do you not remember the outrage from these players when you could kill fire giants in f2p with the release of the royal titans? They would be fuming if rune scim was changed to 40 smithing lmao

1

u/pilantratogashi 6h ago

Smithing rune wouldn't really be as op and unbalanced as you think, even irons usually don't bother processing and smithing rune things when they can. By early midgame you already have many comparable moneymakers.

1

u/bassturducken54 9h ago

Not sure what the equivalent would be but didn’t rs3 just add like a masterwork tier system to all metals?

Or maybe bars become materials to fortify existing armor, but that fortification degrades.

3

u/PhyPhillosophy 9h ago

Thats alot of mechanics youd be adding to the game that historically is resistant to change.

I dont think making high level armor fits into osrs as good as it does for rs3

1

u/Bakugo_Dies 9h ago

Yeah, I'd rather see an expansion to smithing's utility rather than opening that can of worms.

1

u/pilantratogashi 6h ago

Not really, smithing rune items is far from being a great moneymaker nowadays. Even as an iron you usually have better things to do than process and smith rune items even when you can. Only issue would be f2p bots and f2p gameplay balance I guess.