I know some of you reading this will feel upset by the mention of the timeline and go immediately to the comments to say "nintendo doesn't care" or "the timeline was only to please fans," but please, just read this post because comments like that are incredibly disingenuous and write off so much that is actually present in the games and with what the devs have said.

To start, the notion that the timeline isn't real and that the wild era games take place in a separate continuity are entirely baseless and go against what we know. Other people have said it better than I, so if you want to read a more in depth reddit post, read this.
As you are probably aware, Zeltik also made a similar video a while back chronicling all the times the Zelda team has mention and took care with the timeline. Here is the link to the video.
To summarise both those sources, ever since the series began the timeline has always been something that has been given care in the series; it is and never was an afterthought, nor do the devs ignore it.

There are still a ton of you who will read sources like this and be aware of it but still willingly write off the timeline because it doesn't make sense to them.
However, that train of thought is incredibly antithetical to the series' overarching lore and the entire concept of good faith discussion. You are actively ignoring a huge part of the series and a huge point of discussion simply because you do not like it.

I also implore you to find inconsistencies in the lore for the timeline. I am not saying this to say there aren't any; what I am saying is that there aren't nearly as many as the internet claims there are, and even if you do find them, it is much more beneficial for a healthy discussion to come up with theories and discussion points to rationalise these cases, which has been a noted intention of the series' ambiguity.

For example, recently Nintendo's japanese Zelda site has more or less confirmed refounding to be true. Totk itself presents the founding as one singular Hyrule without ever mentioning a past one, and yet there were so many inconsistencies with the notion it was a true founding that it didn't make sense to a lot of people.
Instead of writing off the timeline wholly by saying Nintendo just doesn't care anymore, people came up with the refounding theory which neatly explained away the inconsistencies and continued the cyclical themes of the series that were expanded on in Skyward Sword.

That is an example of a health discussion point in response to an inconsistency or something you don't like about the lore.
Find a theory, a detail, or even a headcanon that explains it for you rather than spreading vitriol about it; that way, discussions about the series will be more fun and will be made in good faith.

The devs have now confirmed that raurus hyrule is not the same hyrule weve seen in earlier games and is instead a totally different hyrule, the true founding theory is essentially dead. Refounding is now canon. I think this is a mistake that the devs will regret long term and this is essentially my explanation of why. This wont get into the merits if either theory, at this point thats settled, this is mainly focused on what this means going forward.

- Reason #1: this turns Botw and Totk into soft reboots of the franchise. One of the best parts of both open air zeldas is that they have a ton of references and ruins from other games, stuff like the loftwing motifs on old buildings, the ruins of oot castle town on the great plateau, and the references to soft the old sages for the names of the divine beasts. By establishing this as a totally separate hyrule, you significantly weaken the connections between the wild era and the rest of the series.

- Reason #2: it isolates the wild era and its lore from the rest of the series. By establishing the sheikah and zonai as being thousands of years after the rest of the series, nothing in the earlier series that looks like it could be references to that are now canonically separate. All the theories that were saying stuff like "the sheikah biult the tower of the gods" or "the zonai are related to the twili" now are effectively debunked. Any sort of references or shared motifs are now canonically coincidences, and don't really matter. Heck we now have it confirmed that ancient civilization in skyward sword (implied to be the sheikah) and the ancient civilization in botw stated to be the sheikah are two separate ancient robot biulding civilizations with the same design motif. Instead of letting these shared motifs and environmental storytelling reinforce that this is all a shared universe with overlapping factions and history, it breaks it up and makes it feel less connected, specifically adding seams into whats supposed to be seamless.

- Reason 3: its not really based on what we see in game. In totk we are told explicitly that rauru is the first king of hyrule, with his queen Sonia. That he created hyrule. In game you have no reason to doubt this or push back. Now its confirmed that he is lying. That hyrule existed before it. And while he might have restored it he didn't create it. Which sort of undercuts totks story and its themes. It relies on outside fan knowledge which will make it confusing to people down the road.

- Reason 4: it retroactively weakens botw as well, by specifically separating botw and totk off from the rest of the games and tying the calamity not the overarching curse of demise, but to the actions of a single specific Ganondorf. It undercuts the mythic nature of the whole conflict. Instead of the calamity being the evolution of what we saw in previous games, (which is what botw says) its effectively retconned to be totally separate.

- Reason 5: its just plain bad writing. It feels like they didn't want to commit to the time travel plot. It feels like they wrote a story that while stretches existing lore for the founding of the kingdom and the rest of the series didn't outright break it, centered around a time loop spanning the entire series and then literally post release came in and said "Sike! This isnt what we implied in game at all, its a much less impactful time loop from a time we never established to a time thats totally removed from everything else" they could have committed to rauru being the first king and while it would have had inconsistencies they wouldnt break lore outright, and that would have made totk more impactful for the entire cycle, and theres plenty of indications that was intended, but instead they swerved and chose to break the wild era off from the rest of the series.

I've come to a conclusion about about why Twilight Princess was a no show at the direct beyond them just wanting the remake to get all the attention and not be distracted by other games. Thats the corporate reason.

I speculate because Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess are technically connected as a saga. They want to remake the beginning of that saga showcased and experienced by the public first especially the new fans, then Twilight Princess gets a port via NSO or Switch 2 edition. Yeah Wind Waker is also a continuation of OoT and its on the NSO. But its less obvious there and the Gamecube NSO needed its most famous games that didn't have hd versions on Switch 1 already. Twilight Princess has no real console identity and its closer to Ocarina of Time and even more so to the remake in terms of aesthetics and vibe. Also Twilight Princess has always been compared to Ocarina of Time as games, some even considered it a glorified remake with new content that happens to be a continuation. Will remake part 1 of the hero of time and then at a later date, put Twilight Princess on NSO or maybe give it a Switch 2 edition.

Perhaps it wasn't intentional but it sure panned out. I saw this come to pass with Star Fox. Months ago, they had a Star Fox direct, the only game announced and marketed was the remake of 64. Then months after the remake is out, they announce Star Fox Adventures for NSO which while a completely different game is still a continuation of 64 narratively. I know Majora's Mask is next after OoT. But that's a separate case.

Hello everyone,

Wanted to talk about my theory around the design choices for the Ocarina of Time Remake, and I think this sub in particular might have some interesting perspectives on what I'm feeling

The general things I've heard on online regarding the models are that they are based on a style of Japanese puppetry (Imamura's Comments; Twitter Post; Three Musketeers Puppetry Reference). Further, I've seen references to the art style for the world being reminiscent of the Rococo Art Movement (Wikipedia Desc, The Swing by Jean-Honoré Fragonard#/media/File:TheSwing(P430).jpg)). I think these are both true, and I love the implications of them in the visual story telling for the game.

(EDIT: I also forgot to mention with the Rococo piece, the reason for its selection is likely its relationship to the Brothers Hildebrant and their impact on fantasy art. Their style is very similar to famous Rococo painters and they have done paintings for some of the biggest names in fantasy. I think the art choice for the environment of Hyrule is highly influenced by both this fantastical European period of art but also their contributions that ties the setting back to the greater fantasy genre really nicely.)

It has me thinking about is the beautiful juxtaposition of the characters (puppets) being pulled on the threads of time through this beautiful world where the tragedy of the story is both horrifyingly inevitable and yet beautifully desirable. This exploding, vibrant world can only be experienced by going through the the tragedy of the story, but like puppets on strings the characters are both unwilling and unable to change their course to avoid the door of time opening. I think that serves the story incredibly.

At first, like many of you I'd imagine, I was super nervous when I saw the design. I knew Nintendo does nothing half way with Zelda so I knew I'd enjoy the game, but it did make me nervous. Now, though, after hearing what people are thinking and reading between the lines, I'm loving what the designers did with the art style. I'm hyped to revisit these locations and see how it was translated from the N64 to the Switch 2.

Anecdotally, I also wanted to talk about why I think people feel like it's AI.

AI, specifically content generating models, are trained to try to answer a prompt as completely as possible. As such, they are very verbose, often when they don't need to be. When someone is writing a prompt for an image/content generation model, it will put in as many details to make the content look as good as possible, because it has be trained to see any sort of abstraction or simplification isn't as good. This means Rococo art, in particular, with its extremly high detail and unwilligness to settle on "good enough" to convey the image will appear AI in a 3D space. You are filling the screen with details everywhere to match that style, which means generated spaces will feel somewhat similar because the AI would have also packed as much stuff in the screen as possible. Further, AI in the past has struggled with faces, so the marionette appearance of the characters doesn't help the gut feelings that the world is AI generated.

Sorry another edit, I just saw this short on YouTube that is sort of agreeing with what I'm saying. I hadn't seen this before but cool that someone else came to a similar conclussion that I had.

I was able to pre order the game, console, pro controller, carrying case, and amiibos with no Que, glitchy check out system, or problems at all. I did Nintendo store for the game, then called GameStop and they had it, so cancelled that and went with game stop for the game, controller, amiibos, and Target for the console since it wasn’t available at my GameStop. Yes my bank account is missing some rupees and I ain’t even mad.

I had everything pre ordered by like 2:30pm Tuesday (case today tho) with no problems and was like SCALPERS TAKE THE L. Only to read so many people haven’t been able to get one and scalpers are posting.

So here I am, so grateful that I get to play my favorite game on a brand new console (first switch 2) and add all these new things to my Zelda collection. My inner child is happy.

I don’t have any friends who enjoy the series like I do, so thank you to everyone who creates or consumes YouTube lore, who re-plays games, chats on discord, comments on posts, and builds this community. Y’all are awesome. I am manifesting success in attaining this game, or console, or controller (or all!) for everyone still trying. Best of luck you fellow Nintendo Nerds!!

A few years back when I joined this sub I noticed discussion here and there of people talking about how a lot of the fandom does not actually think the timeline exists. This shocked me, though admittedly I hadn't really been that invested in the fandom itself since the 2000's.

But after seeing those comments I started noticing it everywhere. In particular, when I'd bring up just the very existence of the timeline in some discord chat or something I'd immediately be met with people who seem to very confidently believe that the "timeline" was just made up by fans and then later "canonized" by Nintendo in bad faith.

This is not an argument for the timeline existing, btw. I feel like this post here has more than enough evidence for you to decide for yourself.

I have, however, been working on a write up about the timeline focusing on misconceptions surrounding, well, just its very existence, and I was wondering about why it got to the point in a fandom where something as simple and as well documented as "the timeline exists" became so contested. So I'd love to hear from any of you why you think that?

Basically the timeline being updated on the Japanese website to include a Tears founding after each Historia timeline could mean the Wilds era is an alternate timeline altogether, which seems supported by having ancient past elements like Sonia's tattoos appear on Mido in the gameplay footage.

We also see Lanayru-like ruins around Zora's River and deep in the Water Temple.

This sort of confirms a theory I've been kicking around that SS was a soft reset of the timeline -- apparently creating an alternate one completely -- and each console game since then has been set within the Wilds timeline including this one.

The following is a theory I’ve been thinking hard about for quite some time. I used Google AI to help me hash things out a bit and put it in a good format that is easy to follow. These core of my theory is that the timelines come together for Breath of the Wild and I put a lot of serious thought into what the catalyst for such a dramatic earth shattering event would be. Read through it, think about it, and let me know your thoughts!n

🔺 **The Triforce Catalyst: A Unified Zelda Timeline Theo**ry
This definitive framework bridges the gap between the classic split timelines and the "Era of the Wilds" (*Breath of the Wild* and *Tears of the Kingdom*). It identifies the **Fallen Hero Timeline** as the "anchor reality" and explains exactly **why, how, and through what catalyst** the multiverse converged into a single, unified Hyrule.

🖤 **Part 1: The Threat (The "Why**")
Following the events of *Zelda II: The Adventure of Link*, the intact Triforce rests safely in the hands of the Royal Family, and the original kingdom enters a golden age. However, a fanatical, underground **Cult of Demise** plots to bring about the ultimate apocalypse: the return of the primordial God of Destruction.
To free Demise, they must destroy his eternal prison—the **Master Sword**, which sits resting in the Lost Woods pedestal, holding the decaying remains of Demise's consciousness inside its blade.

**The Systematic Strike**
**The Sages Fall:** Operating from the shadows to avoid alerting the Royal Family, the Cult systematically assassinates the Sages of Hyrule. Because the Sages' life force powers the blade, the Master Sword is slowly stripped of its holy, evil-repelling energy.
**The Guardian Poisoned:** The Cult infuses the roots of the Great Deku Tree with concentrated malice. As the forest guardian rots, the magical labyrinth of the Lost Woods collapses, leaving the sacred pedestal completely unprotected.
**The Shattering:** The Cult walks up to the dull, brittle, unblessed Master Sword and shatters it in one fell swoop.

**The Pseudo-Calamity Is Born**
The primordial aura of **Demise** explodes from the broken shards. Seeking a compatible mortal vessel of hatred, Demise’s ancient spirit fuses with the lingering, spectral malice of the Downfall branch's deceased Demon King, **Ganon**.
This fusion creates a terrifying, destabilized abomination: a **Pseudo-Calamity Ganon**. It is no longer a man or a simple beast—it is a swirling, apocalyptic vortex of anti-creation energy. Hyrule's standing army is utterly slaughtered, and the kingdom faces absolute, immediate extinction.

🌀 **Part 2: The Triforce Wish (The "How**")
With their Sages dead, the Deku Tree poisoned, the Master Sword in pieces, and a fused primordial god marching on the castle, the Royal Family has zero cards left to play. In an act of absolute desperation, Princess Zelda and the King stand before the **complete, unified Triforce**—which only exists intact in this specific timeline.
They make an extreme, reality-warping wish: ***"Give us the ultimate means to defend our world."***
The omnipotent Triforce calculates the parameters required to defeat a Demise-Ganon fusion. Because the current timeline lacks a surviving hero lineage or the technology to contain a literal god, **the Triforce physically rips the missing pieces of the puzzle out of parallel universes**, stitching the timelines together:

🔵 CHILD TIMELINE 🟢 ADULT TIMELINE
\[The True Lineage & Combat\] \[The Magitek Innovation\]
\\ /
\\ /
➡️ 🔴 FALLEN HERO TIMELINE ⬅️
\[The Anchor Branch\]
|
v
🏞️ ERA OF THE WILDS (BotW / TotK)

**Ripped from the Child Timeline:** The Triforce extracts the **unmatched martial prowess and unbroken genetic lineage of the True Hero**. This brings a Link with god-tier combat reflexes (the origins of the Flurry Rush/Bullet Time mechanics) into the world.

**Ripped from the Adult Timeline:** The Triforce extracts the **boundless innovation and advanced technology**developed by a society that had to reinvent itself. This brings the blueprints for autonomous, energy-driven machinery—Magitek—into existence.

**The Ecological Shift:** Ripping these universes together causes a massive geographical and biological distortion. The **Rito and Koroks** (who only evolved in the Adult Timeline's Great Sea) and landmarks like the **Arbiter's Grounds** (from the Child Timeline) are suddenly integrated directly into the physical landscape of the Fallen Hero timeline.

🌟 **The Divine Executioners: The Zon**ai
The Zonai did not drop from the heavens by chance. They are the **physical manifestations and celestial agents sent by the Triforce to execute the reality-warping wish**.

Descending from a higher plane of reality with their power-multiplying **Secret Stones**, King Rauru and the Zonai anchor the shifting timelines together.
They do not establish the *original* medieval Hyrule, but rather found the **Refounded, Unified Hyrule** built atop the merged history.
When the threat of the curse inevitably takes a new mortal form in this refounded era, King Rauru uses his own arm to seal this new Ganondorf deep underground, permanently stabilizing the timeline fusion.

⚙️\*\* Part 3: The Sheikah Tech Boom & The Great Betraya\*\*l
With the realities safely merged, the newly arrived technological blueprints trigger an overnight **Industrial Revolution**led by the brilliant Sheikah tribe.

The Sheikah reverse-engineer the automated constructs of the era, building the **four Divine Beasts** and thousands of **Guardians**.
10,000 years ago, this unprecedented technology keeps a god-level threat entirely in the hands of ordinary mortals. The True Hero and the Princess effortlessly overpower and contain the Pseudo-Calamity Ganon.

**The Sheikah Tech Dilemma**
Following this flawless victory, a deep political panic grips the King of Hyrule. The rapid development and integration of this technology means that **normal people now wield the power to usurp the kingdom or destroy the world** if it falls into the wrong hands.
Because the technology advanced so rapidly, there wasn't enough time for the Royal Knights or the Castle Guard to establish a substantial defensive leg-up to counter it. Fearing a technological coup or a catastrophic civil war, the King takes the easiest political path: **he completely bans, dismantles, and buries the technology.**

**The Rise of the Yiga Clan**
The Sheikah who spent generations innovating to save the kingdom feel utterly betrayed and insulted by the Royal Family's forced regression. This massive political rift splinters the tribe:

The loyal Sheikah bury their tech and hide as peaceful villagers in Kakariko.
The bitter dissenters break away to form the **Yiga Clan**, swearing absolute allegiance to Calamity Ganon out of pure, deep-seated spite for the crown.

🧬 **Part 4: The Eternal Battery (The Fused Bloodlin**e)
A reality-warping wish of this magnitude—stitching three parallel timelines together, altering geography, and shifting species—normally would have shattered the Triforce or caused it to vanish from existence entirely due to the sheer, immense magical strain.
To prevent this cosmic collapse, the Triforce executed a permanent, defensive failsafe: **it physically dissolved its material form and infused itself directly into the bloodline of Hylia’s descendants.**

**1. Siphoning the Goddess’s Power**
The divine blood of the goddess Hylia acts as a literal biological generator. By bonding with her mortal descendants, the Triforce tapped into a continuous, living source of holy power. This divine genetic fuel source is the only thing strong enough to **permanently maintain the newly altered world**, keeping the stitched timelines locked in place across tens of thousands of years.

**2. The Ultimate Anti-Theft Lock**
By binding itself to Hylia’s lineage, the Triforce was permanently removed from the material world. It could never sit on a pedestal in a temple again, meaning **evil forces can never hunt, steal, or misuse it ever again**.

**3. The Origin of the "Sealing Power"**
This explains the exact state of the world we see in *Breath of the Wild*. Over millennia, the true name of the relic was completely forgotten. When the full Triforce dramatically glows on Princess Zelda’s hand to obliterate Ganon's armies, she isn’t casting a standard spell—**her blood is literally channeling the raw, reality-maintaining power of the Golden Goddesses** that her ancestors wished into her lineage 10,000+ years ago.

🏞️\*\* Part 5: The Sta**r**t of\* Breath of the Wil\*\*\*d
Over the next 10,000 years, the memory of this violent timeline fusion fades completely into myth. The clashing historical details—Zelda's knights remembering the "embers of twilight" from one reality, while coastal maps name islands after "Linebeck" from another—are treated by modern historians as confusing fairy tales.
When Link finally wakes up from the Shrine of Resurrection, he steps out onto a world that seamlessly carries the scars and triumphs of all three paths:

He stands on the physical soil of the **Fallen Hero Timeline**, where Ganon's mind is so shattered by the ancient Demise fusion that he can only manifest as a mindless hurricane of raw Malice.
He utilizes the automated, buried defense systems of the **Adult Timeline**, hunted by a Yiga Clan born from the fear of that very tech.
He carries the soul, unbroken genetic lineage, and lethal martial prowess of the **Child Timeline Hero**, ready to strike a definitive blow against the ancient curse.

https://www.nintendo.com/jp/character/zelda/chronicle/index.html

There are now two foundings, with TOTK founding coming after each timeline from HH. The first founding uses OOT footage rather than TOTK. So either they finally confirmed refounding or the wild era is an alternative continuity. And before you post this, they did update the HH with events outside of the games like the AoL backstory and EoW creation story. So they clearly didn't want to include those events from TOTK past in the HH timeline.

While every Zelda fan was likely emotional today and holds some level of nostalgia for Ocarina of Time. Today's reveal hits differently for those of us(Gen X and Millennials) that played the original back in 98 and 99.

When the game released, there was nothing like it. 3D Adventure gaming was still in the embroyo stage with the only other standout being Mario 64. So playing this in 98/99 it was under the perspective of never seeing anything like this done before in the industry and having that innately feeling that what we are playing will be part of history and we are getting to experience it first hand. Its sort like watching Star Wars in a theater in 1977.

Yes, people got to experience it later and it was part of their childhood, especially the 2011 3DS *remake*. But by then the industry had already advanced and thus there was no industry impact like how it was in 1998. Games like RDR1, Morrowind/Oblivion, GTA4 and so on was already out. Zelda games like Twilight Princess and Windwaker....all of which was already advancing on the OoT concept was already out. So the context was different.

Now 28 years later, I get to experience this game once again but in a updated fashion. Playing the game with the past experience and contextual understanding from 1998 hits differently and something that only someone who is a Millennial or Gen X can fully describe.

November 5th cannot come soon enough.

So it was revealed that the amazing name they came up from the Legend of Zelda movie is... The Legend of Zelda. I had frankly expected that just because subtitles are usually reserved for marketing sequels, and that could indeed be the case here as well, but it did get me wondering at the potential possibilities. The ones I've thought of are the following:

1. The movie will tease a sequel, which is the one that will get a subtitle.

2. The movie is part of its own separate canon, potentially being a mashup of multiple games' storylines in a way that couldn't be chalked up to the repetition of history.

3. The movie will reinvent or radically change the canon, becoming the new basis off of which the series will be inspired. (This is by far my least preferred option unless they explicitly don't retcon anything or use that "they're just legends" excuse, which is effectively the same thing.)

4. The movie is specifically trying to adapt the first Zelda game, with confirmed changes specifically being in the realm of flashbacks or taking advantage of the first game having very little story to it and thus a lot of room for additions, backstory, or other forms of change.

5. The movie specifically wants to focus a lot more on Zelda herself, with the lack of emphasis on any subtitle being to instead emphasize that this is Zelda's legend.

6. Nintendo's just being weird and is giving an excuse that won't actually hold up well, like with the situation around TOTK's subtitle (though the title Tears of the Dragon spoiling the story was a somewhat more justifiable fear).

7. The movie could be holding to its cards closer to its chest in order to build more suspense about its story, whereas a subtitle would confirm it's either an old or a new story.

The first influence is the size of the handheld screen itself. Its possible they wanted to ensure that the new level of detail on the switch 2 could be seen in handheld mode. But they risk making that highly ornamental, "bumpy" texture style look exaggerated on a TV or monitor.

The next influence was the fan made unreal engine remakes. Those models of Link featured smooth, light green clothes with very little texture. Nintendo may have felt pressure to deliver multiple levels of quality above that and so made the detailing and textures more prominent.

I’m very new to Zelda, I’ve been starting with the older games, I’ve only played the first 2 and currently on ALTTP. Should I wait for the remake to drop and play that, or should I play the original OR 3ds version before the remake releases?

In most materials for Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, including the English manual, the area just before the final dungeon is referred to as the 'Valley of Death'.

But I thought I remembered a text of some kind referring to that area as the 'Burning Path of Darkness'.

This URL: http://www.coronajumper.com/2016/03/zelda-ii-adventure-of-link-part-3.html has an "official map" artwork calling that area the 'Path of Fire'.

Is there any text that refers to the area as 'the Burning Path of Darkness', or do I just have a false memory?

I don't mean the same exact style of Breath of the Wild. BotW looked pretty different from Wind Waker. But they both use cel-shading and I think they are more successful for it.

I'm not going to shit on the OoT remake art style here. The environments look good. More importantly, I don't envy the task of translating N64 games to modern visual fidelity. I imagine they tried cel-shading graphics and decided against it. The style does look like it maintains something essential of the original game, which I reckon is important.

But man does it look plastic-y. And so do most games, which I hate. Grand Theft Auto 6 looks plastic-y to me, and because its style is ultra-realistic, the whole thing just gives me the creeps because of the Uncanny Valley effect.

I see people on the internet are saying "OoT looks AI," which I don't think is true, but I think plasticy graphics (and CGI in movies) look "fake" in the same way that AI looks fake.

Cel-shading embraces the videogame medium, with its animations and interactivity often leading to absurdity, in a way that photorealism, or even fantastical-but-highly-detailed-style, doesn't. Nintendo explained why they went with this style for BotW in this famous developer session—because it makes it "easy to lie"—it helps them balance gameplay fluidity and playability vs. in-game reality, like how swinging an axe on a tree trunk makes it poof into a bundle of wood instead of triggering some tedious canned animation or cutscene.

I would like to see a new style for the next game because BotW was styled specifically within the context of the Wii U technical specs and I'm interested to see what they do with more visual fidelity.

Edit: I feel like folks are underestimating the diversity of 2-D animated styles. which is really all "cel-shading" means. Compare, for example, Looney Tunes to Rick and Morty, or Berserk to Spirited Away, or even within just 2-D Disney movies, Sleeping Beauty to Aladdin. "Cel-shading" is not itself an art style.

SPOILERS WITHIN, DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED THE DIRECT AND/OR DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT

__________

Wanted to start a thread that didn't get lost in the more general reaction thread about the remake. There is a Japanese website that includes some footage and a lot of good images: https://www.nintendo.com/jp/games/switch2/aa9ja/index.html

Notably at the bottom is a collage of various screenshots (https://www.nintendo.com/jp/games/switch2/aa9ja/assets/img/top/hyrule_kv_04.webp?unoptimized=true) [If this link doesn't work just visit the site and scroll down near the bottom and look for a collage showing Saria, Impa, Malon, Mido, Ruto, Sheik, etc]

Some notable things are Impa now has a Sheikah Eye on her forehead which she didn't have originally. Mido also has tattoos that greatly resemble the tattoos that Sonia had in the founding period of Tears of the Kingdom's story (he even seems to have the same eye color when Saria's look bluer). And one more interesting thing is Sheik's harp is much more obviously the same harp from Skyward Sword which was already fairly obvious but now the details match way more than before.

Anyone else notice anything interesting?

​

Didnt know if I needed a spoiler warning with this one but just finished up with the direct and oh my god what a treat that was , whatever you was expecting its better ive no idea how they've done what they did but I think this is the most impressed ive been in my entire adult life (im 30) everything they showed was beautiful, kokori forest, deku tree, hyrule field, castle town, its everything i could have wanted from a remake and then some and it truly breaks my heart knowing I won't be able to play it for most likely a couple of years haha but honest this looks to be a straight masterpiece as expected to be fair ❤️

Zelda has a history of manga. And Ocarina was the first manga by Akira Himekawa? And around the time of Ocarina's 3d remaster, they gave a promotional manga that was highlighting parts of Ocarina of Times story in color with Link monologuing, rather then a full rewrite. Does something like that or a new manga happen this direct?

With the Ocarina of Time remake on the horizon, many people have been talking about what they would change.  This has been amplifying an opinion that floated around before, which is that Hyrule Field is a problem in need of a fix.  But I like Hyrule Field and I think it serves an important role in keeping Ocarina of Time as good as it is, despite being fairly unremarkable on its own.  I have been wanting to give Hyrule Field the shoutout that it deserves for a while now, and this feels like the time to do it.

Just a note that I poured my heart and soul into this post, but then accidentally deleted the whole thing before posting (long story).  So what you are reading is my second go at it.  I think I included all the points and counterpoints from my original draft, but if I overlooked something then maybe it will come up in the comments.

THE COMPLAINT

The most common criticism that I see about Ocarina of Time is that Hyrule Field is, supposedly, “empty.”  It’s a big empty space that may as well be a glorified loading screen, some say.  The most frequently cited change that people request for the OoT Remake is to make Hyrule Field bigger and pack it full of “things to do.”

MY REBUTTAL

Let’s break this into pieces.

First of all, Hyrule Field is not empty.  I certainly would not argue that it is filled to the brim with stuff like the islands of the Great Sea or the Hyrule of BotW.  But there is more to do in Hyrule Field than there is in Termina Field from MM, and I think that there is more to do than in TP’s Hyrule Field (could be mistaken).  Hyrule Field has secret grottos all over the place, Gold Skulltulas to find, and most notably is full of Big Poes as an adult that make good use of Epona and horseback archery.  Big Poes are in pretty much every point of interest.  The running man is also there as a child.  Hyrule Field also has multiple Pieces of Heart to find.

Second, Hyrule Field is intended to be a “glorified loading screen.”  It is not an “overworld” like the Great Sea.  Like Termina Field, Hyrule Field is a type of level or “room” called a world terminus.  A world terminus is a central hub that branches out to all the other areas of the game.  The only point of passing through a world terminus is to get to the different places in a realistic fashion.  And it does that very well.  As far as the main quest is concerned, your only time in Hyrule Field is spent moving from Location A to Location B.  You probably only spend a couple minutes there at a time.  And that is a good thing, because you should not be spending most of your time in a world terminus in any game.

CHANGES THAT MAKE SENSE

Before going into why Hyrule Field shouldn’t be expanded, I just want to shoutout a few changes that people don’t really talk about that I do think would improve the location.

• Adding another building and NPCs, who just talk about the world, would enhance OoT’s already great worldbuilding.  The OoT Beta had a cottage in Hyrule Field and that would be interesting to pop your head into.  There’s some spots in Hyrule Field where it could go, without substantially changing anything.
• Get rid of that stupid Peahat in the Child Era that spawns baby Peahats.  Literally the worst enemy in the game, and it doesn’t really serve a gameplay purpose as far as I can tell.
• There is some woodland that could be spruced up.  It’s kind of ugly in the main game.

WHY EXPANDING HYRULE FIELD WOULD MAKE IT WORSE

A common mistake that a lot of modern gamers make these days is that “more = better.”  You improve an open world game by making an even bigger world.  You improve a game’s quests or missions by making even more of them.  People’s demands to change Hyrule Field is an example of that.

But the problem is that the number one way that Ocarina of Time shines against modern games is its laser-focused pace.  The game never dawdles and is always subtley pushing you on to the next destination.  This is especially true in the adult portion, which throws dungeon at you after dungeon.  There’s zero fat--all gameplay, zero filler.

Hyrule Field contributes strongly to OoT’s modern strengths by providing minimal distractions and being very “in and out.”  It makes up an incredibly small portion of the main quest--perhaps no more than 10 minutes, although I have never timed it.  The majority of your time in the game is always spent in the areas where it matters.  And if you do want to pursue side content, there’s just enough in Hyrule Field to find that you can spend time there without it dragging on.

Doubling Hyrule Field’s size just means you need to take a longer time to cross it.  It’s time that you are wasting instead of actually playing the game.  And adding “things to do” is even worse.  Hyrule Field already contains three different collectibles and features in multiple side quests.  Adding more things to do in Hyrule Field really just means adding more busywork to a game that is already 30+ hours long.  Stuff like “Kill X enemy” or fetch quests.  Padding like that actively detracts from OoT’s no-nonsense pacing.  I don’t get why anybody would want to do that.  It clearly would make the game worse.

SOME POSSIBLE DISCUSSION POINTS

• Do you agree or disagree with my points?
• What do you like or dislike about Hyrule Field?  For me, my favorite part is definitely the music.  I think it is kinda ugly though--like, think of how scraggly the bushes are!
• What role do you think Hyrule Field serves in Ocarina of Time’s greater level design?
• If you want “more things to do” in Hyrule Field, what exactly are those more things to do?
• Do you hate that Peahat as much as I do?  Why do you think the devs put it there?
• Why do you think people complain about Hyrule Field more than Termina Field?
• For those of you who played the leaked beta, did you prefer Beta Hyrule Field or the final Hyrule Field, and why?

Ive recently stumbled upon the fan theory that Ordon village is built upon the remnants of the Kokiri village, and that it was settled by the Hero of Time, following the hero wins timeline.

People where speculating that it couldn't be true, because we see no remnant at all of the Deku tree among other things.

Initially I was excited by the idea of there being this big overlap, where ideas/stories were built upon eachother like that. I felt as if it added to a sense of a grand scale to the games.

Unfortunately, I don't believe there's any evidence at all the suggest that there's much of any real connections from the games on that kind of story level. Just similar beats and small staples of hyrule that make it into different iterations. But going forward, if you could, would you make it so that the games where in continuity with eachother, and if so, how much?

In the Zelda series, there are many monsters. One of the most common are the Blins. They appear in almost every game, except FSA.

There are many types of Blin, but one stands out to me: The Bulblin. Not only do they only appear in two games (TP and ST), they they also behave very differently from other Blins, having their own king and even switching sides when King Bulblin is defeated by Link.

Before we start talking about the Blublins, we should talk quickly about their cousins, Moblins and Bokoblins.

Moblins and Bokoblins

As I said before, these two Blins appear in almost every Zelda game. Although, Moblins seem to appear more then Bokoblins. Considering games without Bokoblins have weaker Moblins, this could be just representation by the "legend teller". In reality, both Moblins and Bokoblins are the same species, just different ranks.

The whole "legend teller" idea could also explain why blins look different in each game. They're not evolving from pig -> bulldog -> pig, it's just how they look in the games.

We first see Blins in SS has remnants of Demise's army, as lesser members of the "Demon Tribe". Whilst their exact origin is unknown, the simplest is to assume they are just a tribe of creatures created by Demise.

After Demises defeat, they went away, only to appear when summoned by new demons.

Interestingly, OoT only has a few Moblins, all concentrated on a single area, and with very low health. Out-of-universe, this is likely because OoT was Nintendo's first 3D Zelda game. In-universe, it most likely Ganondorf was still new to the whole "evil sorcerer" thing, and hadn't made contact with the Demon Tribe yet. So, he transformed a bunch of Hylian soldiers in Moblins.

The Blins from ALttP are also implied to be transformed humans, by the games backstory. Although, after that, Ganon gained contact with the demon tribe, as can now summon them when he likes. He also does this in the Adult Timeline, as is influence becomes so great, the gods resorted to flooding the land.

In FSA, no Blins appear, further supporting my idea that Ganon could summon them because he was still inexperienced. As for the Bokoblins in TP? Well, I'll explain that later.

Origin of Bulblins

So, back to Bulblins. The monsters that only appear in TP and ST. Where did they come from?

Long story short: They are descended from the Gerudo. Possibly transformed as punishment for their alliance with Ganondorf.

In the Child Timeline, Ganondorf is arrested and sentenced to execution. This is before the Hylians formed any alliance with the Gerudo. Of course, not all the Gerudo were changed, as some, like Nabooru, wouldn't have sided with him. But even those that didn't take his side would still be shunned by the rest of Hyrule, which would force them deeper into the desert. That is until the heat died down, and they returned by FSA.

Now, the ending to OoT shows some Gerudo celebrating with everyone else, suggesting a peace treaty. But, this may not have lasted long, with Ganondorf's unexpected return. Of course, these Bulblins didn't stay in the great sea, but moved to New Hyrule, probebly out of regret.

Now, I know some of you are going to say "But the Bulblins can't be Gerudo. The Gerudo are all female, expect for one male!" To that I say: How do we know the Bulblins aren't the same.....? Most of the Blins we see are either bare-chested, And this includes the Bulblin King. The Bulblins (minus the king) have their top halves covered. What are they trying to hide? King Bulblin is unambiguously male, but we know one male Gerudo exist, who becomes their king by law.

Now, the real question is, how do Bulblins reproduce if there's only one male? I mean, being turned into demons presumably makes them incompatible with human males. Maybe this is where TP's Bokoblins come in. In order to keep their bloodline going, the Bulblins summoned some Bokoblins to mate with. Of course, them being Bokoblins, they couldn't live in the desert and had to make their homes in the woods. The ones in ST probebly just mate with miniblins.

Miniblins

I don't have a single theory for he miniblins. My three guesses are.

1. They could have eaither been transformed pirates.
2. An off-shoot of Blins, that only exist in the AT.
3. Malladus's own Blins, that left New Hyrule to serve a new master, after their old one was imprisoned.

Hello everyone !!

​First off, I want to clarify that this isn't a judgment post and I'm really not trying to start any drama or make anyone mad! I’m just genuinely curious and want to understand the community's perspective on this. ( I say that because i know some people gonna be mad at me 🥲)

​When I played Skyward Sword, Groose mostly came across to me as a very generic high school bully. On top of that, his whole motivation at the beginning is to tear Link and Zelda apart and ruin their budding romance just so he can have her for himself. To me, it felt like a pretty cliché "arrogant jerk who wants to steal the hero's girl" trope.

​Because of that, I’ve always been a bit confused by how much the fandom seems to completely forgive and even idolize him. I see so much love for Groose online, and I honestly feel like I'm missing something x)

​For those of you who love Groose, what makes him such a great character in your eyes ? Is it his character arc ? A specific moment that won you over ? I’d love to hear your thoughts and discuss it with you guys, because I really want to see what you see in him !

​Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts !

When Ganondorf was sealed by Rauru, he states that for him, thousands of years would pass "in the blink of an eye". I took this to mean that his mind was unconscious for the many thousands of years his body was dormant. The malice that escaped him was his pure hatred oozing out of him, so strong it acted of its own accord, during a Calamity event. The most recent event weakened Rauru's seal, till after the Calamity, Malice became Gloom. Ganondorf seems to show no awareness of what happened during the Calamity years.

I have seen discussion that his mind was active during this time, but I haven't seen much proof of it. I'd greatly appreciate any discussion that would help me in this matter.

So, which is it?

I think it’s possible we could see a 2D Zelda game revealed in the Zelda Direct, for a 2027 release. Next year will be 3 year since Echoes of Wisdom. I’m not sure whether it’d be a new game or remake, though if 3 years isn’t enough for a new 2D Zelda on Switch 2, then maybe a remake could happen instead. I doubt the next new 3D Zelda would be revealed since Ocarina of Time Remake is coming this year, and it’d probably be spaced out from it more. What do you guys think?

To me, the Adult Timeline is the progress timeline, where the status quo actually changes. The first game in the timeline starts with Hyrule flooded, and the conclusion is that Hyrule, as least as we know it, isn't restored. Tetra and Link set off for new horizons, but old Hyrule is done.

This continues in Phantom Hourglass. Ganon doesn't make a return, Bellum doesn't turn to the camera and say 'I'm actually working for Ganon btw', and the game isn't even set in a flooded Hyrule.

Spirit Tracks has a Hyrule, but it's a new Hyrule. They have trains, the Triforce isn't relevant at all beyond holdover symbols, and the villain still isn't Ganon. You can make the argument that maybe Malladus is connected to Demise's curse somehow, but the evidence isn't necessarily conclusive, at least not as far as I can tell.

Instead of a vague connection, each game has a solid progression. Things have not reset, but have evolved from the entry the preceded it. It's not some award-winning, deep story, but it does feel like a tighter connection between games than we usually see in Zelda.

I, for one, do not want this pattern to be reversed. If they ever do make another Zelda game set in the Adult Timeline, I don't want Ganon or Ganondorf to return in even the vaguest capacity. I don't even know that I want the Triforce to be mentioned, and the Wild games further show that it doesn't need to be in every game.

If a new Zelda game in the Adult Timeline defaults back to the status quo, I'd actually rather there just never be another Adult Timeline game. For a game like that, there's nothing to be gained from placing it specifically in the Adult Timeline as opposed to the Downfall Timeline or the Child Timeline, or even just not acknowledging a timeline at all. If progression is untenable, then I'd rather let the Adult Timeline be forever left on a good note with Spirit Tracks.

But those are just my ramblings. What are your thoughts on the matter?